*sigh*
okay so, I recently had a bit of a convo in another thread, and hear somebody describe system shock 1 as closer to resident evil than a dungeon crawler, which was a surprise to me, because it didn't feel like that. So I said all this:
>I wish SS remake felt like this. Instead it's level design just reminded me of open world games. Where you just wander randomly in whichever direction you spin the wheel on, until you get an item that lets you progress, and wander some more till you can use it. It doesnt have that same feeling of "direction" and mental mapping to remember what key goes where. Because its just WAAAAY more open. Resident Evil has a lot of locked doors in the beginning and such. Honestly I've been looking for a game that feels like Resident Evil but isn't resident evil, because I hate resident evil. Wish that was SS remake.
What I want from this thread is two things. And answer to the greentext, I want to know if I somehow misunderstood System Shock's exploration, and in what way, because for the bit I played it did NOT feel at all like Resident Evil. Because if it did, I would have played longer.
And secondly...is this a matter of remake vs original? Because the dude I talked to briefly played the enchanced version of the original. Is that the disconnect? Is the original better than the remake? That sounds ridiculous to me, but if it's true, then it's true.
i have a strong preference for the original game but the remake is pretty faithful. you have to pay attention to the logs.
Maybe it feels like that if you play it with modern controls, or play the remake. The original felt exactly like playing Ultima Underworld in a spacestation with guns and sci-fi shit and a frickhuge, convoluted map. Of course there are some similarities like ammo scarcity, puzzles and collecting items, but I think the similarities end there.
also i feel like SS2 would be a better comparison for RE. ammo IS scarce in that.
>also i feel like SS2 would be a better comparison for RE. ammo IS scarce in that.
Unlucky. I didn't like SS2 much. Game leads you on top much with the space girl that's obviously shodan talking in your head constantly. And I didn't find the resource management to be that hard either. Just mindlessly wack braindead enemies with my wrench. And I played on the hardest difficulty too and people were hyping up how hard it would be so...yeah.
Damn. I don't feel like giving SS remake another chance if it's progression still feels more open world than Resident Evil, or Dark Souls, or Metroidvania. I like feeling like I'm actually figuring shit out and not just wandering around aimlessly till I find something.
Ammo in SS2 is scarce for people who focused on using a gun from the moment they got one. For the usual player who might buy into Standard weapons on their first playthrough, if they have the good sense to wrench any "easy" enemy they will be overloaded with ammo. Anti personnel rounds from an AR trivialize the Rumblers so hard that those players will wonder if it was a bug.
Combat is one of those things that I hope Nightdive will fix if they ever get around to an SS2 remake. Vanilla is HORRIBLY balanced.
>if they have the good sense to wrench any "easy" enemy they will be overloaded with ammo.
yes, that was me. But I don't understand how a player doesn't realize this? maybe it's because I ALWAYS try to play game moderately efficiently unless they pull shit like Resident Evil trial and error bullshit. Where the game cheats by preying on your like of prior knowledge.
I feel like it's actually naturally implied that one should be "efficient" in videogames. Obviously, assuming the game allows for it at all.
>Vanilla is HORRIBLY balanced.
Balance tends to be balanced in all imsims. Not that I actually believe its a real genre, but all these games of that era try to occupy the same sort of style of sci-fi/techno/machine first person shooter
frick no it's not
even on impossible difficulty I usually have hundreds of rounds of ammo in reserve by the end of the game and I never buy ammo from value reps
ammo is only scarce if you wander around killing the same respawning enemies without ever using melee
troony game, id rather play metal queer
The Original System Shock is a fever dream filled with bad controls but also horror and wonder. Very realistic sci-fi set up.
The remake is much visually darker and less realistic than System Shock 1 with a sassy character that literally gives middle fingers to their enemies. SS1 remake doesn't feel or control the same. (You don't even get a mantle)
>Is the original better than the remake? That sounds ridiculous to me
leave Ganker
I like how you conveniently left out what comes after. Does Ganker DELIBERATELY try to be stupid, obtuse, and moronic? I don't get it.
This too. Wtf?
Just the fact your default position is that remakes must be better is abhorrent.
Nice thread, insect
nice wiener, insect
>*sigh*
thread hidden, homosexual.
The level design and mission flow of the remake is virtually identical. Only the groves, throne room on the last level and final boss fight are different
So neither are resident evil but in space, and also but not shit?
