I know that people just fawn over the waifus in this game but I really like the persona/character building aspect.
Does anyone have any idea how element damage boosting accessories interact with personas that have element boost/amp passives?
I am aware that the accessories that give the exact same boost as the boost passive or the amp passive do not stack with the passive itself but I’ve also heard that accessories that do not increase the value by the same amount as the passives do stack with them.
So just for examples sake to make it easier to understand:
>persona has the following skills
>Fire Boost
>Fire Amp
>Ragnarok
>these are the accessories I can equip:
>fire vow (10% boost)
>flame vow (20% boost)
>Blaze vow (30% boost)
>Inferno vow (40% boost)
>Kagutsuchi vow (50% boost)
If I go by the stuff I’ve read Kagutsuchi vow should not stack with fire amp but any of the other vows should not also stack with fire amp but also fire boost as well. Has anyone ever tested this?
Move+Move stacks.
Move+Item stacks.
Move+Move+item does not stack.
So theoretically:
>fire amp + Kagutsuchi Vow
Is better than
>fire boost + fire amp
Meaning its better to just replace fire boost with fire amp the moment you get the 30% vows?
If max elemental damage is all you care about, yes.I ran SP regen accessories for convenience in most fights.
Kagutsuchi Vow and Fire Amp won't stack because they both increase damage by 50%. You'd have to use Inferno Vow and Fire Amp for the highest increase. Boosts, amps, and vows all stack multiplicatively (so Fire Amp + Inferno Vow means you deal 210% fire damage instead of 190%), but anything over 200% is rounded down to 200% (so Fire Amp + Inferno Vow means you deal 200% fire damage instead of 210%).
Wouldnt inferno or blaze vow count as fire boost even if fire boost is 25%? Thats basically what I’m unclear about. If you can get all three to stack then it makes sense to keep fire boost to maximize the damage but at the same time it might not be worth it outside of maximizing it the moment you get fire amp.
Nevermind, I'm wrong, I had it confused with the Persona 5 damage formula for stacking damage. In Persona 4, they do stack additively, and Kagutsuchi Vow stacks with Fire Amp, for a total of +100%. Sorry about that.
>Wouldnt inferno or blaze vow count as fire boost even if fire boost is 25%?
The game takes two sources of % elemental boosting, prioritizing skills first even if your accessory is better than boost. You can have Fire Boost and any of the fire vows and they stack. You can have Fire Amp and any of the fire vows and they stack, but if you have Fire Boost and Fire Amp in your skillset, equipping any of the fire vows won't do anything.
Sorry again for the confusion.
I've been thinking about it all day at work, and decided to test it finally. Here are my findings.
The control was my Izanagi with the following stats:
Level 86
99 ST
93 MA
79 EN
85 AG
77 LU
In every single case, there are two common things: My Izanagi has Elec Amp and Maziodyne as his skillset, and six other irrelevant skills that I never used in this test except for the very end. In case you're curious, the six irrelevant skills are Brave Blade, Apt Pupil, Megidolaon, Cool Breeze, Blade of Fury, and Null Wind.
I went to the first floor of Yukiko's castle and decided to test 20 battles of each the following:
>Wearing the 50% increased elec damage accessory
>Wearing the 40% increased elec damage accessory
>Wearing the 30% increased elec damage accessory
>Wearing the 20% increased elec damage accessory
>Wearing the 10% increased elec damage accessory
>Wearing an accessory that gave nothing
>Wearing an accessory that gave nothing but replacing Izanagi's Megidolaon with Elec Boost
>Wearing the 10% increased elec damage accessory but replacing Izanagi's Megidolaon with Elec Boost. Also repeated for 20% and 30%, then the experiment was dropped. I'll explain why.
There was no meaningful difference when wearing the 50%, 40% or 30% bonus elec damage accessories with Elec Amp. They all hovered around 1250 damage to the haberlies (elec weak enemy) and 900 damage to the pesces (elec neutral enemy).
