Just beat this. Instant 10/10 for me. Heard there was a shit ton of symbolism and whatnot so I wanted to try my hand at fully understanding the game before I looked at other's detailed analysis, but I've kinda hit a dead end. Any non spoilery advice for looking for things or thinking about the game?
This game doesn't have a lot of symbolism, just a frickton of references to other media. Have you watched Jacob's Ladder? And most importantly, have you played the first game?
>Jacob's Ladder
No, planning to
>SH1
Only a little. Thought they were unrelated?
They are unrelated but you need to play 1. The first three SH games are all equally good so if you think that 2 is a 10/10 you'll definitely like the other two
OP why the frick would you start a series like this on the second game? Why do so many people skip SH1?
What this anon said, but I want to add that Dune is worth watching if you're a fan of the book (and you should be). It still isn't great, but it's fun to compare to the newer half-book-film and miniseries and see the different adaptation choices they made. There's also a fanedit by Spicediver that is very well known and mostly improves on Lynch's version.
>last boss of cinema
kek, good description
Dick Laurent is dead [2]
Agreed. I think the story and atmosphere and everything surrounding the gameplay are great, and it's extremely creative and even haunting at times. It definitely stands out in the medium of gaming as a whole. But man, the gameplay is complete ass. It's a horrendous step back from SH1 and I'll never understand how they could have aced so many small details in this and yet botched every part of the foundation.
>Why do so many people skip SH1?
Because SH2 might as well be a different world. SH2 makes no sense if you want to include SH1 in it. The city became a magical circus in SH2 when in SH1 it's hammered down that it's Alessa behind the paranormal. Without her it's just a normal city.
The cult could be active in Silent Hill because of its spooky properties. At least superficially, there's nothing added by latter games that can't be merged with the story of SH1. Alessa might be living in the town in the first place because it would magnify or impact her powers.
>Why do so many people skip SH1?
because young normies can stomach PS2 graphics but not ps1 ones
Somewhat related
Truly the The Shining of retro gaming
>shining
Not even close
>Instant 10/10 for me.
Bad taste, go watch Blue Velvet, at least Lynch's work actually has something to say.
You should watch it too, it's good
sensible chuckle
What ending?
In water
Hijacking this thread since Lynch was brought up: I watched some of Twin Peaks in the first couple of episodes but nodded off. I could definitely understand the Lynchian moments, disjunct inappropriate abruptions and whatnot. Question is, what films should I start with first? Eraserhead? Müllholland Drive?
Just watch them in release order, they are all good except for Dune. Also only watch Fire Walk With Me if you’ve seen the first two seasons of Twin Peaks. Inland Empire is the last boss of cinema
Book of Lost Memories was a promotional booklet that came with Silent Hill 3 in Japan, it includes an indepth look into the series and its themes. There's a handful of stuff that does sound kind of goofy or thought up on the spot, but for the most part it offers a solid explanation of various aspects of the series up to that point with commentary from the devs themselves on certain things even.
As for less official means of analysis it's kind of hard to suggest any analysis of the game as they usually reference other titles in the series so I would suggest at least playing the main trilogy before looking into them but there's a few of them I would shill to a newcomer.
>The Real Silent Hill Experience (TRSHE): Made in the early 2010s this series definitely feels like a different time from the internet and there's some pretty cringy gags but overall this is a solid retrospective of the series as a whole
>GamingMuse: She has made a video on basically everything in the series, they're okay but the real reason I recommend her is her series about the development of the games, they're incredibly in depth with a lot of otherwise obscure info you wouldn't find on typical fansites
>megabearsfan: Most of his stuff exists as articles but he's done a few videos adapting his articles as well. Honestly just a really solid selection of analysis delving into why certain fan headcanons are contradictory to the games and stuff only the real autists would care about,
>megabearsfan
I checked this dude out and he unironically believes that the events of all the games take place in the real world, and the town council or whoever just decided to fill in all the gigantic, gaping bottomless pits that appeared in SH1 and apparently the world at large took no notice of this or thought to ask what the frick happened in Silent Hill.
In fairness I do think the first game was ambiguous about whether everything was happening in reality or not, but come on, you have to do Olympic-level mental gymnastics to reconcile this with there being absolutely no indication in later games that the world took any notice of the events of SH1, nor even anything that would point to a cover-up.