*sigh* FUUUUUUUUCK. I need a game so bad right now man.
It's weird to describe System Shock like Resident Evil. Maybe the person was confused because you start the game with virtually no resources and start fighting zombie like mutants. It quickly evolves into you just spraying rounds everywhere
>mouselook mod
eww
never ever going back to playing it on dos
>It quickly evolves into you just spraying rounds everywhere
Can't that be said for literally EVERY survival horror game though? seriously I can't think of one that's not like that.
Okay but I don't think most people play resident evil 1-3 by killing every enemy in the game. There's a lot of hitscanners in System Shock so you pretty much have to clear them out
>mouselook
utterly disgusting
What's the better game in your opinion SS1 or SS2 and why? No "le influential" memes.
Probably 1 even though I'm a pretty big fan of 2 as well. Just faster paced combat, more of a challenge and consistent throughout. 2 feels very much like they just tried to reuse a lot of Thief's engine, some of its mechanics and animations and just hope for the best so it doesn't feel as polished. Some of the weapons like the viral proliferator and annelid launcher were clearly never playtested
2. 1 is too aimless
I prefer 1. I don't like 2's FPS mechanics, Thief engine wasn't made for them. Balance in 2 is all over the place and I don't like how it holds your hand in terms of story.
>how it holds your hand in terms of story.
it does the same with gameplay and exploration as well.
I prefer 1 as well, there are a dozen resource management games, genuine exploration is unironically rare
1 literally set the stage for everything you saw in gamedesign from the last 90's through the whole 2000's. Anything "new" you can remember from a game of that era was either straight lifted or retooled from SS1. It is a game developer's game.
>1 literally set the stage for everything you saw in gamedesign from the last 90's through the whole 2000's. Anything "new" you can remember from a game of that era was either straight lifted or retooled from SS1.
? what?
>from the last 90's through the whole 2000's.
ooooohhh I read that as WAAAAAY bigger a stretch of gaming than it was.
but this is actually interesting. the only videogame from that era I care about is tomb raider, and one reason it's very special to me, is because there is literally no other game like it in existence, it's a game that could only exist in its time, but is still ironically ahead of a lot of platforming action adventure games to this day, and mogs almost any game I can think of in pure 3D level design. And doesn't make the mistake moron games like Dishonored do, of having some many "options" and paths to the point of meaninglessness.
So...what does Tomb Raider take exactly from System Shock?
Guys please change my perspective on system shock exploration just enough to give it another chance. If it's truly shit I'll just find that out again. I just need a feeling that the exploration is just random and aimless and that I'm actively figuring out the way forward rather than stumbling into it and not realizing wtf the audio log I just found means, but I'll find out eventually when I get to the place I need to progress.
you're always told what you're supposed to be doing and things are signposted pretty clearly
We talking 1 or 2? Because that definitely sounds like 2, but I'm not sure I'd agree for System Shock 1.
rebecca lansing/SHODAN always lays out your main objective and the logs give you hints for it
yeah I don't know about that as a system shock 1 vet. Rebecca tells you at the start of the game to find D'Arcy and only hints that he has an office on a balcony on medical. Once you get his audio log it reveals clues for destroying the laser and he tells you there's more notes in his office on the research deck but all those tell you is you need to access the gamma quadrant to get isotope 22. You will have no earthly idea where his office is on both levels and wander around until you find it. Once you actually take the laser code and isotope 22 to the reactor deck there are absolutely no clues as to where you're supposed to take either. You might happen upon the radiation shields room quickly by accident but the laser safety interlocks are literally right next to the fricking reactor
Well it is like that, you need to listen to the audio logs for instructions and you will stumble upon most of them. They will tell you the levels and quadrants the items you need are in but it's not always obvious how to access them e.g. the library cyberspace terminal unlocks the code to deactivate the laser shields
>Well it is like that
Hmmmmmmnn
Frick man. Maybe I'll try it again. But honestly this sounds better than Prey atleast where they're leading you around just like system shock 2.
>but it's not always obvious how to access them e.g. the library cyberspace terminal unlocks the code to deactivate the laser shields
that sounds interesting actually. maybe that's what the person meant by "it's like resident evil".
