is using a third party automap tool for retrogames cheating? I think it must be, since back in the day people didn't have access to those tools and they make the games a LOT easier, it's basically like using a walkthrough or watching a let's play on youtube, instead of playing it for real
I used Grid Cartographer for my runthrough of M&M 1. MI did it all manually though, I only used it because I'm a homosexual and I'm trying to go paperless.
In games that the mapping itself was a puzzle/challenge, yes
It varies by game how big a part that is, though.
Like, playing Phantasy Star 1 with an automap doesn't delete as much gameplay as adding an automap to Bard's Tale 1.
Games that come with automaps to begin with can't have any gameplay that resolves around making mapping tricky, so they need to provide other types of gameplay instead
not only that but mapping and the navigational challenge are part of the fun. exploring, getting lost and having a feel for the actual layout is what makes these games worth playing. for classic dungeon crawlers like wizardry, there's also a thorough risk/reward of venturing further and the need to return to safe ground. i can keep mapping, but i might die and lose my characters. the dungeon becomes the real enemy of the game, not the creatures within. these are mapping games.
Yes, because some games specifically go out of their way to confuse you, including with spinner tiles and teleports, which turn and move you. Depending on the game, it may tell you, or it may not.
You make compelling arguments. I guess mapping seems weird to me because I started playing dungeon crawlers with EotB2 which didn't require mapping, so to think you have to stop and draw every few steps seems like it would really slow down the gameplay
>so to think you have to stop and draw every few steps seems like it would really slow down the gameplay
It's relaxing and meditative. Etrian Odyssey got me into it because it has the map tools right there on the lower screen and you have the benefit of seeing exactly where you are on your map.
Yes, because some games specifically go out of their way to confuse you, including with spinner tiles and teleports, which turn and move you. Depending on the game, it may tell you, or it may not.
not only that but mapping and the navigational challenge are part of the fun. exploring, getting lost and having a feel for the actual layout is what makes these games worth playing. for classic dungeon crawlers like wizardry, there's also a thorough risk/reward of venturing further and the need to return to safe ground. i can keep mapping, but i might die and lose my characters. the dungeon becomes the real enemy of the game, not the creatures within. these are mapping games.
>also the Famicom version of Dragon Wars has an automap. Not sure about the original version
I played the DOS version and I don't remember its mapping system if any but I enjoyed it and finished it which seems to imply that it had automapping. (I have never drawn maps for that kind of game in my life.)
Switch port of Phantasy Star 1.
is using a third party automap tool for retrogames cheating? I think it must be, since back in the day people didn't have access to those tools and they make the games a LOT easier, it's basically like using a walkthrough or watching a let's play on youtube, instead of playing it for real
I used Grid Cartographer for my runthrough of M&M 1. MI did it all manually though, I only used it because I'm a homosexual and I'm trying to go paperless.
Diablo
ultima underworld.
You might as well not even play DRPGs if you're going to skip out on a large portion of the genre's identity.
did the devs really intend you to stop playing and draw some lines on paper every few steps??
The devs already had the maps drawn out.
In games that the mapping itself was a puzzle/challenge, yes
It varies by game how big a part that is, though.
Like, playing Phantasy Star 1 with an automap doesn't delete as much gameplay as adding an automap to Bard's Tale 1.
Games that come with automaps to begin with can't have any gameplay that resolves around making mapping tricky, so they need to provide other types of gameplay instead
You make compelling arguments. I guess mapping seems weird to me because I started playing dungeon crawlers with EotB2 which didn't require mapping, so to think you have to stop and draw every few steps seems like it would really slow down the gameplay
>so to think you have to stop and draw every few steps seems like it would really slow down the gameplay
It's relaxing and meditative. Etrian Odyssey got me into it because it has the map tools right there on the lower screen and you have the benefit of seeing exactly where you are on your map.
Yes, because some games specifically go out of their way to confuse you, including with spinner tiles and teleports, which turn and move you. Depending on the game, it may tell you, or it may not.
not only that but mapping and the navigational challenge are part of the fun. exploring, getting lost and having a feel for the actual layout is what makes these games worth playing. for classic dungeon crawlers like wizardry, there's also a thorough risk/reward of venturing further and the need to return to safe ground. i can keep mapping, but i might die and lose my characters. the dungeon becomes the real enemy of the game, not the creatures within. these are mapping games.
You've already made that thread several times
When?
Shadow Brain
Probably not what you were looking for but this is a really fun beginner friendly dungeon crawler
also the Famicom version of Dragon Wars has an automap. Not sure about the original version
>also the Famicom version of Dragon Wars has an automap. Not sure about the original version
I played the DOS version and I don't remember its mapping system if any but I enjoyed it and finished it which seems to imply that it had automapping. (I have never drawn maps for that kind of game in my life.)
d&d wotes, but it resets when you leave a dungeon
eye of beholder segacd you can find maps
Level 3 in Dungeon Master?
Might & Magic 3 to 5 have automaps if one of your party member has the cartographer skill.
Madou Monogatari I Honoo No Sotsuenji for the PCE CD, there's a english patch for it
>needing a map at all
I can do EotB without a map. I do wander a little bit, but I have the general lay out in mind.
Obligatory: