Kek. None.
Both take the worst aspects of mmos, round based and1 real time combat and forge it into one spiked vibrating horsedildo of boredom penetrating your ass DEEP while playing.
Absolute fricking abominations cloaked as rpgs.
Nwn 2 combat is less shit.
NWN2
LESS
SHIT
I’ve tried to do this dozens of times and only succeeded once. PoE1 is such a slog and I always get bored halfway.
How come everyone thinks that?
PoE was unironically the first long CRPG I've ever finished and beaten completely. Where Baldurs Gate and Neverwinter, ToEE etc. failed, PoE succeeded.
How do you explain that if PoE is supposedly that boring and if that's the main critique? I thought BG1 was the most basic b***h standard cut out and outdated game I ever played. I didn't think the same thing about either Fallout when I played and finished them before playing PoE. I could name more examples, but this isn't just the same. You just have a different taste. Maybe you played the wrong class. That's what made me hate my experience in Icewind Dale and to a degree BG3.
I'm the second anon you quoted. I'm not really sure, I think it's highly subjective and varies from game to game, and sometimes just the mood from playthrough to playthrough. Over the years, re: the games you listed, BG1/2 I've beaten many times, Fallout 1/2 many times, NWN 1/2 I beat at least once, ToEE at least once, IWD1 at least once, and IWD2 I've bounced off quite a few times, I'm actually just now at the end of the game and about to complete it for the first time, after playing it on and off for 20 years. Sometimes you're just not into a game. vampire the Masquerade: Redemption, the first time I tried playing it, I nope'd out, and came back later and got into it and fell in love with it. DOS2, first time I tried playing it I couldn't stand it, ended up getting into it and liking it and playing it through several times (once all the way, once about 90% of the way, once about 50% of the way, I reckon, along with many false starts)
PoE I beat back in the day when it came out and I thought it was alright, I really only struggled to get through it on replays. I've finished it a second time since then, and imported that into PoE2 and finished that game the one and only time I tried playing it. But I've said "I should play PoE again, I have X Y Z idea for a cool new party" and then it's fun for a while while I'm still leveling up and scrabbling for items, but then I lose interest at some point about halfway. Always happens. Maybe I'll give it another go soon.
BG3 I was really excited for, played it and finished it, ended up hating it and think it's a bad game, for what that's worth. Thanks for listening to my blog
I feel like with each passing day my hatred of fallout nitwits is further justified, I may stop recommending that series altogether to people. Everyone who likes this series is an absolute moron and would have been better off not playing rpgs at all.
Fallout 1 is recommended to beginners because it is a hyper shallow moron game that is impossible to frick up. It is a 3/10 game at best, and even so it is several leagues above every other game in the series. Complexity has been traded for ease of use, and even so Wastleland 1 is far more quick and snappy, so changes are entirely McDonald's kiosk tier dumbing down in the name of accessibility. You can scroll through this catalogue and you will find every single fallout thread is of extremely low quality, with reddit memes, wojaks, and ecelebs being the central focus by far. Curse this moronic series and the people who put it on a pedestal, they are a cancer.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>pretending to be a local schizo to spout absolutely moronic opinions and completely ruin his reputation
Kinda based, anon. You manage to sound smart, while saying obviously idiotic things.
5 months ago
Anonymous
The cognitive dissonance in this post is so thick that it's almost palpable. I could almost reach out and grab it, then beat you to death with it.
I got close to finishing it but burned out after WM1 and the middle of Act 3. It definitely is better than the other games you mentioned, although I still honestly hate RTWP.
>How come everyone thinks that?
There's nothing about the game that's particularly captivating. The setting is extremely bland and devoid of soul (funnily enough) and mechanically the game is not very fun, it doesn't feel like a crpg it feels like a bootleg mmo. It also doesn't help that the character creation is very limited, and no I'm not talking about appearances (though that is an issue) but rather stats. Mechanically the stats don't change enough about how your character functions to warrant doing multiple playthroughs or experiment with different builds because there aren't enough differences. Might is both for physical power as well as casting and you'll be pumping that on most characters regardless of what you play. It doesn't help that the magic system is very bare bones and none of the spells are interesting, most of them are just damage dealing with little alternative effects.
>It also doesn't help that the character creation is very limited, and no I'm not talking about appearances (though that is an issue) but rather stats.
Playing PoE with a full custom party is an entirely different experience from with companions. I don't think making special snowflake characters is all that important in a party focused game, as most variables come from party composition and how characters mesh together and distribute gear amongst themselves. There is a plethora of gear that doesn't alter stats, and it's generally the best gear in the game. >It doesn't help that the magic system is very bare bones and none of the spells are interesting, most of them are just damage dealing with little alternative effects.
This is true, but it's also true for bg1 and 2, worse so actually. The way to open up bosses and protect yourself against debuffs is complex by comparison, even when held up against SCS.
PoE's combat system is very rigid. Most of its potential lies in how it meshes with the geometry of map design and in preparing for fights, but like 80% of the main questline is designed like they were afraid of gatekeeping people, and doesn't use this. The main game in general feels incredibly short and rushed.
>This is true, but it's also true for bg1 and 2, worse so actually.
Even BG1 and 2 have a better magic system than Pillars, and that's utterly sad. I legitimately do not understand how Pillars can be appealing to anyone at all, there is nothing remotely compelling about these games.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Even BG1 and 2 have a better magic system than Pillars
It objectively does not.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Pillars absolutely appeals to autistic crpg fans, but doesn't have soul. You have to be both autistic and soulless to truly appreciate the series.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>soul
Buzzword for people too stupid to say what they really mean.
5 months ago
Anonymous
A certain… je ne sais pas
5 months ago
Anonymous
Perchance?
5 months ago
Anonymous
Yet you know exactly what it means
5 months ago
Anonymous
It means "aethestically similar to goyslop i was programmed to enjoy by commercials when I was a 8 year old milennial"
5 months ago
Anonymous
Imagine watching commercials. Imagine watching TV
5 months ago
Anonymous
Either zoomer or moronic.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Nah. When I was 8, I was reading grown-up books and playing Mechwarrior 2, Command and Conquer, and The Dig. Literally, imagine watching TV and watching commercials. Lol
5 months ago
Anonymous
>reading grown-up books
what does this even mean
5 months ago
Anonymous
You have to be 18 to post here.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Answer the question. What "grown up books" were you reading as an 8 year old, because I'm getting the impression you stopped growing at 8, mentally.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>being lectured on intellectual maturity by someone who watches television
Whew lad. To answer your question, I remember reading Jurassic Park and The Hot Zone and they both scared the shit out of me.
>How do you explain that if PoE is supposedly that boring and if that's the main critique? I thought BG1 was the most basic b***h standard cut out and outdated game
You nailed it anon.
You were a homosexualy zoomer when PoE was released. It was your first proper fantasy RPG, so you enjoyed the setting.
BG1 was many people's first RPG, but it basically defined games like PoE so of course it's going to be derivative.
This is like a zoomer trying to watch Citizen Kane and not understanding why it's considered one of the best films ever when it's full of tropes and cheesy as frick.
>implying bg1 is the Citizen Kane of late 90s crpgs
Poor taste can be cured with a bullet to the back of the head
That would be F1, and you intentionally ignored that other anon actually
enjoyed it >BG1 was many people's first RPG
Exactly why it's remembered so fondly
It's not a bad game, in fact it's quite good, but it's way overrated
t. a boomer that replayed both poe1 and bg1 within the last 2 years and had more fun out of poe
Stay mad
>implying bg1 is the Citizen Kane of late 90s crpgs
Poor taste can be cured with a bullet to the back of the head
That would be F1, and you intentionally ignored that other anon actually
enjoyed it >BG1 was many people's first RPG
Exactly why it's remembered so fondly
It's not a bad game, in fact it's quite good, but it's way overrated
t. a boomer that replayed both poe1 and bg1 within the last 2 years and had more fun out of poe
Stay mad
Nothing is worse than aurora engine combat, so you can safely disregard that person's post and any posts they make in the future. Not much to think about there.
PoE2 has some of the best class design, system design and combat design out of any CRPG to date.
The problem with the PoE games stem from some strange decisions (like the second one with the boat) and sticking to some very bland companions (they should've dropped Aloth and Pallegina like rocks after the first game).
Pallegina is fine in the first game. It's in the second where she's just such a whiny drag. Eder is honestly blander and more boring than either of them.
Eder is inoffensive and the closest to the "bro" character the series has, which is why he gets a pass. But he's not great or interesting.
But PoE1&2 suffered from the same problem most modern CRPGs do, bland one not characters and not enough variety.
That is frankly one of BG2's strengths even today. The varied cast.
>That is frankly one of BG2's strengths even today. The varied cast
Is it?
70% of bg2 companions annoy the frick out of me ngl
Naturally I hate that companion quests are the most significant portion of side-questing
PoE 1
+ liked the toned down mood better
+ companions imo are more interesting and there are a lot of them
+ endless paths is a cool dungeon
- no multiclassing
PoE 2
+ much better production values, visuals are stunning, full VA
+ overall more though out and polished system
+ actually meaningful subclasses, multiclassing, and it's fricking great, you can come up with all sorts of crazy roleplay combos and make them actually work up to Veteran for sure;
+ turn based mode is an option, it breaks the system because it is fundamentally a real time system, but it's there if TB is an absolute must for you
+ you get to choose the class of joining companions (out of 2 pure and 1 multiclass option)
+ cool optional endgame content in form of very challenging encounters and ultra-bosses
+ imo DLCs are even better than the WM for poe1
- less companions, most are imo worse compared to total bros from 1 in both likeability and writing quality, also has sidekicks which are like companions lite (think BG1 not 2) some of those are very cool
- setting can be off-putting for some
- ship stuff is pretty basic, don't expect much
Seems like 2 is pretty much the winner, and it probably is the better game objectively speaking, but the superior atmosphere and companions of PoE1 make up for it so it's a draw for me
> but the superior atmosphere and companions of PoE1
I agree that overall PoE1 had a better atmosphere, but the Caribbean style setting of PoE2 was great. One of the most unique settings that I have come across in CRPGs.
>less companions, most are imo worse compared to total bros from 1 in both likeability and writing quality, also has sidekicks which are like companions lite (think BG1 not 2) some of those are very cool
Yep. Eder, for example, went from a chill dude bro to a marvel quipping animalgay.
>imo DLCs are even better than the WM for poe1
This I personally disagree with. I wasn't a fan of the short form dlcs of PoE2, and none of them really compared to WM imo. Some people were shilling Beast of Winter as one of the best expansions they have played in general, and I am not sure what about it makes people think that.
Poe2 dlcs are well integrated into the narrative of the main story while wm is an old school style expantion pack, also sure gives off lonelywood vibes
Fair enough, that is true. Still, it was nowhere as bad as PoE2.
>dlcs
imo WM is too cramped with [quite challenging] combat
and it is a completely separate story ... and it's long as frick (then again it's spread into part 1and 2)
while 2's dlcs manage to provide both challenging encounters, and exploration/narrative progression
not only that but stories of DLCs fit perfectly with the whole narrative >what happens to souls who don't return to the wheel >the fall of Ukaizo >the pinnacle of the Saint's War >hey now Wael wants an avatar to do some shenanigans as well
it's all so fitting that a lot of players don't even realize they are playing DLC content
also for me personally I just really dig the whole death cult thing in BOW
>imo WM is too cramped with [quite challenging] combat
Agreed, Sawyer talked about this when he did one of his PoE1 retrospectives on YouTube. He has always had an issue of making crapped, challenging, and common encounters in dungeons since IWD. He remedied it alot in PoE2.
Still, I thought the whole setup of how dangerous the Battery became was cool, and the philosophical discussion with Abydon's aspects and Ondra was really fitting. Plus the music for white march was really good. The tavern theme there still lives rent free in my head.
>not only that but stories of DLCs fit perfectly with the whole narrative
Here is my point of contention though, I don't like how much BoW reveals about what happened in the lore. A huge part of the narrative and mystery of PoE1 is exactly wtf happened in the Saint's War. Why did Eder's brother defect, how did the events exactly happen, was Weidwen actually divine, what role did the gods play in it? Same thing with PoE2 and Ukaizo. They just give the mystery away in BoW.
However, I do think that confronting your past in BoW through Iovara was cool though, I liked that part.
one more thing I now remember
I don't like that WM changes the title screen :/ >They just give the mystery away in BoW
I can see where this is coming from but I didn't feel like the mystery was gone
answered questions lead to more questions at least that's what I felt
>dlcs
imo WM is too cramped with [quite challenging] combat
and it is a completely separate story ... and it's long as frick (then again it's spread into part 1and 2)
while 2's dlcs manage to provide both challenging encounters, and exploration/narrative progression
not only that but stories of DLCs fit perfectly with the whole narrative >what happens to souls who don't return to the wheel >the fall of Ukaizo >the pinnacle of the Saint's War >hey now Wael wants an avatar to do some shenanigans as well
it's all so fitting that a lot of players don't even realize they are playing DLC content
also for me personally I just really dig the whole death cult thing in BOW
eder's and a lot of the companions dialogue were heavy handed. I did like Durance, he had that based schizo energy the party needs. talking about smiting people and killing them, based as hell.
the only redeeming quality of Eder for me was speccing him w/ guns so I could have a use of the good gun weapons. I gave him the pirate hat at a Stat loss and I would construct most encounters so that the target was weakened just in time for Eder to pull up the blunder buss and I would say "tally ho, lads" just before executing that npc. that's when the game became fun for me
+ actually meaningful subclasses, multiclassing, and it's fricking great, you can come up with all sorts of crazy roleplay combos and make them actually work up to Veteran for sure
I've got a freak all-multiclass planned for next time I get the itch, and I only play on PoTD, Balanceman's virtue is any combo can work as long as you understand the ruleset pic unrelated
Frick, I really want PoE3. Makes me think what they could've improved on. Where they would've situated it more than anything. They did needlessly fall into the full VA trap because Larian did it for probably a fraction of the cost.
2 mostly has better combat, and has much better builds and itemization (provided you don't pick one of the shafted weapon types, there are two unique poleaxes, one is broken, and the other has class restrictions, but hey at least we got 50 sabres). 1 is better at everything else.
Neither,both POE are one of the few games that actively hate fun,"playing" these games feels like a chore.
I already have a job and the last thing i want from a game is it to feel like a chore or be boring and POE does both.
PoE is nowhere near as bad with the chore and meta fricking as Owlcat games are. You will struggle with a fight on normal and reddit Black folk will tell you about their totally intended 10k turn one damage wipe strat and how that's the best and only way to play the game.
>Obsidian delivers on that front >Member great statue in your castle? >it is alive now and used by the dead god >and you are braindead >but are raised by god of death to chase that statue >seems important, doesn't it? >anyway, how about exploring the archipelago and doing faction quest instead of finding said god?
Modern devs can't understand that story needs breaks for players to explore the world. Start of Morrowind main quest was superb cause your handler plainly tells you to frick off and explore the world, and then major part of MQ is slow without putting sense of urgency on player.
Despite time limits Kingmaker avoided that fate because there is more than enough time between main plot points that you can explore whole map as you wish.
>instead of finding said god?
never understood this """critique"""
what's your idea of finding a giant statue marching several leagues below the sea
apart from sailing and exploring the archipelago and trying to find clues
time limits Kingmaker avoided that fate because there is more than enough time between main plot points that you can explore whole map as you wish.
I disagree, Kingmaker felt episodic as hell, like I was watching a bad Sunday morning cartoon.
>"You finished your current allotment of main story content and defeated the big bad of the week!" >"Tune in next time after you do you your gimmicky card game management sim, and exploring bloated maps filled with annoying encounters!"
The kingdom management was moronic and another time waster in the bloat that was that game. MB Warband did this concept way better.
, how about exploring the archipelago and doing faction quest instead of finding said god?
This was the absolute dumbest story incongruity I've seen in some time. I think that's also what annoys me in POE2 beyond the unfinished boats and rampant self important hipster leftism.
>POE are one of the few games that actively hate fun,"playing" these games feels like a chore.
Could not agree more. The writing is good as most obsidain projects are but wtf the combat is so slow and fricking boring.
yeah they kinda took the fun out of making the character, levelling up and fighting, with the "mechanically best system" as some autists like to say here.
That said, I did enjoy it at times. When my cleric with not great combat stats equipped firebrand and managed to deal some serious damage to the goblinoid critter groups in Caed Nua (I jumped into the drake pit while not being that well equipped and low level and had fun challenge fighting my way back on little rations/rests, consumables and spells).
I usually enjoy the silly pathfinder combat and looney character builds in Kingmaker/WotR more tho. Frick perfect systems, frick balance. I want childish enjoyment.
But PoE 1 is VERY worth playing despite these qualms, IMHO. Companions are nice, setting is surprisingly interesting, despite how it often feels a bit tryhard at first. Still would be improved by removing the firearms, but it manages to survive that affliction. Didn't get to PoE yet.
P.S. Durance? Tch. Devil of Caroc is the 10/10 of the game. Eder is prince of comfy but the pot is just amazing.
>I usually enjoy the silly pathfinder combat and looney character builds in Kingmaker/WotR more tho. Frick perfect systems, frick balance. I want childish enjoyment
You did not play deadfire, or at the very least you did not understand it. This thread has become a very dumb echo chamber.
Neither, both are pure garbage. Imagine having the knowledge, access to resources of 20 years worth of advancement in the industry. And still being worse than baldurs gate 1/2.
1 is the better game imo, its far better paced and has better encounter design overall, people complain about 1 being boring but its much worse in the sequel.
You will go long stretches of doing menial shit, back and forth loading between locations before you even reach the ship exploration, only to find out the exploration is pretty meh
after playing some Divinity it feels like the character creation and beginning was done by complete amateurs
yeah Pillars looks prettier I give you that but video games aren't only paintings to be looked at
combat would probably have been better too if the environment wasn't just decoration
to each their own
personally couldn't play more than 2 hours of each DOS entry >character creation
but this is really surprising
care to elaborate? in dos games you are pretty much just choosing appearance + class, and a lot hints that both these choices aren't going to truly matter much
to each their own
personally couldn't play more than 2 hours of each DOS entry >character creation
but this is really surprising
care to elaborate? in dos games you are pretty much just choosing appearance + class, and a lot hints that both these choices aren't going to truly matter much
I unironically got bored by DOS1 & 2 even after just a few hours. Absolutely nothing was good in those games and the writing was below subpar.
I got burned so hard by DOS that I still haven't touched BG3.
>I got burned so hard by DOS that I still haven't touched BG3.
If you disliked DOS, particularly DOS2, then you will almost certainly dislike BG3. It's essentially DOS2 + 5th ed DnD + high production values for the graphics and animations. Ignore the contrarian trolls pretending they liked BG3, it's AAA goyslop and they're just farming (yous)
It's really a massive improvement over DOS and the systems are polar opposites. BG3 has horizontal progression because it's dnd, whereas DOS has vertical progression like diablo.
