Yeah, it's frustrating. Everything else in the game is perfectly fine but you have one single 0/10 dungeon that forces you to waste an insane amount of time.
Does that count as a dungeon?
In the same game, people generally hate the pitioss optional dungeon but I liked how unique and properly mazelike it felt, even if I had to deal with a lot of frustration with the actual platforming.
Otherwise, I remember P2 Innocent Sin on the psp having "theatre quests" or something like that that weren't in the original release. Did a few of them but Christ were the dungeons in them annoying, especially with the teleporting floor tiles that get you to the other side of the map or on another level.
Eh, its fun figuring it out the first time and every subsequent run you should remember what order to do the worlds in, which makes it as easy as any other major quest in origins. People who use the 'skip the fade' mod are babies.
>not listening to the change in the disc spinning sound to tell you that a fight is loading >not jumping on the spot and THEN pressing the direction a frame later so the game can't surprise-trigger a fight
ngmi
Late FF12 dungeons sucked in general. You can tell when the director left the project because then they just padded out the rest of the game with next to no story and some deliberately overly long dungeons that were just slogs to get through. Its when the game just becomes a long string of "Find the macguffin in this dungeon" one after the other.
Dear god yes. That giant tower was a painfully dully slog. And when you think you're at the end, you're cheerfully informed that you're at the half-way point.
>that one rare monster that you had to kill something like 250 enemies in the crystal and then get a 50 chain of ghosts in order to spawn but even then it could spawn in one of 5 different places >has a 1% chance of dropping the ultimate dagger
On the modern ports with auto-save you can just spawn the rare mob once and keep reloading your save upon entering the room it's in until you get the dagger, but I actually did it on the PS2 version of IZJS without auto-save on a real PS2. Thankfully though I got absurdly lucky and the dagger dropped after just a couple attempts.
So what would be the recipe for the worst dungeon ever? >Maze like layout with no map >Trap rooms >Tons of dead ends with not even loot or clues or anyhing >Locked doors that require backtracking to open >Encounter rate out the ass >When you open one door it locks another >Conveyer belts/ice that makes you slide in a specific direction
What else?
>limited sight, nearsighted viewing distance, lack of light, fog, darkness, blindness, visual impairment, low visual acuity >fake objects/environments, mirages, hallucinations >impaired movement speed >misleading sounds and noises, lack of sound, deafness >environments look exactly the same, copypasted rooms, no landmarks >unsolicited teleportation, not being able to go back the way you came >endless, procedual environmental generation >non-stop swarms of enemies >race against time, everything becomes more difficult, enemies become harder to kill and more dangerous >convoluted, unfair, nonsensical puzzles
Nah. Regular autosave points with only one save slot and a chance of getting stuck/permafricked. The whole dungeon is 120 hours into the game. Rare but existing save-corrupting bugs optional but welcome.
non-eukleidian geometry with all of the above
also alternatively hidden teleporters to locations that look the same but aren't (so you don't even notice when you've teleported)
non-eukleidian geometry with all of the above
also alternatively hidden teleporters to locations that look the same but aren't (so you don't even notice when you've teleported)
>non-eukleidian geometry with all of the above
Guess what anon, I have good news for you :o)
https://www.digitalmzx.com/show.php?id=1817
>What else?
The shit from Wrath of the Righteous where you have to rotate your camera constantly since certain things are only visible & accessible from certain angles.
If you are gonna talk about Wrath of the Righteous, you gotta be talking about Enigma. That place is a giant nightmare of dumb puzzles.
Also bonus shout out to the Engima adjacent "dungeon" with all those fricking plate dungeons. They might not be half as bad if they'd just give it a special UI specifically for them instead of how you do it ingame.
>Tons of dead ends with not even loot or clues or anyhing
Except for one dead end that looks exactly the same as the rest yet has chest with best equipment in game(for better effect you can't backtrack to that maze)
The last dungeon in Tales of Arise.
Honestly the whole final story arc feels rushed as frick, and yet they made sure to make it feel as slow as possible by giving the final dungeon long ass corridors and combat encounters with way too much HP.
The whole pacing of arise, on macro and micro levels, felt terrible to me. >Calaglia is what, four or five map screens wide, you go into the "castle" which is a single basic spiral, and liberate it. >Second zone whose name I forget is over incredibly quickly too >The tower dungeon of that second zone was also phyiscally tiny.
