>this makes Ganker lose their mind
lol
lmao even
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roguelikes/roguelites
>this makes Ganker lose their mind
lol
lmao even
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Even the biggest roguelike dweebs couldnt come up with a definitive meaning for what is a roguelike. Maybe roguelikegays should just use a less moronic name?
How about you play a lot of roguelikes before it became a meme and you'll know it when you see it?
You take on randomly generated rooms earning some form of rewards for progressing that let you pick from randomly generated set of choices that improve your character in some way. If you die you lose your progress. Some games might have permanent bonuses for your character that you keep between attempts. The randomly generated rooms and enemies can be altered with unique modifiers.
Okay but does it play Like Rogue
Who cares. Phantom Slayer is not a boomer shooter either.
its a game that plays like rogue (1983), moron
you need a definition for doom clones too?
it means you do the same shit over and over again and it's fricking lazy and gay
I know it when I see it, just like porn.
>Even the biggest roguelike dweebs couldnt come up with a definitive meaning for what is a roguelike.
?si=O91afy2eYX-Mnrj9
>mfw berlin even says "just because it fits this criteria doesn't make it a roguelike"
I thought germans were supposed to be autistic and categorical
>"Missing some points does not mean the game is not a roguelike."
>"Likewise, possessing some points does not mean the game is a roguelike."
Imagine completely ruining the point of your own autistic convention back to back in a single paragraph
that autists are good at categorizing things is the biggest meme of all time - they categorize everything, sure, but the categories are bizarre and useless
Frick all that shit, the definitive roguelike definition:
>permadeath
>starting over is FUN (mainly because of the incredible variety in every aspect of the game)
Also
>no progression between games
I am sick of it.
Well done you've stumbled upon the defining trait that makes a rougelike a rougeLITE
/thread
Anybody who doesn't realize this doesn't play enough vidya (so basically all of Ganker)
>World of Warcraft Hardcore is a roguelike
yes, so is hardcore Minecraft
Lites have permanent progression, making future runs easier. It's not a hard thing to grasp. Also why is 'action roguelite' under roguelite, like... no shit
>top-down
>grid-based
>simultaneous turn-based
>stats
>items
>procedural generation to some degree
if your game does not fulfill ALL of those requirements, it is NOT a roguelike! it's that simple!
>if your game does not fulfill ALL of those requirements, it is NOT a traditional roguelike! it's that simple!
fixed that
Frick the bait OP what's your favorite RL? I really am enjoying Dawn of the Mexica right now.
Fortnite
not even a meme, fortnite is an unironic roguelite
Im split between StS, Noita and shattered pixel dungeon
I'm not familiar with STS? Which one would that be? Also Pixel Dungeon is fine, ignore shitters. A RL is a RL.
I have that in my backlog. The fact that it comes with a 100 page manual is awesome. I really gotta play it sometime.
slay the spire
i like cogmind
well since SPD is the only roguelike you actually named, I guess that one is your favorite!
Not OP, but here's what I'm playing at the moment:
>Slasher's Keep
>Risk of Rain 2
>Post Void
>Going Under
>Dead Estate
>Children of Morta
>Curse of the Dead Gods
>Atomicrops
>Enter the Gungeon
>Nuclear Throne
>The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth
>Crypt of the NecroDancer
>Streets of Rogue
>Heroes of Hammerwatch
>Moonlighter
>UnderMine
>Death Road to Canada
>Risk of Rain (2013)
>ScourgeBringer
>Downwell
>Dead Cells
>Neon Abyss
>Risk of Rain Returns
>Spelunky
>Rogue Legacy
>Noita
>Boneraiser Minions
>20 Minutes Till Dawn
>Tiny Rogues
>Just KIng
>Star of Providence
>Loop Hero
>Into the Breach
>Darkest Dungeon
>For The King
>Despot's Game Dystopian Battle Simulator
>Star Renegades
>Heretic's Fork
>Rogue Tower
>Dome Keeper
>FLERP
>Astrea Six-Sided Oracles
>Inscryption
>Wildfrost
>Slay the Spire
>Stacklands
>Luck be a Landlord
>Lucky Hero
>Peglin
I pick which game I play each day by rolling dice.
NO NON ONONONOO NONE OF THESE ARE ACTTUALK ROGUELIKES REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
I'm going to be enjoying Elin tomorrow.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2135150/Elin/
Elona doesn't do permadeath and is still plays more Like Rogue than most of the shit morons call roguelikes.
I started playing Elona a little while ago, it's fun. Elin is a spiritual successor I am guessing? I didn't get too far before getting sidetracked by other games, though. Magic user seemed pretty strong, since I could kill most things before they got close to me. But then I got 1 floor too deep in a dungeon and can't 1-shot mobs anymore and get raped.
Technically its a "prequel", same dev its just his new project. Kickstarter alpha keys are supposed to be going out todayish.
Elona seems even more impenitrable than your avarage True Roguelike for a newcomer, even me who came from roguelikes was pretty baffeled.
It's pretty psychotic and the actual goal of the game (clearing the dungeon Lesimas) is pretty insigificant, even better that most of the gameplay area outside of the dungeon isn't even procgen but static maps so falls even further from the modern zoomer "roguelike" definitions.
Actual jrpg-esque grinding and minmaxing required in some parts depending on what kind of character type you're going for.
Seems easier to me, though it's the only 'true' roguelike I've ever put a serious amount of time into. It's got graphics, anime, no permadeath, no real failstate though you could potentially get fricked by not understanding etherwind, lots of casual JRPG funstuff mechanics like farming and building houses, etc.
>Elin tomorrow.
Frick you or making me look! I thought it had a relase date finally. Unless the discord beta has enough there to be a decent game finally?
Kickstarter backers are getting early keys sent out today, which means you should keep an eye on /rlg/ or the elona thread in /jp/ for an upload either tonight or tomorrow. Though they did mention an issue with some of the keys in the discord so it might be a couple more days on top of it.
Ahh. I missed the israelitestarter but will definitely keep an eye out for an upload. Thank you kind anon.
Elonachads, we eating good!
i will buy this even though i have absolutely no interest in it at all and when i last played it it was kind of shit (it was fairly early in dev do'ever)
to support good dev
even though elona + dev is better he doesnt ahve a game to buy
this game confirms eyth (of infidel) is an actual god btw, the god of not having a god
its really simple
turn on numlock to move with pad
the menus work like any other rpg at all
go to town, click on sign board after picking little girl
do what the quest tells you to do its not complex at all
repeat until you can buy a farm
buy a farm
repeat while farming
at some point you will get a wish from little girl drinking water, get 7leagueboots
use those to do long-travel missions/dump your points you get from leveling into performing (with decent potential) to about 30 so you can grind it in town for easy cash, then move onto grinding it in auctions full of rich people/take magical plant feat on chargen to get violent garden and 1 shot 99% of all first act enemies and just run dungeons
buy a shop
stick little girl/some other pet in shop (i always put her in i hate pets)
buy a house
start investing in the magic shop so it spawns potential pots, buy those
by alchemy kit make water
bless water
bless potential
repeat from 'read sign' but with good potential
or ignore 99% of this use a pet and watch it outscale the game no effort because pets are fricking busted
once strong enough start murdering npcs in auctions who drop uniques for stardust
at its core the loop of elona is similar to something like rune factory and boils down to doing the same thing over and over again
>and when i last played it it was kind of shit (it was fairly early in dev do'ever)
Yeah the dev build that got released was literally just for discord members to find bugs in, theres no leveling, no monster AI, most of the skills don't even function, and shop costs were basically nonexistant. It was very fun to see just how elona like it was and got me excited for an actual release.
between "turn on numlock to move with pad" (i don't have a numpad on my keyboard) and "do what the quest tells you to do its not complex at all" is where I messed up
I was ignorant of etherwind and realized too late that I was wearing a cursed chestplate. It eventually progressed to doomed and I was frickin zip zooming around everywhere.
