The game as a whole needs significant changes. >too many campy projectile spammers, not fun to play against >too many anime swordsmen >online is fricking shit >online matchmaking is fricking shit >no Break the Targets >everything is super fast with no end lag, nothing is punishable anymore, it's like they said "melee is fast and people like that so let's make ultimate fast" without actually thinking about how to do that properly >proper edgeguarding rarely works, hence why everyone just "edgeguards" by standing above the ledge and spamming short hop aerials >too many characters taking up a character slot when they should be an alt costume
You're not really gonna be able to change Sonic being contractually obligated to run circles around everyone else.
Unless you, like make Sonic explode after a minute, Sonic players will continue being homosexuals even if you give him Battle/Frontiers moves.
I don't even think it's his speed that is the problem. His moveset is honestly just fricking boring with three fricking specials that are "turn into a ball", two of which feel and look fairly similar. He and his play style just aren't interesting to play as or fight.
>Sonic is completely revamped next game to be based largely on Frontiers and boost games, doesn't even spin dash anymore >old moveset is now retained via Classic Sonic, the only newcomer this series gets
>But is that really a reason to place him under Dr Mario or Little Mac
I really don't think you understand how bad of a detriment having a hurtbox of his size is.
>Shitcena continues to drop
lol people finally realizing that boring b***h is nowhere near as good as she's hyped up to be.
Shame about Zero Suit though but that was expected.
Also based Yoshi showing people he is that damn good.
Yes. Doc also has good aerials, decent enough ground, and a solid projectile. His problem's always been bad air movement and the 2nd worst recovery in the game.
Mac's ground game and speed are very good, and while his recovery isnt good its not godawful anymore. He has something he can do in the air now even if he's still the absolute worst in the air.
How many players that use Terry do the motions for his special moves?
All of them. No reason not to. They're not even hard to do, though Rising Tackle can be kinda annoying to combo into.
>Mr. Nig & Watch that high
Sonic and Steve I agree its a similar playstyle too, just hit and run like a homosexual and run the timer, Steve is more hardcore though because he can also make a wall and waste even more time he gets under your skin or just wins by time out if he has a % or stock advantage.
>Snake high tier
who the frick that is relevant mains him nowadays... He is strong but cmon >Fox
besides Light who the frick is good with him lol
>Sora that high >Wario one of the fastest characters in the air with the fart that can kill with a combo from 0% that low >Bayonetta that high >PIKACHU one of the best recoveries in the game, best offense, good combos, nice projectile that low
A lot of takes here are moronic
very slow, bad recovery, Little Mac got buffed all those patches, Ganon didnt
>Snake high tier
It turns out that being a fat frick with a frame 1 combo breaker in a game with no hitstun is an extremely easy way to get to 160 so you get your free kill confirm grab that you get because ?????
Because Sakurai refuses to make him good. He's a glass cannon because he can't recover and has no get-off-me-tools. Ganondorf is the Smash equivalent of a Slow, Frail, Mixed Attacker in Pokemon. Ganondorf is fricking Cacturne.
I can understand Ganondorf being Low tier in offline tournament.
However this tier list is cap if you're only an Online player. Ganondorf, DDD, King K.Rool, Zelda are way more annoying than Sonic, Fox, Diddy Kong and Sheik online.
Ganondorf can easily take a stock with his Nair, Jab, Up-air. These moves are not slow at all.
Compgays. I have played Snake and I make him look like the bottomest of bottom tiers tier. Meanwhile when I play Ike or K.Rool I wreck everyone. We are all a bunch of scrubs playing during lunch recess at work so there's 0 tryharding going on
I dropped smash like 6 years ago because everyone that I played against in tournament smelled like shit but playing against a sonic player is genuinely one of the worst experiences you can have in gaming
Everyone that plays sonic is either a complete pussy or an actual homosexual as well. After getting into street fighter and other actual fighting games I see why everyone hates smash players
He was always an annoying little shit, but anyone with a half decent projectile can be a c**t back to him
As opposed to mojangman and his empire of dirt
>Characters that appeal to autists and trannies (Minecraft, Sonic, Persona, Xenoblade) are all S tier >Characters that based dudes would probably choose such as Dedede, K Rool, Ganon, and Simon are bottom tier
I think it has more to do with what kind of person plays competitive smash lol
The game's meta has gone in the absolutely worst direction at the end of its life
I hope the next Smash game winds up better, but, as a competitor, I'm also getting too old to care
It's so fricking funny that the shittiest addition to the game is also absolutely fricking broken. Like it wasn't bad enough just how utterly offensive he is to look at.
It's funny that while making the most deliberate attempt at a competitive smash game they also made the most fun casual smash game. I can literally just main the random button, every character is just innately enjoyable to play as even if you don't know high level tech bullshit.
Melee players also used to play PM, then Nintendo made sure it'd never be allowed to have major tournaments again. PM actually used to have a lot of players from brawl and Melee both.
Competitive anything is always the worst thing to happen to that game's community. Compgays will optimize all of the fun out of a game, demand it be enforced on all players by the devs, and still not realize that only 1% of them are actually as good at the game as they all believe themselves to be.
Ultimate's meta has always been kind of shit, and even if FP2 was the final nail in the coffin, the limited microspacing, combo, and edgeguarding options was always a problem. You get like 2 seconds top of advantage against is an obnoxious character like Sonic then it's back to neutral where he's free to reset his gameplan of running away and mixing you up from the opposite side of the stage. Ultimate is the most mechanically no-fun Smash game there is since they made it an effort to get rid of cool stuff for most characters. Even without Fighters Pass 2, you still have cancerous characters like ROB, G&W, Sonic, Samus, and Lucina/Roy. Game's just boring outside of a casual free for all.
Is it really that bad? Even with a banlist? Iknow I slept on smash ultimate and only play casually with whoever wants to at the time but I always thought it was the best smash bros
Did everyone revert back to Melee then? IS there a melee scene after Hungrybox won melee? Whats mewtwoking been up to
Base Ultimate was okay. FP1 made the game worse but it was still fun. FP2 added so many overpowered and abhorrently gimmicky characters that half the matchups don't even feel like you're playing smash bros anymore. Yes, it's that bad.
As for melee, nobody "reverted" to it. The majority of people who play smash ultimate aren't melee players and never were. There's more overlap between top ult players and PM than there is melee. Meleegays just really like melee.
You're not wrong, but also the problem is >You get like 2 seconds top of advantage
doesn't apply to the actual good characters
Steve gets 70% off of a single advantage, G&W traps you into a juggle situation for half a minute, ROB 0 to deaths you, etc. while the majority of other characters just get 1 or 2 piece hits
This is why the meta has gone to shit
These characters are not only good at camping, but win off of very few interactions; so the best way to play against them is to play safe and slow
>Peach hasn't done much relevant in recent tournaments
Watch more tournaments. >This tier list is fairly old, a year to be exact
This is the second tier list, released today.
It's literally just Umeki, and even his results are all over the the place
Is it really that bad? Even with a banlist? Iknow I slept on smash ultimate and only play casually with whoever wants to at the time but I always thought it was the best smash bros
Did everyone revert back to Melee then? IS there a melee scene after Hungrybox won melee? Whats mewtwoking been up to
>Did everyone revert back to Melee then?
Melee is dying as well, but that has more to due with Nintendo making it difficult for the game to survive
It's actually kind of insane how much FP2 ruined the game
I thought they'd have learned their lesson after Cloud and Bayonetta in Smash 4
Ultimate's meta has always been kind of shit, and even if FP2 was the final nail in the coffin, the limited microspacing, combo, and edgeguarding options was always a problem. You get like 2 seconds top of advantage against is an obnoxious character like Sonic then it's back to neutral where he's free to reset his gameplan of running away and mixing you up from the opposite side of the stage. Ultimate is the most mechanically no-fun Smash game there is since they made it an effort to get rid of cool stuff for most characters. Even without Fighters Pass 2, you still have cancerous characters like ROB, G&W, Sonic, Samus, and Lucina/Roy. Game's just boring outside of a casual free for all.
They didn’t learn shit, it’s hilarious how there’s a series called “Sakurai when designing” parodying the process of him designing characters in weird strange ways.
He was never top tier
People were just being hyperbolic on social media because he gameplan of fishing for 0 to deaths the entire game if obnoxious and stressful to play against
He literally just better Luigi
The latter. He's too slow and everyone has learned to jump around him, camp him, combo the frick out of him, etc.
How many players that use Terry do the motions for his special moves?
