The lag varies depending on how you configure it, but for basic operation it should be about 2.5ms which is way less than one frame (16.66ms at 60fps). I don't know how much lag an emulator is going to add. I assumed that emulators could be almost lagless if the system running the emulator was properly configured.
Real hardware itself has lag too lol don't forget. Once you look into the numbers it really shows how disingenuous the gays complaining about flatscreens and emulators are
Real hardware itself doesn't lag, when the CPU updates the display registers they take effect immediately. Games *might* have deliberate input buffering which is how runahead works at all, but not all games do or it's short enough that it causes runahead to glitch out.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Real hardware itself doesn't lag
It literally does, everything lags just due to physics
6 months ago
Anonymous
Anon, the video doesn't just magically appear from the values in display registers. Before it can even appear on your screen, it has to go through some kind of DAC to generate the analog video signal and DACs, by their very nature, will introduce some delay.
I can't wait to watch TV on it, let alone play retro games. I thought the 1080p one was going to be an embarrassing manchild splurge, but that guy updates it with cool new stuff a million times more often than my fricking phone or Windows gets updates. It's like he wakes up early every single morning and goes straight to work on these things, adding every autistic feature suggested. I was absolutely not expecting it to be one of my favorite electronics, but it is. So I'm hyped as frick for this
It's small volume so it needs to be on an FPGA. You need really beefy FPGAs to be able to synthesize hardware that can handle 4K video. If it were made in large volumes with fabbed silicon, it'd probably be in the $100-$200 range.
I remember trying to buy a MiSTer and then found out it was $600. I'm like "it's not worth it", I wouldn't even pay $200 for it. It's worth at least $150. It's the same reason I never buy the ANALog console.
Why didn't you buy a DE-10 when they could easily be gotten for a $130? You think MiSTer costs $600 dollars because you're incapable of building anything for your self.
Why didn’t you get a girlfriend in high school when you had the chance? Now you’re going to die alone surrounddd by children’s toys.
6 months ago
Anonymous
I had a few girlfriends in highschool, I would never have married them though. Are you Mormon or something?
6 months ago
Anonymous
Because I got a girlfriend and don't need a mister.
Wow, that's some pretty sad cope. And even worse it's probably projection. Not only can't you build your own MiSTer. You can't even build a relationship.
Its probably great for capturing footage, but I dont see why you would buy that shit instead of a normal analog video switch and a crt, which will run you WAY LESS.
Playing retro games on a LCD with fricked up aspect ratio and sharp pixel edges is really gross and plebian.
I wonder what the target audience here is.
>why play on your 120'' crystal clear OLED TV with shaders when you can pick up a 27" HRT TV with bad geometry that makes ear piercing high pitched noise that take the same place of a fridge, ppl are le dumb!
That guy's just being ass but for me I play on consoles because it compels me to play more games for some reason. Go figure. And I have a really awesome living room and a bunch of consoles, so this device bridges those interests. Will also run a chromecast and the switch into it and probably do some moronic shit like play snes with surround sound on the big screen, watch old shows on the big fricking tv, etc
Its probably great for capturing footage, but I dont see why you would buy that shit instead of a normal analog video switch and a crt, which will run you WAY LESS.
Playing retro games on a LCD with fricked up aspect ratio and sharp pixel edges is really gross and plebian.
I wonder what the target audience here is.
hes right though
for 800$ you could hoard 2-3 midrange pvm monitors instead
as long as you are reasonable about size
i would just try to hoard as many low hour14" pvm and pvm style crt instead
to each their own
i have the 2x pro and its fine for what it is
and i've used it and rgb2comp more than i thought i would (sometimes even together)
having a modular setup options is appealing to me
but my 4k tv set isnt THAT nice so i dont see myself investing in it beyond shaderswangblows 10
for $800 you could: be buying a marshall jcm 900 full stack amplifier set or hoarding even more neogeo AES carts CiB
>hoarding PVM’s
You people are the reason we have to use upscalers in the first place. You’ll be dead of diabetes in 15 years anyways, yet you think you need a 200 year supply of CRT’s.
>using PVM to play retro games
You are part of the problem. Just get a fricking trinitron, which you can get for free or below $50 at most places in the world.
PVM are for morons who also buy upscalers or use RGB instead of composite.
Retrogaming has some many layers of mental moronation. It's insane.
>You are part of the problem
And what "problem" is that? Explain how it affects you
6 months ago
Anonymous
Taking part in a fake hallucinated "retro" culture where people start hoarding shit like pvm.
>morons who also buy upscalers or use RGB instead of composite.
using composite when bg is available is moronic, i had rgb scart for my ps1 as a kid
You most likely did not use the Sony RGB cable but the pack-in composite cinch scart cable and like every other eurogay who got no idea about video signals you think scart automatically means rgb.
>morons who also buy upscalers or use RGB instead of composite.
using composite when bg is available is moronic, i had rgb scart for my ps1 as a kid
6 months ago
Anonymous
>using composite when bg is available is moronic
Here's your PS1 games bro, EU style
6 months ago
Anonymous
>PS1 games
You are posting about a fringe case of certain consoles who don't handle dithering well where composite gives an advantage. The PS1 is not one of those consoles. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>fringe case
Just about every PS1 game is rendered on 16-bit colour, so yes I would say I know very rightly what I'm talking about
6 months ago
Anonymous
That is a lot of bits! Post a comparison proving your point.
6 months ago
Anonymous
A comparison between what
6 months ago
Anonymous
Composite blending of dithering isn't a universal thing. Fundamentally the practice came from taking advantage of the half-chroma resolution so if you put two *deliberately clashing* colors one-pixel apart composite would give you a 3rd, usually unattainable color. This is not what the PS1 is doing though, it's dithering is a practice designed to take advantage of the slight blurring/blending of pixels on CRTs to fake smoother gradients.
The 3dfx had arguably the BEST 16 bit dithering algorithm of all time and it was designed for RGBHV VGA cables. So saying the PS1 should be using composite is wrong, you should be using CRT and RGB Scart or at least S-Video.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>This is not what the PS1 is doing though, it's dithering is a practice designed to take advantage of the slight blurring/blending of pixels on CRTs to fake smoother gradients.
So suddenly the composite signal doesn't matter anymore, roflmao. The CRT itself doesn't know what a pixel is; by virtue of analogue technology, the scanline is continuous as opposed to digital. This does inevitably result in some softening but not enough to blend gradients when using RGB lol. The whole point of RGB is to isolate individual pixels through sheer frequency.
Look at this: FF7 on a CRT with RGB. Look at all the little specs on Cloud, his gloves and boots especially look almost glittery. Furthermore the "Warning!" panel on the right is not very convincing through RGB
6 months ago
Anonymous
Don't get hung up on the word pixel. Consoles are digital right up until the video encoder gets the data and you bet your boots there's a discrete transition 320 times per scanline.
But most importantly, composite only "blends" in the chroma domain NOT luma which is full bandwidth. Genesis dithering happened in the chroma space deliberately with chroma clash to generate "impossible" colors (or fake transparency, same idea.)