Might restart the run someday though
>ether disease
>cursed gear
classic
the one thing I remember from Elona:
>Choose a pet:-
>1- cat
>2- dog
>3- little girl
the game feels kinda jank and the controls are pretty much ascii dwarf fortress and OG rogue, played it for a few hours then got tired of it since it felt like one of those games where the first 50 hours are the tutorial.
Being able to play as a smol fairy is a big plus though.
The first 50 hours are finding out that you've spent fifty hours playing the wrong way.
Elona is faithful to the look and feel of roguelikes, the games being peddled as roguelikes are just shmups/platformers/etc with procgen but that word has been worn down to a fine powder by homosexual marketers.
Isaac > Hades > Monster Train
I like other ones too, but those are my top three.
i play stone soup pretty much every day
Based DCSS enjoyer. I keep trying to make a hillorc Beogh run happen, but its going as well as 'fetch'
Wasn't there some controversy about dcss, something about the creator being a moron and actually removing stuff from the game or somesuch, or am I thinking of some other game?
Well, they remove stuff all the time and there are multiple versions people play.
Yeah that's DCSS. People mostly play the korean fork now.
Which one is that?
>People mostly play the korean fork
I'm pretty sure that's still niche.
for me it's qud, i fricking love the aesthetic
Dead Cells for sure
Slay the Spire followed by FTL. Never really enjoyed Isaac.
Currently playing Against The Storm, it's perfect for me who likes citybuilders in general but very quick to drop interest when it reaches mid to late game.
Favorite probably StS.
Whoever made this doesn't understand how these diagrams are supposed to work. as an old-school Moria fan I gave up on this definition war a long time ago, but it was really weird to see a term that was invented and used by a fairly niche community get snatched up and redefined for marketing purposes (around the time Spelunky got popular). Definitely a lesson in power about a small fandom vs. the hordes on the internet who said "too bad, ours now"
What forever makes me seethe is that the only thing "like" rogue roguelites have is that it randomly creates dungeons and you start back at the beginning. It's just procgen games
I remember someone talking about this, and I remember I promised to play it. I didn't.
Dredmor is my favorite roguelike cause I enjoy the artstyle/music
Spelunky is my favorite roguelite cause I enjoy the atmosphere (the original, remake was too, well, cartoony. It's like Ocarina of Time -> Wind Waker except it got replaced with bland cartoon instead of fun cartoon)
It may have been me, I've haven't seen many people mention it here. I played Dredmor a couple of times, it's comfy. For me it would have to be:
Dawn of the Mexica=Unreal World>Sil>Angband>Nethack>the rest which I haven't played yet (though that doesn't imply other games are bad or anything).
Do you like it so much because you're Mexican?
No, I'm a white Caucasian, I just like history and games that are historical. It's fun!
I love dungeons of dredmor. Killed myself so many times after changing my hotkeys and accidentally opening an evil magic rift under my feet.
Why is doom-like far less confusing even though it’s used in the same way? My epic game theory is that a lot of people made games that aren’t actually like rogue but wanted to piggyback off the name.
You've done it. You've cracked the code.
>My epic game theory is that a lot of people made games that aren’t actually like rogue but wanted to piggyback off the name.
Yeah I've been saying this for 10 years. I was one of the core anti-roguelite posters back in the day and I made most of the mspaint flowcharts and other memes to try and get people to understand the bastardization that was happening. Turns out informing morons that they are wrong just makes them double down in anger.
Rogue Legacy (the worst roguelite by far) was the first game to use roguelike-adjacency to market itself, it came out right as Dark Souls came to PC and suddenly everyone was obsessed with difficulty in games. After that every indie dev wanted to cash in on the craze and almost every game they made was shit. 10% of a completed game stretched out to last hundreds of hours using every psychological gambling trick in the book to make you think you're having fun when you're really just addicted to making a number go up.
I used to be mad now I just don't care.
>Rogue Legacy (the worst roguelite by far) was the first game to use roguelike-adjacency to market itself
it might have been the first one to use it in its title (I don't know), but Spelunky had the term roguelike on its Steam page back in 2008 and there were articles written about this cool hardcore underground type of game with permadeth
"roguelike-elements" is still not good because Rogue + roguelikes never "owned" those elements in isolation. Permadeth, tile-based, turn-based, dungeon-crawling, however you slice it, it doesn't make sense to refer to the elements in isolation as "roguelike elements". Analogy: wolves have sharp teeth, but we don't call sharp teeth "wolf-like elements". The genre term is the total package and trying to carve off bits of it and say "look it's got roguelike DNA" is how this mess got started. It's a taxonomical mistake to do that kind of thing IMO.
moronic analogy because you do call sharp teeth "wold fangs" when they are teeth that come from a wolf. The randomly generated "world", which is btw the only real common factor between zoomer "roguelikes", permadeath actually being optional at times, is the element most often associated with rogue.
> but Spelunky had the term roguelike on its Steam page back in 2008
Spelunky was not on steam in 2008 you dunce
it was a fricking freeware project by one dude released on a forum
I still play vanilla Angband. I'm too lazy to branch out other than dabbling a bit with Brogue and a handful of others.
since most people just play on steam theyve never actually played an actual roguelike and dont know what it means, since most devs dont know what it means, since most just want 'the isaac audience' and that fat frick called his real time game a roguelike
pic related
i own every roguelike on steam except maybe 1, there are 9 at most
who cares?
me, the guy who made the topic, most people replying since they're in the topic, basically everyone but the wienersucker who goes in a topic he doesn't care about to point at himself and go "wow look how little i care, im posting because i dont care, im so special"
This guy won the argument btw
Steamgays are just console players on PC, because all the strengths of PC (it being an open platform where you can just use ROMS, pirated and abandonware games, as well as niche titles like CDDA and no I don't care if last month they put it on steam it was an example that was a good example and I'm not gonna go back on it) are instead, just spent on buying games cheap.
The problem with modern definition of roguelike is that it isolates procedural generation and permadeath as being the only aspects which meaningfully determine whether something is or is not a roguelike. Calling something like Vampire Survivor or Binding of Isaac a roguelike is an implicit statement that a majority of the gameplay typical of and shared among roguelikes, is irrelevant to their identity as a roguelike.
Suppose that, in ten years from now, it became common practice to refer to all games with WASD movement and real-time combat as first-person shooters. Presumably, FPS fans might object to a game like Binding of Isaac, Path of Exile 2, and Skyrim being referred to as FPS games. It seems absurd to even imagine that this could happen—anybody who has played an FPS intuitively understands that these are not the sole identifying features of the genre. Somebody might retort, "well, the definition has shifted; language evolves." But there is still something wrong here. The shifting definition has discarded many core components of what an FPS should be. No more is there an expectation that aiming skill be important, any associated aesthetic of guns and such weaponry, etc. The FPS fan would be right to object to the new definition not merely on some technical ground—"this is what that word used to mean!"—but also on the grounds that the new definition can only enjoy popular use by discarding the values themselves that were core to the genre.