I consider PoE to be a thoroughly misunderstood and flawed curiosity that is nonetheless worth playing. I am wrapping up my PoE1 replay now and starting PoE2 soon.
I’ve finished PoE I think twice over the years but holy shit I’ve started it up and played halfway through and gotten bored and dropped it dozens and dozens of times. It always seems like a better idea to play it, than playing it actually is. Some of the systems are decent and I’d agree that it’s a mixture of good ideas with poor implementation (I like that they attempted unsuccessfully to make every stat important for every char, and I like the system of miss graze hit crit, including for spells) but the writing and world building just fall flat and it all feels amateurish and generic. Hard to care about it.
The only games playable with a controller are arcade/console genres like fighting, racing, and platforming games. Trying to play PC genres like shooters, RPGs, or strategy games with a controller is lol
Anyways, the siege of cragholdt is quite possibly the first outdoor area in the entire game that has been genuinely well designed. Incredibly dangerous encounters here and you'll want to sneak around picking off patrols so you don't aggro half the camp. Positioning can make or break a fight so you'll want to scout around and check every angle, then attack very carefully. This is a good map so far. On a side note, I'm at the point of no return in the main campaign, not much to say about it as the whole third act was a bit half baked and I feel like I'd be retreading complaints I've already made, so time to mop up the big side quests and white march part 2.
>Jesus Christ lol, who wrote this guy?
C*lifornians
>NPC says "balls"
Someone call the president. It's time to nuke cuckifornia. >Player character named after 11 year old anime girl, also uses anime girl picture for portrait
Based. Take that SJWs.
>It's time to nuke cuckifornia.
Based >Player character named after 11 year old anime girl, also uses anime girl picture for portrait
This part is extremely cringe though
In Pillars 1 & 2 I made a full custom party with unique portraits I found online. This made the game a thousand times more enjoyable for me than dealing with the cringe pre-written characters e.g. "Pallegrina"
THERE
IS
NO
SUCH
THING
AS
A
BLACK
FEMALE
PALADIN
Sawyer explains to us how a lore accurate phylactery works while I break his encounter with Sagani's wolf. As I have have access to incredibly powerful scrolls now, the lich goes to down, eventually. The hold is mostly just a boss rush, but being able to walk around and talk to people before beating them to death is at least interesting.
No, I'm using the dog in place of what would traditionally be a rogue for pulling. Since it cannot initiate dialogue I have to attack to trigger the dialogue sequence. This party in general is very subpar for potd. People praise cipher and paladin a lot, but honestly the strongest class by far is a druid, on higher difficulties, but I already steamrolled the game with one of those so I decided to play like this and do work arounds with wonky class mechanics and scrolls. Just finished endless paths, I really don't understand the praise for this place since the dungeons are mediocre compared to the game's peaks. I'm really curious as to what floors stood out to people because I'm not seeing it at all. Moving onto white march 2.
Yeah, but just say what you think about the game and not what other people thought. It makes it much more readable and interesting.
5 months ago
Anonymous
I disagree, there are standards in game design and its important to understand where people are coming from in how they percieve it. I don't see how upvoting and downvoting games through entirely subjective posts is anything but worthless white noise.
5 months ago
Anonymous
It's absolutely not important to constantly compare your experiences with everyone else's, especially when human intelligence is so varied. Your posts all come off as a huge chip on your shoulder. Very boring stuff.
i did this, and it's how I learned that I unknowingly skipped like half the quests in the first game. I was sitting there talking to the deity in the beginning and she was like "Oh, you let Raedric become an undead tyrant and terrorize gilded vale, that's cool I guess" and then she went on about the second half of the white march quest which I didn't even know existed. I ended up throwing out my real save entirely and just choosing my options manually.
I struggle to progress in PoE2 because it overwhelms me once you finish the starter island and can go anywhere you want. Aside from that, it's very obviously the better game in almost every conceivable way.
Yes, every sequel narrative makes allowances for people new to the series, since they don't want to turn anyone away. That said, you'll get more out of it from playing the first and they are so similar in age and style that I don't see why you'd bother skipping the first one.
I can't even get passed character creation in Pillars without falling asleep, the hell are you on about? They should prescribe this game to patients with narcolepsy, along with Starfield.
>literally confesses to not playing the game
then what are you doing in this thread?
you don't have anything to add to the discussion
nor on what is good or what is bad about the game
I don't understand why people complain about stats and shit when there's enchants that increase weapon damage by 80% and shit, same for armor. This means you can play the game with any weapon you want if you like it. Most of the big improvements to your base performance will be through enchants so you can focus on items that give unique abilities or procs. This is very remiscent of 3.5e crafting, except instead of your Holy Axiomatic +9 glaive outperforming anything you can find, you can simply improve whatever weapon you like. The main issue is that a lot of good items are in the DLC or endless paths, so the itemization spread feels shitty. Additionally, the might wizard complaint is stupid and I could care less about what "makes sense" in a game as long as the logic is internally consistent throughout the game, which is to say I can simply accept it as the reality in this universe. Oh, and the guys with the gold nameplates? Just don't talk to them. It's extremely unfortunate they replaced all the background NPCs with donut steels but it is what it is. I'd really like to see how the people who interpret the game as boring are playing.
It's mostly minmaxxers who do not like PoE's system. Stats in PoE increase on a flat curve, while stats in DnD grow exponentially. PoE punishes excessive build autism, and alot of DnD system fans don't like that. That, plus complaints of not being able to buff before battles autistically.
>I don't understand why people complain about stats and shit when there's enchants that increase weapon damage by 80% and shit, same for armor
You're not understanding the issue isn't in how to maximize your damage but in build variety. There are so little stats that do anything meaningful and so as a result too many characters end up functioning entirely the same.
I've played through PoE 1 shortly after release and never touched it again.
I do think my overall impression of it might have been too harsh, as there are genuinely good things about it, although the good things are heavily flawed as a result of design decisions).
I do not like the attribute system, and I really, fundamentally disagree with Sawyer's balance™ design philosophy.
I'm gonna replay PoE 1 again. I expect my overall impression of it to improve, but I doubt I'll like it more than Underrail or Pathfinder.
PoE 2 on the other hand I hated even more. While it did make a few, very minor steps forward in terms of design, it was also a bigger step back in many ways.
>there is invaluable data to be found as to why bg3 succeeded
Reddit and “lol you can frick a bear” marketing to degenerate coomers who want a fully motion captured dating sim? >as a modern successor to bg while poe ultimately failed
Neither are a successor to Baldurs gate. Baldurs gate was a self contained story that was conclusively wrapped up and finished. BG3 is a soulless corporate slop reanimated corpse of a “reboot”, it shares nothing but the name, which was chosen solely for cynical appeal to nostalgia bait, and everyone knows it. Pillars at least tried to ape the style but didn’t pretend to be the same thing, which is more honest.
>Neither are a successor to Baldurs gate.
They are, as a mission statement, both games are aiming to achieve the modern equivalent of what baldurs gate was in the past.
>which was chosen solely for cynical appeal to nostalgia bait
Funny you should say this, where Sawyer and Swen differ is mainly Sawyer trying to build on old titles mechanically whereas Swen states he is trying to capture the feeling of the nostalgia generated by old titles. The latter is an admission that old titles aren't necessarily as great as we percieve, and that newer titles should aim for ideals rather than quantitative improvements.
5 months ago
Anonymous
They're both half right. You should expect both mechanical improvements, and recapturing the feeling, in a title that is purported to be a spiritual successor. Fallout 1 was the spiritual successor to Wasteland. Grim Dawn was the spiritual successor to Diablo 2. Prey (2017) was the spiritual successor to System Shock 2.
Pillars was targeted at boomers who play BG1 and BG2. It captured some superficial elements of the original games, like the camera angle, a six-man party, the mouse cursor, but it failed to capture the spirit and soul of the original games. It did attempt to build on them mechanically, to varying degrees of success (some good ideas, and some moronic ideas as well), and it is obviously a modern attempt at that style of game, with modern improvements (the most immediately obvious improvement is overhauling the inventory system and the looting system, which is IMO the clunkiest part of replaying the originals today), but it failed to recapture the soul (ironic, given the plot)
BG3 was targeted at Critical Role watching zoomers who never played the originals, but know that they're supposed to be good. It not only failed to capture the soul of the originals, it comes across as a meme-y satire of them. It has "remember X? remember Y?" references, and nothing more. It doesn't attempt to build on the originals, it's merely DOS3, and in many ways, it's inexplicably a step backwards from DOS3 (the hirelings, the interface, the inventory/vendor systems, the world tooltips, all somehow shittier than an older game on the same engine)
5 months ago
Anonymous
I honestly can't think of what BG3 was even supposed to have done well, besides having a big budget and high production values, and effective marketing. It's certainly popular and sold well, but that's it.
5 months ago
Anonymous
didn't read that
but I feel you lil' homie
I'm happy for you, or sorry for your loss
whatever
5 months ago
Anonymous
>They're both half right
No, you can't build on what bg2 is because IE is a bad engine and the games are a product of its limitations, and any game released now following those standards will be subpar. This is called regression, and it's stupid and infantile.
5 months ago
Anonymous
IE is a fantastic engine >beautiful maps >fast loading times >easily moddable >controlling the party feels very fluid >supports cool shit like clones and sequencers
On the other hand we have bloated unityshit and larianslop with soulless UI, toilet chain and no day/night cycle.
5 months ago
Anonymous
I feel like this post was written by a 65 iq turd worlder.
>Reddit and “lol you can frick a bear” marketing to degenerate coomers who want a fully motion captured dating sim?
If this was the reason, Dragon Ages past Origins and ME:Andromeda would be hits and Bioware wouldn't be in process of being put down by EA.
>years of marketing?
I have honestly seen more rogue trader ads in a week than I have ever seen bg3 ads.
5 months ago
Anonymous
I'm talking more word of mouth, I don't see ads on the internet at all and haven't in years. Just it being in EA for however many years is far better reach. That's just one component anyway. The main thing, IMO, is the co-op. It's why DOS2 did well. Developers should pay attention to that.
5 months ago
Anonymous
See, I haven't seen one ad of rt, but heavy marketing for bg3 for the last 9 months.
you guys have adds on the internet?
5 months ago
Anonymous
Literally every single piece of information fed to you is dictated by an algorithm.
5 months ago
Anonymous
This isn't true, though I get your point, but this has nothing to do with using an ad-blocker.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Regardless of whether or not you use ad blocker you are being solely informed by algorithms generated by megacorporations. This means anyone too young to remember 9/11 is basically a soulless automaton.
5 months ago
Anonymous
It really depends on your browsing habits, percentage of time online, and who you talk with in general.
5 months ago
Anonymous
See, I haven't seen one ad of rt, but heavy marketing for bg3 for the last 9 months.
>do not like the attribute system, and I really, fundamentally disagree with Sawyer's balance™ design philosophy.
Hopefully this can lead to an interesting discussion
Can you please elaborate further on both points?
What specifically about the system you dislike and what is >Sawyer's balance™ design philosophy
And in what way you disagree
>Sawyer's balance™ design philosophy
Not him, but I think people mean the "no build left behind" mentality and the focus on symmetrical design. This along with the aggressive patching post-release to combat player inventiveness leads to a quite sterile, almost MMO feel. It's really a matter of taste.
>almost MMO feel
What mmo plays like this? Your completely misinterpreting the balance philosophy, the entire point was to make deviations from trinity structure functional, ironically the opposite of an mmo.
Almost all MMO's have a propensity to desire symmetrical balance and to constant clean up after player's ingenuity, since their players constantly whine about each other's characters being OP or not. It's the mindset of a multiplayer game put onto a singleplayer one, PoE is a homebrew tabletop system and it carries some of that multiplayer baggage as cargo cult design.
So your complaint is not that it's like an mmo, but that it's like actual tabletop, which is just a more malleable pen and paper expression of video game systems anyways? The game isn't broken enough is your issue? If you just want to be handed the win without thinking or playing then say what you really mean and stop trying to act like it's the games fault.
5 months ago
Anonymous
You seem to have difficulty understanding my posts. Here's some help. I find symmetrical balance to be sterile. I don't find RPGs to be difficult at all. Multiplayer concerns are not important in singleplayer party games.
5 months ago
Anonymous
You just wanted to be handed a free win without trying by copy-pasting broken builds and you're blaming the game. You're an actual real life pseud LMAO
5 months ago
Anonymous
Already making shit up? I accept your concession.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>here's what I really mean >repeat exactly what he just posted
5 months ago
Anonymous
Incorrect.
5 months ago
Anonymous
This has to be one of the stupidest posts I have ever seen there. Do you even realize what you just typed?
5 months ago
Anonymous
Explain it to me.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Why should anyone reply to someone like you? It's very clear what your issue is and I'm sure you'll throw a moron tantrum and shit up the thread now. I can't come to your house and euthanize you, so the issue is not solvable.
>MMO's have a propensity to desire symmetrical balance and to constant clean up after player's ingenuity
this really deviates from the questions I was asking ta, but is interesting as well
is this really what you feel PoE's le balance is about?
or are you just salty a build you specifically came up with early after release got nerfed?
I'm asking because it really seem like an ingenious jab at the game
After all it does have stronger and weaker builds, it can have highly optimized builds, OP even
and no one is trying to remove these unbalances altogether
nothing on par with what you are describing as MMOesque
making more builds viable on lower difficulties =/= restricting players from making optimized builds that are stronger
and if some build was OP _with too little effort_ due to an unintended error, I don't see harm in correcting the error and nerfing whatever is making it OP
after all what's the fun of making an OP build if it's centered around a simple trick?
5 months ago
Anonymous
It's really about the feeling. That's why I said it's a matter of taste. It just feels sterile and reactive, like they are trying to anticipate me and react to me, so the whole system plays out like dev vs. player. It's not about wanting to be OP, it's about being the type of person even using that word at all, or not.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>It's really about the feeling
It's really not though. This is something dumb people say.
5 months ago
Anonymous
It's just something non-autistic people say. Don't worry about it.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>It's really about the feeling.
agree to disagree then
but I hope you understand this is were any implications of possible objectivity are dropped as well
5 months ago
Anonymous
What you value in your entertainment products isn't objective, yes. Otherwise there would be the One True Design™.
5 months ago
Anonymous
by all means
what you value in entertainment is your own deal
on the other hand that's not what we were discussing though, was it?
genres being farther or closer is not only objective it is measurable [even if it is too tedious to do in a form of an online argument]
and a game having or not having features of a certain genre is objective as well
you are free to like or dislike whatever you want
but if you are coming into a discussion and dismissing any argument because of the way you ""feel"" about something
there is nothing to left other than just stop a fruitless discussion
I wouldn't call it an mmo feel.
To me the main issue with the attributes is they feel more like an arpg system like a path of exile build, and the way in which stats overlap detracts from the exclusivity of typical rpg systems. For instance if you want a wizard that does big damage spells you simultaneously make one that is incredibly physically strong. If you want a barbarian that does massive aoe they are simultaneously highly intelligent. There is no physically weak old man that can vaporize a building, no dumb as a rock barbarian that cleaves 10 feet around him through physical strength.
It's like a system made to be exploited through specific builds rather than forcing choices in a classic d&d statline. It's exactly like path of exile where you build with one specific strategy in mind.
>There is no physically weak old man that can vaporize a building
To reach extremely high stats you would have to dump CON and RES, which would result in a frail character, valid for ranged but not melee.
He'd go down to a breeze but could detonate you by casting fist. That's still immense physical strength. It kind of highlights one of the oversights in that might is simultaneously str, int, and wis in d&d but con is still just con. It's like they tried to make a custom system but stopped half way.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>It kind of highlights one of the oversights in that might is simultaneously str, int, and wis in d&d but con is still just con. It's like they tried to make a custom system but stopped half way.
But int and wis didn't do anything in bg1 and 2. At all. Now instead we have damage stats spread more evenly across might, dexterity, and perception. Someone who doesn't focus on all of these won't be very good at damage dealing at all. And again the muscle wizards complaint is silly, just look at the lich in
Sawyer explains to us how a lore accurate phylactery works while I break his encounter with Sagani's wolf. As I have have access to incredibly powerful scrolls now, the lich goes to down, eventually. The hold is mostly just a boss rush, but being able to walk around and talk to people before beating them to death is at least interesting.
, he's one of the most important wizards in the game and he's ripped like Skeletor. Just accept it as how the universe works.
5 months ago
Anonymous
But the lore of a wizard in Pillars says nothing about physical strength being a component of magical power. So, this isn't how the universe works, it's how the game system is built, which is actually at odds with the setting, creating disjointed character fantasies.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Anon, Concelhaut is ripped because he worked out at the library. It's entirely consistent with the universe.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>which is actually at odds with the setting
it's not
show me a in-lore muscle-wizard by stats who is portrayed to be a weakling
there is more to being a wizard then simply physical strength, so it's not a requirement for a powerful wizard to be buffed as shit (although some are)
5 months ago
Anonymous
Wizards are researchers in the lore. Might is just a gamification composite stat that they didn't separate during ability checks properly.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Wizards are researchers in the lore
does that somehow restrict a person to be of an above average physic?
some of the greatest classical greek scholars were ripped
some of the best Renaissance old masters of art were scoundrels who fricked b***hes and constantly got into bar fights
come out of your cave grognard anon and hit the gym
an able body makes for a strong spirit
5 months ago
Anonymous
I'm just describing the actual class concept as the developers laid out and how it relates to ability check confusion. You are talking about reality for some reason.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>describing the actual class concept as the developers laid out
are you?
please tell me where it is said that wizards are supposed to be of subpar physic >The masters of academic magic, wizards are students of arcane traditions that stretch back beyond the boundaries of recorded history. Wizards are a highly organized group, often forming academies or guilds devoted to research and development in magical studies, and tend to favor environments where inquiry, experimentation, debate, and the dissemination of knowledge are encouraged. Many accomplished wizards eventually become known for their eccentricity, their egos, and their unquenchable interest in all things arcane and occult.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>just look at a lich, an undead that doesn't play by the physical rules of mortals as an example of this system working >oh btw this lich could also be functionally moronic but would still be able to cast nukes >also let's just reference 2nd edition d&d which was so archaic even people who played bg1 and 2 didn't fully grasp it and ignore all instances of 3rd and 3.5 edition which featured some of the most beloved games.
>To me the main issue with the attributes is they feel more like an arpg system like a path of exile build
It's not like an ARPG at all because progression is horizontal, not vertical. That is the opposite of path of exile, and trying to play it that way will punish you.
