Roguelike or Roguelite? What do you prefer?
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Nothing Ever Happens Shirt $21.68 |
Roguelike or Roguelite? What do you prefer?
Roguelike or Roguelite? What do you prefer?
Nothing Ever Happens Shirt $21.68 |
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Nothing Ever Happens Shirt $21.68 |
Roguelites are trash, and "Roguelikes" are almost always poorly disguised Roguelites
I just call them all roguelikes
nobody but autists online actually care to correct you
this
the gays that go "akshually dats not a roguelike dats a roguelite"
Black person WHO FRICKING ASKED? And 99% of the time these gays go on some tangent about how it has to be like rogue, hence roguelike, while never playing rogue once in their life
>Complains about roguelike fans complaining about the term being misused
>ONLY mentions Rogue and no other game, not even major well known classic roguelikes
I'm seeing a pattern...
Why is mislabeling games so important to you? Why is it so critical that a game which is obviously not anything like a traditional roguelike MUST be called a roguelike? What do you get out of that? What do you lose from labeling it something different?
I will call them all roguelikes while you continue to post paragraphs correcting me which I will not read
SNEED
t. does moronic shit like tagging shooters as RPG's
>Payday 3
>Shoot 'em up
kek
morons on steam not knowing what genres are doesn't mean they are correct
payday 3 is no where near a shmup and just like having roguelites have a roguelike tag way down doesn't make them roguelikes.
every game where your character has legs is a walking simulator
I know, I'm just laughing at the people who were stupid enough to think Payday 3 is a shmup.
because if someone asks for a roguelike as in games like rogue, i'm not gonna give them binding of isaac. the same can be said vice versa if someone asks for a roguelite im not gonna give them caves of qud. it's moronic for them to be under the same name. why do you fricking homosexual morons find this concept so hard to understand, genres are meant to distinguish media from one another.
because I've never played rogue and I can't be fricked to
Genres are supposed to be useful generalizations. We don‘t need a special term for every random subgenre of a subgenre. Roguelike has the useful meaning of random generation and permadeath.
This is like the people that want to call valorant a new genre when its just a csgo clone with some hero shooter elements. Genres become pointless if they just refer to a single game cause you can just use the name of that game or clone.
>Roguelike has the useful meaning of random generation and permadeath.
You can see people in this very thread complaining that roguelite is a useless genre because it's so broad. Roguelike however has been successfully used for decades because it's a useful generalization.
Why come in and ruin something that has been working as intended for years?
you know the answer
they are little b***hes who want to seem like they play the "hardcore" games
too bad any moron can play roguelikes, me included
if you want to play roguelikes then fricking play them, otherwise frick off and stop using our word
>das our word
i get what you're saying but you're coming off as a happy neighborhood urban youth, it's not about playing "hardcore" games, it's about playing a specific genre that has become way too broad because as people said in this thread the tag sells
that is partial reason for the orthodox zeal autism that has become a part of the genre label, if everybody and their mother wouldn't want that tag on their indie game and if devs weren't dishonest douchegays who had to make a new sub genre just to cash in we wouldn't be having this conversation
>they are little b***hes who want to seem like they play the "hardcore" games
Fricking irony.
>You can see people in this very thread complaining that roguelite is a useless genre because it's so broad.
And they're morons.
Deus Ex plays like a shooter, Final Fantasy has turn-based combat, they're both considered RPGs. No one gives a shit. And it doesn't make the genre label useless.
This, frick anyone who insists on using the word "roguelite" for anything.
People used to call games in first person where you shot things "DOOM clones"
>why yes, I can't tell difference between a dog and a cat because they're all mammals so anyone who points out the differences must be an autist
fricking moron
>cute dog
why is it that whenever I point out that something is not actually a roguelike to someone they melt down?
are you one of those people who get incredibly upset and start screeching that it doesn't matter after its said?
you sound like one of them.
They want to be hardcore but their mom won't let them.
>calls soccer football
BASED BASED BASED
>Look up football games
>All you find are hand egg games
Uh... Sakurai-san has already laid down the word on this question. The question has been tabled. Move on.
regardless of which meaning of "tabled" your country uses you're using it wrong here
Fuc kyou're rig
based
Imagine giving a shit about the opinion of boomers that think looking at ASCII is fun.
moronic AND gay
Subhumans like this is why the current Steam shmup sale is 80% Survivorslop
I like to call them "Swarm Survivors", but i doubt that will catch on
I just call them "mobile tower defense."
Frick you, moron, you make it a nightmare to hunt for real roguelikes.
none of the vidya 'genre' names have meant anything in literal decades
Permadeath is the cuckoldry if video games
change my mind
It's a litmus test for a good rpg. If the game isn't fun and varied enough for you to pick it up again from the beginning after wiping 20 hours in it's a bad game.
>It's a litmus test for a good rpg
No, it's a litmus test for moronic ADHD homosexuals with abysmal taste. The genre is oversaturated and almost none of it is actually good. The litmus test for a good RPG is something that gives you a sense of progression, purpose, and lets you play a fricking role. Roguelikes (frick you, I'm lumping it into one category, suck my dick) are incapable of providing a good, consistent experience by their very nature because how your run plays is determined entirely by the luck of the draw. You morons use terms like "builds" and "permanent progression" as if unlocking the Legendary wienerring means anything when all unlocking it does is give it a random chance to appear in the dungeon.
It's the genre of choice for indie developers who don't want to expend effort creating an actual, coherent game. Why bother creating a game with intent when you can just create a set of rules to automatically generate all the content. You don't have to bother with "balancing" because players can just restart until they get the "correct" combination of things to snap the run over their throbbing mile-long wiener.
Sounds like you suck at videogames in general.
I do NOT accept your concession. Roguelikes are fricking trash, refute the fricking premise.
I play fighting games and am good at them, so I'm better than 99% of Ganker and certainly better than everyone in this thread. A god, even.
>I am going to justify my criticisms of qualities that don't apply to the genre I'm talking about by specifically expanding the definition of that genre to include other games which do have said qualities
No offense meant, but you sound like the kind of person who gets incredibly buttblasted about losing a couple of times and refuses to actually learn anything from it, roguelikes (actual roguelikes, not roguelites) are nowhere as RNG heavy as you try to pretend, they do demand you to actually learn their intricacies though, unlikes CRPGs which are basically just adventure games with very minor branching.
Yes, you can get fricked by a bad dice roll even when you got everything right sometimes, but it's incredibly rare and it's no different from any other RPG where you also get a bad roll just because sometimes.
Roguelikes are the purest RPG genre in vidya whether you like it or not, everything else is an inferior experience.
>Top players basically just run away from enemy mobs
That's Infra Arcana's main gimmick, I don't like it either but it is working as intended, you're not really supposed to fight unless it's absolutely necessary.
the game never tells you this
True, but you're supposed to figure it out pretty quickly given the sanity mechanics.
You CAN fight your way through the dungeon if you want, but it's way tougher than simply playing around stealth and requires quite a few deaths to learn how to play around the various enemies, I really don't like it myself but that's the way the game is.
Not true, depends on the metaprogression.
If it's stuff like One Way Heroics where you have to grind to unlock shit like equipment or even classes yeah, that's gay and doesn't belong in the genre, but there's more clever forms of metaprogression like Zorbus' ascension mechanics or ADOM unlocking some minor new stuff to do.