PS1 dithering mostly occurs in the luma part because it's more often than not trying to fake a shade halfway between a dark and a light pixel. And not even a major change, it's like a gradient between an 8-bit value of 200 and 210 dithered down to 6-bit.
Your TV probably has a composite blurring on by default, many of them did because composite ALSO had various cross-talk issues and dot-crawl and so adding an EXTRA blur in circuit was preferable.
6 months ago
Anonymous
That's a bunch of schizophrenic word salad.
Did you let ChatGPT write that bullshit?
You could just admit you were wrong, on a anonymous board on the internet there is no reputational damage for you associated with it, just the damage to your bloated ego.
6 months ago
Anonymous
It doesn't read like a chatgpt dump so he really is this moronic
6 months ago
Anonymous
>you bet your boots there's a discrete transition 320 times per scanline.
I also bet you the DAC in the video out makes your entire argument irrelevant. The CRT doesn't know the frickin finer details and methodically go about blurring inbetween them; it receives an analogue signal and shits it out. Frick, mate, that's WHY spastics yap on about the lower latency of CRT's. >composite only "blends" in the chroma domain NOT luma
Composite carries chroma and luma simultaneously... That's literally why it's called composite; it composites them. Do words not literally mean anything to you? What the frick are you even talking about at this point?
6 months ago
Anonymous
The signal isn't as "continous analog" as you think it is. The color information is encoded in a carrier wave and this places an upper limit on how often you can transition from one colour to another. Ever wondered why we used 720x480 as the standard digital resolution for SD content? It wasn't picked arbitrarily, 720 just happens to be the MAXIMUM number of discrete transitions you can have in an NTSC signal (discarding overscan).
RGBHV through SCART or VGA D-Sub IS true analog. composite is 720+overscan transitions per scanline encoded in an analog transmission.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Is it "discrete transitions" or do the limitations of the cables and the television result in diminishing returns given wider resolutions?
6 months ago
Anonymous
>or at least S-Video
Here's FF7 with S-Video. LOOKIN GOOD
6 months ago
Anonymous
Oh wow switched to composite and its suddenly not a chessboard anymore
6 months ago
Anonymous
The text becomes blurry and unreadable.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Funny cause the overwhelming majority of people used composite and were still able to call a text-heavy title like FF7 the best game ever made. Almost like you're an obtuse homosexual who needs glasses
6 months ago
Anonymous
>FF7 the best game ever made
These are the people who use composite. Jarpig fans.
6 months ago
Anonymous
You have a bad S-Video cable. That's not dithering, that's chroma sub-sampling errors. Happens all the time when some chinese company decides it's cheaper to just connect composite to both pins. The cable is carrying composite but the TV is trying to decode it as full bandwidth chroma and you get a half-on/half-off pattern of dots.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>TV is trying to decode >decode
c**t it's frickin analogue technology
6 months ago
Anonymous
Composite is encoded video, it has to be decoded. You have RGB electron beams, the incoming signal over composite is luma/chroma + sync encoded in a carrier wave. You can decode this with analog circuitry and for a long time it was before we started doing it with TTL and digital logic.
So if there's a mismatch between what the TV is decoding and what the incoming signal is, you'll get incorrect results.
PAL/NTSC is a different encoding of composite color. The tube is identical in both cases, but the decode circuit is different.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>designed to take advantage of the slight blurring/blending of pixels on CRT
Which is caused by using a composite signal you fricking zoomer. If you use RGB or VGA nothing will fricking blend.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Indirectly. It's not a desired effect that composite is a low quality signal and so your TV's composite decoder will have blurring APPLIED to it to reduce interference, crosstalk, dot crawl, etc. You'd get the same effect with RGB by turning the sharpness control down.
VGA monitors have a much finer focus on the scan beams to hit higher dot pitches, TVs were deliberately slightly unfocused (in addition to lower pitch masks) by default. VGA vs RGB is a different argument because of this.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Man not only are you obviously mentally ill, but also quite obviously dumb as a rock and got zero idea what you are talking about.
6 months ago
Anonymous
The ps1 makes heavy use of dithering, if you're not playing ps1 with composite you're basically janking a big piece out of the post processing pipeline.
That's why moronic "retro nerd" secondaries are always just the worst. Got no idea how things actually work and operate under the delusion they can "improve" the intended graphical pipeline with aftermarket components, while actually degrading visual quality.
You won't be able to switch out those 480p assets and low poly models by using RGB, but you will break the post processing pipeline.
6 months ago
Anonymous
The entire graphics pipeline of the psx is based on dither overlays that are there to get blended by composite.
Yes, “The Problem”, aka “I got my PVMs when they were dirt cheap and you didn’t, and are now priced out of the experience.” It is a problem. For you. 🙂
6 months ago
Anonymous
Only idiot secondaries use pvm.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>not emulating on a 15-year old laptop
Frick that, frick you.
The guy's always been good about keeping his shit in stock, so I don't think it's that. That's analogue shit.
It's just youtube guru devotees who all buy the latest retro products with the same fervor people buy the latest iPhone.
Not fear of missing out, but fear of not having the latest thing first.
Why would they be seething when they are enjoying the real deal?
They're laughing at you. You're the equivalent of a guy buying a Nissan Micra at the price of a BMW M3 and when everyone else points and laughs at your stupidity, you think they're seething.
you are comparing a old console to a nissan micra,a neo geo AES holds value and increases in value,a shit car loses value,you make a false equivalence argument,consoles are more akin to classic cars.
stay mad mr poor lmao
your rom folder on your shitty pc will never feel the same or be as cool as my consoles
Hmm, only $750 when he had previously been saying "budget for $1000"; this is pleasantly below that estimate. I'm tempted to buy it. I have a RAD 2x being delivered. If that turns out to be shit I might buy this. The OSSC Pro was recently shown, but it can't do full 4k.
I love my 5x. I get the whole "just get a crt" defense, and I have several. But there will come a time when finding a working crt will become difficult. Meanwhile, the market is oversaturated with hdmi televisions and monitors. There will never be a shortage. I want to just plug my shit up and have it work and look great, which is what the retrotink does.
I will get a 4k down the line, specifically to use with a 4k projector. Mike has stated in the past that he intends to support and continue having his scalers manufactured for years so I can comfortably get it whenever really.
I totally get that and I'm not dissing FPGA stuff either. But I can easily get replacements and work on the motherboards if necessary. A dedicated FPGA clone is nice and good and I'd like one someday, but I'll stick with what I've already got and replace things as needed for now. I have and use the NES and SNES mini systems as well and they're fine.
Collectors with too much money to waste are going to buy this to upscale old content like dvds and VHS. Its not just going to be retrogamers buying these 4k scalers.
Using it for VHS upscaling isn't that beneficial. The issue with analog media is rectifying the signal. In the case of VHS there are tools for capturing the signal and then cleaning up the signal then post corrections. This could still be put through an upscaler. But may as well just upscale it in post editing and record that.
>380 USD
Absolutely embarrassing that it looks worse than something I 3D printed in CAD class 10 years ago. Why can none of these people get the presentation right? Even budget hardware looks better assembled and rich gays don’t want such cheap shit on the shelf by their $5000 TV.
