Should modern RPGs be turn based, real time based, or real time with pause based?
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Should modern RPGs be turn based, real time based, or real time with pause based?
Should modern RPGs be turn based, real time based, or real time with pause based?
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Do you want either money, or to make a good game? Then definitely not rtwp
turn-based is boring no matter what bullshit argument you use to defend it.
That's because somehow no one has ever done them correctly. They're supposed to be little puzzles that change and adapt to your strategies that you need to solve as quickly and efficiently as possible.
nope you are both moronic
So you'd rather have uninspired janky and/ or broken combat but be entertained in a manner not so different from a toddler watching a koi pond?
Idk, I'd rather have combat that's finely dialed in, consistent, structured, and dependable, and have the satisfaction of crushing anything after some good ol fashioned grinding
WILL THE REAL SLIM SHADY PLEASE STAND UP
slay the spire and other rouglikes do turn based way better than your dogshit jrpg
frick you
get raped by a pack of n words
only adhd zoomers can't appreciate all kinds of combat system
It’s really only boring if you’re the kind of dude who scoffs at reading, thinking, and strategy.
>the kind of dude who scoffs at reading, thinking, and strategy
Its Ganker, you are allowed to say morons
There's a lot of reading thinking and strategy involved in posting on Ganker so what are the 'morons' doing here?
Actually this.
No one gives 2 fricks about that chinese bot and shill campaign they call a game.
>Anno Domini MMXXIII
Why are twittergays like this
TYOOL is just as gay and used on Ganker.
Old Ganker used to use fun ways to refer to stuff but none of you would remember that, in fact if you saw it you would call it "reddit" like you have been for the past 10 years.
ok reddit
DA:O and XVI already solved this and no one wants to admit it
>XVI
0/10, frick off
Different games should do different things, to act like games should only do one is moronic. More variety is good, ideally all types of RPG get good entries.
>Turn BASED
>real time
>real time with pause
In this order
RPGs can have any sort of combat system you want. Don't feel limited to different flavors of DnD and DnD derivatives.
I think more RPGs should use racing games for combat. Just abstract it out enough that the player understands they're not actually racing against the goblins you're just using racing as a metaphor for combat.
They should be all of the above and let the players choose. Lazy ass developers.
why does josh sawyer sound so butthurt about bg3? doesn't the dude have microsoft money?
His dream game was to make BG3, he worked on IWD and finally stepped into the director's chair for BG3, but in 2003 black isle went under and his BG3 was canceled soon after starting development. He spent half his life malding over this, apparently to him this game was going to be his magnum opis. This stype of CRPG died for awhile instead moving onto stuff like Mass Effect which blended CRPGs with shooters. But he held out hope that he could bring CRPGs back so he started a kickstarter to revive the genre. Pillars of Eternity was the result. He was hoping it was going to be so successful he could get the DnD license make his BG3. Instead Wizards of the Coast gave BG3 to Larian because Divinity Original Sin was far more popular than Pillars of Eternity. Josh can't get over this and passive aggressively seethes about it daily. In a way its his life's dream dying for a second time. This time without the ability to fix it, back when it was canned in 2003 he still had hope he could make a BG3 by first reviving the CRPG then making BG3, but now that BG3 exists and is widely beloved and acclaimed he can never make BG3.
Damn this looks much better than the bg3 than we got.
You're full of shit. The project was named "Baldur's Gate 3" ONLY because Black Isle retained rights to the title alone, and couldn't develop any Forgotten Realms games outside that brand.
how does that contradict anything that he said?
Because most of the plot points from his "dream BG3" were already used back in Mask of the Betrayer. He made a fictional scenario up, and didn't fact check.
That's really sad wtf.
The good guy was out there but money talked so they picked the safe cheap turn-based option for guaranteed profit.
Oh well, there's always NWN3 or Planescape 2.
PoE was not only unpopular, it was mediocre, wotc for once made the correct choice
josh sawyer could've made a better game but he did not
Its not sad, Larian's BG3 is better than anything Sawyer would have made.
I dunno, we'll have to see what the modding scene is like for BG3 in the long run. I like BG3 alot but I think I like modded NV just a smidge more. Larian needs to release modding tools already.
If Larian releases mod tools and they're good and easy to use and fans start remaking BG1/2 IWD ect in BG3s engine I'll probably keep playing BG3 for the rest of my life.
even fanmade modules like the neverwinter games would be pretty rad. shame how NWN1 was like the first and last game to really facilitate player driven content.
Can't wait for Dances with Rogues BG3 edition.
It's sad for him certainly, but considering how pillars turned out I kinda doubt his bg3 would be very good
apparently he hates waifus or something, and BG3 has lots of sex.
