>release Pathfinder KM an rtwp game
>some insane fan makes a turned based mod
>the mod becomes so popular it is included in the game
>turn based becomes preferred way to play for most non moronic people
>sequel ships with hybrid mode anyway
ffw to 2023
>owlcat's next game is going to be entirely turn based
>most popular rpg of all time bg3 is entirely turn based
where is your god now rtwp chuds
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anon, don't be an insufferable homosexual. rtwptards already lost this hard. show some graciousness towards their defeat.
no
my enemies must suffer
and they aren't already with nogames? you have no class. i dub thee unbased and turned away.
kys lord gayish
I agree with this anon. I prefer turn based, but don’t stoop to their level of c**tishness.
Also bg3 is a shit game, lauding it for being “popular” isn’t doing your argument any favors.
>Also bg3 is a shit game
well yeah, its part of the balding gay franchise
>Also bg3 is a shit game
wow it took you 3 games to realise baldur's gate sucks
Both Pathfinder games are great. Baldur's Gate 3 is great too.
Matsunogay and Bioware/Obsidian's rtwp gays were the most insufferable users from the 00s/early 10s (and still is)
Seeing their precious subgenre downfall has been hilarious.
Still, like said , tb , arpg and Tactics fans won, there is no need to still mocking them
Yeah, all games nowadays are deteriorating and are being dumbed down to appeal to casuals and normalgays
>nowadays
Man that's true.. back in the day they used to make games for us basement-dwelling loser morons to unlesh our autism on pointless things
What happened to dark red? Thought he was winning. I have no clue what game this is.
FFA or maybe BAR. looks like they got com (commander) sniped because they rolled out of their base and left it the com there undefended to air attacks.
>b-but turn-based is casual mainstream!!
Daily reminder that rtwp was developed to attract the RTS crowd to RPGs and was basically a marketing ploy. It's a degenerate combat system that has survived way too long and I look forward to the day it disappears completely.
it's funny how different generations each think that their own shit is "hardcore". to see rtwptards using the same arguments as tbgays did back in the day is quite amusing.
>I look forward to the day it disappears completely.
uh, that's already happened
>Daily reminder that rtwp was developed to attract superior crowd to RPGs
That's why it was better
RTS are THE hardest, most patrician genre that exist, no wonder they are filtering plebs left and right.
>RTS are THE hardest, most patrician genre that exist
what are your favorite rts games, anon?
Baldur's Gate 2
>rts with pause
casual
Red alert 2 and Age of empire 2&3
>RTS are THE hardest, most patrician genre that exist
holy kek both rts are rtwp RPGs are dead for a reason while their turn based counter parts are still popular.
and that reason is they don't appeal to casuls
counterpoint: you
you are not as smart as you think you are rtwp chuddie
Yeah, being too hard for the average gamer.
kek more like they are shit....not autistic enough for autists and not actiony enough for normies....it is a moronic middle child of action games and turn based games.
There are good RTWP games(Infested Planet) but they certainly aren't C(ope)RPGs
Wrong, Diablo 4 happened, and it's nowhere near as bad as troony Gate 3.
Diablo 4 is an RTS? Wow, they really went a weird place with that series.
Has been since 3, you ignorant zoomie.
What's a zoomie?
Bladders gate is a 7/10 at best but diablo 4 is a literal 3/10 slop...but then again I didn't expect good taste from an rtwp tard.
RPGs are about role playing, not about being particularly challenging. If you want to play a challenging game you should play competitive RTS, FPS, etc.
what if I want to roleplay in a high stakes struggle bus of a world? what a stupid thing you've just said. I really wish games weren't catered to all of you fricking morons who picked up games in the last 15 years.
>what if I want to roleplay in a high stakes struggle bus of a world?
The player makes the decisions, the character executes them. In a tabletop game a moron can role play a wizard and a blind man can role play a sharp shooter. While challenge can make a game more interesting, it is not fundamental to the genre.
RTWP has always been a shitty system, that lacked the depth of a good turn-based system and it is only liked a certain generation of people who are too young to have played games that came before Baldur's Gate.
>doesn't answer the question
>side rails off into tangent about why RTWP bad
okay I see we can't have a coherent conversation then
High stakes are created through the narrative. Too much challenge can be an issue since it may be contradictory to role playing. For example, if the game forces you to cheese encounters, make character builds that make no narrative sense or if enemies that would be expected to be dumb behave cohesive like pawns played by a chess grandmaster, it may ruin immersion.