I think it's imoprtant to note you are coming into this with wrong expectations
This is a system for a Crpg first and foremost
It is not trying to simulate a realistic framework that would work for all kind of extremes
And for good reasons
obviously this kind of system would not only be not fun, but even not feasible at all
So instead the system just drops any attempts in doing extremes
it is implies that there is no physical old man, he just isn't fit to be an adventurer
nor is there a dumb as rock giant, he is a circus freak and has no agency of his own, so is not fit to be an adventurer
for example in DnD if your Str score is 3, you are basically a cripple,
in PoE with a Str score of 2 you have a -24% damage penalty
the entire range of an attribute scores starts from just being a quarter less capable then the average person
Both are good. In PoE1 main story does hold up stronger, but PoE2 creates a more interesting world by weaving together faction quests with side missions, barks and the entire atmosphere while leaving the main plot to indirectly affect it. I've enjoyed 2 more because of gameplay and polish - it's much better and more pleasant to play. But if you want a strong main plot, 2 may prove lacking - I've deeply enjoyed all it had to offer, but main quest is pretty short and choppy.
Intellect doesn't describe accumulated book-smarts, that's lore skill
Intellect is an abstraction wits, quick thinking, being able to grasp new concepts
and is indeed unironically important in fighting irl
especially if you are outnumbered which is implied for PoE barbarians
Again, this is a system for a crpg
not a an accurate simulation of meta-human abilities to interact with the world
there is LITERALLY no other way
isn't strength a composite stat for leg strength and upper body strength?
what about dnd/dnd derivded systems like pathfinder?
In PF isn't charisma a composite stat for both looks and leadership?
in adnd 2e
isn't intelligence a composite stat for memory as well as reasoning?
Why does a cRPG need such a small number of attributes? Or attributes at all? It's cargo cult design.
>describing the actual class concept as the developers laid out
are you?
please tell me where it is said that wizards are supposed to be of subpar physic >The masters of academic magic, wizards are students of arcane traditions that stretch back beyond the boundaries of recorded history. Wizards are a highly organized group, often forming academies or guilds devoted to research and development in magical studies, and tend to favor environments where inquiry, experimentation, debate, and the dissemination of knowledge are encouraged. Many accomplished wizards eventually become known for their eccentricity, their egos, and their unquenchable interest in all things arcane and occult.
I see nothing about physical strength being a part of their abilities. Because it isn't.
by all means
what you value in entertainment is your own deal
on the other hand that's not what we were discussing though, was it?
genres being farther or closer is not only objective it is measurable [even if it is too tedious to do in a form of an online argument]
and a game having or not having features of a certain genre is objective as well
you are free to like or dislike whatever you want
but if you are coming into a discussion and dismissing any argument because of the way you ""feel"" about something
there is nothing to left other than just stop a fruitless discussion
so have a good day
RPGs are a composite genre with an incredible number of iterations, what you value and which systems you like is entirely subjective. You need more flexibility if you want to understand other people's perceptions.
>Why does a cRPG need such a small number of attributes?
why don't you answer that yourself? even better come up with your own system that has a separate attribute for everything, so you can go without composite attributes,
and then, if you aren't insane by that time, try to convince some of your friends to play it
and if you actually succeed, because you have a gun, try convincing them doing it again
because they sure as hell would rather be shot dead at that point >I see nothing about physical strength being a part of their abilities. Because it isn't.
this is absurd
let me guess, Aragorn didn't wear pants because nowhere in the text does it specify that he indeed did?
Pillars 1 is a game I absolutely do not understand. I seriously enjoyed Kingmaker and played it for a long time but Pillars, and I hate this "criticism", is a genuine bore to me. Every time I open it up 10 different games I don't really want to play or even thought of before opening Pillars come to mind that I for some reason would rather play in that moment.
>I enjoy POE 1 and 2 more than any of the new crop of crpgs. I don't think I can even explain why. They're just comfy games for me.
I dislike these games and you know what? This is a completely reasonable argument that no one can argue with. Bless you, anon, and I hope you have fun playing them.
Finished with the abbey. Pretty well designed map with an interesting story. Several ways to approach and complete this. Pretty incredible map renders, aesthetically. The encounters are certainly lacking but you'll want to avoid them anyways.
Last of the dragons and hardest fight in the game done, on PotD. Even with a suboptimal party it was not terrible, priest and wizard is all you really need to beat anything. Had the bard tank the whole fight even. I'm still not level capped and all that's left is a handful of side quests I don't care about and won't be doing, so off to finish the game.
I'm going to attempt a POTD run through of both games. Starting in 1, PC Paladin, Eder, Durance, custom Wizard, custom Rogue, what would you take as the last class? I'm leaning Cipher.
PoE1 playthrough is over. I still maintain that the game is not among the rpg greats, but deserves a place among the many curiosities that exist in the genre that are worth experiencing. It's easily the best implementation of rtwp combat on a technical level, if nothing else, and this will probably be true for a long time. Whether the encounters in this game fully exercise these mechanics in a fun and interesting way, and if rtwp is worth it to begin with, is up for debate. The campaign is not the best, but the setting is interesting despite being mundane, which is to say rather than being steampunk or in space or some other such unusual bullshit, it is simply an interesting place with a lot of work that went into its creation, although more work went into its background than fleshing out what the player directly interacts with, and this hurts the pacing badly in certain parts.
Imported my save to PoE2. PotD again, same race, same background, (valian aristocrat for maximum smug responses) the only difference being that I've upgraded to ascendant cipher. Very exciting intro and I am always shocked by PoE2's absolutely stunning aesthetics which, I think, are rivaled only by Disco Elysium in CRPGs, and the prose has greatly improved from the first game, making it quite fun to read. I actually LOVE nautical settings, as a disclaimer, and as such PoE2 is always quite a treat in that regard.
The prose in poe 1 in objectively denser, so this is a strange complaint. It's also a lot dryer and more serious. >it was written by women.
It's mainly split between a woman and Sawyer, who is an aging lesbian trapped in a man's body, so this is not entirely untrue.
>prose is too wordy, pretentious and gay
Yeah maybe a bit, but still an improvement
Especially when it comes to wordy especially for anything avellone wrote
Done with Port Mojave. Lots of big changes from PoE1 here. While bystanders mostly have 3-4 canned responses, many of them gossip amongst themselves in the background, giving a much needed boost to the liveliness of cities. Gone are the gold portrait kickstarter lore dumps and in their place we have the ghosts of the recently departed, who are directly related to whats happening in the campaign, and we collect their souls as we meet them like some sort of grim reaper. Going around talking to your crew and informing them that they are, unfortunately, quite dead is pretty amusing. Day/night cycles affect the positioning of NPCs and we have some choices to make in quests outside of dialogue, like slaying the prison guard and freeing her captive, if we wish to acquire a new crew member. Skill checks have been significantly improved as well. They now check multiple skills, and you must manually pick the party member that has the best combination suited for the task at hand. The devs leaned harder into stealth, and not only is it more involved but it's also really important now for positioning and first strikes. The first major battle is the drake at the digsite, and due to refusing to pick up mercs this is quite the battle, but with grenades and interdiction it's still pretty feasible, and there isn't anything of this caliber until at least act 2 in poe1. At the end we're reunited with our good buddy Aloth, and continue our journey to reap souls and hunt down a 270m tall naked man. Much less serious and edgy than the grimdark stillborn baby storyline of poe1, feels like I'm in an anime.
>very trans
we aint discussin you though
PS there isn't actually a single trans char in PoE 1/2 is there?
5 months ago
Anonymous
Aloth is a woman trapped in a man's body, Pallegina is legally genderless in her home country.
5 months ago
Anonymous
You are stretching it to fricking thin
So no, it doesn't have a single one?
Least pozzed crpg of the crpg revival confirmed
Thank you Josh for shielding our crpgs from trannies!
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Thank you Josh for shielding our crpgs from trannies!
This is a terrible hill to die on.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>he literally suffered so he could shield us from the suffering
Josh... I kneel
5 months ago
Anonymous
5 months ago
Anonymous
>marriage is between one man and one woman for the purpose of procreation
based Sawyer
5 months ago
Anonymous
Pallegina and her whole hang-up over being godlike feels like a thinly veiled trans metaphor, especially in 2.
5 months ago
Anonymous
perhaps if you are trans yourself or a soon to be trans and you perceive everything as a thinly veiled trans metaphor
we regular people don't see it that way
but thanks for letting us know and sorry for your pp
5 months ago
Anonymous
She's mad about it because she's discriminated against and will also never be able to have a family.
>taking a Black person in your party >taking a Black person woman in your party
imagine even knowing anything about Pallegina's character in the first place
1. What's your opinion of PoE2 compared to its predecessor so far?
2. How does it stand compared to other greats such as Disco Elysium in terms of story and dialogue?
Thank you for your insight fren. I'm looking for something to scratch an itch after going through Disco Elysium. Oddly enough I never liked Baldur's Gate, but I did like Planescape: Torment.
NTA but the gameplay is better than the first but the story and writing and setting are still stupid. Try PoE1, grab it on sale for cheap, but it’s certainly not in the same vein as pst (or DE for that matter)
Motb is supposed to be pretty good. I’ve never played it, I only finished nwn2 once back in the day before the expansions came out. I couldn’t compare them for you, sorry. Supposedly it’s good at having very fleshed out evil options if that is your thing (I find it abhorrent personally)
i enjoyed poe but sad to hear that the story goes to utter contemptable shit in deadfire
sad that current recent crpgs leave much to be desired although it does seem that you need to have quite the budget to attain success in the genre
Who says the story goes to shit in Deadfire? Also, not sure if it was posted, but Sawyer was limited by the initial conditions of the crowdfund. He arrived on the scene after the crowdfund was set in stone, he had no choice but to respect the wishes of the funders, even if they did not align with his. I wish he had followed his instincts 🙁
>Who says the story goes to shit in Deadfire
It's actually honestly improved in deadfire. The ending conclusion of poe1 is actually really fricked up on its own.
the whole following the plot device that is eothas for the entirety of the game and nothing you do mattering, you disingenious celebrity worshipping cum-slurping homosexual
The whole point of Eothas is that you are merely an observer and puppet in the machinations of the gods. Thats literally why Eothas does the spoiler thing. You are the decider in earthly matters, which is to say the fate of deadfire, and that's pretty significant.
>ship stuff is unfairly maligned. Compared to Owlcat mini games it is top notch, but that is a low bar I guess.
The best part about it is that it is pretty low key, it never gets in your way when adventuring >LEARN AMERICA^w OWLCAT
>The environmental design and quests are much better than PoE2. Writing is hugely improved and less amateur, which makes going around talking to NPCs more enjoyable rather than everyone being edgy lore dump robots. Companions have a lot more personality. Eder, for example, is no longer a doormat, and will call you out for being an evil bastard. He also has a romance of sorts with a new companion, Xoti, which makes the game kinda feel like Lunar, in that it is bubbly and romantic. I did not enjoy anything that was not dungeons in poe1 at all, like not even a little, but it is much more fun to explore here. I think the ship stuff is unfairly maligned. Compared to Owlcat mini games it is top notch, but that is a low bar I guess.
bro you have all the wrong opinions and it's absolutely hilarious because I know you're not trolling
>bro you have all the wrong opinions
I notice you have no argument to back that up and are also not currently playing the game. For all we know, you bulldozed through the games on normal and let reddit and Obsidian forums mold your stupid fedora opinions. Imagine reddits butthurt when the whole atheist shtick of 1 turned out to be wrong and eothas literally becomes Jesus in the second game.
I'm a traditional Catholic
Deadfire is better in the ways he says it's worse and vice versa. Imagine saying the Deadfire companions are better than 1. It's so objectively wrong that I would immediately assume whoever said so was trolling, but I know this gay isn't.
>Eder, for example, is no longer a doormat, and will call you out for being an evil bastard. He also has a romance of sorts with a new companion, Xoti, which makes the game kinda feel like Lunar, in that it is bubbly and romantic >bro you have all the wrong opinions and it's absolutely hilarious because I know you're not trolling
I don't even hate every opinion of moeblob but I have to pity this level of terminal loneliness that projects such things onto a bad game.
[...]
> I think the ship stuff is unfairly maligned. Compared to Owlcat mini games it is top notch, but that is a low bar I guess.
Ships in POE2: >cookie clicker ships near the big harbor and rob them in seconds for infinite gold >kill a blob of pointless trash above deck >do the boring menu thing which is the same every time, tedious and slow, and did i mention it is a menu
People don't like kingdom and armies in PKM and Wrath because they have the attention span of fleas but they have a lot going on as a counterpoint to RtWP: >extra roleplay development with strategic decisions of advisors >interesting units and events that can be developed in different styles according to your MC style
The "minigames" in both owlcat titles are miles above the unfinished ships, come on now Moe.
>I don't even hate every opinion of moeblob but I have to pity this level of terminal loneliness that projects such things onto a bad game.
Do you even know what he's talking about? Did you play Lunar?
I've known the point of anime since Otaku No Video, replacing the increasing worthlessness of female companionship and escape for the hardworking Nipponese young man during his progression into herbivorism of no longer giving a frick about participation and those of similar philosophy (Moe period catering to Christmas Cake women not withstanding).
It's another opiate of the masses of which I don't need to know the specific comfy relationship of Lunar to have seen it across several other titles.
Lunar is a romantic comedy where all of your party companions meet their significant others in the game. Which is to say the entire party isn't trying to suck CHARNAME off, so it's literally the opposite of what you are saying. This has the effect of giving a game a romantic theme, whereas most western games with romance elements wind up being more written like pornos. Lunar is a highly influential game by the way, you should play it. Many character archtypes were born from that game.
>the opposite of what I said seems to be in anon's delusional world a description of a harem anime >When in fact most all anime is a relational substitute or escapism >Sometimes it even has things like quantum mechanics packaged into the escapism but there it is, even if it is a slice of life title that is about a better more perfect life far removed from the social isolation of today and nothing to do with sucking off MC/harems and what not.
I don't doubt it is nice and poignant and I probably should get around to it, but there is more to life and literature than pornos and harems vs. not and anime is still a massively escapist genre so this invalidates none of what I said.
I'm just cursed with more understanding than most, not less. You can see how it might be confusing for others that live at surface take depth only.
5 months ago
Anonymous
You've completely strayed from the discussion at this point. That's an awfully big text wall for a concession.
5 months ago
Anonymous
All weebs currently participating have either repeated themselves, or appealed to false authority (misrepresenting that even) at this time.
My record as the Breaker of Weebs stands untarnished.
>The "minigames" in both owlcat titles are miles above the unfinished ships
nah
thirst of all there are 3 now
humerus enough owlcat follows obsidian in minigames theme
obsidian did barony, owlcat does a barony
obsidian did a ship, owlcat does a ship
and each time obsidian's version is better
and yes deadfire's ships are better for a simple reason
I want to play a crpg not an extremely basic version of X genre
and no despite your mental gymnastics it does not add value to roleplaying and it does ruin the immersion
obsidian's mechanics take 3 clicks and don't get in the way of me playing an actual crpg
>bro you have all the wrong opinions
He's basically just reiterating the post-game analysis of the lead developer reflecting on why it performed worse than the first game. And it's true that combat was a hotly criticized issue in the main game, which is why they added many more difficult encounters. Additionally, while the main plot was criticized, the writing was not, whereas both the plot and writing was criticized in PoE1.
Deadfire's main issues were, imo, doubling down on the main issues in PoE1 due to pride. Sawyer is very bad at recognizing what his strengths are and playing to them.
The repetitive combat system where every class runs together and loses identity, which they "remedied" by adding multi which further blends classes and replacing vancian magic which a generic empower ability, and further reducing unique classes by adding subclasses which undermine their functions, like focus becoming an unimportant footnote of how cipher works. Additionally, PoE1 had a rather bare main plot with a focus on side content, and deadfire added a big ocean to explore. So, as you can see, not really addressing the problems here, but rather building on them thinking people will finally see the light or whatever, and while deadfire improves a lot of things and I like it, someone indifferent to the first game, which was carried by nostalgia marketing rather than acclaim, would likely not be interesting in a sequel which abandons the nostalgia anyways.
We need to go back to make your own adventure RPGs that don't focus so much on some big poorly written overarching plot. POE is the closest we've got to that in modern times.
No, BG3 is that, with its anchor point narrative design. This is how games like wizardry and gold box work. You are just given an objective and its up to you how to figure out how to reach it. PoE uses branching quest design, mostly, the wizard's tower in deadfire is an example of it not doing that. Like most of the time there is a very clear path to solving quests, and having 30 quests at once doesn't change that. It's very bad in poe1, and they step away from it in deadfire a bit, but it's still there as a foundation. It does this because it's how bg1 and 2 does this, by the way, but it's not how we remember them. And that's why its important to design games around ideals in people's heads rather than reality.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>No, BG3 is that, with its anchor point narrative design
I wouldn't know, I don't play goyslop >This is how games like wizardry and gold box work
Yes that's what I was thinking of.
>that moment that you know anon from the first sentence and you know you can safely ignore the entire post as this moron never has anything of value to add
Didn't read
>every class runs together and loses identity
I can certainly see how this is a problem in deadfire (it mostly annoys me with Barbarian which lost its class identity in carnage and in Deadfire is mostly just worse monk) but PoE1 has more distinct class mechanics than the games they are based on. The difference between a barbarian, fighter, paladin or ranger in BG1-2 is pretty minor and PoE1 they are more distinct. Same with PoE chanter, cipher, or wizard compared to BG1-2 sorcerer, bard, or mage.
>PoE1 has more distinct class mechanics than the games they are based on
Yes and no, there is a danger of missing the forest for the trees. PoE1 was designed so any class could be anything so this functionally means that every class can do the same thing but in different ways, whereas in dnd characters generally have distinct talents. The few classes that do not fall into this trap have little in the way of build variety, like there is really only one good build for priests and everything else is just terrible by comparison, same for rangers. So PoE is distinct in form but not function imo.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>PoE1 was designed so any class could be anything so this functionally means that every class can do the same thing but in different ways
No it wasn't. What are you even talking about? All the classed have defined roles with some - small - overlap. Wizards can do wild shit like temporarily be amazing tanks, but most classes stick to their role.
5 months ago
Anonymous
There is no tanking in PoE technically. Even fighters are limited in their effectiveness as a tank by a temporary buff, making them functionally the same as a wizard in this regard mechanically. You basically just build up buffs/debuffs until you can overwhelm the opposition, tanking is of little value. A cipher can be a tank, so can a paladin, a rangers pet, a priest, anyone.
5 months ago
Anonymous
You CAN do things and get away with them because even on POTD the difficulty plummets midgame, but a Ranger pet for example will always be a sub-par tank and a St. Elcga Paladin will always be the best.
5 months ago
Anonymous
No, the best tank will always be someone who can tank while doing other things. Anything else is a waste because fights are basically endurance tests, where the longer they run the worse off you are.
This is the hardest fight in the game:
?si=XSBdWaJVB8lGAgVP
As you can see, no tanking required here, just throw the helm that reduces breath damage by 50% on the primary melee.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Wizards can do wild shit like temporarily be amazing tanks, but most classes stick to their role.
I literally just did a potd poe1 playthrough where durance and kana were my tanks and posted it here.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>. PoE1 was designed so any class could be anything so this functionally means that every class can do the same thing but in different ways,
Eh, You can dps or tank with anything in PoE1 (except rogue and ranger who are awful as tanks), but your ability to AoE, CC, or support is rather class dependent.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>your ability to AoE, CC, or support is rather class dependent.