All of them. Why wouldn't they?
Competitive smash was the worst thing to happen to smash bros. Frick this! I’m going back to playing brawl and project m
>Competitive smash was the worst thing to happen to smash bros
Playing casually is even more cancerous. Nowadays there's so many instakill items and broken summons that last a million years, plus the single player modes suck.
The game's meta has evolved into shit, Anon
Basically, FP2 shifted the meta hard towards patient and campy gameplay (mainly due to the addition of Steve), so G&W being an extremely safe character ended up catapulting him to relevancy in the meta
Sonic was always good, but it took the meta shift for him to really start dominating since his safe campy gameplay and high reward advantage state basically counter a lot of the current S tier characters
They released Steve and dissolved the development team that was doing patches
Basically, they released Steve, knew he was likely unfinished due to him being developed through remote work due to COVID, and then abandoned the game
When steve came out most top players evaluated him to be a mid/low tier and he wasn't nearly as much of a problem as it is now. The steve hysteria happened when a few no-name zoomers picked the character up after the game's development ended and started taking sets off of established top players.
When steve came out most top players evaluated him to be a mid/low tier and he wasn't nearly as much of a problem as it is now. The steve hysteria happened when a few no-name zoomers picked the character up after the game's development ended and started taking sets off of established top players.
Which is mainly because Steve was released during COVID era when very few offline tournaments existed
People were doing well with Steve, but it was written off as "it's just online"
The whole "it's just wifi" and "lmao wifi warrior" copes died really fast after COVID era and all the "wifi warriors" and "online charcters" started doing well offline
There were 4 characters released after Steve, moron
When steve came out most top players evaluated him to be a mid/low tier and he wasn't nearly as much of a problem as it is now. The steve hysteria happened when a few no-name zoomers picked the character up after the game's development ended and started taking sets off of established top players.
[...]
Which is mainly because Steve was released during COVID era when very few offline tournaments existed
People were doing well with Steve, but it was written off as "it's just online"
The whole "it's just wifi" and "lmao wifi warrior" copes died really fast after COVID era and all the "wifi warriors" and "online charcters" started doing well offline
Reminder
Steve:
>Character gets to place blocks with collision in a platform fighter, giving him top tier space control, including offstage >and a projectile that command grabs you >And top-tier sword normals that get better if you don't constantly keep him under pressure >Which you can't do safely because his blocks mean he can rig enemy approaches in his favor
thats not what a command grab is you moron... im a melee gay and even i know. no wonder why fgc nigs hate smash gays.
command grab is just a grab that has a command imput before.
>Unlike regular throws, command grabs often require a command motion
Kazuya has a "command grab" there u go
3 months ago
Anonymous
Smash and other fighting games have different terminology with the same terms
A command grab is any move outside of a normal grab that grabs an opponent and (typically) beats shield
3 months ago
Anonymous
Steve literally has a command grab by that definition. The command is ->+B.
3 months ago
Anonymous
well yeah you got me thats technically a command its just not 1 button but you get what i mean.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>command grab is just a grab that has a command imput before.
So minecart then.
2025 is not that hard to believe if the Switch 2 comes out this year. They usually have Smash on it within a year or two.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I honestly wouldn't mind Smash coming out later if it means we can have a game with a lot of content on all fronts, instead of either "big roster with small single player" or "big single player but small roster"
3 months ago
Anonymous
>my first wait for a Smash game is Ultimate
3 months ago
Anonymous
I've been around since Melee. Smash games are usually 6-7 years apart. Ultimate came out in 2018. 2025 would be right on the dot at 7 years.
3 months ago
Anonymous
except Melee didn't have fricking DLC development back then and the 4s'wait was even longer.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Brawl came out January 31, 2008. Smash for the 3DS came out September 13, 2004. Thats 6 years and about 8 months. If Smash 6 comes out September 2025, it would still be the longest gap between Smash games.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Smash for the 3DS came out September 13, 2004. >came out after Melee
No wonder it was so good
G&W has a very strong advantage state
He can basically juggle you from 0 to 70 with little to no way for you escape
He has a get-out-of-jail-free card in using his UpB out of shield
He also has cheese with Dsmash buries and good edge guarding and some of the best ledge trapping in the game
Playing against Game & Watch is like trying to catch a leaf in the breeze that's constantly emitting hitboxes. When you finally get close to catch the leaf, it either turns itself into a disjointed hitbox or gets blown up by a strong breeze and you reset to neutral. Also the leaf is playing the floor is lava with your chatacter.
That placing is probably incorrect at this point in time
Peach hasn't done much relevant in recent tournaments
This tier list is fairly old, a year to be exact
>Peach hasn't done much relevant in recent tournaments
Watch more tournaments. >This tier list is fairly old, a year to be exact
This is the second tier list, released today.
Melee took an astounding 13 months of rushed development and still turned out great, meanwhile Ultimate began right after Smash 4 which ended in late 2015 and when you factor in all the DLC, Ultimate ended in late 2021 with Sora so that’s like 6 years give or take? unless you want to count Smash 4 and Ultimate as one since Sakurai loves to kill himself making these games.
its the proof modern soulless devs are just lazy fricks that dont want to work hard and make something fun because that takes effort. Also many people you thought were great back then turned out to become hacks nowadays.
>Melee took an astounding 13 months of rushed development and still turned out great
Not really
It's a happy accident that people like playing the few viable characters in the game, but outside of those characters you find poor balance and a large number of unfinished characters like G&W literally having a shield that doesn't cover his body because it was copy and pasted from Mario's data
64 shouldn't be lumped with nu-Smash. It's not a perfect game but it has it's own cool mechanics and combo game that outshine the newer games by a mile.
Please, having cheap boosts and near full life recovery is broken. GF should be theoretically vulnerable to getting brawled, no one will be able to catch them.
Yeah slippi was always just a "practice tool" in the sense you can just queue up and find a near LAN-level match. What did you think it was supposed to be? Its use case for hosting serious tournaments has been obsolete ever since covid ended.
>Its use case for hosting serious tournaments has been obsolete ever since covid ended.
I suppose, but being able to have large events that didn't require people to travel was huge even after COVID
Slippi tournaments helped breath new life in to the game, and the game needs that to survive
>I suppose, but being able to have large events that didn't require people to travel was huge even after COVID
There's still tons of netplay tournaments being hosted for it. You're just not gonna win a supermajor on slippi. It's still inherently worse and less fun than playing in person regardless of how good it is. Nintendo's meddling is vastly overexaggerated. Microsoft owns start.gg and officially supports netplay melee tournaments despite all of the baggage such a concept carries with nintendo's legal department.
I don't want to invest thousands of hours into learning esoteric mechanics to compete with autists who solved the game a decade ago, only to be banned from playing if I accidentally misgender my opponent.
>it's real
my god, ultimate really is doomed. can't say i'm surprised, although sad to see sakurai couldn't get off his ass for two seconds and nerf steve
Melee is always fun even if you have lost reflexes, its more about drilling than reflexes, most motions just become second nature when you drill them its like learning to play guitar or excersising, just acquire good form and it will happen automatically.
when the frick are we getting rollback for Rivals workshop that shit should be a priority even if it's extremely difficult to get working without desyncs
that shit looks super hard with the imput readings there but its really just simple habits that were drilled out and years of experience. Melee is like learning an instrument, once its habit it stays a long time and you can improvise what you drilled thats why its so good.
Smash unironically need to retvrn. After the fighters pass there is just so much over-elaborate gimmicky bullshit in the game now it's just tiresome. You've got the original dudes where UP B GO UP DOWN B GO DOWN is as complicated as they get, and then you've got characters with meters and form changes and command input moves and building walls and fricking crafting. Anyone could have told them on paper that a character like Steve is a dumb fricking idea and is just too much, so much shit and still nothing in the game is as satisfying as hitting a falcon punch.
Because there was a time when the best characters were stuff people liked fighting and watching like Joker or Wolf. Also patches held the promise of really obnoxious shit being nerfed
I accepted a long time ago that he would never rank high, but I am surprised to see him right at the bottom here. At the least, could have seen him in D.
Can change the terrain with his blocks
Literally every move is useful
Shits out damage for little effort
Minecart is a kill move that doubles as a mobile command grab
moronicly good recovery
Don't forget buggiest character in the game and he will never be fixed because they couldn't be arsed to do any more patches beyond adding spirits nobody cares about.