With the 20% bonus elec damage accessory equipped, the damage dropped a bit. Averaged about 1180 to haberlies and 815 to pesces.
With the 10% bonus elec damage accessory equipped, the damage dropped noticeably. Averaged about 1100 to haberlies and 770 to pesces.
With just amp and no accessory, haberlie damage averaged ~1000, and pesce damage about ~680.
With no accessory and replacing Megidolaon with Elec Boost, average haberlie damage shot back up to the same as the 50% - 30% vows equipped; between 1200 - 1300, and pesce damage between 850 - 950.
1/2
2/2
The same damage ranges were found with Elec Boost and the 20% and 30% bonus damage accessories. I didn't bother with the 40% and 50% for that reason.
I get that 20 of each isn't the most reliable sample size, but it seemed to be enough to notice meaningful differences. My takeaway from this is that the elemental boost skills do in fact stack additively, and that 175% elemental damage seems to be the maximum damage bonus. If it were multiplicative, there shouldn't be any noticeable difference between the 30% and 20% bonus damage accessories with Elec Amp, but there was. By the same token, there should be a slight difference between the 30% and 40% bonus damage accessories with Elec Amp, but there wasn't, at least not in the 20 of each trials I did. Keep in mind, the damage formula for the game inherently has some randomness to it.
So what does this all mean? Well, as long as you have elemental boost + amp, it's the same as if you had element amp + any of the 30/40/50% damage bonus accessories equipped. Is it worth it to equip the accessory over the boosting skill? That's up to you. But it seems like as long as somebody can learn the Amp skill and you want to maximize damage, the 30%/40%/50% damage accessories are interchangeable.
A neat takeaway from this is that Naoto is potentially a better Ice magic user than Teddie if you build for it, thanks to her Frost Shot and Kuraokami Vow, and because Naoto learns Mind Charge. Timed properly, you can get two Mind Charged Bufudynes in a single attack increase. It requires a lot of setup, but it's interesting to think about. Or maybe it's not.
Thank you so much anon. This shit has been nagging at me for a while and I couldn’t find any detailed info online for it.
So essentially, if you use any accessory ranging from 30%-50% its the same as using boost/amp and the 200% cap is a lie.
This means that at least in my p4 party member builds its probably better to dump boost for amp on your party members since I can’t think of any accessory you’d actually want over any other utility skill, I could make yukiko with spirit drain this way which would be better than slapping an invigorate accessory on her.
Thanks again anon.
Sp regen till october is nice , and then you get shit like extra SP or SP discount.
I think theres better things you can use over invigorate or spell master once rise gets SP wave and not having to waste a slot on boost helps a lot of characters out inmensely. For example:
Yosuke:
Magarudyne
Wind amp
Brave Blade
Evade Elec
Youthful Wind
Filler
Filler
Filler can be any of these:
Garudyne, Wind Break, Tentarafoo/Confuse boost, Dekaja, Makara Break
Yukiko:
Fire Amp
Evade Ice
Salvation
Samarecarm
Mind Charge
Burning Petals
Filler
Filler
Filler can be any of these:
Agidyne, Fire Break, Mudoon, Mediarahan, Spirit Drain, Matarunda
Teddie:
Mabufudyne
Ice amp
Mediarahan
Samarecarm
Evade Elec
Matarukaja/Filler (kanji gets this)
Marakukaja
Filler
Filler can be any of these:
Amrita Shower, Kamui Miracle, bufudyne, Ice break
It honestly helps out teddie inmensely and gives yosuke a ton more options.
>samarecarm
>kamui miracle
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
whats the problem
Why would you respond to someone like that? Just ignore it, that thing would never be capable of contributing to the conversation
why would you waste a skill slot on something infinitely available from the shop? it's not like money is hard to earn.
