>released just a month before Gran Turismo
Did they push it out of the oven too early just to have a chance of having sales, leaving the controls and graphics issues unresolved?
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Idk
Gran Turismo bent over every racing game contemporaneous to it and even those made after for a good while.
Gran Turismo was one of those rare moments when the entire game genre got redefined overnight. Every developer had to stop whatever they were doing and make their game more like Gran Turismo.
Not quite true. Some developers tried to make their own GT but that was more an early 2000s thing and established racing series continued to their own thing in the meanwhile. NFS did a quick detour with Porsche Unleashed but then went back to their own sort of arcade racing. Ridge Racer stayed true to their arcade roots as well. Colin McRae games were their own, highly successful thing. Shutokou games did JDM and tuning scene way before Gran Turismo. Games based on Nascar and F1 continued being made.
Sure, you had games like Sega GT, Forza, Racing Emotion, Racing Evolution and Enthusia but by the end of the 2000s only Forza was alive and only because Xbox didn't have GT. The fad has died off for the most part. People who wanted simracing moved on to the real sims. I am pretty sure that there are more Mario Kart clones than GT clones in the history of racing games.
What's so good about it?
I only played GT4, but I was very, very bored. Give me OutRun, Sega Rally or Daytona (even the Saturn port) anyday over it.
>give me sugary adhd over proper racing game
You people putting racing games in black and white categories of arcades and sims and putting a sim label on GT are the most annoying, regardless of you being in the sim camp or arcade camp like that anon above.
I prefer the games in the middle like GT1, Sega Rally, Battle Gear, NFS High Stakes and Tokyo Xtreme Drift. But I can appreciate both sides from F-Zero to Grand Prix Legends.
you are the first here to mention sim/arcade here though, schizo.
>I only played GT4
Here's your problem. You played a car porn game instead of the jdm tune and drift game (GT1).
I love that track
Everything. Presentation, style, gameplay, no-nonsense, soundtrack, attention to detail. I listed "presentation" first because I can't begin to describe the impression playing GT1 for the first time back in the day imprinted upon me when my friend showed it to me. GT mode for all intents and purposes felt like real internet back then, buying used cars, navigating around the menus.
Every menu screen and subscreen had its own top-notch music track/jingle that made it memorable. Even a fricking options screen had its own music theme, something most casual players never even bothered going to.
No-nonsense because menus are easily navigatable, its fast and slick, you can be in the race as immediately as you desire to.
Some people claim that GT2 is "everything GT1 but bigger and better" but that is not entirely accurate. For me GT2 was worse in all aspects except in scope. Hated the slanted HUD, hated framerate that now dropped heavily all the time, hated the new maps that felt dull in contarst compared to re-used GT1 tracks, hated the focus on european cars, hated the slow tempo of most songs on the OST, hated the broken rally races, hated how quickly you access top notch tuned cars.
GT1 is a love-letter to the JDM culture and video games that must be played in order to enjoy it. And I don't mean look up shit on youtube or play a single race on a poorly-set up emulator. You need to play it for an hour or two, finish the licenses and wrap up a cup or two in order for the entire experience to sink in properly.
>all that pseudocriticism against GT2
Just admit you are an obsessed weeb,
I am not a weeb at all. You could try to counter my (legitimate) criticisms and objections but you just can't because everything I stated is absolutely true.
Your pseudocriticism was just shit opinons like
>uhh i don't like the hud
>uhh I prefer gt1's buttrock and lounge
>yuro cars are le bad
>uhh new circuits le bad even when they all shit on high speed ring and SSR11
And the framerate complain is pure misinformatiom, gt1 chugs just as bad depending on the track.
>buttrock and lounge
Nta but you probably mean NFS 1-2 and early NASCAR. There's no buttrock in GT
>liking JDM
>weeb
Okay, how do we call people who like Euro and US motorsports scenes?
Eurotrash and normalgays, respectively
Normalgays don't watch nascar and don't jerk off to vintage mustangs either
NASCAR was the second-highest rated sport in the US from about 1995 until about 2005. Beating MLB, NHL, and the NBA.
This.
I want a focused experience rather than stretching thin and trying to cover everything. GT1 is amazing for 90s JDM. For european cars, I'd prefer a DTM or historic Gr.4 and Gr.5 racing games. At least we've got a proper rally series - Colin McRae is infinitely better than GT2 rally mode.
>GT1 is amazing for 90s JDM
As if console racers weren't saturated with JDM shit by the late 90s/early 2000s.