>I checked this dude out and he unironically believes that the events of all the games take place in the real world,
I'm sorry to say but you may just be actually moronic.
The symbolism is just sex, everything comes down to sex.
It's fricking moronic and I never understood the appeal of the game. Thank frick 1 didn't have this trash in it.
>The symbolism is just sex, everything comes down to sex
>It's fricking moronic and I never understood the appeal of the game
that's because you can't understand what you'll never have
hey anon im also ehausted with the normies shoving their genital obsession in my face
but literally the entire story is written around it. and the character you play as is believable inside it.
our world is dominated by sex, it literally is the reason we are typing. why does this in particular bother you?
i don't relate to james at all, but i understand him. and that's the point. there's not supposed to be a perfect resolution even across multiple endings.
that reaction of disgust is integral to the game.
I am not bothered by sex, the issue I have is people acting like it's SO DEEP when it's about on par with what a teenagers writings.
While I think SH2 is good, it's pretty much this. Most of the game revolves around sex and repressed anger. Just look at the characters:
James: repressed sexual drive and anger because of his wife condition
Eddie: bullied guy who eats the shit that happens to him until he explodes
Angela: suicidal thoughts, self-harm and self-esteem problems due to her sexual abuse experiences
Maria: literally the opposite of Mary, showing a more sexually extroverted personality which aligns with James' desires. Also has some aggressive moments
The exception to this is Laura for obvious reasons.
When I was younger I used to love SH2 story, but as I grew up older I think I realized isn't the masterpiece I thought it was, but it's still good. The best part about SH is the cult and SH2 kinda ignores that part to make it more about psychological trauma.
Just read Book of Lost Memories and the rest is for you to analyze. SH2 has a bunch of things that are open to interpretation, but fans tend to be way too intense with symbolism. Masahiro Ito is tired of answering moronic questions about symbolism because it got to the point that people see a random object in certain room and start to think that it has some deep meaning.
Ahh yes, it’s the game where u play as the psycho horny guy who sexualizes everything and wants to frick anything that moves
This is all you really need to understand the story of the first three games: https://web.archive.org/web/20160411154103/http://www.translatedmemories.com/book.html
You can also read this, it's a fan analysis but it's decent: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps/198641-silent-hill/faqs/28331
In short (spoilers for SH2 obviously):
- James killed his wife, put her body in the car and drove to Silent Hill to end his life there
- When he arrived there, he plunged into delusions.
- The town is not a purgatory, but it can manifest things from your mind.
- Things that you see in the game are not just illusions, they're manifestations. It's reality, but not objective reality. Laura can't see shit, she is immune to the paranormal power. But those afflicted, like the rest of the characters, can actually get killed. They can also vanish or teleport around.
- Pyramid Head is kind of like a James' mental immune system. He tries to make him snap out of his delusions, and to do this he attacks the monsters and Maria. He never actually pursues James himself.
- Think of the Otherworld as phases of sleep. The fog world is slumber, you're barely awake and can perceive the world as it is and even interact with other people, but your mind already wanders. As you dive deeper into the Otherworld, your connection with "awake" people loosens, but you can perceive and interact with others "sleeping" there. For example, Pyramid Head is a being from the deepest part of James' unconscious, so no one but him can perceive it (Eddie says he didn't see it, and Angela never mentions it either). But both you and Angela can see the monster that attacked her in that room with fleshy pistons in the walls. It's a manifestation of Angela's mind. The game never makes it clear, but according to Masahiro Ito who designed monsters and locations, Angela sees that monster in a different form than James (and the player). Towards the end of the game you also get to see how the Otherworld looks for Angela.
>https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps/198641-silent-hill/faqs/28331
Nevermind, it's garbage. Meant to link this one: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps2/437029-silent-hill-2/faqs/36931
>- Pyramid Head is kind of like a James' mental immune system. He tries to make him snap out of his delusions, and to do this he attacks the monsters and Maria. He never actually pursues James himself.
That's just factually wrong. He attacks James in the very first encounter when Maria is nowhere to be found. And why would he bash monsters together like trying to make them have sex if he was just his immune system?