Who actually cares about spirits? Please, tell me where these mythical discussions of spirits that people are excited about being added or want to see are happening. Forget the Smash tournament scene or what calls itself the Smash community. I don't even see fricking casuals talking about or hyping up spirits. The most I ever see discussed about spirits are schizos who still somehow think they mean Nintendo is gearing up for a real update to Smash or people picking them apart to see if their inclusion means anything to Nintendo's relation to the property they hail from, like if X game gets spirits in Smash, does it mean Nintendo is maybe going to make a new game in X franchise soon? That kind of shit. Nobody actually cares about spirits themselves though.
normal people anon >pretendo tourneygay confused people are talking things outside of tourney, and that people still play and buy ultimate despite the "dead" tourneygay scene
no, no tiers matter picking the right tool for the job is important, its like if you were going to compete in MMA and you didnt pick up Muay Thai & Wrestling + JiuJitsu. You might make it to the top with only Karate there is some people that have like Stephen Thompson but its hard. The right tool for the right job makes a difference.
[...]
at a local tiers often dont matter tho
That's not the point
The poster is obviously a casual player who thinks they're good
I'm asking for them to humble themselves
>The poster is obviously a casual player who thinks they're good I'm asking for them to humble themselves
dont even know who you are referring to but this sounds like the biggest projection of a little zoomer who thinks hes hot shit lol. mommy finally buy you an iphone?
b***h pick the "best" character of any fighting game, ill pick the "worst" and ill still body you because im a better player.
no, no tiers matter picking the right tool for the job is important, its like if you were going to compete in MMA and you didnt pick up Muay Thai & Wrestling + JiuJitsu. You might make it to the top with only Karate there is some people that have like Stephen Thompson but its hard. The right tool for the right job makes a difference.
[...]
at a local tiers often dont matter tho
i didnt say there was no factor, getting perfect balance is hard if not impossible. but when determining who wins a fight in a game, its like 85% skill, 10% luck, and 5% the character you chose. smash brothers is a video game, not MMA just stop with that right now
Please go compete in a local and give me your tag so I can look up your results
>The poster is obviously a casual player who thinks they're good I'm asking for them to humble themselves
dont even know who you are referring to but this sounds like the biggest projection of a little zoomer who thinks hes hot shit lol. mommy finally buy you an iphone?
>i didnt say there was no factor, getting perfect balance is hard if not impossible. but when determining who wins a fight in a game, its like 85% skill, 10% luck, and 5% the character you chose. smash brothers is a video game, not MMA just stop with that right now
No dude, when you have characters as butt broken as Steve, Sonic, Kazuya, Pyra & Mythra, Pikachu and shit like that its not luck trust me. Of course you need skill but once you adquire the skill with any of those characters i mentioned you are in god tier compared to the peasants that didnt learn those characters, its like Israel vs Gaza lol. The only real luck reliant character is Hero.
Sometimes devs dont know how to balance a game or they simply dont think its important or fun really which can be true, sometimes broken unbalanced top tier characters are fun. Metaknight was very fun in Brawl.
>there is no luck whatsover
There is luck in literally everything. Denying it just making a flashing billboard announcing to the world that you are moronic.
I'm not a superstitious homosexual like you, im a materialist I only believe in the objective, cause & effect homosexual they teach you this in elementary. Luck is a myth. You can prepare for anything and you should prepare for the most threatning things as possible if you intend to compete at something or go to war and also and most importantly learn the strongest tools of the trade. Get your ass to work real life is not hippy let be let live bullshit, here some shit works or it does not simple as.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>im a materialist
3 months ago
Anonymous
stfu gnostic homosexual i can beat you in smash and irl
no, no tiers matter picking the right tool for the job is important, its like if you were going to compete in MMA and you didnt pick up Muay Thai & Wrestling + JiuJitsu. You might make it to the top with only Karate there is some people that have like Stephen Thompson but its hard. The right tool for the right job makes a difference.
Do you know how tier lists work in competitive games? It's a rnaking of the characters assuming the players behind them and their opponent are of equal skill levels. Under that assumption, higher tier characters have better tools to work with than the characters below them and should theoretically come out on top. Tournament data typically backs this up. A higher skilled player could still conceivably best a higher tier character using a lower tier character but their skill will have to be that much higher to offset their character's toolkit versus the higher tier character's better options. Flukes can happen too but those outliers don't impact the consistent trends in the data.
I can stomp my friends with low tiers but we compete for fun and we're hardly tournament level skill-wise so any perspectives we have on which characters we think are good or better than they typically get credit for are skewed by our narrow experience. Same for you.
>Do you know how tier lists work in competitive games? It's a rnaking of the characters assuming the players behind them and their opponent are of equal skill levels.
first sentence gave away your low level pseudointelligence. no fricking shit it assume equal skill level. i said its less of factor, not no factor at all.
you people dont understand how these games are created, like, at all.
i bet somewhere in your paragraph post you reference "simulations" ie letting the ai do a bunch of fights like thats some sort of research, but your first sentence outted you as such a moron i couldnt even bother to continue reading
>doesn't read the post and then assumes rants about AI simulations like a fricking schizo
Christ you're moronic. The only data I mentioned was real tangible tournament data with recorded results. Not once did I say shit about simulations. I brought up skill being equal because you brought up skill first, implying you don't fricking understand what a tier list is for. Skill matters but it can also be outdone if the difference in skill level isn't enough to counteract a higher tier character's toolkit. A lesser skilled player could still potentially beat you because despite you being more skilled because if they pick a high tier and you pick low, they have to put in less work than you and their character's toolkit will get them farther with less. Skill matters but a tier list is meant to represent cases of equal skill as well as portray how much skill is needed for a lower tier to close the gap with a higher tier.
Chunky's great and bless him for putting in the legwork on DK but yeah, it's not often he comes out on top and what he does get, he's working that much harder for it.
Does anyone here play this game at a serious level anymore? All my mains are deep in Elite Smash and I used to go to locals, online and a ton of Steves ruining locals made me lose passion for the game. I main Wolf and Sephiroth
Doubt it
A lot of low to mid level players have given up on the game competitively due to how much the meta has killed any enjoyment at that level
I'm the same as you
The only people still playing are people with sunk cost into the game
I stopped playing around the start of FP2, still occasionally check in. I plateaued pretty hard (best was going 6-2 at a local and couldn't improve beyond that) and the growing negativity around the game made me lose interest. Now I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole
I just stopped caring. Certain aspects annoy the fricking shit out of me, like how have they not made ledgeplay not shitty for five fricking games? On top of that, the recovery powercreep is just sickening, where something that's a shitty recovery in 4/Ult is still better than 90% of recoveries in the rest of the series. It's like if you don't have a god recovery, don't even bother going offstage, the other player's gonna make it back anyways and you'll just eat a reversal for trying to play offstage.
it helps having 1:1 scale masamunes attach to your arms at all times along with airborn smash attacks and a stupid good recovery and boulders for launch damage and
I love how Ganon isn't even that much different in Melee in terms of moveset or numbers, he just abuses the broken movement in the game to do completely silly shit and it makes him an almost usable character.
he is doing it on propouse, to move "foward" with his back turned he does it by doing a hadoken motion on his control stick basically but very fast and precise this makes the character shift his forward dash momentum backwards so he can jump and do the back air or use the reverse hitbox of his moves.
because of everything else you can do, there is a lot of freedom of movement in Melee that Ultimate's shitty engine doesnt have with their 10 frame buffer for an offline game. >10 FRAME buffer even offline
In Melee there is not even a buffer, as soon as you press the button that was your action, if you were in the middle of another animation and ur attack or move didnt come out its your fault you cant blame the system, its all your own speed.
>YO LITTLE DONNIE! I JUST DID A FRICKING moronic LOOKING WALK IN SUPER SMASH BROTHERS! BET YOU FEEL PRETTY STUPID NOW HUH??
holy frick is this really what meleegays do?
How hard it is to moonwalk im bad at it but i have done it with Link & Captain Falcon sometimes.
t. I main Marth so i dont care about learning to do this shit properly but maybe I should just in case i play Captain Falcon to get those back airs ready quicker.
depends on character. Although there's seldom use cases for it being anything but just style. It's not really ever optimal. Certainly not something you should prioritize learning if you just want a solid falcon secondary.
I dont want a Falcon secondary i just wanna moonwalk for swag and it also helps Cap. Falcon tho its not completely useless and just style.
It aint worth a shit on Marth tho thats for sure. Marth is very very basic but still fricks almost everyone up.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Well the input is really simple. There's not really a trick to learning it besides practice. You can easily moonwalk on falcon but to get good ones you're definitely gonna need to get the input down to muscle memory. If you want to chain moonwalks together, that's a lot harder than just learning how to do longer moonwalks.