>That's Infra Arcana's main gimmick, I don't like it either but it is working as intended, you're not really supposed to fight unless it's absolutely necessary.
Which basically invalidates over half of the options at the start and buffs stealth builds to god hood. I really want to like this game too, as I really enjoyed it despite not liking the core gameplay loop lol. Everything else was soulful to me. But as it stands "the main gimmick" seems to be killing both gameplay complexity and build variety.
>It's the genre of choice for indie developers who don't want to expend effort creating an actual, coherent game. Why bother creating a game with intent when you can just create a set of rules to automatically generate all the content. You don't have to bother with "balancing"
that's not true. the effort goes into balancing the game to make most attempts viable, instead of the effort going into a more linear but more structured game. And there are roguelikes where there are static locations and story elements on top of procedurally generated elements
>rouglike
>effort goes into balancing the game
lmao.
more complex and balanced systems than most games at least
you can find more balanced games but they tend to have less complex systems
>litmus test
>20 hours in
Well put
It’s just mixing the Arcade experience with an RPG
It’s good for making more fast paced and technical RPG games without the slow plodding and overbearing storylines of some others.
I personally like them because I simply can’t get super invested in plot heavy games anymore and jus want something where I can learn the mechanics and just pick up and play whenever I like.
Roguelites are fun too because they are often a lot lighter than true roguelikes like Brogue, depends on the game though, sometimes devs stretch the “roguelike” premise pretty thin.
yeah, roguelikes are to rpgs what mobas are to rts games.
Multiplayer base destruction is the true metaphorical vidya cuckoldry
>slave away building some shit
>chang cho and zhang all teleport in and nuke everything
Spelunky 2 is the best roguelike.
I like both, but they need a more significant separation.
Ancient Domains of Mystery and 20XX are two completely different types of games, but people will try to say they're both 'roguelikes'.
that screenshot gave me PTSD for tales of majeyal or whatever it was called
LMAO i fricking love tome.
yeah it was cool, getting to the second continent? was wild because you find out the orcs are actually just escaped slaves trying to get revenge or something
That's why you acknowledge the concept of hybrids. That something like Spelunky is most accurately described as a platformer roguelike. It's not different to how RPGs in general can play wildly differently from each other since some can be turn based and some can be shooters or whatever.
>bro you gotta play my turnbased realtime strategy game!
spelunky is not a roguelike in literally any fricking way, frick off zoomie
>teh concept of hybrids
THAT'S CALLED A ROGUELITE YOU STUPID Black person. TAKING A COUPLE MINOR ELEMENTS FROM A ROGUELIKE (RANDOM GENERATION, PERMADEATH, ETC.) AND PUTTING THEM INTO LITERALLY ANY OTHER GENRE OF GAME = ROGUELITE
Black person!!!!!
No, spelunky is a 2d platformer with roguelike elements.
'Roguelite' is defined as in
But spelunky has permanent upgrades that you unlock, and persist between runs. Surely that makes it a rogue lite by this definition?
Spelunky has side challenges and cosmetic skins to unlock, none of which have any effect on the main game.
Shortcut man. He's a permanent unlock that persists between runs.
Honestly I forgot about him.
Practically shooting yourself in the foot using them, though.
And? Still makes the game a roguelite by that definition.
There's a world of difference between unlocking an alternate starting point that unquestionably gimps your score, and getting to pump up your character's stats for all future runs.
>There's a difference between permanent upgrades and permanent upgrades
It's a roguelite by that definition. Sorry.
>But spelunky has permanent upgrades that you unlock, and persist between runs
those are just shortcuts
>adom
Roguelike
>20XX
Roguelite
Both are slop.
Devs looking to make a game similar to Rogue need to play Rogue for 3 months minimum to come to a true understanding of what makes it what it is.
Rogue is mid
Rogue-Clone
>play roguelite
>unlock all meta progression upgrades
>immediately lose interest
>play roguelike
>never get bored
Not all roguelites have permanent upgrades or unlockables.
Isn't that the only thing differentiating the two?
>berlin interpretation
Roguelite is born out of attempting to appease the autists that b***hed about roguelikes being referred to gets that aren't turn-based or have tilesets or whatever. You only need to see how they'll b***h even about the term roguelite to see they really don't deserve being appeased to.
idk the terms but i prefer ones that are randomly generated but you keep upgrading your profile to get further and further
unfortunately makes the starting game a bit annoying because you'll die a lot unless ur skilled and don't choke every other dodge or whatever mechanics
That's just another kind of roguelite. Roguelite is a very broad term that can be used to describe almost anything with procedurally generated "runs" and perma-death. Roguelike specifically applies to games that are like Rogue. That's why people insist on keeping the terms separate. We want to prevent the term roguelike from getting diluted like "roguelite" already is.
fair enough, i hate titles because of the ambiguity that people push with
>Roguelike specifically applies to games that are like Rogue.
Rogue had procedurally generated "runs" and perma-death, by definition having those things makes a game like Rogue.
You chose a dumb term to gatekeep.
mfw mario is a roguelike
moron
if its not top down and turn based on a grid its not "like rogue"
Mario had procedurally generated "runs" and perma-death?
nta but Roguelikes are top down simulturns where you directly control one unit at a time
If it was proc gen+perma death a lot of arcade games would qualify
it has permadeath if you run out of lives
you nix turn based, a grid, simultaneous turns etc from the definition, why keep procedural generation?
Because it's the most defining aspect of the genre?
Also it actually isn't permadeath is there isn't random generation. What makes it permadeath is precisely that you only have one shot at a given scenario which is enabled through the random generation.
>Because it's the most defining aspect of the genre?
no its not moron
turn based on a grid is
When people talk about how great roguelikes are they aren't talking about the grid-systems.
eh this part is debatable, like i would say diablo 2 hardcore is basically just a roguelike in every conceivable way but without the grid system/turnbased.
because you are a moron
you do if you have actually played a real roguelike
Talk about what makes the roguelike genre great then.
tactical gameplay and depth of its systems is why I like them
So nothing to do with grid systems then.
>tactical gameplay
A game can be tactical without a grid system.
This is a roguelike
roguelikes are rpgs and or have rpg elements with how you acquire gear for your character
Do I really need to explain every mechanic? It has those two things, among other things. The main thing that sets roguelikes apart is the grid-based turn-based movement with almost instantaneous turns. Just play some and you'll understand.
Do I need to explain the definition of "like"? If something shares traits with something else it is by definition like that thing.
>Skyrim is a first person shooter
>Uh what's the problem? It's in first person and you shoot things
If you play exclusively with a bow or spells then yes it literally is.
If somebody played CoD and said "hey give me more games like this" you wouldn't tell them go play Skyrim
Me I play them
Depends, when you look are Spelunky, would you settle for it being called a platformer roguelike, or insist it be called just a platformer? Because the former does give you more helpful information about what to expect in the game. Even calling it a platformer roguelite is redundant because you already know from it being a platformer hybrid that it isn't going to be a traditional roguelike.
Meant for
It's a Platformer Roguelite
>you already know from it being a platformer hybrid that it isn't going to be a traditional roguelike
True but then you're enabling Roguelike erasure so we have to gatekeep the term.