And so it is with roguelikes. The problem is that the legacy of roguelikes is being carried on primarily by people who do not care about roguelikes, do not like roguelikes, do not want to play games like Rogue at all, but for some incomprehensible reason insist on being 'real roguelikes.' All those other elements that define a roguelike are dismissed by the insistence that permadeath and procedural generation are the only things that matter.
First person shooter conveys all the info you need from just reading it. Roguelike does not. Thats literally the entire issue: shit definition. Muh not a real roguelike dweebs should have come up with a better genre name decades ago if they were going to shit their pants so hard over it
>but it does convey all the info you need because its like rogue
uhuh yeah sure homosexual thats why even before indie devs ran the definition into the ground people were arguing over what is and is not a roguelike
Different anon but it's in the name, Roguelike - A game like Rogue - and so if the game only shares some superficial similarities (proc gen, permadeath), it isn't like Rogue.
okay but first person shooter = first person perspective + shooting
roguelike needs the context of what the frick rogue is and how it plays. Its missuse is due to it being a dumbfrick term in the same vein as castlevania or soulslike. Arguing over what is or is not a roguelike is as old as the term itself because the term is SHIT
isn't first person shooter a drake song?
>roguelike needs the context of what the frick rogue is and how it plays
Like rogue you disingenuous frick.
Rogue plays a very specific way, and it's obvious to anyone who has played videogames and Rogue.
There's a reason why we call them roguelikes and not dungeon crawlers or rpgs.
>RPG
Truly there has never been a more cursed genre descriptor than this
Yes there is: CRPG
>dude the term isnt moronic you just know what is a roguelike when you play it bro
translation: the term is vague as frick and I cant define it
>vague
it plays Like Rogue
go play Rogue
https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php/Berlin_Interpretation
>nooo that doesn't count because I don't like it!
>This list can be used to determine how roguelike a game is. Missing
>some points does not mean the game is not a roguelike. Likewise,
>possessing some points does not mean the game is a roguelike.
Cool, now define what makes something an rpg because that applies just as much to that genre.
Im not going to because RPG is just as much of a dumbfrick definition of roguelike
Yet people use the term all the time, in a generally reasonable manner.
You pedantic frick.
>in a generally reasonable manner.
They list diablo as a roguelike. Opinion discarded.
>elitist gets gatekept by other, even more insufferable elitist
ahahahaha
They aren't elitists, their criterion for what a roguelike is, is the most milquetoast wet fart of an opinion possible. That just makes them gigamorons more than anything.
>is asked to explain
>refuses
>gets mad
ahahahaha
>the legacy of roguelikes is being carried on primarily by people who do not care about roguelikes, do not like roguelikes, do not want to play games like Rogue at all, but for some incomprehensible reason insist on being 'real roguelikes.
This is basically it. The people who "love roguelikes" probably wouldn't put more than a few hours into an actual traditional roguelike.
It's literally because saying roguelike feels nicer than roguelite. That's all it is, so the term sticks better.
It's actually because zoomers and game "journalists" are massive lazy fricking morons and refused to say "roguelike-elements" properly. It's like saying multiplayer call of duty is a rpg because it has levels that unlock stuff.
Reminder this is precisely what happend with the original Bioshock.
I'm not saying it's good that people use it as a catch all, I'm justing it's because people find it easier and more comfortable to say. It's a bit like 'less' and 'fewer', hardly anyone seems to use the latter anymore even when the former is incorrect, like "there are less players in the game". Less is easier to say than fewer and the distinction between the wrong usage has been socially outweighed by mouth muscle laziness.
The real reason is because nobody gives a single flying frick about distinguishing the two beyond 2 autists who REALLY like ASCII graphics. The reality is that normies hear about the term and just can't be made to care enough to bother remembering that one is supposed to be a turn-based top-down dungeon crawler, while the other just means ONLY the heart-and-soul of what makes the genre distinct from a traditional CRPG in the first place.
yikes
no permadeath = not roguelike
I disagree with the idea permadeath should be a requirment for roguelike status so to see that become the only criteria to so many people is rather upsetting
i mean
"randomly generated / procedureally generated" garbage would make even diablo 2 or warframe a roguelite.
unfortunately it seems like most of teh morons in this thread think diablo in hardcore mode would be a roguelike.
>>Risk of Rain 2
frick you for reminding me my exgf was playing this shit and i saw it as her discord status last night. frick you
>lemme just randomly bring up my personal life and insult people for no reason
based normcel
I don't know if procgen should be a hard requirement either, neither diablo or warframe play like rogue
ftfy
nice
that's more like it
yup that's it
genre definitions in every form of media are vague and gay, and so are the people that care deeply about them
>Rogue-like
>Its like rogue
Is it really that difficult
>Its permadeath
>Its randomized
>Its dungeons
NO
ITS
LIKE
ROGUE
okay so what makes a game like rogue?
If it is very similar to rogue
A top down, simultaneous turn-based, grid based, RPG with global procedural generation and permadeath (real permadeath, by the way). Its like asking what a Metroid clone or Souls clone would play like. Like fricking Metroid or souls shit. What kind of question is shit?
>and permadeath (real permadeath, by the way)
Oh no, i'm not a roguelike...
Doesn't this have it, but it's optional?
The permadeath feature was added later in the fan overhaul Elona+, it wasn't in the original or even the earlier versions of Elona+
Elona has NEVER been a roguelike. It's Lite but has aspects grognards and OGs can appreciate - which is why it's more relevant in Like circles. Same shit as Cataclysm.
Elona is far far closer to a roguelike than most of the things mentioned in this thread. The more morons continue to abuse the roguelike term, the more Elona becomes a true one just by virtue of being closer than the rest already.
Elona is a good game, you should play it.
I do play it. How is admitting it's not a Roguelike detract from its quality. I don't exclusively play roguelikes.
Neither of those are RLs. have a nice day.
Except than permadeath, your definition is pretty good. Permadeath makes the game more hardcore of course, but a roguelike has no obligation to be hardcore
People call literally anything souls like these days, platformers, shooters, if it has a roll button it's a souslike and sometimes you don't even need that for the title (hollow knight)
If it has a stamina bar and a doge button it's a soulslike
I mean an actual souls clone. People like to use soulslike for the most inane comparisons
>you enter a boss room and the boss has a health bar? it's a dark souls clone!
>checkpoint system that player initiates
>open world (by that I mean the player can navigate and go back.)
>death has you lose money/experience
>stamina + rolling
What else makes a soulslike a soulslike? Should I include the heavy/light attack system?
if you can reasonably describe it to someone by saying "It's like Rogue but" and then not have to say "different in every meaningful way"
>Sil is like Rogue but heavily based on LotR
Roguelike
>Slay the Spire is like Rogue but instead of everything about Rogue you play cards and traverse map nodes
not Roguelike, because the phrase "Slay the Spire is like Rogue" is only true in absurdly vague ways
This. If you play a game and can't say "Yes, this is like Rogue" and not be a lying piece of shit then it is not a Rogue-like. Fricking shrimple as!
You'll know it when you play it... well, not you since you don't play games, but you get the gist.
I will never accept your revisionsm zoomshit. frick off with your marketing term obscenity
My faborite roguelike
Rogue is shit, the genre should be renamed to something else.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1443430/Rogue/
Why .. would I buy this?
