Sure thing Lance may have this monstrosity on his team but hey at least poliwrath got +10 base attack!
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Ape Out Shirt $21.68 |
Radical red is a joke
Sure thing Lance may have this monstrosity on his team but hey at least poliwrath got +10 base attack!
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Ape Out Shirt $21.68 |
Yes. The AI deserves better tools than the player because it can't strategize anywhere near as well. This is how every video game since the dawn of time has worked.
Pokemon players are just used to steamrolling shitty teams with their overlevelled starter mashing A and spamming items in the rare case something goes wrong.
Yep. I'll never understand the whinging over being 'underleveled' against a braindead AI.
It’s against the spirit of the game, the entire point of the franchise is
>See that monster? You can use it
Also Boss battles don’t work in pokemons systems
That has never been the case. Even Gen 1 had Mew who was impossible to obtain in game for a long time after release and only became available via limited offers.
The actual core theme of Pokemon is 'you raise a bunch of monsters to become the best' not your moronic fanfic.
What better way than showing you're the best, than defeating one of the most powerful people in the region wielding a literal god?
>Uh AKTUALLY you can't get this Pokemon (that you never fight against anyway and isn't even counted in the Pokedex for completion) so that's the same thing as unobtainable boss creatures 🙂
You could have tried Eternamax but no you have to be a complete fricking disingenuous moron about it
>immediately shifts the goalposts
You claimed that if there's a Pokemon you can see, you can use it. Tell that to all the kids who saw Mew in Corocoro or the movies and couldn't get it on their own cartridge of RBY.
>BUT I CAN USE IT VIA GLITCHES AND CHEATS
You could do the same thing with RR's Primal Dialga.
There's no need to bring up Eternamax or even things like the Ultimate Dragon, real Arceus, etc. but thanks since that destroys your own shitty argument even more
>b-b-but the movies that came out afterwords and thus had no influence on the initial design
>muh multimedia franchise…
B8
What npc trainer in Gen 1 used Mew again? Remind me. I seem to be drawing a blank here.
And it's frickin sucked because of it
Onix's issue isn't so much the abysmal stat spread as it is that it has two 4x weaknesses on its SpDef. Bellsprout can clap it with Vine Whip
Exactly. It was designed to be the first boss pokemon with an exploitable weakness for kids to figure out and clap.
So when you catch this giant fricking rock snake to use for yourself, and figure out that Squirtle has a higher physical attack stat, it feels bad.
This has nothing to do with you being able to catch it or not though. Onix sucks because it’s the ace of the first gym.
A better argument is that Onix looks too cool for it’s stats and the time you face it in the game.
Starmie was among the most OP shit in RBY and it was the ace of the second gym. Onix's stats just play suck for no reason.
Pokemon simply had more of a "traditional" RPG progression in the earlier games. Not every Pokemon is meant to be viable for the most end levels of the area. Some Pokemon are meant to fill aesthetic or immersion roles while others are meant to be used in the highest levels of battle.
Onix simply represented that "roadblock" enemy that later becomes fodder to show a simple form of progression.
Maybe you're illiterate or you just didn't read the post you read, so I'll reiterate for you. The SECOND GYM has a Starmie, one of the most powerful Pokemon in the game, it's even better than the aces of the next 2 gyms. There's absolutely no reason Onix couldn't have been better.
>dood onix gets reused as an enemy later on muh traditional rpg dood
Shut the frick up
Onix is literally weaker than the Geodude Brock sends out first, it's arguably weaker than the Sandshrew and the Diglett on the shitty camper you fight before Brock. No one in late game uses muh Starmie or muh Raichu as "fodder" but you will see Onix on normal trainers as soon as Mt. fricking Moon because it's a terrible Pokemon that shouldn't have been an ace or should've gotten considerably better stats.
>Onix is literally weaker than the Geodude Brock sends out first
Because it's literally meant to showcase you a "roadblock" in the simplest method
>BUT ONIX ISN'T PVP VIABLE REEE
Because it was never meant to be.
How is it a roadblock if it's weaker than Geodude?
Fricking moron
Because it's meant to be a barrier showcasing simple problem solving, taking stats into account, and taking typing into account.
Onix teaches the player a lesson through basic RPG convictions.
>basic rpg convictions
Oh good I'm talking to an ESL moron
>Because it's meant to be a barrier showcasing simple problem solving, taking stats into account, and taking typing into account
Would any of that change if it were an actually good Pokemon?
>Would any of that change if it were an actually good Pokemon?
Maybe. Maybe not.
That doesn't change the fact that Early Pokemon games were designed like traditional RPGs. And that means having "tutorial monsters" in spite of Pokemon's collection aspects.
>that Early Pokemon games were designed like traditional RPGs
I genuinely hope you fall with an erection and it breaks off you dumb homosexual. No, they were not. I don't even know what that fricking means, 'traditional RPGs' whatever you're referring to unless it's SMT didn't allow you to use the monsters you fought nor is "Degraded Boss" a trope that's exclusive to traditional RPGs. Stop using this, this is the gayest possible justification for why Onix is weak and your whole shit about it being a "roadblock/tutorial monster" is true of literally every other first gym in the franchise.
It's just shit game design and unnecessarily shafting a cool Pokemon design for LITERALLY no reason.
>No, they were not.
Yes, they were. You can deflect, plug your ears, and say whatever you want. It doesn't change the fact that I'm right and you're wrong.