It would be weird however if they specifically meant arcade-y deathmatch shooters and got mad at you when you recommended them battlefield
But what If I recommended something like heretic or hexen? Like skyrim they have a fantasy theming. Would they suddenly not count as shooters because the person is clearly expecting something with a military theme?
Do you think the Codgay would actually like them or not?
Mechanics vs thematics. COD and Hexen have relatively similar mechanics, Skyrim and Hexen have relatively similar thematics. Relating that difference back to the thread, none of the arguments regarding roguelikeliteesques are about thematics.
They have similar mechanics as well. They're both first person, have combat, do let you shoot things...Hell hexen even has melee like Skyrim.
I used 'relatively' for a reason. As a holistic matter, COD's mechanics are closer to Hexen than they are to Skyrim. If you feel like arguing that, then I'm not bothering, since that way leads to homosexualry regarding how e.g. SMB1 is actually a third-person shooter because the fire flower provides shooting elements.
I enjoy both of them. Good traditional roguelikes are few and far between, but are some of the most enjoyable games for me
How good a roguelite is depends on the gameplay. They tend to be action games, so it really depends on how fun the gameplay is. With roguelikes, it's more about builds
Please play Demon it's such a cool fricking game and I have nobody to talk about it with
Qrd? I play tome4 and infra arcana mostly
It's like SMT but fusing is different and negotiation with demons isn't as random. Also not all demons are recruited with talking, some you have to ex kill a number of enemies while they fight with you, protect them from a horde, kill them within X turns etc etc.
Since resources are hard limited the name of the game is figuring out how to make your demons and yourself strong in the most efficient way possible since everything has a credit cost; do you want to spend to copy that demon's new move to yourself so you can use it as tactically as possible? Or do you want to copy it to another demon for half the price and focus on making your monsters stronger. Or you can also fuse your demons to give one's modifier to another along with two random moves from that modifier, letting you unlock higher level moves earlier in the game at the cost of being semi-random which ones you get.
Never heard of a roguelike like it, sounds unique and big brained
> A Monster Collection Roguelike
Sounds interesting. I just downloaded it.
I'll try it out, seems like it has potential
I recommend rift wizard if you haven't tried it yet. It's simple but a lot of replayability
i found rift wizard too boardgamey. Required calculations n sheeyit to get far.
Enjoyed it for a few hours tho
They are the same shit and both suck.
I still don’t understand the differnece
Play NetHack then play an Action game of your choice, take note how they function completely differently from each other.
Not all roguelites are action roguelites. FTL, Into the Breach, and Slay the Spire are all roguelites too, even though they have basically nothing in common. Most genres are basically meaningless now.
>Look up "roguelike" on Steam
>Literally none of the games have anything in common
I fricking hate the bastardization of roguelike so much. It's become a meaningless marketing word.
They don't have permadeath and random generation in common?
>permadeath
With meta progression is it really? Like its not perma anything, its the literal progression to do runs.
>random generation
And most indies can't even pull that off, they can't even achieve random generation standards of 20 years ago. Actually scratch that, given that Rogue had better both of them then its standards 40 years ago
Meta progression isn't a defining element of roguelites.
This
PMD has meta progression and is still a Roguelike, same for Elona+
>Is Elona+ a rouglike?
Yes Patrick, Roguelikes do not actually require permadeath to be Roguelikes.
Pokemon Mystery Dungeon is a Roguelike too.
Is Toejam and Earl and Roguelike?
Nta. I think it would be a rougelite do to being realtime and not turn based
both are terrible descriptors as the games tagged with them bare very little resemblance to the title that named the genre
Every traditional roguelike tried bases its difficulty on knowing all the game's mechanisms, this knowledge hidden behind trial and error of countless failed runs by design. Once you possess the knowledge, the gameplay isn't really that engaging.
On the other hand I have played roguelites that still challenge your skill or strategic thinking even after you learn everything there is to know about them.
>On the other hand I have played roguelites that still challenge your skill or strategic thinking even after you learn everything there is to know about them.
Examples?
Slay the Spire
I call them roleplaying games
If you don't like how roguelike is misused, get better term. Actually, get better term, anyway. You're in same moronic boat as undervanias.
Maybe you should get a better term instead of piggybacking off of roguelikes. Anyway, people are already calling them "traditional roguelikes" or "classic roguelikes" to avoid the inevitable confusion.
>to avoid the inevitable confusion.
until store fronts actually enforce their genre tags this won't happen.
Necrodancer is so good. But it's too fricking hard. I spent over 2 hours just trying to get past the first fricking world as the last story character, the granmother. I've never been so humiliated.
She is way too much of a difficulty spike.
It's ridiculous. I beat all the souls bosses on my first try, I play monster hunter to relax, I've even beaten SHMUPS, and then this silly goofy game called necrodancer comes along and fricks my shit up like I was 3 years old again dying in the chemical plant zone.
Which is best? I only played DCSS but I did get a 15 rune mummy win.
so are roguelikes the open world survival crafting games of the '20s? there's so many now i cant even fricking count
Dungeon Crawl: Stone soup is still a better roguelike than most currently popular roguelikes.
I wouldn't know, I only ever play DCSS. It's a big game and it keeps changing over time so I never really needed anything else.
It's a pointless distinction because nobody actually plays true roguelikes anymore, as in games based on rogue's """""""gameplay"""""""
There are plenty of modern roguelikes thoughalbeit, so the distinction is useful. If someone is looking for something "like Dungeons of Dredmor", it would be moronic to tell them to play Enter the Gungeon.
Who the frick here has actually played a roguelike or even just rogue? The entire genre is basically roguelites. Very few of them are shit like Dungeons of Dredmore or Beneath Apple Manor
I've played TOME, Cogmind, ADOM, DCSS, Caves of Qud, CDDA, and more. There are a ton good ones if you actually look for them.
Roguelike is a genre. Roguelite is a sub genre. Both are stupid fricking names
Correct posts.
Rouge-light
still waiting for that elin alpha...
>in another universe Noa jumped ship from Unity and started over AGAIN
please no, i'm putting my full faith in rusty to keep noa on track this time around, he seems just as eager for this game to be done just as everyone else waiting for it.
I want to make a roguelike porn game that has not garbage gameplay but that's a niche on a niche and I'd never make money off of the amount of time it'd take to code everything.
Developers in 1970: Dude let's just make 4 levels and make them really hard so the player has to replay them over and over again.
Developers in 1990: Let's put the effort in, make like 100 levels so even if the player beats them all on his frist try he'll get a full adventure out of it.
Developers in 2020: Dude let's just make 4 levels and make them really hard so the player has to replay them over and over again.