3 months ago
Anonymous
yea figures. like everything in Melee its just drilling over and over.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Also practice moonwalking in both directions. When I was learning how to do it my side moonwalks were like half the length as my right side ones.
Is Sonic only up there because one player is winning Hbox's online tourney with him every week or is he genuinely S+ tier? Has he had results at recent in-person tourneys? Not saying Sonix isn't a good player or anything but does he ever win in-person tournaments?
Ridley has it rough, hes got great edge guarding at least but few tools onstage. As a metroidgay I wanted him to rule but he turned out being hard to use. Still try to use him a bit though.
The good news is that I'm not very good at the game so I barely notice Ridley is bad. I haven't played in a couple years but I had him somewhere in lower elite. Against similarly matched players though, it seemed like Samus was the only one I sucked against. I wasn't even a huge Ridleygay when he was announced, but he was fun to play for me. Big fricker with lots of jumps, I don't know, it just clicked.
Due to the delay samus is a lot harder to fight online. But as a samus main I shouldn't be complaining. There's also the knock-on effect of low tier characters being more useful since big smash attacks are harder to time shielding or evading on.
Hero's funny because he practically directly in the middle of the tier list because he goes from being one of the worst characters in the game to one of best constantly during a match as he gets and fails to get buffs/moves off of Command List
what is it about the Ultimate communitt they refuse to relook at their stage list/Rulset to deal with problems? Smash 64 Melee and Brawl all went through stage list shifts to deal with issues >64 banned KongO and later Temple because of circle camping. >Melee eventually banned Wobbling for a good and impleminted a ledge grab limit because of Dominance >Brawl banned a bunch of stages to tone down Meta Knights Dominance and banned IC's picking FD
Ult could look at other stages to deal with the long games and the dominant camping chars but they dont keep reverting back to PS2 which is Steves best stage
The community (at least at the top like TOs) are actually moronic since Smash 4
I can only assume it's because TOs become friends with top players (who are playing the characters that need to be banned) and feel bad about banning them
I'm honestly not even sure what specific issues or problematic stages you're even referring to to demonstrate their alleged refusal to adapt. Steve is still an open discussion, stalling rarely happens outside of cheeky Sonic players, weird quirks of stages that flatten the characters and give certain moves buffs they don't normally have because the Z axis no longer exists, plus the game is overall more refined in its mechanics than something like Melee is and has countermeasures to some of Melee's cheesy bullshit baked in. I'm not saying the rules are perfect by any means but at least give examples of what you're referring to instead of just vague statements about their refusal to act.
Ultimate players would rather shit their pants and let the diarrhea in their underwear pool around them than play on any stage that isn't fricking PS2.
No it doesn't
That was fixed in one of the first patches for the game
3 months ago
Anonymous
Then why is the stage banned?
Melee took an astounding 13 months of rushed development and still turned out great, meanwhile Ultimate began right after Smash 4 which ended in late 2015 and when you factor in all the DLC, Ultimate ended in late 2021 with Sora so that’s like 6 years give or take? unless you want to count Smash 4 and Ultimate as one since Sakurai loves to kill himself making these games.
its the proof modern soulless devs are just lazy fricks that dont want to work hard and make something fun because that takes effort. Also many people you thought were great back then turned out to become hacks nowadays.
like Kojima
If melee came out today you would call it soulless garbage >Intro is just a trailer that they used for the game >Characters don't have specific entries anymore >The menu being shit
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Then why is the stage banned?
Because the competitive community is stupid
It also was a legal stage for most of Ultimate's life
3 months ago
Anonymous
>If melee came out today you would call it soulless garbage
Absolutely not fricking true, im bitter but i can still recognize kino when i see it.
3 months ago
Anonymous
yet you ignored rushrev. curious
3 months ago
Anonymous
>yet you ignored rushrev.
Not their fault.
3 months ago
Anonymous
The people claiming "Palworld is dying" oughta need to see the actual dead examples.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Damn, not even worth a pirate.
3 months ago
Anonymous
saying rushrev is bad because icons was bad is like saying project m is bad because brawl was bad.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Nobody wants to play Icon:We're Sorry Edition, homosexual.
You can't be even get the FGC mudbones to discuss that poor excuse of a rebrand.
3 months ago
Anonymous
what's the point in being so determined and angry over a game you never tried?
3 months ago
Anonymous
>The menu being shit
You serious? The menu is great. Smash's menus have been shit since Brawl
3 months ago
Anonymous
>If melee came out today you would call it soulless garbage
Absolutely not fricking true, im bitter but i can still recognize kino when i see it.
Here’s a reminder on Smash’s menus
Rank them from best to worst, I’ll start
Melee = Brawl (because you can waggle them around with the C-Stick) > 64 > 3DS > Wii U > Ultimate
3 months ago
Anonymous
64 gave me the creeps the song is too quiet like you are investigating a murder case connecting the dots and the collage backwards are the clues its ominous.
64 > melee > brawl > 4 > ult
in order
I understand why Saku-HACK made it this day, he worked on kirby air ride he makes this sort of menus and re-used assets and what not.
>i have consistently played game & watch, rob, pac man, and steve since launch (or since dlc drop in steve's case) >i have also consistently played dedede, k rool, villager, and ridley since launch
who else (balanced) here
>pic related isn't even allowed to touch anything original from Sonic X, before Sonic Advance 3, and beyond Forces >some how, this still means Sakurai has full reign to appeal to autists begging for Sonic Eagle, even though that's not true.
They should honestly shrink the roster >20 characters that all want to swing a big hitbox sword (1 of these will objectively be the best) >30 characters whose game plan is "projectile" >Sonic >if you are a slow character you are Z tier >if you are a sword character but aren't the best character you are Z tier >if you are a short range mascot character with stubby limbs you are Y tier
The balance is so fricking boring. How does anyone play this shit?
I get what you’re saying anon, but I think part of the appeal is having a butt frick ton of characters. I think it’s also easier now to bring characters back now that they have HD models in Ultimate Smash reuses shit all the time too. Wolf used to go back to his Brawl animation when holding an item[/spoiker]. Third parties are a different story, but no reason they can’t have the Nintendo characters back. Plus Smash is made with multiple players in mind, so comp Smash will always have issues big or small roster. Better than having Meleeslop like NASB
I mean I'd be fine with a frick-huge roster if they were meaningfully different.
The impression that I get from future Smash titles is that they will continue the trend of making them dumber and simpler. So I don't understand why you need 20 simple and dumb sword characters that have an extremely similar game-plan.
>well yeah, in a roster of differences, one will objectively be better. >"game plan", you clearly don't have the capacity to think beyond a singular move and don't understand the game. >Sonic is moronicly broken, always has been >generally true >generally not true >fox
The balance is the best it's ever been considering the size of the roster, just a few extreme outliers like Steve/Sonic and Ganon/Mac
Hot Take - Assist Trophies not getting promoted in the same game was a huge missed opportunity altogether, I'd rather not have them at all. Not to mention they made half a moveset for Zero, Krystal and Knuckles just to make them “glorified items” baka, while half assed movesets like Isabelle's got to see the light of the day. Same with Daisy, Dark Samus and Richter being lazy echoes. Also Min Min and Pythra being former Base Game PNGs and getting the Promotion.
Ike was never good
If you're talking about really early meta days, then those don't count
The beginning of a game's meta is always filled with the hardest hitting and simplest characters which is why everyone always thinks that Ganondorf finally isn't the worst character in the game at the beginning of each Smash game's life
Nah, we're simply passing by at your shitlist thread and laughing at the fact half the thread is just rebootgay shitfling, not any genuine discussion over Ultimate's gameplay and modes.
>Pyra/Mythra are top tiers because...because they just are, ok???
It's actually insane how just being a DLC female sword character automatically makes everything think that's a great character.
They're not bad but they're not at all S worth. It's insane how terrible everyone is at ranking characters.
Aegis is the best designed DLC character. Simple but fun, very viable, easily identifiable strengths and weaknesses. They represent what smash character design should be.
This is the best iteration of smash to date and it will never get better than this. I'm sorry online anons who complain about the online there will always be some sort of tradeoff to latency compensation in all games.
>'m sorry online anons who complain about the online there will always be some sort of tradeoff to latency compensation in all games.