Not every Pokemon has to be viable in a battle Not every Pokemon needs to be viable in a battle. Game Freak has demonstrated this time and time again, both on purpose and by accident.
>It doesn't change the fact that I'm right and you're wrong
Fantastic argument, you sure showed me.
>Not every Pokemon has to be viable in a battle
I would expect Pokemon to have abilities and stats fitting of their design. That's part of any decent world building.
A flopping fish is weak, makes sense.
A big powerful dragon is strong and hits hard, makes sense.
A huge 20 foot rock snake...doesn't hit as hard as a pigeon.
Onix didn't have to be GOOD. But there's no reason it should've been so fricking weak. None. And your schizo ESL rambling about muh traditional RPGs doesn't change that.
>A huge 20 foot rock snake...doesn't hit as hard as a pigeon.
One of the strongest special attackers in the entire game is a big bulky bear with giant claws. Somehow it hits harder on the special than a three headed pseudolegend dragon based on a Japanese god and a kaiju
Why does an Antlion 1st stage mon hit harder on the physical side than a Luchador Condor?
We can be here all day questioning why certain Pokemon have higher/lower stats than first stage little rats and fish and cub bears.
Yes, I know with nugen shit and 1000s of Pokemon you'll get weird stat discrepancies.
It's odd to shift the paradigm from "MUH GEN 1" "MUH GEN 1 TRADITIONAL RPG" because Gen 1 actually IS fairly consistent with its stats. Hence why my examples were Magikarp and Dragonite you illiterate troglodyte.
With the exception of Onix who gets shafted for no fricking reason.
But how is it a fricking BARRIER if it's weaker than the pokemon that comes before it?
It also has the same type as Geodude, so what the frick does Onix teach that Geodude doesn't
Are you illiterate, Black person?
>the only thing that matters on a Pokemon is the attacking stat
No wonder you're seething so hard
Speak for yourself motherfricker
This. Also threads like these just further prove my theory that Pokegays don't actually play video games outside of Pokemon. Shit like this is just common place in most other games and Pokemon is so babby-tier it's almost insulting. Literally just gitgud, OP.
>Replying to yourself
>couldn't come up with a response in 4 hours
Oh no no no
>thinking everyone disagreeing with your point is the same person replying to themselves
Schizophrenia.
>Shit like this is just common place in most other games
No it isn't! You've never played a video game other than Pokemon you lying homosexual! The closest you'll get in a real RPG is something like Mem Aleph in SMT Strange Journey forcing you to not use the game's main gimmick, or Lucifer in SMT3 forcing you to build a party with Pierce, and both of those are much more approachable than Radical Reddit throwing some AG horseshit team sweeper at you out of nowhere at the end of the E4.
Every single boss and enemy in SMT has vastly outsized health pools compared to what you can get, and bosses also often just have better stats and skills you wouldn't be able to access for a long time (mostly because they're demon-specific and you wouldn't be able to unlock said fusion until well after the fight).
If SMT was like Pokemon the bosses would all have like 200 HP, every enemy would have 100 HP, the game wouldn't end when your main character dies, you could save anywhere (would make a huge difference in Nocturne and SJ) and so much other shit you take for granted because you only play Pokemon.
Their health pools and stats/skills are to make up for the fact that they're both less versatile than your party, lack the synergy that a party would have together and generally have worse turn economy. Pokemon is designed differently enough that the same design doesn't necessarily translate well. You have the same turn economy as your opponents, similar stats and the same amount of potential options, 24 maximum moves on each side. If you just make the opponent better in every way, you get situations like trying to beat Pika Cup R2 with rentals, where you're practically gambling just to have a chance to win, and it's not fun for fights to be no better than a gamble.
>Their health pools and stats/skills are to make up
That is the entire point of the argument. The AI has to have SOMETHING over the player in order to be engaging to fight against. Pokemon hands EVERYTHING to the player as
shows.
>If you just make the opponent better in every way
A player can still utilize strategies the AI can't and bring team synergy that AI can't possibly deal with in every scenario. Not to mention that losing in Pokemon does not have any setbacks and changing out team members is fairly easy, especially in Radical Red.
>stadium with rentals
Terrible comparison as that locks you into a fairly limited number of strategies because you can't alter your Pokemon's stats or moves like you could in a romhack/more regular game.
Could a Pokemon game that expects more of the player be badly designed/unfun to play, sure, but I would at least take something that requires a bit of thought to get past instead of mindlessly mashing A.
>The AI is a set challenge therefore it needs to cheat to be harder instead of just giving it halfway decent strategy
If Clover can do it why can't radical reddit?
Clover cheats, newbie
I forgot about this but I give it a pass because it's meant to be funny
>Literally "It's OK when Clover does it"
have a nice day. Make it slow
>Deathorus used Knock-Off!
wow so hard
Schroedinger's difficulty LMAO
>clover is such a good game! no moronic cheating or anything! such well design! so hard, you have to actually think about fights!
>ok but here's an example of the game blatantly cheating
>WOOOOOOW DUDE JUST UMMM LOL ITS NOT HARD AT ALL DUDE JUST USE ONE OF THE TRILLIONS OF BUSTED SMOGON MOVES YOU CAN USE ON THESE MINMAXED FAKEMONS WOOOOOOW HOW COULD ANYONE EVER FIND THIS DIFFICULT WOOOOOOOW
It's hard when it needs to be.