Are those dots individual 4k pixels? But some of them look rectangular, particularly some of the green ones. Are they 1x2 pixel rectangles or do pixels actually look rectangular when you zoom in on a flat screen?
Why have the scaler do 4k at all?
The entire reason for retro gaming scalers being a thing in the first place is that a lot of TVs don't recognize 240p signals properly and instead handle them as 480i.
That issue gets resolved just by linedoubling 240p to 480p. The TV can handle the rest, or you can get an HDFury to frick with the signal up to 8k if you really wanted to.
It's seems if you don't trust your TV's upscaling of 480p then you might want this. But it also does a lot of stuff like BFI, CRT effects, HDR, it can rotate the image 90 degrees for tate, implements various scaling and de-interlacing methods, can actually downscale too if you want to display on a CRT. It seems to do a huge amount of stuff. But I too am a bit mystified as to the value of if, except that 4k CRT effects with zero latency might be cool. You can plug HDMI into it, so you could add CRT effects to a Switch game, for example. But there are no good videos of the CRT effects because people always say the video compression will spoil the effect, it seems it needs to be seen in person.
There's more than enough examples out there how RGB is a inferior signal for everything up to and partioally including PS2.
People who get themselves a expensive PVM (never used outside of fringe cases) only to play with RGB (either modded in or via aftermarket cables) might as well emulate, because the visual quality they're chasing is the "emulation" quality where you look at raw assets without any of the analog post processing intact.
>There's more than enough examples out there how RGB is a inferior signal for everything up to and partioally including PS2.
Arcades used RGB since the 80s. Hardly a fringe case.
>Arcades used RGB since the 80s. Hardly a fringe case.
Ah yes, who doesn't remember having their own arcade cabinet in the 90s?
We were just talking about home consoles you fricking Black person.
How does Daytona possibly using RGB (I dont know, I have not checked) change the fact that consumer devices not only used composite in 90% of use cases but the graphics also being designed for that pipeline?
>We were just talking about home consoles you fricking Black person.
I like arcade games.
>Muh arcades
And yet the sheer amount of dithering in arcade games shows a clear advantage in using composite IF it were available. The thing is, it WASN'T available due to the mass-produced JAMMA-compliant arcade machines having already been standardised a certain way—no dev b***hing to Logistics about how they must break rank with the production line to get bespoke components would have been taken seriously. No artist could explain to an exec why this was apparently more advantageous for business than recycling existing arcade hardware; the exec would tell them to stfu and find a way to market it as a good thing
>JAMMA-compliant arcade machines having already been standardised a certain way
Silly Jamma, they should have used RF as the standard but got scammed into using RGB!
>Muh arcades
And yet the sheer amount of dithering in arcade games shows a clear advantage in using composite IF it were available. The thing is, it WASN'T available due to the mass-produced JAMMA-compliant arcade machines having already been standardised a certain way—no dev b***hing to Logistics about how they must break rank with the production line to get bespoke components would have been taken seriously. No artist could explain to an exec why this was apparently more advantageous for business than recycling existing arcade hardware; the exec would tell them to stfu and find a way to market it as a good thing
>Why not just get a cheap/free crt tv with s-video inputs?
Does not exist anymore, at least in the US. And also cheap consumer CRTs are dim, blurry pieces of shit.
Also old games look surprisingly good on my OLED TV.
I literally live in a bumfrick town of like 5k people in the middle of the Ozarks. There are no CRTs left here. They got snatched up by the people who make their living scouring thrift shops for shit they can flip.
There isn't really a market for CRT yet.
Hoarding then must be the dumbest thing ever.
That being said - if crt were to become a market you'd see repro CRT getting manufactured in china in no time.
Maybe a decade ago, but you could drive into buttfrick nowhere, Texas and struggle to find a decent working CRT because most people have completely trashed them.
[...]
The retrotink 4k is slightly less niche than previous retrotinks. I've seen some enthusiasm from video nerds and old computer enthusiasts for upscaling obscure formats. But that's also why it's so expensive: supporting literally every input outside of the weird one-off shit is expensive.
I honestly think you two never really looked for CRTs in your local area.
Unless you are living in some ultra urban inner city you gotta be able to locate some cheap CRT. If not - then you're probably in that part of the world where CRT are rare and sought after.
I got a huge crt from some farm recently. Farmer switched to LCD and wanted to get rid of it.
You gotta look out for that kinda stuff
Maybe a decade ago, but you could drive into buttfrick nowhere, Texas and struggle to find a decent working CRT because most people have completely trashed them.
>This won't stay $750 forever. There's competition from Pixel FX that will drive the price down.
This isn't some consumer device being produced by a large corporation for the masses. I have no idea how much profit Mike is making on these things, there has to be SOME profit, but I assume it's not a large margin. This is a very niche device for a very niche group among a niche group. You don't waste time and money making products for such a group unless you have an actual personal investment in whatever that group is interested in, which in this case would be retro game video quality.
So I assume the profits do exist, but are not large. Coupled with it not being some mega-corp producing them and the price likely can't be cut down too low unless the components also go down in price considerably. Believe me, I would love for this thing to be considerably cheaper, but these kinds of home-made devices for niche groups rarely do since there is such a small market (How many people who even play retro games at all even CARE about the video signal instead of just plugging the hdmi cable from their Walmart special emulation box into their 4KLCD not even set to game mode and use a bluetooth controller?) and it's mostly filled by other fans of said market and not large corps that can pump them out for much cheaper prices.
Sadly, in this kind of market where it's very niche homebrew devices for a very niche group competition doesn't drop prices by much, they can't afford to drop them by much like a massive corp making a product for the masses can.
The retrotink 4k is slightly less niche than previous retrotinks. I've seen some enthusiasm from video nerds and old computer enthusiasts for upscaling obscure formats. But that's also why it's so expensive: supporting literally every input outside of the weird one-off shit is expensive.
I hope it's better for old computer enthusiasts than the 5x because I've heard nothing but bad things about using it for anything besides the game consoles mike chi knows about.
You can purchase a PC capture card for less than $100. Then install reshade over your video player. It has CRT-Royale now along with lots of other good /vr/ related shaders.
>lag
I've not done this personally but discussion about the subject on Ganker indicated it should be negligible.
capture cards dont add lag through the HDMI out (where you cant apply filters too), but adds lag if you play through the windows output (where you would have to do to use reshade)
>but adds lag if you play through the windows output (where you would have to do to use reshade)
According to discussions I've had with some of the Ganker nerds in the mpv threads the lag should not be any more than using a device like the Retrotink would add. About one frame.
The worry that Windows will "add lag" seems to be unfounded these days.
There are laggy capture cards and there are near-lagless capture cards. It's a whole subject to dive into. The same goes for the software configuration.
This won't stay $750 forever. There's competition from Pixel FX that will drive the price down. So just wait if you want one, or get the Pixel FX version when it releases.
The fpga in the tink costs about what the whole morph does off the shelf. The morph had its price out first, and who really knows, but I feel like it would already have forced the price cut on the tink
>This won't stay $750 forever. There's competition from Pixel FX that will drive the price down.
