Every good MMO uses the holy trinity. Your moronic hipster MMO buried in the bowels of Steam that gloats about being unique and letting you do whatever you want instead of falling into roles only has 100 active players for a reason, Chung-Ho.
2 years ago
Anonymous
All MMORPGs are the same, just different labels. They all use the same basic engine, have the same problems, the same lag problems, the same homosexualry, the same shitty gameplay. They appeal only to people who have no lives. The genre stagnated more than 90s FPS games did.
2 years ago
Anonymous
They're also the only kind of game where fighting three enemies at once is a frustrating experience.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Only if you don't know what you're doing.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The trinity is shit and extremely flawed. Only a monumental clueless idiot with not even a basic grasp of system design would think otherwise.
The nicest thing you can say about it is that it dumbs things down.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I guarantee you don't know shit about game design would not be able to defend your position with a coherent argument.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Uh huh. It's not like I work as a systems designer and study it daily while you keep on shitposting here while accusing people you don't even know of knowing nothing about system design simply because they said something you don't like.
I'm sure you can totally break down why it's such a flawless system that nothing can top in a fashion similar to that of a game designer would do. From PEG to UX.
2 years ago
Anonymous
It's not a flawless system. I know there are other possibilities to trinity. But unlike you, I know why. From your post, I conclude that you know absolute jack shit about systems design and have nothing interesting to say.
Why aren't there traits like speech/charisma in mmos? Would be interesting if for example a bard could specialize more into the social aspect and have it affect gameplay. Like walking up to the boss and talk before a fight, giving the party an opening advantage. Or convincing a defeated boss to lend a hand against the final boss. Would be neat.
Speech is always a dumb skill that winds up mindless even in single player games that don't have to scale out and be consistently balanced and challenging across thousands of player-hours and charisma has been used to affect things like charm spells.
Something like faction works better. You can do quests and grind to have good relationships with npcs and gain benefits that way. Or even start out favorable but there's some gameplay challenge involved in leveraging their aid. Speech skills rarely add anything interesting.
speech was done really well in the first couple fallouts
your intelligence and charisma would unlock additional options with characters throughout the game that felt natural, but if you used intelligence as a dump stat so you could pump up your strength and toughness instead, hoo boy. at an intelligence of one you were literally a non-verbal moron. 99% of the people you met would be like "hey, good to meet you!" "huhhuhh uh uh" "alrighty then. frick off now, little buddy". sidequests were mostly impossible because everyone would either start talking to you like you were an infant or call you an idiot to your face and tell you to frick off. my first run through the game after creating a strong lout was both shocking and hilarious.
Yeah the problem is the scale of an MMO. MMOs are played for hundreds of hours and the gameplay is dominated by combat. Permanent build-time commitments have to be carefully considered, especially if they involve combat vs non-combat tradeoffs. > sidequests were mostly impossible
Yeah this is one of those things that seem funny at first blush but quickly devolve into metagaming where you're rewarded for knowing the game-specific implemented consequences of low/high intelligence rather than a more generally predictable relationships like strength and damage. And this is even worse an an MMO because: > my first run through the game
MMOs aren't designed to be 'run through' they are designed to be played perpetually.
Basically, if you really want to have build-time decisions affect the kinds of quests available and how NPCs respond to you, there are better ways than some kind of global bonus. Class, race, religion, even language or starting city can work much better because you can have balanced tradeoffs-- and also more easily present obstacles to be overcome rather than just a hard block. If people won't talk to you because you're a moron, that's hard to fix short of some contrived magical shit. If humans won't talk to you because you're a dark elf necromancer, maybe you can earn their trust somehow.
I can only speak for single player RPGs. I always found MMOs to be little more than multiplayer "cookie clicker", so none of that matters to me.
MMOs are more of a min/maxxer kind of thing. Those guys are fricking annoying. Not that they don't occasionally produce something fun to see, but dealing with their incessant inability to enjoy anything that doesn't make an arbitrary number click up is just, awful.
I like the role playing shit in the games. I'd rather play an RPG where you're permanently a normal human winding your way between the god-powered members of various factions than try to figure out the right way to collect the dragon balls from the dragon anuses and summon shen-ron to bump my to hit by an additional percent.
<- Counterpoint
Single player games aren't trapped by the trinity
I was talking about the "undebatable" part.