Not really, weaken, frighten, daze, and blind are not really unique to any class, nor is AOE. And this is further blurred by abilities on items.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>When you really think about it, games are just 1s and 0s after all. It's all the same
reductio ad absurdum strikes again
5 months ago
Anonymous
I accept your concession.
5 months ago
Anonymous
> weaken, frighten, daze, and blind are not really unique to any class
Hardly anything in dnd is unique to any one class, and there's groups of classes in PoE1 that are clearly way better at some things than others. Without using spell scrolls Fighter/rogue/ranger can't meaningful AoE anything compared to a druid whos every offensive spell damages and debuffs everything on the screen or a barb that hits 5 enemies every swing by default. Or if you want a tanky support you can build it as a paladin, chanter, priest, or druid and a cipher/fighter/monk etc. will not be able to fill that role and be nearly as effective.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Without using spell scrolls Fighter/rogue/ranger can't meaningful AoE
Literally the only way to play ranger in poe1 is to rapid fire stormcaller to spam aoe stun.
>It's just a fun adventurer. There are some interesting themes and the world is cool, but it's not like some subversive Alan Moore comic with its head up its ass.
See this is 2x funny now because not only do you have a better opinion here (frick "subversive progressives") I was specifically going to mention Tales of the Black Freighter as the counterpoint in Watchmen similar to the strategy modes in PKM and Wrath as counterpoints before I even read your last line here.
Things were pretty saccharine in Moore's time for superheroes, I don't blame him for doing it then and Watchmen is a good piece. It's gone the other way these days, making sincerity the actual subversive and progressive elements.
Capitalism has already declared Owlcat the winner, I do not defend, merely correct the record. >burger flavor replacement like a brewer >goblin buildings >chaos aligned prostitutehouse >stocks for lawful evil >still not seeing how crew mattered when deck boarding didn't matter as they're all fluff nothing npc and the ship battles were skippable via robbing instead (and meta path of least resistance) but i guess it was a thing in the menu
>The "minigames" in both owlcat titles are miles above the unfinished ships
nah
thirst of all there are 3 now
humerus enough owlcat follows obsidian in minigames theme
obsidian did barony, owlcat does a barony
obsidian did a ship, owlcat does a ship
and each time obsidian's version is better
and yes deadfire's ships are better for a simple reason
I want to play a crpg not an extremely basic version of X genre
and no despite your mental gymnastics it does not add value to roleplaying and it does ruin the immersion
obsidian's mechanics take 3 clicks and don't get in the way of me playing an actual crpg
It's ok to be wrong anon. >3 titles not two gottem
This is where adhd zooms that instantly leap on an EA title and then b***h that it is unfinished and I differ greatly. I have great patience in waiting for things to bake properly. >obsidian's mechanics take 3 clicks and don't get in the way of me playing an actual crpg >less investment = more rpg immersion
x to doubt
I could do the "are you sure you played thing" to both of you but I don't need these weak tactics.
>Capitalism has already declared Owlcat the winner
Owlcat is unironically dead, Obsidian created an IP which enabled them to be bought out by Microsoft. Both companies saw a horrible end. However, IWD wasn't a popular game either, but remains a certified hood classic, to the point of IWD2 being redeemed in EE which borrowed many features from PoE in its overall design retroactively. I can see poe 1 and 2 being played 20 years from now, but I reckon owlcat will be dead and forgotten, as PoE is original and novel whereas Owlcats games are derivative and regressive.
why do you think they made such a rushed release?
literally broken to the point of the game being unbeatable at launch
they are running out of money and time
their first games rode the covid gaming wave, but they won't survive long now that it's out of breath and entertainment businesses are cutting costs like crazy [for a good reason]
this
all 3 owlcat games are carried by respective IP's fans
they made the only 2 crpgs based on Pathfinder
they literally made _the only_ crpg in WH40K to date
they are great businessmen but are bankrupt in terms of creativity and mastership
their games have nothing to offer outside the IP
copied mechanics (terrible mechanics when they try going beyond copying), bad pacing, bad level design, bad encounter design, unnecessary and non-organic and poorly baked side-mechanics, technical issues, that's all they have to offer besides the IP
in 20 years PF will be a dead IP and WH40K will have plenty of better games and no one will care about these ones
[...]
Capitalism has already declared Owlcat the winner, I do not defend, merely correct the record. >burger flavor replacement like a brewer >goblin buildings >chaos aligned prostitutehouse >stocks for lawful evil >still not seeing how crew mattered when deck boarding didn't matter as they're all fluff nothing npc and the ship battles were skippable via robbing instead (and meta path of least resistance) but i guess it was a thing in the menu
[...]
It's ok to be wrong anon. >3 titles not two gottem
This is where adhd zooms that instantly leap on an EA title and then b***h that it is unfinished and I differ greatly. I have great patience in waiting for things to bake properly. >obsidian's mechanics take 3 clicks and don't get in the way of me playing an actual crpg >less investment = more rpg immersion
x to doubt
I could do the "are you sure you played thing" to both of you but I don't need these weak tactics.
>Capitalism has already declared the winner
so it did with tyler swift or some other shit, this means nothing to me
all owlcats game have lower userscores compared to PoE1/2, the core audience has declared the winner and it's not owlcat
>in 20 years PF will be dead
PF is kind of garbo but that's Paizo, not Owlcat who has been redeeming them if anything.
I do hope they stick with Warhammer over the Wokeness and Wiccans setting.
>but that's Paizo, not Owlcat
the point was that without PF fans no one is going to be interested in replaying and discussing PF1/2
owlcat is probably in a very bad situation financially tho see
why do you think they made such a rushed release?
literally broken to the point of the game being unbeatable at launch
they are running out of money and time
their first games rode the covid gaming wave, but they won't survive long now that it's out of breath and entertainment businesses are cutting costs like crazy [for a good reason]
>copied mechanics (terrible mechanics when they try going beyond copying), bad pacing, bad level design, bad encounter design, unnecessary and non-organic and poorly baked side-mechanics, technical issues, that's all they have to offer besides the IP
t. full of shit
Come back when you can ride stuff into battle in PoE. That' just one example.
>to the point of IWD2 being redeemed in EE which borrowed many features from PoE
Lol I think you're overstating how much they borrowed anon
Literally the only thing I can think of is they semi borrowed the "engagement" system for AoOs just without the UI effects, and this is really more just an elegant solution to making the system work for the limitation of the AI.
>It's ok to be wrong anon.
I recon this is your life's moto? :^)
it's not >less investment = more rpg immersion
it's >less tedious non-rpg mechanics = more rpg immersion
Broke into a wizard's tower from underneath an adjacent bath house, stealthed all the way to the top, acquired a disguise to let me explore it normally, then located a key which let me enter his vault, containing a very nice grimoire for Aloth. No quests or anything directing me here or telling me what to do, very nicely designed. Everything in this city is just great.
Nope, the magic shop owner is the apprentice of the very wizard we are robbing, and will give you a hint on how to infiltrate the tower, but it does not trigger a quest. There is a quest tied to the item you find in the vault, but it is not branching. You can get the item prior to even knowing about the quest, then find the people who want it. (so not only can you explore the tower, but then you have to find someone to pawn the artifact off on, making the quest work both backwards and forwards) You can recruit the shopkeeper as a companion after you do this by the way.
This one is started by two aumaua women near Arkemyr's manor, not Fassina. Nothing stops you from simply going in and stealing the tablet through the front door, and this is exactly what I did.
I don't see anyone else actually discussing anything. Just people pretending to like old games while spamming bethesda shit and having /misc/ arguments. I see people make a thread about games all the time, play the first 2 hours, then spend 4 months discussing off topic shit and not touching the game. RPGs are entirely a front for them to hang out with the very people they dislike. This place is abysmal.
He's talking about carnage which was nerfed/had it's scope reduced to the point where it was no longer a notable ability compared to PoE1 where it was the whole reason you played barbarian.
>remove barb's class defining ability and the only thing that made them worth playing in 1
why did Josh do that
Possibly balance (any on-hit weapon effect that was ok for another melee class was amazing for barbs in PoE1), possibly because people complained about int being the best attribute for barbarians.
?si=IvoQBR9mg34_bh-t
Why is the ost so insanely good? Imagine all the talent being wasted at Obsidian right now working on shit like avowed and outer worlds.
There was an unusually good thread on PoE yesterday on regular Ganker. I had to double check I wasn't on /vrpg/.
This thread has also been good. PoE is not the best game but I have a big soft spot for it, finished the megadungeon and two DLCs. I'm 2/3 of the way through PoE2 and I'm not sure why I stopped - will be returning to it after reading this thread. Also frick Larian, I hate their lolrandom writing and turn-based combat.
>NTA
No one believes that and I guess you do not want to discuss poe, I will not be making another Ganker thread again either.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>No one believes that
Believe what you wish. It’s incredibly cringe when people like you pretend there’s only two people that post here. >and I guess you do not want to discuss poe
I’m pretty sure I’ve said what I thought about the games earlier in the thread, it’s several weeks old. They’re OK games with some good ideas but mediocre execution.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Why would you come into a thread about games you do not like to complain about other unrelated games you do not like
5 months ago
Anonymous
It was a drive by shitpost because I thought it was funny you complained about another anon “pissing and shitting over bg3” because that’s precisely what Larian did. Now you’re derailing the thread to continue talking about it instead of talking about PoE, the subject my last post at least attempted to return to. What in particular about PoE would you like me to discuss, anon?
5 months ago
Anonymous
I would like you to go to another website and stop shitting up this one. Go to some place with permanently angry and unproductive people like codex and resetera, this would be a better fit for you.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>is still not talking about PoE instead of my repeated attempts to return to this topic of discussion >is angry about a throwaway shitpost and projecting this anger onto me, despite me calmly trying to engage in discussion about PoE
Yup, it’s /vrpg/ time
Look at morons killing a thread to cry about bg3. If idiots had their way we'd all be sitting in mud huts eating dirt because anything greater is simply degenerate and being a complete moron is le soulful and based.
Didn't Sawyer play through BG3 and say it was am excellent and groundbreaking game? A lot of the things undesirables put on a pedestal here are really mind boggling, like the praise of Arcanum when Avellone played and completely shit on it for 10 solid hours.
BG3 is an excellent game that is comprehensive to an unprecedented in the history of computerized roleplaying games. However, to call it groundbreaking is a stretch as there is not much it does that is truly *new*, it is an iteration of existing ideas and systems but executed more skillfully than in any comparable game.
I have poe1 and can‘t play it. I am just at the beginning and the only contact with crpg I have is dragon age1.
Not sure but it is really interesting but also boring with reading reading and stuff. I hope when I start again I will like it better
dao was my entry point too, i like rtwp because of it, and it was a very cinematic experience
poe1 does not have this cinematic experience but it has better rtwp gameplay or more party building possibilities
the story, lore is good in certain parts and at the end of the game, just power through the bad parts
Unironically fighter. Just dont build them as a pure tanks and they're great. Focus Dex/Int/Per/Might.
In Deadfire you have to multiclass because they lose their offensive power from 1 and fighter high level abilities suck but multiclass fighters are beasts.
rogue - positioning, using abilities to stop the enemy from running away or healing, dealing massive damage, hunt down the enemy rogues, priests, wizards
easily my favorite class
my favorite char in poe2 was a fighter/rouge multiclass with the rogue subclass being the one where the less health you had the more damage it did
I really liked single class Beguiler Cipher, managing your focus exclusively by casting CC was pretty engaging, and you always had to balance casting the most useful spell now vs something less useful but granting more focus for later.
Barb but only in 1 because soiyer removed based Carnage in 2.
Yeah Barbarians in Deadfire were more about taking advantage of recovery reduction/elimination, you hardly notice they're dealing AoE melee damage and Fighters with mob stance and clear out seem more built for the PoE1's Barbarian role. They multiclass great with almost anything though. Berserker/Fighter makes a great Barbarian, Berserker/Rogue can teleport around killing squishy enemies in one or two hits, under optimal conditions a Berserker/Skald can let out 5 Thrice Was She Wronged in 2 seconds.
cipher because you never run out of mana
chanter same and also because it manages to make a bard type actually fun
rouge because micro'ing to take out high-value targets never gets old
One is a gigachad that smashes through the enemy team to get to backline and knocks them out, other telports gets one attack in and then has to teleport out because rogue can't survive enemy focus for shit.
This is the rogue problem in PoE1, melee dps rogue can't survive in melee (on PotD) ranged rogue is just worse ranger.
For anyone going through Pillars of Eternity, just FYI, you can kill that cannibal c**t Icantha if you attack her enough. Yes, she heals quickly and infinitely. Yes, she interrupts your attacks with dialogue every time you attack her. Yes, she gets up from death even if you manage to reduce her HP to zero. But she actually has a limited number of revives.
Oh Pillars. The game that made me swear off backing games. I'm still fricking mad at Obsidian for Deadfire. >Promises major consequences for certain choices in the first game.
Ends up being fricking nothing. We didn't even get anything for Thaos' soul aside from a single throwaway line in the main game and dlc. >Waidwen
Motherfricking Eder's entire quest in the first game is him having an autistic shitfit over wondering why his brother joined Readceras and what Waidwen said to him. >But anon the whole point of his quest is that he accepts some questions won't have answers
No frick off. He directly speaks to Waidwen AND Eothas. No matter how much closure any homosexual would have if they are confronted with the answer they want they'd go for it. Someone actually asked a dev about this and the reason it wasn't included was because they forgot. >Tone
I like Pirates. I like sailing. I like the tropics. But somehow they made it shit. >Content
The entire game minus the critical path is entirely backer shit. You notice that? All the islands, all the portraits, all the bounties. Everything is backer content. Most of it is fricking shit too.
You know though I can forgive it all. All of it but the worst of it all is for how much Obsidian cried about publishers they were so quick to wanting to be bought the atto second they had some success. Frick Obsidian. Frick Pillars.
Actually, I didn't think about this before, but the contrast between Durance and the Devil's act is quite something. >Durance
walls of heavily-padded text that he wants hard to sound very cool and deep
it takes ages to read through and to exhaust his dialogue option and drag it all from him, and he gives out his SO IMPORTANT story in several steps making you wait for it
kinda overacting VA
>Devil of Caroc
her main background story is actually narrated rather succintly
no wannabe intellectual/spiritual depth, just an extremely believable tragedy that perfectly fits into the saint's war narrative and the events that are mentioned in the game elsewhere, her story is exactly that kind that is simplest and strongest
the actress actually nails the performance and actually manages to hit absurd levels of cool edge that Durance wishes he could jerk off to
I was really surprised. They did great job with White March. The White Forge had great atmosphere too. The black dude was overacting and not that great, but the mad metal mademoiselle - fricking close to perfect.
>stopped playing the first one shortly after the castle management stuff got introduced.
Same here. Reached the part where you unlock the keep management stuff and noped the frick out of the game.
I want to play a bunch of shiftless roamers randomly kicking notable amounts of ass, not act as glorified castellans. >inb4 hurr izz optional
>It took you 40 hours to complete the progue?
what gives you that idea?
>Reached the part where you unlock the keep management stuff and noped the frick out of the game. >41h
LOL
you either stole the screenshot, Black person
or you are unironically moronic
>Reached the part where you unlock the keep management stuff and noped the frick out of the game. >41h
i wonder if you're capable of conceiving a reality in which somebody restarts a game multiple times because it's not interesting, but they think maybe they just weren't in a crpg mood, and then spends most of the time playing exploring and not doing quest shit, and then spends more time exploring shit after being exposed to the feature that turns them off about it in an attempt to enjoy it otherwise.
4 months ago
Anonymous
nta but i have 43 hours and literally never beat raedric
painfully boring game, i just revisit it once a year to make sure im not missing anything
last time i played I had all rifles on party members to make a firing line which was kinda fun
>Reached the part where you unlock the keep management stuff and noped the frick out of the game. >41h
LOL
you either stole the screenshot, Black person
or you are unironically moronic
Kek. None.
Both take the worst aspects of mmos, round based and1 real time combat and forge it into one spiked vibrating horsedildo of boredom penetrating your ass DEEP while playing.
Absolute fricking abominations cloaked as rpgs.
Nwn 2 combat is less shit.
NWN2
LESS
SHIT
PoE 1&2 are legitimately some of the most boring crpg's ever played.
How come everyone thinks that?
PoE was unironically the first long CRPG I've ever finished and beaten completely. Where Baldurs Gate and Neverwinter, ToEE etc. failed, PoE succeeded.
How do you explain that if PoE is supposedly that boring and if that's the main critique? I thought BG1 was the most basic b***h standard cut out and outdated game I ever played. I didn't think the same thing about either Fallout when I played and finished them before playing PoE. I could name more examples, but this isn't just the same. You just have a different taste. Maybe you played the wrong class. That's what made me hate my experience in Icewind Dale and to a degree BG3.
I'm the second anon you quoted. I'm not really sure, I think it's highly subjective and varies from game to game, and sometimes just the mood from playthrough to playthrough. Over the years, re: the games you listed, BG1/2 I've beaten many times, Fallout 1/2 many times, NWN 1/2 I beat at least once, ToEE at least once, IWD1 at least once, and IWD2 I've bounced off quite a few times, I'm actually just now at the end of the game and about to complete it for the first time, after playing it on and off for 20 years. Sometimes you're just not into a game. vampire the Masquerade: Redemption, the first time I tried playing it, I nope'd out, and came back later and got into it and fell in love with it. DOS2, first time I tried playing it I couldn't stand it, ended up getting into it and liking it and playing it through several times (once all the way, once about 90% of the way, once about 50% of the way, I reckon, along with many false starts)
PoE I beat back in the day when it came out and I thought it was alright, I really only struggled to get through it on replays. I've finished it a second time since then, and imported that into PoE2 and finished that game the one and only time I tried playing it. But I've said "I should play PoE again, I have X Y Z idea for a cool new party" and then it's fun for a while while I'm still leveling up and scrabbling for items, but then I lose interest at some point about halfway. Always happens. Maybe I'll give it another go soon.
BG3 I was really excited for, played it and finished it, ended up hating it and think it's a bad game, for what that's worth. Thanks for listening to my blog
I feel like with each passing day my hatred of fallout nitwits is further justified, I may stop recommending that series altogether to people. Everyone who likes this series is an absolute moron and would have been better off not playing rpgs at all.
Imagine going through your life seething like this every day about other people's opinions about video games
Fallout 1 is recommended to beginners because it is a hyper shallow moron game that is impossible to frick up. It is a 3/10 game at best, and even so it is several leagues above every other game in the series. Complexity has been traded for ease of use, and even so Wastleland 1 is far more quick and snappy, so changes are entirely McDonald's kiosk tier dumbing down in the name of accessibility. You can scroll through this catalogue and you will find every single fallout thread is of extremely low quality, with reddit memes, wojaks, and ecelebs being the central focus by far. Curse this moronic series and the people who put it on a pedestal, they are a cancer.