Less content but harder is better.
arguing roguelike vs roguelite is pure reddithomosexualry
only fricking redditors give this much of a shit about names to this degree
EVERY GAME IS A ROGUELIKE IF YOU JUST TURN THE GAME OFF WHEN YOU DIE AND YOU DON'T KNOW THE LEVEL DESIGN INSIDE OUT
This might be autistic but I often play every game without trying to die
I actually beat ME2 on its entirety without dying on Insanity, but died to Marauder Shields at the end of ME3
i prefer "turd with lazy randomization and procedural generation to disguise how shallow the rest of the mechanics truly are"
>really liked doom roguelike
>devs got hit with a C&D because they were planning to try to sell it or some shit
>now an awkward not-doom version of Jupiter Sin or whatever the frick it's called is up there and no one remembers it exists
Actual roguelikes are difficult and have a high skill ceiling, which makes the genre fundamentally unapproachable to shitters. This is why they fight so hard to dilute the meaning of the genre, so they can perpetuate the idea that the pussy casual games they play are actually difficult because they're called roguelikes. Notice this trend started around the same time people became obsessed with the idea of Dark Souls being the hardest game ever made.
How the frick are roguelikes difficult? You learn the keybinds, you learn what mechanics there are and typical scenarios you encounter in the game world and then the game is easy. Often it‘s about finding out a way to do a lot of damage, so you can quickly kill whatever monsters standing near your tile.
But all of that is part of the exploration process.
I'm going to guess the first roguelike that comes to mind for you when you hear the term is DCSS
A lot of roguelike difficulty comes from RNG factors that people keep gambling on instead of ignoring if it keeps killing them.
>Make offering to blood god
>Die 1-3 times because blood god kills you as a joke
>Decide to never try again and get further in the game instead
Vs
>Find blood god altar
>Die to it 99 times because on the 100th time you get +1 all stats
>Max stats are like 1000
>THIS GAME IS FRICKING BULL SHIT TOO HARD
You've gotta know what to do.
I mean it is one of the hardest roguelikes.
I've done some extremely stupid shit just to get a good start. Rolling again is really addictive.
>DCSS is one of the hardest roguelikes
Good fricking lord, have some shame
you can't be serious you Black person, people consistently ascend in crawl with random characters
like for many forms of time on a streak
dcss is piss eazy which is why it's also baby's first
>Often it‘s about finding out a way to do a lot of damage
That's only one pillar to the more critical modus operandi: not dying like a 'tard
>How the frick are roguelikes difficult?
you get really fricking bored and don't pay close enough attention when something that'll 100% kill you without the right solution spawns
lol
lmao even
>gets a random good item at the start of the game and steamrolls the rest of the run
>"""skill""""
LMAO
There is actually a text-based erotic roguelite. You always start a new character, when you know what happens.
Call me when there's a mode for non-sick fricks.
What's it called?
Rapening of Rogues
That tittle ain't helpin me lmao, thanks regardless
Corruption of Champions
https://www.fenoxo.com/play-games/
it has a lot of gay and furry stuff
Corruption of Champions is not a rouguelite. It's a scripted visual novel that imitate gameplay. Named characters will always same shit. Pure rougelite coomer experience will be something like Degrees of Lewdity or Lilith Throne
And the name is?
every roguelite is bad except for binding of isaac and noita, those 2 games are quite literally the only games that actually embrace the variance and replayability that the genre is suppose to have, everything else just wants you to grind permanent stat upgrades to see number go up on your next run.
You haven't played enough then
i almost play this genre exclusively, the only good ones are isaac, noita, slay the spire and FTL. but the only ones that have actually perfected the loops are noita and isaac.
I do think its pretty funny how mad people are about the popularity of roguelites as a genre when the very first popular computer games were like half roguelikes
Dead genres made by college nerds are the most interesting in video games, like Text Adventures.
I remember when the first kindle tablet came out and the store was full of text adventures. There was one with a zombie dinosaur that I loved to play and was impossible to beat lol
this is the only roguelike I actually enjoy
Because it's the only one you've played? If it's because your zoomer eyes can't handle the bad graphics, try Dungeons of Dreadmor. It's one of the most accessible ones that's actually good.
Ive played isaac, gungeon, ror1 + 2, noita, slay the spire, wizard of legend. Probably a few more but I forget
Those are all roguelites, not roguelikes.
>"I love roguelikes!"
>doesn't list a single roguelike
no, you don't.
It used to be my jam, until I discovered Pathos.
[Spoiler]Pathos used to be my jam until I discovered Gnollhack[/spoiler]
>Dogshit art
>Dogshit concept
>Mediocre gameplay
>It's still really good
Even bad roguelikes are fun.
new experiences due to even just the smallest changes are fun. The early developers knew this.
sexxxo with the store goblina
I loved the prototype with it's pixel style. I didn't pick this up even when on steep discount.
Roguelites are the dubstep to roguelike's Drum & Bass, inferior in nearly every way.
Besides Spelunky, only good roguelite.
I hate Infra Arcana. This game is punishingly hard and nearly impossible to "play". Top players basically just run away from enemy mobs
Its got the best atmosphere of any roguelike and the shotgun sound effects are top notch
I haven't played it that much but it didn't seem too hard if you pick your fights. I got to the 10th floor on one of my first tries
Qud is pretty hard until you have a good idea of what you're up against and how to build for it
it's futile to try and stop morons from making a genre label absolutely useless. zoomers and millennials will take personal offense to you trying to correct them and will take the roguelike vs roguelike argument as something political instead of just trying to preserve the functionality of a genre label for search purposes.
roguelike
>permadeath
>randomized runs
roguelite
>permadeath
>randomized runs
>can unlock stuff between runs
AIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Black personMAN SAVE ME THE HECKING ZOOMERINOS AND MILLENIALERINOS ARE RUINING THIS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT GENRE DISTINCTION AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
moron
so if someone gave you cdda when you asked for a roguelike you wouldn't immediately be shut off by it? cause i hardly believe that was the type of game you were asking for.
you're wrong you dumb Black person brain moron
roguelite isn't even a genre definition. its a marketing term to cater to hair brained morons like you
>can unlock stuff between runs
>AIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Black personMAN SAVE ME THE HECKING ZOOMERINOS AND MILLENIALERINOS ARE RUINING THIS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT GENRE
this but unironically, metaprogression is fricking GAY and betrays the spirit of the genre
Definition so moronic over 99% of what you call Roguelike is actually Roguelite and you don't actually know a single Roguelike
You missed the 1 difference that will decide 95% of all choices as to which a game belongs in
roguelike
>Turn based like Rogue
Roguelite
>Not turn based
These definitions are incorrect.
even the 'traditional roguelike' label on steam is borked now. You used to be able to find only traditional roguelikes there, but now it's everything under the sun. it's fricking annoying
The more annoying thing is that roguelike SHOULD describe a game that has rogue-like mechanics, but not exactly rogue while roguelite should absolutely describe a game that is basically just rogue except not.
If someone showed me a game and said it was "like warcraft" then I would assume it was any RTS, like starcraft. If someone said it was "warcraft lite", I would absolutely expect a fantasy rts with hero units.
this is a level of autism you shouldnt even be on right now, people don't even want to distinguish the 2, should wait for that happen first.
>friend recommends me an fps
>mfw its a battlefieldlite instead of a codlike
it's more like
>friend recommends me an fps
>it's a tps
I genuinely enjoy co-op roguelikes or roguelites as long as there isn't a time gate that forces you to rush (Risk of Rain. I like it solo, I hate playing with other people.). I just wish any of them were actually good and that any of my friends had any interest in any of the good ones. My friends only play shit games.