Rollback is better than delay. You sound like the street fighter homosexuals a decade ago defending the shit first party netcode
>yfw m2k vs salem grandfinals >goes to set 5 >taking turns juggling each other >each nearly dying so many times >FINALLY based black man beats pathetic yet lovable bald boi
it was a sight to behold
Honestly, m2k retiring and Salem (along with a number of other players who didn't deserve it) getting banned really killed a lot of my enjoyment spectating
they tried to but Tri State had all the power because the best players were meta knight players and Japan wouldnt travel to Meta Knight banned events
The game was honestly always fricked regardless, even if MK was cancerous. The game got oppressively campy and the majority of the cast still got auto-lose'd by DDD/ICs for free. The ones that escaped that are ones like Diddy. Brawl's meta even lasted as long as it did because it took awhile for people to just embrace the homosexualry. Ultimate is sadly a better experience even if it is just as gay but in different ways.
>the most cancer annoying characters to play against are also the best ones
Glad I never bought Fighers Pass 2 nor a second year of Nintendo Online. This game is fricked. I actually more or less like the gameplay, best they've done since 64/Melee in the main series, but the online is unplayable and the newest characters are atrocious.
ultimate looks like the most miserable game to play competitively, and these homies don't even lab to find counter player, everyone just unanimously sits there and takes it and then proceeds to complain on twitter.
You're average Twitter user isn't a real competitive player
You typical low level player in any fighting game doesn't lab
I'm obviously talking about high to top level players
>I'm obviously talking about high to top level players
yeah the vast majority of competitive NA ultimate does not lab, maybe the very top like 3 players but the rest of them do not, they sit and complain on twitter watiting for someone else to do the work for them.
thats why almost nobody beats the top 5 leo, tweek and those people. They dont want to put in the work to see how to overcome they just got good with their main what got buffed to heaven in this this game and just stayed like that expecting to never lose their edge.
this is Samsora, CaptainZack (huge gay) and those gays in a nutshell btw. They want the best tools in the game to fall onto their lap with what they already know, they dont want to learn new ones or to overcome with what they got.
Brawlgays are lazy because they know there will be another patch soon, or another game in a couple years. They have no incentive to truly grind counterplay and lab because they think >it'll get balance patched
or >another game will come out we just have to deal with it till then
Happened with Brawl and Metaknight, scene essentially just died. Happened with tr4sh and Bayo, killed the scene. Is happening with ultimate and Steve. Meanwhile Melee meta continues to evolve over time because it's just the same game being mined for further and further depth over two decades.
>Ganondorf is shit tier in every Smash >instead of changing him to be actually like the games and potentially make him a good character, Sakurai keeps him a semi-clone to pander to nostalgiagays
Frick Sakurai.
The game, unfortunately, isn't only balanced around 1v1 competitive
Ganondorf is actually one the best characters in a free for all setting
>dev yells at everyone that the game is supposed to be a free-for-all party game you play with friends >morons are shocked and appalled that the game is balanced around being a free-for-all party game played between friends
It's never been explicitly stated, but it's really obvious that's the case
You can see with Final Smashes in Ultimate as well, and it's why despite adding a Final Smash Meter they never made their way to competitive
Final Smashes like Peach's and Zelda's are overpowered in a 1v1 situation, but in a free for all aren't significantly better than other Final Smashes
Not really, in FFA he just gets smacked around even more and takes hits from all directions, gets assraped by constant items, gets fricked by stage hazards he can't recover from.
Generally good 1v1 characters are good FFA characters too. The same properties that make a character good 1v1 make them good in FFA.
There is/was an entire Discord dedicated to play free for all in Ultimate
They all agreed that Ganon was the best character in the setting mainly because the chaotic nature of the game mode favours Ganon's entire moveset being kill moves
I would actually love to play this game but the online is so shit and the DLC characters are absolutely insufferable to play against. Meanwhile I can just go on Slippi and play Smash without any of that shit.
>Ultimate >pay for online >native 6 frame input lag plus insane online lag even with ethernet cable >matchmaking system character locks you once you've found a match (even Smash4 had a lobby system) >no way to communicate (even Smash4 had this)
>Melee >free online >rollback, seamless gameplay up to like 60+ ping >matchmaking with actual lobby >basic communication tags
Smash 4's online had problems but at least it was fricking free. The fact that Nintendo has the balls to charge for their dogshit online on Switch is outrageous. >inb4 b-but it's cheap! what are you poor
It's not even worth one penny.
why does steve not have the equivalent of this if he's so unfun to play against
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rn99kPPzZsi243Qs1WzVnkfSajg-K5gTav_uVhJkNVk/edit
it's truly funny how melee fox is memed about being this broken mesiah by every other smash game player (besides 64 tho guys are just having fun doing combos) but their games have even more egregious top tiers
That's correct yes. Solo Fox mains are quite unfiguratively objectively massive homosexuals.
>IBDW >made up a story about fricking his mom for clout >now fricks a troony instead >plays the most bland soulless version of Fox possible because it is a reflection of himself
>Leffen >is a twink suffering through twink death >been kicked out of every gaming community he's ever tried to be part of but Smash because Smash community are too pussy to boot him >made up and supported life-ruining allegations against people he didn't like that he's never apologized for
>SFAT >is a vegan
The only based Fox player is Hax. Mango is a dual main so doesn't count.
Leffen can do steroids (Testosterone) and get ripped training heavy, with close to failure lifts + a spotter, he is a tall dude like 6'2 he can be a good looking hapa half-chink half-skyrim the superior Gamer Genes like he says.
Oh thats right what Leffo did to Zero was fricked up, Zero did frick up but he apologized and he didnt do anything it was just a message that he changed his mind on the very same day. Idk why Leffen wanted to frick Zero up it was just sociopath evil spite there maybe Hax was onto something when he said Leffen was "triple triad" lol, I dont believe it but Leffen is def vindictive and spiteful.
>Sm4sh Bayo > Brawl Meta Knight
disagreee Meta Knight completely warped the meta around him to the point the whole tier list was based on how well you fought Meta Knight so he would be abvoe Smash 4 Bayo
That's not the point of the list. I'm judging the raw power of all of the best characters. If you pitted Brawl Meta vs Sm4sh Bayo, Meta would get toasted. MK has better recovery, but Bayo has range and projectiles. They both have Touch of Death combos, but Bayo's got more ways to force you into the flowchart.
>Brawl Meta Knight = Ultimate Steve
Not even close you disingenuous homosexual.
Meta Knight was his own tier, HIS, OWN, TIER, even fricking casuals knew he was broken, the entire Brawl Meta revolved around him, he didn't even have A SINGLE LOSING OR NEUTRAL MATCH-UP (Pikachu's was supposedly neutral and even ESAM was against that).
Icies had wobbling, fricking wobbling, and it was legal, AND EVEN THEN they weren't able to be close to MK.
Smash 4 Bayo was busted and became overrepresented in tournaments, and pre-patch Bayo was even worse, but not even her comes close.
Little block man makes for a frustrating neutral but his representation in top tournament doesn't even get close to Bayos, so to compare him with Brawl MK is peak delusion.
Brawl Meta Knight >>>> Smash 4 Bayo > Ultimate Steve >= 64 Pikachu = Melee Fox.
MetaKnight does feel like a final boss compared to the rest of the cast in Brawl ngl, he just moves much faster lol and can recover with any of his Bs in any way he wants. Thats why he is META knight, the knight that conquered the meta.
64 Pikachu is better in his game than Melee Fox is in his. Pika is basically untouchable by anyone but Kirby if the player is playing as shitbag as possible. Pika default demolishes everyone below Kirby except maybe an only solid matchup over Yoshi because Yoshi can parry some of Pika's normal combo starters. Pika has been solo viable all along.
Fox has only been "solo viable" recently with Leffen and IBDW, and Mango winning Summit 11 with solo Fox. Generally Fox has had to be supplemented with secondaries to win tournaments like Armada's Peach and Mango's Falco.
It’s genuinely disgusting what they’ve done to this series by adding in all sorts of characters who have no business being in the game. It’s not even a proper Nintendo crossover anymore, it’s just a general video game crossover that happens to be majority Nintendo. I mean, really? Fricking Steve? Sakurai has really lost it. Get all of these non-Nintendo homosexuals the frick out of here and go back to the series’ roots. It’s embarrassing at this point.
Joker is the questionable inclusion he’s just, kinda there and I really don’t care for Poopsona 5 and don’t care how popular it was at the time. Joker was my literal and I still don’t like his inclusion.
Some of the 3rd parties are fine.