>rebecca lansing
Okay hold up I have ZERO idea who this is. I distinctly remember shodan telling me where to go in system shock 2? but I don't remember anyone at all in system shock 1 wtf. Like this name "Rebecca" legit does not compute for me whatsoever.
Rebecca e-mails you at the start of the game and then gives you instructions for every objective thereafter
no wonder you got filtered, she's the only one that actively emails you aside from SHODAN.
the game has no quest log but the email section of the multimedia reader, for all intents and purposes, is your quest log.
>no wonder you got filtered
how did I get filtered? by what? define this? I know you can't cuz you're just mindlessly using a baseless label like a bot. But still. I'd like to see you try. Or not, and implicitly admit everything I'm saying is right.
system shock was never good
>bro let's just ambush the player with like 20 cyborgs on the first level of the game
What were they thinking?
Ive just finished playing the remake and its 100% an upgrade from the original. Very faithful to the OG including its lackluster ending. Hoping the give the second game the same labour of love.
>Ive just finished playing the remake and its 100% an upgrade from the original.
what did they upgrade?
not his trolling skills, that's for certain.
Major Changes
>Updated SHODAN boss – SHODAN is fought in cyberspace but with controls as if playing the game normally. You move between three platforms and fight off cyberspace security enemies. Once the enemies are dealt with an ethical core is restored to SHODAN ultimately returning her to normal and completing the game. The player can only die on cyberspace 3 difficulty otherwiset they will continually respawn. This fight was overhauled in patch 1.2.
>Updated Diego and Cortex reaver boss fights – All three Diego boss fights have been updated to be more challenging. The third Diego fight features additional mechanics. A third cortex reaver boss fight was also added on the Bridge level. If you die to any of these bosses it is an automatic game over.
>Redesigned cyberspace – Cyberspace has been updated to be a largely combat driven experience moving between areas, blasting cyberspace security. Certain levels also have more cyberspace jacks and some of the new ones are required to progress. Cyberspace no longer has a time limit.
>Redesigned inventory – Instead of a set number of slots dependent on categories such as weapons or derms there is now a grid based inventory, expandable with two upgrades. Ammo, derms, grenades and other items have stack limits. Additionally while in your inventory you can hover over items for descriptions of what they do.
>Hacker’s apartment – Shortly after the intro cutscene the hacker can explore their apartment and interact with items or listen to TriOp radio messages from the game’s original manual. After about 30 seconds they can interact with the computer to continue.
>Vaporize system – Junk items in the environment can be vaporized into scrap.
>Recyclers – Placed on walls throughout levels. Turns scrap into TriOptimum tokens.
>Vendors – Four vendor machines added throughout levels. One sells ammo, one sells derms, one sells snacks and one sells weapon mods. The amounts you can buy are finite and do not restock
>New weapons - The grenade launcher and monkey wrench have been added as weapons. The flechette has been redesigned into a shotgun. Certain ammo types were also updated. Some weapons like the plasma rifle, railgun and ion blaster have had slight redesigns.
>Removed Weapons - The dart gun, riot gun, stun gun and laser blaster have been removed as primary weapons. Nitropacks, concussion bombs and earth-shakers were removed as grenades.
>Weapon mods – Most ranged weapons can have weapon mods attached to them typically for damage, capacity or efficiency increases.
>Audio logs – New audio logs have been added, mainly as Kickstarter rewards. All audio logs have been rerecorded by professional voice actors and had their monologue slightly reworked. SHODAN’s original voice actress reprised her role.
>Garden Groves – The groves have completely different level design which is more open ended and allows you see into space, including the station. They all require you to hit the safety interlock as usual.
>Music – Music has been toned down to be more an ambient noise while staying true to the original tracks. Some levels such as Research and Engineering have completely different music.
>Safe storage – There is a safe which moves between most levels to store items.
>Enemy voice lines – Enemies will speak full sentences when idling or engaging the player. Previously they only made random noises when doing either.
>More difficult puzzles – The line and socket puzzles have been updated to be slightly more difficult to solve and challenge will scale with the player set puzzle difficulty. Logic probes can still be used to skip them.
>Space – You can observe saturn, stars and other parts of the space station when looking out windows. Previously this was extremely limited due to technology.