Nioh is my favorite diabe-girlke
LoL is my favorite RTS
Factorio is my favorite city builder
Sekiro is my favorite beat 'em up
Vampire Survivors is my favorite shoot 'em up
Morrowind is my favorite point and click adventure
Ganker is my favorite MMORPG
>Ganker is my favorite MMORPG
Eh.
This one's true.
>Nioh is my favorite diabe-girlke
this one is kinda true, souls in general has a lot in common with diablo and other arpgs
This is my favorite Scooby Doo: Night of 100 Frights-like
Morrowind is my favorite imsim.
I think you can define games by what you as the player are responsible for. If you're playing an rpg, you shouldnt have to worry about your reflexes. Winning and losing come down to clever use of items and systems. The whole thing is mental.
Morrowind might be the best immersive sim ever made, actually.
both are shit
both are ways to cover up shitting/boring design
roguelite is a 「format」not a genre, similar to how arcade is not a genre
Like if I describe daytona's genre, I don't call it an arcade game and leave it at that, it's an arcade racing game
If I describe Isaac, I don't call it a rougelite and leave it at that, it's a rougelite twinstick shooter
Imagine debating the difference between a roguelike and a roguelite when most normies hate both anyway.
Normies love roguelites, but we shouldn't give a shit what normies think anyway.
No they like HADES, which only HAPPENS to be a roguelike. If it were any other flavour they'd love it anyway.
>No they like HADES, which only HAPPENS to be a roguelike
*lite
Same thing
Hades is such a trash game holy shit
No idea, I can hardly tell the difference from the games I play that are "rogues" anyway. Rogue, like platformers, have became a thing whose term is so generically loosely defined that a lot of games can easily fall under it.
The fact that even on this thread, people can't even find that dividing line between roguelike and roguelite is proof enough that it's just another generic genre for games.
>roguelike
"Like Rogue." DCSS, Sil, NetHack, ADOM, Cogmind etc, there's a shitload of them and some of them are even good. If you like games that are like Rogue you will probably like Roguelikes. If it isn't so much like Rogue that just by saying "It's like Rogue" gives you a useful amount of insight into what it is and whether you will enjoy it or not, it's not a Roguelike.
>Roguelite
Just the dev saying "Well yeah, this is nothing like Rogue in any way, but roguelike is a very valuable marketing tag so we're going to use it anyway and then also add the 'lite' to acknowledge that"
>Just the dev saying "Well yeah, this is nothing like Rogue in any way, but roguelike is a very valuable marketing tag so we're going to use it anyway and then also add the 'lite' to acknowledge that"
rougelike has come to mean a procedurally generated or in someway randomized game built around the unique stakes of permadeath/oneshotting. It uses rogue in its title because that format is derived from rogue.
>roguelike has come to mean a lazily-designed game built around fake difficulty because the developer wasn't capable of making a real game with a genuine challenge
actual roguelikes > actual roguelites > 'roguelike' roguelites
most based opinion in this thread, FRICK permanent stat upgrades
>'roguelike' roguelites
what's an example of this?
tangledeep?
>hmm my game is kind of shit
>make the player intermittently select one of three random upgrades
>don't balance the game
And that's how you turn a 4 hour piece of shit into a 200 hour timesink for impulsive morons
Says the runescape player
what's a good roguelike for beginners
Only experience I've got is with Brogue and I've beat it a few times
Shattered Pixel Dungeon and Dungeons of Dreadmor if you want accessible graphics. Cogmind is good to start with too since it's very streamlined and combat-focused. Since you've played Brogue, the graphics shouldn't be a problem.
IVAN. You will learn the importance of resistances and RNG management/exploitation after getting kicked in the balls over and over again.
Tales of MajEyal is the most beginner friendly and one of the best in the genre
jupiter hell is pretty simple and has difficulty options
rift wizard is easy with the right build. there's a ton of spells and enemies, but the actual gameplay is pretty simple
this arguement is just another circle jerk about trying to appear more cultured and intelligent than normalgays
hot take inbound
i could not care less about the lite/like distinction because most people draw the border along the "grid-based turn-based dungeon" stuff, but that's fricking dumb. it's immediately obvious upon looking at the game whether it's lite or like when that's the primary criteria.
the one i care about is the fricking meta-progression. spelunky and rogue legacy being in the same genre according to "lite/like" is a fricking crime because in one of them there's a static challenge that you either overcome or fail, and in the other you grind your ass off killing goombas until you get enough gold to steamroll the whole game.
the genre distinction should clue in the consumer to something that isn't immediately obvious, like whether a game has a refined, static challenge level or instead it's a grindy timewaster where the permadeath element is only there to disrespect the player.
anyway, i will never understand people who prefer meta-progression in these games.
yeah but the same can be said about isaac and rogue legacy, one unlocks items by just completing the game's various final bosses, the other is done through grinding. also genres are meant for discussion, obviously people can judge things by sight already.
sure, something like isaac is in-between if you consider the unlockable content and characters to be "side-grades" rather than "20% more damage", but that's just what i mean. you can never tell on any "indie roguelike" store page what flavor of buttfrickery the metaprogression will inflict on you.
>Spelunky, FTL, Noita
>unlocks are either cosmetic or to ease you into mechanics, with 99% of them being sidegrades or niche strategy enablers
fine
>Hades, Gunfire Reborn, Rogue Legacy
>unlocks are almost purely vertical stat upgrades meant to time-gate you from completing the game too quickly
have a nice day
yeah this
unlocks should either be tutorialization so slowly explain the mechanics and make it easier to get into, cosmetic, or just some mix or tutorialization and "more stuff" such as unlocking new classes that aren't necessarily better but just different
unlocking direct power upgrades, even if thats through things like "more drops" or unlocking new drops that are better than the original stuff available is just fricking horse shit
I like meta progression when it unlocks more stuff, not necessarily better stuff.
>the one i care about is the fricking meta-progression
I don't know how rogue likes/lites can be such a popular genre while also having so many devs completely miss the entire fricking point of them. I want my first and hundredth runs to have equal chances at a god run, with the only difference being the skill and knowledge I've gained from playing. Giving out bullshit upgrades that persist between runs is entirely anathema to what makes these games actually fun to git gud at.
quite literally blame rogue legacy for this and insisting its a roguelite and coining the term. Spelunky was happy not calling it self anything but a platformer until rogue legacy came along and shit up this whole thing.
>it's immediately obvious upon looking at the game whether it's lite or like when that's the primary criteria.
That's not the problem you moron, it's so you don't have to sift through shit the find the genre you're actually looking for.
Love me Tome4
Love goin cornac doomed
Best class best race best audio
Prod will be RAD of course with ADEPT
this never a real problem because anyone who is bamboozled by a genre tag and not actually just looking at a screenshot of the gameplay is an uber moron
you never know if the person hating roguelikes next to you is actually a huge fan of starfield
>make a third person shooter
>call it an FPS
>everyone starts calling it an FPS
>how is it an FPS if it's not first person?
>omg who cares you autist
>search for "FPS"
>nothing but third person shooters show up
this would make sense if the genre was called "shooter" but roguelike still is accurate. A game's mechanics is like rogue. It's not inaccurate no matter how you want to spin it.
the only thing that binding of isaac and rogue have in common is permadeath
yeah... thats the roguelike part. Its like RPG, it's vague enough to be accurate to anything. Its how people use it that gives the definition legitimacy.