You shouldn't buy it. You can download it for free
BUT WHY DO PEOPLE BUY IT THEN??? WHAT THE FRICK
IT DOESNT EVEN HAVE ANY FEATURES
Is this an introspection on why people spend money on objectively destructive things (gachas) or are you specifically talking about Rogue in general.
So like this one?
rogue specifically
The problem with your dumb frick infographic is that always turn based is a feature of Rogue-likes, so your entire premise is fricked from the begining by being based on a false assumption.
>always turn based is a feature of Rogue-likes
but that's how rogue plays
so if it doesn't play like rogue
its not rogue-like
Exactly. So roguelite should be outside the circle with the slightest overlap and traditional Roguelike should occupy the entirety of the rest of the Rogue-like circle with an even smaller overlap to roguelites
>muh permadeath
mario is my favorite roguelike
I know it's not your point, but you can continue from the most recent world you died in by pressing A + Start.
>A + Start
You didn't beat the game
WAIT FOR REAL?
DOES THIS WORK ON THE DUCK HUNT COMBO CARTS TOO?
Stop cheating.
>but it's in the game
Stop cheating.
>the developers wanted me to use this shortcut
Stop cheating.
Damn this is my post word for word.
I'll say I complete it. Once I 1CC I'll say I beat it.
Only losers are that pedantic about a total stranger using the wrong video game genre name to describe something.
This is like if you enjoyed FPS games and normalgays decided that means 4x games and now you only find 4x games when you are search for a new FPS to play. That's how fricking moronic it is if you actually enjoy games like Rogue these days. "Traditional Rogue-likes" doesn't help as apparently real time twin stick shooters are traditional rogue-likes too!
no its more akin to if fps was never invented as a term and everyone refered to every shooter as a doomlike
More like they refered to any game that involves bullets or guns as a doomlike.
Metal Slug is a WolfenDoom.
I mean, if you enjoy games like Rogue you're kind of shit out of luck unless you also like mystery dungeon games.
these are far and away the worst threads on this board. i say this in full awareness of /misc//racebait/troony obsessed/etc. threads. autism is a terrible thing
It's funny that the millions roguelite fans don't give a rat's ass about these old-ass irrelevant spreadsheet games, and boomers just keep forcing this bullshit just to try in vain to draw some morsel of attention to their dead genre. fricking lmao
Whats wrong, you don't like FPS games?
It's funny you post that considering "shooter" originally referred to shmups before FPS took the term and bastardized it
It's actually a little sad. They should be happy that their genre will live on in a new form once they all die of old age and nobody plays their old ASCII games anymore.
Here's an image to help even the biggest moron understand what's a roguelike
ftfy
I'm glad we agree Crypt of the Necrodancer (all zones) is a roguelike.
I'd argue it's more roguelike than most of the shit that gets called roguelikes lately, but its about as wide as possible of a deviation as you can get from it. Basically ticking all the arbitrary boxes of what newbies think a roguelike is without actually playing like rogue which would be the one disqualifier.
But it is not turn based in general so 90% of the game goes down the not a roguelike path. One option out of many playing as a roguelike does not a roguelike make, but it is closer to being a roguelike than 95% of the steam roguelike catagory.
>But it is not turn based in general
It is, but your turns are on very strict time limits.
Now, how many layers of abstraction can we pull that until we can call Castlevania a roguelike. JRPG threads already have argued themselves to death over the Turns -> ATB -> Action timeline.
The only part that's pushing it is that your turns have a strict time limit, but it does seem to check out as a roguelike from the gameplay I've seen. If you really want, you can call it a rythm based Roguelike to differenciate it from a traditional Roguelike and to indicate its derivative nature
It' very much a Letter of the law but not the spirit type situation. True roguelikes are turn based resulting in a game bulit around tactics and thinking through the problems, since you have all the time you need to do so. But Necrodance puts the turns on a very fast time limit, turning it into just the opposite, a test of execution.
But then necrodancer has a character that dumps the rhythm aspect and just makes it an actual roguelike so eh.
>It's an RPG -> It's not a Roguelike
but... roguelike is a subgenre of RPG...
>moron can't understand how a flowchart works
There are a whole bunch of prior requirements before it gets to that question about rpgs.
All roguelikes are rpgs, but not all rpgs are roguelikes
This chart's moronic. Hell arguing about what is and isn't a roguelike is moronic. Why?
Simple: how many homosexuals here who argue for a loose definition of roguelike, played Pokemon Mystery Dungeons, Tome4, and other (for sake of argument) "traditional rogeulikes"?
Exactly. It's like describing what Doom is, to people who only played COD.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/255070/Abyss_Odyssey/
It's procedural generation shit and when you die you reset I guess it technically counts? Anyways, anybody remember this game? I actually genuinely enjoyed it when it released, not sure why it's still $15 but it was interesting.
Roguelites and procedural games weren't super popular when it came out I guess?
Game already tells you what it is, and its not Rogue
User tags literally say "Action roguelike". It has rogue elements. It's a roguelite in my opinion, that is, everything is random and when you die you start from scratch in a new fully random thing with nothing you acquired.
Roguelikes bare minimum have to be turn based for me. But the entire definition of both is moronic, it's like calling anything with a roll dodge and lock on a 'soulslike'. Yeah I GUESS?
>Action roguelike
That is an oxymoron
>user tags
Whoops, looks like a whole lot of Not Rogue
Its actually funny you bring up soulslikes because theres been a massive trend of things like enemies not respawning until you use a save/healing station ever since, whereas previously they'd just respawn on screen transition or moving far enough away.
>User tags
The user tags for XCOM say it's an RPG.
Why does Slay the Spire fit on that chart?
It would be just another one that is not attached in any way to Rogue.
"roguelites" are better. Why do you think I'm offended that you're not letting my fun games into your imaginary clubhouse?
I don't want to play mouldy old ASCII graphics games. Go away.
I've found these elements to be very enjoyable in roguelites:
>'run' based, i.e. you 'prepare' to go on a run and you can come back to a hub world/camp
>Some form of progress within a run (levels, skills, map elements/evens)
>Some form of progress outside of the run that persists and can be built upon within the runs (skill tree (per character for different 'builds')
>Equipment that can be switched out for different builds and that alters skills and statistics
>Different characters with different native skills, all of the characters basically implement the different game mechanics differently (rogue more attack speed low dmg vs. barbarian high damage low attack speed vs. mage low attack speed high elemental damage etc.)
Vampire Survivors was kind of my first roguelite like this, but it was garbage you couldn't aim. Then Halls of Torment came around and it set the bar so high I couldn't find it in any other roguelites. Maybe Soulstone survivors, but that game just became grindy instead of fun.
>>Some form of progress outside of the run that persists and can be built upon within the runs (skill tree (per character for different 'builds')
I hate this crap nd it completely kills any desire I have to play a roguelite. It's just needless bloat.
I just like to have some semblance of control. Having everything be random just means you're minmaxing for the best thing giving to you like a robot, and you're fricked if you don't get anything good. It's the being able to choose how you want to tackle the overwhelming amount of horde enemies coming to you that's enjoyable.
For example, Noita is absolute crap. You're at the mercy of what the game gives you, if I remember correctly. That's boring.
Sounds like you're just a shitter and need the game to coddle you for you to get a win. meta progression is the bane of game design, it's basically the devs giving up at any semblance of cohesion and just artificially extend your playtime. The telltale sign of a shitty developer.