>Opening cutscene – The intro cutscene where the hacker is detained and offered a job by Diego is far less dramatic due to the removal of music. It has also changed moderately because the hacker flips off the security, Diego drugs him and SHODAN’s ethical constraints aren’t reprogrammed but instead a simple switch on a menu to control her is turned off.
>New and updated enemy types – Cyborg mantis and loader bot added as realspace enemies. Cortex reaver added as cyberspace enemy. Invisible mutant changed to a zero gravity mutant but still able to turn invisible. Most existing enemies have new or different attacks.
>3D weapon and enemy models – These have replaced the previous sprites.
>Dismemberment system – Corpses can be dismembered for most models.
>Heavy use of animations – Notably reloading has been added as an animation affecting the place of combat. Running to completely empty and reloading may result in a bolt animation as well. Additional animations have been added for picking up hardware attachments (first time) weapons (first time), keycards, audio logs and other misc animations will play such as when swiping a keycard or using a story item. This significantly slows down the pace of the game compared to the original.
>Organic growth – The growth at the top of the security level and on the bridge has been completely removed from the game.
>MFD Games – These were acquired in Cyberspace and could be played on the Software tab of the HUD.
>Level 0 difficulty – Level 0 difficulty options “tourism mode” have all been removed from the game. For example level 0 combat difficulty made enemies stand in place and never attack and 0 difficulty puzzles automatically solved puzzles.
Minor changes
>Laser rapier color - It is possible to change the laser rapier’s color to match the HUD’s theme by obtaining a second rapier on the executive level
>Enemy hacking system – The targeting identifier attachment can be used to hack enemies by holding down a button while they are unaware of the player. This causes them to temporarily move around blindly during which a heavy strike or movement past the enemy can be made.
>Grenades redesigned – Grenades explode on expiration of fuse rather than contact though the grenade launcher can be used to fufill that role. You cannot set the fuse timer which was possible with some of the original grenades. EMP grenades shut mechanical enemies down instead of doing damage. EMP grenades can also shut certain devices off, including your night sight.
>Hardware attachments updated – The jump jets and turbo motion boosters were combined into one. Turbo motion doesn’t cause as much friction but does use energy. The lantern and infrared night sight was combined into one with the night sight taking precedence and overriding the lantern. This can be a downside as the night sight is susceptible to EMP.
>Fall damage – The player can take damage or even die from falling.
>Chess game – A chess game is available to play in Delta Grove. When you first encounter it you will need to need to checkmate the enemy in a predetermined scenario which can open a door nearby. Once the scenario has been completed you can play an ordinary game of chess. The general difficulty of the computer increases with the puzzle difficulty set at the start of the game. En passant and castling will also work in these games.
>Biohazard barrels – Destroying all the biohazard barrels in a room now clears the contamination completely. This doesn't work for every room though.
>Monorail to groves – Monorails transport the player to the groves. These physically move in the game world.
>Beta Jettison – When you jettison beta grove instead of a v-mail you can actually watch it physically detach its model from the station.
>Vending machine bomb – The player can buy a live grenade on the Executive deck that blows up in their face. SHODAN will mock them.
>Enemy respawns – Instead of instant respawns which correspond to difficulty level and remaining population of an enemy type on a particular level the new respawn system will periodically spawn finite amounts of enemies in previously cleared areas typically by an elevator in the floor.
>SHODAN death taunt – After any permanent death SHODAN will deliver a taunt to the player which can vary.
>Berserk derm hallucination – Using a beserk derm can result in a side effect where the player sees sprites from the original game. These sprites change on each level.
>Toilets – Toilets were added throughout the station just as flavor.
>Weapon zoom – It’s possible to slightly zoom in when using weapons similar to Fallout 3 but there will not be a sight.
>Hardware attachments settings – Hardware attachments cannot be set to individual levels of the attachment found. This was originally a cost vs. benefit choice but all operate with the same level of energy efficiency now.
>Weapon settings – Energy based weapons no longer have a bar to drag them to different levels of output but instead are toggled between three modes. Weapon overheating is also no longer possible.
>Violent shaking on self-destruct – After setting the station to self-destruct all levels except the bridge will occasionally violently shake on a random timer. No shaking now occurs at all.
>Developer heads – The Looking Glass staff scanned in their heads which were spread around the station as items which could be placed in your inventory. This is absent in the remake except for Abe's plot related head.