>pretending to be a local schizo to spout absolutely moronic opinions and completely ruin his reputation
Kinda based, anon. You manage to sound smart, while saying obviously idiotic things.
The cognitive dissonance in this post is so thick that it's almost palpable. I could almost reach out and grab it, then beat you to death with it.
rent free
>How come everyone thinks that?
Because vrpg is shitposting general
Even more so than v
Most people who do this didn't even play the game
I got close to finishing it but burned out after WM1 and the middle of Act 3. It definitely is better than the other games you mentioned, although I still honestly hate RTWP.
>How come everyone thinks that?
There's nothing about the game that's particularly captivating. The setting is extremely bland and devoid of soul (funnily enough) and mechanically the game is not very fun, it doesn't feel like a crpg it feels like a bootleg mmo. It also doesn't help that the character creation is very limited, and no I'm not talking about appearances (though that is an issue) but rather stats. Mechanically the stats don't change enough about how your character functions to warrant doing multiple playthroughs or experiment with different builds because there aren't enough differences. Might is both for physical power as well as casting and you'll be pumping that on most characters regardless of what you play. It doesn't help that the magic system is very bare bones and none of the spells are interesting, most of them are just damage dealing with little alternative effects.
>It also doesn't help that the character creation is very limited, and no I'm not talking about appearances (though that is an issue) but rather stats.
Playing PoE with a full custom party is an entirely different experience from with companions. I don't think making special snowflake characters is all that important in a party focused game, as most variables come from party composition and how characters mesh together and distribute gear amongst themselves. There is a plethora of gear that doesn't alter stats, and it's generally the best gear in the game.
>It doesn't help that the magic system is very bare bones and none of the spells are interesting, most of them are just damage dealing with little alternative effects.
This is true, but it's also true for bg1 and 2, worse so actually. The way to open up bosses and protect yourself against debuffs is complex by comparison, even when held up against SCS.
PoE's combat system is very rigid. Most of its potential lies in how it meshes with the geometry of map design and in preparing for fights, but like 80% of the main questline is designed like they were afraid of gatekeeping people, and doesn't use this. The main game in general feels incredibly short and rushed.
>This is true, but it's also true for bg1 and 2, worse so actually.
Even BG1 and 2 have a better magic system than Pillars, and that's utterly sad. I legitimately do not understand how Pillars can be appealing to anyone at all, there is nothing remotely compelling about these games.
>Even BG1 and 2 have a better magic system than Pillars
It objectively does not.
Pillars absolutely appeals to autistic crpg fans, but doesn't have soul. You have to be both autistic and soulless to truly appreciate the series.
>soul
Buzzword for people too stupid to say what they really mean.
A certain… je ne sais pas
Perchance?
Yet you know exactly what it means
It means "aethestically similar to goyslop i was programmed to enjoy by commercials when I was a 8 year old milennial"
Imagine watching commercials. Imagine watching TV
Either zoomer or moronic.
Nah. When I was 8, I was reading grown-up books and playing Mechwarrior 2, Command and Conquer, and The Dig. Literally, imagine watching TV and watching commercials. Lol
>reading grown-up books
what does this even mean
You have to be 18 to post here.
Answer the question. What "grown up books" were you reading as an 8 year old, because I'm getting the impression you stopped growing at 8, mentally.
>being lectured on intellectual maturity by someone who watches television
Whew lad. To answer your question, I remember reading Jurassic Park and The Hot Zone and they both scared the shit out of me.
Well shut up then homie
brah you are arguing with a person who opened up with a stale pasta
he isn't here for a genuine discussion
>How do you explain that if PoE is supposedly that boring and if that's the main critique? I thought BG1 was the most basic b***h standard cut out and outdated game
You nailed it anon.
You were a homosexualy zoomer when PoE was released. It was your first proper fantasy RPG, so you enjoyed the setting.
BG1 was many people's first RPG, but it basically defined games like PoE so of course it's going to be derivative.
This is like a zoomer trying to watch Citizen Kane and not understanding why it's considered one of the best films ever when it's full of tropes and cheesy as frick.
>implying bg1 is the Citizen Kane of late 90s crpgs
Poor taste can be cured with a bullet to the back of the head
That would be F1, and you intentionally ignored that other anon actually
enjoyed it
>BG1 was many people's first RPG
Exactly why it's remembered so fondly
It's not a bad game, in fact it's quite good, but it's way overrated
t. a boomer that replayed both poe1 and bg1 within the last 2 years and had more fun out of poe
Stay mad
Because you are a newbie zoomer and can't into older games, it seems.
See
>NWN2
>LESS
>SHIT
Really makes you think
Nothing is worse than aurora engine combat, so you can safely disregard that person's post and any posts they make in the future. Not much to think about there.
TES exists.
I am solely referring to rpgs.
I wouldn't call that combat, really.
You're legit moronic.
PoE2 has some of the best class design, system design and combat design out of any CRPG to date.
The problem with the PoE games stem from some strange decisions (like the second one with the boat) and sticking to some very bland companions (they should've dropped Aloth and Pallegina like rocks after the first game).
Pallegina is fine in the first game. It's in the second where she's just such a whiny drag. Eder is honestly blander and more boring than either of them.
Eder is inoffensive and the closest to the "bro" character the series has, which is why he gets a pass. But he's not great or interesting.
But PoE1&2 suffered from the same problem most modern CRPGs do, bland one not characters and not enough variety.
That is frankly one of BG2's strengths even today. The varied cast.
>That is frankly one of BG2's strengths even today. The varied cast
Is it?
70% of bg2 companions annoy the frick out of me ngl
Naturally I hate that companion quests are the most significant portion of side-questing
They don't have romance, so they are bad.
2 has romance.
>They don't have romance
Good. I hate that shit. "Romance" options should not belong in video games.
PoE 1
+ liked the toned down mood better
+ companions imo are more interesting and there are a lot of them
+ endless paths is a cool dungeon
- no multiclassing
PoE 2
+ much better production values, visuals are stunning, full VA
+ overall more though out and polished system
+ actually meaningful subclasses, multiclassing, and it's fricking great, you can come up with all sorts of crazy roleplay combos and make them actually work up to Veteran for sure;
+ turn based mode is an option, it breaks the system because it is fundamentally a real time system, but it's there if TB is an absolute must for you
+ you get to choose the class of joining companions (out of 2 pure and 1 multiclass option)
+ cool optional endgame content in form of very challenging encounters and ultra-bosses
+ imo DLCs are even better than the WM for poe1
- less companions, most are imo worse compared to total bros from 1 in both likeability and writing quality, also has sidekicks which are like companions lite (think BG1 not 2) some of those are very cool
- setting can be off-putting for some
- ship stuff is pretty basic, don't expect much
Seems like 2 is pretty much the winner, and it probably is the better game objectively speaking, but the superior atmosphere and companions of PoE1 make up for it so it's a draw for me
> but the superior atmosphere and companions of PoE1
I agree that overall PoE1 had a better atmosphere, but the Caribbean style setting of PoE2 was great. One of the most unique settings that I have come across in CRPGs.
>less companions, most are imo worse compared to total bros from 1 in both likeability and writing quality, also has sidekicks which are like companions lite (think BG1 not 2) some of those are very cool
Yep. Eder, for example, went from a chill dude bro to a marvel quipping animalgay.
>imo DLCs are even better than the WM for poe1
This I personally disagree with. I wasn't a fan of the short form dlcs of PoE2, and none of them really compared to WM imo. Some people were shilling Beast of Winter as one of the best expansions they have played in general, and I am not sure what about it makes people think that.
Poe2 dlcs are well integrated into the narrative of the main story while wm is an old school style expantion pack, also sure gives off lonelywood vibes
>Yep. Eder, for example, went from a chill dude bro to a marvel quipping animalgay.
This is what he is in poe1.
Fair enough, that is true. Still, it was nowhere as bad as PoE2.
>imo WM is too cramped with [quite challenging] combat
Agreed, Sawyer talked about this when he did one of his PoE1 retrospectives on YouTube. He has always had an issue of making crapped, challenging, and common encounters in dungeons since IWD. He remedied it alot in PoE2.
Still, I thought the whole setup of how dangerous the Battery became was cool, and the philosophical discussion with Abydon's aspects and Ondra was really fitting. Plus the music for white march was really good. The tavern theme there still lives rent free in my head.
>not only that but stories of DLCs fit perfectly with the whole narrative
Here is my point of contention though, I don't like how much BoW reveals about what happened in the lore. A huge part of the narrative and mystery of PoE1 is exactly wtf happened in the Saint's War. Why did Eder's brother defect, how did the events exactly happen, was Weidwen actually divine, what role did the gods play in it? Same thing with PoE2 and Ukaizo. They just give the mystery away in BoW.
However, I do think that confronting your past in BoW through Iovara was cool though, I liked that part.
one more thing I now remember
I don't like that WM changes the title screen :/
>They just give the mystery away in BoW
I can see where this is coming from but I didn't feel like the mystery was gone
answered questions lead to more questions at least that's what I felt
>dlcs
imo WM is too cramped with [quite challenging] combat
and it is a completely separate story ... and it's long as frick (then again it's spread into part 1and 2)
while 2's dlcs manage to provide both challenging encounters, and exploration/narrative progression
not only that but stories of DLCs fit perfectly with the whole narrative
>what happens to souls who don't return to the wheel
>the fall of Ukaizo
>the pinnacle of the Saint's War
>hey now Wael wants an avatar to do some shenanigans as well
it's all so fitting that a lot of players don't even realize they are playing DLC content
also for me personally I just really dig the whole death cult thing in BOW
>Beast of Winter
That would be me. When I first finished it it was a 8/10. Now I would give it 7/10, bc it is short. Like 3h overall.
eder's and a lot of the companions dialogue were heavy handed. I did like Durance, he had that based schizo energy the party needs. talking about smiting people and killing them, based as hell.
the only redeeming quality of Eder for me was speccing him w/ guns so I could have a use of the good gun weapons. I gave him the pirate hat at a Stat loss and I would construct most encounters so that the target was weakened just in time for Eder to pull up the blunder buss and I would say "tally ho, lads" just before executing that npc. that's when the game became fun for me
+ actually meaningful subclasses, multiclassing, and it's fricking great, you can come up with all sorts of crazy roleplay combos and make them actually work up to Veteran for sure
I've got a freak all-multiclass planned for next time I get the itch, and I only play on PoTD, Balanceman's virtue is any combo can work as long as you understand the ruleset pic unrelated
Frick, I really want PoE3. Makes me think what they could've improved on. Where they would've situated it more than anything. They did needlessly fall into the full VA trap because Larian did it for probably a fraction of the cost.
>multiclass
I've played 1, but not 2. Had a question about the multiclassing.
Are multiclass abilities hard-capped to a certain tier, or is it a matter of just getting enough XP to unlock the highest tier abilities?
Iirc you miss out on the highest couple tiers of abilities of each class if you multiclass. Been a while.
>Are multiclass abilities hard-capped to a certain tier
Yes
And unlocking tiers is behind a pure class by a level or two
2 because Avellone wasn't on the writing team
People always overestimate Avellone's involvement in most games he's worked on, giving him false credit.
2 mostly has better combat, and has much better builds and itemization (provided you don't pick one of the shafted weapon types, there are two unique poleaxes, one is broken, and the other has class restrictions, but hey at least we got 50 sabres). 1 is better at everything else.
Neither,both POE are one of the few games that actively hate fun,"playing" these games feels like a chore.
I already have a job and the last thing i want from a game is it to feel like a chore or be boring and POE does both.
PoE is nowhere near as bad with the chore and meta fricking as Owlcat games are. You will struggle with a fight on normal and reddit Black folk will tell you about their totally intended 10k turn one damage wipe strat and how that's the best and only way to play the game.
Owlcat can't write.
If I'm supposed to spend 70 hours in a game the story, lore and characters need to be good.
At least Obsidian delivers on that front.
>Obsidian delivers on that front
>Member great statue in your castle?
>it is alive now and used by the dead god
>and you are braindead
>but are raised by god of death to chase that statue
>seems important, doesn't it?
>anyway, how about exploring the archipelago and doing faction quest instead of finding said god?
Modern devs can't understand that story needs breaks for players to explore the world. Start of Morrowind main quest was superb cause your handler plainly tells you to frick off and explore the world, and then major part of MQ is slow without putting sense of urgency on player.
Despite time limits Kingmaker avoided that fate because there is more than enough time between main plot points that you can explore whole map as you wish.
>instead of finding said god?
never understood this """critique"""
what's your idea of finding a giant statue marching several leagues below the sea
apart from sailing and exploring the archipelago and trying to find clues
time limits Kingmaker avoided that fate because there is more than enough time between main plot points that you can explore whole map as you wish.
I disagree, Kingmaker felt episodic as hell, like I was watching a bad Sunday morning cartoon.
>"You finished your current allotment of main story content and defeated the big bad of the week!"
>"Tune in next time after you do you your gimmicky card game management sim, and exploring bloated maps filled with annoying encounters!"
The kingdom management was moronic and another time waster in the bloat that was that game. MB Warband did this concept way better.
, how about exploring the archipelago and doing faction quest instead of finding said god?
This was the absolute dumbest story incongruity I've seen in some time. I think that's also what annoys me in POE2 beyond the unfinished boats and rampant self important hipster leftism.
>POE are one of the few games that actively hate fun,"playing" these games feels like a chore.
Could not agree more. The writing is good as most obsidain projects are but wtf the combat is so slow and fricking boring.
>combat is so slow and fricking boring
skill issue
unironically
yeah they kinda took the fun out of making the character, levelling up and fighting, with the "mechanically best system" as some autists like to say here.
That said, I did enjoy it at times. When my cleric with not great combat stats equipped firebrand and managed to deal some serious damage to the goblinoid critter groups in Caed Nua (I jumped into the drake pit while not being that well equipped and low level and had fun challenge fighting my way back on little rations/rests, consumables and spells).
I usually enjoy the silly pathfinder combat and looney character builds in Kingmaker/WotR more tho. Frick perfect systems, frick balance. I want childish enjoyment.
But PoE 1 is VERY worth playing despite these qualms, IMHO. Companions are nice, setting is surprisingly interesting, despite how it often feels a bit tryhard at first. Still would be improved by removing the firearms, but it manages to survive that affliction. Didn't get to PoE yet.
P.S. Durance? Tch. Devil of Caroc is the 10/10 of the game. Eder is prince of comfy but the pot is just amazing.
>I usually enjoy the silly pathfinder combat and looney character builds in Kingmaker/WotR more tho. Frick perfect systems, frick balance. I want childish enjoyment
You did not play deadfire, or at the very least you did not understand it. This thread has become a very dumb echo chamber.
1 was better in terms of tone, writing, and characters. 2 had better gameplay. I preferred 1. The DLCs were the best bits of both games.
Neither, both are pure garbage. Imagine having the knowledge, access to resources of 20 years worth of advancement in the industry. And still being worse than baldurs gate 1/2.
1 is the better game imo, its far better paced and has better encounter design overall, people complain about 1 being boring but its much worse in the sequel.
You will go long stretches of doing menial shit, back and forth loading between locations before you even reach the ship exploration, only to find out the exploration is pretty meh
after playing some Divinity it feels like the character creation and beginning was done by complete amateurs
yeah Pillars looks prettier I give you that but video games aren't only paintings to be looked at
combat would probably have been better too if the environment wasn't just decoration
to each their own
personally couldn't play more than 2 hours of each DOS entry
>character creation
but this is really surprising
care to elaborate? in dos games you are pretty much just choosing appearance + class, and a lot hints that both these choices aren't going to truly matter much
I unironically got bored by DOS1 & 2 even after just a few hours. Absolutely nothing was good in those games and the writing was below subpar.
I got burned so hard by DOS that I still haven't touched BG3.
I hated DOS and I absolutely love BG3.
I hated DOS and I absolutely hate BG3
>I got burned so hard by DOS that I still haven't touched BG3.
If you disliked DOS, particularly DOS2, then you will almost certainly dislike BG3. It's essentially DOS2 + 5th ed DnD + high production values for the graphics and animations. Ignore the contrarian trolls pretending they liked BG3, it's AAA goyslop and they're just farming (yous)
It's really a massive improvement over DOS and the systems are polar opposites. BG3 has horizontal progression because it's dnd, whereas DOS has vertical progression like diablo.
one by a mile. the story was way more compelling.
I consider PoE to be a thoroughly misunderstood and flawed curiosity that is nonetheless worth playing. I am wrapping up my PoE1 replay now and starting PoE2 soon.
do we get to vote on the avatar this time around mahiroposter?
I’ve finished PoE I think twice over the years but holy shit I’ve started it up and played halfway through and gotten bored and dropped it dozens and dozens of times. It always seems like a better idea to play it, than playing it actually is. Some of the systems are decent and I’d agree that it’s a mixture of good ideas with poor implementation (I like that they attempted unsuccessfully to make every stat important for every char, and I like the system of miss graze hit crit, including for spells) but the writing and world building just fall flat and it all feels amateurish and generic. Hard to care about it.
The number 1 problem with the numbers behind poe is the linear progression. This never works.
Is this shit realistically playable with a controller?
Only if youre the ceo of Microsoft games division.
The only games playable with a controller are arcade/console genres like fighting, racing, and platforming games. Trying to play PC genres like shooters, RPGs, or strategy games with a controller is lol
DOS2 is playable with a controller tho
I would argue that only movement-shooters and RTS really require a mouse due to how core gameplay works
there is nothing inherent to crpgs that require M+K
inventory management
you for real?
how many games have you played with a gamepad?
many. inventory management is always better with a mouse and keyboard.
>RPGs are unplayable with a controller
>a specific aspect of an RPGs is a little more convenient with M+K
based goalpost mover
different anon. but yeah, people use unplayable as hyperbole for unwieldy.
Jesus Christ lol, who wrote this guy?
Anyways, the siege of cragholdt is quite possibly the first outdoor area in the entire game that has been genuinely well designed. Incredibly dangerous encounters here and you'll want to sneak around picking off patrols so you don't aggro half the camp. Positioning can make or break a fight so you'll want to scout around and check every angle, then attack very carefully. This is a good map so far. On a side note, I'm at the point of no return in the main campaign, not much to say about it as the whole third act was a bit half baked and I feel like I'd be retreading complaints I've already made, so time to mop up the big side quests and white march part 2.
>Jesus Christ lol, who wrote this guy?
C*lifornians
>NPC says "balls"
Someone call the president. It's time to nuke cuckifornia.
>Player character named after 11 year old anime girl, also uses anime girl picture for portrait
Based. Take that SJWs.
>It's time to nuke cuckifornia.
Based
>Player character named after 11 year old anime girl, also uses anime girl picture for portrait
This part is extremely cringe though
>This part is extremely cringe though
Go back to tumblr, dangerhair. She's my 11 year old wife. No man will ever want you.