This isn't some consumer device being produced by a large corporation for the masses. I have no idea how much profit Mike is making on these things, there has to be SOME profit, but I assume it's not a large margin. This is a very niche device for a very niche group among a niche group. You don't waste time and money making products for such a group unless you have an actual personal investment in whatever that group is interested in, which in this case would be retro game video quality.
So I assume the profits do exist, but are not large. Coupled with it not being some mega-corp producing them and the price likely can't be cut down too low unless the components also go down in price considerably. Believe me, I would love for this thing to be considerably cheaper, but these kinds of home-made devices for niche groups rarely do since there is such a small market (How many people who even play retro games at all even CARE about the video signal instead of just plugging the hdmi cable from their Walmart special emulation box into their 4KLCD not even set to game mode and use a bluetooth controller?) and it's mostly filled by other fans of said market and not large corps that can pump them out for much cheaper prices.
Sadly, in this kind of market where it's very niche homebrew devices for a very niche group competition doesn't drop prices by much, they can't afford to drop them by much like a massive corp making a product for the masses can.
I want one, but it's way too expensive for me right now for what it is. Going to wait until the OSSC Pro is out too, no matter how many years that takes. Not really expecting the OSSC Pro to be any cheaper, in fact I expect it to cost more, but at least then so there will be more than one good 4K upscaler on the market and I can compare any differences before dedicating to something so expensive.
I just don't want to deal with CRTs anymore, there are less and less of them in the world every day and even the newest ones (which would suck for retro gaming anyway) are almost a decade old... to say nothing about their size and weight. Would be a lot easier just to try to make older systems work as best as they can on newer screens than trying to cling to 20-30+ year old large heavy screens.
... but HOLY FRICK is $750 expensive! Why do these even use a FPGA chip? Aren't those to emulate processors or other discrete ICs? Why would you need them to upscale video?
don't have enough nostalgia or patience to be autistic enough to spend $750 just to make my old consoles look good. i bought some shit 20 dollar usb powered box on amazon and it literally just works if i ever need it, and i just emulate literally anything and everything on my Steam Deck now instead. frick all that shit. $750 was essentially what i paid for my entire gaming collection and i have over 400 cartridges laying around from over the years.
Is 4k for retro games even needed? I feel like 1080p+ scaling on 4k TVs is pretty damn good, so all you need to do is scale from 240p to 1080 and youre good to go. Is this mostly for 480i/p stuff that doesn't scale well?
>I feel like 1080p+ scaling on 4k TVs is pretty damn good.
The scaling is always with film content in mind, there’s nearly always a filter added to the overall image which reduces sharpness. Integer scaling is pretty rare on 4k sets so I’m glad these scalers are on the way.
the prices is looking good after that 1k warning. the marketing maneuver worked
I'll probably get one. it is infuriating that I need one, though. clean scaling and a wide variety of inputs should be something that every single monitor or tv should do out of the box
It turns out I was wrong, he paid less than $250 for the fpgas. That motherfricker gambled with the Chinese and won. Mostly by agreeing to buy a shit load of them from the third world
Composite on a CRT is my favorite way to play vidya.
Composite on a flat panel is a hideous washed out blurry nightmare on a flat panel. I found this out in 2006 after connecting my N64 to my new tv. It is seriously unplayably ugly, especially if the game was 240p.
That screen is so small that a 240p image on it was like looking at an unscaled 320x240 window on a 27" 1080p screen, no shit you don't need to worry about any kind of blending or blurring.
Hey friends, I'm wondering if someone in this thread could help me understand what's going on with my setup. webm related is recorded with my phone off of my 4k TV, connected to a N64 via the RAD2X. See how the lines are distorted? It's particularly noticeable if you look at the bottom of the character's sideburn. Is this because the RAD2X is messing up its deinterlacing? Or is it because the TV is doing bad upscaling from 480p?
Ok, I fixed it. The TV wasn't in "Game Mode" (I had to turn game mode off and turn it back on again). I'm noticing some parts of the picture are flickering, it is noticeable if you look at the character's right hand. Is that because of the RAD2x or the N64 output or something else?
think i'll be sticking with my $150 mini PC and a handful of shaders personally.
i will screencap soipogging redditors ordering this stupid shit though.
If the roms are free why the frick would anyone spend money on hardware.
Roms contain software.
I like the hardware itself.
Eat my shit.
Honestly I’m kinda surprised it’s that cheap
“That cheap”
When the 5X was in development Mike was basically saying “lol no a 4K scaler is impossible”
And now it’s a thing.
>Just a scaler
>Somehow more than dedicated FPGA consoles
No thanks.
>MORE lag than just emulating
But at least we're using real hardware (but not on a CRT), right guys?
I think it's guaranteed to be one frame of lag only in most circumstances.
Actually, in normal use you might only have 2.5ms of lag so way less than one frame.
Is that one frame more than emulating?
The lag varies depending on how you configure it, but for basic operation it should be about 2.5ms which is way less than one frame (16.66ms at 60fps). I don't know how much lag an emulator is going to add. I assumed that emulators could be almost lagless if the system running the emulator was properly configured.
Real hardware itself has lag too lol don't forget. Once you look into the numbers it really shows how disingenuous the gays complaining about flatscreens and emulators are
Real hardware itself doesn't lag, when the CPU updates the display registers they take effect immediately. Games *might* have deliberate input buffering which is how runahead works at all, but not all games do or it's short enough that it causes runahead to glitch out.
>Real hardware itself doesn't lag
It literally does, everything lags just due to physics
Anon, the video doesn't just magically appear from the values in display registers. Before it can even appear on your screen, it has to go through some kind of DAC to generate the analog video signal and DACs, by their very nature, will introduce some delay.
I can't wait to watch TV on it, let alone play retro games. I thought the 1080p one was going to be an embarrassing manchild splurge, but that guy updates it with cool new stuff a million times more often than my fricking phone or Windows gets updates. It's like he wakes up early every single morning and goes straight to work on these things, adding every autistic feature suggested. I was absolutely not expecting it to be one of my favorite electronics, but it is. So I'm hyped as frick for this
Failed astroturfing lol. Buy an ad
Sirs this is very good deal. I will also purchase Retrotink4k sirs
Again dude, more for me. It's not a good deal, buy something cheaper if you don't know what it is
Why is this shit so expensive? It's insane. I'm not made of money. It's better to get a real CRT at this point.
>Why is this shit so expensive?
because most of people who play retro games are manbabies with more money than sense
It's small volume so it needs to be on an FPGA. You need really beefy FPGAs to be able to synthesize hardware that can handle 4K video. If it were made in large volumes with fabbed silicon, it'd probably be in the $100-$200 range.
it's literally made in some dude's garage and is probably the best upscaler on the market
>>muh OSSC
this is plug in play and doesn't require tons of effort like the OSSC
It's like audiophile shit. They can charge any price and there will be morons that will pay for it.
Also the fpga is 500 bucks
You're telling me this thing has a more powerful FPGA than the MiSTer just to upscale video?
4k takes a lot of logic, especially with all the shaders and other features. It’s not like the MiSter’s FPGA is that powerful either.