Snake, Sonic, Street Fighters, Terry, BK, Mega Man, Hero and Belmonts are fine. The rest can frick off or at least get the right rep, like 5 fricking FF7 characters represented and 2 of them playable with nothing for the rest of the series frick off.
Id have said Bayo is fine too but her stupid fricking VA ruined her.
You're gonna love what veteran Brawl modders are cooking up this year.
https://twitter.com/pikamaxi/status/1751650025648640387 >"True" Boss Battles
https://twitter.com/KingJigglypuff/status/1714378446019641400?t=0AWlC-daxIe3UHsCPHv53A&s=19
?si=bKsWn1iq87eyG9Zu >SubspaceEX in P+/P+EX (custom characters in SSE, even custom unlock methods and hopefully levels soon)
https://twitter.com/KingJigglypuff/status/1757889781785108636
https://twitter.com/KingJigglypuff/status/1737251715580100767?t=Bw7ZeeadE38P6sMkhF53og&s=19
https://twitter.com/KingJigglypuff/status/1735421743844446692?t=Bw7ZeeadE38P6sMkhF53og&s=19
https://twitter.com/KingJigglypuff/status/1733961825383772652?t=Bw7ZeeadE38P6sMkhF53og&s=19 >ItemEX in P+/P+EX (custom items+makes fake items more possible on custom characters)
one day, the brawlkino of my dreams will be truly realized...
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Tako
Cope, pedo.
3 months ago
Anonymous
The fact that you didn't even go for Arle and instead went for the series that only features adult women says a lot more about you than it does me
3 months ago
Anonymous
At least Arle has real fans, not pedophiles lapping up because some korean dipshit made a terrible animation of some shitty port.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Alright, humor me, what other characters have porn artists "ruined" for you? I've been needing a laugh today.
3 months ago
Anonymous
So you're admitting you're just a shitty coomer pushing for some literal who, not someone from an actual good shmup.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>someone from an actual good shmup.
Reimu?
3 months ago
Anonymous
There's much more than just Touhou, doofus.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Sorry anon, but Konami factually used to be the king and forefather of shooting games and that includes Gradius and its ilk.
The Vic Viper however would be a living nightmare to turn into a Smash fighter, which is why I'm suggesting someone from Parodius would work better since they could be animated like an actual fighter, and since Parodius incorporates a lot of elements from Konami's other shooters and series alongside Gradius itself.
There's also Aoba from the other Gradius subseries Otomedius, but I don't care for her at all and I know you'd be even angrier at that because she's stated to be 15 in-game.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Parodius and it's follow ups was a niche "haha Japan so weird XD" shoot em up 5 shmup/konami fans bring up about, until the child predator shill his stupid animation to all the twitter kids that follow him.
There's no talking out of this one. Imagine being so much of a porn addict to believe Konami and Nintendo wants to associate themselves with some pedophile's dead internet meme.
Also Scramble is a turd, so much people give more credit to Xevious for pioneering the shmups genre early on. also indirectly responsible for the hugest franchise in the fricking world
3 months ago
Anonymous
Nintendo added Joker, whose game says it's A-OK for hot female teachers to have sexual relationships with high school students.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Except the fact none of the art, games, and series featured in Smash Ultimate are by people who admittedly want to prey on kids.
Not Ishikawa, who retired from drawing porn, not even Hashino, who directs Persona games.
I'm really starting to think you're actually LRD.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Except the fact none of the art, games, and series featured in Smash Ultimate are by people who admittedly want to prey on kids.
Do you actually believe minus8 created and developed Parodius now? At least tell me what other game series are guilty of this.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Do you actually believe minus8 created and developed Parodius now?
Why, because I'm able to tell who the actual pedophile simp shilling some stupid spinoff character like some swirl symbol?
If you want the Smash rostergays to be investigated next, simply admit it then.
3 months ago
Anonymous
dont worry about the stupid comment about that guy that says you are a "pedo" by association of just liking a fricking animation from an animator you didnt even knew was a pedophile. Its ridiculous and stupid. watching cartoons is not a crime.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Uh, no, the guy actually wants to prey a kid and admitted get aroused by that whenever he puts our his art.
There's a clear difference. This isn't a jap who imported nudist magazines for reference sake or the Made in Abyss guy (who's still pretty suspicious).
3 months ago
Anonymous
>If you want the Smash rostergays to be investigated next
You mean the compgays
3 months ago
Anonymous
>reading comprehension
3 months ago
Anonymous
what is your opinion on Klonoa and the threads that get made about him
3 months ago
Anonymous
What about it?
3 months ago
Anonymous
>two adult women fricking a man >pedophilic
3 months ago
Anonymous
if smash characters couldn't be added because some shitty meme porn artist made animations of their series then like only Duck Hunt and ROB would be left on the roster
3 months ago
Anonymous
What about Game & Watch?
3 months ago
Anonymous
>What about Game & Watch?
anon, i...
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Amazing Melee Nair >gets removed for fish bowl
>Amazing Fair >gets removed for shitty bomb
It ain’t fair G&W Bros
3 months ago
Anonymous
Minus8, who made the animation, is a legit pedophile.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Alright, but what is pedophilic about the animation?
3 months ago
Anonymous
>b-but the animation!
You're really trying to sell a legit pedo's craft to rostergays...are you LRD by any chance?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Matt Groening was associated with Epstein.
Does this mean I am a pedophile if I watch the Simpsons and Futurama?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Unless Groening was preying on kids, then no.
Even then, there's more normalgay Simpson fans than your average gay participating in trash like "Lisamania". So doesn't matter either way.
the nu-Parodius fans are all pedophile apologists.
>game releases >noobs online getting krushed by fat croc because he has armor >is still a shit character regardless >Sakurai nerfs him even further into the ground because shitters complained so now he's among the worst in the game
The devs failed Ridley. He's one of those characters that could've became high tier overnight if they corrected his biggest flaws but they were afraid to make bold changes to any character.
>Belmonts, the coolest new addition, are bottom tier because they're slow zoners
Funny Pichu and Y.Link dropped off so hard, I remember seeing a lot of those two early on.
Plant suffers from having no way to deal with projectile spammers and no way to get rushdown fighters off of him. He's basically a heavy that specializes in beating other heavies, but how often do you see Ganondorf, DK, or D3?
>Go back to [GROOMER HOTBED]
Haha yeah im worked up over drawings, not your pathetic groomer-styled push for a literal fricking who because you saw minushomosexual's Parodius porn movie.
Imagine if i was like this with Kumatora posters, just imagine. At least Noill isn't a real pedophile, i won't fuss you over that. You're still a fricking gooner shill if you're seriously requesting her at all.
>i-i'm not worked up over drawings, i'm just angry because you saw a drawing i didn't like!! [citation needed]
No one cares about your "epic" nobody artist drama.
KABOOM
>n-nobody ca-ca-.... AAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Fricking SHITren animal, get out of my sight.
Go shill your pervert octopus else where before i call the border police.
And 13 oz. Babyjak reveals himself.
Go back to your Vidya Bros. circlejerk.
If you truly cared about what you spewed out of your mouth you wouldn't do it here. Verification not required. Speedoru is better anyways
You know how those 14 year old dipshits kept trying to dox random people they don't like? The useful idiots finally eyed at minusloser.
I can finally sleep knowing the pedo can't cry on social media anymore, no more WAAAAAAH I NEED MORE ATTENTION. Well you got the shitty wojak cult attention. Not my problem, have fun getting chased by /b/tard rejects.
I want the next game to be a reboot simply because Sonic needs significant changes.
The game as a whole needs significant changes.
>too many campy projectile spammers, not fun to play against
>too many anime swordsmen
>online is fricking shit
>online matchmaking is fricking shit
>no Break the Targets
>everything is super fast with no end lag, nothing is punishable anymore, it's like they said "melee is fast and people like that so let's make ultimate fast" without actually thinking about how to do that properly
>proper edgeguarding rarely works, hence why everyone just "edgeguards" by standing above the ledge and spamming short hop aerials
>too many characters taking up a character slot when they should be an alt costume
>t. scrub who doesn't know how to play the game
It's not just the projectile spammers, it's the projectile spammers with godlike normal frame data, like ROB. They don't know how to design zoners.
why do you think a reboot would suddenly make sega greenlight radical changes
Just swap some some his stuff with his Frontiers combat moves
would be great to have less spindashes
This, Fricking this
Enjoy your new, and Sonic Team JP-approved, Boostshit side special and new throws.
and nobody aside comic furgayS know or played Sonic Battle.