Undertale isn't a part of the debate because it's not an MMO
Suck my dick, you said >RPG boss is literally undebatable and your image is only found in cookie-cutter RPGs like WoW and FF14
Every good MMO uses the holy trinity. Your moronic hipster MMO buried in the bowels of Steam that gloats about being unique and letting you do whatever you want instead of falling into roles only has 100 active players for a reason, Chung-Ho.
All MMORPGs are the same, just different labels. They all use the same basic engine, have the same problems, the same lag problems, the same homosexualry, the same shitty gameplay. They appeal only to people who have no lives. The genre stagnated more than 90s FPS games did.
They're also the only kind of game where fighting three enemies at once is a frustrating experience.
Only if you don't know what you're doing.
The trinity is shit and extremely flawed. Only a monumental clueless idiot with not even a basic grasp of system design would think otherwise.
The nicest thing you can say about it is that it dumbs things down.
I guarantee you don't know shit about game design would not be able to defend your position with a coherent argument.
Uh huh. It's not like I work as a systems designer and study it daily while you keep on shitposting here while accusing people you don't even know of knowing nothing about system design simply because they said something you don't like.
I'm sure you can totally break down why it's such a flawless system that nothing can top in a fashion similar to that of a game designer would do. From PEG to UX.
It's not a flawless system. I know there are other possibilities to trinity. But unlike you, I know why. From your post, I conclude that you know absolute jack shit about systems design and have nothing interesting to say.
>OP is a gigantic gay.
>First post is even worse
ABANDON THREAD!
nobody plays RPGs to have debates with the bosses, despite what gamebook gays will try to claim.
Why aren't there traits like speech/charisma in mmos? Would be interesting if for example a bard could specialize more into the social aspect and have it affect gameplay. Like walking up to the boss and talk before a fight, giving the party an opening advantage. Or convincing a defeated boss to lend a hand against the final boss. Would be neat.
Speech is always a dumb skill that winds up mindless even in single player games that don't have to scale out and be consistently balanced and challenging across thousands of player-hours and charisma has been used to affect things like charm spells.
Something like faction works better. You can do quests and grind to have good relationships with npcs and gain benefits that way. Or even start out favorable but there's some gameplay challenge involved in leveraging their aid. Speech skills rarely add anything interesting.
speech was done really well in the first couple fallouts
your intelligence and charisma would unlock additional options with characters throughout the game that felt natural, but if you used intelligence as a dump stat so you could pump up your strength and toughness instead, hoo boy. at an intelligence of one you were literally a non-verbal moron. 99% of the people you met would be like "hey, good to meet you!" "huhhuhh uh uh" "alrighty then. frick off now, little buddy". sidequests were mostly impossible because everyone would either start talking to you like you were an infant or call you an idiot to your face and tell you to frick off. my first run through the game after creating a strong lout was both shocking and hilarious.
Yeah the problem is the scale of an MMO. MMOs are played for hundreds of hours and the gameplay is dominated by combat. Permanent build-time commitments have to be carefully considered, especially if they involve combat vs non-combat tradeoffs.
> sidequests were mostly impossible
Yeah this is one of those things that seem funny at first blush but quickly devolve into metagaming where you're rewarded for knowing the game-specific implemented consequences of low/high intelligence rather than a more generally predictable relationships like strength and damage. And this is even worse an an MMO because:
> my first run through the game
MMOs aren't designed to be 'run through' they are designed to be played perpetually.
Basically, if you really want to have build-time decisions affect the kinds of quests available and how NPCs respond to you, there are better ways than some kind of global bonus. Class, race, religion, even language or starting city can work much better because you can have balanced tradeoffs-- and also more easily present obstacles to be overcome rather than just a hard block. If people won't talk to you because you're a moron, that's hard to fix short of some contrived magical shit. If humans won't talk to you because you're a dark elf necromancer, maybe you can earn their trust somehow.
I can only speak for single player RPGs. I always found MMOs to be little more than multiplayer "cookie clicker", so none of that matters to me.
MMOs are more of a min/maxxer kind of thing. Those guys are fricking annoying. Not that they don't occasionally produce something fun to see, but dealing with their incessant inability to enjoy anything that doesn't make an arbitrary number click up is just, awful.
I like the role playing shit in the games. I'd rather play an RPG where you're permanently a normal human winding your way between the god-powered members of various factions than try to figure out the right way to collect the dragon balls from the dragon anuses and summon shen-ron to bump my to hit by an additional percent.