Redpill me know the THAC0 system. I understand that the lower the number the better but I'm confused if the AC says, for example :
15(+4)
Does this mean it should be at 19 or 11?
Once it gets into the negative numbers below zero then how is it calculated?
Dawg this entire website gets filtered by Thac0. Don't even waste your time trying /tg/ either cause they're just reddit jr. You're gonna have to try dragonsfoot or some shit.
I'm starting to believe that no one understands THAC0 beyond the hit below the number to hit enemy.
Whats not to understand? If a dude has a THAC0 of 10, and you have an AC of -4, his effective THAC0 becomes 14. Simple.
When you read plus and minus effects you just need to keep them in mind as whether it means a positive or negative bonus and apply it accordingly.
So plus means to reduce it, thank you.
Is there any point to the numbers once they get below 0 like -9 etc?
Yes since you can try to hit targets that have armor class well below 0.
How do you even roll for numbers that go into the minus?
You use basic math?
If you have thaco -9 and try to hit target with armor -20 you need to roll 11 or more.
Wait, so once you go to minus numbers then you just switch to the ascending system? Goddamn this system is fricking moronic.
It's basic fricking math. Literal elementary school tier shit.
If THAC0 >= Your roll + Target AC, you hit, it's that simple
Meant <=
You substract the negative number you mouthbreather. Grade school math.
THAC0 represents the number you have to roll to hit a target with AC0, so a negative would mean an automatic success
Target AC is added to your attack roll, so a positive AC would improve your odds, and negative AC would reduce your roll, making it harder to hit
20 always hits. 1 always misses
Shouldn't it be reversed?
No, because high rolls hit and low rolls miss.
It just works on a sliding scale from 0-20 the same way ascending AC works. They just moved the lowest position to -10. It was common in naval simulation games at the time to calculate it that way. And having Thac0 already calculated with your bonuses you don't have to roll then add all your modifiers every time like all 5e players do.
Armor class in adnd counts down as it increases in protection.
Your to hit armor class 0 (thac0) is the number you need to roll on a d20 to hit 0 armor class. This number also drops as it increases in effectiveness.
So say you're a fighter with a thac0 of 10 and you attack a wolf with an armor class of 10. You need to roll a 0 or above (10-10). In other words, you always hit the wolf unless you roll a critical miss.
A drow with an AC of -2 would require that you roll 12 (10--2) to hit with 10 thac0. With 5 thac0 you hit on a 7 (5--2), increasing your odds of attacking.
See this table.
15 AC with a bonus of 4 would give you 11 AC. Usually this is broken up into base AC and bonus factors because most factors only apply some of the time. A good example is that missile attacks deny the dexterity bonus to armor class (which is why archers are death machines in bg1).
it's a terrible system, simplistic and overcomplicated at the same time
Ascending is far superior.
And we found the redditor. Took longer than expected.
Imagine justifying this stupid system so you think you stand out lol.
I don't need to justify shit. It was used in many years for gaming. Just because you needed it dumbed down doesn't mean everyone else is moronic. Now come on, tell us how much weed you smoke.
Even the creators switched to the superior system. Sorry you wasted your life learning this garbage system lmao.
No moron. The creators left it at Thac0. Then the company was bought by someone else and they switched it to pander to a lower IQ audience.
And what does it tell you when no one uses their stupid ass system when everyone bar a few online morons prefer to use it so they can feel "superior" for using a system that is just a waste of time.
It tells me that you're the dumb frick who they were pandering to and anyone who isn't a mongoloid is still playing an old version. Especially since it's all just piss poor rehashes of old content anyway. Are you just stupid or trans? Is that why you identify with it so strong?
Even the OSR is using modern systems. You want to pretend you're playing the older versions but you're still using the modern and superior systems.
Black person I'm still playing 2e. OSR is just fake OD&D or 1e, of which I already have. 3e was the beginning of a fricked up action economy and 4e was an MMO for the table. 5e is the worst of both with homosexuals and troons making it their entire personality. So again I ask you, are you just dumb or are you gay?