>filename
Cringe intensifies
>troony instantly defaults to projecting
pottery
bro your name is fricking Hachikuji lmao you have no right to shit on anyone's writing
Deadfire. The tropical islands and pirate setting was fairly unique.
1 is better overall but 2 had the more interesting setting
In Pillars 1 & 2 I made a full custom party with unique portraits I found online. This made the game a thousand times more enjoyable for me than dealing with the cringe pre-written characters e.g. "Pallegrina"
THERE
IS
NO
SUCH
THING
AS
A
BLACK
FEMALE
PALADIN
Based and correct. Paladins are humans only. I am the same way, I generally play all cRPGs with a custom party of generics exclusively nowadays.
>mom, can we have Deionarra?
>No, we have Deionarra at home
Sawyer explains to us how a lore accurate phylactery works while I break his encounter with Sagani's wolf. As I have have access to incredibly powerful scrolls now, the lich goes to down, eventually. The hold is mostly just a boss rush, but being able to walk around and talk to people before beating them to death is at least interesting.
What the frick
Is it attacking enemies during a dialog?
No, I'm using the dog in place of what would traditionally be a rogue for pulling. Since it cannot initiate dialogue I have to attack to trigger the dialogue sequence. This party in general is very subpar for potd. People praise cipher and paladin a lot, but honestly the strongest class by far is a druid, on higher difficulties, but I already steamrolled the game with one of those so I decided to play like this and do work arounds with wonky class mechanics and scrolls. Just finished endless paths, I really don't understand the praise for this place since the dungeons are mediocre compared to the game's peaks. I'm really curious as to what floors stood out to people because I'm not seeing it at all. Moving onto white march 2.
Why do you view games with such consciousness of what other people think about them? It's really strange to me.
Because I am discussing the game.
Yeah, but just say what you think about the game and not what other people thought. It makes it much more readable and interesting.
I disagree, there are standards in game design and its important to understand where people are coming from in how they percieve it. I don't see how upvoting and downvoting games through entirely subjective posts is anything but worthless white noise.
It's absolutely not important to constantly compare your experiences with everyone else's, especially when human intelligence is so varied. Your posts all come off as a huge chip on your shoulder. Very boring stuff.
Sounds like cope.
Why?
paladin carried me through early game, but I can see druid being better mis/late-game
both. start with 1, and import save to 2.
I’ve tried to do this dozens of times and only succeeded once. PoE1 is such a slog and I always get bored halfway.
i did this, and it's how I learned that I unknowingly skipped like half the quests in the first game. I was sitting there talking to the deity in the beginning and she was like "Oh, you let Raedric become an undead tyrant and terrorize gilded vale, that's cool I guess" and then she went on about the second half of the white march quest which I didn't even know existed. I ended up throwing out my real save entirely and just choosing my options manually.
>choosing my options manually
I tried that once but aborted the playthrough after 20m. The manual option costs like 30m.
Best modern crpgs because no romances.
I struggle to progress in PoE2 because it overwhelms me once you finish the starter island and can go anywhere you want. Aside from that, it's very obviously the better game in almost every conceivable way.
>Aside from that, it's very obviously the better game in almost every conceivable way.
Counterpoint: poe1 has 99% less sharkBlack folk
can we play the second without playing the first?
Yes, but the second honestly is not an improvement over the first so you probably shouldn't.
No, it’s a direct continuation of the character and plot from the first.
Yes, every sequel narrative makes allowances for people new to the series, since they don't want to turn anyone away. That said, you'll get more out of it from playing the first and they are so similar in age and style that I don't see why you'd bother skipping the first one.
much better than Kingmaker/Wrath, story, system, encounters, graphics
I can't even get passed character creation in Pillars without falling asleep, the hell are you on about? They should prescribe this game to patients with narcolepsy, along with Starfield.
>literally confesses to not playing the game
then what are you doing in this thread?
you don't have anything to add to the discussion
nor on what is good or what is bad about the game
I don't understand why people complain about stats and shit when there's enchants that increase weapon damage by 80% and shit, same for armor. This means you can play the game with any weapon you want if you like it. Most of the big improvements to your base performance will be through enchants so you can focus on items that give unique abilities or procs. This is very remiscent of 3.5e crafting, except instead of your Holy Axiomatic +9 glaive outperforming anything you can find, you can simply improve whatever weapon you like. The main issue is that a lot of good items are in the DLC or endless paths, so the itemization spread feels shitty. Additionally, the might wizard complaint is stupid and I could care less about what "makes sense" in a game as long as the logic is internally consistent throughout the game, which is to say I can simply accept it as the reality in this universe. Oh, and the guys with the gold nameplates? Just don't talk to them. It's extremely unfortunate they replaced all the background NPCs with donut steels but it is what it is. I'd really like to see how the people who interpret the game as boring are playing.
It's mostly minmaxxers who do not like PoE's system. Stats in PoE increase on a flat curve, while stats in DnD grow exponentially. PoE punishes excessive build autism, and alot of DnD system fans don't like that. That, plus complaints of not being able to buff before battles autistically.
it's boring, period
>I don't understand why people complain about stats and shit when there's enchants that increase weapon damage by 80% and shit, same for armor
You're not understanding the issue isn't in how to maximize your damage but in build variety. There are so little stats that do anything meaningful and so as a result too many characters end up functioning entirely the same.
>build variety
But anon, it supposed to be like bg1 and 2, which does not have builds at all.
Another idiot that didn't actually play the game
I've played through PoE 1 shortly after release and never touched it again.
I do think my overall impression of it might have been too harsh, as there are genuinely good things about it, although the good things are heavily flawed as a result of design decisions).
I do not like the attribute system, and I really, fundamentally disagree with Sawyer's balance™ design philosophy.
I'm gonna replay PoE 1 again. I expect my overall impression of it to improve, but I doubt I'll like it more than Underrail or Pathfinder.
PoE 2 on the other hand I hated even more. While it did make a few, very minor steps forward in terms of design, it was also a bigger step back in many ways.
Oh, and while I haven't played BG3, I would consider both Pillars to be superior to the Divinity games.
Don't @ me LariaBlack folk.
Boy, you should probably really really really play bg3.
BG3 is definitely worse than either pillars game.
>t. played and finished bg3 and both pillars games
No, and there is invaluable data to be found as to why bg3 succeeded as a modern successor to bg while poe ultimately failed.
>there is invaluable data to be found as to why bg3 succeeded
Reddit and “lol you can frick a bear” marketing to degenerate coomers who want a fully motion captured dating sim?
>as a modern successor to bg while poe ultimately failed
Neither are a successor to Baldurs gate. Baldurs gate was a self contained story that was conclusively wrapped up and finished. BG3 is a soulless corporate slop reanimated corpse of a “reboot”, it shares nothing but the name, which was chosen solely for cynical appeal to nostalgia bait, and everyone knows it. Pillars at least tried to ape the style but didn’t pretend to be the same thing, which is more honest.
>Neither are a successor to Baldurs gate.
They are, as a mission statement, both games are aiming to achieve the modern equivalent of what baldurs gate was in the past.
>which was chosen solely for cynical appeal to nostalgia bait
Funny you should say this, where Sawyer and Swen differ is mainly Sawyer trying to build on old titles mechanically whereas Swen states he is trying to capture the feeling of the nostalgia generated by old titles. The latter is an admission that old titles aren't necessarily as great as we percieve, and that newer titles should aim for ideals rather than quantitative improvements.
They're both half right. You should expect both mechanical improvements, and recapturing the feeling, in a title that is purported to be a spiritual successor. Fallout 1 was the spiritual successor to Wasteland. Grim Dawn was the spiritual successor to Diablo 2. Prey (2017) was the spiritual successor to System Shock 2.
Pillars was targeted at boomers who play BG1 and BG2. It captured some superficial elements of the original games, like the camera angle, a six-man party, the mouse cursor, but it failed to capture the spirit and soul of the original games. It did attempt to build on them mechanically, to varying degrees of success (some good ideas, and some moronic ideas as well), and it is obviously a modern attempt at that style of game, with modern improvements (the most immediately obvious improvement is overhauling the inventory system and the looting system, which is IMO the clunkiest part of replaying the originals today), but it failed to recapture the soul (ironic, given the plot)
BG3 was targeted at Critical Role watching zoomers who never played the originals, but know that they're supposed to be good. It not only failed to capture the soul of the originals, it comes across as a meme-y satire of them. It has "remember X? remember Y?" references, and nothing more. It doesn't attempt to build on the originals, it's merely DOS3, and in many ways, it's inexplicably a step backwards from DOS3 (the hirelings, the interface, the inventory/vendor systems, the world tooltips, all somehow shittier than an older game on the same engine)
I honestly can't think of what BG3 was even supposed to have done well, besides having a big budget and high production values, and effective marketing. It's certainly popular and sold well, but that's it.
didn't read that
but I feel you lil' homie
I'm happy for you, or sorry for your loss
whatever
>They're both half right
No, you can't build on what bg2 is because IE is a bad engine and the games are a product of its limitations, and any game released now following those standards will be subpar. This is called regression, and it's stupid and infantile.
IE is a fantastic engine
>beautiful maps
>fast loading times
>easily moddable
>controlling the party feels very fluid
>supports cool shit like clones and sequencers
On the other hand we have bloated unityshit and larianslop with soulless UI, toilet chain and no day/night cycle.
I feel like this post was written by a 65 iq turd worlder.
>Reddit and “lol you can frick a bear” marketing to degenerate coomers who want a fully motion captured dating sim?
If this was the reason, Dragon Ages past Origins and ME:Andromeda would be hits and Bioware wouldn't be in process of being put down by EA.
Cultivating co-op play, good graphics, and years of marketing?
>years of marketing?
I have honestly seen more rogue trader ads in a week than I have ever seen bg3 ads.
I'm talking more word of mouth, I don't see ads on the internet at all and haven't in years. Just it being in EA for however many years is far better reach. That's just one component anyway. The main thing, IMO, is the co-op. It's why DOS2 did well. Developers should pay attention to that.
you guys have adds on the internet?
Literally every single piece of information fed to you is dictated by an algorithm.
This isn't true, though I get your point, but this has nothing to do with using an ad-blocker.
Regardless of whether or not you use ad blocker you are being solely informed by algorithms generated by megacorporations. This means anyone too young to remember 9/11 is basically a soulless automaton.
It really depends on your browsing habits, percentage of time online, and who you talk with in general.
See, I haven't seen one ad of rt, but heavy marketing for bg3 for the last 9 months.
>do not like the attribute system, and I really, fundamentally disagree with Sawyer's balance™ design philosophy.
Hopefully this can lead to an interesting discussion
Can you please elaborate further on both points?
What specifically about the system you dislike and what is
>Sawyer's balance™ design philosophy
And in what way you disagree
>Sawyer's balance™ design philosophy
Not him, but I think people mean the "no build left behind" mentality and the focus on symmetrical design. This along with the aggressive patching post-release to combat player inventiveness leads to a quite sterile, almost MMO feel. It's really a matter of taste.
>almost MMO feel
What mmo plays like this? Your completely misinterpreting the balance philosophy, the entire point was to make deviations from trinity structure functional, ironically the opposite of an mmo.
Almost all MMO's have a propensity to desire symmetrical balance and to constant clean up after player's ingenuity, since their players constantly whine about each other's characters being OP or not. It's the mindset of a multiplayer game put onto a singleplayer one, PoE is a homebrew tabletop system and it carries some of that multiplayer baggage as cargo cult design.
So your complaint is not that it's like an mmo, but that it's like actual tabletop, which is just a more malleable pen and paper expression of video game systems anyways? The game isn't broken enough is your issue? If you just want to be handed the win without thinking or playing then say what you really mean and stop trying to act like it's the games fault.
You seem to have difficulty understanding my posts. Here's some help. I find symmetrical balance to be sterile. I don't find RPGs to be difficult at all. Multiplayer concerns are not important in singleplayer party games.
You just wanted to be handed a free win without trying by copy-pasting broken builds and you're blaming the game. You're an actual real life pseud LMAO
Already making shit up? I accept your concession.
>here's what I really mean
>repeat exactly what he just posted
Incorrect.
This has to be one of the stupidest posts I have ever seen there. Do you even realize what you just typed?
Explain it to me.
Why should anyone reply to someone like you? It's very clear what your issue is and I'm sure you'll throw a moron tantrum and shit up the thread now. I can't come to your house and euthanize you, so the issue is not solvable.
You seem to love to reply to me though.
Word salad
>MMO's have a propensity to desire symmetrical balance and to constant clean up after player's ingenuity
this really deviates from the questions I was asking ta, but is interesting as well
is this really what you feel PoE's le balance is about?
or are you just salty a build you specifically came up with early after release got nerfed?
I'm asking because it really seem like an ingenious jab at the game
After all it does have stronger and weaker builds, it can have highly optimized builds, OP even
and no one is trying to remove these unbalances altogether
nothing on par with what you are describing as MMOesque
making more builds viable on lower difficulties =/= restricting players from making optimized builds that are stronger
and if some build was OP _with too little effort_ due to an unintended error, I don't see harm in correcting the error and nerfing whatever is making it OP
after all what's the fun of making an OP build if it's centered around a simple trick?
It's really about the feeling. That's why I said it's a matter of taste. It just feels sterile and reactive, like they are trying to anticipate me and react to me, so the whole system plays out like dev vs. player. It's not about wanting to be OP, it's about being the type of person even using that word at all, or not.
>It's really about the feeling
It's really not though. This is something dumb people say.
It's just something non-autistic people say. Don't worry about it.
>It's really about the feeling.
agree to disagree then
but I hope you understand this is were any implications of possible objectivity are dropped as well
What you value in your entertainment products isn't objective, yes. Otherwise there would be the One True Design™.
by all means
what you value in entertainment is your own deal
on the other hand that's not what we were discussing though, was it?
genres being farther or closer is not only objective it is measurable [even if it is too tedious to do in a form of an online argument]
and a game having or not having features of a certain genre is objective as well
you are free to like or dislike whatever you want
but if you are coming into a discussion and dismissing any argument because of the way you ""feel"" about something
there is nothing to left other than just stop a fruitless discussion
so have a good day
I wouldn't call it an mmo feel.
To me the main issue with the attributes is they feel more like an arpg system like a path of exile build, and the way in which stats overlap detracts from the exclusivity of typical rpg systems. For instance if you want a wizard that does big damage spells you simultaneously make one that is incredibly physically strong. If you want a barbarian that does massive aoe they are simultaneously highly intelligent. There is no physically weak old man that can vaporize a building, no dumb as a rock barbarian that cleaves 10 feet around him through physical strength.
It's like a system made to be exploited through specific builds rather than forcing choices in a classic d&d statline. It's exactly like path of exile where you build with one specific strategy in mind.
Path of Exile is an MMO in my eyes. That's the kind of thing I was thinking of.
>There is no physically weak old man that can vaporize a building
To reach extremely high stats you would have to dump CON and RES, which would result in a frail character, valid for ranged but not melee.
He'd go down to a breeze but could detonate you by casting fist. That's still immense physical strength. It kind of highlights one of the oversights in that might is simultaneously str, int, and wis in d&d but con is still just con. It's like they tried to make a custom system but stopped half way.
>It kind of highlights one of the oversights in that might is simultaneously str, int, and wis in d&d but con is still just con. It's like they tried to make a custom system but stopped half way.
But int and wis didn't do anything in bg1 and 2. At all. Now instead we have damage stats spread more evenly across might, dexterity, and perception. Someone who doesn't focus on all of these won't be very good at damage dealing at all. And again the muscle wizards complaint is silly, just look at the lich in
, he's one of the most important wizards in the game and he's ripped like Skeletor. Just accept it as how the universe works.
But the lore of a wizard in Pillars says nothing about physical strength being a component of magical power. So, this isn't how the universe works, it's how the game system is built, which is actually at odds with the setting, creating disjointed character fantasies.
Anon, Concelhaut is ripped because he worked out at the library. It's entirely consistent with the universe.
>which is actually at odds with the setting
it's not
show me a in-lore muscle-wizard by stats who is portrayed to be a weakling
there is more to being a wizard then simply physical strength, so it's not a requirement for a powerful wizard to be buffed as shit (although some are)
Wizards are researchers in the lore. Might is just a gamification composite stat that they didn't separate during ability checks properly.
>Wizards are researchers in the lore
does that somehow restrict a person to be of an above average physic?
some of the greatest classical greek scholars were ripped
some of the best Renaissance old masters of art were scoundrels who fricked b***hes and constantly got into bar fights
come out of your cave grognard anon and hit the gym
an able body makes for a strong spirit
I'm just describing the actual class concept as the developers laid out and how it relates to ability check confusion. You are talking about reality for some reason.
>describing the actual class concept as the developers laid out
are you?
please tell me where it is said that wizards are supposed to be of subpar physic
>The masters of academic magic, wizards are students of arcane traditions that stretch back beyond the boundaries of recorded history. Wizards are a highly organized group, often forming academies or guilds devoted to research and development in magical studies, and tend to favor environments where inquiry, experimentation, debate, and the dissemination of knowledge are encouraged. Many accomplished wizards eventually become known for their eccentricity, their egos, and their unquenchable interest in all things arcane and occult.
>just look at a lich, an undead that doesn't play by the physical rules of mortals as an example of this system working
>oh btw this lich could also be functionally moronic but would still be able to cast nukes
>also let's just reference 2nd edition d&d which was so archaic even people who played bg1 and 2 didn't fully grasp it and ignore all instances of 3rd and 3.5 edition which featured some of the most beloved games.
>To me the main issue with the attributes is they feel more like an arpg system like a path of exile build
It's not like an ARPG at all because progression is horizontal, not vertical. That is the opposite of path of exile, and trying to play it that way will punish you.
I think it's imoprtant to note you are coming into this with wrong expectations
This is a system for a Crpg first and foremost
It is not trying to simulate a realistic framework that would work for all kind of extremes
And for good reasons
obviously this kind of system would not only be not fun, but even not feasible at all
So instead the system just drops any attempts in doing extremes
it is implies that there is no physical old man, he just isn't fit to be an adventurer
nor is there a dumb as rock giant, he is a circus freak and has no agency of his own, so is not fit to be an adventurer
for example in DnD if your Str score is 3, you are basically a cripple,
in PoE with a Str score of 2 you have a -24% damage penalty
the entire range of an attribute scores starts from just being a quarter less capable then the average person
My issue is not with the scale. It's with all damage being lumped into one single stat and all area of effect being lumped into another stat.
Both are good. In PoE1 main story does hold up stronger, but PoE2 creates a more interesting world by weaving together faction quests with side missions, barks and the entire atmosphere while leaving the main plot to indirectly affect it. I've enjoyed 2 more because of gameplay and polish - it's much better and more pleasant to play. But if you want a strong main plot, 2 may prove lacking - I've deeply enjoyed all it had to offer, but main quest is pretty short and choppy.
Ah, of course.