My point remains: if you want to play a hard game, in particular given the fact that you mention RTS - why not play just that? A competitive RTS is harder than any RPG ever made (not to mention that RTWP doesn't play anything like RTS games).
This is an interesting perspective, that too much difficulty prompts players to seek a meta.
I mean, it's kinda obvious... Higher difficulty means you're gonna have to maximize efficiency that usually leads to one or two viable ways of playing a game and it makes the game boring for everyone who is not an autistic moron and like other things that are not percentages and numbers in the game.
I think it kinda depends on what type of game you are making though and simply highlights the weakness in the combat and encounter design in any particular game. I don't mind build optimization in my games, but I don't want every game to enforce optimization with heavy-handedness. RPGs really are the Goldilocks genre.
>what if I want to roleplay in a high stakes struggle bus of a world
You play traditional roguelikes,
Play BG3 then.
Game has zero struggle past trying to fight some act 1 enemies underleveled.
Builds have zero depth.
Boring as frick.
But then, turn based doesn't have to be like this, see underrail.
BG3 is a shit game, not because it is turn based, but in spite of being turn based
RTWP is for actual grug gamers who do not have any ounce of patience, thinking capacity, or comprehension of strategy. It is literally designed for action game gays who are too moronic to get into turn based rpg's as to not immediately filter them. There's no excuse for defending it, I agree with OP.
Both are not RPGs.
Turn based mode makes KM and Wrath far to easy. Literally babbies mode, why can't zoomies handle RTwP?
>intuitive mode is actually intuitive and easy
kek try again rtwp chuddie
>zoomies
I have saying this shit since bg1...og Fallout combat> bald gay combat.
Are you saying that turnbased mode in pathfinder doesn't make the game a hell of a lot easier? Because it definitely does.
I've tried it out on some bosses and hard encounters and whereas my party would get wiped in RTwP I beat them puss easy without hardly taking any damage with turnbased.
Some people just can't handle RTwP, I feel sorry for (you).
it makes it easier because the rules can work as-written in turn-based mode. rtwp is an awful way to try to interact with pathfinder.
RTwP doesn't work great IF they stick to the ruleset designed for turn-based.
Which is why sticking slavishly to the ruleset makes very little sense if you wanted to make a RTwP game based on a certain PnP setting.
In fact, trying to adapt 1:1 the ruleset from a PnP roleplaying game is fricking moronic. If you do, then you completely missed the point. Even in PnP the rules are often bent, houseruled or ignored. That's because they're there to give structure, the focus is the roleplaying.
>game is easy
>fan makes even easier version
>casuals across the world tuck dicks into chastity cages and play new extra-easy mode
>brags about being a beta b***h
>rtwp gay calling others b***hes
well you can't do anything else anyways rtwps are dead.
RTWP might die, but it won't make you less a b***h. We should've excised you TB gays the second you began to infest RPGs. Better the entire RPG genre die than you casual basedboys take over.
>t. brown
>pretending like tabletop RPGs didn’t originate as turn-based games
>pretending like CRPGs didn’t originate as turn-based adaptations of turn-based TTRPGs
>pretending like RTWP wasn’t 90s trend-chasing like “uhhh command and conquer and Diablo sold well let’s make the games more like that”
You have to be 18 to post here
>tabletop RPGs
Tabletop games are in turns because they have no other choice. There is no reason to downgrade to their inferior level when computers allow for a vastly superior ways of simulating both battles and game world itself.
That’s your subjective opinion, and it doesn’t negate that the quoted anon was a fool for pretending like turn based was some nefarious new-comer trend to RPGs.
lol, this rtwptard is mad as frick. see, no reason to rub it in. their existence is already cope.
RTwP deserves no better. Long my turn based rule.
Give me Valerie!
Always irked me how Octavia's image is presented as a staff wielding blaster mage but in reality she's a rogue/wizard multiclass who's specialization is Transmutation and over 70% of those spells are focused on augments, buffs and using natural weapons. Like, there's nothing stopping you from respecing her as a blaster and that's not the issue, just that her image doesn't really reflect her default at all.
by default she specialises in sneak attack dice, the buffs are just a side dish
>zoomerhomosexual thinking i'm going to warrant giving that comment a proper (you)
BG3 is shit and Diablo 4 is shit. Medical facts.
sorry boomers that your mental state don't allow you to enjoy new things.
Sorry for your lack of taste.
I remember posting in the old interplay dragonplay tavern boards that if an RPG isreal-0time, then it isn't an RPG. Got ripped on for it and was universally hated in 1998.