>I'd prefer a DTM or historic Gr.4 and Gr.5 racing games.
Except no 5th gen game did this better than gt2.
>Colin McRae is better
Comparing gt2's dirt tracks to a proper rally game is ridiculous, but even then the driving is easily on par with CMR and basically shit on any other ps1 rally game.
NTA but the point was that rally was always an after-thought in GT to this day.
I'd argue that GT4 rally was even worse than GT2, when you compare GT4 to something like CMR05 it's hilarious how the state of the art simulation measures up.
>rally was always an after-thought in GT to this day.
And it did it fricking well for an afterthought, tht's the point.
>when you compare GT4 to something like CMR05
Idk, by that point CMR's formula was stagnant and RBR was infinitely more ambitious. GT3 and 4 had really nice simcadey dirt physics that improved over GT2.
GT3 and 4 were visual works of art and ran at silky smooth framerate, milking out theoretical maximum out of that console. That's why they are so critically acclaimed.
I spent hundreds of hours in GT4, I am not saying the game is bad and unfun but it does have some very major flaws. Both 3 and 4 suffer from terrible understeer to the point that it feels like you are riding on train tracks. Add a terrible sense of speed and I can see why some people would give those games a shot and feel immediately underwhelmed by the initial impression.
>understeer
Filtered
>terrible sense of speed
This was especially bad coming from the PS1 titles. There is a Castrol Supra comparison video on youtube, I don't remember exact titles but one is a PS1 GT game and the other is a PS2 one. Exactly same lap time so there is no speed difference but the PS2 footage looks very anemic while PS1 side looks like an arcade racer.
>As if console racers weren't saturated with JDM shit by the late 90s/early 2000s.
They were but most of them never left japan, so most ppl didn't know about those games, unless they imported shit from ncsx, and GT1 did JDM better than anything at that point. I'd argue that Battle Gear 3 and later Shotokou games were better in some aspects but not as a total package.
>Except no 5th gen game did this better than gt2.
Because there were barely any attempts. This is what I mean: GT2 doesn't pay Euro and US cars as much attention and care as GT1 pays to JDM. GT2 tries to do too many things at the same time. Same about the rally mode.
>Because there were barely any attempts.
As many as your early ps1 JDM shit.
>GT2 tries to do too many things at the same time.
And fairly succeeded at them while also having better physics than GT1.
GT2's only real issue is not having better class restrictions like GT4.
>As many as your early ps1 JDM shit.
Lmao, name 10 DTM games or 10 Gr.5 games
As if there were 20 jdm games before gt1 lol moron.
Before GT2 there were a bunch of ps1 games that featured exotic yuro cars, american cars, rally, touring cars etc. GT2 did it better than most of them, and in the worst scenario it was equal, that's way more impressive than just doing jdm that all jap devs were doing all the time
>more impressive than just doing jdm that all jap devs were doing all the time
name these games that were all doing JDM all the time please
I sure as hell didn't see or play any before GT1 came out
The only thing gt1 did better than those early jdm games was having a better engine, and gt2 further improved the engine while also adding much more quality content, not limited to jdm shit.
GT2 was a win-win unless you are a apthetic obsessed weeb, in which case I advise you to simp ps1 jp exclusives over GT1.
name these games that were all doing JDM all the time please
I sure as hell didn't see or play any before GT1 came out
All those touge and highway games in the early days of ps1/saturn by genki and cave, Zero 4 champ, the weeb version of NFS1, gt kai. I'm sorry to tell you that jdm fetishism didn't start with gt1 and that the only interesting thing about gt was the engine.
There's also a bunch of mode 7 snes racers that qualify
Also on the arcades - two side by side games, midnight run, winding heat, over rev - all released before GT1. Ridge Racer is basically a touge game, just without licensed cars.
>You didn't look hard enough because he repeats the same stuff in every vroom thread
Wrong, I am the GT1 shill from vroom threads. I know this because I participated in the most of them and made many of them - the ones with Dirt Dash in the games list are mine. I am not the anon who is shitting on GT2 though and neither the anon who you replied to.
>More importantly, all of your aesthetic considerations are secondary to the fact that the handling in both games are pretty different, with 2 being more simulationist and 1 being more arcadey. So you can't really affirm one is better than the other, as they satisfy different needs.
This is correct. GT2 doesn't replace GT1 either.
>the weeb version of NFS1
i'm intrigued, how different was it?