Intellect doesn't describe accumulated book-smarts, that's lore skill
Intellect is an abstraction wits, quick thinking, being able to grasp new concepts
and is indeed unironically important in fighting irl
especially if you are outnumbered which is implied for PoE barbarians
Again, a composite stat, combining intelligence and cunning and shrewdness and wits, that doesn't work with their ability checks very well.
Again, this is a system for a crpg
not a an accurate simulation of meta-human abilities to interact with the world
there is LITERALLY no other way
isn't strength a composite stat for leg strength and upper body strength?
what about dnd/dnd derivded systems like pathfinder?
In PF isn't charisma a composite stat for both looks and leadership?
in adnd 2e
isn't intelligence a composite stat for memory as well as reasoning?
Why does a cRPG need such a small number of attributes? Or attributes at all? It's cargo cult design.
I see nothing about physical strength being a part of their abilities. Because it isn't.
RPGs are a composite genre with an incredible number of iterations, what you value and which systems you like is entirely subjective. You need more flexibility if you want to understand other people's perceptions.
>Why does a cRPG need such a small number of attributes?
why don't you answer that yourself? even better come up with your own system that has a separate attribute for everything, so you can go without composite attributes,
and then, if you aren't insane by that time, try to convince some of your friends to play it
and if you actually succeed, because you have a gun, try convincing them doing it again
because they sure as hell would rather be shot dead at that point
>I see nothing about physical strength being a part of their abilities. Because it isn't.
this is absurd
let me guess, Aragorn didn't wear pants because nowhere in the text does it specify that he indeed did?
Pillars 1 is a game I absolutely do not understand. I seriously enjoyed Kingmaker and played it for a long time but Pillars, and I hate this "criticism", is a genuine bore to me. Every time I open it up 10 different games I don't really want to play or even thought of before opening Pillars come to mind that I for some reason would rather play in that moment.
I enjoy POE 1 and 2 more than any of the new crop of crpgs. I don't think I can even explain why. They're just comfy games for me.
>They're just comfy games for me.
based and pure
>I enjoy POE 1 and 2 more than any of the new crop of crpgs. I don't think I can even explain why. They're just comfy games for me.
I dislike these games and you know what? This is a completely reasonable argument that no one can argue with. Bless you, anon, and I hope you have fun playing them.
>believe what you want as long as you don't disagree with me
Finished with the abbey. Pretty well designed map with an interesting story. Several ways to approach and complete this. Pretty incredible map renders, aesthetically. The encounters are certainly lacking but you'll want to avoid them anyways.
Last of the dragons and hardest fight in the game done, on PotD. Even with a suboptimal party it was not terrible, priest and wizard is all you really need to beat anything. Had the bard tank the whole fight even. I'm still not level capped and all that's left is a handful of side quests I don't care about and won't be doing, so off to finish the game.
I wish I could play 1 in the deadfire engine
They are both made in Unity and the vancian magic system is superior 🙂
I just want the classes and multiclassing
>vancian magic system is superior
no it's not it's fricking stupid
>So why can't you cast more spells?
>vancian mage:I JUST CAN'T OK?
you posted a wojak
glad to see your eyes work grandpa shame your memory doesn't...did you forget again how to cast a magic missle?
I'm going to attempt a POTD run through of both games. Starting in 1, PC Paladin, Eder, Durance, custom Wizard, custom Rogue, what would you take as the last class? I'm leaning Cipher.
Take 6 chanters.
PoE1 playthrough is over. I still maintain that the game is not among the rpg greats, but deserves a place among the many curiosities that exist in the genre that are worth experiencing. It's easily the best implementation of rtwp combat on a technical level, if nothing else, and this will probably be true for a long time. Whether the encounters in this game fully exercise these mechanics in a fun and interesting way, and if rtwp is worth it to begin with, is up for debate. The campaign is not the best, but the setting is interesting despite being mundane, which is to say rather than being steampunk or in space or some other such unusual bullshit, it is simply an interesting place with a lot of work that went into its creation, although more work went into its background than fleshing out what the player directly interacts with, and this hurts the pacing badly in certain parts.
Onto deadfire.
Imported my save to PoE2. PotD again, same race, same background, (valian aristocrat for maximum smug responses) the only difference being that I've upgraded to ascendant cipher. Very exciting intro and I am always shocked by PoE2's absolutely stunning aesthetics which, I think, are rivaled only by Disco Elysium in CRPGs, and the prose has greatly improved from the first game, making it quite fun to read. I actually LOVE nautical settings, as a disclaimer, and as such PoE2 is always quite a treat in that regard.
>the prose has greatly improved from the first game
I lol'd for real
It has and you are conflating narrative with prose. 🙂
No I'm not. The prose is too wordy, pretentious and gay. Iow it was written by women.
The prose in poe 1 in objectively denser, so this is a strange complaint. It's also a lot dryer and more serious.
>it was written by women.
It's mainly split between a woman and Sawyer, who is an aging lesbian trapped in a man's body, so this is not entirely untrue.
Dude, there's an NPC in white march who's entire gimmick is saying frick and balls a lot. The bar is not very high here.
>prose is too wordy, pretentious and gay
Yeah maybe a bit, but still an improvement
Especially when it comes to wordy especially for anything avellone wrote
Merry Christmas, pillarbros.
is that baby-Josh?
the savior of crpgs?
Done with Port Mojave. Lots of big changes from PoE1 here. While bystanders mostly have 3-4 canned responses, many of them gossip amongst themselves in the background, giving a much needed boost to the liveliness of cities. Gone are the gold portrait kickstarter lore dumps and in their place we have the ghosts of the recently departed, who are directly related to whats happening in the campaign, and we collect their souls as we meet them like some sort of grim reaper. Going around talking to your crew and informing them that they are, unfortunately, quite dead is pretty amusing. Day/night cycles affect the positioning of NPCs and we have some choices to make in quests outside of dialogue, like slaying the prison guard and freeing her captive, if we wish to acquire a new crew member. Skill checks have been significantly improved as well. They now check multiple skills, and you must manually pick the party member that has the best combination suited for the task at hand. The devs leaned harder into stealth, and not only is it more involved but it's also really important now for positioning and first strikes. The first major battle is the drake at the digsite, and due to refusing to pick up mercs this is quite the battle, but with grenades and interdiction it's still pretty feasible, and there isn't anything of this caliber until at least act 2 in poe1. At the end we're reunited with our good buddy Aloth, and continue our journey to reap souls and hunt down a 270m tall naked man. Much less serious and edgy than the grimdark stillborn baby storyline of poe1, feels like I'm in an anime.
?si=UWSf6JLSFpOZ4nss
>feels like I'm in an anime.
Sawyer is an enormous weeb.
pillars 2 has better gameplay and build diversity
pillars 1 is better in every other way
But pillars 1 has better gameplay and better classes. Pillars 2 has classes with broken anime abilities and better writing.
excuse me sir it's Christmas not opposite day
The combat in poe2 gets very silly.
more like very awesome
more like very trans
>very trans
we aint discussin you though
PS there isn't actually a single trans char in PoE 1/2 is there?
Aloth is a woman trapped in a man's body, Pallegina is legally genderless in her home country.
You are stretching it to fricking thin
So no, it doesn't have a single one?
Least pozzed crpg of the crpg revival confirmed
Thank you Josh for shielding our crpgs from trannies!
>Thank you Josh for shielding our crpgs from trannies!
This is a terrible hill to die on.
>he literally suffered so he could shield us from the suffering
Josh... I kneel
>marriage is between one man and one woman for the purpose of procreation
based Sawyer
Pallegina and her whole hang-up over being godlike feels like a thinly veiled trans metaphor, especially in 2.
perhaps if you are trans yourself or a soon to be trans and you perceive everything as a thinly veiled trans metaphor
we regular people don't see it that way
but thanks for letting us know and sorry for your pp
She's mad about it because she's discriminated against and will also never be able to have a family.
Deadfire's pacing is garbage and the writing isn't good enough to compensate
>taking a Black person in your party
>taking a Black person woman in your party
imagine even knowing anything about Pallegina's character in the first place
Only the second town and my Naruto powers are already awakening.
Queen's Berth is truly gigantic. This prostitute house full of gay prostitutes alone has more content than any city it PoE1.
1. What's your opinion of PoE2 compared to its predecessor so far?
2. How does it stand compared to other greats such as Disco Elysium in terms of story and dialogue?
Thank you for your insight fren. I'm looking for something to scratch an itch after going through Disco Elysium. Oddly enough I never liked Baldur's Gate, but I did like Planescape: Torment.
NTA but the gameplay is better than the first but the story and writing and setting are still stupid. Try PoE1, grab it on sale for cheap, but it’s certainly not in the same vein as pst (or DE for that matter)
I hear Mask of the Betrayer is comparable, but personally I've ever tried it. Is this just a meme?
Motb is supposed to be pretty good. I’ve never played it, I only finished nwn2 once back in the day before the expansions came out. I couldn’t compare them for you, sorry. Supposedly it’s good at having very fleshed out evil options if that is your thing (I find it abhorrent personally)
Is Pillars of Eternity II the only example of a romance path where, by default, the female love interest pursues you instead of the other way around?
*laughs in NWN2*
Ah, yes, I forgot the groomer/stalker Druid lady.
i enjoyed poe but sad to hear that the story goes to utter contemptable shit in deadfire
sad that current recent crpgs leave much to be desired although it does seem that you need to have quite the budget to attain success in the genre
Who says the story goes to shit in Deadfire? Also, not sure if it was posted, but Sawyer was limited by the initial conditions of the crowdfund. He arrived on the scene after the crowdfund was set in stone, he had no choice but to respect the wishes of the funders, even if they did not align with his. I wish he had followed his instincts 🙁
https://www.pcgamer.com/josh-sawyer-the-most-compromised-games-i-worked-on-were-pillars-of-eternity-1-and-2/
>Who says the story goes to shit in Deadfire
It's actually honestly improved in deadfire. The ending conclusion of poe1 is actually really fricked up on its own.
the whole following the plot device that is eothas for the entirety of the game and nothing you do mattering, you disingenious celebrity worshipping cum-slurping homosexual
The whole point of Eothas is that you are merely an observer and puppet in the machinations of the gods. Thats literally why Eothas does the spoiler thing. You are the decider in earthly matters, which is to say the fate of deadfire, and that's pretty significant.
>ship stuff is unfairly maligned. Compared to Owlcat mini games it is top notch, but that is a low bar I guess.
The best part about it is that it is pretty low key, it never gets in your way when adventuring
>LEARN AMERICA^w OWLCAT
>The environmental design and quests are much better than PoE2. Writing is hugely improved and less amateur, which makes going around talking to NPCs more enjoyable rather than everyone being edgy lore dump robots. Companions have a lot more personality. Eder, for example, is no longer a doormat, and will call you out for being an evil bastard. He also has a romance of sorts with a new companion, Xoti, which makes the game kinda feel like Lunar, in that it is bubbly and romantic. I did not enjoy anything that was not dungeons in poe1 at all, like not even a little, but it is much more fun to explore here. I think the ship stuff is unfairly maligned. Compared to Owlcat mini games it is top notch, but that is a low bar I guess.
bro you have all the wrong opinions and it's absolutely hilarious because I know you're not trolling
>bro you have all the wrong opinions
I notice you have no argument to back that up and are also not currently playing the game. For all we know, you bulldozed through the games on normal and let reddit and Obsidian forums mold your stupid fedora opinions. Imagine reddits butthurt when the whole atheist shtick of 1 turned out to be wrong and eothas literally becomes Jesus in the second game.
I'm a traditional Catholic
Deadfire is better in the ways he says it's worse and vice versa. Imagine saying the Deadfire companions are better than 1. It's so objectively wrong that I would immediately assume whoever said so was trolling, but I know this gay isn't.
>I'm a traditional Catholic
so a satanist?
Yeah sure that makes sense
>Eder, for example, is no longer a doormat, and will call you out for being an evil bastard. He also has a romance of sorts with a new companion, Xoti, which makes the game kinda feel like Lunar, in that it is bubbly and romantic
>bro you have all the wrong opinions and it's absolutely hilarious because I know you're not trolling
I don't even hate every opinion of moeblob but I have to pity this level of terminal loneliness that projects such things onto a bad game.
> I think the ship stuff is unfairly maligned. Compared to Owlcat mini games it is top notch, but that is a low bar I guess.
Ships in POE2:
>cookie clicker ships near the big harbor and rob them in seconds for infinite gold
>kill a blob of pointless trash above deck
>do the boring menu thing which is the same every time, tedious and slow, and did i mention it is a menu
People don't like kingdom and armies in PKM and Wrath because they have the attention span of fleas but they have a lot going on as a counterpoint to RtWP:
>extra roleplay development with strategic decisions of advisors
>interesting units and events that can be developed in different styles according to your MC style
The "minigames" in both owlcat titles are miles above the unfinished ships, come on now Moe.
>I don't even hate every opinion of moeblob but I have to pity this level of terminal loneliness that projects such things onto a bad game.
Do you even know what he's talking about? Did you play Lunar?
I'm pretty sure he missed the point completely.
I've known the point of anime since Otaku No Video, replacing the increasing worthlessness of female companionship and escape for the hardworking Nipponese young man during his progression into herbivorism of no longer giving a frick about participation and those of similar philosophy (Moe period catering to Christmas Cake women not withstanding).
It's another opiate of the masses of which I don't need to know the specific comfy relationship of Lunar to have seen it across several other titles.
Lunar is a romantic comedy where all of your party companions meet their significant others in the game. Which is to say the entire party isn't trying to suck CHARNAME off, so it's literally the opposite of what you are saying. This has the effect of giving a game a romantic theme, whereas most western games with romance elements wind up being more written like pornos. Lunar is a highly influential game by the way, you should play it. Many character archtypes were born from that game.
>the opposite of what I said seems to be in anon's delusional world a description of a harem anime
>When in fact most all anime is a relational substitute or escapism
>Sometimes it even has things like quantum mechanics packaged into the escapism but there it is, even if it is a slice of life title that is about a better more perfect life far removed from the social isolation of today and nothing to do with sucking off MC/harems and what not.
I don't doubt it is nice and poignant and I probably should get around to it, but there is more to life and literature than pornos and harems vs. not and anime is still a massively escapist genre so this invalidates none of what I said.
I'm just cursed with more understanding than most, not less. You can see how it might be confusing for others that live at surface take depth only.
You've completely strayed from the discussion at this point. That's an awfully big text wall for a concession.
All weebs currently participating have either repeated themselves, or appealed to false authority (misrepresenting that even) at this time.
My record as the Breaker of Weebs stands untarnished.
>The "minigames" in both owlcat titles are miles above the unfinished ships
nah
thirst of all there are 3 now
humerus enough owlcat follows obsidian in minigames theme
obsidian did barony, owlcat does a barony
obsidian did a ship, owlcat does a ship
and each time obsidian's version is better
and yes deadfire's ships are better for a simple reason
I want to play a crpg not an extremely basic version of X genre
and no despite your mental gymnastics it does not add value to roleplaying and it does ruin the immersion
obsidian's mechanics take 3 clicks and don't get in the way of me playing an actual crpg
>bro you have all the wrong opinions
He's basically just reiterating the post-game analysis of the lead developer reflecting on why it performed worse than the first game. And it's true that combat was a hotly criticized issue in the main game, which is why they added many more difficult encounters. Additionally, while the main plot was criticized, the writing was not, whereas both the plot and writing was criticized in PoE1.
https://www.tumblr.com/jesawyer/188915786456/will-there-be-a-pillars-3
Deadfire's main issues were, imo, doubling down on the main issues in PoE1 due to pride. Sawyer is very bad at recognizing what his strengths are and playing to them.
>Deadfire's main issues were, imo, doubling down on the main issues in PoE1
Can you elaborate?
The repetitive combat system where every class runs together and loses identity, which they "remedied" by adding multi which further blends classes and replacing vancian magic which a generic empower ability, and further reducing unique classes by adding subclasses which undermine their functions, like focus becoming an unimportant footnote of how cipher works. Additionally, PoE1 had a rather bare main plot with a focus on side content, and deadfire added a big ocean to explore. So, as you can see, not really addressing the problems here, but rather building on them thinking people will finally see the light or whatever, and while deadfire improves a lot of things and I like it, someone indifferent to the first game, which was carried by nostalgia marketing rather than acclaim, would likely not be interesting in a sequel which abandons the nostalgia anyways.
>would likely not be interesting
*interested
We need to go back to make your own adventure RPGs that don't focus so much on some big poorly written overarching plot. POE is the closest we've got to that in modern times.
No, BG3 is that, with its anchor point narrative design. This is how games like wizardry and gold box work. You are just given an objective and its up to you how to figure out how to reach it. PoE uses branching quest design, mostly, the wizard's tower in deadfire is an example of it not doing that. Like most of the time there is a very clear path to solving quests, and having 30 quests at once doesn't change that. It's very bad in poe1, and they step away from it in deadfire a bit, but it's still there as a foundation. It does this because it's how bg1 and 2 does this, by the way, but it's not how we remember them. And that's why its important to design games around ideals in people's heads rather than reality.
>No, BG3 is that, with its anchor point narrative design
I wouldn't know, I don't play goyslop
>This is how games like wizardry and gold box work
Yes that's what I was thinking of.
>that moment that you know anon from the first sentence and you know you can safely ignore the entire post as this moron never has anything of value to add
Didn't read
He's right, except for liking deadfire, contributed to the discussion, and you're unsophisticated and boring though.
How can you be "wrong" in liking something?
By liking something that is objectively bad, like BG3.
>every class runs together and loses identity
I can certainly see how this is a problem in deadfire (it mostly annoys me with Barbarian which lost its class identity in carnage and in Deadfire is mostly just worse monk) but PoE1 has more distinct class mechanics than the games they are based on. The difference between a barbarian, fighter, paladin or ranger in BG1-2 is pretty minor and PoE1 they are more distinct. Same with PoE chanter, cipher, or wizard compared to BG1-2 sorcerer, bard, or mage.
>PoE1 has more distinct class mechanics than the games they are based on
Yes and no, there is a danger of missing the forest for the trees. PoE1 was designed so any class could be anything so this functionally means that every class can do the same thing but in different ways, whereas in dnd characters generally have distinct talents. The few classes that do not fall into this trap have little in the way of build variety, like there is really only one good build for priests and everything else is just terrible by comparison, same for rangers. So PoE is distinct in form but not function imo.
>PoE1 was designed so any class could be anything so this functionally means that every class can do the same thing but in different ways
No it wasn't. What are you even talking about? All the classed have defined roles with some - small - overlap. Wizards can do wild shit like temporarily be amazing tanks, but most classes stick to their role.
There is no tanking in PoE technically. Even fighters are limited in their effectiveness as a tank by a temporary buff, making them functionally the same as a wizard in this regard mechanically. You basically just build up buffs/debuffs until you can overwhelm the opposition, tanking is of little value. A cipher can be a tank, so can a paladin, a rangers pet, a priest, anyone.