Incase you can’t fricking read since it seems you can’t, the post also mentions matarukaja, bufudyne and ice break for teddie on too of all the other non mentioned options such as a physical move, dekunda, marakunda or evade physical. Samarecarm is also a full hp revive unlike revival bead and by your logic amrita shower should also be useless
>Samarecarm is also a full hp revive unlike revival bead
that's cool, but i wasn't talking about revival bead
and no, amrita shower isn't useless because there isn't an infinitely available item that has that exact effect. stocking up on all the single target status cleansing items doesn't count because they only effect one ally at a time, not the whole party
>status items don’t count because they just dont!!!
To be honest you’re missing the point anyway so not worth continuing to argue this with you.
no you are the one missing the point, i am saying there is no item that does the equivalent of amrita, but there is an infinitely available item that does the equivalent of samarecarm, so it's a wasted skill, made worse by the fact that having the skill on somebody means you have to wait for that person's turn to use it, but with the item, it's available to anybody, almost as a ninth skill.
nothingburger post. you either actively avoid golden hands when you see them, or you have not played persona 4 golden for any reasonable length of time, or maybe both, because money is by far one of the easiest resources to come by if you play normally.
You are absolutely missing the goddamn point you fricking idiot. You’re harping on about the efficiency of a skill after replying to a post that wasn’t even talking about that. Just shut the frick up.
so you can spend money on something else
>not having to waste a slot on boost helps out a lot of characters inmensely.
It doesn't, really. Similarly, if you have trouble finding the 30% - 50% vows, but you have the Evasion ring vows, you can safely get rid of the relevant Evade Element skill for that character, since those do not stack. In that case, keep the Element Boost, and get rid of Evasion. Both of those assumptions also assume you don't care about Ouryu Brace or Chakra Ring (which, admittedly, is a pretty bold assumption). +5 to stats isn't a small amount, even more if you're hardcore enough to grind for God's Loves.
I have a few issues with your skills here due to objective inefficiency:
There is no reason to ever keep Recarm or Samarecarm on anybody. It takes one trip to the store to replace this skill, and now it's not limited to two people.
Break skills are literally only useful in Marie's dungeon unless you have a hardon for a certain party member and refuse to change them out.
Kamui Miracle should not be considered as a viable skill at all unless you are going for a lolrun or something like a TAS where you can predetermine its outcome.
Sorry for offending your autism anon, but I wasn’t going for “skill efficiency” simply pointing out a lot of skills that seem worthwhile for characters that can essentially free up one of their slots. Kamui miracle isn’t worth keeping but it is a unique skill so I listed it. As far as accessories go, I disagree that stat boosts are worthwhile whatsoever after all my time playing persona games, any accessory that gives a useful passive > stat boosts but i’ll acknowledge about the evade accessories, I still think using vows is better tho simply because they come earlier, you’re pretty much set once you find a 30% vow. Lastly in my runs I always end up with a phys party so half sp accessory obligatorily goes into chie, i don’t care about its viability on anyone else given that its an accessory that you get at the end of the game and anything that you get at the end of the game shouldn’t be considered for anything other than a final build and a handful of boss fights since you are effectively playing most of the game without it.
>mediarahan is useless
No problem, it was bothering me too, and to be honest the results were a little surprising. Not sure if it's going to change the way I build my party members, but it's at least good to know. Happy to help.
autism
i repeat:
autism.
No, my documented research, experiments, and spreadsheets about the damage formula in a 12 year old game is the mark of a normal person.
Yes, it's obviously autism, Black person.
>a 12 year old game
16 year old, actually
/vrpg/ has always been a dyscalculia board
Golden was released in 2012
Play the Q games, they have more spells/passives/equipment and you customise all members of your party not just the protag.
came here to say this. PQ2>PQ1
Im kind of sad they didnt put psy and nuke in reloaded
Q2 is a really damn good game and best Persona by a landslide. I'm personally fine with 4 elements + light/dark instakills, don't really care for psy/nuke. I would rather have more physical damage types like in P3.