>“I did not think that it was going to flop,” said Josh Sawyer, the studio design director at a competitor, Obsidian Entertainment, and the lead designer on Fallout: New Vegas and Pillars of Eternity. “I did not think that it was going to be niche niche. But it was hard for me to see the return on the investment.”
He even sounds butthurt in his quote for NYT's BG3 article. As an aside, I like to imagine Josh perking up at seeing an email from the New York Times, only to find it was asking for a quote on the success of BG3. It cheers me up from time to time.
Turn based is good if the ai has simultaneous turns. BG3 probably has the worst type of turn based where everyone attacks one at a time.
The masses prefer skippable combat with heavy cutscenes. That being said the developer should use whichever combat system they're are comfortable using.
>should modern RPGs be blah blah blah based?
well i would hope theyre based yes
RPG is a very broad genre and I've enjoyed all three so I wouldn't make any rules about it.
rtwp is terrible on controller
thats literally where the story ends
good
frick consolegays
RTwP induces worse encounter design than turn-based and brings nothing of value in exchange
good turn based games are
> "good gamed in spite of the turn based nature"
not because of it being turn based.
turn based is at most a middling field. it's never a selling point
Fully turn-based or fully an action-RPG. Any in-between always fricking sucks.
Modern RPGs should stop making shitty tabletop games into video games. RTwP is way better than TB if it's not constrained by an awful TTRPG ruleset.
for me it's turn based with pause
Real time action or turn based, none of those moronic middle grounds.
BG3 mindraped him
>ARPG
>only control 1 character at a time
>have to rely on the computer/AI to not make moronic choices
>could beat whole game only knowing 1 person
>Turn Based
>have to know every character and all their moves
>have to know what to use and when
>in control of every character 100% of the time
>no computer/AI control
ARPG is for BRAIN DEAD moronS. "ohh muh combos! muh button presses!" the fact that games have become more slop over the years and ARPG's are more popular now should tell you everything you need to know
Infinite Wealth made me finally believe JRPGs merged with action could be done right. QTE presses to do bonus damage and guarding, positioning mattering, knockback damage, combos etc. The story of the game's a letdown as a fan of the series, but the gameplay is extremely satisfying.
The crap Square Enix is trying to pull with recent Final Fantasies doesn't even come close, but I think they're going the wrong way, trying to add JRPG elements to action games instead of the other way around.
>yakuza shit
crazy how this garbage only sold 1 million while being on 5 platforms. Rebirth will mog the living frick out of it
>Rebirth will mog the living frick out of it
In sales? Of course. But will it be a better game?
>But will it be a better game?
yes
might makes right
sales = better game
Rebirth is a brand new game built from the ground up while this recent Yakuzaslop is literally the same thing recycled over and over every single year for the past 20 years.
What do you think is the better game?
>What do you think is the better game?
Yakuza by a mile, who gives a shit if assets are recycled if at the end of the day the game of all fun and enjoyable. Developers waste too much time and effort creating a whole lot of needless shine that leaves a game being banal. Regardless of genre Yakuza games are video games as hell in the good ol boomer days.
A load of games have already done this and I’m surprised you haven’t played them
more like
>ARPG
>constant stream of split second decisions that can decide whether you live or die
>need to plan your strategy far in advance because midcombat you can only do quick tactical choice
>brain like mariana trench
>Turn Based
>attack, heal, that one debuff, maybe resummon a pet.
>uh it's actually about the story and metaphors
>no romance options no buy
>brain so smooth thoughts slide right off
more like
>real time
>just hit x a bunch of times until all enemies are dead
>only control 1 character
it's for the midwits like you who think you're smart but aren't
stream of split second decisions that can decide whether you live or die
Less than 1% of games are actually difficult enough to qualify for that
>ARPG is for BRAIN DEAD moronS. "ohh muh combos! muh button presses!" the fact that games have become more slop over the years and ARPG's are more popular now should tell you everything you need to know
Actually turn based RPGs are for journos, women and old people.
>have to know every character and all their moves
But you are not constrained by time so how is it a problem? You could just read it at any moment.
>in control of every character 100% of the time
But you have infinite time to think so how is it harder?
>no computer/AI control
Doesn't it make easier though?
I honestly couldn't get into ffxv because of how mindless the combat was,
I prefer real-time games, but every game that has both real-time and turn-based options feels like complete shit in real-time and plays 100x better as turn-based.
If you're going to do real-time, you need to fully commit and build your entire gameplay/combat system around it, not just be "turn-based, but with invisible timers on everything."
turn based feels like the best way to express rpg systems and that hasnt changed
it is if you're moronic
>Should modern RPGs be turn based, real time based, or real time with pause based?