I was eventually proven right.
>my stance in tribal wars is the result of being bullied 25 years ago and i just can't let go of that
Truly revealing
Both developers are pozzed, associating with pozzed publishers, and making pozzed games. I'm happy to keep playing older games like BG1/2.
shit game >:(
shit game but old 😮
I like both and you're a gay.
>make all the shitty filler fights that you'd find in a RTWP game that last 30 seconds to a minute, tops
>it lasts half an hour because of the AI trying to think of every conceivable way it can throw your character off any given ledge within 50 feet
If you're going to be turn based only, don't have filler fights. I even usually play with turn-based mode on in RTWP games- but I have other things to do with my time than spend three hours and three quarters of an hour in a dungeon that would take around 30-45 minutes in a RTWP game.
Turn based is unironically for people that want things to be easier.
That's literally what turn-based as a system is designed for. To simplify and pump the breaks so players don't feel overwhelmed.
Also, if you're not a good designer, it's much easier to design turn-based combat.
It is so funny to see this kind of moronic history revisionism in every rtwp gay thread to ever exist. Rtwp was initially conceived because releasing turn based game in age of rts and diablo being normalgaycore was considered commercial suicide.
Never let rtwp gays to forget that they are the cancer that enabled romance bullshit and directly responsible for all the pozzed shit they complain about.
>the cancer that enabled romance bullshit and directly responsible for all the pozzed shit they complain about.
This is your brain on /misc/
Turn-based factually is designed to make things easier.
It limits actions. It limits actively controlled units. It effectively removes any form of micro. Etc.
It also frequently limits things like movement (usually restricts movement to grids, not even hexes).
The pacing of fights is also severely slowed, which leads to fewer active units (allied/enemy/neutral) and longer fights. Transitions also tend to be much slower (going from beginning and ending combat). It outright forces countless pauses on the player.
Turn-based is a restriction that brings with it more restrictions.
Turn-based IS used to simplify and compartmentalize things.
Ironically however, turn-based lovers tend to delude themselves that they're "hardcore". Which couldn't be further from the truth.
>Never let rtwp gays to forget that they are the cancer that enabled romance bullshit
This level of outright insane delusion is just funny. You indirectly try and claim that turn-based is better because it doesn't lead to or have romance and shit like that. Which has absolutely nothing to do with a combat system. This is some desperate grasping at straws by a geniune midwit.
>Turn-based factually is designed to make things easier.
No. It's just a style of abstraction. You could say having two hands is designed to make things easier as well.
>It limits actions. It limits actively controlled units. It effectively removes any form of micro
So does pausing.
>It also frequently limits things like movement
A good thing, control of movement and comprehension of the field is in the player's hands.and requires no pathfinding AI.
>The pacing of fights is also severely slowed
Yes, a neutral thing.
>turn-based lovers tend to delude themselves that they're "hardcore"
Designers thought that turn-based was a turn off to people who don't like RPGs, which they wanted to fix in order to get more sales. RTwP isn't hardcore either though, any monkey can pause constantly and read the combat log. Encounter design is what makes a game hardcore. TB, or phase-based, just facilitates a game being more of an RPG because movement and attack speeds can vary more as they are independent from human reaction times.
>No. It's just a style of abstraction.
Anon, what is easier. Having to manage 10 units in real time with individual abilities or having each individual unit take their own separate turns where actions are broken up into movement and a limited number of actions (usually 1)?
Stop trying to argue against the facts, it makes it clear you're irrational and biased.
>So does pausing.
Pausing is entirely optional, not necessary and even if you pause, far more limited.
But no, pausing does not restrict the the action count or any of the other things mentioned. In turn based actions are typically restricted to one movement action (set number of movement points) and one active action (attack/heal/use ability). This is incredibly restrictive and yes, dumbed down.
>A good thing
Wrong. It's factually removing control from the player.
>requires no pathfinding AI
It still does. You clearly don't know anything about game dev. Also, it almost always results in less control of the actual path the unit takes (meaning they can walk through hazards or take paths you don't want).
>Yes, a neutral thing.
No, not neutral. A fact. It demolishes pacing and severely limits more things like unit count, action count, enemy count, etc. It doesn't expand, it restricts and simplifies (which is the point of turn based, a simplification).
>phase-based, just facilitates a game being more of an RPG because movement and attack speeds can vary more as they are independent from human reaction times
This is the most deranged and stupid shit I have ever heard. Turn based outright REDUCES variable variation, since everything has to be simplified and follow a very strict structure where a tons of factors are removed. Also outright removing human elements of skill like mechanical skill, micro, quick thinking, etc. does not make it more hardcore or more of an RPG, it just simplifies it and dumbs it down.