It's easy when it needs to be.
Truly the greatest hack evarrr! Narwhal chungus at midnight!
The vast majority of Clover's "jokes" that aren't HAHA REMEMBER THIS LE FUNNY POP CULTURE REFERENCE were considered wojak tier back in the day, newhomosexual
You will never be an oldgay
>using eviolite is “blatantly cheating”
You do realize it’s level 99 because it has dogshit (no pun intended) base stats, and needs to compensate for them, right? If you actually played the game, you’d realize it’s not that hard to beat.
I'm simply saying it's definitely possible to make the boss design shitty by giving boss stuff that you can't reasonably counter, or by making the stuff that counters said boss overly specific. In other games, the player has more objective and obvious advantages, it's uneven by design. In optimal conditions, Pokemon is meant to be even, although mainline games definitely handicap themselves a lot to give the player the advantage. That said, there needs to be some flexibility or it turns too much into a puzzle game. That Primal Dialga looks really annoying since it's also in part of a team, but maybe they balanced the fight around the use of items so it's something I'd have to try before I can say if it's done poorly or not.
>In optimal conditions, Pokemon is meant to be even
Why?
Just because that's the way Pokemon has been supposedly designed for years does not make it 'optimal'. And it isn't, clicking A on one move to beat everything in my path is not fun or engaging gameplay.
The main games don't just handicap themselves to give the player the advantage, the games are structured with already a hard predilection for the player and then needlessly gives the player even more advantages on top of that.
>there needs to be some flexibility or it turns too much into a puzzle game
You have possibly trillions of different permutations of moves, abilities, Pokemon, etc. I think there's pretty decent flexibility. Are you calling any game which forces you to seriously think about viable ways around a problem to be a 'puzzle' game?
There's also plenty of ways to deal with the Dialga from what I know, and Easy Mode for RR allows you to use items.
Yeah, Pokemon fans don't really play other video games let alone RPGs. The concept of a boss having tools they don't have access to sounds unfair to them.
Pokemon isn't designed around boss-only mechanics and abilities
Right, it's designed around ensuring little Timmy (23 years old) never loses and doesn't start screaming and pounding the floor and so he can only play Pokemon because that's the only video game that accommodates him so much
You're about a quarter way there to understanding why and how AI are given advantages. Maybe one day you radical redditors will understand that this isn't how it's done.
Modern Pokemon games have so many sources of exp that you have to make a great effort not to overlevel yourself. Then you give yourself even more restrictions to make the battles more interesting, like the hardcore nuzlocke+ rules in picrel.
In SV, I avoided optional trainers and wild mons after I got the EQ TM right before Kofu's gym because I didn't want to steamroll the rest of the game. Even casual playthroughs of the hard romhacks aren't all that difficult because you have a lot of freedom in teambuilding and the AI still isn't very smart.
I usually just do monotype runs and have a pretty fun time as a result. Fairy-mono was surprisingly challenging for SV
It's lazy. You made a hack where you changed or made new movesets, abilities, stats and even added a ton of fakemon in terms of false mega evos. All of this to make a good competitive style hack.
You have the opportunity to make a fun creative endboss that is still difficult. Really get imaginative with your teambuilding and what the enemy is going to do for their team...I wonder what cool strats the developer made with all 1000~ pokemon rebalanced.
Legendary spam.
Just a wall of fricking stats. THAT'S the best you can do for your end game gauntlet??? Just pokemon that outspeed you and spam stab/coverage moves??
How is that any different from the normal games that just use pseudos, dragons and end game mons?
The most creative thing in the ENTIRE elite four is giving poliwrath surging strikes with swift swim..which is just making him another hyperoffensive stab spammer.
It's just: here is pheromosa. Here is primal dialga. Here is kyogre. all of them are are faster and hit harder.
Using OP's example...you wanted to give lance a dragon/steel type.
Okay. It's a good typing with a lot of resistances and only two weaknesses. Makes sense for an end game pokemon. Hisuian goodra fits the bill. A psuedo that's rarely seen and also very new to the series so a lot of people won't be expecting it. It has overcoat, maybe place it in a weather based dragon team? Could be unique. Maybe buff overcoat so it even gives the benefits of weather like +DEF in snow or +SPD in sand, it's your fricking hack and you already did moronic shit like this already! Frick gamefreak is doing it now themselves!
Maybe Sap Sipper? Throw in a tough pokemon that's weak to grass and just have goodra here switch in when you know they're going to use it. Then have goodra use flamethrower! Insult to injury, have a fricking drought user. Frick it you're already giving these elite four members pokemon that aren't their type specialty, give lance mega charizard y with a buffed drought for infinite sunny day to set this shit up early. people are even MORE baited to use solar beam or solar blade to feed goodra. damn! clever!
Maybe goodra as a lead with gooey? Buff gooey for some bullshit shenanigans to cripple the player's fast user?
nah lets just give him dialga because he hits harder and faster.
ok. kinda lame but maybe make it a double battle with some cool telepathy shenanigans? a cheesy stall based pressure dialga set?
no? just hits harder and faster?
okay which form are you going to use then? i imagine origin since it's a bit more minmaxed as he already hits hard with special attacks.
primal? oh from PMD. So he's going to have a cool ability based on that series right? No? Just...just an ability that makes it so everything does neutral damage to him so the cool typing combo is irrelevant in the first place.