Whatever works best for the type of gameplay their aiming for.
There isn't a "one standard fits all RPGs"
Turn based games should die24 years ago. The only exception being Civilization series
>Anno Domini MMXXIII
What a dumb gay. Also more players prefer Larian TB combat. I'm sure that if our boy Josh made a turn based game, it would have abysmal sales. Not all turn based games are made the same.
rtwp is just worse for party based rpgs. it's just a fact. some rpgs tried to automate commands for party members, but it's still a bad work-around. the only time rtwp is superior, is when there's a lot of trash fights and rtwp resolves fights faster
do what oldschool runescape does
Runescape is turn based. Every turn is 1 tick and it's always running.
give me both or give me death
turn-based for harder fights where you might need the extra time
RTwP for steamrolling scrubs
>give me both or give me death
But that's pretty much the entire point about RTWP in the first place. Being able to pause during intense fights, but keep it running real time during trash mobs.
it's very entertaining how Sawyer still seethes at Larian/DOS2 for killing Deadfire
I don't have an issue with RTwP, but I bet most people pause so often playing that it might as well have been turn based.
For me a major part of the fun of RTWP is making a party and tactics solid enough that it sort of plays on auto pilot through most encounters.
It's probably boring to the average zoomer which is why they hate RTWP, but I really like the management and simulation aspects that it brings.
If by tactics you mean buffing and then autoattacking, I guess
Partially, but also stuff like
>at 20% health, use heal
>if attacked by ranged enemy, used ranged stun ability on attacker
>activate X buff if more than 2 mages are present
Granted not a lot of RTWP games actually allow you to get that specific, but even the simpler ones are still usually pretty fun with trying to figure out what skills and classes works best for the player controlled character vs the AI ones and so on.
DA:O is probably up there, granted it's a bit on the simpler side, Dungeon Siege is great if you want to manage a large party that is on auto pilot.
Stay away from Pillars of Eternity, I like a lot of the aspects of the game as a whole, but the combat is very micromanage heavy to the point where it often just gets tedious. I think when you say RTWP a lot of people imagine PoE and write off the style as a whole.
FFXII is the only RTWP game I've ever played. Any other kinos?
Prescriptivism should be a bannable offense here
>make role playing game
>release DLC that removes the roles and the playing
hahaha you can't make this up
But plenty of RPG's had had combined real time and turn based modes?
We just had this thread (i btfo'd all of you turn based chuds)
All options are fine, just make the game good.
how about devs do whatever the frick they want?
stop pandering to what you think people want, and make what YOU wanna play
I like turn based and real time, but not real time with pause, rtwp FEELS (imo) like you're either forced to pause every half second to hold the ai's hand or you just set up the team and the abilities and it becomes an auto battler
Turn based and real time with pause are fricking trash that should have stayed in the 2000s.
RPG's should always be turn based. RTWP is fricking dog shit, and real time isn't an RPG anymore, it's an action game.
Unfortunately all games are getting "poz" in real time.
>Should modern RPGs be based, based, or real based?
Yes
I don't care as long as the game is good. I've never slept on a good game because of its meta-genre, because I'm not a semen slurping zoomer queerbag.
Real time with pause was never good unless you count fallout 3 and New Vegas because of the vats system.
RTWP is my preference but it really depends on the game.
All of them.
RPG System should be as diverse as they can.
TB, RTB and RTWP are all good if handled correctly.
>RPG System should be as diverse as they can.
>rpg systems should be unfocused messes
Diversity is our weakness
Anyone suggesting BG3 should be real time is moronic and/or has never even bothered to watch gameplay of it. It would be fricking unplayable real time
BG3 would have been 100000% more fun if it was real time like the original games.
I think turn based is just better than RTwP.
If you have a fight where you have to constantly pause to attack, cast spells, change targets move people around etc. then you're essentially playing it like it's turn based: pause and execute your moves, wait to see see what the enemy does to react, pause and react to what they do, wait to see how it plays out, pause again. etc.
If you're in a fight that you can solve by not pausing at all and just pre-buff (if even that) then you're fighting a trash mob. And. those fights are never memorable or fun, you just slog through them to get to the good stuff.
So then why not just make it turn based and work on your encounter design so each fight is fun to play.
If it's not real time, it's for morons and non-gamers.
Which is why they would never add real time to BG3 because it would just show casuals how inferior they are to us.
Didn't Larian literally do that with Divinity OS but in the other direction? They made it turn based because everyone prefers it.
All older 3rd person CRPGs were real time except like Fallout and Wasteland.
