Nah at this point it really is psychic. Usually all special attackers and psychic types are always fragile as frick.
Bug has gotten improvements so has ice.
All the other types are represented well in the meta. Psychic type hasn't been relevant since Gen 1. And I should know zoomies and alphies
How the frick is this thread not dead yet?
Are people really this moronic? The weakest type is Psychic and it became Psychic when GF made knock off a staple/universal move tutor. Then you have U-turn which is very universal move and strong dark types like Incineroar, Single strike or Roaring Moon that just shuts Psychic down. I would add Kingambit to the list but from what I have heard he hasn't been doing so well.
Psychic still has some things going for it. Expanding Force was and is horseshit even if it's basically nonexistant now. Psychic Terrain allows for strong Psy-Spam teams that are basically just weaker versions of Rain teams.
Psychic is bad, but it's still got some gas left in the tank. Still better than Ice, Rock, and especially Normal after Return/Frustration were removed.
Normal is better because of Body Slam and Facade, and now Blood Moon Ursaluna
Rock is better because.... duh, Stone Edge
Ice is fricking amazing in gen 9
Psychic is the absolute worst type hands down. No competition. Even grass is miles better because of leech seed, powder moves, and hitting Swampert SE.
[...]
[...]
Nah at this point it really is psychic. Usually all special attackers and psychic types are always fragile as frick.
Bug has gotten improvements so has ice.
All the other types are represented well in the meta. Psychic type hasn't been relevant since Gen 1. And I should know zoomies and alphies
>Why Yes I only play singles format, a format for girls and children how could you tell?
>mawile don’t magically stop being shitmons just because of their type
Mawile's typing is the only thing it has going for it. You're talking about a Pokemon with a lower BST than Charmeleon. It's very clearly not indicative of the strength of Fairy/Steel.
>Articuno was relevant just this year.
and last year
why don't you stay in the shitty thread you made instead of shitting up the thread every time someone mentions singles
seething every time someone doesn't play the same thing as you do can't be healthy
I have no problem with people mentioning singles
I do have a problem with people conflating fanfic 6v6 shit with singles and pretending it's remotely relevant to the actual game
I was about to go for Aggron as my Steel type in Emerald until I realized this. Even with the terrible movepool, Skarmory seems like a better choice for the tanky steel gimmick.
For me, what kills Rock is how impractical most of the moves are. Rock has some really shit weaknesses, but also some good resistances, so it's not too hard to play around SE moves. But that doesn't help me when the only STAB attacks I have access to either have shit accuracy, a frickload of recoil damage, or both. And the only moves with some utility like Accelerock, Salt Cure, and Stone Axe are species-exclusive. I pretty much only ever want the Rock typing for STAB Rock Slide in Doubles.
Anything PU and below is a shitmon. Gen 9 RU could compete with Gen 8 OU. NU has Gyarados, Staraptor, Mew, Suicune, Infernape, Lucario, Magnezone, Raikou, Rotom-H, Swampert, Thundurus, Krookodile, Chansey, Heracross, Slowbro, Mienshao, and Reuniclus as of March 1st.
Grass, always been grass.
7 resisted hits, 5 weaknesses.
If it's grass it's the worst one in the group.
Virizion PU
Tapu Bulu RU (while other tapus are is OU)
Wo Chien PU
Ogerpon Teal Mask UU (While every other form is OU+
You literally can't defend this shit.
Only reason Grass types are ever used in Fanfiction Format is to absorb Spore since Game Freak is too moronic to bring back sleep clause. You're only allowed to have 1 Pokemon with Safety Goggles per team. If VGC removed Item Clause, there'd be more Pokemon running Safety Goggles than Pokemon in Singles running HDB and Leftovers combined.
Powder immunity is fricking useless, only good powder move is spore and the only mons that can learn it are also grass types.
Grass types fricking over grass types is a 0 net gain.
>Virizion PU
To be fair the swords of justice have always been shit save for Terrakion and Keldeo Resolute >Tapu Bulu RU (while other tapus are is OU)
Got powercrept hard by Rillaboom, was fine in Gen7 >Wo Chien PU
Dark is quite literally the worst type you can combine Grass with >Ogerpon Teal Mask UU (While every other form is OU+
So UU and viable in OU is considered bad now? The only reason she's lower than the rest is because she's monotype. This doesn't mean she's bad per se, just that every other mask is that outrageously broken.
>The only reason she's lower than the rest is because she's monotype
The masks giving damage boosts is a bonus as well. And Ivy Cudgel changing type to make up for Ogerpon's typical grass movepool.
Sues but you still get +1 speed on switch in with tera on top of the boost AND you can run an item. Plus Defiant in base. Sure it's still the worst mask but she's not bad by any means, "not OU by usage" shouldn't be a metric for whether a mon is good or not anymore because have you seen UU? Shit has quadruple regenerator cores now, it's complete decadence.
What's not taken into account with that argument is that you can only run 1 Ogerpon at a time as well. It's like how Calyrex-Ice sees no usage because Shadow is incredible and takes up the same dex slot.
It's okay because Waterpon is getting the axe next, you know Finch would rather ban every DLC mon before he even thinks of suspecting Ghold. Sure people will find a reason to use Teal over Cornerstone.
Grass is definitely bottom tier, but it's not THE bottom. The powder immunity is super helpful and grass types get access to sleep powder/spore which is the most reliable way to set up sleep. They also get leech seed and a lot of them can abuse sun. They also synergize well with other types: grass type teammates are very helpful for a lot of Pokémon, and even though a lot of dual grass types have 4x weaknesses there are others that end up being pretty good because of the grass type. The ground, electric, and water resistances are pretty clutch for a lot of Pokémon that need them.
I feel like there’s a weird double standard where Glaceon seems to be the most socially accepted Pokemon to sexualize only on the merits that it constantly dodges bullets whenever normies discover degenerate posts and turn them into unfunny memes.
Despite completely eclipsing Vaporeon’s search results, especially in Japan, Glaceon never gained a reputation for how many threads come up about wanting to frick it. Deviantart Latinas and Twitter troons like Gammainks and Oreon_Smol get celebrated for the same shit vaporeon gets clowned on for. It’s confusing as frick
It's bug, this topic shouldn't be divisive
Ice has always been powerful offensively but shit defensively, snow remedies this, bug isn't particularly strong offensively and gets shit on defensively, but the real catch is that most ice types aren't as outright bad in stats and movepool as bug types
Does Yawngay have some sort of autism regarding the percieved strength of types? It's always unsettling having to share the board with people that get set off at the strangest triggers, mention the wrong thing and now your thread is plagued by a schizo
>Does Yawngay have some sort of autism regarding the percieved strength of types?
Well whoever it is that took their time to make all those wojaks. Probably the same people who will vehemently argue against certain weak Pokemon getting a buff even if it doesn't involve their typings.
Snow doesn't actually remedy it. 9/10 Ice types are still dogshit. It's just the really good ones that can make better use of it than the average Ice types. That basically amounts to A-Ninetales, Calyrex-I, and Baxcalibur (and G-Darm if it comes back)
It's bug, this topic shouldn't be divisive
Ice has always been powerful offensively but shit defensively, snow remedies this, bug isn't particularly strong offensively and gets shit on defensively, but the real catch is that most ice types aren't as outright bad in stats and movepool as bug types
Bug is better because of its super effective against Psychic. Psychic is the worst type since it has no useful resistances or strengths against other elements. Fighting type is situational due to Fairy dominance and Poison is situational due to Ground dominance. Psychic is only good when paired up with another type such as Fairy or Steel. Furthermore its weaknesses are crippling, with almost every physical attacker running either Knock Off or U-turn. In short, Bug >>>>>>> Psychic.
Psychic really needs some better moves, but you're right that no amount of buffs will save the type from being weak to both Knock Off AND U-Turn. Only way I can see Psychic coming back is if the distribution of those two moves is severely limited like Scald and Toxic were, AND they get attacks with more than 90 BP, because the whole "glass cannon" archetype doesn't work when Steel types are way better at dealing damage.
There are no bad types, just bad pokemon. In that regard I would say bug probably has the largest ratio of shit pokemon to good pokemon out of any type because early bug shitmons used to a thing.
Ice resisting Water wouldn't make sense because ice melts in water. however, water also turns into ice in cold enough temperatures so i guess they could be weak to each other
The weather buff actually fit well with ice type.
Because they ARE the hardy type that lives in desolate allwayswinter areas. They seem fragile in battle, but when weather is right is their opponents who have hard type.
WHat do NOT make sense is how Heavy Snow raises Def where it should HARSHLY DROP SPEED for non ice types.
>it should HARSHLY DROP SPEED for non ice types
Watch as this becomes a Trick Room strategy for Pokemon that are "too fast for Trick Room and too slow for offense".