Who would they even give it to? I imagine Aigis would get nuke
Ken gets some psi skills in q2
I like these elements because nuke was in p1/2 and psy makes sense with the franchise legacy. I think technical criticism are a cool way to make ailments interact with action economy
>Im kind of sad they didnt put psy and nuke in reloaded
what? why? it wouldn't make any sense. your godawful opinion makes me not want to play pq2 now.
I came here to say that Odysseus's Journey>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Orpheus's Journey
I got to november/december and I'm surprised how atmospheric the game gets. I think a lot of people just remember September/October cringe stuff and forgot these moments
>when you go back home after nanako and dojima are in the hospital and the music changes
RIGHT IN THE FEELS
it's the spooky fog music for me. i kinda liked this moment better than in p3 with the last month. p3 last month felt a little sudden.
why is talking about this game fricking impossible outside Ganker (can't believe im saying this).
if I hear one more "naoto/yosuke/teddie/kanji" is problematic. im gonna fricking lose it.
I really dont get any of that tbh.
>naoto
So the most you can say is she's a girl who thinks she's a boy but eventually decides she isn't. She seems very comfortable with her decision afterwards. Is that not allowed? There are plenty of people IRL who think they might be trans, but eventually decide they aren't.
>yosuke
Yeah he's homophobic but he's like a 16 year old kid in 2011 lol, what do you expect? I know there was also the cut Yu x Yosuke romance route, which allows you to have a headcanon that "Yosuke is a repressed homosexual" if you want.
>teddie
What, cause he flirts with Nanako a bit? He's not even human, so I don't think he grasps the concept of age gaps being a problem.
>kanji
At no point in the game does he ever express interest in any guy other than Naoto, who turns out to be a girl. Whereas he does show interest in other girls, such as blushing really hard when Yukiko and Chie wear their bikinis. He might be bisexual, but definitely not gay.
it's on THAT website and they won't shut up about hurrdurr did yosuke just banter with kanji and insinuate that he was gonna rape them???????? GRRRR yosuke is BAD!!!! DAE THINK NAOTO IS TRANS? (also you got your interpretation wrong holy shit you're a fricking moron. she never thought she was a fricking boy you fricking dumbass)
>it's on THAT website
I do not know what "THAT" website is.
>hurrdurr did yosuke just banter with kanji and insinuate that he was gonna rape them
He did, but that's pretty standard fare for a teenage boy in 2011 as I said. Especially in Japan. In fact, it's probably still standard today, I don't think teenage boys ever stopped making homophobic jokes. It's only "problematic" if you don't like fiction reflecting reality.
>also you got your interpretation wrong holy shit you're a fricking moron. she never thought she was a fricking boy you fricking dumbass
She pretended to be a boy, and also, even after "coming out" as a girl she continues to dress like a boy (until the epilogue). In fact I'd go as far as to say her appearance is pretty much identical to several FTM trannies I've known IRL. But, ultimately, she decides she is female and she is comfortable being female. There's nothing wrong with that.
the frick are you on about moron
this man literally thinks naoto is trans. god fricking damn it I hate americans. it's okay north america is going to shit and will be a third world country soon.
>this man literally thinks naoto is trans.
That literally isn't what I said though. She's a woman, who thinks she is a woman. But she was clearly confused about her gender up until the point when she confronts her shadow. In modern terms, we'd probably call her a "detransitioner", but that wasn't really a thing in 2008 when the game released.
>god fricking damn it I hate americans.
I am not an American.
It appears he is only pretending to be moronic. I suppose the joke is on us.
stop replying to youself
>she's a girl who thinks she's a boy but eventually decides she isn't.
I really do not know why you are so mad.
Have you played the game?
have you? you esl moron?
It doesn't seem like your reading comprehension is very good. It might be a good idea for you to re-read the posts you're replying to before pressing the submit button.
Hello
Why the frick do we have so many persona 4 threads
>it's 2024
>people still don't understand naoto's gender thing to this day