Okay well what does he sacrifice from the other two forms?
Nothing? So the most boring possible outcome. Now do this for every fricking pokemon in the elite four
yeah that sounds fricking awful and I'm glad they went with Dialga instead of whatever shit you wrote
it's just a start and it already creates a scenario that is infinitely more interesting than FAST STRONG STAB SPAMMER.
"oh jeez i wonder what coverage moves this pokemon has??" is the only thought process you have in these fights. it's fricking lame and boring
>his Pokemon had fricking held items of all things
this reminds me. don't even get me started on how EVERY OTHER fricking pokemon in the RR elite four has focus sash as a lazy attempt to "fix" frail pokemon or have items that just boost stab.
First off, the Primal Dialga on Lance's team isn't 'stronger and faster'. It's built like a tank, with RestTalk, and Roar of Time being able to phaze out mons. The entire point of it is that he'll usually get Stealth Rocks out and start shuffling your team around while also doing lots of damage. That already sounds more creative and hard to deal with and opens up a variety of strategies to beat it. Maybe I want to take away its ability? Maybe I can Taunt it or use some move to shut down its ability to heal itself. Or maybe I could use Copycat to mimic Roar of Time and use it to frick up Lance (this is a more common strat than you'd think). What if I used a Pokemon immune to phazing and began setting up?
Second off, Hisuian Goodra lmao. So, your master plan for Goodra being a good Pokemon for Lance is, "I send in a Grass Pokemon to beat a grass weak mon, he swaps to a Hisuian Goodra, and I guess I'll just stay in (???) and then it will use Flamethrower". Or maybe give Lance a sun team for some reason even though sun doesn't synergize well at all with dragon types and hope the player happens to have Solar Beam with which to use on...a team that's full of dragons (?????). You're grasping at a lot of straws here and this all sounds objectively worse than 'give Lance a decently strong and balanced team, of which Dialga is a part' because it's considerably less focused.
I don't even disagree there could be more going on with the E4 teams, but having them being overly complex to deal with would make it too much as they are part of a gauntlet (especially with how Hardcore mode starts adding terrains and shit to them) or be utterly nonfunctional/relying on shitty hypotheticals as explained above.
>is the only thought process you have in these fights
Not really. It's 'how do I deal with all of these powerful opponents in a way that lets me beat this 5 trainer gauntlet with just 6 Pokemon'? That's the actually interesting part.
He was comparing Hisuian Goodra to Dialga, not Primal Dialga to the other forms. He is right, throwing restricted Pokemon into teams is just not Pokemon encounter design and ball of stats is lazy design/
Somehow my initial response was tripping a filter kind of baffled.
has to do with the goodragay filters
we are still suffering the consequences
Curious to know what 'genius' strategies I'm sure you could come up with for the AI to use
AI can't use very complicated or weird strats without either becoming terribly easy (if say you tried to design a team where the AI uses Baton Pass, any player could trivially shut it down) or being unreliable at best
The 'new and creative changes' are there for the player to take advantage of to defeat super strong enemies by endgame, and even then, Lorelei uses a rain/snow team, the other E4 members cover their weaknesses and synergize well while also using a variety of defensive and offensive threats
>How is that any different from the normal games that just use pseudos, dragons and end game mons
I don't know if you've seen any Pokemon E4s lately but...they largely don't. Maybe the dragon E4 member or the champion might have one or two. The champion of the most recent games uses fricking Gogoat and Avalugg.
People were praising Kieran despite having an objectively dogshit team where most of them had common 4x weaknesses and horrible movesets because his Pokemon had fricking held items of all things
That is how low the bar is
The only way to make the ai teams interesting would be if the entire game was double battles
>The AI deserves better tools than the player because it can't strategize anywhere near as well.
in pokemon? here, let me design the ultimate AI for a pokemon game
>give it protect/substitute to scout what the gamer does
>swap pokemon if a super effective move is expected
>use set up/status moves if at full health against at type weak to yours
there, now the AI is as good as 95% of the players
Every Pokémon and form with over 720 bst, official or not, should get removed from existence
Do Radical Reddit trannies really?
This is not a difficulty rom hack, this is straight up unfair bullshit
They really do. Note the thing comes with the rest+talk set
At first, we steamrolled the AI with overpowered legendaries. Now we have to deal with the consequences.
Also, if people can beat shit like this via nuzlockes and mono-type runs, then it’s never as hard as one would think.
>An EPIC Pokemon Mystery Dungeon reference
Oh. My. Arceus. Does he also use the amazeballs 61oFE03ZFAY OST for all those nostalgic feefees???
I don't think it's a reference. He just took whatever sprite was available for his epic team. I'd be surprised if a PMD fan made a romhack as shit as Radical Red.
PMD is garbage, people only like it because "muh ending made me cry when I was a kid"
Don't forget the "sad" ending thing that happens is that the MC leaves and then returns 10 minutes later
When your average Disney goyslop movie is more hardcore than Pokemon games because important characters actually die in those, you know you're dealing with shit
PMDgays are mostly furgays who like it because of wish fulfillment, just look at any PMD community
Even worse, the isekai bs only adds more bullshit to a plot that's already full of holes
It's still better than the mainline trash, especially these shit quality romhacks.
>pokemon fans when they actually have a chance of losing against a boss in a video game
It really exacerbates their inferiority complex
>Redditbob
Go back
>Has Speed Boost even in Hardcore Mode
>Lady Gaga
>rapebird
Go make another gay mega man comic.