I think it's compounded by the fact that in modern Tales, you have larger screens, so you're loading between screens less often, and going between screens is what triggers enemy respawns. That plus less puzzles in the dungeons means you get way less respawns to fight, which means that if you play efficiently the dungeons feel very short.
The midsection of the plot was decent, but I don't need to explain to you how dire the final villain was.
I personally liked the length and "slog" feeling of the last dungeon, but that was in part because the earliest dungeons left me thinking I'd been served one fricking slider.
I think it's dropped in terms of nightmarishness thanks to the Pixel Remaster adding auto saves and also a place to fully recharge HP and MP. I think the 3D remake also added the fully recharge HP and MP place. Though that was balanced out with making the final boss even harder by adding two tentacles, one that damages the whole party and one that heals, plus bosses attack twice in that game.
It's not that bad. Just those 4 bosses at the end then the final boss that makes it bullshit, because they're just rng and praying you win. After hearing so much about this dungeon, it was surprising at how much easier I found it.
Hardest dungeon in the game is that dividing enemy one before you get the weapon to deal with them.
The roided out airship makes it a fair challenge. I only had to backtrack twice to it on my first playthrough. You should have posted any mini dungeon after the first.
Seraphic Blue - Benedicta's Tears, a massive slog of a dungeon with encounters that can frick your shit sideways (AKA killing a certain enemy locks your commands other than attack). Only saving grace is the Return Trees that act as checkpoints so you can backtrack.
I was expecting it to be some giant labrynth but it turned out every walkway that wasn't a straight line to the top was completely optional. I guess they ran out of time or realized nobody that plays modern jarpigs wants an actual dungeon
I can't think of one dungeon in Tales of Symphonia that I liked. All of them felt like busywork, a chore to get through. Very simple puzzles. The music in the game was great, except in dungeons, where it got old real quick.
Why do you even play RPGs? Navigating big, complex dungeons is the meat of the entire genre. Some of you are such babies you start crying if a dungeon takes longer than 30 minutes
Arcanum's Black Mountain Mines >you go there at like level 10 and it's mandatory, locking off the rest of the game until you do it >it's nothing but tunnels and small rooms >the only enemies are level 30 ore golems >ore golems are unbelievably tanky, requiring upwards of a hundred bullets from the guns available at that point >ore golems are largely immune to elemental damage >ore golems break your melee weapons when you hit them >ore golems hit like trucks and typically one-hit you or any of your party members >ore golems have a frickton of Action Points for some reason and can walk down a whole hallway and punch your head off in one turn >every fricking room or corridor has at least one ore golem in it
the only solution is to turn the game to Real Time mode, because despite have 1 million AP they walk incredibly slowly, and kite the shit out of them while either spamming the Harm spell or hosing them down with literally hundreds of bullets. It is absolutely fricking miserable.
you can totally avoid all ore golems in that though. but yeah that segment definitely assumes you have the combat figured out and maybe did most of the side quests. i was probably level 17 when i got there
The underground cave in FFX-2 where the roof, floor, and every single wall is the same generic brown earth texture and you had to find and bomb specific points to create a path through to the end
Any phantasy star 2 dungeon past the first one, holy shit teleporters are cancer, i think that game has the worst dungeon of any game ever, a guide is required
McDonald's CEO from Persona 5. >time limit to beat him >round limit to defeat an employee >they infinitely respawn if not beaten within the limit
whoever designed it should be fired.
Oddly enough, his dungeon was the worst in vanilla P5. The first segment with getting the good enough ID went on a lot longer and the airlock puzzle at the end was a lot more complicated (though I kinda miss that part in royal, the airlock puzzle in Royal is barely a puzzle anymore).
is that the one with Ultima?
Yeah I think you gotta go back and redo it again for that to happen to.
For me it was less getting lost and just so much backtracking, it was just such a drab and samey locale that was mostly running around.
this one seems hard but all the teleporters have numbers so you just take them in order and everything is fine
None, i love dungeon crawlers.
I was wrong, there's absolutely nothing wrong about this one
it was so traumatic that i forgot about it.
>butt ugly
>dungeon music is just a 5 second droning loop
>so long it constitutes almost 15% of the game's entire length
That place legitimately gave me a headache.