Yeah I'll rather buy a $600 Mister
Try $350 you doughnut.
Nta, but it really is $600.
Sorry you buy at sticker prices
I don't buy overpriced emulator boxes. I prefer actual hardware.
I remember trying to buy a MiSTer and then found out it was $600. I'm like "it's not worth it", I wouldn't even pay $200 for it. It's worth at least $150. It's the same reason I never buy the ANALog console.
Analog is certainly the worst. I mean holy shit, how do they expect people to buy their products when it's heavily overpriced?
But they do, people buy their products and they sell out all the time.
Those people are stupid.
Why didn't you buy a DE-10 when they could easily be gotten for a $130? You think MiSTer costs $600 dollars because you're incapable of building anything for your self.
Why didn’t you get a girlfriend in high school when you had the chance? Now you’re going to die alone surrounddd by children’s toys.
I had a few girlfriends in highschool, I would never have married them though. Are you Mormon or something?
Wow, that's some pretty sad cope. And even worse it's probably projection. Not only can't you build your own MiSTer. You can't even build a relationship.
Because I got a girlfriend and don't need a mister.
homosexual
homosexuals buy a mister
>Gonna consoooooooom
Seriously though, I'm getting one.
Its probably great for capturing footage, but I dont see why you would buy that shit instead of a normal analog video switch and a crt, which will run you WAY LESS.
Playing retro games on a LCD with fricked up aspect ratio and sharp pixel edges is really gross and plebian.
I wonder what the target audience here is.
Rich snobs.
>why play on your 120'' crystal clear OLED TV with shaders when you can pick up a 27" HRT TV with bad geometry that makes ear piercing high pitched noise that take the same place of a fridge, ppl are le dumb!
Well why not emulate in the first place if you're running that kinda setup?
That guy's just being ass but for me I play on consoles because it compels me to play more games for some reason. Go figure. And I have a really awesome living room and a bunch of consoles, so this device bridges those interests. Will also run a chromecast and the switch into it and probably do some moronic shit like play snes with surround sound on the big screen, watch old shows on the big fricking tv, etc
hes right though
for 800$ you could hoard 2-3 midrange pvm monitors instead
as long as you are reasonable about size
i would just try to hoard as many low hour14" pvm and pvm style crt instead
to each their own
i have the 2x pro and its fine for what it is
and i've used it and rgb2comp more than i thought i would (sometimes even together)
having a modular setup options is appealing to me
but my 4k tv set isnt THAT nice so i dont see myself investing in it beyond shaderswangblows 10
for $800 you could:
be buying a marshall jcm 900 full stack amplifier set or hoarding even more neogeo AES carts CiB
>hoarding PVM’s
You people are the reason we have to use upscalers in the first place. You’ll be dead of diabetes in 15 years anyways, yet you think you need a 200 year supply of CRT’s.
>using PVM to play retro games
You are part of the problem. Just get a fricking trinitron, which you can get for free or below $50 at most places in the world.
PVM are for morons who also buy upscalers or use RGB instead of composite.
Retrogaming has some many layers of mental moronation. It's insane.
>You are part of the problem
And what "problem" is that? Explain how it affects you
Taking part in a fake hallucinated "retro" culture where people start hoarding shit like pvm.
You most likely did not use the Sony RGB cable but the pack-in composite cinch scart cable and like every other eurogay who got no idea about video signals you think scart automatically means rgb.
>seething about people using RGB instead of composite
This is your mental moronation hangup, homosexual-ass glass house motherfricker.
>morons who also buy upscalers or use RGB instead of composite.
using composite when bg is available is moronic, i had rgb scart for my ps1 as a kid
>using composite when bg is available is moronic
Here's your PS1 games bro, EU style
>PS1 games
You are posting about a fringe case of certain consoles who don't handle dithering well where composite gives an advantage. The PS1 is not one of those consoles. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
>fringe case
Just about every PS1 game is rendered on 16-bit colour, so yes I would say I know very rightly what I'm talking about
That is a lot of bits! Post a comparison proving your point.
A comparison between what
Composite blending of dithering isn't a universal thing. Fundamentally the practice came from taking advantage of the half-chroma resolution so if you put two *deliberately clashing* colors one-pixel apart composite would give you a 3rd, usually unattainable color. This is not what the PS1 is doing though, it's dithering is a practice designed to take advantage of the slight blurring/blending of pixels on CRTs to fake smoother gradients.
The 3dfx had arguably the BEST 16 bit dithering algorithm of all time and it was designed for RGBHV VGA cables. So saying the PS1 should be using composite is wrong, you should be using CRT and RGB Scart or at least S-Video.
>This is not what the PS1 is doing though, it's dithering is a practice designed to take advantage of the slight blurring/blending of pixels on CRTs to fake smoother gradients.
So suddenly the composite signal doesn't matter anymore, roflmao. The CRT itself doesn't know what a pixel is; by virtue of analogue technology, the scanline is continuous as opposed to digital. This does inevitably result in some softening but not enough to blend gradients when using RGB lol. The whole point of RGB is to isolate individual pixels through sheer frequency.
Look at this: FF7 on a CRT with RGB. Look at all the little specs on Cloud, his gloves and boots especially look almost glittery. Furthermore the "Warning!" panel on the right is not very convincing through RGB
Don't get hung up on the word pixel. Consoles are digital right up until the video encoder gets the data and you bet your boots there's a discrete transition 320 times per scanline.
But most importantly, composite only "blends" in the chroma domain NOT luma which is full bandwidth. Genesis dithering happened in the chroma space deliberately with chroma clash to generate "impossible" colors (or fake transparency, same idea.)
PS1 dithering mostly occurs in the luma part because it's more often than not trying to fake a shade halfway between a dark and a light pixel. And not even a major change, it's like a gradient between an 8-bit value of 200 and 210 dithered down to 6-bit.
Your TV probably has a composite blurring on by default, many of them did because composite ALSO had various cross-talk issues and dot-crawl and so adding an EXTRA blur in circuit was preferable.
That's a bunch of schizophrenic word salad.
Did you let ChatGPT write that bullshit?
You could just admit you were wrong, on a anonymous board on the internet there is no reputational damage for you associated with it, just the damage to your bloated ego.
It doesn't read like a chatgpt dump so he really is this moronic
>you bet your boots there's a discrete transition 320 times per scanline.
I also bet you the DAC in the video out makes your entire argument irrelevant. The CRT doesn't know the frickin finer details and methodically go about blurring inbetween them; it receives an analogue signal and shits it out. Frick, mate, that's WHY spastics yap on about the lower latency of CRT's.
>composite only "blends" in the chroma domain NOT luma
Composite carries chroma and luma simultaneously... That's literally why it's called composite; it composites them. Do words not literally mean anything to you? What the frick are you even talking about at this point?
The signal isn't as "continous analog" as you think it is. The color information is encoded in a carrier wave and this places an upper limit on how often you can transition from one colour to another. Ever wondered why we used 720x480 as the standard digital resolution for SD content? It wasn't picked arbitrarily, 720 just happens to be the MAXIMUM number of discrete transitions you can have in an NTSC signal (discarding overscan).