>game has doors
>just like Rogue, that makes it a roguelike
if you took Rogue and removed permadeath, it would still be a roguelike as it is sufficiently like Rogue
thats the problem with words, not people
I could force any roguelike autist to play a roguelite for 10 minutes and they wouldnt be able to tell the difference between the two. If I did the same for a TPS vs FPS you would tell within 2 seconds.
youre moronic
If you really believe that, then you don't know what the terms mean.
if I forced you to play hades for 1 singular run and never told you it was a roguelite you would not be able to distinguish it from a roguelike
??????????? you have to be trolling right, you think hades and caves of qud play anything remotely alike or provide the same type of experience?
do you really have trouble telling these two games apart?
I guess that would explain some things
elaborate because I legitimately can't take that claim seriously
Yeah man I literally cannot tell the difference between DCSS and Rogue Legacy. They’re like the same game
please circle the parts of this image that indicate which of these games has a static metaprogression currency
neither of these a roguelikes.
>dcss kimchi
>win 15 rune wight weapon master of gozag
>decide to frick around
>garg collector of makhleb
>spawn with singing sword
>stomp everything in seconds
>every unique gets tabbed
>every single one
>mennas and tiamat are the only ones who last longer than ten turns
>mfw this weapon
HOW the frick has this not been removed from mainline. HOW. It's fricking absurd bullshit. I tabbed every panlord on the orb run because I was beyond giving a shit. I guess it's balanced because it's "only" +7, but goddamn.
I prefer "indie garbage"
You guys just want to argue for the sake of arguing.
Why?
I find the degradation of the term 'roguelike' to be interesting. Roguelikes are an extreme niche with a very niche fanbase, but practically had their genre termed hijacked by a development trend in the indie scene. I like seeing a bit of the circumstances and reasoning that could cause such a strongly defined genre to lose part of its identity.
I like my games hard
I bet you not 5% of the autists that care about this distinction have actually played rogue
it's almost like playing rogue isn't a prerequisite to have skin in the game of proper genre nomenclature, good point anon
maybe because the games that came after it are infinitely more replayable and interesting. nethack, dcss, any *band. brogue exists as a true successor to rogue. shut the frick up you colossal homosexual
so why arent they called nethacklikes?
because that would be going backward from what he said? get your head straight
because rogue is the very first game to do this shit (debatable, there's a couple before it, but rogue is the only popular one). and nethack is a successor to hack, so it'd be hacklike. gay
I tried it, it was alright. Trolls are bullshit tho.
do you need to watch the very first horror film to like the genre? homie shut the frick up
If you can't tell something is a roguelike before your first death, it isn't a rogulike
>crtl+f 'Rouge"
>4 matches
Good job guys!
21, with restrictions. You just can't spell.
you didn't get it dumbass
Sorry, I'm not a coomer.
I pray for your soul anon. I really do.
anoun... i
Well it's good to see we have a lot of X-Men fans in the thread.
>words and their meanings change over time
>autists literally cannot comprehend this
yeah that would be fine and dandy if the 2 types of game didn't play completely different from one another moron.
this isn't even that. Literally turning into figuratively is stupid because the word becomes meaningless. Roguelike is used because people are more accustom to calling something "something-like" rather than "something-lite". The definition is still useful, 99% of people understand it, its just people being pedantic.
Ya like "woman" can be anything you want now because frick definitions
You will never be a Roguelike
your behavior is very womanlite anon
you need to be more pissy in your text to be more woman-like ok?
I identify as a rogulike
It's annoying when a word used to categorize something is misinterpreted and the category is then diluted with stuff that shouldn't be there, and now makes it harder to find what the word was originally used to describe in the first place.
I'm gonna be honest with you I actually am having an autistic shitfit over here
>I'm gonna be honest with you I actually am having an autistic shitfit over here
yeah I know, thats why I call every game a roguelike regardless of how it plays
behave yourself
imo there's nothing autistic about it. we use different words and labels to be able to differentiate things, that guy is either trolling or is some moron who gets defensive when he's wrong instead of just changing his incorrect behavior
Lite Lemonade is lemonade with less sugar. Lemonade-like is a drink made with citrus.
i like both but there are actually very few roguelikes released. I'm still waiting on the same handful of games for years now.
im rogueliking RIGHT NOW
Rogue-Likes.
I like Tales of Maj'eyal the most. But the expansion for it is going SLOW
I've tried other ones but they were a bit iffy, not exactly what I want, like Caves of Qud, ADOM, and Low Magic Age. Cogmind too, but I had fun with that.
A roguelike is a roguelike
A roguelite is a game of a different genre with roguelike elements
If you think anything else you are clinically moronic, especially if you think the presence or absence of permanent progression has anything to do with the definitions
I like both but I prefer roguelites, I find that the meta progression keeps me engaged longer. Finish a long run of boi, and I might be keen to jump in and try the new shit I unlocked, roguelikes I just get burned out on faster
>I find that the meta progression keeps me engaged longer.
That isn't what the words mean you stupid fricking moron
I feel like those elements are fun at first but after awhile I get burned out because there's none left to unlock and the core gameplay usually isn't as good as games that don't have them
progression fits. meta kinda fits if you're going off of terms like meta cognition
Nuclear Throne isn't a roguelike because it has no permanent progression. You have no clue what these words mean.
nobody said anything about nuclear throne buddy
I would say a game that doesn't have permanent progression but has procedural generation and permadeath would be called x genre game with roguelike elements
>nobody said anything about nuclear throne buddy
Room temperature IQ
To me roguelite =/= game with roguelike elements
it means a game that features roguelike elements and has some kind of persistent unlocks
you might disagree, I don't really care
It's okay to be wrong as long as you're aware that you're wrong and just don't care
neither term has an agreed upon definition, as this thread shows
I think the only thing you could say has an agreed upon definition is "traditional roguelike" but even that gets muddied up with other games on steam
Mine was the original definition, then a bunch of morons got it wrong and that started catching on.
imagine how women feel
Your mental health will improve greatly once you learn to go more than 15 minutes without thinking about trannies
I rarely think of them, it's just the whole
>Mine was the original definition, then a bunch of morons got it wrong and that started catching on.
reminded me of the "what is a woman" debate
Which means you thought of them, because you're obsessed. What are you not getting here?
I'm not obsessed, but if you continue trying to keep this conversation alive I'm going to assume you are
And now you're projecting, wonderful
look guy, I'm just not interested
>nuclear throne
Nobody mentioned nuclear throne schizo
>not a roguelike because it has no permanent progression
Roguelikes don't have permanent progression
>nuclear throne has no permanent progression
Yes, it does. You haven't played the game. Otherwise, you would know that there are unlockable characters
It must be hard being such an angry and impotent individual
>anon on a basket weaving forum claims he is the person who originally defined what a roguelike is
Sure thing schizo
Why are you obsessed with other people thinking about trannies
What you've been doing all thread
>Nobody mentioned nuclear throne schizo
I did, as an example of why your definition is wrong. You'd realize that if you weren't mentally disabled.
>Yes, it does. You haven't played the game. Otherwise, you would know that there are unlockable characters
Horizontal progression.