They were all made turn-based in the modern sequels because it's easier to make a turn-based game. Real-time systems programming requires the kind of experience most modern devs just don't have because they are all webdevs basically.
>Real-time systems programming requires the kind of experience most modern devs just don't have
What is this schizo rambling
Turn-Based and Grid Style reduce the complexity of the game's State making it easier to reason about. If the whole world stands still it's alot easier to design a skill because you don't have to then figure out what happens in the 50 different possible sequences of events that can exists.
Parallel and distributed programming are well known as being an order of magnitude harder because of the extra problems that the aspect of ordering adds to execution.
Initiative is inherently tied to combat "starting" at a specific point. So initiative in real time would need to do something when an enemy detects you or when you detect an enemy. I've seen games where time slows down when you are detected giving you time to strike first.
Turn-based is the only proper way to translate stats and skills such as Speed or Evasion into gameplay.
Speed can just make you move and attack faster.
Morrowind did it
Fricking Warcraft III had it.
But your moronic ass somehow can't fathom it
>can just
Yeah, real big brain stuff there.
How about Initiative?
Is this a tencent bot making these threads?
it's eric so yeah, a tencent bot
>"i cant into a game because it filters me"
hearty kek
MODERN RPGS NEED A CAMPAIGN EDITOR
I DON'T CARE ABOUT THIS moronic FORCE AUTISM BULLSHIT ABOUT HOW YOU PRESS THE SPACE KEY
I NEED TILESETS, DM MODE, CUSTOM CAMPAIGNS, VERSION MODES, MAPS, CUSTOMIZABLE TILESETS, IMPORTABLE TILESETS, SEAMLESS WORLD TRANSITION, CELLS I DON'T CARE SHUT UP
SHUT UP
SHUT UP
SHUT THE FRICK UP
I'M SICK OF THIS
22 YEARS AND AURORA TOOLSET IS STILL THE BEST FOR CUSTOM D&D CAMPAIGNS, NWN IS STILL THE BEST FOR ONE AND DONE CRPG MODULES, BUT IT'S STUCK IN 3.0 HELL
SHUT THE FRICK UP ABOUT YOUR moronic BALLGAG YOU CALL A FRICKING PAUSE BUTTON
YOU'RE EATING OUT OF LARIAN'S ASS? YOU BARELY EVEN HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO USE THEIR SETTING BECAUSE THEIR TOOLSET IS FRICKING MID BUT AT LEAST THEY DID ONE
OWLCAT AND PATHFINDER? FRICK THEM, THEY HAVE THE GOLDEN GOOSE FOR ISOMETRIC TABLETOP TOOLSETS AND THEY'RE HOLDING BACK, THEY'RE SCARED OF GIVING US A TOOLSET BECAUSE PEOPLE WOULD DO CUSTOM CAMPAIGNS WITHOUT THE FORCED MANAGEMENT AUTISM RUSSIANS LOVE
JOSH SAWYER? PILLARS? GET THE FRICK OUT OF HERE. ANOTHER SETTING UNDERUSED BECAUSE THESE homosexualS DIDN'T GIVE US ADVENTURE EDITORS AND A BOOK OR TEN OF THEIR SETTINGS TO NURTURE IT. YEAH, EOTHAS BROKE THE FUKCING WHEEL NOW WHAT? I'M WAITING, 6 YEARS AND COUNTING. I WOULD ENJOY FILLER CONTENT IF IT HAD A FRICKING MAP EDITOR, ISLAND EDITOR YOU FRICKING FREAKS
STOP SLOBBERING OVER A FRICKING PAUSE BUTTON AND OPEN YOUR EYES THEY NEED TO SELL A FRICKING GAME WITH A MAP EDITOR. YOUR FRICKING TRIBAL ASSWIPES ARE A CACOPHONY OF DIARRHEA, SHUT THE FRICK UP AND WORRY ABOUT BALDUR'S GATE 3 DYING AND BG4 COMING OUT IN LIKE 62 YEARS, WITH ALL THAT HIGH QUALITY MENU, SKILL HOTKEYS, SPELLS, TILES, MAPS, CHARACTERS, MONSTERS BEING LEFT TO ROT ONCE MORE AS I BOOT FRICKING NEVERFRICKINGWINTERFRICKINGNIGHTS AGAIN AND SEE THE SAME moronic LOW POLY MINOTAUR MODEL IN A FRICKING CUSTOM MAP FOR THE 30TH YEAR IN A ROW
GET FRICKING REAL, ARE YOU homosexualS REALLY GOING TO WAIT UNTIL WIZARDS IMPLODES AND KILLS THE SETTING WITH D&D ONE?
i wish there was a cure for autism
have sex
>RTWP
>Whether you win or lose is decided before combat with prebuffing or the classes you've picked, most of the time just end up autoattacking to victory
>Turn BASED
>Make tactical decisions in AND before combat by modifying terrain, choosing your entry point as well as positioning and wise spell usage
That said BG3 would've been better if it was based on 4th edition because 4e was built with tactical combat in mind and has more ways of controlling the battlefield
BG3 would have been better if larian didn't make it too
Why do morons exist like prebuffing doesn't exist in turn based games? I had to do that shit all the time playing BG3
>Make TACTICAL decisions
Not true.