The worst type it's always been bug, no discussion about it >shit offensively because it's resisted by 7 types >shit defensively because resisting 3 types cannot compensate >pokemon with shit stats >only good bug type pokemons are good in spite of and not because the bug type
Also Ice might be better than before, but it's not a good type not even by chance. The absolute moronation of filling a blatantly fast offensive type with slow defenseive mons should not be foregiven and snow is just a distraction for that. Either change their stat distribution or give the type more defenses than itself.
It’s funny how campaignshitters always invent all these moronic rules about how they’re supposed to use Pokemon because of their extremely poor understanding of the game.
>GLASTRIER IS SLOW AND HAS HIGH DEFENSE STAT? THAT MUST MEAN I HAVE TO USE IT DEFENSIVELY! >GYARADOS IS WATER/FLYING TYPE AND ITS ATTACK IS HIGHER THAN ITS SPECIAL ATTACK? THAT MUST MEAN I HAVE TO USE A PHYSICAL WATER AND FLYING STABS ON IT! OTHERWISE IT’S BAD!! >I HAVE A CHOICE ITEM ON MY POKEMON? THAT MUST MEAN I SHOULDN’T EVER PUT STATUS MOVES ON IT! >DRAGON ONLY HITS ITSELF SUPER EFFECTIVELY? THAT MUST MEAN IT’S NOT A VERY GOOD OFFENSIVE TYPE
>THAT MUST MEAN I HAVE TO USE A PHYSICAL WATER AND FLYING STABS ON IT! OTHERWISE IT’S BAD!!
Well yeah thats how the game works too bad it doesnt get good flying stab so it usually runs crunch or ice fang
>GYARADOS IS WATER/FLYING TYPE AND ITS ATTACK IS HIGHER THAN ITS SPECIAL ATTACK? THAT MUST MEAN I HAVE TO USE A PHYSICAL WATER AND FLYING STABS ON IT!
well... yeah. duh?
>immediately proves his point
wew
maybe you should go start your 27th platinum playthrough, cynthia might be slightly less hard for you this time!
2 months ago
Anonymous
You don't compete, you never will, and if you did you'd lose horribly. Why do you care about anything beyond the campaign?
2 months ago
Anonymous
damn bro i guess water stab is good on it after all
2 months ago
Anonymous
How do I use physical water stab gyarados in emerald?
2 months ago
Anonymous
Sorry i dont know what "emerald" is.
2 months ago
Anonymous
I’m sorry you’re so ignorant, zoomie.
How do I use your time machine?
You don’t need a time machine to play emerald.
>I’VE CONSTRUCTED MULTIPLE STRAW MEN THAT MEANS I WON THE ARGUMENT
Imagine bragging about taking Pokémon seriously enough to play it competitively and flex on “campaign shitters”
I shudder at the thought. Embarrassing
>he thinks those are straw men
Aww poor little newbie
2 months ago
Anonymous
Who are you competitively playing Emerald against?
2 months ago
Anonymous
Probably against the strawmans he created LOL
2 months ago
Anonymous
Shut the frick up moron. I'm not talking to you and don't need your homosexual ass acting like we're butt buddies on an anonymous board.
2 months ago
Anonymous
I agree with this poster.
2 months ago
Anonymous
See, this is how you reply to conversations you're not involved in or contributing to. None of this homosexual teaming up to spam the same gay insult over and over.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Shut the frick up moron. I'm not talking to you and don't need your homosexual ass acting like we're butt buddies on an anonymous board.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Shut the frick up moron. I'm not talking to you and don't need your homosexual ass acting like we're butt buddies on an anonymous board.
See, this is how you reply to conversations you're not involved in or contributing to. None of this homosexual teaming up to spam the same gay insult over and over.
>samegayging this hard because two people agreed you're a moron
2 months ago
Anonymous
How do I use your time machine?
2 months ago
Anonymous
Who the frick is playing Gen III comp in Year of Our Lord 2024?
2 months ago
Anonymous
Lots of people. It's the most popular old-gen meta.
2 months ago
Anonymous
ADV OU is the most popular non-current-gen meta thanks to Jimothy Cool.
2 months ago
Anonymous
if it has a higher attack than special attack then why the frick would you pick a special stab over a physical stab unless the special had a secondary effect or something?
2 months ago
Anonymous
yeah why would you use special tyranitar over physical tyranitar? sure you won games because your opponent wasted time bringing in landorus to intimidate you while you one shot them with ice beam and you didn’t get crippled by burn and you broke through their walls by lowering their sp. def with max darkness but the number on the physical stat is higher therefore you have to use physical moves!! me smart at game me beat cynthia!
>GYARADOS IS WATER/FLYING TYPE AND ITS ATTACK IS HIGHER THAN ITS SPECIAL ATTACK? THAT MUST MEAN I HAVE TO USE A PHYSICAL WATER AND FLYING STABS ON IT!
well... yeah. duh?
>I’VE CONSTRUCTED MULTIPLE STRAW MEN THAT MEANS I WON THE ARGUMENT
Imagine bragging about taking Pokémon seriously enough to play it competitively and flex on “campaign shitters”
I shudder at the thought. Embarrassing
>GYARADOS IS WATER/FLYING TYPE AND ITS ATTACK IS HIGHER THAN ITS SPECIAL ATTACK? THAT MUST MEAN I HAVE TO USE A PHYSICAL WATER AND FLYING STABS ON IT! OTHERWISE IT’S BAD!!
The only exception to this rule is Nidoking running spec moves over phys due to Sheer Force boosts.
>shit offensively because it's resisted by 7 types
Yeah, it's not great offensively, but U-turn is the strongest move in the game so it balances out. >shit defensively because resisting 3 types cannot compensate
What did she mean by this? Bug resists Ground and Fighting, both of which are in the top 3 best offensive types in the game, while only being weak Flying, Rock, and Fire. Rock types are dogshit and is basically irrelevant outside of sneaky pebbles (which can be nullified with HDB). Flying types have basically disappeared from the meta after Game Freak overcompensated for Birdspam in Gen 6. Fire is a relatively rare type since few non-Fire types get it. Meanwhile Bug also resists Grass which is incredibly nice.
with shit stats
This isn't an argument, just like Dragon wasn't OP because it was filled with OP Pokemon in Gen 5. Garchomp being strong doesn't help Flygon, Druddigon, or Kingdra at all. Just like Beedrill and Dustox being shit doesn't hurt Volcarona or Pheromosa. >only good bug type pokemons are good in spite of and not because the bug type
Pheromosa
Buzzwole
Genesect
Volcarona
Heracross
Scolipede
Ribombee
Scizor
Slither Wing
Mega Beedrill
Mega Heracross
U-turn's distribution is insane, you don't even need to be a bug type to use it. Having a good move everyone can use doesn't make the type itself good. Plus Bug resisting ground and fighting is completely irrelevant when most ground and fighting types learn rock moves, sometimes fire. On top of that, bug is resisted by fighting, so it doesn't even get much for switching in. It's SE against Psychic and Dark, but you can't switch into those. Basically, bug only counters one type, Grass, except Bug is resisted by so many types that a decent chunk of dual typings can just erase that advantage. At best, Bug sometimes works well as a dual typing defensively, but on its own has a lot of flaws.
>U-turn's distribution is insane, you don't even need to be a bug type to use it
The same was true of Toxic, Knock Off, and Scald before Gen 9 happened. Game Freak very well could turn around and limit the distribution of U-turn in Gen 10 or 11 just because they feel like it.
That doesn't change the fact that it's the best move in the game and every Bug gets STAB U-turn. Same reason Dark types were good in Gens 6 and 7 before Game Freak limited the distribution of Knock Off. Sure, Toxapex, Victreebel, and Alakazam could hit you with a Knock Off, but getting hit by a Weavile's Knock Off was an entirely different beast.
>On top of that, bug is resisted by fighting, so it doesn't even get much for switching in
It gets to STAB U-turn on the very next turn to build momentum. Eating a Close Combat, forcing the opponent to switch, and then getting in the counter to their switch is actually really strong for positioning. There is nothing an opponent can do to stop you from using U-turn, that's what sets it apart from every other pivot move. Flip Turn, Teleport, Parting Shot, Chilly Reception, and Volt Switch can all be stopped. The only thing you can do to stop U-turn is to kill the U-turner.
>THAT MUST MEAN I HAVE TO USE A PHYSICAL WATER AND FLYING STABS ON IT! OTHERWISE IT’S BAD!!
Well yeah thats how the game works too bad it doesnt get good flying stab so it usually runs crunch or ice fang
Why do threads that mention the ice type always attract this one ultra autistic manchild who gets upset over the idea that a type should maybe resist more than just itself?
Anyway I'd say rock is the worst type at the moment. Ice can at least make use of aurora veil to pretend that it doesn't suck ass defensively. Rock just feels like a death sentence with all the common weaknesses it has. Especially when a lot of rock types are so slow.
rock's whole appeal in gen 1 was that it resisted normal, which most attacking moves were, but at the cost of having a lot of obvious weaknesses. but now steel exists and everything has coverage out the ass so rock has nothing to do.