You are a moron
>looking for roguelike games to play as I enjoy them
>trying to filter for them is impossible because people think the genre means randomly generated loot/maps
>can't even correct anyone without being getting unreasonably mad about it for no reason
I'll never understand why people feel like their game HAS to be called a "roguelike" when the only thing it shares with rogue is that the graphics are shit
*without people getting unreasonably mad
This is how I feel about it. It doesn't help that Steam has a button that separates the two that effectively does nothing.
it used to be that the traditional roguelike tab only featured grid based games like rogue but at some point that changed
There ought to be a law that you have to play Rogue before you're allowed to label something Roguelike.
rogue is a pretty bad roguelike to be fair
40 years of iteration tends to have that effect.
Also, Rogue isn't a roguelike.
right, it's a procedurally generated, turn based, grid based dungeon crawler with permadeath
I'd rather play a roguelite.
Pixel/asci graphics aren't massively appealing. I prefer action combat. I like a progression system.
Basically the only core elements I enjoy are procedural level generation, random upgrades, and meaningful death. Would be nice if there could be a new term for this instead of calling every budget indie game a roguelike, but that's where we're at. Reminds me of how every game used to just get the blanket RPG definition.
it should be rogueish
Just call it a (soft) permadeath, procedural, action game.
All of that needs to be said regardless in descriptions because "roguelike" refers to such a wide variety.
playing boi atm
hate it
Post your favorite rogueshite game
I hate roguelikes. It's just single player mobas
??????????????
Is dome keeper a roguelike?
>turn based
>tile based
>procedurally generated
>no metaprogression
it's a roguelike
anything else is a roguelite
simple as
The fact that "Rogue", whether -lite or -like, is linked to games like Hades shows that we've failed as a species.
"Games with permadeath" needs a different term entirely removed from Rogue.
It doesn't even need a special term. Would you say tetris is a roguelite?
If you die it resets. Every round is unique. Whole game is tile-based. Doesn't even have metaprogression. Also, importantly, came out after Rogue.
According to your post and the normalgay consensus Tetris is exactly like Rogue!
Pretty much. Cataclysm or Project Zomboid are Roguelike. Hades or every card battle game is a Roguelite if there's even a single element that "unlocks" for a new run.
>Cataclysm
Yes.
>Project Zomboid
No.
It's not even turnbased, and the tiles only matter for building, not movement.
Why is movement decides it's a Rougelike? For me Green Hell, Battle Brothers or Sons of Forest count like Rougelike if you have iron mode on.
why does camera perspective change genre from fps to third person shooter?
its just perspective right?
>pretty much
>names a title which is neither turn nor tile based, has no proc gen outside of zed and item placement
lel
>permadeath not pertinent
try again. it's not inherent to your last clause.
i figured it was implied, but yes, permadeath is a requirement
Both are misleading as you never ever go rogue in these games
Those are the same thing. Nobody can ever provide proper definitions without contradicting each other.
see
RogueLIKE means simultaneous turns, tile based RPG. Has perma-death and procedural generation.
RougeLITE means any gameplay type (although most usually platformer or twin stick shooter) with perma-death and procedural generation
NEITHER genre name has anything to do with meta-progression
>permadeath
>gridbased
>turnbased
Jeez it ain't fricking hard
Both
I like ToME, UNLOVED, RoR1 and HC mode in most ARPGs
I'll assault anyone who uses the term incorrectly IRL
t. /rlg/
Imagine admitting you frequent /rlg/ like its a good thing.
I'm a proud member who added to the threads culture
I'm the diamond in the shitpile
also this thread makes me very upset and angry
My power rankings
toilet water >>>>>> rlg >>>>>> moldy fry from the dumpster>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>v
Isn't that one of the early videos that popularized the myth and misunderstanding that the difference between roguelikes and roguelites was meta progression? And that roguelikes could still be just about whatever the frick for as long as they didn't have metaprogression
That's moronic. I hate that video.
You know why Roguelite are shit? Because they mostly implement grinding as filler for your gameplay. Where you only have like 2 or 3 maps to beat but you only start with basic shitty skills or cards so that you get fricked until your loss translates to XP and unlock stronger shit.
This is like getting into Chess but starting with only the King against entire board of AI set. Meantime Rougelike from the beginning give you the means to beat the game on the first run. Of course your experience with the game might make it easier - see Neo scavenger or Fear&Hunger where learning crafting or tactics will make the game less challenging but it's not artificial extending the game lenght
Well no shit
This aspect has been central to the distinction for a decade
Make note of how the left side column is not like the right side column.
Second one, DCSS right? Love that one 😀
>Second one, DCSS right?
Yeah.
Left column from top to bottom.
Cataclysm.
DCSS.
Elona.
ZHP.
Rift Wizard.
Azure Dreams.
ToME.
Rogue Survivor.
Pokemon Mystery Dungeon.
One Way Heroics.
My bro i love Cataclysm Dark Days ahead but let's not pretend that playing on ASCII is pure boomer autism. Just use the default tileset the creator himself put in the recent builds.
Last in the left?
See
.
It's kind of a must play game too, I'd argue. Try it.
Neither.
You have no preference? Either is fine? Pleb
Is the Civilization series considered a Roguelike
Please describe the aspects of civ which translate to rouge
Every game is a new run, every run is unique with different seeds that are randomized
By those metrics Go is a roguelike
Correct
If you want to troll, at least do it well.
Civ is a roguelike because it's turn-based and tile-based.
I never played rogue so it's irrelevant
You also never had sex so I guess people should just stop talking about it
>Game has both and you can select which you prefer
Rogue Legacy 2 was way more based than anyone could have expected
the second was worse than the first, which already sucked
moron
Reminder that the term 'roguelite' was coined by Rogue Legacy to describe its feature of purchasing permanent upgrades in between attempts.
Any other usage of the term is incorrect.
Roguelite was defined way before that as a roguelike that is light on mechanics and comparatively easy to play, you goddamn mongoloid.
Name a single case 'roguelite' was used before June 2013
>Reminder that the term 'roguelite' was coined by Rogue Legacy to describe its feature of purchasing permanent upgrades in between attempts.
No. Whatever gave you that impression?
They coined roguelite because their game is a sidescrolling action platform-adventure game, that is in no way a roguelike but has been heavily designed around some roguelike elements.
They always knew that their game was not a roguelike. Which is why they've never called Rogue Legacy or Rogue Legacy 2, roguelikes. But whatever gave you the impression that they called it roguelite because it has metaprogression? Why did you assume that was the case and not because it's a realtime game? A sidescrolling game? A platformer? Not gridbased? Not simulturn? Etc, etc, etc.
Roguelite was initially coined as a term for any kind of roguelike inspired game that isn't a roguelike but still has a focus on some roguelike elements. That's where the "lite" comes in.
It's Roguelike but a lite approximation.
All that said. As an addendum.
Frick any journalists who calls or called Rogue Legacy, 1 or 2, roguelikes.
Even in the official press releases for the game, the devs call the games roguelites. So the press reading these press releases, seeing the games described as roguelites, and then proceeding to write articles and headlines where they call it roguelikes instead. Can go frick themselves.