>webm is in Russian
>the guy playing is a moron
pottery
>the guy playing is a moron
What? How so?
>What? How so?
He's playing BG3
I am guessing you never played BG3 yourself.
The only answer I can accept.
I did.
>Fixed pic
>its the idiot who made the webm
LOL you should play the game more, moron.
Correct. I tried Wrath of the Righteous after BG3 and it was pure slop. I regretted even spending 30 hours on it whereas I have over 300 in BG3 and am still not tired of it
I would like bg3 a lot more if it was real time with pause like 1 and 2. maybe they can try it with their next game
there's no way they will, and that's fine provided we keep getting RTWP games as well, even if they're more niche/lower budget.
Either turn based or action combat.
RTwP, along with ATB are the worst of both worlds.
Why can't we have all styles? Why do entitled cretins think all rpgs should be their personal preference?
Octopath sucks because it is turn-based? Well then play Final Fantasy 16 or Trials of Mana.
Final Fantasy and ToM sucks because they is action-based? Well then play Octopath Traveler or Dragon Quest.
Imagine only liking racing games and getting upset that DQ 12 is a trun-based rpg instead of a racing game.
Look, you're making the mistake of making reasonable, coherent posts on Ganker.
Low IQ hobby and a low IQ board
>larian exists
>only copy pastes turn based games
>is chosen as goty
>actual cucks like josh sawyer say rtwp has lost
in reality RPGs are dead and in the ground, this is all just cope
>Imagine only liking racing games and getting upset that DQ 12 is a trun-based rpg instead of a racing game.
If DQ10 and DQ11 had been racing games and some homosexual company decided to make DQ 12 a turn-based rpg someone would be right to be a little confused and upset
Thats the point. You got people upset that DQ is still a turn-based rpg as if there arent enough action rpgs. Hell, the action gays succeeded in claiming Final Fantasy forever, let DQ retain the other side of the rpg coin.
I don't like action rpgs as much as tb rpgs, but that doesnt mean I want the next Mana game to switch genres and become turn-based. I prefer it remain action because it is refreshing to occasionally play other styles outside my normal preference.
>every game I personally do not like is bad game design and anyone who makes games like that deserve death
is the average opinion on here unfortunately. I think it's the mostly autistic userbase here not understanding that not everything caters to them.
I've always thought it was strange how people treat mechanics like these. it's like saying novels should stop using the red herring narrative device for entirely subjective or nonsensical reasons like "limitations of technology" as if turn based things only exist because of technological limitations.
>people treat mechanics like these
It actually started with larian. When larian was posed as the coming of jesus by the media with Original Sin 1 people started waking up to the fact that turn based is an out of date system for CRPGs.
This dichotomy of "turn based sucks" was created by the media propping up a dev that only makes turn based games as the best crpg dev ever.
Prove me wrong any time, but this turn based discussion only happens when in reference to larian, because everybody else already knows what genre they're playing. No it only happens with larian because we're constantly told by the media that their games are flawless masterpieces
it is very obvious that you are some zoomer who played his first rpg about a year ago, the 'turn based discussion' has been happening since the dawn of rtwp in baldur's gate 1
5 bucks skyrim was their first "RPG"
>turn based is out of date
turn based has not and never will be out of date as long as people continue to make new ones, and people still enjoy playing them. genre is timeless, especially in vidya. sounds like you're just a tastelet and blame everyone liking turn based games on everyone but you being wrong.
yes larian constantly resurrecting the corpse of turn based crpg combat is the reason there's contention around turn based
buddy you ever hear of a little IP, it's pretty niche, called fricking POKEMON. it's only the singular most profitable IP to ever exist, you see, and each main entry has ALWAYS been turn based. and people love it. because people like turn based games, always have and always will.