>He attacks James in the very first encounter
He doesn't. He walks to James and stares at him and then walks away, while James frantically shoots him.
>And why would he bash monsters together like trying to make them have sex if he was just his immune system?
He is weird like that.
Total shit. He's swinging his sword around and walks towards James to attack him. He does walk away after a while but there is no question he attacks James in that encounter. He and his twin also pursue and attack James in the last encounter. Have you even played the game?
>He attacks James in the very first encounter when Maria is nowhere to be found
James attacks him first and then ambushes him during an otherworld transition
Ito literally confirmed Pyramid Head is James's guardian angel.
>It's just a game for children, stop thinking about it
>Who cares, I have sooo many more interesting things to talk about
>Silent Hill? Can you just let it go already? Please?
>These games are sooo beneath me now
>Look at me guys, PLEASE just look at me
Why is he like this? He created something 20 years ago that people still remember and enjoy. Why can't he just enjoy the attention it get him? Or just ignore it altogether and don't reply, if he really doesn't care?
It's pretty reasonable to be sick of something you made when you already revealed what all the symbolism is and people are still over analyzing it and asking you if x actually means y.
We are at a point where people are asking if a hole in the ground is symbolism for a vegana, when in the game it's pretty damn obvious that the holes were where corpses were thrown into.
>Why is he like this?
He stopped responding to SHgays after they told he he has no idea what SH is about.
To be fair he has said a lot of nonsensical shit and just outright lies about the series.
He is generally friendly and still posts a lot about the game. He also autistically mass replies to everyone with smiley faces. He just doesn't care for certain things (things he didn't create himself, things he didn't think about in the game, people pushing headcanons)
The Reddit gays and their headcanons are what made Ito dislike the series
I think what more people need to understand about symbolism is that, by its nature, it can mean many things at once. Sure, the vegana angle is plausbile. The holes can also represent death and specifically burial. The fact that James leaps into several holes in fairly quick succession is also physically unrealistic, which means they could be a hint that what the player/James sees might not be reality. There doesn't have to be one "true" symbol. That may be why the designers are a little tired of being asked to make one theory or another "official".
>Heard there was a shit ton of symbolism and whatnot
You heard wrong. Game has a simple plot and any depth besides the obvious plot is headcanon of the psychotic fanbase. Don't go that way. I warn you.
The movie was better.
Dick Laurent is dead
SH2's plot seems to have been, well, "inspired" by an opera written by Korngold, itself based on an 1892 novel by Rodenbach.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_tote_Stadt
It has apparently been discussed a lot by German-speaking fans of SH. I saw the opera earlier this year and was a bit freaked out by the unexpected similarities.
So there you go.
fascinating stuff, thanks for teaching me something new about SH2
You don't even have to reach that far back. The central plot is just a simplified copypaste of Lost Highway from 1997.
Very similar and Japanese really like operas, so it could very be the inspiration
- boss fights are shit
- only like 3 common enemy types the whole game
- maybe another 3 less common enemy types not counting bosses
- abysmal combat
- the pyramid guy pretty much loses all shock value after the apartments
- autistic voice acting
- the whole story has to rely on the suspension of belief that james very strongly wanted to be punished for his sins with his on purpose denial
- this means in water should make the most sense as the ending
- except actually it shouldn't lol because after the two pyramids fight he finally acknowledges his issues and that he wanted to be punished for his sins
- his delivery of these lines makes it seem like he has forgiven himself and wants to end this
- you get so much health and ammo drops and the enemy variety completely trivializes it all making the game very easy
- hard mode is actually busted in the hospital with pyramid guy moving way too fast assuring he will constantly kill maria unless you stop to keep shooting him
- plus his run in this part looks super fricking goofy kek
- actually a short game with not enough exploration
- its unironically and hilariously going to be made into an even shittier game
- the fight with eddie is probably the shittiest boss fight of all time
the only saving grace is maria's voice acting was pretty decent as is mary's letter at the end game. the music and atmosphere I admit is top notch stuff and hard carries the game big time. the pyramid is clearly the best monster the game has but its barely even a threat. everything else could have all been done way better. the game can never be a 10/10 based on all of this.
And still one of the best games ever made, no idea how they did it.