RGBHV through SCART or VGA D-Sub IS true analog. composite is 720+overscan transitions per scanline encoded in an analog transmission.
Is it "discrete transitions" or do the limitations of the cables and the television result in diminishing returns given wider resolutions?
>or at least S-Video
Here's FF7 with S-Video. LOOKIN GOOD
Oh wow switched to composite and its suddenly not a chessboard anymore
The text becomes blurry and unreadable.
Funny cause the overwhelming majority of people used composite and were still able to call a text-heavy title like FF7 the best game ever made. Almost like you're an obtuse homosexual who needs glasses
>FF7 the best game ever made
These are the people who use composite. Jarpig fans.
You have a bad S-Video cable. That's not dithering, that's chroma sub-sampling errors. Happens all the time when some chinese company decides it's cheaper to just connect composite to both pins. The cable is carrying composite but the TV is trying to decode it as full bandwidth chroma and you get a half-on/half-off pattern of dots.
>TV is trying to decode
>decode
c**t it's frickin analogue technology
Composite is encoded video, it has to be decoded. You have RGB electron beams, the incoming signal over composite is luma/chroma + sync encoded in a carrier wave. You can decode this with analog circuitry and for a long time it was before we started doing it with TTL and digital logic.
So if there's a mismatch between what the TV is decoding and what the incoming signal is, you'll get incorrect results.
PAL/NTSC is a different encoding of composite color. The tube is identical in both cases, but the decode circuit is different.
>designed to take advantage of the slight blurring/blending of pixels on CRT
Which is caused by using a composite signal you fricking zoomer. If you use RGB or VGA nothing will fricking blend.
Indirectly. It's not a desired effect that composite is a low quality signal and so your TV's composite decoder will have blurring APPLIED to it to reduce interference, crosstalk, dot crawl, etc. You'd get the same effect with RGB by turning the sharpness control down.
VGA monitors have a much finer focus on the scan beams to hit higher dot pitches, TVs were deliberately slightly unfocused (in addition to lower pitch masks) by default. VGA vs RGB is a different argument because of this.
Man not only are you obviously mentally ill, but also quite obviously dumb as a rock and got zero idea what you are talking about.
The ps1 makes heavy use of dithering, if you're not playing ps1 with composite you're basically janking a big piece out of the post processing pipeline.
That's why moronic "retro nerd" secondaries are always just the worst. Got no idea how things actually work and operate under the delusion they can "improve" the intended graphical pipeline with aftermarket components, while actually degrading visual quality.
You won't be able to switch out those 480p assets and low poly models by using RGB, but you will break the post processing pipeline.
The entire graphics pipeline of the psx is based on dither overlays that are there to get blended by composite.
Yes, “The Problem”, aka “I got my PVMs when they were dirt cheap and you didn’t, and are now priced out of the experience.” It is a problem. For you. 🙂
Only idiot secondaries use pvm.
>not emulating on a 15-year old laptop
Frick that, frick you.
>120"
Hope you're wearing blue-blocking shades memeboi
>ear piercing high pitched noise
You outed yourself with this
What age is this supposed to stop at? I am 30 and it is as loud as ever.
I don't understand, I'm 32 and can still hear those high pitched sounds that "only children" can hear
Sounds like rich people problems.
>I wonder what the target audience here is.
Redditors who upload images of their gaming rooms
This looks good during split screen gameplay.
>This looks good during split screen gameplay.
But the split for 2-player mode in SMK64 is horizontal.
you mean vertical
do I?
yews the split is vertical if it was horizontal itd be perfect for that wide tv
See that horizontal black line going through the middle of the image? That's the split, and it's a horizontal split.
You're an moron
Looks pretty frickin cool to me
>out of stock
Are people braindead enough to spend 750 bucks on something like this or did they only just make 3 of them
It's FOMO
The guy's always been good about keeping his shit in stock, so I don't think it's that. That's analogue shit.
It's just youtube guru devotees who all buy the latest retro products with the same fervor people buy the latest iPhone.
Not fear of missing out, but fear of not having the latest thing first.
>Not fear of missing out, but fear of not having the latest thing first.
This is one and the same.
It's not up for sale yet, the description says it'll go on sale when they have the units in inventory some time next month
This is like the 1950's where one guy in the neighborhood gets a color tv and all the neighbors are seething
Lots of seething CRTards in this thread.
Why would they be seething when they are enjoying the real deal?
They're laughing at you. You're the equivalent of a guy buying a Nissan Micra at the price of a BMW M3 and when everyone else points and laughs at your stupidity, you think they're seething.
lmao you are seething
you are comparing a old console to a nissan micra,a neo geo AES holds value and increases in value,a shit car loses value,you make a false equivalence argument,consoles are more akin to classic cars.
stay mad mr poor lmao
your rom folder on your shitty pc will never feel the same or be as cool as my consoles
cope,stay mad,die mad
>collecting retro games just to play them on a modern display
>spending $750 on a fricking upscaler
A NEO-GEO AES has $0 value to an emu-chad, and it's hilarious every time a 'richgay' buys one. Keep hoarding though!
Hmm, only $750 when he had previously been saying "budget for $1000"; this is pleasantly below that estimate. I'm tempted to buy it. I have a RAD 2x being delivered. If that turns out to be shit I might buy this. The OSSC Pro was recently shown, but it can't do full 4k.
I have a retrotink 5x pro and I balked at the price, but it ended up being totally worth it. All the other solutions besides CRT suck.
That said I'm not spending that on a 4k device unless mine explodes or something.
I love my 5x. I get the whole "just get a crt" defense, and I have several. But there will come a time when finding a working crt will become difficult. Meanwhile, the market is oversaturated with hdmi televisions and monitors. There will never be a shortage. I want to just plug my shit up and have it work and look great, which is what the retrotink does.
I will get a 4k down the line, specifically to use with a 4k projector. Mike has stated in the past that he intends to support and continue having his scalers manufactured for years so I can comfortably get it whenever really.
>But there will come a time when finding a working crt will become difficult.
Do you know that this also applies to consoles?
16 bits consoles are already dying:
Emulation and FPGA Emulation is the way to go
>snes
We all know the first SNES chips are bad.
I totally get that and I'm not dissing FPGA stuff either. But I can easily get replacements and work on the motherboards if necessary. A dedicated FPGA clone is nice and good and I'd like one someday, but I'll stick with what I've already got and replace things as needed for now. I have and use the NES and SNES mini systems as well and they're fine.
shill post
I'll only get one if the recording on it is any good. I have a 5x connected to my Avermedia 4k card and it does the job.
I'll just get pixel fx's gem thing, seems cheap and easy enough
>I'll just get pixel fx's gem thing
>The Retro GEM must be soldered into your gaming console. These modifications are advanced and require a high level of soldering skill.
i swear i have on e of those from Amazon and it's like 20 bucks
Collectors with too much money to waste are going to buy this to upscale old content like dvds and VHS. Its not just going to be retrogamers buying these 4k scalers.
Using it for VHS upscaling isn't that beneficial. The issue with analog media is rectifying the signal. In the case of VHS there are tools for capturing the signal and then cleaning up the signal then post corrections. This could still be put through an upscaler. But may as well just upscale it in post editing and record that.