Emulator Zone is worse imho.
I kinda enjoyed the place after i understood it
As much as I like SMT "...if", THIS SHIT CAN FRICK OFF! Whose Idea was it to make WAITING the main gimmick of a dungeon?!
This is worse than Ohtsuki's unintelligible class!
Came here to post this, ...If is a fun game but this is such a fricking slog
Yeah, it's frustrating. Everything else in the game is perfectly fine but you have one single 0/10 dungeon that forces you to waste an insane amount of time.
The one in vtmb
that one shitty dungeon in FFXV where all you had was that damn ring
Does that count as a dungeon?
In the same game, people generally hate the pitioss optional dungeon but I liked how unique and properly mazelike it felt, even if I had to deal with a lot of frustration with the actual platforming.
Otherwise, I remember P2 Innocent Sin on the psp having "theatre quests" or something like that that weren't in the original release. Did a few of them but Christ were the dungeons in them annoying, especially with the teleporting floor tiles that get you to the other side of the map or on another level.
I never did pitioss because the mere concept of a platforming dungeon in a game with no platforming elements turned me off.
Plus it involved using the Flying Car and that was such a pain in the ass to use when I tried it earlier that I swore to never use it again
JUST MAKE A MAP YOU DAMN BRAT
You are all like little babies
Castle Darkmoor
>hey, let's put 1000 enemies that can dispell your entire party
at least it gave cartographers a reason to exist
>can dispell your party through walls
the game really shits the bed from that point
The Fade in DA:O is absolute ass
The stock waterphone sound effect that plays every 10 seconds while in there makes me want to blow my brains out
I didn’t mind the fade. The deep roads were a much bigger pain in the balls imo.
>Completely annihilates all story momentum in your path
I always use a mod to skip the fade. It's so fricking tedious.
Eh, its fun figuring it out the first time and every subsequent run you should remember what order to do the worlds in, which makes it as easy as any other major quest in origins. People who use the 'skip the fade' mod are babies.
Deep caves in Underrail without a map was a real gameblock for me.
>tfw random encounter triggers right when you jump
just trigger a battle right before you jump as if you could somehow predict that instead of hoping it wouldn't happen
>not listening to the change in the disc spinning sound to tell you that a fight is loading
>not jumping on the spot and THEN pressing the direction a frame later so the game can't surprise-trigger a fight
ngmi
Late FF12 dungeons sucked in general. You can tell when the director left the project because then they just padded out the rest of the game with next to no story and some deliberately overly long dungeons that were just slogs to get through. Its when the game just becomes a long string of "Find the macguffin in this dungeon" one after the other.
Holy frick thank you.
I just finished getting through Ridorana and you've put into words exactly how it felt.
The opposite for me. Those were the dungeons I liked more.
The early dungeon also sucked (the mines, the one in the flying islan , the king tombs).
FF12 worked the best outside dungeons
Dear god yes. That giant tower was a painfully dully slog. And when you think you're at the end, you're cheerfully informed that you're at the half-way point.
I didnt find this place nearly as hard or annoying as i heard some people claim it was pretty straightforward
Dragon Quest 2's penultimate dungeon, before the castle, is pretty bad
>can*t use remove wall spell to skip
>that one rare monster that you had to kill something like 250 enemies in the crystal and then get a 50 chain of ghosts in order to spawn but even then it could spawn in one of 5 different places
>has a 1% chance of dropping the ultimate dagger
you can build a chain to get a better drop rate but you have to kill the enemies to spawn it with poison damage or they will frick your chain
or you could just RNG manipulate like a sane person
On the modern ports with auto-save you can just spawn the rare mob once and keep reloading your save upon entering the room it's in until you get the dagger, but I actually did it on the PS2 version of IZJS without auto-save on a real PS2. Thankfully though I got absurdly lucky and the dagger dropped after just a couple attempts.
So what would be the recipe for the worst dungeon ever?
>Maze like layout with no map
>Trap rooms
>Tons of dead ends with not even loot or clues or anyhing
>Locked doors that require backtracking to open
>Encounter rate out the ass
>When you open one door it locks another
>Conveyer belts/ice that makes you slide in a specific direction
What else?