Some meta progression is good, some is bad.
New characters are fine, IMO.
Passive stat buffs are terrible.
Increased item pool dislike, but I'm hesitant to call it objectively bad.
FTL is a game with great meta progression. You unlock new ships, but nothing changes the run once it starts.
Rogue Legacy is an example of dogshit meta progression -- nearly everything is permanent stats and starting bonuses, to the point where it feels like you are just supposed to die in order to be stronger next time. It feels like the meta progression is building towards winning the game once, rather than being able to win consistently with a fun variety of builds.
I don't mind chaos or randomness in my games, it's that I don't have control that fricks me.
You're forcefed things that you're forced to 'make work', and it's not even the game's fault for giving you shit that doesn't work. Nah, I'm not masochistic enough to like that. I guess people who like PoE and Diablo and no 'meta progression' like that shit because they need that soul-crushing difficulty so that they can have a framework they can exist in, but when I play a game, I enjoy the balance of responsibility and freedom to solve that responsibility. Meaning, if I use the tools I'm given, I should be winning, not getting to 'neutral'.
Again, I don't mind chaos or randomness, it's just that you don't get tools to do the things you need to, which is just shitty. I'm not going to respond to anons who glorify and like that kind of difficulty and think I'm a shitter anymore.
You're just saying you suck over and over again. No one is talking about randomness, we're talking about learning. You're just bad.
Knowledge shouldn't be the primary cause of a death, the opposite then, winning at the game namely, just becomes an intellectual exercise of knowing. You could predict if you're going to win beforehand, because you'd know everything about the game.
I want the opposite. I *don't* know if I'm going to win, and I want to see how far I can go with this specific build. I have an idea, but I don't really know, so I try it out. Then I discover that I have some weaknesses here and there, and I patch them up, making the build stronger and stronger.
Now, many games are so autistic that you need a PhD in the game itself to 'win' at the game. I.e. the margins of 'not knowing' are so small, that even the tiniest of deviations means the game fricks you in the ass without recourse. That's just stress inducing and I don't want that. I'm okay with losing a run, I'm not okay with trying to scramble to get to a 'neutral' position to begin with. Again, I think many people who like PoE, Diablo, Roguelikes and the like (heh), just like the difficulty of having to do the 'right' thing all the time, just like in chess.
I'm okay with not being good at the game. I can improve. What I don't like is that me *not* dying requires me to walk across an incredibly narrowly defined path. If that's the case, then just tell me what I'm supposed to do, and I"ll do it, instead of forcing me through trial and error and making me stressed in the process.
I'm genuinely convinced that people who like games like PoE and Diablo and 'difficult games' (even souls), just like to suffer and be forced into a narrow way of behaving.
>knowledge shouldn't matter
Please tell me this is bait. You just sounds like a pure shitter on copium right now.
I didn't say it shouldn't matter. I said that the resolution of how much you know about the game shouldn't be *so* high, that if you don't do one tiny thing that you should have because you walked a highly specific path of this and then you had to know about this other variable which changed the whole thing so you had to totally change your whole build, but wait, you actually can if you use an obscure item that will do this other things blablablabla.
It's too tiresome. I don't want to play the equivalent of a scientific paper. I just want to play a game.
TL;DR: it should be intuitive, not consciously intellectual.
Heard it all before, it's allways the rng that kills you, not your own failings, please ignore the vast numer of people with 100000+ winstreaks clearly they just all got very lucky. As soon as a die is involved it's impossible to get gud.
It's not a good mentality to have, but it sure is a common one.
You're at the mercy of your own incompetence, you mean. Metaprogression is designed to push you towards a victory regardless of how good you are, whereas non-metaprogression means you have to get gud, or lose. As usual, much RNG is a cope rallying cry for people with no ability to prepare
All this tells me is that you're actually moronic. You don't learn game systems, enemy patterns, enemy weaknesses, etc. You just bash your head against a wall then complain when you lose.
>You're at the mercy of what the game gives you, if I remember correctly
You unlock new spells as you progress but ever start is fresh, part of the skill is learning how spells combine and utilizing what you're given.
You can beat the game with nothing but the starter wand, its primarily a skill issue.
It's been a while since I played Noita, so I can't quite stand behind what I'm saying, but I'm sure I could be wrong.
noita has a lot of flaws Ill give you that
cont.
In other words, I want the buildcrafting and depth of Path of Exile, but not the autistic numbercrunching and artificial difficulty of it. I know the discussion is about the word 'roguelike' being fricked into oblivion into being something that the original rogue game wasn't to begin with.
Maybe it's time to create a new genre (namely the roguelite) instead of clinging to what rogue and roguelikes brought us. I feel there's some unexplored or untapped hint: money potential for games like I mentioned.
I'm honestly surprised no one has made made a PoE with all the chaff cut out and made a roguelike with it.
I guess people think "premade skills but you get to add premade modifiers to it" is adequate replacement being able to add specifically LMP/Pierce/Bounce/AoE/etc
This picture is what I always do. As it turns out, it really isn't that hard to figure out what people are talking about when they mention roguelikes. Sure, Roguelike fans might be technically correct in the complaint that their niche subgenre of games has been appropriated by a larger and largely different audience, and I think that is a valid point, but in practice it's just not really that confusing. You can pretty quickly find out what people are talking about, assuming it wasn't immediately obvious in the first. I've only even had a real conversation a couple of times when it even came up.
>You play games?
>Yeah, I'm real into roguelikes
>Oh, cool, I'm pretty into those as well. Like what games specifically?
>Hades, Risk of Rain 2, you heard of those?
>Yeah I've played those; those are cool games
And then move on. It's really not that hard.
Holy shit, someone who actually talks and thinks like a real human being.
That's because you're not actually trying to find games that play like Rogue. Believe it or not, there are some people who play this said niche subgenre and would like to discuss it with people who also like it instead of catering to gays who bastardize the term since they don't care at all for the subgenre.
>You play games?
>Yeah, I'm really into roguelikes
>That's sick, some of my favourite games are CDDA, Tales of Maj'eyal and the likes
>What the frick are these games? You should play Hades instead
>That's not really my type of game though
>Wtf, didn't you say you like roguelikes?
I just want my niche subgenre to be left alone by outsiders who don't care for it. Is that so hard?
nobody does this except normalgays you should be avoiding anyways. Why are you crying about strawmen?
Yeah, and the point is that normalgays who don't care for the genre force themselves in the discussion and make discussing roguelikes much harder than it should be. When I discuss rpgs, I do not have to filter 99% of the discussion because of gays who do not care for rpgs
Imagine putting so many words in my mouth because I dared to complain about a niche subgenre that I like being coopted by gays who don't care for it.
>Imagine putting so many words in my mouth
you're actually a complete hypocrite with no self awareness lmfaooooo
what was that spiel you went on then, lil bro? "oh boo hoo people ATTACK me because i play old games" nobody talks like that, people just think you're insufferable for other reasons
Tell me what words I put in your mouth, you double Black person. All that I did was illustrate how discussing roguelikes is a pain in the ass because of the apathy towards sticking to the definition of the genre as it is happening in this very thread. I know this might be hard for you to understand, but I do not want to talk about action games when I'm trying to discuss about a genre that's the antithesis of action games
>words words words
seethe harder little boy
I don't even know what point you are trying to make with that made up conversation.