>duh pokemon
you're an idiot
A reason why larian is such a hot button topic for turn based discussion is not only because they keep resurrecting the turn based corpse, it's because they're lauded as flawless masterpieces by the gaming media. Then it becomes very easy to gaslight people that wish to "equalize" larian's reputation by saying that they "just don't like turn based". It's very clever marketing
why do you keep parroting the same "resurecting the turn based corpse" nonsense? Pathfinder had it before BG3, Wasteland 2 AND 3 had it, Underail has it and so on. I think you're mistaking your ignorance of the genre with objective truth about it
Pathfinder is a turn based game? Like your pokemons? You know your adult diaper's starting to stink you should probably change it
pathfinder the TTRPG is a turn based game yes, but also the pathfinder videogames feature both rtwp AND turn based combat that you can toggle whenever. pretty sure this is in pillars of eternity 2 as well. people have been making turn based CRPGs, not just larian you bozo
>he's gone from screeching about pokemans to a tabletop
do you even know where you're at right now?
>I cannot actually argue against your points
that's all you have to say anon
You don't have a point you're having a mental breakdown
RTWP is fine, but I think a lot of people, including myself, just prefer turn-based because it's way easier to understand. Games like Pathfinder are already an absolute nightmare for new players to understand all of the systems, how they interact in battle, and how to even stay alive. They're fantastic games with systems that are made in such a way that allows for tons of freedom in how you build your character. But for someone just hopping in, it's a mess of stats, passives, and invisible dice rolls all coming into play. So with RTWP, you can have literally thousands of different checks and changes in a fight happening all within a few seconds. And when things start to go wrong, they can go wrong pretty quick.
I'm a dumbass with those systems, but I still love what you can do with them. I can play RTWP, but turn-based makes it where I can identify exactly what happened in each moment and adapt accordingly. It also makes it where each turn feels more substantial since missing attack means an entire turn got thrown in the trash. Missing an attack in RTWP is a blip in the absolute flood of interactions happening, so it can go completely unnoticed unless it was some planned ability or something.
I think RTWP should absolutely continue to be a gameplay type used in games that are made for that kind of combat. But it makes perfect sense why turn-based would be more popular, especially for idiots like me who aren't always familiar with each mechanic and have to take a second to figure out why a character can't hit anything.
>Games like Pathfinder are already an absolute nightmare for new players to understand all of the systems, how they interact in battle, and how to even stay alive
They're really not, the reason why they stick to RTwP is precisely because they're not complex.
The reason why some people struggle to understand them is because the game rules are designed to be deliberately obtuse as per the 3/3.5E tradition, there's a lot of smoke and mirrors that are deliberately meant to disorient players, but the underlying mechanics are extremely simple.
To make an example about such a thing when it comes PF specifically, AC stacking is often considered a troublesome topic because 1E PF made it so that while you still can stack AC to the stratosphere you actually have juggle several different types of AC
>Natural AC
>Equipment AC
>Different Insight bonuses for AC
>WIS to AC
>DEX to AC
>INT to AC
>CHA to AC
>Mutagen bonuses to AC
>Morale bonuses
>Profane bonuses
Most people are overwhelmed by this because there's a lot of different colours of AC and while you can't stack the same colours, you most certainly can stack all of the different colours one time each, having to do excel spreadsheet hunting to know which AC colour is which depending on whether you're using a spell, a feat or a piece of equipment is another reason why people end up not vibing with the system.
Reason being you spend more time looking at the excel spreadsheets then actually playing the game, and the game in itself isn't particularly interesting either because again, it's not actually complex, it's just needlessly complicated and most of the allure is lost when they realize that the game is actually extremely simple and monotone, so again, it's not that it's hard to learn, it's just not worth the hassle for most people, because most people around are not interested in simplistic number crunching, which is also most probably their actual job too.
They should be any of those and whatever else depending on what the game is going for. There is no other answer.
real time anything else is for those who dont shower
>le epic which style do you liek??? discourse
I like when games are good. Why would I categorically claim that one style is "better?" That's moronic, and no matter how many thousands of threads you ask this stupid question I will NEVER give you an answer.
>BG3 made normalgays want to experience the sameshit with D&D 5E digital
>they learned it's not the same shit with shittier production values
BG3 killed modern D&D
are there any real time rpgs where you aren't basically just playing a dumbed down action game with one character while your party members stand around in the background wasting your consumables and suiciding into boss attacks?
All of the above, and not hidden option D: Action RPG. Either go full RPG or full action. Feels like shit when you're playing what's supposed to be an action game, but you're still forced to tank damage and heal up instead of avoiding/blocking it.