>limited sight, nearsighted viewing distance, lack of light, fog, darkness, blindness, visual impairment, low visual acuity
>fake objects/environments, mirages, hallucinations
>impaired movement speed
>misleading sounds and noises, lack of sound, deafness
>environments look exactly the same, copypasted rooms, no landmarks
>unsolicited teleportation, not being able to go back the way you came
>endless, procedual environmental generation
>non-stop swarms of enemies
>race against time, everything becomes more difficult, enemies become harder to kill and more dangerous
>convoluted, unfair, nonsensical puzzles
Every room and all the walls look all the same.
No save points. So you gotta do it all in one sitting.
Nah. Regular autosave points with only one save slot and a chance of getting stuck/permafricked. The whole dungeon is 120 hours into the game. Rare but existing save-corrupting bugs optional but welcome.
Telepad gimmick
are you familiar with the spiral of content school of level design?
like that?
When is Cleve's Wizardry engine gonna be released so we can do shit like this
I remember you from that thread
non-eukleidian geometry with all of the above
also alternatively hidden teleporters to locations that look the same but aren't (so you don't even notice when you've teleported)
>non-eukleidian geometry with all of the above
Guess what anon, I have good news for you :o)
https://www.digitalmzx.com/show.php?id=1817
I hope you like taking notes!
>Underwater section
>Escort section
>What else?
The shit from Wrath of the Righteous where you have to rotate your camera constantly since certain things are only visible & accessible from certain angles.
>think about replaying Wrath
>remember act 4 and never touch it again
If you are gonna talk about Wrath of the Righteous, you gotta be talking about Enigma. That place is a giant nightmare of dumb puzzles.
Also bonus shout out to the Engima adjacent "dungeon" with all those fricking plate dungeons. They might not be half as bad if they'd just give it a special UI specifically for them instead of how you do it ingame.
i liked enigma, but i was using guides for the puzzle tho. It was a comfy end-game dungeon with nice atmosphere and music.
The puzzles were what makes it suck.
The boss fight at the end was pretty sick though. Shame most of the other bosses were basically just "tank and spank" for lack of a better phrase.
>Tons of dead ends with not even loot or clues or anyhing
Except for one dead end that looks exactly the same as the rest yet has chest with best equipment in game(for better effect you can't backtrack to that maze)
Boy you must have HATED the Chrysler Building
The last dungeon in Tales of Arise.
Honestly the whole final story arc feels rushed as frick, and yet they made sure to make it feel as slow as possible by giving the final dungeon long ass corridors and combat encounters with way too much HP.
The whole pacing of arise, on macro and micro levels, felt terrible to me.
>Calaglia is what, four or five map screens wide, you go into the "castle" which is a single basic spiral, and liberate it.
>Second zone whose name I forget is over incredibly quickly too
>The tower dungeon of that second zone was also phyiscally tiny.
I think it's compounded by the fact that in modern Tales, you have larger screens, so you're loading between screens less often, and going between screens is what triggers enemy respawns. That plus less puzzles in the dungeons means you get way less respawns to fight, which means that if you play efficiently the dungeons feel very short.
The midsection of the plot was decent, but I don't need to explain to you how dire the final villain was.
I personally liked the length and "slog" feeling of the last dungeon, but that was in part because the earliest dungeons left me thinking I'd been served one fricking slider.
Without save states this place is miserable.
I think it's dropped in terms of nightmarishness thanks to the Pixel Remaster adding auto saves and also a place to fully recharge HP and MP. I think the 3D remake also added the fully recharge HP and MP place. Though that was balanced out with making the final boss even harder by adding two tentacles, one that damages the whole party and one that heals, plus bosses attack twice in that game.
It's not that bad. Just those 4 bosses at the end then the final boss that makes it bullshit, because they're just rng and praying you win. After hearing so much about this dungeon, it was surprising at how much easier I found it.
Hardest dungeon in the game is that dividing enemy one before you get the weapon to deal with them.
The roided out airship makes it a fair challenge. I only had to backtrack twice to it on my first playthrough. You should have posted any mini dungeon after the first.
>playing it after the map was added
You didn't beat it.
The comfiest place in all Underrail.