I do play traditional roguelikes. I played DCSS for years, played a lot of Poschengband, and I've been playing a lot of CoQ lately. You might be moronic if you get confused between traditional roguelikes and roguelites.
>>That's sick, some of my favourite games are CDDA, Tales of Maj'eyal and the likes
>>What the frick are these games? You should play Hades instead
Literally nobody talks like that, stop straw manning.
>I just want my niche subgenre to be left alone by outsiders who don't care for it.
No, you want to paint people who don't follow your exact definition as some type of oppressors or enemy, when in reality they couldn't care less about your old ass games, and mean you no ill will at all. Your conversations are more like to go like this:
>You play games?
>Yeah, I'm really into roguelikes!
>That's sick, some of my favourite games are CDDA, Tales of Maj'eyal and the likes!
>I've never heard of them, I've played Hades and Enter the Gungeon though.
>Those aren't roguelikes.
>Huh?
>They aren't actually rogueLIKES, they're rogueLITES.
>Oh okay, sorry I didn't know-
>You're so fricking stupid, stop confusing roguelikes with roguelites.
>Wh-
>I'm going to leave now, I am clearly the better person in this scenario.
>What is wrong with you?
imagine being so terminally online that you think this is a believable conversation
Traditional roguelikes also include things like resource management from mana to hunger and so on that have to be carefully healed up, they have an element of AD&D survival basically in them.
Nethack is a roguelite actually.
Just call them Mutable games.
Mutable because they aren't ever the same, their similarities lie in the run per run gameplay that's meant to have lots of RNG and that's about it.
>RogueLIKEs
What does that make the Rogue genre?
According to Valve, Roguelike and Roguelite are interchangeable, so I will continue to call them all Roguelikes despite what a handful of autists say. Normally I wouldn't care what Valve thinks, but they sell the most roguelikes of any platform by a grand-canyon sized margin so they get to decide.
Literally this. A bunch of sweaty nerds playing games from the 1980s getting together in 2008 do not have the final say in what a roguelike is. It's been decades now, and Steam is the biggest online game store. I think they know better.
same bro
unrelated, whats your favorite shooter here?
>top left
doom-lite+
>top right
doom-lite
>bottom left
doom-lite
>bottom right
doom-lite
none of these are real doom likes now go play doom you fricking zoomer
actually good parody of the autists in this thread my sides
>pong-lite
not even a real game
Arkanoid is a pong-lite.
Valve has clearly defined terms for these though.
hehehehehe
Those are all suggestions. The main page shows four
>Action
>Adventure
>Third-Person Shooter
>Co-op
That is pretty funny though
The foremost page tags are a mix of your preferred genres based on play history and top voted tags, so its not really an infallible system but it works simply through the volume of users participating. Also if you vote on one yourself it gets bumped up to the top for you only.
Naw. You and I have the same front page tags. But in any case, yes, Valve clearly defines these games. Roguelites are just another way of saying Roguelike.
>bullet hell shmup
>twinstick shooter (I think, never actually played this)
>fps
>chest high wall-like
The frick are you two talking about, those are just shooters, stop trying to make up names.
Yeah, just like of Street Fighter and Double Dragon are both fighting games. Subgenres exist to differenciate games in the same genre, moron
>chest high wall-like
dodgeroller
>Top left
Shoot-em up
>Top right
Top down third person shooter
>Bottom left
First person shooter
>Bottom right
Over the shoulder third person shooter (Cover shooter)
In my case, I prefer top right styles of shooters since they offer a lot of freedom of movement and give out high information of the battlefield at all times. I would like games like top left, but I admittedly am not not very good at shoot-em ups
Left to right, top to bottom:
>bullet hell
>bullet heck
>bullet adjacent
>bullet hell deck builder idle game
if its procgen and turn based, its a roguelike. if its just random, or only some things are procgen, and its realtime, its a roguelite. simple as.
if you dont like it, you need to take your autism medication.
behold a roguelike
roguelites are basically modern arcade style games, endlessly replayable in short bursts
>thread is full of seething autists mad roguelike is used for more than 5 games that are carbon copy of each other
OP didn't lie
I'm never going to use "Roguelite". They're all Roguelikes.
fortnite is a roguelike
Rogue, like all boomer games, was shit compared to modern games. So the term "roguelike game" simply means "shit game".
>he thinks that games like minecraft and fortnite is better than skibbidi's adventure 5000
ok grandpa
if binding of isaac is a roguelike then call of duty is a doomclone
Roguelite is just a Roguelike plus player power increase between runs, simple as
Better question: why do autists feel the need to categorize absolutely everything?
>>this makes Ganker lose their mind
>OP was right
I thought we were better than this. How are you all falling for such obvious bait?
I enjoy the debate. On that note the same thread was posted earlier.
Been playing Shiren the wanderer 2 for the SNES, pretty fun, is the new game fun? Also, why is there so much porn of Shiren being fricked by monsters what the frick.
Mystery Dungeons somehow escaped the roguelike nomenclature while still playing more like Rogue than the rest that try to call themselves roguelikes.
Well, Shiren is as traditional as a roguelike can get, at least according to OP's image.
All mystery dingeon games are indeed traditional roguelikes.
They fit every definition to be considered roguelikes imo. If someone says they play MD, I can easily recommend them another roguelike by telling them that it works with the same silmutaneous turn system and top down grid, and they are likely to have a good time.
So here is a question that I don't tend to see asked often then. If most of the "roguelite" games that aren't like traditional rogue aren't roguelike, then what should be their defined genre then? If it's not rogue then what should it be referred to as? Cause at this point those games are so vast and varied that if "roguelike" doesn't work then a new term is needed.
theres a reason roguelite exists
for the games that aren't roguelikes
trying to force it any harder is just going to get backlash from brainlets
That doesn't make any sense or answer his question even.
it answers his question just fine
if its not LIKE rogue, then use rogue-LITE
That's like calling every shooter a doom-lite. That's moronic.
Its better than calling every shooter Doom
No it's better to call them shooters.
What are you trying to say? Those are shooters, not doomlites.
Procedurally/Randomly Generated Games
Too vague/not enough of an actual defining feature to properly define it without some extreme overlap between other genres.
twin stick shooter
platformer
run-based games.
So sonic-like?
Roguelike, it's the boomers that are the minority and should make a new term even if this was originally "theirs". Humans accept they can't fight the tide, autists seethe
Boomer genocide now.
What is a "Roguelike"? A miserable little pile of unmarked items! But enough talk, have some "Bullet Hell"!
if it doesn't play like rogue, then it's not a roguelike, it's that simple
listening to zoomers trying to redefine roguelike is like listening to trannies try to explain why they are technically women in some abstract philosophical way no one cares about
This. They're roguelikes, not roguelites. A troony is a troony, not a woman.
>brings trannies into the conversation for no reason
schizo detected, take your meds
>actually it's not a platformer unless a gorilla is throwing barrels at you
this is how stupid rogue purists sound
you can be correct and moronic at the same time
There are more Donkey Kong games that don't play like Donkey Kong than do
What defines a "roguelike" then according to you zoomers?
>actually it doesn't need to have jumping to be a platformer
That's basically what it is. Technically true, but you'd be very hard pressed to name platformers without jumping.
>you'd be very hard pressed to name platformers without jumping.
wait isn't this game the letter V five times
They only sound moronic to you because you haven't experienced your favorite genre being redefined by popular consensus.