Psychic kills fighting-types, just as Fairy does. But Fairy also hits the type that was designed specifically to counter Psychic. It trades effectiveness against Poison for that, but so does Steel with its interaction against Fire.
>Why do threads that mention the ice type always attract this one ultra autistic manchild who gets upset over the idea that a type should maybe resist more than just itself?
If you want him psychologically destroyed then Aurorus should get Power Gem.
Because Power Gem was heavily gatekept before gen 9. At this point (hopefully) it's because Aurorus isn't in Scarlet & Violet because Pokemon like Tyranitar, Garchomp, Hisuian Arcanine, and Ghouldengo can learn it and they don't have anything that resembles or allude to gems or crystals. If Aurorus doesn't ever get it despite all that then it means Game Freak is an absolute twat.
At least Aurorus has Aurora Veil now (and there are people who still believe it doesn't).
Ice/Rock would make for a cool offensive type because of how much those two types hit super effectively. The type was clealry meant to be a fast glass canon type, not a slow semi-defensive type
Sadly, both types get walled by Steel so even as an offensive combo it's not very good. That's not even counting being weak to a ridiculous amount of priority moves.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>That's not even counting being weak to a ridiculous amount of priority moves.
Why does it feel like Game Freak wanted to frick over a Pokemon?
And ROM hacks like Radical Red seemingly don't bother changing Aurorus's typing for some asinine reason since that's the #1 complaint about the Pokemon. If Luxray can be Electric/Dark (even though there's no actual reason why Luxray should have the Dark type) then Aurorus can be Ice/Electric or something else. The same shit that fricks over Aurorus in the official games is rearing its ugly head in ROM hacks as well and this comes across as the community upholding all the "doomed" and "unsalvageable" comments.
I'm honestly very tempted to make my own ROM hack that changes the typings and stats (reasonably) of fossil Pokemon and it won't be a difficulty hack, even though there would be some slight trainer changes (nothing major).
2 months ago
Anonymous
>Wouldn't be a difficulty hack (aka any more difficult than the piss easy baby games)
Your hack would be dead out of the water.
2 months ago
Anonymous
there exist abilities that block priority and coverage moves are a thing
if any future pokemon is a fast frail Rock/Ice type with good coverage and Dazzling/Queenly Majesty then it could be at least decent
I'm both involved in the first place and actively contributing something other than the same insult over and over again. Try being literate for once, mi amigo
No one realizes this but electric type pokemon (not the type but the pokemon themselves) are at an absolutely awful spot right now. Only the legendaries are useful. Only Rotom-W is UU among non-legendary and non-paradox, and arguably the second best with Rotom-H and Magnezone are already NU.
Not to mention GF intentionally fricked the physical side by making the FIRST WIDESPREAD PHYSICAL ELETRIC MOVE IN 13 YEARS SINCE WILD CHARGE BE FRICKING WORSE THAN IT.
But the point still stands. Only the legendary electric pokemon get decent treatment and if not then it's a frick you from Gamefreak.
Not to mention electric type pokemon as a whole are one-note and extremely boring
you’re right fairy needs a buff because granbull and wigglytuff are bad
2 months ago
Anonymous
How disingenuous of you.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Pokemon like Azumarill and Clefable exist to prove that wrong. Something that doesn't need the over-inflated BST of a legendary in order to still remain competent.
2 months ago
Anonymous
> Pokemon like Azumarill and Clefable exist to prove that wrong
You mean like Pawmot and Bellibolt?
2 months ago
Anonymous
Shitmons?
2 months ago
Anonymous
If Clefable and Azumarill aren’t shitmons then neither are they.
And what do they prove? That even with a broken move like Revival Blessing, a decent spread and movepool(unlike other electrics) you are still going to be mediocre at best?
Yeah bro it’s not like Huge Power isn’t one of the most broken abilities in the game or anything
2 months ago
Anonymous
Explain yourself.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Are you seriously comparing Clef to those two? Pawmot literally needs tera electric just to spam Double Shock even when it has access to Iron Fist Thunderpunch because electric physical are just not that worth it.
2 months ago
Anonymous
> Are you seriously comparing Clef to those two?
Yes.
If anything both are better than Clefable is. Clefable has little to no value outside of fanfic 6v6 switch 100 times per game stally format.
2 months ago
Anonymous
And what do they prove? That even with a broken move like Revival Blessing, a decent spread and movepool(unlike other electrics) you are still going to be mediocre at best?
2 months ago
Anonymous
People think those have low bst but they actually have 495 and 490 bst which aren't that low. Compare those to "traditionally strong" mons like Scizor or Gengar which only have 500 and VGC's favorite mushroom which has only 464.
I thought Rotom forms had low bst but they actually have 520 bst, meaning there are no viable electric types with under a 500 bst which is boring.
>Supercell Slam >Bad
Most Pokemon that have both prefer Supercell Slam.
If you see Wild Charge over it on the analysis pages, it’s because they aren’t updated.
That's just new toy syndrome. Who's gonna bother running Electivire or Zebstrika if it wasn't to try out the new move? Anyone smart enough will know not to touch that thing in OU or VGC.
Maybe the lower tiers where Supercell Slam users reside have less ground types so it might be better but overall it's still a worse option.
Why the hell did they make a Jump Kick clone when they could've made it a High Jump Kick clone? Why does GameFreak like seeing physical electrics suffer?
Hail's replacement. No longer deals chip damage to Pokemon that don't have the Ice type but in return increases the Defense of Ice type Pokemon by 50%.
So in a nutshell every Pokemon with Snow Warning gets a free boost to their Defense stat.
So, like Sandstorm for rocks but less features now?
Hail's biggest problem was that it would damage your whole team if you weren't running a full squad of Ice-types. Snow fixes this, and lets you more freely run the weather without worrying about overcommiting to one type. They also added a signature move for the two Slowking forms that casts Snow and switches out.
Abilities that required Hail to be active like Slush Rush, Snow Cloak, and Ice Body still work. They were changed to require Snow instead. Blizzard also retains it's accuracy boost.
Hail's biggest problem was that it would damage your whole team if you weren't running a full squad of Ice-types. Snow fixes this, and lets you more freely run the weather without worrying about overcommiting to one type. They also added a signature move for the two Slowking forms that casts Snow and switches out.
Abilities that required Hail to be active like Slush Rush, Snow Cloak, and Ice Body still work. They were changed to require Snow instead. Blizzard also retains it's accuracy boost.
Snow is better than Sandstorm and the other weather abilities because not only does slowking forms cast snow and switch out but Snow has access to Aurora Veil which reduces physical and sp-atk damage moves by 1/3. Add on to ice takes taking 50% less damage from physical moves and using mons with Intimidate results in the enemy team physical attacker mons doing barely any damage to ice types.
>Snow has access to Aurora Veil which reduces physical and sp-atk damage moves by 1/3
It’s 1/2nd, not 1/3rd.
You only get 1/3rd with an Ice type + Veil under Snow and this only applies to Def.
+4 0 Atk Mew Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur: 346-408 (93.2 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+4 0 Atk Mew Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur with an ally's Aurora Veil: 173-204 (46.6 - 54.9%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO
+4 0 Atk Mew Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur in Snow: 232-274 (62.5 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+4 0 Atk Mew Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur in Snow with an ally's Aurora Veil: 116-137 (31.2 - 36.9%) -- 76.3% chance to 3HKO
Plus mons like Articuno who has snow cloak so that makes them even strong.
And before anyone says no we are not playing by smogon shit format but by VGC. Doubles will always be the superior battle style instead of shit singles.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>Doubles will always be the superior battle style
lol
2 months ago
Anonymous
take your single stall format to smogon homosexual. Doubles will be superior since it has more options going on and is faster pace.
Ugly very true, but extremely effective. Chilly Reception is pretty broken on a slow bulky mon with regenerator, even if Psychic is still a bad typing due to knock off.
Hail's replacement. No longer deals chip damage to Pokemon that don't have the Ice type but in return increases the Defense of Ice type Pokemon by 50%.
So in a nutshell every Pokemon with Snow Warning gets a free boost to their Defense stat.
the worst defensive type is fighting, because literally zero mons would benefit from a defensive tera fighting.
bug: useful if you want to resist ground and fighting without being weak to ice and electric
psychic: good tera for rock type mons that want to resist fighting while also losing their weakness to steel and hitting iron hands and amoonguss supereffectively (useful in vgc)
ice: even ice has a niche, if you want a raging bolt that resists ice, gains +1 def in snow and loses its ground weakness without gaining a grass weakness (you know, ogerpon)
No, articuno should. Its whole lore is about bringing snow with it just like moltres brings spring with it. The birds should’ve gotten the weather abilities when hidden abilities got introduced
I'd probably put normal a bit higher than Psychic and Bug.
I also think Fire is wildly overrated here. It should be like... 11th.
Other than that, good list.
>I'd probably put normal a bit higher than Psychic and Bug.