>- the fight with eddie is probably the shittiest boss fight of all time
The rest of the enemies are dumb as frick and have AI on par with an 8 bit platformer, but Eddie really takes the cake. How did this ever pass QA?
would this scene having the uncensored audio change any sort of impact for you?
its been many years since i've played sh2.
So I cracked and started looking at stuff online. The game is very different from what I'd heard. Like other anons mentioned, Unironically everything just comes down to Mary or sex. And while there's some stuff that you can think about and figure out on your own, there's a shit ton of stuff that you'd never guess and that people only know due to word of god. It's cool to see the ideas behind what was made, but disappointing to realize this wasn't some big thing to figure out. Still a 10/10 on horror value alone for me, even though I hate horror shit. Looking forward to 3, though I have to beat 1
Hey! I heard about this but I didn't know the audio was actually released. Wish they kept this in. The audio doesn't bother me but it helps make the scene more raw, which I think would be a good direction for the "truth scene"
I am curious as to how old more serious fans were when they first played SH2. A lot of people seem to speak of it in a way that'd you speak of your favorite childhood media and oftentimes people speak of the "impact" it had on them and their lives
Thanks, I'll check out
>though I have to beat 1
Go play it right now. Also one advice about stuff like Silent Hill: thinking about various allegories and symbolism (especially while you are still in the process of playing/watching/reading/etc) only makes the experience worse. Works like SH are supposed to feel like a dream, you should just feel it instead of trying to figure out what means what. As funny as it sounds, using your brain actually ruins everything. And since some anons in the thread have mentioned Lynch I have a very good example: there is a movie called Inland Empire which is a masterpiece if you feel it and complete trash if you try to make sense of it with your brain
Yeah, I don't typically bother with analysis on any media the 1st run around and save thinking for my 2nd runs. I'm not smart enough to catch shit on my first runs lol. I probably wouldn't have liked SH2 as much as I did if I was focusing on the background psychological stuff instead of the really cool atmosphere. Like frick whatever deeper meaning in the game, the prison area is fricking b***hing. On the topic of Lynch, I've heard of some of his negative responses to being asked about what his films mean, so I'll definitely try to follow his and your advice of just feeling his movies
>You're probably going to enjoy 1 and 3 more than 2
Hmmmm. We'll see. From what I played, 1 definitely had stronger horror and some well done ideas for a PS1 game, but it works like a nightmare that so bad that it jolts you awake, as opposed to 2 which is like a nightmare that's disturbing and haunting the whole way through, but never in a intense enough way that you're jolted up.
>everything about the atmospheric, visual and sound aspect of the game felt perfect
Honestly surprised teenagers would gravitate more towards atmospheric and artistic horror than action type but I guess different people have different tastes, even as teens
>why the frick would you start a series like this on the second game
I started with 1, but my heart wasn't really in it because I was only checking the series out to get to the psychological stuff in 2. I imagine so many people skip 1 just because of 2's huge reputation. That and everyone saying the two games aren't related. 1 is a good game though, I respect it and I am somewhat looking forward to getting back to it
>Honestly surprised teenagers would gravitate more towards atmospheric and artistic horror
You have to keep in mind that if you grew up in the 90s (as a kid/teenager, not born mid 90s) and you were into the "alternative" media of the time, especially music, that aesthetic was fairly popular. Music genres like metal, industrial, ambient, grunge and even some electronic/ambient music were leaning towards that aesthetic when it comes to their artwork and music videos. Playing SH1 felt like playing something that was based on that type of music. In fact, Akira Yamaoka main influence for the soundtracks is the music from that time
>For fans of the first game it was basically the same gameplay wise with some minor improvements
I would argue that the first game has better gameplay and level design than the second. Besides figthing the flying monsters, most things are better in SH1, at least when it comes to gameplay
>In fact, Akira Yamaoka main influence for the soundtracks is the music from that time
Playing Silent Hill 2 and 3 for the first time in the early 2000s was pivotal to developing my musical tastes. Those games are the reason why I discovered Massive Attack, Portishead, Nine Inch Nails, and everything else on the whole spectrum of trip hop to industrial.