I don't like rpgs
I'm starting to think that I don't actually like RPGs either, there are parts of it however that I absolutely love and can't live without, like leveling, character progression and builds. Then you have the other stuff that I can't stand, like grindy combat where you're not in direct control your character's actions. They swing and miss, crit and dodge all on their own, I hate that shit. People then say that I don't really like RPGs because I want to control my character instead of just telling it what to do. Do I hate RPGs? I don't know.
sounds to me like you're just another ADHD homosexual
You're an ARPG gay.
RTWP is a clusterfrick. Either your game can be played out at regular speed at all times or it can't because often times when you allow combat to actually play out in real-time in these games, it's because you know you're going to face-roll it and strategy is unnecessary.
Larian games suck
Did you reply to the wrong post?
no?
you might need to take your meds then
No u
>Turn based games are better because there's not as many useless encounters
Man, you've spammed the same BG3 webms in the previous threads, let it go, RTwP is dead regardless of Larian's shovelware.
>RTwP is dead
The whole gaming industry is dead you braindead Black person
lmao
>only one dev making rpgs
>it's fricking larian, a joke of a developer
lol
>>only one dev making rpgs
See, this is why people call you a clown and tell you to take your meds.
You're completely detached from reality and let that childish spite of yours consume you.
Oh yeah? what other rpgs were released last year? and don't say that 40k game
>only games that came out last year count because I said so!
lol
So if the industry isn't dead, why are there no games?
>argue with me!
no no, clowns are meant to be laughed at, not debated.
>I lost the argument
actually you lost as soon as you made this thread
>if you don't engage in my bad faith arguments you lose!
ok. I lose. you win! go away now, no point in a winner sticking around with us losers eh?
>please leave my thread
why? you're so easy to "debate"
anything is easy to debate when you don't actually argue and just repeat the same bad points over and over
because it's an example you can name that proves his argument wrong
Octopath Traveler II
DQM3
Sea of Stars
Of course now you'll say they're either not RPGs or are shovelware, or they're indieshit, because you have no real argument and just want to marinate in your misery.
I'm sorry for you anon, I really am, nobody should end up like you.
>and don't say that 40k game
why not?
Because he would immediately say the 40k game and pretend like RPGs aren't dead
Because it would destroy my argument D:
I don't see how that clip is an argument against fast fights against trash mobs with low stakes that are uninvolved because you just steamroll them without thought when that clip is a large fight against enemies that are clearly an issue that only suffers pacing wise from the execution of enemy turns and not that the game is in itself turn based.
I hate that place. This is the worst one in the game. If you don't kill them in one move instead of playing the game you will have to do something else for the next 10 minutes.
If you're making a turn based game and dont give the option to play that shit at 10x or skip it entirely you're a fricking criminal
You have to understand, Baldur's Gate 3 fans are a bit intellectually slow, so turn-based makes more sense for the game's demographic.
RTwP is just a World of Warcraft with a cope button when you're too shit at managing cooldowns. It's a shitty genre and doesn't really fit the RPG setting tbh. BG3 was right to shit on it.
Cope all you want; but it's true. Also World of Warcraft is shit for the same reason being real time.
>real time is the world of warcraft
just stop
How is it not? Press button, wait for button to become available again. Pause when AI is moronic and you need to press the I win button for the AI. It's shit. Cope and seethe shitter.
>the real times is the world of warcrafts
Are these threads bots talking, or an actual chink tencent shill posting this thread and trying to defend shitty turn based combat every single day?
It's eric, same guy as the last thread you posted this in
No one likes the gameplay in balds gay 3, they like the SEX. Just put SEX in your game if you want it to sell.
Either turn-based or real-time, not RTWP. RTWP is just the worst bits of the former 2 put together.
yeah real times is the worlds of warcrafts, i'm more of a pokemans man myself. want to see a picture of my shitty diaper?
>they'd prob triple their sales and reach a much wider audience
I still cant believe a rtwptard was delusional enough to actually believe this
Yeah I'm more of a pokemans man myself
4X man, actually. But of course a butthurt falseflagging rtwpgay wouldnt know what 4X is
False flag? You mean like making threads and self bumping them with different IPs?
yeah. I'll never get why rtwpkeks devase themselves like this, how is falseflagging and samegayging bait threads on Ganker going to resurrect their dead genre? or suddenly make it atleast barely playable?
Yes the (unintelligible schizobabble) yes...
iI guess troll responses is I'll ever get from brainless rtwpkeks. Welp, carry on with your bait thread
Is "trolling" when you make threads and then self bump them with different IPs and then samegay spam people that don't believe your schizo nonsense?
Turn based is boring and just wastes your time. If someone says to you that TB somewhat more strategic than Real Time just watch a fragment from this video https://youtu.be/sVuiz_jRdlI?si=rDx8dLNL6MQkDKNx&t=641. Does it look like it has any strategy involved there?