Not after all the nerfs it's gotten. Removing Frustration/Return really, really hurt the type. Imagine if you removed Earthquake. Ground would go from being one of the best types to being bottom 5.
everyone is saying bug but it's actually rock.
rock has literally zero redeeming qualities. where good bug types or ice types still benefit from their typing in less direct ways, such as quiver dance, sticky webs, snow abuse, etc. the only thing rocks get for being rock type is the least reliable STAB in the game and a spdef boost in the worst weather condition. seriously, just compare megahorn to stone edge. it's fricking sad. every single rock type, save for ttar who sets its own sand, would be better off not being a rock type.
the type inherently needs insane bullshit a la glimmora/garganacl or massively inflated BST to even be usable. so, simply put, rock is unequivocally the worst type in the entire game.
fun fact, it's also the only type that has never had a mon in ubers save for its token arceus form. even bug has genesect and pheromosa. even normal has mega kanga and bloodmoon ursaluna. hell, ice has three ubers from this gen alone. but there are literally no rock types in the entire history of pokemon that have ever been too good for OU.
read the rest of my post before you reply, please. as i already stated, being a bug type generally means you have access to unique bug-type moves like quiver dance and sticky web. sand is and always has been irrelevant, sand teams have never existed, and the best sand mon is excadrill who isn't even rock type.
and while i'll give you rock moves being good offensively, they're a coverage type. you DON'T want rock STAB, you want actually good stab and then access to stone edge on the side.
to explain further, due to the unreliability of rock moves, they're terrible choices for your main option. if your best attacking move is stone edge, and you need two hits to knock something out, 1/3rd of the time you're just flat out going to fail to KO because of a miss.
rock moves are best as coverage moves because you're relying on other moves for consistent damage and only clicking stone edge against specific targets or when your best options would otherwise be ineffective.
Rock is a great offensive type. Rock slide being a must staple in doubles, the format that only matters
>gains rock type >instantly goes from incineroar at home to one of the best pokemon even with dlc power creep
Because it still has good stats, intimidate is meta and the rock typing makes it even better as a offensive mon with intimidate and still has a 90 base which is solid. So the Rock typing actually helped Arcanine.
Only in Doubles
The best format so thanks for pointing that out anon.
No one asked for Avalugg to have a regional form in the first place. Not even Sandstorm can save it from a neutral special attack considering how slow Avalugg is. (32 -> 48 in Sandstorm)
What's funny is that as the meta developed, people started to realize Normal was the problem child of Gen 1 and not Psychic. Alakazam fears the Chansey/Tauros/Snorlax
this thread is fricking hilarious to read for people who actually play PvP. Psychic is the worst type? Even though it's one of the most common archetypes right now? Really?
do you have hard numbers or are you just gonna get pissy at people who play the format the games themselves train them for
2 months ago
Anonymous
>do you have hard numbers
My hard numbers are the fact that it's the formats that are actually on cart and not a simulator that only a tiny fraction of the fanbase uses.
Are you an esl or just a moron?
Are you an esl or just a moron?
2 months ago
Anonymous
Pokemon Showdown isn't a tiny fraction of the competitive fanbase. It's probably 40 - 50% of the comp fanbase. Competitive overall only amounts to probably 5% of the Pokemon fanbase however. The majority of people who play Pokemon are consooomers who just buy the newest slop every year just like they buy the yearly FIFA or Madden.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>Pokemon Showdown isn't a tiny fraction of the competitive fanbase
Yes it is.
>It's probably 40 - 50% of the comp fanbase
You only think this because you don't actually play the game so your only exposure to PvP is staring at fanfic tier lists.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>My hard numbers are the fact that it's the formats that are actually on cart and not a simulator that only a tiny fraction of the fanbase uses.
hold on anon I have a link for you
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy
2 months ago
Anonymous
I’m glad you’ve learned what fallacies are and realized you’re wrong.
Smogon is way larger than you think. That's why so many people seethe about them. If it was just a small community no one would care if Smogon was suspect testing Last Resort in Ubers. It's only because Smogon is so big that people throw a shitfit about it.
No. People seethe about smogon because of their fanfiction meta rules and think they have to play by smogon rules when they don't. Plus it is the same anons crying about smogon in the first place on /vp. The pokemon community is much larger than people think and majority have not even heard of smogon.
The only real power smogon has in Ubers. Anything else is a joke. If morons can't figure out they don't have to play by smogon small community rules oh well.
Back on topic, ice type offensive capabilities caps its defensive issues and Snow/Veil helps ice types bulk problem. If we are talking about the weakest type in terms of offensive and defensive capability, it will be bug. Psychic is still a strong offensive type even if dark types and knock off gets in their way.
>play campaign >too afraid of losing to actually play PvP but want to pretend you're knowledgeable about PvP >stare at tier lists and watch False Swipe Gaming videos
why don't you stay in the shitty thread you made instead of shitting up the thread every time someone mentions singles
seething every time someone doesn't play the same thing as you do can't be healthy
Cool! I’ll use a water-type! >don’t have STAB >don’t have freeze-dry >don’t have icicle crash >don’t have ice spinner >don’t have ice shard >don’t have sheer cold >don’t have snow defense boost >don’t have aurora veil >proceed to lose
Water is terrible because of its Electric weakness and the fact that it's massively outclassed by Ground and Rock offensively, and unlike Water, those types both resist Electric. Defensively it's only good for Toxic stall, and even then Garganacl's presence makes Water very undesirable in OU. Even in UU Naclstack is a legitimate threat.
It has always been Bug
Bug has some broken moves, psychic is the most useless type
Nah at this point it really is psychic. Usually all special attackers and psychic types are always fragile as frick.
Bug has gotten improvements so has ice.
All the other types are represented well in the meta. Psychic type hasn't been relevant since Gen 1. And I should know zoomies and alphies
How the frick is this thread not dead yet?
Are people really this moronic? The weakest type is Psychic and it became Psychic when GF made knock off a staple/universal move tutor. Then you have U-turn which is very universal move and strong dark types like Incineroar, Single strike or Roaring Moon that just shuts Psychic down. I would add Kingambit to the list but from what I have heard he hasn't been doing so well.
Psychic still has some things going for it. Expanding Force was and is horseshit even if it's basically nonexistant now. Psychic Terrain allows for strong Psy-Spam teams that are basically just weaker versions of Rain teams.
Psychic is bad, but it's still got some gas left in the tank. Still better than Ice, Rock, and especially Normal after Return/Frustration were removed.
Normal is better because of Body Slam and Facade, and now Blood Moon Ursaluna
Rock is better because.... duh, Stone Edge
Ice is fricking amazing in gen 9
Psychic is the absolute worst type hands down. No competition. Even grass is miles better because of leech seed, powder moves, and hitting Swampert SE.
>Why Yes I only play singles format, a format for girls and children how could you tell?
Why should we care about any other format? Do you think Contests or the Battle Pyramid affect viability too?
Still Ice followed by bug
moron
Cry smogBlack person
Bug has always been the worst type in the series. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a moron who never plays PvP.
>moron
>never plays PvP
pick one
>only good pokemon are good because of stats, abilities, and moves
that’s literally how every good pokemon works
tinkaton and mawile don’t magically stop being shitmons just because of their type
>shitmon
>fairy type
Choose one
tinkaton and mawile
>Mawile
>fairy/steel
>shitmon
Competitive Pokemon was a mistake
yeah? shit type combinations and poor stats still work in single player
Not really, Rock is the only type that might as well be a nerf to have.
yeah bro tyranitar is nerfed by getting a free 50% sp def boost and one of the best STABs ever and you definitely play the game
Ice is too. 1 resistance and 4 weaknesses. It's not even that good offensively. It's outclassed by Ground, Fighting, Fire, Rock, and Water.
Ice is a great coverage type but only for offensive mons. Defensively it offers nothing. You basically need snow are aurora veil to use it defensively
Rock is also great for coverage, especially for Ground types. Loads of Ground types run Rockslide as coverage against Flying types.
>mawile don’t magically stop being shitmons just because of their type
Mawile's typing is the only thing it has going for it. You're talking about a Pokemon with a lower BST than Charmeleon. It's very clearly not indicative of the strength of Fairy/Steel.
Yes just like how Delibird being a shitmon clearly isn’t indicative of the strength of Ice/Flying.
Ice/Flying was really good in Gen 1, and it can still be serviceable in modern gens. Articuno was relevant just this year.
>Articuno was relevant just this year.
and last year
I have no problem with people mentioning singles
I do have a problem with people conflating fanfic 6v6 shit with singles and pretending it's remotely relevant to the actual game
I was about to go for Aggron as my Steel type in Emerald until I realized this. Even with the terrible movepool, Skarmory seems like a better choice for the tanky steel gimmick.