The entire point IS that turn based simplifies things. THAT is why it's used. Period.
>Anon, what is easier. Having to manage 10 units in real time with individual abilities or having each individual unit take their own separate turns where actions are broken up into movement and a limited number of actions (usually 1)?
They are both easy.
>Pausing is entirely optional, not necessary and even if you pause, far more limited.
Ah, it was exactly Real time with Penis. Got it.
>It's factually removing control from the player.
Wrong, it's factually giving context and control to the player.
>It still does. You clearly don't know anything about game dev.
Not for the player. We are talking about grids/hexes, right?
>demolishes pacing
You can't demolish pacing because there is no standard for "correct" pacing.
>This is the most deranged and stupid shit I have ever heard.
It's entirely true, anon. Real time limits you to human reaction times.
>The entire point IS that turn based simplifies things. THAT is why it's used.
I disagree. I think it is used because it's what defined RPGs. You simply do not like RPGs.
what defined RPGs was a literal lack of technological capabilities to simulate combat on a table you disingenuous homosexual
Simulating the abilities of characters which players cannot replicate in reality is a big part of RPGs, yes. Real time games are entirely based around actual human abilities. Play a real time action game as Superman. It's garbage at portraying the Superman fantasy, because it has to move at a speed and within an area you can comprehend.
Good thing we're not trying to simulate superman but rather a couple of fantasy mooks then. Also ACIV is close enough to a Superman simulator and that game fricks.
Turn-based allows you to simulate fantasy gods moving 100x the speed of a normal person though. It's just an advantage of the system.
>ACIV is close enough to a Superman simulator
It is not.
well you can't exactly fly around the world fast enough to time travel but Superman doesn't really fight people by doing that that often does he? he kinda punches them and swings them around like normal. there are fast fricking games and they are good and enable the playing of roles just fine! additionally, going fast and calculating a rule set is often several times over more engaging than just calculating a rule set for the sake of it. crazy! people can like tribes AND number games! whoa!
Substitute the Flash, then. My point is entirely about how real time limits a game to human reaction times. I like real time games too. It's more about refuting the idea that turn-based is simply limited, full stop, when all game styles have weaknesses.
no I think what you are saying is that you have inherent difficulty with running through turn based strategy tier causal analysis and can't do it at speed where I am saying I can and actively like to. what turn based game actually simulates combat at that scale of speed anyways? even in real time games you're talking like... aircraft simulators, mech games and shmups basically. twitch shit that has huge levels. most RPGs take place in fricking corridors. even if they have superhuman powers they just use it to snap 20-80ft distances, which is completely within the realm of "human reaction times" at speed. if you scale it up in real time it's still doable because you're probably using an overview and speeds become relative anyways. what your saying isn't logical.
>what turn based game actually simulates combat at that scale of speed anyways?
Elona+
so 20-80ft corridors then, right.
functionally illiterate and bad at recalling prior context then, got it.
I win.
>no I think what you are saying is that you have inherent difficulty with running through turn based strategy tier causal analysis and can't do it at speed
I'm making a point that you can't refute and you are now babbling and coping. I accept your concession.
If you ever use your own skills and knowledge instead of your character you are metagaming homosexual and should not be playing rpgs period. Please frick off back to character action, shmups, fightings, fps, adventures etc and leave rpg alone, this is not a genre for you.
Ignore him, he already gave up on the discussion because he's close-minded. Now he's only attentionwhoring and is going to shitpost until people give up on responding to him. He will then treat it as him "winning the argument", further cementing his close-mindedness.
Don't waste your time with idiots like him. You're better off talking to a wall. You won't get through regardless, but at least you don't get moronic shitpost replies back.
>They are both easy.
Thanks for conceding, despite not realizing it.
>Ah, it was exactly Real time with Penis
Ah, so you are indeed a full-blown overemotional idiot? Thanks, for confirming it 100%, now I know I don't need to waste time reading your irrational drivel any further, since you don't even argue, only shitpost.
I have no idea why idiots like you even pretend to engage in discussion when you clearly can't handle being wrong, so you just resort to shitposting instead.
Don't bother replying, I don't waste time on delusional irrational idiots.
>Pausing in Real Time with Pause isn't necessary.
>lol
>u-u-u overemotional
RtWPtards, everyone.
