Looking for a system where the combat is slightly more complex and risky than D&D, but without going so far to make combat more of a headache than it already is.
Tried out Aces & Eights. In theory it's really interesting, but without a really good system for damage tables it gets a bit frustrating looking things up all the time.
Reading up on Twilight 2000 2.2 ed. Again it seems really interesting, but the biggest hurdle so far is the layout of the book.
What are your favourite realistic and/or lethal TTRPG systems?
Riddle of Steel and is successors. Sorry, but if you want "realistic" you're going to have to get used to complexity.
>if you want "realistic" you're going to have to get used to complexity
I get that. The reason why D&D 5e is so popular is because it's really accessible to a normie.
>Riddle of Steel
Thanks! I'm going to give it a look
Is Delta Green any good?
Yes
This and Call of Cthulhu 7th ed are great and fit this criteria
>This and Call of Cthulhu 7th ed are great and fit this criteria
Nice. Just started reading the book and seems like it could fit the bill pretty nicely. Going to look up some scenarios and choose my favourite. Thanks!
Do you know any scenarios off the top of your head that would recommend? The example one they give is quite promising
For Delta Green or CoC7?
Delta Green
Sorry, I'm more familiar with CoC
No worries. Thanks for the recommendation :*~~
'I Want You to Kill the Ice Cream Man'.
'Clutching at Ignorance'
'Drooler in the Dark'
Last Things Last is what people usually recommend to start with. Starts off slow and probably ends in a murder or a short fight depending on how things play out. Pairs well with Metamorphosis.
Yes. Can also use Cthulhu Eternal to avoid the law enforcement archetypes.
Classic Unisystem. Specifically All Flesh Must Be Eaten, but the other variants are good.
A normal human has about 26 Life Points. A roided out Gigachad could theoretically get up to 60. A 9mm handgun hit to the torso deals between 8 and 48 Life Points of damage. With good hollowpoints you can take that to 72, and head or vitals hits would stack even more multipliers. All this to say: a single handgun round has a 50% chance of incapacitating a normal person, and there's plenty of ways to get that chance up or down. Lethality is available in spades.
Interest in combat is a nebulous thing, and I don't know what you're looking for, but if you want cover and armour to be important, movement to be useful, and firearms to dominate over melee... You're in luck.
Classic Traveller has lethal combat.
And every moment of your life is combat, even chargen!
Hero system with hit locations and the wounding rules etc..
>Reading up on Twilight 2000 2.2 ed.
Please, for your own sake: put it down and go looking else where. I played that one before.
>Please, for your own sake: put it down and go looking else where.
Found it randomly one time, found a group online to play it with. The GM was really good, but the players were mostly ex-military boomers who would rattle off a story about a particular weapon or vehicle whenever it was mentioned.
The times when I've gone "oh frick, I'm going to get shot and loose this character" while at full health has mostly been in New World of Darkness games. Average health boxes is 7. Average person shooting a rifle at you can do a max of 10 damage. One shotting or just really fricking someone up is common.
>I want a game that's simulating reality and does so in extensive, unforgiving way
>But I also want just play DnD
You can only pick one.
Played a Twilight 2000 one-shot recently, the main take-away I really got regarding the system as a whole is that full auto is fricking terrible unless you have completely maxed out stats and have time to aim
>full auto is fricking terrible
Same
>Cyberpunk 2020 fricking rules and I love it dearly.
I'll check it out. Thanks 🙂
Friendly reminder that the Swedish game titled "Twilight 2000" reeased recently only shares title with the actual T2k
Actually OP, I'm going to recommend the 4th edition of T2K for you. I still find it plenty lethal, with certain crit results being a literal insta kill, but it also cuts out a lot of the complexity from the older editions like a revamped encumberence system and no longer having to calculate the MPG of a humvee based on whether you poured vodka or human piss in it.
OG T2K grogs don't like it because at a certain point, there are quite a few deviations from the originals. But IMO they kept the tone of the setting pretty intact and obviously the setting is pretty much the same.
Is the combat good though? There's a crazy amount of rolling and the flowchart I've seen for a turn is bonkers
When people talk about realistic simulation in games, what you experienced is that. You either need a ton of practice, ammo, or help (i.e. a tripod) if you want to hit much on full automatic.
>What are your favourite realistic and/or lethal TTRPG systems?
Cyberpunk 2020 fricking rules and I love it dearly. I strongly recommend giving it a look if you're after something of moderate complexity and frequent lethality.
While I also love CP2020, I will say pick up Cyberpunk Red and rip the Hacking rules. 2020's hacking fricking sucks.
>but without a really good system for damage tables it gets a bit frustrating looking things up all the time.
So make the tables in google docs or a word processor and print it off?
>but the biggest hurdle so far is the layout of the book.
Whenever I'm learning a new system I read through it while effectively making a stream lined document on my other monitor, then I have a quick reference set of rules in language I can read more quickly.
It also allows me to compile source books together.
Though for lethality Song of Swords is a fun one along with Savage Worlds if you don't allow insane armor/toughness stacking. Most enemies will die from a single shotgun blast or pistol round if you're a decent shot and a headshot pretty much secures death on the majority of enemies.
I'd also say look into something in the OSR/Nu-SR style. I've had good times with Cy_Borg and Dancing With Bullets Under A Neon Sun.
>Whenever I'm learning a new system I read through it while effectively making a stream lined document on my other monitor, then I have a quick reference set of rules in language I can read more quickly.
This dude fricks
Really appreciate all the suggestions in this thread
In my opinion GURPS is the winner. However it sucks for large battles so I just have npcs below -1xHP just outright die.
>cannon fodder enemies not dying at 0 HP
Of course combat takes forever if every goomba is allowed to make HT survival rolls
T2K's setting and books are really fricking good, especially with the PMulcahy vehicle and weapon supplements, but I just run it with GURPS since the original system is too unwieldy to run in a timely fashion (especially without being in-person). T2K's combat was written by people with actual military backgrounds so you need players with at least a moderate degree of knowledge regarding infantry tactics in order to do basically anything (assaulting fortified positions, using smoke, fire and movement, etc.). GURPS, especially using Tactical Shooting, can give you the exact amount of autism you require without being a slaughterfest because the PCs forgot to move in a staggered column and got pasted by a single mortar round.