>all this just to give you a CRT image with lag
bruh just use a CRT to begin with
what does this do that gbs-8200 with gbs control cant do
4k and CRT effects
>CRT effects
these never look good though you dont need them
They never look good below 4k. People say they look good at 4k. I don't know myself. Was just answering your question.
ossc pro has just launched also 380 usd https://videogameperfection.com/products/ossc-pro/
>380 USD
Absolutely embarrassing that it looks worse than something I 3D printed in CAD class 10 years ago. Why can none of these people get the presentation right? Even budget hardware looks better assembled and rich gays don’t want such cheap shit on the shelf by their $5000 TV.
>$5000 TV
What a fricking clown.
>gays
You said it, not me.
>OSSC!
Ya, if you want a hunk of shit, sure, look I liked my OSSC when it was the only option, then I got a 5k and the difference was staggering.
Id like to have the new Tink just for cleaning up my Switch and my other consoles but I doubt ill be able to get one.
YOW! 4k of sexy autistic detail. Kind of speaks for itself doesn't it?
Looks like... absolute shit?
Here's another sexually arousing close up from this thing to get you all hot and bothered
Are those dots individual 4k pixels? But some of them look rectangular, particularly some of the green ones. Are they 1x2 pixel rectangles or do pixels actually look rectangular when you zoom in on a flat screen?
It'd be good if we had direct feed of the CRT effect so we could look at the pixels directly.
Total waste of money just like the MiSTer or the EON Xbox HD converter. I would never buy this piece of junk.
Why have the scaler do 4k at all?
The entire reason for retro gaming scalers being a thing in the first place is that a lot of TVs don't recognize 240p signals properly and instead handle them as 480i.
That issue gets resolved just by linedoubling 240p to 480p. The TV can handle the rest, or you can get an HDFury to frick with the signal up to 8k if you really wanted to.
It's seems if you don't trust your TV's upscaling of 480p then you might want this. But it also does a lot of stuff like BFI, CRT effects, HDR, it can rotate the image 90 degrees for tate, implements various scaling and de-interlacing methods, can actually downscale too if you want to display on a CRT. It seems to do a huge amount of stuff. But I too am a bit mystified as to the value of if, except that 4k CRT effects with zero latency might be cool. You can plug HDMI into it, so you could add CRT effects to a Switch game, for example. But there are no good videos of the CRT effects because people always say the video compression will spoil the effect, it seems it needs to be seen in person.
The main purpose of 4k is to draw the image to look like this
>paying $750 for more input lag
lol. lmao even i shiggydiggy, thats gonna be a hardpass
I use csync on my famicom so I can switch between rgb and composite in the scaler menu
There's more than enough examples out there how RGB is a inferior signal for everything up to and partioally including PS2.
People who get themselves a expensive PVM (never used outside of fringe cases) only to play with RGB (either modded in or via aftermarket cables) might as well emulate, because the visual quality they're chasing is the "emulation" quality where you look at raw assets without any of the analog post processing intact.
And with runahead they can get less lag on an LCD too rofl
>There's more than enough examples out there how RGB is a inferior signal for everything up to and partioally including PS2.
Arcades used RGB since the 80s. Hardly a fringe case.
>Arcades used RGB since the 80s. Hardly a fringe case.
Ah yes, who doesn't remember having their own arcade cabinet in the 90s?
We were just talking about home consoles you fricking Black person.
How does Daytona possibly using RGB (I dont know, I have not checked) change the fact that consumer devices not only used composite in 90% of use cases but the graphics also being designed for that pipeline?
>We were just talking about home consoles you fricking Black person.
I like arcade games.
>JAMMA-compliant arcade machines having already been standardised a certain way
Silly Jamma, they should have used RF as the standard but got scammed into using RGB!
>Muh arcades
And yet the sheer amount of dithering in arcade games shows a clear advantage in using composite IF it were available. The thing is, it WASN'T available due to the mass-produced JAMMA-compliant arcade machines having already been standardised a certain way—no dev b***hing to Logistics about how they must break rank with the production line to get bespoke components would have been taken seriously. No artist could explain to an exec why this was apparently more advantageous for business than recycling existing arcade hardware; the exec would tell them to stfu and find a way to market it as a good thing
Luckily you can just buy both or either of the cables and use whatever tickles your penis huh
No, the same morons will be arguing about which is objectively superior until Ganker shuts down or they are dead.
Why not just get a cheap/free crt tv with s-video inputs?
That's a great option but I want to play on my huge expensive tv and the output on this looks cool as shit
I wanna play on a huge ass OLED screen not a tiny tube with dying capacitors
>dying capacitors
The only tube you have to worry about is of the (You) variety.
Go back.
Do you realize consoles have capacitors too? And yes, they leak.
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>Why not just get a cheap/free crt tv with s-video inputs?
Does not exist anymore, at least in the US. And also cheap consumer CRTs are dim, blurry pieces of shit.
Also old games look surprisingly good on my OLED TV.
Leave your walkable city and you can pick up a CRT in any small town junk shop.
I literally live in a bumfrick town of like 5k people in the middle of the Ozarks. There are no CRTs left here. They got snatched up by the people who make their living scouring thrift shops for shit they can flip.
There isn't really a market for CRT yet.
Hoarding then must be the dumbest thing ever.
That being said - if crt were to become a market you'd see repro CRT getting manufactured in china in no time.
I honestly think you two never really looked for CRTs in your local area.
Unless you are living in some ultra urban inner city you gotta be able to locate some cheap CRT. If not - then you're probably in that part of the world where CRT are rare and sought after.
I got a huge crt from some farm recently. Farmer switched to LCD and wanted to get rid of it.
You gotta look out for that kinda stuff
Maybe a decade ago, but you could drive into buttfrick nowhere, Texas and struggle to find a decent working CRT because most people have completely trashed them.
The retrotink 4k is slightly less niche than previous retrotinks. I've seen some enthusiasm from video nerds and old computer enthusiasts for upscaling obscure formats. But that's also why it's so expensive: supporting literally every input outside of the weird one-off shit is expensive.
I hope it's better for old computer enthusiasts than the 5x because I've heard nothing but bad things about using it for anything besides the game consoles mike chi knows about.
>old games look surprisingly good on my OLED TV.
No, they don't. And they'd look better if you emulated.
This parrot has no idea what he's talking about, guarantee he's never seen a PVM in his life.
You can purchase a PC capture card for less than $100. Then install reshade over your video player. It has CRT-Royale now along with lots of other good /vr/ related shaders.
>lag
I've not done this personally but discussion about the subject on Ganker indicated it should be negligible.
capture cards dont add lag through the HDMI out (where you cant apply filters too), but adds lag if you play through the windows output (where you would have to do to use reshade)
>but adds lag if you play through the windows output (where you would have to do to use reshade)
According to discussions I've had with some of the Ganker nerds in the mpv threads the lag should not be any more than using a device like the Retrotink would add. About one frame.
The worry that Windows will "add lag" seems to be unfounded these days.