How would people feel about Sonic with a projectile?
coolest move in that game
You can do whatever you want to sonic long as he keeps down a, homing, and figure 8 in his animations.
You're not really gonna be able to change Sonic being contractually obligated to run circles around everyone else.
Unless you, like make Sonic explode after a minute, Sonic players will continue being homosexuals even if you give him Battle/Frontiers moves.
I don't even think it's his speed that is the problem. His moveset is honestly just fricking boring with three fricking specials that are "turn into a ball", two of which feel and look fairly similar. He and his play style just aren't interesting to play as or fight.
However, if you make Sonic dogshit, no one will bother playing him.
im sure non sonic players would like if nobody did
Maybe, but their opinions aren't worth listening to.
Sakurai apparently enjoyed Frontiers, so there's some hope at least.
>Sonic is completely revamped next game to be based largely on Frontiers and boost games, doesn't even spin dash anymore
>old moveset is now retained via Classic Sonic, the only newcomer this series gets
I've only played project m but I remember game and watch being the most fun, cool to see him that high here.
How the frick can Ganondorf be considered the worst character in the entire game? (Yes, I main him)
>slow
>huge
>not many good moves
>pretty much entirely relies on reads to get anything done
that's why
But is that really a reason to place him under Dr Mario or Little Mac? At least his aerials are decent
>But is that really a reason to place him under Dr Mario or Little Mac
I really don't think you understand how bad of a detriment having a hurtbox of his size is.
>Shitcena continues to drop
lol people finally realizing that boring b***h is nowhere near as good as she's hyped up to be.
Shame about Zero Suit though but that was expected.
Also based Yoshi showing people he is that damn good.
Yes. Doc also has good aerials, decent enough ground, and a solid projectile. His problem's always been bad air movement and the 2nd worst recovery in the game.
Mac's ground game and speed are very good, and while his recovery isnt good its not godawful anymore. He has something he can do in the air now even if he's still the absolute worst in the air.
All of them. No reason not to. They're not even hard to do, though Rising Tackle can be kinda annoying to combo into.
>Mr. Nig & Watch that high
Sonic and Steve I agree its a similar playstyle too, just hit and run like a homosexual and run the timer, Steve is more hardcore though because he can also make a wall and waste even more time he gets under your skin or just wins by time out if he has a % or stock advantage.
>Snake high tier
who the frick that is relevant mains him nowadays... He is strong but cmon
>Fox
besides Light who the frick is good with him lol
>Sora that high
>Wario one of the fastest characters in the air with the fart that can kill with a combo from 0% that low
>Bayonetta that high
>PIKACHU one of the best recoveries in the game, best offense, good combos, nice projectile that low
A lot of takes here are moronic
very slow, bad recovery, Little Mac got buffed all those patches, Ganon didnt
You must not having been following the competitive scene recently if you don't think G&W should be that high
Also, this tier list is from a year ago
>who the frick that is relevant mains him nowadays... He is strong but cmon
Hurt
>besides Light who the frick is good with him lol
Kaninabe
>pikachu
who the frick plays pikachu that isn't esam or shinymark
>Snake high tier
It turns out that being a fat frick with a frame 1 combo breaker in a game with no hitstun is an extremely easy way to get to 160 so you get your free kill confirm grab that you get because ?????
combo food
bad recovery
slow
only one good out of shield option
he's still really fun though
Because Sakurai refuses to make him good. He's a glass cannon because he can't recover and has no get-off-me-tools. Ganondorf is the Smash equivalent of a Slow, Frail, Mixed Attacker in Pokemon. Ganondorf is fricking Cacturne.
I can understand Ganondorf being Low tier in offline tournament.
However this tier list is cap if you're only an Online player. Ganondorf, DDD, King K.Rool, Zelda are way more annoying than Sonic, Fox, Diddy Kong and Sheik online.
Ganondorf can easily take a stock with his Nair, Jab, Up-air. These moves are not slow at all.
Tier list are fricking stupid. Who gives a frick what a tier list says
Compgays. I have played Snake and I make him look like the bottomest of bottom tiers tier. Meanwhile when I play Ike or K.Rool I wreck everyone. We are all a bunch of scrubs playing during lunch recess at work so there's 0 tryharding going on
>Revealed 10 years ago
I dropped smash like 6 years ago because everyone that I played against in tournament smelled like shit but playing against a sonic player is genuinely one of the worst experiences you can have in gaming
Everyone that plays sonic is either a complete pussy or an actual homosexual as well. After getting into street fighter and other actual fighting games I see why everyone hates smash players
All competitive fighter people smell of assholr and unwashed fat folds. This is just tiers of shit.
That's not unique to smash or fighting games. All e-sport/competitive gaming is cringe.
Where is the child grooming on the list? I'm not seeing it here and yet its pretty popular amongst the community.
What?
why would they only split s and a up into 3 subtiers? Should be S through F with + and - tiers each.
lmfao what happened with sonic?
Nintendo refused to nerf him
He was always an annoying little shit, but anyone with a half decent projectile can be a c**t back to him
As opposed to mojangman and his empire of dirt
Down special into neutral special, up+special back airs and general speed make his trading game nuts and only Sonix/Shadic figured it out.
Offline tournaments don't go to sudden death, the player up in percent wins. Optimal Sonic gameplay is to get a percent/stock lead and just run away.
S+++ AXE body spray
>I play 6 characters
>Ridley is the highest tier of any of them in fricking C-
Ungabunga bros... We never stood a chance...
Still did pretty good online though so whatever.
>Characters that appeal to autists and trannies (Minecraft, Sonic, Persona, Xenoblade) are all S tier
>Characters that based dudes would probably choose such as Dedede, K Rool, Ganon, and Simon are bottom tier
I think it has more to do with what kind of person plays competitive smash lol
No
Ultimate just has a terrible meta
Yoshi better than Lucina, Roy, Mario, Wolf, Palu, PT, Shulk is lmao fricking bullshit
this game is so dead
The game's meta has gone in the absolutely worst direction at the end of its life
I hope the next Smash game winds up better, but, as a competitor, I'm also getting too old to care
It's so fricking funny that the shittiest addition to the game is also absolutely fricking broken. Like it wasn't bad enough just how utterly offensive he is to look at.
Banjo may be lame to play as but at least he’s easy on the eyes and isn’t too broken.
banjo games still hold up i replayed them recently
Based, hope Rare Replay comes to Switch now that Microsoft is falling.
It's not even on PC yet it ain't going to Switch.
In a better compromise of a timeline
Competitive smash was the worst thing to happen to smash bros. Frick this! I’m going back to playing brawl and project m
>Competitive smash was the worst thing to happen to smash bros
>project m
Do you know why Project M was made, Anon?
It's funny that while making the most deliberate attempt at a competitive smash game they also made the most fun casual smash game. I can literally just main the random button, every character is just innately enjoyable to play as even if you don't know high level tech bullshit.
It can be fun not played competitively
>Do you know why Project M was made, Anon?
Players refused to move on from Melee so Project M was born out of making future games melee.
except PM wasn't solely made for that, but it did prove a point diehards don't care if another game does Melee's principles better than it.
PM is better than Melee but the problem is, its not official thats why it didnt took off as much.
Melee players also used to play PM, then Nintendo made sure it'd never be allowed to have major tournaments again. PM actually used to have a lot of players from brawl and Melee both.
What's your issue with tier lists? Honest question. Is it just sour grapes?
some people dont like losing or competing.
Thank you for reminding me anon I’m gonna go eat some grapes! Hopefully thread is still up later on!
Competitive anything is always the worst thing to happen to that game's community. Compgays will optimize all of the fun out of a game, demand it be enforced on all players by the devs, and still not realize that only 1% of them are actually as good at the game as they all believe themselves to be.
PLA lost.
Smogon won.
Showdown won.
>post-DLC smash
>not being a painfully boring game to play/watch
It's actually kind of insane how much FP2 ruined the game
I thought they'd have learned their lesson after Cloud and Bayonetta in Smash 4
Ultimate's meta has always been kind of shit, and even if FP2 was the final nail in the coffin, the limited microspacing, combo, and edgeguarding options was always a problem. You get like 2 seconds top of advantage against is an obnoxious character like Sonic then it's back to neutral where he's free to reset his gameplan of running away and mixing you up from the opposite side of the stage. Ultimate is the most mechanically no-fun Smash game there is since they made it an effort to get rid of cool stuff for most characters. Even without Fighters Pass 2, you still have cancerous characters like ROB, G&W, Sonic, Samus, and Lucina/Roy. Game's just boring outside of a casual free for all.