For me, what kills Rock is how impractical most of the moves are. Rock has some really shit weaknesses, but also some good resistances, so it's not too hard to play around SE moves. But that doesn't help me when the only STAB attacks I have access to either have shit accuracy, a frickload of recoil damage, or both. And the only moves with some utility like Accelerock, Salt Cure, and Stone Axe are species-exclusive. I pretty much only ever want the Rock typing for STAB Rock Slide in Doubles.
>only good pokemon are good because of stats, abilities, and moves
Dragon type in a nutshell
>if it's not OU it's a shitmon
lolololol
What’s an OU? I’m talking about the game.
Anything PU and below is a shitmon. Gen 9 RU could compete with Gen 8 OU. NU has Gyarados, Staraptor, Mew, Suicune, Infernape, Lucario, Magnezone, Raikou, Rotom-H, Swampert, Thundurus, Krookodile, Chansey, Heracross, Slowbro, Mienshao, and Reuniclus as of March 1st.
>farigiraf is a shitmon
this is your brain on fanfic moronation
Oh it's fricking dogshit. It does nothing outside of support in VGC. Try using it in singles and watch it do nothing.
The powercreep made everything a lost cause anyway.
Grass, always been grass.
7 resisted hits, 5 weaknesses.
If it's grass it's the worst one in the group.
Virizion PU
Tapu Bulu RU (while other tapus are is OU)
Wo Chien PU
Ogerpon Teal Mask UU (While every other form is OU+
You literally can't defend this shit.
play the game
>No grass types top 6
you just proved my point.
steel confirmed worst type
> lets slap op stats on misdreavus and call it a new pokemon !!!
paradox mons were a hideous mistake
>two off
shame
but still, paradox mons WERE mistake
Only reason Grass types are ever used in Fanfiction Format is to absorb Spore since Game Freak is too moronic to bring back sleep clause. You're only allowed to have 1 Pokemon with Safety Goggles per team. If VGC removed Item Clause, there'd be more Pokemon running Safety Goggles than Pokemon in Singles running HDB and Leftovers combined.
Bug's weak to Stealth Rock.
Poweder move immunity bumps grass up. Poison only has immunity to poison which is just a worse burn. Bug has no special property.
Powder immunity is fricking useless, only good powder move is spore and the only mons that can learn it are also grass types.
Grass types fricking over grass types is a 0 net gain.
Rage Powder is better than Spore.
>Virizion PU
To be fair the swords of justice have always been shit save for Terrakion and Keldeo Resolute
>Tapu Bulu RU (while other tapus are is OU)
Got powercrept hard by Rillaboom, was fine in Gen7
>Wo Chien PU
Dark is quite literally the worst type you can combine Grass with
>Ogerpon Teal Mask UU (While every other form is OU+
So UU and viable in OU is considered bad now? The only reason she's lower than the rest is because she's monotype. This doesn't mean she's bad per se, just that every other mask is that outrageously broken.
I'd argue that Grass/Psychic is worse than Grass/Dark. Dark at least has an immunity and several resistances to common types.
>The only reason she's lower than the rest is because she's monotype
The masks giving damage boosts is a bonus as well. And Ivy Cudgel changing type to make up for Ogerpon's typical grass movepool.
Sues but you still get +1 speed on switch in with tera on top of the boost AND you can run an item. Plus Defiant in base. Sure it's still the worst mask but she's not bad by any means, "not OU by usage" shouldn't be a metric for whether a mon is good or not anymore because have you seen UU? Shit has quadruple regenerator cores now, it's complete decadence.
What's not taken into account with that argument is that you can only run 1 Ogerpon at a time as well. It's like how Calyrex-Ice sees no usage because Shadow is incredible and takes up the same dex slot.
It's okay because Waterpon is getting the axe next, you know Finch would rather ban every DLC mon before he even thinks of suspecting Ghold. Sure people will find a reason to use Teal over Cornerstone.
the worst type to combine grass with is bug
I changed my mind. It is grass. Grass is hands down the worst type in the game. Offensively and defensively.
Grass is definitely bottom tier, but it's not THE bottom. The powder immunity is super helpful and grass types get access to sleep powder/spore which is the most reliable way to set up sleep. They also get leech seed and a lot of them can abuse sun. They also synergize well with other types: grass type teammates are very helpful for a lot of Pokémon, and even though a lot of dual grass types have 4x weaknesses there are others that end up being pretty good because of the grass type. The ground, electric, and water resistances are pretty clutch for a lot of Pokémon that need them.
>Grass is definitely bottom tier
play the game
>Ice types no longer suck
They better still suck
idc what u say, even if a crow can resolve a mathematical question, it doesnt mean you can still frick it
You can frick anything
How is it creepy?
Why are people such fricking creeps with Glaceon?
never had human intimacy IRL
This.
I feel like there’s a weird double standard where Glaceon seems to be the most socially accepted Pokemon to sexualize only on the merits that it constantly dodges bullets whenever normies discover degenerate posts and turn them into unfunny memes.
Despite completely eclipsing Vaporeon’s search results, especially in Japan, Glaceon never gained a reputation for how many threads come up about wanting to frick it. Deviantart Latinas and Twitter troons like Gammainks and Oreon_Smol get celebrated for the same shit vaporeon gets clowned on for. It’s confusing as frick
Don't worry, Hisuian Avalugg still exists unfortunately
Out of spite for Glaceongays, I hope they stay the worst.
The less likely it ever appears in VGC, the better
It's bug, this topic shouldn't be divisive
Ice has always been powerful offensively but shit defensively, snow remedies this, bug isn't particularly strong offensively and gets shit on defensively, but the real catch is that most ice types aren't as outright bad in stats and movepool as bug types
>It's bug, this topic shouldn't be divisive
OP just wanted to bait Yawngay.
Does Yawngay have some sort of autism regarding the percieved strength of types? It's always unsettling having to share the board with people that get set off at the strangest triggers, mention the wrong thing and now your thread is plagued by a schizo
>Does Yawngay have some sort of autism regarding the percieved strength of types?
Well whoever it is that took their time to make all those wojaks. Probably the same people who will vehemently argue against certain weak Pokemon getting a buff even if it doesn't involve their typings.
if he wanted to bait yawngay he'd've said ice needed a buff.
Ice needs exp share turned off.
Snow doesn't actually remedy it. 9/10 Ice types are still dogshit. It's just the really good ones that can make better use of it than the average Ice types. That basically amounts to A-Ninetales, Calyrex-I, and Baxcalibur (and G-Darm if it comes back)
real answer is rock
Bug has always been the worst time, moron. Ice just had a lot of shit pokemon.
Bug is better because of its super effective against Psychic. Psychic is the worst type since it has no useful resistances or strengths against other elements. Fighting type is situational due to Fairy dominance and Poison is situational due to Ground dominance. Psychic is only good when paired up with another type such as Fairy or Steel. Furthermore its weaknesses are crippling, with almost every physical attacker running either Knock Off or U-turn. In short, Bug >>>>>>> Psychic.
Psychic really needs some better moves, but you're right that no amount of buffs will save the type from being weak to both Knock Off AND U-Turn. Only way I can see Psychic coming back is if the distribution of those two moves is severely limited like Scald and Toxic were, AND they get attacks with more than 90 BP, because the whole "glass cannon" archetype doesn't work when Steel types are way better at dealing damage.
There are no bad types, just bad pokemon. In that regard I would say bug probably has the largest ratio of shit pokemon to good pokemon out of any type because early bug shitmons used to a thing.
I still want ice to have real resistances and idc what excuses anyone makes or if snow is a buff.
THEY
SHOULD
NOT
NEED
SNOW
Well it cant resist water because Pokemon refuses to nerf water types the most OP of them all.
Ice resisting Water wouldn't make sense because ice melts in water. however, water also turns into ice in cold enough temperatures so i guess they could be weak to each other
Having them be weak to each other would make Freeze Dry irrelevant.
okay then Scald becomes super effective on Ice types and nothing else changes
plenty of people use Chien-Pao and Baxcalibur and Mamoswine without snow. Are you sure you're not just shit at the game?
See that's the problem, all the viable ice types look like DOGSHIT.
The weather buff actually fit well with ice type.
Because they ARE the hardy type that lives in desolate allwayswinter areas. They seem fragile in battle, but when weather is right is their opponents who have hard type.
WHat do NOT make sense is how Heavy Snow raises Def where it should HARSHLY DROP SPEED for non ice types.
>it should HARSHLY DROP SPEED for non ice types
Watch as this becomes a Trick Room strategy for Pokemon that are "too fast for Trick Room and too slow for offense".
The worst type it's always been bug, no discussion about it
>shit offensively because it's resisted by 7 types
>shit defensively because resisting 3 types cannot compensate
>pokemon with shit stats
>only good bug type pokemons are good in spite of and not because the bug type
Also Ice might be better than before, but it's not a good type not even by chance. The absolute moronation of filling a blatantly fast offensive type with slow defenseive mons should not be foregiven and snow is just a distraction for that. Either change their stat distribution or give the type more defenses than itself.