The guy who invented the .gif format said it's pronounced "jif", but he's moronic and wrong.
i like both, depending on my mood
Man for how many times I've seen this garbage shilled youd think he would've at least had 10k views by now
homosexual who cares about some boomer "le genre defining" titles? You can count those games on one hand. It's absolutely irrelevant in comparison to an entire fleet of new games sharing same concepts and described as roguelikes. Cope.
permadeath is not necessary mechanic but punishing death is, good examples of where dying punishes you enough are hollow knight, souls series and bloodborne
permadeath works best in turn based stuff where your knowledge of the game carries over and you won't get fricked over by butter fingers, fear and hunger is a good example of permadeath done right
Honestly, I feel weird in that I hate roguelike games, but love roguelike modes in other games. Being able to take a character aside and gear them up over an hour is fun, but I like having that comfy max power to come back to. It feels weird to never want to play something like Hades but then when I'm doing my weeklies in star rail I have a blast coming up with these dumb builds to make my team pop off.
>Turn based
>Dungeon crawler
>Can be played without metaprogression
How is Crypt of the Necrodancer not a roguelike again?
Is there a game like CDDA but less autistic?
>CDDA
Ciggers Dongue Dy Anus?
Super Hexagon is a roguelite, you cannot change my mind.
>PENTAGON
>Blood rushes straight to dick
i call em twin stick looters, platformers and procgen dumpsters. every time you look into a dumpster it's filled with different varieties of trash! just start digging in a different direction and the layers of trash will be mildly different. If you're tired of today's trash just wait until the weekly dumpster pickup arrives and it'll
soon be filled with a new pile of trash!! unlimited replay value!!!
any recommendations for (first person) dungeon crawler roguelikes ?
Most first person dungeon crawlers are blobber rpgs. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any first person dungeon crawling rouglikes. But if there are, they are probably few in number.
>you can unlock new characters, weapons, items, skills... after each run
>but they're not better than original characters, weapons, items, skills... just offer different playstyles
still roguelike?
pointless mechanic to have in a game that gives you false sense of progression that could have just been in the game to begin with but probably yes
It depends but generally yes. The biggest 'violation' of Berlin Interpretation is they're real time. Reminder for all, the opening paragraphs are
>This list can be used to determine how roguelike a game is. Missing
some points does not mean the game is not a roguelike. Likewise,
possessing some points does not mean the game is a roguelike.
>The purpose of the definition is for the roguelike community to better
understand what the community is studying. It is not to place
constraints on developers or games.
if the characters, weapons, items, skills are your starting option then yes thats fine
but if you mean as new things available in the middle of runs then its dangerously close to a lite, its theoretically a roguelike, but depending on the exact "not better"ness of them it might be a light
but things like unlocking new starting races, classes, trees, etc that have new things in them is A-Okay, especially if its done in a way to slowly introduce the player to new mechanics and complexity rather than just forcing them to look elsewhere for what to start as, especially if there is a way to force unlock them if u have already done it before
Whatever Into the Necrovale is. Not shilling. I'm beating the demo for the10th time right now
Both for different reasons
i don't understand why it matters what genre a game falls into. genres are largely arbitrary and imperfect descriptions
it's autism and a need to categorize things for them to make sense and be easily understood, same thing as religious dogma, systems of governance, species, gender, sex, ideologies, botany, biology etc
it's all literally just to make things easier to understand and categorize for people
>but why does it matter if you like the game
puritanism, if your identity is tied to your consumerism anything that deviates that will feel not good enough to a puritan who wants to follow their brand with orthodox zeal
>wah the mean roguelike people won't let my trash normie games into their genre and fanbase
frick off, be content that your games are infinitely more mainstream and leave our niche community alone.
i am explaining to the person why people are so obsessed with the genre being specifically something and why they're so orthodox about defining it
being into a genre doesn't make you special, being moronic does
Good roguelikes:
>Approaching Infinity, Demon, Caves of Qud, DCSS .15 and below, Paco's Quest, Brogue, Tales of Maj'Eyal, Shattered Pixel Dungeon, Rogue-FP, One Way Heroics +, Dwarf Fortress Adventure Mode prior to version .40, UnReal World, and DoomRL.
Good roguelites:
>Slay the Spire, FTL, Vagante, Noita, Nuclear Throne, Into The Breach, Hades, Streets of Rogue, Risk of Rain 1, Spelunky, Crypt of the Necrodancer, Monster Train, Cultist Simulator, Death Road to Canada, and Downwell
You're welcome.
>fake difficulty
just because some people slap around the label to rake in money from idiots who don't watch any kind of gameplay before jumping in doesn't mean that is what defines the genre, you might as well say that moba's are gacha, first person shooters are loot box simulators, 4x is a cashgrab and that indie games are all development hell monthly milk fests
just because some idiots do that doesn't mean it is what defines the genre
the issue here is that a game being "rogue-like" vs. not rouge-like is a spectrum that depends on a number of separate gameplay elements:
- turn-based RPG
- grid based navigation
- permadeath
- procedural generation or some other form of randomization
- lack of meta-progression between runs
it would make the most sense for "roguelite" to be something that satisfies around 2 or 3 of these criteria but not all of them - a term for something that's kind of halfway between being roguelike and being any other video game
not being used for any one specific combination of these aspects
procedural generation and perma-death were the interesting innovations of rogue. Grid based dungeon crawlers were a dime a dozen at the time but have almost died out today. Calling something roguelite because it has grid based movement and turn based combat is ridiculous because those are not at all the things that made rogue unique.
Besides no meta progression is an asinine thing to focus on. Wether or no you have some new character unlocks or a shortcut to later levels doesn‘t significantly change the gameplay loop enough to consider it a new genre
>Wether or no you have some new character unlocks or a shortcut to later levels doesn‘t significantly change the gameplay loop enough to consider it a new genre
It changes literally the entire gameplay loop. In roguelites you are encouraged to die and repeat, and often you can't win without doing so numerous times. In roguelikes dying is discouraged because it's just failure and every run can potentially be the winning one.
Roguelites can be fun; I got a lot of enjoyment out of Slay the Spire, Binding of Isaac, Rogue Legacy II, FTL, and others. However, I've played more Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup than all of them combined.
Both, but it depends on how they're balanced.
Like if its a roguelike, if its going to expect my runs to last hundreds of hours then it better not make me glassy as all hell.
And for roguelites, as long as the meta progression only serves as a smooth learning curve or a way to keep runs fresh.
>roguelike fans make, play, and enjoy roguelikes for decades
>roguelike fans start being more and more experimental with the genre and start exploring game design far beyond even the boundaries of the genre, while still experimenting with roguelike elements and design
>since these games aren't actually roguelike games at all, roguelike fans dub them roguelites, but enjoy these games too for what they can offer
>then a completely new audience appears that enjoy roguelites but doesn't actually enjoy roguelikes
>while the name roguelite made sense to the roguelike fans who made the roguelites, the new audience who aren't actually fans of roguelikes but have grown obsessed with roguelites, feel belittled and insulted
>why are their favourite games called "lite", and they take it personal
>starts acting super fricking defensive about their games being called roguelites and just steals the use of roguelike while giving zero fricks about the countless actual roguelikes that have been made, are made, and are played to this day
Fricking pathetic and I have no respect for you c**ts. Roguelite was never an insult so it's beyond fricking pathetic that you weren't happy with the term.