The funny part is the first one is a touhou game but its mostly a SMT clone but with shmup segments during fights.
I'm gonna say it. Popular consensus is better than the opinion of a bunch of elitist, purist, try-hard, gate-keeping, pedantic, sweaty nerds. Old roguelikes suck. Modern roguelikes are good. Your genre would be dead if it weren't for modern roguelikes keeping the genre alive. You will die alone.
Well at least we know why Gacha games are so popular...
SEETHE. HARDER.
You've already lost. The definition has already been redefined by popular consensus. But keep wasting your precious time left on planet this arguing for a lost cause all you want, I'm not going to stop you.
I could not give less of a shit about a bunch of gender fluid queers and their half-assed take on a genre they couldn't put a picosecond of thought into.
I will bicker and argue over the proper rules until the end of my days, because I will not suffer disingenuous, pants-on-head moronic takes getting anywhere near my masochistic bullshit.
Fricking double digit IQ homosexualry. Yes I'm seething.
hehehe hes so mad lololol
Was mad. I'm a little better now that I had my temper tantrum.
Thank you.
bro get a life, go outside and take a breath of fresh air, go for a walk, chill out
>Popular consensus
intothetrashitgoes.gif
I'd rather get the opinion of the sweatiest nerd in existence than some normalgay or, worse yet, some journoscum. Why get the opinion of dishonest morons who don't care rather than the opinion of a honest nerd who cares a lot?
You are a moron. The game "Rogue" is not some abstract idea, it is a very real game that plays in a very particular way. I hope you get cancer and die within a year.
Spoken like a proper zoomer "just don't think bro, just let the masses decide what you're supposed to think". Total Black person cattle mentality.
Get prion disease.
>What's a platformer without platforms?
Imagine reaching so hard that even an infamous Bubsy quote is enough to btfo you
Why did you make me remember that fricking awful game. My parents got it for me for a birthday gift, and I absolutely hated every second of it.
>could have been another Ulillillia
>just became current (you) instead
How do you cope with that fact?
I have no understanding of what you are referring to.
The funny thing is "Rogue" Legacy is a platformer, so stop calling it roguelike. It already has a genre name.
Does someone knows the roguelike game (I think???). About a e-girl trying to play Her debts???
Berlin Interpretation has been around for 15 or so years.
Why is this still debated?
because berlin interpretation is made by morons and far too vague
It's not vague as far as defining the factors themselves, at least to me. The only bullshit portion is it implying that some, not all, major factors are sufficient. Which is dumb. It needs to be all or nothing.
Because the berlin interpretation is in fact, moronic.
Because the berlin interpretation has always been moronic.
1. As the other anons posted, the Berlin Interpretation is moronic.
2. The Berlin Interpretation self-acknowledges that it is moronic, because none of their factors are rules. According to its own statements, a rougelike is only MORE like rogue with the elements, and it is not unlike rogue if it is missing a few, with no specifications.
The fact that it gets brought up in these threads shows that morons either don't read or are pretending to be moronic on purpose.
if it's not like rogue it's not a roguelike
this is very simple and yet some lose their minds over it
Traditional roguelikes should just be called rogueclones as they attempt to copy Rogue's formula exactly. Games like BoI are only 'like' Rogue, and therefore can be comfortably called roguelikes.
You know I'm right. Only your autism stands in opposition.
ok then OPclone
That is however patently wrong as seen by the mystery dungeon series which are perfectly traditional roguelike yet never attempt to copy rogue.
>never attempt to copy rogue
they do though, just look at those rooms-and-corridors random dungeon floors
>make a platformer
>compare the game to a turn-based game played on a grid
I would go to jail for several years if I could end your life
>words words words
k
but do it play like rogue
Most of the Rogue-humping homosexuals ITT have never even played the game.
You know who did play it? Nobody.
Nobody played that nerd shit.
A couple developer nerds mentioned it as an inspiration for games they made, then their aspie nerd fanboys ran with it until it was a meme.
>Most of the Rogue-humping homosexuals ITT have never even played the game.
it's pretty shit but there are plenty of good games that learned from it like nethack, angband, dcss, qud, sil
Notice how nobody is refuting this? lol lmao rofl kek
no need to refute an admission of ignorance
So? We've played lots of roguelikes. The point was never "Rogue is a masterpiece".
Why does it need to be refuted?
I played the DOS version of Rogue on a Tandy 1000 back in the late 80s through early 90s.
Probably never got further than a couple floors, since I was around 5 years old at the time.
>You know who did play it? Nobody.
>Nobody played that nerd shit.
Berlin Interpretation was created in 2008, long before the influx of zoomshit top-down shooters and platformers calling themselves roguelikes. If only they knew what was to come.
the zoomshit stuff is pretty great thougheverbiet
I agree, its just not a roguelike.
a lot of these zoomie games are pretty good, going back to the replayable arcade roots of vidya instead of moronic AAA moviegames
but if you want an autistic alphabet game they make it hard to searchf or one
>Berlin Interpretation was created in 2008
>long before the influx of platformers calling themselves roguelikes
>Spelunky released: December 21, 2008
>long before
>long before
>long before
okay moron
>ONE LITERAL WHO GAME REDEFINED THE ENTIRE SERIES!!!!
Hate to break it to you but spelunky was barely a blip on the radar until the recent steam remakes. Then again most freeware games Ganker enjoyed were basically major unknowns until phonegays invaded every corner of the internet years ago.
I'm still sometimes surprised there are people here who have never heard of 'Within a Deep Forerst'...
Spelunky alone overshadowed the entire Roguelike genre basically overnight, to imply otherwise would intellectually dishonest. But you're probably just moronic. Besides that, The Binding of Isaac released a few short years later, in 2011. So your argument is shit anyway.
A La Mulanalike, daring.
derek actually has a great descriptor of the game here. la mulana meets nethack is exactly what spelunky is. but you couldn't put that on a steam page description because normies haven't played either of those.
STFU Derek, La mulana is a puzzle game. Spelunky and it plays completely different.
>game is neither rogue nor la mulana
how did one man frick up SO HARD
autism
Nobody ever fricking called spelunky a roguelike in 2008 or 2012 when it actually got popular on xbla. At best they mention roguelike features or elements, which is exactly what every zoomer itt should say instead of just "roguelike".
Hey you, learn to read.
It was called a roguelike in 2008. Cry harder.
no it wasn't moron
read the post you claim others should read
I think the post is implying it's inspired and influenced by roguelikes, not that it is itself a roguelike.
Actual rogue is okay. Good to try out at least a couple times.
do you know what influx means
ITT: casualgays angry that some people want words to be used properly
>Theyre objectively incorrect
>brag about how it's actually good and based to be completely wrong
This shit is sincerely hilarious
modern roguelikes, especially action roguelikes and deck builders, are many times more difficult than old school roguelikes. i've played both.
>are many times more difficult than old school roguelikes
list them. because most of them arent going to surpass @DOM, Nethack, Angband, etc. in terms of length, and constant challenges you have to deal with in those lengths.
>list them
>Noita
>Wildfrost
>FTL: Faster Than Light
>The Binding of Isaac: Repentance
>Astrea: Six-Sided Oracles
That's just off the top of my head. I can list more if you'd like.
which one of them plays like rogue
now to explain to me how any of those are more challenging than @DOM, a game that can take up to 20 to 30 hours to beat with no persistent progress.
very cool, doesn't change anything about using definitions improperly even if what you said weren't fabrication
What do you think of the classic roguelike, Snake?