Barely any ice types are defensive. If you’re using something like Glastrier or Frosmoth defensively you’re playing the game wrong.
>Barely any ice types are defensive.
Certainly not Lapras, Cloyster(pre-shell smash), Articuno, Regice, Walrein, Avalugg, Aurorus, or Arctovish.
>it has a high defense stat so that means it’s defensive
It’s funny how campaignshitters always invent all these moronic rules about how they’re supposed to use Pokemon because of their extremely poor understanding of the game.
>GLASTRIER IS SLOW AND HAS HIGH DEFENSE STAT? THAT MUST MEAN I HAVE TO USE IT DEFENSIVELY!
>GYARADOS IS WATER/FLYING TYPE AND ITS ATTACK IS HIGHER THAN ITS SPECIAL ATTACK? THAT MUST MEAN I HAVE TO USE A PHYSICAL WATER AND FLYING STABS ON IT! OTHERWISE IT’S BAD!!
>I HAVE A CHOICE ITEM ON MY POKEMON? THAT MUST MEAN I SHOULDN’T EVER PUT STATUS MOVES ON IT!
>DRAGON ONLY HITS ITSELF SUPER EFFECTIVELY? THAT MUST MEAN IT’S NOT A VERY GOOD OFFENSIVE TYPE
>my choice band toxic user is so good
lmao
>immediately proves his point
wew
maybe you should go start your 27th platinum playthrough, cynthia might be slightly less hard for you this time!
You don't compete, you never will, and if you did you'd lose horribly. Why do you care about anything beyond the campaign?
damn bro i guess water stab is good on it after all
How do I use physical water stab gyarados in emerald?
Sorry i dont know what "emerald" is.
I’m sorry you’re so ignorant, zoomie.
You don’t need a time machine to play emerald.
>he thinks those are straw men
Aww poor little newbie
Who are you competitively playing Emerald against?
Probably against the strawmans he created LOL
Shut the frick up moron. I'm not talking to you and don't need your homosexual ass acting like we're butt buddies on an anonymous board.
I agree with this poster.
See, this is how you reply to conversations you're not involved in or contributing to. None of this homosexual teaming up to spam the same gay insult over and over.
Shut the frick up moron. I'm not talking to you and don't need your homosexual ass acting like we're butt buddies on an anonymous board.
>samegayging this hard because two people agreed you're a moron
How do I use your time machine?
Who the frick is playing Gen III comp in Year of Our Lord 2024?
Lots of people. It's the most popular old-gen meta.
ADV OU is the most popular non-current-gen meta thanks to Jimothy Cool.
if it has a higher attack than special attack then why the frick would you pick a special stab over a physical stab unless the special had a secondary effect or something?
yeah why would you use special tyranitar over physical tyranitar? sure you won games because your opponent wasted time bringing in landorus to intimidate you while you one shot them with ice beam and you didn’t get crippled by burn and you broke through their walls by lowering their sp. def with max darkness but the number on the physical stat is higher therefore you have to use physical moves!! me smart at game me beat cynthia!
why the hell would you put ice beam on tyranitar
To hit Dragons.
>GYARADOS IS WATER/FLYING TYPE AND ITS ATTACK IS HIGHER THAN ITS SPECIAL ATTACK? THAT MUST MEAN I HAVE TO USE A PHYSICAL WATER AND FLYING STABS ON IT!
well... yeah. duh?
>I’VE CONSTRUCTED MULTIPLE STRAW MEN THAT MEANS I WON THE ARGUMENT
Imagine bragging about taking Pokémon seriously enough to play it competitively and flex on “campaign shitters”
I shudder at the thought. Embarrassing
>GYARADOS IS WATER/FLYING TYPE AND ITS ATTACK IS HIGHER THAN ITS SPECIAL ATTACK? THAT MUST MEAN I HAVE TO USE A PHYSICAL WATER AND FLYING STABS ON IT! OTHERWISE IT’S BAD!!
The only exception to this rule is Nidoking running spec moves over phys due to Sheer Force boosts.
Water/Ice is alright defensively
also didn't somebody just win VGC with Articuno?
>shit offensively because it's resisted by 7 types
Yeah, it's not great offensively, but U-turn is the strongest move in the game so it balances out.
>shit defensively because resisting 3 types cannot compensate
What did she mean by this? Bug resists Ground and Fighting, both of which are in the top 3 best offensive types in the game, while only being weak Flying, Rock, and Fire. Rock types are dogshit and is basically irrelevant outside of sneaky pebbles (which can be nullified with HDB). Flying types have basically disappeared from the meta after Game Freak overcompensated for Birdspam in Gen 6. Fire is a relatively rare type since few non-Fire types get it. Meanwhile Bug also resists Grass which is incredibly nice.
with shit stats
This isn't an argument, just like Dragon wasn't OP because it was filled with OP Pokemon in Gen 5. Garchomp being strong doesn't help Flygon, Druddigon, or Kingdra at all. Just like Beedrill and Dustox being shit doesn't hurt Volcarona or Pheromosa.
>only good bug type pokemons are good in spite of and not because the bug type
Pheromosa
Buzzwole
Genesect
Volcarona
Heracross
Scolipede
Ribombee
Scizor
Slither Wing
Mega Beedrill
Mega Heracross
U-turn's distribution is insane, you don't even need to be a bug type to use it. Having a good move everyone can use doesn't make the type itself good. Plus Bug resisting ground and fighting is completely irrelevant when most ground and fighting types learn rock moves, sometimes fire. On top of that, bug is resisted by fighting, so it doesn't even get much for switching in. It's SE against Psychic and Dark, but you can't switch into those. Basically, bug only counters one type, Grass, except Bug is resisted by so many types that a decent chunk of dual typings can just erase that advantage. At best, Bug sometimes works well as a dual typing defensively, but on its own has a lot of flaws.
>U-turn's distribution is insane, you don't even need to be a bug type to use it
The same was true of Toxic, Knock Off, and Scald before Gen 9 happened. Game Freak very well could turn around and limit the distribution of U-turn in Gen 10 or 11 just because they feel like it.
That doesn't change the fact that it's the best move in the game and every Bug gets STAB U-turn. Same reason Dark types were good in Gens 6 and 7 before Game Freak limited the distribution of Knock Off. Sure, Toxapex, Victreebel, and Alakazam could hit you with a Knock Off, but getting hit by a Weavile's Knock Off was an entirely different beast.
>On top of that, bug is resisted by fighting, so it doesn't even get much for switching in
It gets to STAB U-turn on the very next turn to build momentum. Eating a Close Combat, forcing the opponent to switch, and then getting in the counter to their switch is actually really strong for positioning. There is nothing an opponent can do to stop you from using U-turn, that's what sets it apart from every other pivot move. Flip Turn, Teleport, Parting Shot, Chilly Reception, and Volt Switch can all be stopped. The only thing you can do to stop U-turn is to kill the U-turner.
>THAT MUST MEAN I HAVE TO USE A PHYSICAL WATER AND FLYING STABS ON IT! OTHERWISE IT’S BAD!!
Well yeah thats how the game works too bad it doesnt get good flying stab so it usually runs crunch or ice fang
As everyone else has said, Bug and Rock.
The types that fallen hardest from grace are Psychic and Normal.
Why do threads that mention the ice type always attract this one ultra autistic manchild who gets upset over the idea that a type should maybe resist more than just itself?
Anyway I'd say rock is the worst type at the moment. Ice can at least make use of aurora veil to pretend that it doesn't suck ass defensively. Rock just feels like a death sentence with all the common weaknesses it has. Especially when a lot of rock types are so slow.
rock's whole appeal in gen 1 was that it resisted normal, which most attacking moves were, but at the cost of having a lot of obvious weaknesses. but now steel exists and everything has coverage out the ass so rock has nothing to do.
This brings us to the next topic: when will GF nuke the steel type once and for all
hopefully never
The same exists with Fairy and Psychic now.
No it’s literally not the same at all. The types are different in every single way except the common fighting resist
Psychic kills fighting-types, just as Fairy does. But Fairy also hits the type that was designed specifically to counter Psychic. It trades effectiveness against Poison for that, but so does Steel with its interaction against Fire.
>Why do threads that mention the ice type always attract this one ultra autistic manchild who gets upset over the idea that a type should maybe resist more than just itself?
If you want him psychologically destroyed then Aurorus should get Power Gem.
How the frick does it not already know it…
Because Power Gem was heavily gatekept before gen 9. At this point (hopefully) it's because Aurorus isn't in Scarlet & Violet because Pokemon like Tyranitar, Garchomp, Hisuian Arcanine, and Ghouldengo can learn it and they don't have anything that resembles or allude to gems or crystals. If Aurorus doesn't ever get it despite all that then it means Game Freak is an absolute twat.
At least Aurorus has Aurora Veil now (and there are people who still believe it doesn't).