>shit mod wienersuckers when they have to beat the boss by cheesing the AI, like the rest of the bosses in the mod
excited_redditbob.jpg
Nah I beat them normally, sounds like you're just a weak homosexual
This
Besides RR doesnt even have a lot of non canon Pokemon. This might be the only one and thats because people actually asked for it. Also RR has always been a difficulty hack and a proof of concept as far as how much the 3rd gen engine is actually capable of.
No wonder some people seethe at Cynthia so hard.
The better comparison would be how this board treats Ultra Necrozma and Volo
>WTF...A LEGENDARY THAT ACTUALLY HAS THE POWER AND SPEED A LEGENDARY SHOULD HAVE AND I CAN'T JUST LOB A MASTER BALL TO FINISH IT IN ONE TURN??
>NONONONONOOOOOOO!!! WHY IS HE ALLOWED TO HAVE 8 POKEMON AND I ONLY GET 6? NOT FAIR WAAAAAAHHHH MWWUMMY HELP
no, people like cynthia because it makes it "feel" like the game is "hard" but unless you're a complete moron you can't actually lose against her. DStards like having pretend challenge but when there's actual challenge they start seething.
If you don't over level or abuse setup moves she is still very difficult.
If you're a toddler, sure
You need to be 18 or older to post on this board though kiddo. Make sure to have mummy change your diapers soon
>reddit spacing
Diantha is also hard if you don't overlevel and don't use setup moves. I don't get your point.
I never played gen 6.
My point is that she is great as a champion and offer a good challenge as long as you don't cheese the game.
>Gankerbob
Stay
>you will never face Ultra Necrozma in surprise for the first time
okay but the first thing i did was set up my good old pal bulk up agility power trip corviknight so it just died in one hit
game is a joke, you suck, gg no re
>buff Ledian by 25 points
>it all goes to Attack
>reduce other stats to make the Attack higher
I hate modders so much it's fricking unreal
All of the weaker mons they buffed/changed completely are still outclassed. Re: Ledian, Bug/Fighting with decent stats Mach Punch and Iron Fist is cool and probably more serviceable in-game than vanilla, but you're still better off running shit like Heracross or even Hitmonchan really. Pokemon are either good because they're versatile or they excel at one particular thing. None of the shitters they touched are either
oh i'm aware i just have autism for how ledian gets handled in fan prjects
So do I. Ledian is hard though. He was dead on arrival with that typing and stat spread
Having Iron Fist as an HA also throws people off I think, because they overfocus on that aspect of the mon. Bug/Fighting is a change I don't disagree with, but the Moon dex entry talks about how it emphasizes quality over quantity, while almost every other dex entry talks about it using starlight as energy. imo just based on dex entries it should really be getting either Skill Link and more multi-hit moves, or reworked into a special attacker.
i liked how inclement emerald handled ledian, giving it aerilate meant i spent a large chunk of the game using comet punch for stab which felt very thematically appropriate.
of course ledian did end up falling off later in the game, but that's the intended design of early gen bug types.
I wish move-changing abilities like Aerilate got more distribution
Incoming shill post, but I liked how Zen Mode approached fixing Ledian in HGSS specifically. He changed the typing to Bug/Fighting but didn't mess with the stats and changed Ledian's moveset to shift from earlygame attacker to late game supportmon, though giving it Baton Pass and Power Trick was basically cheating imo. In the end it was atleast viable for the campaign without being a by-the-book sweeper like Heracross
I've seen his video and for as conservative as the change made are, it has such a deep impact on how Ledian plays
yeah radical red is unnecessarily hard boss fights
Yeah, welcome to Radical Reddit aka the second-worst romhack ever made after Clovshit.
Sage will never be finished
Sage is also dogshit. Ganker has never made a good pokemon game, and rarely produced anything of value.
It's worse because it's full of unfunny garbage that was dated as soon as the game released. It's not funny, it's not fun to play, the region sucks shit, the "story" is half-assed, and the postgame is a waste of time.
>Clover is full of unfunny datef garbage
Yeah because RR with Jojo references sure isn't
>a few references to Jojo
>an entire game filled with hundreds of unfunny moronic memes on par with wojakcancer
They're both bad, but I can tell which is worse
What makes Clover better is the amount of balancing and creativity involved, as well as the music. RR just shoves Pokémon into existing niches and plays like a boss rush. The QoL is great, but you're just playing to solve problems that have already been solved with amplified versions of Pokémon you've already used. This need to buff things not only doesn't work equally (which is okay), but it ironically starts to strip mons on what makes them unique. If what you want is competitive battles, just get on a simulator and fight people.