There are laggy capture cards and there are near-lagless capture cards. It's a whole subject to dive into. The same goes for the software configuration.
If you're going to use an LCD or OLED just spend the $800 on a nice emulation PC and learn to use RetroArch.
This won't stay $750 forever. There's competition from Pixel FX that will drive the price down. So just wait if you want one, or get the Pixel FX version when it releases.
The price could go up if the parts increase in cost. Didn't the 5x increase?
It did increase after the original batch sold out due to the FPGA chip that was first used no longer being produced.
The 4K scaler from Pixel FX undercutting this device by around $300 is going to eventually cause a price cut.
>4K scaler from Pixel FX
Hmm, looks good, but no S-Video at least initially.
Ok, so it's modular and you can customise the outputs to include S-Video.
The fpga in the tink costs about what the whole morph does off the shelf. The morph had its price out first, and who really knows, but I feel like it would already have forced the price cut on the tink
>This won't stay $750 forever. There's competition from Pixel FX that will drive the price down.
This isn't some consumer device being produced by a large corporation for the masses. I have no idea how much profit Mike is making on these things, there has to be SOME profit, but I assume it's not a large margin. This is a very niche device for a very niche group among a niche group. You don't waste time and money making products for such a group unless you have an actual personal investment in whatever that group is interested in, which in this case would be retro game video quality.
So I assume the profits do exist, but are not large. Coupled with it not being some mega-corp producing them and the price likely can't be cut down too low unless the components also go down in price considerably. Believe me, I would love for this thing to be considerably cheaper, but these kinds of home-made devices for niche groups rarely do since there is such a small market (How many people who even play retro games at all even CARE about the video signal instead of just plugging the hdmi cable from their Walmart special emulation box into their 4KLCD not even set to game mode and use a bluetooth controller?) and it's mostly filled by other fans of said market and not large corps that can pump them out for much cheaper prices.
Sadly, in this kind of market where it's very niche homebrew devices for a very niche group competition doesn't drop prices by much, they can't afford to drop them by much like a massive corp making a product for the masses can.
I want one, but it's way too expensive for me right now for what it is. Going to wait until the OSSC Pro is out too, no matter how many years that takes. Not really expecting the OSSC Pro to be any cheaper, in fact I expect it to cost more, but at least then so there will be more than one good 4K upscaler on the market and I can compare any differences before dedicating to something so expensive.
I just don't want to deal with CRTs anymore, there are less and less of them in the world every day and even the newest ones (which would suck for retro gaming anyway) are almost a decade old... to say nothing about their size and weight. Would be a lot easier just to try to make older systems work as best as they can on newer screens than trying to cling to 20-30+ year old large heavy screens.
... but HOLY FRICK is $750 expensive! Why do these even use a FPGA chip? Aren't those to emulate processors or other discrete ICs? Why would you need them to upscale video?
Ossc pro was just announced and is coming out around the same time. Bad news though it's 1440p unfortunately
>Bad news though it's 1440p unfortunately
That's disappointing to hear. There is no 4K version in the works anymore?
>It's EUR$290.00, so, it is cheaper. But it's already sold out.
... but it's not even out yet?
>... but it's not even out yet?
Yeah, it launched a few days ago and sold out almost immediately.
>Not really expecting the OSSC Pro to be any cheaper, in fact I expect it to cost more
It's EUR$290.00, so, it is cheaper. But it's already sold out.
I don't want to buy that shit but my GOD that's a sleek case design. That's some early 90s Sony/RCA shit right there.
I do not understand upscaling. Nor do I care to. How will this improve the gameplay of Earthworm Jim?
>https://www.retrotink.com/product-page/retrotink-4k
da fuq is this chink-shit looking piece of söyboy tech? I see it's got a shit ton of outputs but what makes it worth $750?
>but what makes it worth $750?
clout
More like clown.
don't have enough nostalgia or patience to be autistic enough to spend $750 just to make my old consoles look good. i bought some shit 20 dollar usb powered box on amazon and it literally just works if i ever need it, and i just emulate literally anything and everything on my Steam Deck now instead. frick all that shit. $750 was essentially what i paid for my entire gaming collection and i have over 400 cartridges laying around from over the years.
Is 4k for retro games even needed? I feel like 1080p+ scaling on 4k TVs is pretty damn good, so all you need to do is scale from 240p to 1080 and youre good to go. Is this mostly for 480i/p stuff that doesn't scale well?
The argument I see for 4k is improved CRT effects.
Fair. I never got into that.
>I feel like 1080p+ scaling on 4k TVs is pretty damn good.
The scaling is always with film content in mind, there’s nearly always a filter added to the overall image which reduces sharpness. Integer scaling is pretty rare on 4k sets so I’m glad these scalers are on the way.
the prices is looking good after that 1k warning. the marketing maneuver worked
I'll probably get one. it is infuriating that I need one, though. clean scaling and a wide variety of inputs should be something that every single monitor or tv should do out of the box
It turns out I was wrong, he paid less than $250 for the fpgas. That motherfricker gambled with the Chinese and won. Mostly by agreeing to buy a shit load of them from the third world
>RGB is inferior!
>Yet the official PSOne LCD screen connected through the RGB signals
And the PSOne LCD screen was inferior
I owned one, it was extremely washed out and had bad ghosting.
>names issues that have nothing to do with the input signal(s).
Because composite on an early LCD sounds wank
You have no idea.
Composite on a CRT is my favorite way to play vidya.
Composite on a flat panel is a hideous washed out blurry nightmare on a flat panel. I found this out in 2006 after connecting my N64 to my new tv. It is seriously unplayably ugly, especially if the game was 240p.
That screen is so small that a 240p image on it was like looking at an unscaled 320x240 window on a 27" 1080p screen, no shit you don't need to worry about any kind of blending or blurring.
EMULATE YOU STUPID MORONS
Your taste still sucks, this isn't gonna make the shitty games you play any better, /vr/.
will morons buy this instead of just using an old computer to emulate games
At least you get an integrated ash tray for your 750$.
I use RGB with PS2 games on my Sony PVM and composite with PS1 games. You DO know that any RGB capable TV/monitor will also accept composite?
Hey friends, I'm wondering if someone in this thread could help me understand what's going on with my setup. webm related is recorded with my phone off of my 4k TV, connected to a N64 via the RAD2X. See how the lines are distorted? It's particularly noticeable if you look at the bottom of the character's sideburn. Is this because the RAD2X is messing up its deinterlacing? Or is it because the TV is doing bad upscaling from 480p?
Ok, I fixed it. The TV wasn't in "Game Mode" (I had to turn game mode off and turn it back on again). I'm noticing some parts of the picture are flickering, it is noticeable if you look at the character's right hand. Is that because of the RAD2x or the N64 output or something else?
Forgot to post the fixed webm with flickering hand.
That's normal, the N64 does funky things with sprites.
Ah, that's good to know. Thanks!
Wtf is this thing? I have an OSSC, how is this beta construction better? Btw, I lift 3 PLAET.
think i'll be sticking with my $150 mini PC and a handful of shaders personally.
i will screencap soipogging redditors ordering this stupid shit though.