RTWP is usually shit. Games like FF7R and Secret of Mana that use pausing for special abilities are mostly fine.
The worst part about BG3 is the combat, nobody plays the game for the combat. Most people just want a choose your own adventure story with a big budget. The fact that turn-basedgays see this as a huge win for their awful genre is laughable, BG3 would probably be even more successful if it had no combat at all.
>The worst part about BG3 is the combat
That's the BEST part though, and it's terrible
The best part was the waifus, don't kid yourself.
nah, the main draw of the game is the larian combat, which is passable despite being turn based... in DOS 2. It's still fricking terrible to anybody with an attention span. That said even braindead larian shills agree it's a step down in every way from DOS 2
Not even remotely the main draw was and is the sex and waifus, no one really cares about the combat. That's like saying you read playboy for the articles.
The people that bought the game just for the sex probably were the 90% of people that dropped the game in the first act
Exactly, they bought the game sex and the wacky story but by the time it was too late to refund it they realized they've bought a terrible game. The playerbase is inflated with sad people full of buyer's remorse and sunken cost cope.
Lets say you're a normalgay coomer, you can't buy Winter Memories on steam without outing yourself to all your friends as a sicko deviant, so you buy Baldur's Gate 3 instead and tell everyone you love RPGs.
Owlcat already has this figured out by including both. If some russian hacks can do it surely everybody else can too.
RTWP is cool but people don't really like it that much and I think that is okay. Most of the people who could design decent RTWP don't work anymore and decent TB is a lot easier to pull off.
>t. ardent FFXII defender
I've long since accepted that most of the games I enjoyed playing back then didn't deserve to be carried forward for one reason or another.
bnuuy sex
ashe sex
>enter combat
>have to wait for five enemies to take turns mauling me
>my turn
>I've been debuffed and can't attack
>end turn
>seventeen more enemies' turns to wait for until it's my turn again
>debuff lasts three turns
>I have to wait for 51 enemy moves before I can make my guy do stuff
Wow turn based is so fricking zased my guys
I wish more games did simultaneous turn based combat.
Turn based or real time. RTwP is the worst of both worlds and always has been.
real time with pause is the most moronic invention ever. I am surprised that it's even a thing, considering that pen and paper is 100% turn based.
By real time he meant mashing 1 button to win
Turn based is what DnD is forced to be because it just pen and paper.
Video games can be so much more yet morons think this is the optimal way to play virtual DnD.
>party control systems
Those are simulations of telepathic/schizo generalship, not simulation of a role.
Modern RPG design would be:
>not action (TB or RTwP)
>solo character control
>AI/multiplayer allies (if any)
>third or first person perspective
turn-based solely exists because a game can't simulate tactics in real time without shitting itself and devs reverting to 'hit-hit-dodge' simpler combat for the gameplay. In these kinds of games, you just somehow 'hit harder.'
RTwP is just a stopgap, not to be taken seriously.
If video game development was actually innovative, real time would be the superior option.
Turn-based is just a crutch to handicap players so the game can simulate challenge better.
>real time would be the superior option.
Then you would need to drastically cut down the number of abilities the players had at their disposal. Guild Wars 1 was kind of able to do this but only because each character only had 8 abilities max at a time.
why not just stick to jrpgs unless those have died out or something
RTwP offers one very specific feature that TB does not: it allows for power fantasy of combat encounters against non-threatening enemies, without locking the player into specific character archetypes or unrecoverably skewing the balance.
There is a charm in seeing your character(s) grow enough throughout the game to effortlessly dispose of dozens (if not hundreds) of enemies each of which would've been challenging in the early game. In TB even a single such fight across the entire game would be a slog, in RTwP you can just observe the mayhem basking in its glory.
The downside is that if the encounters are appropriately difficult, RTwP effectively becomes "Turn-Based but you have to manage turns manually", which is annoying.
I like how Owlcat's Pathfinder games do it. You have both, and regardless of your preferences, you can always switch to TB for the hardest encounters and to RTwP to go through fodder.
Kuro no Kiseki also has something like this except with switching between action and turn-based.
probably depend on the game you want to make and what works for it the best.
turn base for when you like tactics and being able to take a long time to think up your plan of attack.
real time for while you wish to base things on skill and reaction time.
also really depends on how much you want to roleplay because having isometric turn base game means you don't really have to voice all the lines in the game, however real time probably allows more immersion because you are seeing through your characters eyes and are not limited to turn base and you don't have to stand in place while your enemy fricks you up.
while at least people are smart enough to not use "it's realistic" as a point in defending their preferred gameplay style.