Clover, by contrast, was designed by autists for autists, with typings and gimmicks that don't already exist. Playing Cloverdown feels really different from any official metagame or even CAP. It does a great job of establishing its identity in the battles, which is the part of the game that matters most. The game itself is also great in this regard because every mon is designed to actually be able to use whatever is in its toolkit. It helps that there are none of the power-up gimmicks that started with Gen 6. RR is more like a brain teaser, clover is what I would describe as actually experiencing a video game. If it had RR's level of QoL available once the difficulty starts to spike, I don't think there'd be any question at all of its position as the best hack of all time
I didn't really care to read this because it sounds like you're trying to compare the quality of the two games, which I couldn't give less of a frick about as I think they're both shit
I don't care how much 'love' or 'passion' was put into Clover it plays like a 2010 tumblrcore invader zim kid's pathetic attempt at humor with ZINGERS and EPIC MEMES shoved absolutely everywhere. Radical Red has a few Jojo jokes here and there. Both can frick themselves but one is so obviously worse it's not even worth an actual discussion
>It helps that there are none of the power-up gimmicks that started with Gen 6
That's because every Clovermon is already basically a mega
it's also funny to me you're harping on about 'identity' when every Clovermon has 50 different things in their bag of minmaxed tricks to the point where they all begin to meld together and barely anything feels unique beyond its typing or whatever decade old joke it's supposed to be.
>look at ME i can run trick room and shell smash and recovery and i can be a fast sweeper, a bulky tank, a pure defensive mon, all of my 4 abilities are gamebreaking, i have 10 different broken 100 BP moves to choose from and super coverage and
That's usually a point of criticism for fangames with fakemon, that they turn them all into busted sweepers, but obviously when Clover does it it's ok.
Also
>it's ok when clover does le unfunny pop culture reference
>it's ok when clover says it's too difficult and that if you complain you're a baby (which is hilarious given how clover is easier than your average drayano hack, let alone games like RR or inclement emerald)
>it's ok when clover puts 252 EVs in every stat
>it's ok when clover is almost entirely linear with zero sidequests before postgame
>it's ok when clover shoves 5000000 trannies in
>it's ok when clover has an epic anime save the world plot with hamfisted exposition and meta autism where the bad guy uses the legendary to destroy the universe
Clover is just your average mediocre hack with too much time put into it, but only praised by morons because it was made by other morons from the same site.
>b-but the music is good th-
Yeah, the tracks that aren't just stolen remixes.
>muh Cloverdow-
even the average clovertroon doesn't defend that dogshit
You're one of the 10 people who actually play that, which means you're also a shill and/or one of the creators. Either way, have a nice day, you won't be missed.
Good lord you are so fricking mad lmao
Context is important. Clover cheats in a way that you're not even going to be aware of as a player, and raw strength of the fakemons doesn't matter because regular Pokemon aren't even available. OC legendaries with broken stats and custom moves/abilities will always be fricking cringe and immediately obvious.
>Clover cheats in a way that you're not even going to be aware of as a player
Oh well that makes it le heckin good and wholesome! Instead of being upfront that I'm fighting bullshit, it instead has to be some soiboi cuck underhanded tactic homosexualry that I'm just supposed to guess is cheating its ass off. Wow, so much better!
>raw strength of the fakemons doesn't matter
I love this. You completely dropped your point about IDENTITY, CLOVER HAS SUCH GOOD IDENTITY and then tried to pivot away with this gay bullshit. No, it does matter when everything in the game is some boring shitty broken sweeper with the same setup moves and the same hazards and the same recovery and the same support moves and they can do basically everything.
>OC legendaries with broken stats and custom moves/abilities
Woah, so like Clovenix and every other bullshit legend in Clover?
Oh but I guess it's okay because the game just starts handing them all to you on a silver platter. Clearly, Clover is such a hardcore and le difficult game eh fellow redditor?
>Everything does le same thing
You didn't play Clover
>It's worse because it's full of unfunny garbage that was dated as soon as the game released.
At least the mons aren’t a hundred wojak variations like in modern Ganker. If anything, Clover’s dated memes are a time capsule back to this site’s better days.
Clover is better than RR THOUGH
We already went over this last time and you played none of those games, RPGBlack person.
He refutes his own point by explaining other factors of the game make the game difficult like unit placement. Also its a non argument. So if rpg games are supposedly easy, shouldnt we be making better rpgs instead of making non sequiturs about keeping things that way?
If you believe Pokemon games are easy, you should be supportive of romhackers increasing the difficulty instead of acting like romhackers are troon idiots for rectifying the problem made by Gamefreak?
You people confuse me. I guess you really dont know what you want.
>You people confuse me. I guess you really dont know what you want.
That's not true, Anon. They know exactly what they want.
They want to complain.
>So if rpg games are supposedly easy, shouldnt we be making better rpgs instead of making non sequiturs about keeping things that way?
Because you'd have people b***h about difficulty and not being able to "w+m1" in the normal/harder difficulties. The GW2/ESO audience in other words
>enemies don't roll up on you with exclusive abilities/stats/weapons in FE
what the frick? they absolutely do, even in nu-FE
It's actually funny because the one time Pokemon made a tRPG, Conquest, they made it so that the enemies and the player have more or less the exact same capabilities across everything and FEchads or really anyone who's actually played a lot of SRPGs recognized it for being the bland overly easy dogshit it was.
Frankly I'm surprised in PMD that the bosses don't have 100-150 HP like the player does, but I guess the 3 billion reviver seeds let you overcome that difference too.
Everything Pokemon touches turns to shit and its unfortunately up to romhackers to turn it into something that resembles a normal game.
>I'm surprised in PMD that the bosses don't have 100-150 HP like the player does
It does. They're unlabeled bosses, and they respawn randomly throughout the dungeon. They can wipe you with their multi hit moves in one turn.
This. If a foe can't hit you for ludicrous damage from across the room just because you're in their LoS, it's not a real boss.