Ice/Rock would make for a cool offensive type because of how much those two types hit super effectively. The type was clealry meant to be a fast glass canon type, not a slow semi-defensive type
Sadly, both types get walled by Steel so even as an offensive combo it's not very good. That's not even counting being weak to a ridiculous amount of priority moves.
>That's not even counting being weak to a ridiculous amount of priority moves.
Why does it feel like Game Freak wanted to frick over a Pokemon?
And ROM hacks like Radical Red seemingly don't bother changing Aurorus's typing for some asinine reason since that's the #1 complaint about the Pokemon. If Luxray can be Electric/Dark (even though there's no actual reason why Luxray should have the Dark type) then Aurorus can be Ice/Electric or something else. The same shit that fricks over Aurorus in the official games is rearing its ugly head in ROM hacks as well and this comes across as the community upholding all the "doomed" and "unsalvageable" comments.
I'm honestly very tempted to make my own ROM hack that changes the typings and stats (reasonably) of fossil Pokemon and it won't be a difficulty hack, even though there would be some slight trainer changes (nothing major).
>Wouldn't be a difficulty hack (aka any more difficult than the piss easy baby games)
Your hack would be dead out of the water.
there exist abilities that block priority and coverage moves are a thing
if any future pokemon is a fast frail Rock/Ice type with good coverage and Dazzling/Queenly Majesty then it could be at least decent
>ip count didnt go up
>schizo is talking to himself now
ESLs think repeating things is the height of comedic insults.
Stop being my butt buddy. Im not talking to you!
I'm both involved in the first place and actively contributing something other than the same insult over and over again. Try being literate for once, mi amigo
I still dont want to frick you, Pablo.
This thread got very… hormonal, to say the least
Yet for some reason its fricking working. Either /vp is board or it is full of morons. Most likely both.
>Psychic is the worst type
No one realizes this but electric type pokemon (not the type but the pokemon themselves) are at an absolutely awful spot right now. Only the legendaries are useful. Only Rotom-W is UU among non-legendary and non-paradox, and arguably the second best with Rotom-H and Magnezone are already NU.
Not to mention GF intentionally fricked the physical side by making the FIRST WIDESPREAD PHYSICAL ELETRIC MOVE IN 13 YEARS SINCE WILD CHARGE BE FRICKING WORSE THAN IT.
Electric has always gotten the short end of the stick. They almost never get any decent coverage options.
why couldn't wild charge be an electric flare blitz....
Raging Bolt being 10x better than every other electric type doesn't make the whole type bad
But the point still stands. Only the legendary electric pokemon get decent treatment and if not then it's a frick you from Gamefreak.
Not to mention electric type pokemon as a whole are one-note and extremely boring
electric shouldn’t be good physically just like fighting shouldn’t be good specially
the phys/spec split was a mistake
Then they should stop making physical electric-types.
Iron Hands is literally one of the best Pokemon in the game. Stop being bad.
>legendary-tier pokemon is good
Yeah, that totally makes up for Electivire and Zebstrika.
>Zebstrika
Getting High Horsepower was nice.
It was, but it's still a total shitmon.
It's something though. Pokemon that deemed unsalvageable or not good for a playthrough should still get some buffs you know.
you’re right fairy needs a buff because granbull and wigglytuff are bad
How disingenuous of you.
Pokemon like Azumarill and Clefable exist to prove that wrong. Something that doesn't need the over-inflated BST of a legendary in order to still remain competent.
> Pokemon like Azumarill and Clefable exist to prove that wrong
You mean like Pawmot and Bellibolt?
Shitmons?
If Clefable and Azumarill aren’t shitmons then neither are they.
Yeah bro it’s not like Huge Power isn’t one of the most broken abilities in the game or anything
Explain yourself.
Are you seriously comparing Clef to those two? Pawmot literally needs tera electric just to spam Double Shock even when it has access to Iron Fist Thunderpunch because electric physical are just not that worth it.
> Are you seriously comparing Clef to those two?
Yes.
If anything both are better than Clefable is. Clefable has little to no value outside of fanfic 6v6 switch 100 times per game stally format.
And what do they prove? That even with a broken move like Revival Blessing, a decent spread and movepool(unlike other electrics) you are still going to be mediocre at best?
People think those have low bst but they actually have 495 and 490 bst which aren't that low. Compare those to "traditionally strong" mons like Scizor or Gengar which only have 500 and VGC's favorite mushroom which has only 464.
I thought Rotom forms had low bst but they actually have 520 bst, meaning there are no viable electric types with under a 500 bst which is boring.
Iron Hands is mediocre outside of doubles.
>Supercell Slam
>Bad
Most Pokemon that have both prefer Supercell Slam.
If you see Wild Charge over it on the analysis pages, it’s because they aren’t updated.
That's just new toy syndrome. Who's gonna bother running Electivire or Zebstrika if it wasn't to try out the new move? Anyone smart enough will know not to touch that thing in OU or VGC.
Maybe the lower tiers where Supercell Slam users reside have less ground types so it might be better but overall it's still a worse option.
Why the hell did they make a Jump Kick clone when they could've made it a High Jump Kick clone? Why does GameFreak like seeing physical electrics suffer?
Physical electric types aren’t supposed to be good.
Fricking this, the rotoms just have all the best stats and actual coverage most electrics are missing also
>Physical electric pokemon
Ice is still the worst, but the gap between it and 2nd worst has shrunk by like 80%, and honestly that's a fair place to be.
What the hell is snow
Hail got retconned. It no longer damages, but it does increase the defense of ice-types.
So, like Sandstorm for rocks but less features now?
Hail's biggest problem was that it would damage your whole team if you weren't running a full squad of Ice-types. Snow fixes this, and lets you more freely run the weather without worrying about overcommiting to one type. They also added a signature move for the two Slowking forms that casts Snow and switches out.
Abilities that required Hail to be active like Slush Rush, Snow Cloak, and Ice Body still work. They were changed to require Snow instead. Blizzard also retains it's accuracy boost.
Snow is better than Sandstorm and the other weather abilities because not only does slowking forms cast snow and switch out but Snow has access to Aurora Veil which reduces physical and sp-atk damage moves by 1/3. Add on to ice takes taking 50% less damage from physical moves and using mons with Intimidate results in the enemy team physical attacker mons doing barely any damage to ice types.
>Snow has access to Aurora Veil which reduces physical and sp-atk damage moves by 1/3
It’s 1/2nd, not 1/3rd.
You only get 1/3rd with an Ice type + Veil under Snow and this only applies to Def.
+4 0 Atk Mew Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur: 346-408 (93.2 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+4 0 Atk Mew Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur with an ally's Aurora Veil: 173-204 (46.6 - 54.9%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO
+4 0 Atk Mew Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur in Snow: 232-274 (62.5 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+4 0 Atk Mew Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur in Snow with an ally's Aurora Veil: 116-137 (31.2 - 36.9%) -- 76.3% chance to 3HKO
Plus mons like Articuno who has snow cloak so that makes them even strong.
And before anyone says no we are not playing by smogon shit format but by VGC. Doubles will always be the superior battle style instead of shit singles.
>Doubles will always be the superior battle style
lol
take your single stall format to smogon homosexual. Doubles will be superior since it has more options going on and is faster pace.
>I have ADHD
>Gen 9
>Stall
moron alert!
>slowking forms
But they're ugly.
Ugly very true, but extremely effective. Chilly Reception is pretty broken on a slow bulky mon with regenerator, even if Psychic is still a bad typing due to knock off.
Hail's replacement. No longer deals chip damage to Pokemon that don't have the Ice type but in return increases the Defense of Ice type Pokemon by 50%.
So in a nutshell every Pokemon with Snow Warning gets a free boost to their Defense stat.
I always thought Rock was pretty ass and thought what it does, Ground and Steel can often do better.
Stealth Rock being the type's greatest crutch.
the worst defensive type is fighting, because literally zero mons would benefit from a defensive tera fighting.
bug: useful if you want to resist ground and fighting without being weak to ice and electric
psychic: good tera for rock type mons that want to resist fighting while also losing their weakness to steel and hitting iron hands and amoonguss supereffectively (useful in vgc)
ice: even ice has a niche, if you want a raging bolt that resists ice, gains +1 def in snow and loses its ground weakness without gaining a grass weakness (you know, ogerpon)
Tera fight helps you survive Kingambit's Sucker Punches while boosting your own Gambit's Low Kick. It's rare but definitely sees play.
No weakest type is Psychic. That is why GF keeps pairing it with so many secondary types.
Glaceon should get Snow Warning
Would be better than icy body.
No, articuno should. Its whole lore is about bringing snow with it just like moltres brings spring with it. The birds should’ve gotten the weather abilities when hidden abilities got introduced
>Since Ice Types no longer suck
Not even on my dick or balls?
Stay the frick away from my Aurorus you freak.