Listen to pic related. It's one of those 'meme Ganker albums' you constantly see, yes, but it's actually very good
>the flying monsters
The pterodactyls are one of my favorite horror enemies ever because they're way more intricate than they have any right to be. If they can't path to your location from the air they'll try to walk to get at you. They also have at least 3 separate death animations based on the type of weapon used and the state they're in. If they're diving at you and you shoot one to death, it glides to the ground and hits with a nice thump. If it's hovering and you shoot it, it just crumples to the ground, but if you melee it to death you actually break its neck and it'll flap around uselessly and die after a few seconds if you don't finish it off. Someone must have really loved these guys because no other enemy has so many little details.
YES! i was just playing sh1 again and have been spending a lot of time prodding and poking the ai
i was stunned by the level of detail and interaction these guys have
Do any of the other monsters have interesting behavior like that? I remember the nurses would kind of cooperate. If there were 2 in close proximity one would always try to grapple you so her friend could freely attack. You can also make the gray kids stumble and fall flat on their faces if you dodge their grab attempt just right. Nowhere near as cool as the pterodactyls though.
Doctors and nurses don't attack if your flashlight is turned off
There's also several different nurse models with slightly different attack/defense stats.
According to this interview, there's some kind of damage modifier when you hold a weapon at the ready. The longer you hold it, the more damage you take if an enemy hits you.
It always amazes me how weirdly intricate SH1 is at times for seemingly no reason. My last playthrough I was decided to mess around with the houses on Levin Street and realized that Harry has a separate falling animation depending on which way you have him fall off the porches. It serves zero purpose as no other area in the game has raised ledges, they just happen to make three entirely unique falling animations for an interactions most players will probably never see even on repeated playthroughs.
I wonder if the falling animations were made in anticipation of having more ledges to deal with. I've read an interview somewhere where the director said they initially wanted Harry to be able to climb over obstacles but wound up dropping it.
>I would argue that the first game has better gameplay
The gameplay is literally the same. SH2 monster are just tougher hence you need to spend more time in combat which is not that fun in any of the SH games.
>even though I hate horror shit. Looking forward to 3, though I have to beat 1
You're probably going to enjoy 1 and 3 more than 2. They have solid stories and the horror is even better than 2. Plus, they're better games, even if SH2 is the most iconic one
>I am curious as to how old more serious fans were when they first played SH2
Personally I was just teenager back when I played SH2 with my sister in 2002-2003. Shit was crazy at the time, we didn't understand everything about symbolism but everything about the atmospheric, visual and sound aspect of the game felt perfect.
I agree with this anon
the games feel way better when you stop overthinking and just embrace the atmosphere. You will miss certain things, but if you really want to understand more about it, you can always have a 2nd run or read what the developers have said about the game.
>Ito literally confirmed Pyramid Head is James's guardian angel.
Doesn't Pyramid Head has a similar role to the oneValtiel has with Heather/Cheryl? In the sense that they're making sure that the characters reach their expected goals (birth of God/facing his demons). I always asumed it was like that, since guardian angel implies that he was trying to protect and guide James, but doesn't feel like he's really trying to protect him
>doesn't feel like he's really trying to protect him
He does guide him. There is a cute scene at the hospital roof: James reads a diary of a suicidal mental patient, probably starts contemplating suicide too - and then Pyramid Head appears and throws James through the ceiling into a padded cell.
Thank God minorities and t*ans subhumans will never be able to taint this game.
>Fully remade to terrify modern audiences
>Openly admit to taking European Union money on their site
>Studio is staffed with basedjacks and mental illness haircuts
Oh anon..
I don’t know what you’re talking about. I’ll be able to enjoy Silent Hill 2 for the Sony PlayStation 2 for the rest of my life.
This is a good attitude to have, but remakes always shit up search results, unless they manage to piss off the average consumer the remake is going to replace the original.
onions s o y
Who gives two fricks about what normalgays think? Nothing will replace the original since no remake can suddenly erase the existence of the original.
Yet the Resident Evil remake has basically done this, it's a pain to find any info or even talk about the original because everyone just played the remake and since the whole world told them it's totally the same game but more they never will play the original.
The only thing I'll say im agreement is it'd be nice, of possible, for remakes to include the OG game as a plus as a nice little bonus, like the MediEvil remake.