>cherrypicks
>but still only responds with a logical fallacy and shitpost
You only proved everything I said correct. Ironically, even the terrible """point""" you made is incorrect and you can't even back it up.
I have no need for irrational idiots like you that only stroke my ego. So run nalong now, because you won't get another pity (you).
>"""point"""
>if i put enough quotations around it, i can pretend it doesn't exist
lol
I wish your stupid fricking dumb meme arguments didn't get codified into your actual serious belief systems because that directly affects the choices dumb data harvesting game publishers make. literally the reason why we can't have nice things. stop it.
>actual serious belief systems
holy schizo
>waaaah, stop thinking things you are mind controlling moronic developers
i love how you can only moan about your peers and never create anything
>talking about verified effects of muh Big Data that have been a non stop talking point for the past ten years
>"hurr schizo"
>based moron ad homs
sasugadana anonkun
opinions about video games are not "actual serious belief systems", anon. it's just a game, y mad?
then act like it you fricking mongs, vote with your wallets correctly some day. stop buying low effort content treadmills
>vote with your wallet
live laugh love, anon
I love Valerie. That is all.
I like RTWP because after I beat games on the hardest difficulty and want to explore different story options without having to pay attention to combat I can set it on RTWP on the easiest difficulty and right click to solve every combat encounter within seconds.
It beats having to mod the game with a 'kill enemies with button press' since that can break quests.
Post games that evolved "RTWP" into something playable and fun.
>Not an RPG
Maybe RPG devs should get a clue.
Imagine a tactics game with superhot's "the game moves when you do" system, where the enemy can resolve their turn at the same time as you.
>Simultaneous turns
Haha imagine. The technology is probably not there yet.
Yeah, but does Rogue have hitstun/poise system? Because I had the idea for a tactics-based dungeon crawler that gives you the ability to deny them their turn, and vice-versa they can inflict the same onto you.
No but that's an interesting mechanic for a simultaneous turn game.
Kinda necessary if your party is fighting a large number of enemies tho. Also means traps/ambushes are op, similar to something like Underrail.
IE Games
>sequel ships with hybrid mode anyway
The best outcome.
You get to switch between both and use whichever one favors the current encounter.
The actual truth:
RTwP is superior for tactical games and provides far more tactical depth.
Turn-based is superior for strategic gameplay and allows for strategic depth.
RPGs are, at their core, tactical skirmish wargames. Thus, RTwP is best for making RPGs with in-depth gameplay.
Crazy realtime BG3 mod that opens people's eyes, when?
>low level pathfinder
>play in turn based mode because I have more control
>agonize over every move because the slightest mistake could mean a permanent character death
>barely scrape through an encounter with a kobold shaman and some centipedes
>high level pathfinder
>play in RTwP because its faster
>cast every buff
>unpause
so I was playing it right. I thought there was more to it. its basically auto chess?
anon why are you posting a WoW raid video
got it mixed up with my high level pathfinder gameplay
that looks awful to play
You have to be extremely interested in the numbers and extremely aware of them.
not really, IMHO
basically it's building and equiping your party up gradually, and at some point, sooner or later, you'll ntoice you got strong and slap
There's probably not a single input in that entire webm.
wrong, he pressed spacebar to unpause.
Pathfinder has too many buffs. You should never get to the point where by casting every buff at your disposal makes you into unkillable gods. The whole game should be full of moves you agonize over and encounters you barely scrape through. If the only input the player makes is casting buffs and then watching his party auto to victory you've failed as a game designer to keep your game engaging throughout the power curve.
>popular=good
>niche=good
Valerie sucks
Octavia sucks
Turn based sucks
>Valerie sucks
take that back you stupid frog
Valerie simps are the worst of all simps
cope Octavia cuck
Octavia is also trash. Cope harder
you are a homosexual but atleast you are smart.
And you're just a homosexual
homosexual opinions don't matter
Correct. Your opinion doesn't matter
you are the homosexual thoughbeit
No, that's Aruegays.
Frogchad has spoken
Extremely based
Yes, Turn-Based is so braindead easy that even the most subhuman normalgays can into it. See: BG3.
You won, turn-based troon. You have conclusively proven that turn-based combat is designed for the lowest common denominator.
>he says, defending the genre that lead to tactical masterpiece gameplay such as NWN1, Dragon Age Origins, and "buff your melee guy on autopilot, run down a flowchart with your casters for everything else" gameplay standards for anything more complex than those two
rtwp was designed because of brain dead diablo gays zoomer
Sure is warm and comfy on the right side of history