I've only played PMD RTDX, but the main dungeon bosses are either nonexistent in difficulty or virtually impossible because everyone gets one shot (postgame Articuno's Blizzard). Then you pop an All Protect Orb and it's completely trivial.
>WTF why isn't this random pokemon up to par with a legendary???
>People still playing Radical Red Skibidi Smogon simulator
You guys absolutely lost your touch with good romhacks LMAO.
I didn't believe this whole exchange about Pokemon players feeling put off by being put at a disadvantage against foes until my friend complained to me about Ogerpon's 4 boss health bars feeling cheap
>mfw the inevitable Terapagos boss fight at the climax rivals Nyx for the amount of phases it has, having a phase for every single type
Just don’t play it and pick one of the mainline games then moron?
>enemies can't have better pokemon than you
>enemies very rarely have better moves than you
>enemies can't have more pokemon than you do
>enemies almost always have the exact same amount of health, stats, etc. that you can get
>enemies almost never have optimized nature's, EVs, etc. anything the player can do to increase stats
>various strategies exist that pretty much can only be taken advantage of by the player
>a lot of these strategies completely invalidate or screw hard with the very basic AI enemies use (destiny bond, toxic/leech seed stall, substitute)
>you can easily overlevel enemies, spam items far more than they do, spam a greater variety of items than they do, the only trainers who usually approach a full team that you can get in the first 5 seconds are your rival and the champion
>you can turn on a mode that lets you see the enemy's next pokemon and react in zero time to send out the most optimal pokemon before they do
>you can save anywhere and it will dump you right back where you saved
>random encounters are either complete non-threats (wild mons) or don't respawn without your control (trainers)
>medicine even for fainted pokemon is cheap and easy to get, full heals are free and numerous
>a game over can easily be reversed by savescumming but even if you follow through you get a ridiculously light slap on the wrist
>you can rearrange your team anyway you like with hundreds of different options and the enemies can never do the same (common in vidya but noted here as even changing one mon can allow you to completely bulldoze a battle)
>pretty much the only thing in any game that doesn't completely coddle the player is the E4 because you can't change your team and get free full heals, and even then those don't really matter
..
>a hack gives an enemy a very powerful pokemon the player will never have access to without cheats
>NOOO SO UNFAIR NOOO HOW AM I EXPECTED TO WIN NOOO ITS TOO MUCH OF AN ADVANTAGE FOR THE AI STOPPPP
>Verification not required.
>>you can turn on a mode that lets you see the enemy's next pokemon and react in zero time to send out the most optimal pokemon before they do
Even better, this is the DEFAULT M.O. of Pokemon as of Scarlet and Violet, Set Mode doesn't exist anymore.
Not to mention the E4 also removed the "can't change your team" requirement.
On top of the fact the E4 is no longer even a gauntlet. If you somehow lose at any point to any of them, even Geeta, it saves your progress and lets you pick up from wherever you lost.
every roomhackgay just want to turn pokemon into a bootleg jrpg just like Shin megami tensei
*switches to shedinja*
zzzzzzzzzz
Vega did bullshit boss fights better
>Shuckle used Deep Yawn!
The only good bullshit fight in Vega is the final Turner fight.
FRICK Shadow Clamp, aids ridden move.
>90 BP ghost move that can inflict sleep or confusion
>Naturally obtainable STAB move for a Mon with 120 Base attack and no weaknesses (pre-fairy)
Vega devs were on something. Procyon and Deneb need to release already.
didnt this hack add a jojo pokemon, cringe
yeah, they turned Gigantamax Machamp into a Jojo reference Mega
>BST 775
>Fricking 185 Special Attack
>Ability that effectively nullifies any elemental weaknesses with no drawbacks
What the hell is this fanfic mon
Slight side point, how come all romhacks or fan games are either: "OC world with shitty fakemons" or "Pokemon but HARDERRR :0"
Where are the romhacks or fan games that are focused around catching, trading, collecting, etc? Or hell, a fan game about Contests.
>focused around catching, contests
No one would play it
>trading
We're talking about fricking romhacks and what's the point of trading if they're not going to be used for battling
i dunno anon i like collecting cute critters 🙂
some romhacks don't use fakemons but the only ones i can think of currently are unbound, orange, prism, and coral
most of the advance ones are either shitty artificial difficulty hacks or filled with fakemon like scale and fang
We used to have catching and collecting hacks (151, 251, 386, 493, etc.) but then we wound up with too many Pokemon for it to be logically sustainable to overhaul a region to let you capture all of the available species.
>gary hasbmiraidon and eternatus
Obviously he does lol
Finally finished it. The legendary spam at the end ruined the whole experience.
I hope you like fakemon cuz that's the postgame
Radical Red is not an RPG. It's a puzzle game. You fight a new enemy, its puzzle catches you off guard, then you come back after cracking the code and cheese the AI.
It's like Dark Souls, except you don't have a chance to beat it on your first try unless you already have a team composition that can crack the puzzle.
Yeah it's essentially an AI cheesing game. That's why protean/libero starters are miles above the rest because the AI can't keep up with type changes
It's likewise why entry hazards are so good (and completely unavailable to the player in Restricted/Hardcore), NPCs never carry hazard removal moves because the dumbass AI would never use them in the correct context.
i beat half the bosses on my first try with a generic team and no knowledge of their setups
not once did i have to change out a pokemon to win, i only had to change up my strategy
and i do not consider myself a good player whatsoever
Nooooo that's against the narrative! Stooop!