Otherwise s'not my fault normalgays and newbies can't dicern the differences or read, especially when Wikipedia, articles, etc. state they're "Remakes" and they wouldn't care for the older games anyway because of "shit" graphics and the defacto line drawer that is "muh clunky" controls. Frick off with your autistic semantics bullshit. Remakes don't replace the originals. Plus you can always inform them yourselves.
>Wah wah but much search engines!
[GameTitle][Console] Not hard.
tl;dr Pic. related = you.
>it'd be nice, if possible, for remakes to include the OG game
If you start including the original game with more remakes even the thickest coombrained normie will start to realize they're paying five times the price for a worse product.
>using your brain actually ruins everything
lmao, no, what that part of your brain tried to tell you is that you've been consuming heaping portions of shit and it wants you to stop. Instead of listening you've decided to suppress it, so why not go all the way? Tell it to suppress the taste of poison and drink bleach. Put the poor thing out of its misery.
People pretend that Resident Evil before 7 doesn't exist. 4 was the sole exception but now that its remake is out, everyone forgot about the original as well
It's mature and confident in a way big budget games never are. Plays like absolute shit of course, but it's a respectable and important piece of actual art.
Reading this thread reminded me how insane SH2 fans are.
Silent Hill 2 is probably the most disappointing game I've ever played. The controls and overall gameplay were outdated even for its time, and the story and characters are half baked at best. With most games that I don't like I can usually get why people do like them, but I'm at a loss to explain this one.
The explanation is pretty simple, it was most people's introduction to the series. For fans of the first game it was basically the same gameplay wise with some minor improvements and while the story is almost entirely unrelated to the first it was good enough.
For first timers the story was a big deal since they had nothing to compare it to and it had a big focus on it, many a teenager went "WOW SO DEEP" with the whole twist and shit. I am not gonna act like it's irredeemable but the game is the absolute weakest in the first 4 with even The Room having a better story and characters.
Be honest. How many of y'all experienced Pyramid Head for the first time completely blind? Not spoiled at all by media/youtube/forums. I wanna know what it was like.
Honestly while it was kinda spooky my first instinct was to fight him, which ended with me dying like 5 times trying to fight him and that kind of ruined him for me the rest of the game when I knew all I had to do was run away. Still got into a few situations that made me pucker up.
Story wise I didn't get him until years later when all the loregays explained it to me, which honestly makes him far worse than the original spooky homie I tried to fight.
I thought it was just a introduction of a future boss fight. Didn't think he will play a bigger role in the game later. Honestly never saw the appeal of him.
The symbolism is all personal to the 3 characters. It's literally their inner demons manifested. Like how sh 1 was Alessa's inner demons.
Also just pay attention to all the water
>game has water and mold everywhere
>But the In Water ending is not canon according to SH2 fanboys
>game has maria everywhere
I'm thinking Maria end is canon
Too bad the series shat the bed after this
The series shat the bed with the first game, it just turns out a lot of people were into that.
True
The game is a stand alone story. It shares the setting and narrative from the first game. Team Silent was smart in making the series an anthology series right from the first sequel.
It's about a man's descent into hell about things he's tried to suppress from his past. It deals in psychological trauma like PTSD with Christian / Demonic / Native American Cult overtones. Not trying to say anything about Christianity and neither was the game.
The game is a powerhouse for the PS2. It released pretty early on and took advantage of the hardware.
https://twitter.com/Actually_Tina/status/1680236795555090432?t=bR-xg6igxmbg15AkYS2m8Q&s=19
It's ogre
Why don't you take a screencap for us, TwitterBlack person.
God I love Elon's new enforcement. It really puts into perspective just how many tourist homosexuals come here shitting up Ganker.
not my fault you cant use scripts
>scripts
Your first mistake was thinking I WANTED to see the post in the first place.
the story is kind of null and void because of how terribly the characters were handled, never understood the people who would say "yeah the characters suck but the story makes it worth it." sounds like they just don't know better or they're autistic so human emotions don't effect them anyway
it was a deliberate decision to make the game feel more detached and unnatural
literally bad on purpose, you're free to b***h about it if it bunches your panties that badly but that's how it is
well they did a great job. was my laughing every time the morons opened their mouths the intended effect too? odd for a character driven horror game