You CAN do things and get away with them because even on POTD the difficulty plummets midgame, but a Ranger pet for example will always be a sub-par tank and a St. Elcga Paladin will always be the best.
No, the best tank will always be someone who can tank while doing other things. Anything else is a waste because fights are basically endurance tests, where the longer they run the worse off you are.
This is the hardest fight in the game:
?si=XSBdWaJVB8lGAgVP
As you can see, no tanking required here, just throw the helm that reduces breath damage by 50% on the primary melee.
>Wizards can do wild shit like temporarily be amazing tanks, but most classes stick to their role.
I literally just did a potd poe1 playthrough where durance and kana were my tanks and posted it here.
>. PoE1 was designed so any class could be anything so this functionally means that every class can do the same thing but in different ways,
Eh, You can dps or tank with anything in PoE1 (except rogue and ranger who are awful as tanks), but your ability to AoE, CC, or support is rather class dependent.
>your ability to AoE, CC, or support is rather class dependent.
Not really, weaken, frighten, daze, and blind are not really unique to any class, nor is AOE. And this is further blurred by abilities on items.
>When you really think about it, games are just 1s and 0s after all. It's all the same
reductio ad absurdum strikes again
I accept your concession.
> weaken, frighten, daze, and blind are not really unique to any class
Hardly anything in dnd is unique to any one class, and there's groups of classes in PoE1 that are clearly way better at some things than others. Without using spell scrolls Fighter/rogue/ranger can't meaningful AoE anything compared to a druid whos every offensive spell damages and debuffs everything on the screen or a barb that hits 5 enemies every swing by default. Or if you want a tanky support you can build it as a paladin, chanter, priest, or druid and a cipher/fighter/monk etc. will not be able to fill that role and be nearly as effective.
>Without using spell scrolls Fighter/rogue/ranger can't meaningful AoE
Literally the only way to play ranger in poe1 is to rapid fire stormcaller to spam aoe stun.
>It's just a fun adventurer. There are some interesting themes and the world is cool, but it's not like some subversive Alan Moore comic with its head up its ass.
See this is 2x funny now because not only do you have a better opinion here (frick "subversive progressives") I was specifically going to mention Tales of the Black Freighter as the counterpoint in Watchmen similar to the strategy modes in PKM and Wrath as counterpoints before I even read your last line here.
Things were pretty saccharine in Moore's time for superheroes, I don't blame him for doing it then and Watchmen is a good piece. It's gone the other way these days, making sincerity the actual subversive and progressive elements.
>companions
*companions and sometimes even crew
Capitalism has already declared Owlcat the winner, I do not defend, merely correct the record.
>burger flavor replacement like a brewer
>goblin buildings
>chaos aligned prostitutehouse
>stocks for lawful evil
>still not seeing how crew mattered when deck boarding didn't matter as they're all fluff nothing npc and the ship battles were skippable via robbing instead (and meta path of least resistance) but i guess it was a thing in the menu
It's ok to be wrong anon.
>3 titles not two gottem
This is where adhd zooms that instantly leap on an EA title and then b***h that it is unfinished and I differ greatly. I have great patience in waiting for things to bake properly.
>obsidian's mechanics take 3 clicks and don't get in the way of me playing an actual crpg
>less investment = more rpg immersion
x to doubt
I could do the "are you sure you played thing" to both of you but I don't need these weak tactics.
>Capitalism has already declared Owlcat the winner
Owlcat is unironically dead, Obsidian created an IP which enabled them to be bought out by Microsoft. Both companies saw a horrible end. However, IWD wasn't a popular game either, but remains a certified hood classic, to the point of IWD2 being redeemed in EE which borrowed many features from PoE in its overall design retroactively. I can see poe 1 and 2 being played 20 years from now, but I reckon owlcat will be dead and forgotten, as PoE is original and novel whereas Owlcats games are derivative and regressive.
>muh owlcat is dead!
Thu, December 21
Update 1.0.78 is live!
Lord Captains, our second large patch is live!
What is it like to live with such delusions in your head that translate into such falsehoods on your tongue? Does it tire you out?
why do you think they made such a rushed release?
literally broken to the point of the game being unbeatable at launch
they are running out of money and time
their first games rode the covid gaming wave, but they won't survive long now that it's out of breath and entertainment businesses are cutting costs like crazy [for a good reason]
this
all 3 owlcat games are carried by respective IP's fans
they made the only 2 crpgs based on Pathfinder
they literally made _the only_ crpg in WH40K to date
they are great businessmen but are bankrupt in terms of creativity and mastership
their games have nothing to offer outside the IP
copied mechanics (terrible mechanics when they try going beyond copying), bad pacing, bad level design, bad encounter design, unnecessary and non-organic and poorly baked side-mechanics, technical issues, that's all they have to offer besides the IP
in 20 years PF will be a dead IP and WH40K will have plenty of better games and no one will care about these ones
>Capitalism has already declared the winner
so it did with tyler swift or some other shit, this means nothing to me
all owlcats game have lower userscores compared to PoE1/2, the core audience has declared the winner and it's not owlcat
>in 20 years PF will be dead
PF is kind of garbo but that's Paizo, not Owlcat who has been redeeming them if anything.
I do hope they stick with Warhammer over the Wokeness and Wiccans setting.
Rogue Trader sucks too
>but that's Paizo, not Owlcat
the point was that without PF fans no one is going to be interested in replaying and discussing PF1/2
owlcat is probably in a very bad situation financially tho see
>copied mechanics (terrible mechanics when they try going beyond copying), bad pacing, bad level design, bad encounter design, unnecessary and non-organic and poorly baked side-mechanics, technical issues, that's all they have to offer besides the IP
t. full of shit
Come back when you can ride stuff into battle in PoE. That' just one example.
>to the point of IWD2 being redeemed in EE which borrowed many features from PoE
Lol I think you're overstating how much they borrowed anon
Literally the only thing I can think of is they semi borrowed the "engagement" system for AoOs just without the UI effects, and this is really more just an elegant solution to making the system work for the limitation of the AI.
>It's ok to be wrong anon.
I recon this is your life's moto? :^)
it's not
>less investment = more rpg immersion
it's
>less tedious non-rpg mechanics = more rpg immersion
?si=2xWgbsSIfvpWSoVw
Soul
Are your party members useful in combat?
Play the game and find out.
Broke into a wizard's tower from underneath an adjacent bath house, stealthed all the way to the top, acquired a disguise to let me explore it normally, then located a key which let me enter his vault, containing a very nice grimoire for Aloth. No quests or anything directing me here or telling me what to do, very nicely designed. Everything in this city is just great.
There is a quest though
I think it's initiated by an apprentice of some magic items merchant (?)
Nope, the magic shop owner is the apprentice of the very wizard we are robbing, and will give you a hint on how to infiltrate the tower, but it does not trigger a quest. There is a quest tied to the item you find in the vault, but it is not branching. You can get the item prior to even knowing about the quest, then find the people who want it. (so not only can you explore the tower, but then you have to find someone to pawn the artifact off on, making the quest work both backwards and forwards) You can recruit the shopkeeper as a companion after you do this by the way.
Checked the wiki,
ekera, you are right on that
There is a quest that can lead you there though, something something about an old huana tablet
This one is started by two aumaua women near Arkemyr's manor, not Fassina. Nothing stops you from simply going in and stealing the tablet through the front door, and this is exactly what I did.
>Nothing stops you from simply going in and stealing the tablet through the front door
Not exactly front door, but yes, that's true
>moeblob avatar gay
>treats video games like a philosophical question
you're pathetic
>y-you don't p-play games!
truly I am reeling from this revelation
go hug your 2000 year old demon in an 8 year old girl's body pillow or something
>go hug your 2000 year old demon in an 8 year old girl's body pillow or something
I will and I will enjoy it.
2 obviously
People who like BG3 are the only posters making on topic threads? Anon are you off your meds again?
I don't see anyone else actually discussing anything. Just people pretending to like old games while spamming bethesda shit and having /misc/ arguments. I see people make a thread about games all the time, play the first 2 hours, then spend 4 months discussing off topic shit and not touching the game. RPGs are entirely a front for them to hang out with the very people they dislike. This place is abysmal.
I love it here.
I bet ticks and leeches love their hosts.
Kinda figures
People liking bg3 like rpgs
lol
lmao even
Look it's OK that you like Pokémon or Zelda or some shit, but different people have different taste
It's not okay that you like bestiality, trannies and anal sex.
Anon, we all suck wieners here.
It shows
>verification not required
POE2 is better in turn based mode
No.
Yeah thoughbeit
No.
Good point thoughever I must disagree,
No.
This
Nope.
1 for story, 2 for combat/builds
Niet
>remove barb's class defining ability and the only thing that made them worth playing in 1
why did Josh do that
huh? what the frick are you talking about
He's talking about carnage which was nerfed/had it's scope reduced to the point where it was no longer a notable ability compared to PoE1 where it was the whole reason you played barbarian.
Possibly balance (any on-hit weapon effect that was ok for another melee class was amazing for barbs in PoE1), possibly because people complained about int being the best attribute for barbarians.
Le balance man strikes again. No fun allowed in your single player rpg.
Conan the Librarian is the best build in rpg history. Unironically
carnage was not
>removed
so what the frick is he talking about?
autism alert
?si=IvoQBR9mg34_bh-t
Why is the ost so insanely good? Imagine all the talent being wasted at Obsidian right now working on shit like avowed and outer worlds.
Justin Bell composed the OST for PoE1, 2 and Tyranny. Unfortunately, he left Obsidian for Santa Monica Studios according to his LinkedIn.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinbellaudio
>Santa Monica Studios
Monkey pawed.
There was an unusually good thread on PoE yesterday on regular Ganker. I had to double check I wasn't on /vrpg/.
This thread has also been good. PoE is not the best game but I have a big soft spot for it, finished the megadungeon and two DLCs. I'm 2/3 of the way through PoE2 and I'm not sure why I stopped - will be returning to it after reading this thread. Also frick Larian, I hate their lolrandom writing and turn-based combat.
Larian is what would happen if r*ddit was a game studio
Stop.
Found the bear fricker
Do you want to have a poe thread or not, because if you're gunna piss and shit over bg3 I'll leave you on your own.
NTA but
>if you're gunna piss and shit over bg3
Larian already did that, anon.
>NTA
No one believes that and I guess you do not want to discuss poe, I will not be making another Ganker thread again either.
>No one believes that
Believe what you wish. It’s incredibly cringe when people like you pretend there’s only two people that post here.
>and I guess you do not want to discuss poe
I’m pretty sure I’ve said what I thought about the games earlier in the thread, it’s several weeks old. They’re OK games with some good ideas but mediocre execution.
Why would you come into a thread about games you do not like to complain about other unrelated games you do not like
It was a drive by shitpost because I thought it was funny you complained about another anon “pissing and shitting over bg3” because that’s precisely what Larian did. Now you’re derailing the thread to continue talking about it instead of talking about PoE, the subject my last post at least attempted to return to. What in particular about PoE would you like me to discuss, anon?
I would like you to go to another website and stop shitting up this one. Go to some place with permanently angry and unproductive people like codex and resetera, this would be a better fit for you.
>is still not talking about PoE instead of my repeated attempts to return to this topic of discussion
>is angry about a throwaway shitpost and projecting this anger onto me, despite me calmly trying to engage in discussion about PoE
Yup, it’s /vrpg/ time
oh no what will we do without moeblob avatargay?
Not discuss rpgs apparently.
I'm glad you agree that BG3 isn't an RPG.
Sven isn't gonna frick you, anon. BG3 is garbage just like every Larian game.
gigachad
Look at morons killing a thread to cry about bg3. If idiots had their way we'd all be sitting in mud huts eating dirt because anything greater is simply degenerate and being a complete moron is le soulful and based.
Bestiality is not ok.
Didn't Sawyer play through BG3 and say it was am excellent and groundbreaking game? A lot of the things undesirables put on a pedestal here are really mind boggling, like the praise of Arcanum when Avellone played and completely shit on it for 10 solid hours.
What?
BG3 is an excellent game that is comprehensive to an unprecedented in the history of computerized roleplaying games. However, to call it groundbreaking is a stretch as there is not much it does that is truly *new*, it is an iteration of existing ideas and systems but executed more skillfully than in any comparable game.
Nah it's bad
2 is an improvement in almost every single way.
I have poe1 and can‘t play it. I am just at the beginning and the only contact with crpg I have is dragon age1.
Not sure but it is really interesting but also boring with reading reading and stuff. I hope when I start again I will like it better
dao was my entry point too, i like rtwp because of it, and it was a very cinematic experience
poe1 does not have this cinematic experience but it has better rtwp gameplay or more party building possibilities
the story, lore is good in certain parts and at the end of the game, just power through the bad parts
Favourite class?
Unironically fighter. Just dont build them as a pure tanks and they're great. Focus Dex/Int/Per/Might.
In Deadfire you have to multiclass because they lose their offensive power from 1 and fighter high level abilities suck but multiclass fighters are beasts.
Barb but only in 1 because soiyer removed based Carnage in 2.
Cipher of course
Cipher/Rogue multiclass
Multiclass in general is super fun in Deadfire.
rogue - positioning, using abilities to stop the enemy from running away or healing, dealing massive damage, hunt down the enemy rogues, priests, wizards
easily my favorite class
my favorite char in poe2 was a fighter/rouge multiclass with the rogue subclass being the one where the less health you had the more damage it did
I really liked single class Beguiler Cipher, managing your focus exclusively by casting CC was pretty engaging, and you always had to balance casting the most useful spell now vs something less useful but granting more focus for later.
Yeah Barbarians in Deadfire were more about taking advantage of recovery reduction/elimination, you hardly notice they're dealing AoE melee damage and Fighters with mob stance and clear out seem more built for the PoE1's Barbarian role. They multiclass great with almost anything though. Berserker/Fighter makes a great Barbarian, Berserker/Rogue can teleport around killing squishy enemies in one or two hits, under optimal conditions a Berserker/Skald can let out 5 Thrice Was She Wronged in 2 seconds.
cipher because you never run out of mana
chanter same and also because it manages to make a bard type actually fun
rouge because micro'ing to take out high-value targets never gets old
PoE1 classes power rating:
S: Priest
A: Wizard, Druid, Cipher, Chanter, Paladin
B: Ranger, Barbarian, Monk, Fighter
C: Rogue
PoE1 classes fun rating:
S: NONE (Sawyer at work)
A: Barbarian, Cipher, Wizard, Druid, Fighter w/ charge
B: Ranger, Rogue, Monk, Priest
C: Paladin, Fighter without charge
D: Chanter (you literally just stand there)
How is fighter w/ charge more fun than rogue
One is a gigachad that smashes through the enemy team to get to backline and knocks them out, other telports gets one attack in and then has to teleport out because rogue can't survive enemy focus for shit.
This is the rogue problem in PoE1, melee dps rogue can't survive in melee (on PotD) ranged rogue is just worse ranger.
>has to teleport out because rogue can't survive enemy focus for shit.
Sounds like a cc issue
cipher or wizard to dab on all the other wizards
wew lads, really dropped the ball here.
For anyone going through Pillars of Eternity, just FYI, you can kill that cannibal c**t Icantha if you attack her enough. Yes, she heals quickly and infinitely. Yes, she interrupts your attacks with dialogue every time you attack her. Yes, she gets up from death even if you manage to reduce her HP to zero. But she actually has a limited number of revives.
Gromnir prefers the first game due to it's more serious tone and setting. Gromnir also likes the overall story compared to the sequel. Ha! Good fun.
Oh Pillars. The game that made me swear off backing games. I'm still fricking mad at Obsidian for Deadfire.
>Promises major consequences for certain choices in the first game.
Ends up being fricking nothing. We didn't even get anything for Thaos' soul aside from a single throwaway line in the main game and dlc.
>Waidwen
Motherfricking Eder's entire quest in the first game is him having an autistic shitfit over wondering why his brother joined Readceras and what Waidwen said to him.
>But anon the whole point of his quest is that he accepts some questions won't have answers
No frick off. He directly speaks to Waidwen AND Eothas. No matter how much closure any homosexual would have if they are confronted with the answer they want they'd go for it. Someone actually asked a dev about this and the reason it wasn't included was because they forgot.
>Tone
I like Pirates. I like sailing. I like the tropics. But somehow they made it shit.
>Content
The entire game minus the critical path is entirely backer shit. You notice that? All the islands, all the portraits, all the bounties. Everything is backer content. Most of it is fricking shit too.
You know though I can forgive it all. All of it but the worst of it all is for how much Obsidian cried about publishers they were so quick to wanting to be bought the atto second they had some success. Frick Obsidian. Frick Pillars.
I'm happy for you.. or sorry for your loss. didn't read
Thank you anon. That really means a lot.
I'm still mad they cut the Thaos companion from Deadfire.
Actually, I didn't think about this before, but the contrast between Durance and the Devil's act is quite something.
>Durance
walls of heavily-padded text that he wants hard to sound very cool and deep
it takes ages to read through and to exhaust his dialogue option and drag it all from him, and he gives out his SO IMPORTANT story in several steps making you wait for it
kinda overacting VA
>Devil of Caroc
her main background story is actually narrated rather succintly
no wannabe intellectual/spiritual depth, just an extremely believable tragedy that perfectly fits into the saint's war narrative and the events that are mentioned in the game elsewhere, her story is exactly that kind that is simplest and strongest
the actress actually nails the performance and actually manages to hit absurd levels of cool edge that Durance wishes he could jerk off to
I was really surprised. They did great job with White March. The White Forge had great atmosphere too. The black dude was overacting and not that great, but the mad metal mademoiselle - fricking close to perfect.
i never played 2, and i stopped playing the first one shortly after the castle management stuff got introduced.
>stopped playing the first one shortly after the castle management stuff got introduced.
Same here. Reached the part where you unlock the keep management stuff and noped the frick out of the game.
I want to play a bunch of shiftless roamers randomly kicking notable amounts of ass, not act as glorified castellans.
>inb4 hurr izz optional
Are you guys moronic or did you not actually play the game?
It's just desperate bait to keep the thread alive
It took you 40 hours to complete the progue?
>It took you 40 hours to complete the progue?
what gives you that idea?
>Reached the part where you unlock the keep management stuff and noped the frick out of the game.
>41h
i wonder if you're capable of conceiving a reality in which somebody restarts a game multiple times because it's not interesting, but they think maybe they just weren't in a crpg mood, and then spends most of the time playing exploring and not doing quest shit, and then spends more time exploring shit after being exposed to the feature that turns them off about it in an attempt to enjoy it otherwise.
nta but i have 43 hours and literally never beat raedric
painfully boring game, i just revisit it once a year to make sure im not missing anything
last time i played I had all rifles on party members to make a firing line which was kinda fun
>Reached the part where you unlock the keep management stuff and noped the frick out of the game.
>41h
LOL
you either stole the screenshot, Black person
or you are unironically moronic