>What do you think of the classic roguelike, Snake?
>roguelike?
Okay, do you want to jerk off to your self-awarded gold star? You can make an even harder game "guess a number between 1 and a million, you get 1 try". That's still not a roguelike.
Nobody ever played Rogue, of course no one can explain.
>ask what games are LIKE Rogue
>only Rogue is described
every time
Several games that are roguelikes or that can be argued to be roguelikes were described, from Mystery Dungeon games to Crypt of the Necrodancer.
>crypt of the necrodancer
>roguelike
lmao ok zoomer
>Several games [...] that can be argued to be roguelikes were described
Learn2read
DCSS
you didn't really think this was a clever thing to say did you
soulslike and roguelike are probably the most abused terms
Rpg had its fair share of abuse over the years too.
True, I don't even know what the frick an RPG is anymore
A game that has either numbers or an MP bar (see: Bioshock)
THE NOOMBERS ON THE SCREEN ARE GOING UP!!!
this discussion is about as gay as the homosexuals that argue over the five trillion genres of what is all just electronic music
>he cant tell the difference between house and drum and bass
Black person what the frick is liquid downtempo
That one's pretty easy.
any game that describes itself as a "roguelite" is guaranteed to be some unfun bullshit for autists
Tome4 is a good game and I'm tired of pretending it's not.
Am I the only one who just can't enjoy roguelikes without some sort of additional progression system like a skill tree?
I know Binding of Isaac, Spelunky, and Dead Cells are amazing games, but in those, I always feel demotivated after a long run--as if I wasted my time. When I played Rogue Legacy, at least I had a lot of currency I could spend on purchasing permanent upgrades after a long run.
I know the point is that your own skills improve with each run, but that just isn't tangible enough for me.
>make a thread about actual roguelikes
>gets a max of 10 replies then dies
>make a thread about a roguelite and call it roguelike
>the roguelike name spergs all come out and flood the thread with shitflinging
funny
I intentionally misuse the term everywhere I can along with tagging games on steam as roguelike in order to keep the cycle flowing. it's great how much people feel obligated to speak out in instances like these
>mspaint breasts covered in text
hot
Is there any other genre of gaming that has 80% of discussion being about what the definition of their genre is instead of the actual videogames related to that genre?
The modern zoomer definition of roguelike is useless at defining a genre. Pretty much any kind of game can be made into their version of a roguelike. It's even worse than shooter at being useful in any way for or shape.
Play Infra Arcana, the only survival horror roguelike I've ever enjoyed.
No XP for killing monsters, you have every incentive to get away from them, you can jam doors behind you, lots more unique stuff. Its free.
Video games.
Pick what I should play next in tome Ganker.
Temporal warden.
Using the term rogue-like is not like using the term Souls-like… Change my mind
People who complain about the terms just do so to shit up threads, they perfectly understand the difference, it's just an easy way of shitposting when they don't have the means or knowledge to attack a game.
And notice that it's the hardcore Berlin Interpretation autists that are shitting up the roguelite threads. They're just permanently seething that roguelites even exist.
have any of you guys played Death Roads - Tournament
it's a neat little roguelite deckbuilder. think mad max meets slay the spire meets FTL.
Autism the thread
For me? It's Rogue-like.
what would you name the genre of randomized perma death games meant to be played in multiple runs if not roguelike?
roguelite
>what would you name a firm, waxy tasting, faintly library-smelling crayon?
i dunno
the fricking color of it?
if its a platformer with memedeath, its a fricking platformer
with memedeath
>name all crayons green
good idea
>name all crayons based on an attribute that isn't vital to its function or purpose
yes, hand me my crayon
the one that tastes bitter
your example doesn't work because it amounts to
>what should we name a CRAYON?
you just said the name
roguelikes/lites or whatever the frick you want to call them have enough interest to warrant having a genre so just outright removing it would hinder people interested in that type of system but i guess a game having multiple genres is too much for you
>i dunno
>the fricking color of it?
your GAME is a PLATFORMER, with some elements people think are exclusive to ROGUE
your CRAYON is RED, with some elements that taste like COUGH SYRUP
AKA you want to just blanket out the genre and make it harder to find these specific types of games
>and make it harder to find these specific types of games
And you're doing the same thing
Imagine trying to search for a game that plays literally Like Rogue and all you get is page after page of
then change the genre name, not just outright delete it
Fricking anything. Do you consider Siralim a roguelike - it's not. Do you consider Issac like rogue? It isn't. FTL? Spelunky? Not even close niggy.
>start playing Brogue
>get filtered near instantly
Roguelike gods...I KNEEL
>roguelikelitelikelitelike-em-up
My favorite crayon flavor is blue.
You fricking moron.
Browngay detected.
>visit Ganker for the first time in over a decade
I see you're still arguing apples vs pears.
Indeed, it is shocking some people insist we call apples, pears.
darkwood on hard (three lives) or nightmare (1 life) is a true rogueliKe
Imagine being a real shmup fan and trying to scroll through steam looking at what they call shmups
Is rogue a roguelike
Shut the frick up.
It's actually a Snipes-lite
I'm not deleting the term roguelike. It's already in use to describe games that play Like Rogue
You're the idiot that wants to call platformers roguelikes.
A platformer can be a roguelike, just not a traditional one.
A crayon can be multiple colors at once.
>A platformer can be a roguelike
BEHOLD, A MAN
You're attempting to attribute a laundry list of pointless bullshit to describe two things very distinct from eachother.
And for this rogue-lite is the closest you will get. Because neither play Like Rogue.
mario with random worlds does not make a roguelike
>mario with random worlds does not make a roguelike
the point isn't the name but clearly your reading comp is lacking
Man IS a featherless biped. Not all featherless bipeds are necessarily men.
a Man is a featherless biped
an AS7-D Atlas is a featherless biped
a Roguelike can have Permadeath
a Platformer can have Permadeath
an Atlas is not Man, but may have some features of one
a Platformer is not Rogue, but may have some features of one
>BT out of nowhere
I still haven't read past first proper invasion of the clans. Comstar sound fun on paper but seeing the President of Space America LARP as a knight while coping them into a radical insurgency just pulled me right out of it.
>You're the idiot that wants to call platformers roguelikes
no, i just want it to be clear and easy to identify a game by its genre
you can instantly tell the difference of a "roguelike platformer" and "platformer" by name alone
>Reverse bullet hells
Now I'm curious
That's just shit like Issac, Noita, Risk of Rain, Survivors where your character eventually gets so much shit that they're the ones spewing five million bullets.
>real time
>permadeath
>esoteric unfair systems
>randomised character creation
Is real life a roguelite?
Roguelikes aren't real time so no.
>lite
yeah
he said lite bro
simple
On the off chance someone in this thread wants to try to get their feet wet with traditional roguelikes instead of just shitpost, try DoomRL.
OP really just dangled obvious bait in front of all of you and created enough seething to power the Sun. You're all pathetic. Go outside, go for a walk, or better yet a jog. Go socialize with real people. Go read a book.
Too busy playing roguelikes for that lame shit
Roguelikes like, whichever definition you use. Go outside and touch grass.
Roguelikes are ass*
heh
No one cares about this autistic differentiation
Also no one likes playing the games on the right
People just say "roguelike" as an umbrella term for the games that fit the criteria in the middle
>using nerd as a pejorative on the Ganker videogame board