Tartarus - Persona 3
Seraphic Blue - Benedicta's Tears, a massive slog of a dungeon with encounters that can frick your shit sideways (AKA killing a certain enemy locks your commands other than attack). Only saving grace is the Return Trees that act as checkpoints so you can backtrack.
Blackreach in skyrim.
No significant treasure or any quests except for that crimson nirnroot one.
Last dungeon in Vesperia(taquaron?).
It has nothing interesting going on for it while simultaneously being bland and shit to navigate
I was expecting it to be some giant labrynth but it turned out every walkway that wasn't a straight line to the top was completely optional. I guess they ran out of time or realized nobody that plays modern jarpigs wants an actual dungeon
>Modern
>15 years old
Anon...
moron, he's right. Games have been pretty bad for a while now. Just because you weren't born back then doesn't make it not modern.
>Just because it’s not modern doesn't make it not modern.
Words have meanings anon
I can't think of one dungeon in Tales of Symphonia that I liked. All of them felt like busywork, a chore to get through. Very simple puzzles. The music in the game was great, except in dungeons, where it got old real quick.
Why do you even play RPGs? Navigating big, complex dungeons is the meat of the entire genre. Some of you are such babies you start crying if a dungeon takes longer than 30 minutes
Dungeon Crawlers aren't RPGs
Baiting morons aside, I don't think anyone here is arguing complexity is bad. I see a few posts complaining about oversimplicity like
Seems more about what the dungeons contain and have you overcome rather than how they're laid out.
>Navigating poorly designed dungeons is the meat of the entire genre
The key to baiting is pretending to be moronic, not "going full moron".
>waaah don't challenge me or make me work for something this is bad design I shouldn't need to put effort into anything!
>RPGs
>challenging
Again, they key to baiting is "pretending", not "proving".
Arcanum's Black Mountain Mines
>you go there at like level 10 and it's mandatory, locking off the rest of the game until you do it
>it's nothing but tunnels and small rooms
>the only enemies are level 30 ore golems
>ore golems are unbelievably tanky, requiring upwards of a hundred bullets from the guns available at that point
>ore golems are largely immune to elemental damage
>ore golems break your melee weapons when you hit them
>ore golems hit like trucks and typically one-hit you or any of your party members
>ore golems have a frickton of Action Points for some reason and can walk down a whole hallway and punch your head off in one turn
>every fricking room or corridor has at least one ore golem in it
the only solution is to turn the game to Real Time mode, because despite have 1 million AP they walk incredibly slowly, and kite the shit out of them while either spamming the Harm spell or hosing them down with literally hundreds of bullets. It is absolutely fricking miserable.
you can totally avoid all ore golems in that though. but yeah that segment definitely assumes you have the combat figured out and maybe did most of the side quests. i was probably level 17 when i got there
The underground cave in FFX-2 where the roof, floor, and every single wall is the same generic brown earth texture and you had to find and bomb specific points to create a path through to the end
The Ice Mine in Arcana, it's not a difficult or complicated dungeon, but I hate this place.
Any phantasy star 2 dungeon past the first one, holy shit teleporters are cancer, i think that game has the worst dungeon of any game ever, a guide is required
The dungeon in BoF1 that has buttons that makes the room spin, and everything looks identical.
some of those golden sun 2 dungeons were annoying af as a kid
McDonald's CEO from Persona 5.
>time limit to beat him
>round limit to defeat an employee
>they infinitely respawn if not beaten within the limit
whoever designed it should be fired.
>The only fight that required you to think even the tiniest amount in the whole game
Come on man
Some I can see. The Elemental Rock dungeons especially were all big mazes with puzzle gimmicks that looked the same
Oddly enough, his dungeon was the worst in vanilla P5. The first segment with getting the good enough ID went on a lot longer and the airlock puzzle at the end was a lot more complicated (though I kinda miss that part in royal, the airlock puzzle in Royal is barely a puzzle anymore).
The shadow dungeon ended my first run of Symphonia. Frick those shadows.
Song of Nephilim from Xenosaga 1 is high on my shit list. If you don't have Erde Kaiser by then, the enemies are completely unbalanced.
It looks so simple...
just turn right
once you eventually leave by doing this, just go straight
Take your meds anon
The dungeons were the only part of FF12 I liked.
I love how the in-game map is just a drawing of the crystal from the outside with a YOU ARE HERE indicator.