>Map notes – The map has been updated to include icons for different devices of note such as elevators or energy stations. You can place custom markers but cannot add notes next to them as before. The markers will not appear in realspace either.
>Surgery machine / energy station / crate destruction – These can no longer be destroyed.
>Score screen – A score screen with additional statistics such as time spent and restorations no longer appears at the end of the game.
>Attack deflect – You cannot deflect certain projectiles fired by enemies by shooting them as previously.
>Restorations – Previously all restoration stations restored a set amount of health dependent upon the level of the station the player respawned on. This has changed this to be the same amount on each level of the station, but more health is restored if the combat difficulty is lower. Mission (AKA story) difficulty further modifies the ability to respawn if you die on different levels where restorations haven’t been activated so long as one had been activated on a previous level. Additionally restorations will display a system reboot screen. Dying on the security level, bridge level, in the beta grove or during a boss fight (except SHODAN unless Cyber 3 is enabled) will still kill you outright.
>Time limit – The story difficulty 3 time limit to deal with SHODAN has increased to 10 hours up from 7 probably to account for the increase in animation time and cyberspace segments. You can only see the time limit by pausing the game or during 15 minute decrements when it briefly flashes on your HUD.
>Cyberspace real world damage – Failing in cyberspace on a difficulty below 3 will not damage the player after the failure.
>HUD redesign – The main heads up display was redesigned to use a standard 1 through 0 hotkey display present in many modern games. You cannot customize the left and right panels as before. Other panels are accessed by pressing tab. It’s now possible to change the HUD color and opacity.
>Derms, Medkits and Batteries – These are no longer applied instantly but play an animation. Derms can still be stacked for their effect and show an icon with a duration. Additionally the screen will pulse every few seconds while under a derm effect. The berserk derm no longer warps colors.
>VMAIL – This won’t pop up on the screen blocking the player’s view. Instead these all display on real screens nearby. You can move away from them to stop dampen their sound. The station’s destruction plays as a cutscene instead of VMAIL.
>Alcohol – Added as various items in the game. Temporarily distorts the player’s view.
>Hacker model – The hacker can look down to see their body and feet. There is a female hacker option available as of patch 1.2.
>Waypoints – If you set mission difficulty to 1 at the start you will be given white markers on the map indicating where to go next.
zoom – It’s possible to slightly zoom in when using weapons similar to Fallout 3 but there will not be a sight.
FRICKING FRICK???? Why do these games do this? Just give me a fricking ads. I hate my gun aim sensitivity being the same as my camera sensitivity, wtf is this cringe logic.
settings – Energy based weapons no longer have a bar to drag them to different levels of output but instead are toggled between three modes. Weapon overheating is also no longer possible.
machine / energy station / crate destruction – These can no longer be destroyed.
deflect – You cannot deflect certain projectiles fired by enemies by shooting them as previously.
>You cannot set the fuse timer which was possible with some of the original grenades.
Weapons - The dart gun, riot gun, stun gun and laser blaster have been removed as primary weapons. Nitropacks, concussion bombs and earth-shakers were removed as grenades.
These are "upgrades"?
system – Junk items in the environment can be vaporized into scrap.
– Placed on walls throughout levels. Turns scrap into TriOptimum tokens.
It's kind of funny to realize how much the remake took from Prey. It's like symbiotic relationship. Prey took from System Shock, and System Shock from Prey.
I don't know about that. Prey uses a multilayered system of several resources to then produce items. This is more like nanites from System Shock 2 to buy directly from vendors. System Shock 2 had a recycler in it as well
Huh. Interesting some of these changes seem to be focused around limiting inventory and making resources matter more. Maybe the remake is more "resident evil" than the original actually.
What are the best difficulty modifiers to play this game on again?
All 2s except for puzzle which you can safely make a level 3 for more enjoyable puzzles and harder chess difficulty
Because it's neither of the two, it's an Im-sim.
>it's an Im-sim.
Even dumber of a genre than survival horror, and even less real, but even if it was real, system shock 1 would be one of the last games to apply
This. It already has an easily understood umbrella it fits under without trying to view it through the lens of comparisons to games like RE which it isn’t particularly similar to.
The gameplay style is modified Immersive Sim (forma de estándar cyberpunk) with less of an emphasis on RPG elements or increasing stats. However the level progression is Metroid-ish.
SS1 Remake was 2023 goty