It's not very good. They replaced all cars with Skylines from different eras and removed cops. Ironically, vanilla NFS is a better 90s japanese cars representation with NSX, RX7 and Supra.
>unless you are a apthetic obsessed weeb, in which case I advise you to simp ps1 jp exclusives over GT1
What a homosexual, you only turn fans of different GT games against each other.
>you only turn fans of different GT games against each other.
I'm not the guy shitting on all gt games after 1 though.
People said exactly what they don't like about GT2 and you only came up with muh jdm shit and muh weebs. Grow some skin
>People said exactly what they don't like about GT2
All shit opinions parroted in every vroom thread just for hipster weeb cred
Sounds like a (You) problem
>Hated the slanted HUD
autism.
>hated framerate that now dropped heavily all the time
It's worse yes but thankfully fixable with emulation
>hated the new maps that felt dull in contarst compared to re-used GT1 tracks
a matter of opinion again
>hated the focus on european cars
weeb
>hated the slow tempo of most songs on the OST
US soundtrack is trash, PAL is a lot better
>hated the broken rally races
fair, GT has never done rally well but you can just ignore it
>hated how quickly you access top notch tuned cars.
Only if you know which events give them, not everyone jumps to the fifth race of the 80's Sports Car Cup. In GT1 you can do the Normal Car Cup soon after starting the game and win 400K bucks.
More importantly, all of your aesthetic considerations are secondary to the fact that the handling in both games are pretty different, with 2 being more simulationist and 1 being more arcadey. So you can't really affirm one is better than the other, as they satisfy different needs.
>Some people claim that GT2 is "everything GT1 but bigger and better" but that is not entirely accurate. For me GT2 was worse in all aspects except in scope. Hated the slanted HUD, hated framerate that now dropped heavily all the time, hated the new maps that felt dull in contarst compared to re-used GT1 tracks, hated the focus on european cars, hated the slow tempo of most songs on the OST, hated the broken rally races, hated how quickly you access top notch tuned cars.
>GT1 is a love-letter to the JDM culture and video games that must be played in order to enjoy it. And I don't mean look up shit on youtube or play a single race on a poorly-set up emulator. You need to play it for an hour or two, finish the licenses and wrap up a cup or two in order for the entire experience to sink in properly.
it toke me 25 years to finally find someone that shares my opinion
>it toke me 25 years to finally find someone that shares my opinion
You didn't look hard enough because he repeats the same stuff in every vroom thread
focus on European cars? you're literally forced to use JP cars for most of the game
You can't even start with euro cars since they have no used market and even absolute shitboxes cost more than the initial 10k bucks.
Most euro and US cars don't get half of the HP of their JP equivalent fully tuned, and they're pretty conservative with HP in general, with stuff like group B rally cars being stuck under 400 horsepower. No top of the line german cars anywhere.
Focus on European cars my ass.
The argument is even more stupid when you consider that seeing euro or US cars on a trackday in Japan isn't exactly hard, they have dedicated fan clubs for pretty much every euro shitbox and american shitbarge out there. American cars were pretty popular for Yatabe top speed runs.
the euro/US cars were just polyphony thanking foreign players. it feels like they're an afterthought. even in 4 they feel like afterthoughts.
there are foreign car enthusiasts in japan you know
i remember reading an interview with Kaz where he said they put a bunch of foreign cars in 2 because they didn't think the 1st one would do that well internationally. maybe i imagined it.
It's because in 1997, the idea of a console sim was unheard of. EVERY racing game was an OutRun/Daytona USA knockoff with maybe four cars to pick from, only for GT to come along with dozens of licensed cars and relatively realistic handling and the ability to actually tune your car. People were sick of arcade racers, even on PC the only sims that really existed in 1997 were Geoff Crammond's Grand Prix series and the Papyrus NASCAR/Indycar games.
Try not being an ignorant zoomer in your next reply.
that barbie doll dress up car edition game is not that good, like at all you frickin' bum
AM is in this weird spot where it feels like the halfway point between Gran Turismo and Ridge Racer. Good if you want something different but not TOO different.
Yeah, outside of a few notable machines like the Venturis and the Alfa Romeo touring car, most of the European cars were overpriced compared to the Japanese and American cars. That's the problem with emulating real life prices, but then most of the cost reflecting luxury features that don't translate to a videogame context.
The last time this game was posted there was an absolute meltdown about it, I did find a good OST to listen to in the gym though.
I still remember vividly the disappointment of playing this for the first time after months of hype from saturn magazines. every few years I go back thinking "it can't be as bad as I remember" and immediately realise that yes, it is.