Have fun playing your system by yourself or your one other friend you dragged into playing it.
make it so that rolls show up in the combat log and see how it calculates hit/miss/crit etc,,
>Hit: 1 damage (9 damage resisted)
FRICK YOU, ICEWIND DALE!!!
frick the entire ruleset more like it
damage resistance is just broken
All THAC0 is a flat number. Anything in brackets is an outside variable. Usually a saving throw bonus/penalty.
>15(+4)
It means it's 15 ac as far as I can remember. Probably some armor that is weak to crushing weapons (like most of them), hence the +4.
>For example, a character with a THAC0 of 17 trying to hit a target with an AC of 1 needs a roll of at least 17-1=16 to succeed. This is a chance of 5/20, or 25%. A character with a much lower THAC0 of 5 trying to hit the same target needs a roll of at least 5-1=4. This is a chance of 17/20, or 85%.
How do you pronounce "THAC0"? I always read "taco" in my mind
Thak Oh
Yeah, basically like that, with a sharp Oh.
Thay (th is pronounced like Thursday)
Coh (pronounced like comb or coke)
It's Ah, n Ayy, you fricking clown.
Thak Zero
Just play better games instead
THAC0 is a weird system because it tends to invert the difficulty curve, ie the game is hardest right at the beginning before hit get gold armour.
this game is a chore. it really beats me how someone could find this fun.
>it really beats me how someone could find this fun.
It's okay, not everyone should have the taste and intelligence required to enjoy games like BG1.
The stories in BG1 are fine but the gameplay is dogshit.
>the gameplay is dogshit.
for (you) maybe
building your character and roleplaying is gameplay
the combat is fine for what it is
This. extremely lame and boring gameplay, i'd rather play Starcraft
>Redpill me know the THAC0 system.
It was designed in the 1970s when most DMs rolled all the dice themselves, so the math is one-sided.
The rest of it is 1st grade math that apparently they don't teach in ESLland.
I think it's 15 and just shows some bonuses in brakes.
I beat the entire game just getting my taco as low as possible and that worked for me. I have 0 idea how any of it works though, which is a shame because I don't think I ever will.
You need to roll the difference between THAC0 and AC:
THAC0 = 15, AC = 5, you need to roll the difference - at least 10.
THAC0: 15, AC = -1, you need to roll at least 16.
I think this topic proves no one knows how this system works.
The only really dumb part about THAC0 is that you get items that say "Thaco+1", but they actually mean -1.
What is it actually supposed to represent is my question. Just how unwieldy a weapon is to use or the weapon's armor penetration or something else?
Armor Class. The lower the better, so "First Class" (AC1) is better than "Second Class" (AC2). AC covers both "better armor" but also "better dodging".
THAC0: How hard it is to damage/hit someone with "the best"* class (so AC0).
*of course it can get better (lower than 0).
I apologize if I sound really baby dumb here but as in what a weapon with a better THAC0 in the fantasy world represents compared to a worse THAC0. Like you think of something having a higher damage stat/range and you intuit that the blade is sharper or the spell is stronger or whatever, would a weapon with a lower THAC0 be better at piercing armor, for example? Or would it be really light or easy for even the most untrained dude to use it properly?
Yeah, something like that. Better THAC0 just means all these things at once. Easier to land a hit on dodging enemy, easier to penetrate armor. AC in DnD is already pretty abstract, because I think most of editions use AC as "how hard it is to damage someone". It doesn't matter if it's hard because someone wears heavy armor or it is hard because someone can easily evade attacks.
You can just flip the values around, let's say AC = 20 is the armor value.
Then we can either:
1. Keep THAC20 as "to hit AC20". And this still would equal 20. That means to damage someone with 20 AC you need to roll at least 20.
2. Change wording to something like "versus AC bonus". With base 0, that would also mean you need to roll 20 to damage AC20, but then, hurray, we are in more intuitive system were +1 VACB would just mean +1 to every roll.
Returning to your question, once again, it's all abstract. In better/more complex system you will have different stat for evades and armor and it's easier to imagine why one weapon is easier to use vs armor.
It's better if you think of the numbers as a big abstraction of all the contributing factors you can imagine.
AC - want big number
THAC0 - want low number
there (You) go
>AC - want big number
For your enemies, right?
I always imagined Thaco as a gay mexican.
Thac0 is just a heavyhanded way of protraying how accurate your character is with the high number meaning worse accuracy.
>playing the dark spire
>it uses that