Sure bro I believe you. I totally believe you just happened to get some of the pokemon that break the whole game open.
>tfw remembering the dev patched out pokemon that actually did this
I seriously don't understand why redditors are so disingenuous and yet so prideful.
i didn't "happen to get game breaking mons", i simply built a team around the idea of sweeping with moxie heracross and then proceeded to do just that.
it's literally just basic teambuilding.
I did the same. I had a corviknight but then the dev threw a hissyfit that people broke his game with it and patched it out.
The fact he did this at all speaks volumes about what Radical Red really is. It's a cheese fest where either your team breaks the game, or it doesn't and you have to rebuild every other route.
>it's a cheese fest because i can't win simply by picking a few random non-synergistic pokemon and hoping for the best
i am literally a trash tier 1300 elo showdown player how do i have a better understanding of pokemon than you
>dodging the subject
concession accepted, and I'm not surprised you're a low elo. Only insecure babies defend and take pride in beating Radical Reddit.
>dodging the subject
???
>taking pride in beating it
???
if anyone is insecure here it's you, throwing a fit because you're literally too fricking dumb to think of and implement extremely basic strategies that bottom level players are capable of
you can have the last word or whatever im done with this shit
You don't understand, my hustle(an ability that boosts physical attacks by 50% but makes the 20% less accurate) Rufflet (a pokemon with nearly 100 more base stats than normal pokemon that early, most of it in attack) with the jolly nature (boosts speed while lowering special attack, which doesn't hurt a physical attacker) holding berry juice (will heal it to almost full health upon activating) with the move aerial ace (a powerful flying type move this early on that never misses, thereby nullifying the hustle, and can only be obtained this early by using a TM which the player doesn't have yet) that also has roost (another TM move that heals Rufflet for half its HP while making it resistant to electric, rock, and ice attacks), with rock smash and slash (both TM moves, because why not) is a totally normal pokemon for a pre-first-gym mandatory-battle trainer to have!
>go! pikachu!
>use electro ball!
>one shots
Lol
You got filtered by that? Really?
and thats why i dont play romhacks and fangames anymore
all of them have the same bullshit
the most obnoxious ones are having only shitmons in the first 3-5 routes and needing to grind for hours to level up your mons
this shit is literally of smelly fat balding nerds with nothing to do in their lives
>2023
>people still b***h about Onix when it was buffed with an evolution 20 years ago
That's what I really don't get about Onix whinging. Its not Delcatty, its not Parasect, and its CERTAINLY not Ledian, who all capped out their potential and are eternal shitters. Onix was redeemed into a NFE that turns into a MUCH better pokemon superior in every metric.
>better type synergy that nullifies its crippling quad weakness and gives extra resistances
>better stat allocation that gives an actual attack stat and salvageable hp & sp def, along with extremely high defense
>better movepool and coverage for its weaknesses
There's no reason to cry about onix being shit when it was fixed years ago. Its like complaining about Eevee being a weak shitter
But muh autism can't handle big rock snake having less attack than a little rat!
I'm only fixated on Onix though because of my autism!
I thought hardcore mode would give you less setup options not NONE.
This truly is the most no fun allowed to ever no fun allowed. Can't even spec your mons because no EVs for some fricking reason.
Also. They made Luxray dark type.
>play the nofun hardmode invented for autists who beat regular mode who just want more difficulty
>NOOOOO WHY IS THIS NOFUN HARDMODE
also removing ev/iv cancer is great and something every game should do
>also removing ev/iv cancer is great and something every game should do
>IVs
yes, should just be slight, nearly invisible cosmetic differences like how the same species of animals IRL have different features between each member
>EVs
hell no, kills build diversity and makes the only battling difference between raising the same species of pokemon come down to their natures. There'd be no point in training pokemon if wild pokemon were just as strong as trainer pokemon either, and would just be constant rotation for every matchup ever
>hell no, kills build diversity
ah yes, the build diversity of...every fast sweeper running max [attack stat] EVs/max speed EVs; every defensive mon running [max defense stat] EVs/max HP EVs; every tankmon running [max main attack stat they're good at]/[max defense stat they're good at].
the 1% of times something doesn't neatly fit into this mold is not worth keeping severe grinding autism in
>There'd be no point in training pokemon if wild pokemon were just as strong as trainer pokemon either,
that doesn't make any sense and it's also wrong, training pokemon gets them better levelup moves or evolutions
EVs are only that bad in singles which is a moronic joke mode that gamefreak doesn't give a shit about.
there are more mons that don't run 252/252/4 spread in VGC than mons that do.
based
speaking of does anybody know if there are doubles hacks
Have you played a single RPG in your life besides pokemon?
well. you can look up teams before. and you can save right in front of him. its not that hard nonny.
>ITT: anons realize Pokémon is a shit tier RPG for anyone over the mental age of 12 and is not designed to accomodate battles that require actual thought
I thought radical red was kina fun
>2.3
Try 4.0
unbound and gaia are the best romhacks have to offer, until those bdsp gays release everything in unity and that's pretty fricking sad
I'll give RR credit for having gen 9 while most of other hacks are still stuck on gen 7.
I just wish there was a more relaxing and fun hack with gen 9 mons
RR with minimal grinding mode turned on is pretty casual, thing is it's still fricking Kanto and I could navigate Kanto in my sleep.