Yes. Thank rich Leadbetter of digital foundry infamy for that. His saturn magazine would constantly over hype utter shit. I remember countless features on 'deep fear' hyping it up as if it was the second coming of christ just because of the seething about re2 not going to saturn.
Needless to say, that game was also total shite just like stcc.
to be fair, I remember specifically reading the saturn magazine review as soon as I got my copy and having a "what the frick" reaction to the (relatively) low score or 76% or something. but yeah, this came after months of hype.
one annoying side-effect of them constantly bigging up any new saturn release was that I was really skeptical of radiant silvergun when they gave it a glowing review, I probably would have picked it up otherwise.
Yeah when the reviews came they admitted mostly that games were shit, but they had preview builds for months and it must have been clear these games were fricked. But what can you do, if you're doing the official magazine you can't exactly say 'well this looks shit so avoid it'
I remember the playing the demo (PAL version so even worse) and just not believing what I was seeing. The frame rate literally fluctuated from like 25 to 18 every second or so, you turned in and the cars would just continue to slide off.
Amusingly I played the coin op on Steam Deck emulated recently and it felt similar so they obviously did a pretty faithful port of the arcade gameplay, the problem was that gameplay was shit and needed optimising for gamepad
that's Alfa Romeo 155 DTM
and the game sucks
>1995
>be Sega
>release a highly acclaimed port of an award winning arcade racing game
>the engine runs great on Saturn hardware, both graphics and performance wise, physics are awesome too
>hear the insider leaks about Namco making a custom console Ridge Racer game with campaign mode, many cars and upgrades, instead of just simply porting a 10 minutes long arcade racing game
>hear the leaks about the Polys Entertainment racing game, backed by Sony, that also focuses on the amount of singleplayer content but also on the driving physics - one of the definitive Sega Rally features
>do nothing with their up and running Saturn Sega Rally engine
>almost a year later release an updated Sega Rally revision which is the same game but with XBAND support that nobody cares about
>do the same the next year but with NetLink support for the US market. The game is still the same.
The frick were they thinking? They could easily make a Saturn exclusive Sega Rally sequel with a proper campaign mode, new cars and tracks. They had the perfect engine already. They could beat Rage Racer easily, eat into the Gran Turismo sales and even forestall the Colin McRae games.
They couldn't predict that these things would be successful, besides Sega's market was always "arcade at home". You don't change what your whole market plan is just like that.
>do nothing with their up and running Saturn Sega Rally engine
Sega CS department (responsible for Sega Rally port) remade Daytona USA completely from scratch using the Sega Rally engine.
Neither Daytona CCE nor STCC were really good. A better bet would be expanded Sega Rally with more cars, tracks and a career mode.
GT didn't invent career mode in racing games anyway. Plenty NES and SNES games had it.
Even the home port of Sega Touring Car uses the Sega Rally engine
Er because that's a good idea? You have heard of Sega right?
They just threw daytona assets into the engine, broke the handling and called it a day. Good work guys
They are not even in the same category anon
One is an arcade racer, the other is simulation
They are both simcades, just one of them has a proper singleplayer mode while the other one is only a short arcade experience. I've spent hundreds of hours on GT and Sega racers. Daytona and Scud Race are the proper arcade racing games. GT goes into the sim territory with the later games (but not really too much).
GT1, STCC and Sega Rally are all strictly in the middle between the arcade and the simulation. They have a lot of in common
Sega Rally and fricken STCC aren't even close to Gran Turismo 1/2 in terms of realism, even Daytona is better.
I bought this for cheap back then and I was really impressed with the sense of speed. The music is cool, too. It plays great with the analog controller.
I would put it right behind Sega Rally when it comes to Saturn racers, personally.
Never gave this one a chance despite enjoying Sega's other racers during the era. Looked up footage and this looks really cool. Love the sense of speed and precision required to beat races.
Honestly just don't even try it, it's genuinely one of the worst handling, stuttering pieces of shit you could ever imagine
This game controls great on a Saturn emulator with a Dual Shock configured as a Saturn 3D Pad (analog pad). Maybe they just never playtested it with the digital pad or didn’t care. I stand by my opinion that this is one of the best Saturn racers.
Manx TT and Sega Rally also work well with this setup.
They pushed it early because they wanted to axe the Saturn as soon as possible and concentrate on the Dreamcast. Burning Rangers and House of the Dead also got rushed out early for the same reason.