1. Fairy
2. Steel
3. Ghost
4. Water
5. Ground
6. Fire
7. Flying
8. Fighting
9. Dark
10. Dragon
11. Electric
12. Poison
13. Grass
14. Bug
15. Psychic
16. Normal
17. Rock
18. Ice
ranking bug anywhere other than last is probably the easiest way to tell if someone doesn't actually play pvp
I play singles. Bug is good defensively and has U-turn, Sticky Webs, and Mega Horn. You have to only play VGC if you think Bug is the worst.
>I play 6v6 clown format
ftfy
6v6 singles is real Pokemon. It's how the game was designed since Red and Green came out 10 years before you were born.
> It's how the game was designed since Red and Green
Yes, and? No one plays NC97 but people still play Gen 1 6v6 singles
U-turn benefits non-bugs a whole lot more than it benefits bug type.
U-turn is the best move in the game. Bug types receive STAB on it so that's something.
I'd probably put normal a bit higher than Psychic and Bug.
I also think Fire is wildly overrated here. It should be like... 11th.
Other than that, good list.
>I'd probably put normal a bit higher than Psychic and Bug.
Not after all the nerfs it's gotten. Removing Frustration/Return really, really hurt the type. Imagine if you removed Earthquake. Ground would go from being one of the best types to being bottom 5.
What's the worst Arceus form?
Just looked up Ubers usage and it's Bug, then Ice, then Dragon (not worth running over Fairy, I guess).
Dragon is a terrible type due to Fairy. Easily one of the worst in the game.
Normal. Bug has utility for it's STAB users at least.
everyone is saying bug but it's actually rock.
rock has literally zero redeeming qualities. where good bug types or ice types still benefit from their typing in less direct ways, such as quiver dance, sticky webs, snow abuse, etc. the only thing rocks get for being rock type is the least reliable STAB in the game and a spdef boost in the worst weather condition. seriously, just compare megahorn to stone edge. it's fricking sad. every single rock type, save for ttar who sets its own sand, would be better off not being a rock type.
the type inherently needs insane bullshit a la glimmora/garganacl or massively inflated BST to even be usable. so, simply put, rock is unequivocally the worst type in the entire game.
fun fact, it's also the only type that has never had a mon in ubers save for its token arceus form. even bug has genesect and pheromosa. even normal has mega kanga and bloodmoon ursaluna. hell, ice has three ubers from this gen alone. but there are literally no rock types in the entire history of pokemon that have ever been too good for OU.
> rock has literally zero redeeming qualities
It has some of the best offensive moves in the game and a free defensive boost in sand.
Bug literally does fricking nothing. It’s just Grass but with drastically less utility and less useful resistances.
read the rest of my post before you reply, please. as i already stated, being a bug type generally means you have access to unique bug-type moves like quiver dance and sticky web. sand is and always has been irrelevant, sand teams have never existed, and the best sand mon is excadrill who isn't even rock type.
and while i'll give you rock moves being good offensively, they're a coverage type. you DON'T want rock STAB, you want actually good stab and then access to stone edge on the side.
to explain further, due to the unreliability of rock moves, they're terrible choices for your main option. if your best attacking move is stone edge, and you need two hits to knock something out, 1/3rd of the time you're just flat out going to fail to KO because of a miss.
rock moves are best as coverage moves because you're relying on other moves for consistent damage and only clicking stone edge against specific targets or when your best options would otherwise be ineffective.
>have access to unique bug-type moves like quiver dance
Barely any bug types get this.
>and sticky web
Barely any bug types get this and is also rarely worth using outside of clown 6v6 formats.
> sand is and always has been irrelevant, sand teams have never existed,
Play the game
if you're not going to argue in good faith, i suppose there's no point in continuing this discussion. have fun pretending to be moronic, i guess.
>you’re not arguing in good faith because you don’t agree with me!!!
tired meme
Rock is a great offensive type. Rock slide being a must staple in doubles, the format that only matters
Because it still has good stats, intimidate is meta and the rock typing makes it even better as a offensive mon with intimidate and still has a 90 base which is solid. So the Rock typing actually helped Arcanine.
The best format so thanks for pointing that out anon.
>gains rock type
>instantly goes from super niche to utter dogshit
No one asked for Avalugg to have a regional form in the first place. Not even Sandstorm can save it from a neutral special attack considering how slow Avalugg is. (32 -> 48 in Sandstorm)
>gains rock type
>instantly goes from incineroar at home to one of the best pokemon even with dlc power creep
Only in Doubles
It’s rock. Why would you use rock when stealth rock exists.
The people saying Rock are probably right and Game Freak is too much of a b***h to do anything.
I'll be honest, I have the sensation that rock is so bland as a type that GF just forgets about it, so they never get meaningful attention
they made Garg I guess?
It's not the worst type, but I want to give a shoutout to how absolutely horrible and powercrept Psychic is. Only being kept alive by Terrain memes.
Gen 1 psychic was a nightmare because of bad coding and it has been paying for that ever since
What's funny is that as the meta developed, people started to realize Normal was the problem child of Gen 1 and not Psychic. Alakazam fears the Chansey/Tauros/Snorlax
this thread is fricking hilarious to read for people who actually play PvP. Psychic is the worst type? Even though it's one of the most common archetypes right now? Really?
VGC isn't the only competitive format. Smogon is just as popular.
>Smogon is just as popular
Not even remotely close. Even BSS 3v3 is more popular than Smogon’s fanfic.
All Smogon formats combined add up to about 2.5 million battles monthly. That's up there with the amount of people who play VGC.
>That's up there with the amount of people who play VGC
you're right
there's way more than that amount who play BSS and BSD though
do you have hard numbers or are you just gonna get pissy at people who play the format the games themselves train them for
>do you have hard numbers
My hard numbers are the fact that it's the formats that are actually on cart and not a simulator that only a tiny fraction of the fanbase uses.
Are you an esl or just a moron?
Pokemon Showdown isn't a tiny fraction of the competitive fanbase. It's probably 40 - 50% of the comp fanbase. Competitive overall only amounts to probably 5% of the Pokemon fanbase however. The majority of people who play Pokemon are consooomers who just buy the newest slop every year just like they buy the yearly FIFA or Madden.
>Pokemon Showdown isn't a tiny fraction of the competitive fanbase
Yes it is.
>It's probably 40 - 50% of the comp fanbase
You only think this because you don't actually play the game so your only exposure to PvP is staring at fanfic tier lists.
>My hard numbers are the fact that it's the formats that are actually on cart and not a simulator that only a tiny fraction of the fanbase uses.
hold on anon I have a link for you
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy
I’m glad you’ve learned what fallacies are and realized you’re wrong.
Smogon fanfiction is a small town community with pedos lurking. No way is smogon more popular then VGC
Smogon is way larger than you think. That's why so many people seethe about them. If it was just a small community no one would care if Smogon was suspect testing Last Resort in Ubers. It's only because Smogon is so big that people throw a shitfit about it.
No. People seethe about smogon because of their fanfiction meta rules and think they have to play by smogon rules when they don't. Plus it is the same anons crying about smogon in the first place on /vp. The pokemon community is much larger than people think and majority have not even heard of smogon.
The only real power smogon has in Ubers. Anything else is a joke. If morons can't figure out they don't have to play by smogon small community rules oh well.
Back on topic, ice type offensive capabilities caps its defensive issues and Snow/Veil helps ice types bulk problem. If we are talking about the weakest type in terms of offensive and defensive capability, it will be bug. Psychic is still a strong offensive type even if dark types and knock off gets in their way.
Are you an esl or just a moron?
All I'm getting from this thread is what not the worst type is but how fricking desperate vgcgays are in need of validation
more like campaignshitters who do nothing but stare at tier lists need validation.
>Campaign
>Tier lists
VGCissies have lost the plot.
>play campaign
>too afraid of losing to actually play PvP but want to pretend you're knowledgeable about PvP
>stare at tier lists and watch False Swipe Gaming videos
>too afraid of losing to actually play PvP but want to pretend you're knowledgeable about PvP
But 6v6 is actual PvP. VGC is a separate format.
Please show me where the 6v6 option is.
>deflection
concession accepted
That's not deflection. I accept your concession however.
why don't you stay in the shitty thread you made instead of shitting up the thread every time someone mentions singles
seething every time someone doesn't play the same thing as you do can't be healthy
This is bait right? ice still sucks thanks to water having coverage.
Cool! I’ll use a water-type!
>don’t have STAB
>don’t have freeze-dry
>don’t have icicle crash
>don’t have ice spinner
>don’t have ice shard
>don’t have sheer cold
>don’t have snow defense boost
>don’t have aurora veil
>proceed to lose
There's no way this is a genuine post. There is no way you don't think water is a top 3 type.
Water is terrible because of its Electric weakness and the fact that it's massively outclassed by Ground and Rock offensively, and unlike Water, those types both resist Electric. Defensively it's only good for Toxic stall, and even then Garganacl's presence makes Water very undesirable in OU. Even in UU Naclstack is a legitimate threat.
Does Ice being good mean I can use Weavile now?
Sure why not
>smogon vs vgc