Is it really that bad? Even with a banlist? Iknow I slept on smash ultimate and only play casually with whoever wants to at the time but I always thought it was the best smash bros
Did everyone revert back to Melee then? IS there a melee scene after Hungrybox won melee? Whats mewtwoking been up to
Base Ultimate was okay. FP1 made the game worse but it was still fun. FP2 added so many overpowered and abhorrently gimmicky characters that half the matchups don't even feel like you're playing smash bros anymore. Yes, it's that bad.
As for melee, nobody "reverted" to it. The majority of people who play smash ultimate aren't melee players and never were. There's more overlap between top ult players and PM than there is melee. Meleegays just really like melee.
You're not wrong, but also the problem is
>You get like 2 seconds top of advantage
doesn't apply to the actual good characters
Steve gets 70% off of a single advantage, G&W traps you into a juggle situation for half a minute, ROB 0 to deaths you, etc. while the majority of other characters just get 1 or 2 piece hits
This is why the meta has gone to shit
These characters are not only good at camping, but win off of very few interactions; so the best way to play against them is to play safe and slow
It's literally just Umeki, and even his results are all over the the place
>Did everyone revert back to Melee then?
Melee is dying as well, but that has more to due with Nintendo making it difficult for the game to survive
>It's literally just Umek
And MuteAce, and now Eik.
MuteAce choked hard in Japan recently
I guess he did okay at LMBM, but he didn't make top 8
>Melee is dying as well
Good. aMSa got his win. It's time for Melee to die.
>Samus
>Lucina and Roy
>Cancers
Anon I think you're just shit at the game
They didn’t learn shit, it’s hilarious how there’s a series called “Sakurai when designing” parodying the process of him designing characters in weird strange ways.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzb35M-5tq8tyCshmPfprAuHR6AmAgGEk&si=ocIm4DyLYvPPJfCL
>kazuya no longer top tier
did everyone drop him or people learned to deal with his bullshit
He was never top tier
People were just being hyperbolic on social media because he gameplan of fishing for 0 to deaths the entire game if obnoxious and stressful to play against
He literally just better Luigi
The latter. He's too slow and everyone has learned to jump around him, camp him, combo the frick out of him, etc.
All of them. Why wouldn't they?
>Competitive smash was the worst thing to happen to smash bros
Playing casually is even more cancerous. Nowadays there's so many instakill items and broken summons that last a million years, plus the single player modes suck.
Yeah the items and AT need a fricking rework. It’s been going down hill since Brawl. Final Smashes are just kind of lame in Ultimate.
How many players that use Terry do the motions for his special moves?
All of them
How in the frick are Sonic and Game and Watch at the top
The game's meta has evolved into shit, Anon
Basically, FP2 shifted the meta hard towards patient and campy gameplay (mainly due to the addition of Steve), so G&W being an extremely safe character ended up catapulting him to relevancy in the meta
Sonic was always good, but it took the meta shift for him to really start dominating since his safe campy gameplay and high reward advantage state basically counter a lot of the current S tier characters
And Sakurai refuses to patch Steve why exactly?
Theyre just done with smash ultimate
They released Steve and dissolved the development team that was doing patches
Basically, they released Steve, knew he was likely unfinished due to him being developed through remote work due to COVID, and then abandoned the game
Cool, I'm glad Nintendo fans praise this guy as a legendary game dev
There were 4 characters released after Steve, moron
When steve came out most top players evaluated him to be a mid/low tier and he wasn't nearly as much of a problem as it is now. The steve hysteria happened when a few no-name zoomers picked the character up after the game's development ended and started taking sets off of established top players.
Which is mainly because Steve was released during COVID era when very few offline tournaments existed
People were doing well with Steve, but it was written off as "it's just online"
The whole "it's just wifi" and "lmao wifi warrior" copes died really fast after COVID era and all the "wifi warriors" and "online charcters" started doing well offline
Reminder
Steve:
>Character gets to place blocks with collision in a platform fighter, giving him top tier space control, including offstage
>and a projectile that command grabs you
>And top-tier sword normals that get better if you don't constantly keep him under pressure
>Which you can't do safely because his blocks mean he can rig enemy approaches in his favor
What DID they mean by this?
thats not what a command grab is you moron... im a melee gay and even i know. no wonder why fgc nigs hate smash gays.
command grab is just a grab that has a command imput before.
>Unlike regular throws, command grabs often require a command motion
Kazuya has a "command grab" there u go
Smash and other fighting games have different terminology with the same terms
A command grab is any move outside of a normal grab that grabs an opponent and (typically) beats shield
Steve literally has a command grab by that definition. The command is ->+B.
well yeah you got me thats technically a command its just not 1 button but you get what i mean.
>command grab is just a grab that has a command imput before.
So minecart then.
>And Sakurai refuses to patch Steve why exactly?
Steve is fine pros are b***hes
because smash 6 is coming out next year so why bother
>smash 6 is coming out next year
Everyone point and laugh at this Black Zippo-believing homosexual.
>filename
Do FFkeks really?
Don't make fun of them, it's all what every "DMC" action RPG gays gonna play for the next few years.
2025 is not that hard to believe if the Switch 2 comes out this year. They usually have Smash on it within a year or two.
I honestly wouldn't mind Smash coming out later if it means we can have a game with a lot of content on all fronts, instead of either "big roster with small single player" or "big single player but small roster"
>my first wait for a Smash game is Ultimate
I've been around since Melee. Smash games are usually 6-7 years apart. Ultimate came out in 2018. 2025 would be right on the dot at 7 years.
except Melee didn't have fricking DLC development back then and the 4s'wait was even longer.
Brawl came out January 31, 2008. Smash for the 3DS came out September 13, 2004. Thats 6 years and about 8 months. If Smash 6 comes out September 2025, it would still be the longest gap between Smash games.
>Smash for the 3DS came out September 13, 2004.
>came out after Melee
No wonder it was so good
Smash 6 isn't even coming out at 2026/7 at best.
when smash 6 comes out the US will already be at war against Iran lmao.
No it’s not dickhead
Sonic I can believe because he's fast and annoying, but I had no idea G&W was that good
G&W has a very strong advantage state
He can basically juggle you from 0 to 70 with little to no way for you escape
He has a get-out-of-jail-free card in using his UpB out of shield
He also has cheese with Dsmash buries and good edge guarding and some of the best ledge trapping in the game
Watch Miya and Sonix.
running away and oil spill respectively
Playing against Game & Watch is like trying to catch a leaf in the breeze that's constantly emitting hitboxes. When you finally get close to catch the leaf, it either turns itself into a disjointed hitbox or gets blown up by a strong breeze and you reset to neutral. Also the leaf is playing the floor is lava with your chatacter.
Kirby is that low? Really?
Minecraft is THAT broken??????? Really?????????????
Peach(and Daisy) S tier as she should be.
That placing is probably incorrect at this point in time
Peach hasn't done much relevant in recent tournaments
This tier list is fairly old, a year to be exact
>Peach hasn't done much relevant in recent tournaments
Watch more tournaments.
>This tier list is fairly old, a year to be exact
This is the second tier list, released today.
>Persona 5 and it’s consequences on pop culture
Grim
What makes Melee so timeless and new smash games so fotm?
An pathetic unwillingness to move on and people lying to themselves
bad taste
Only the saddest people play melee
Melee took an astounding 13 months of rushed development and still turned out great, meanwhile Ultimate began right after Smash 4 which ended in late 2015 and when you factor in all the DLC, Ultimate ended in late 2021 with Sora so that’s like 6 years give or take? unless you want to count Smash 4 and Ultimate as one since Sakurai loves to kill himself making these games.
its the proof modern soulless devs are just lazy fricks that dont want to work hard and make something fun because that takes effort. Also many people you thought were great back then turned out to become hacks nowadays.
like Kojima
>Melee took an astounding 13 months of rushed development and still turned out great
Not really
It's a happy accident that people like playing the few viable characters in the game, but outside of those characters you find poor balance and a large number of unfinished characters like G&W literally having a shield that doesn't cover his body because it was copy and pasted from Mario's data
64 shouldn't be lumped with nu-Smash. It's not a perfect game but it has it's own cool mechanics and combo game that outshine the newer games by a mile.
Actually 64, Melee and Brawl are my favorites, I’m too lazy to remake that meme so I just want to let that be known.
Christ, the Waluigi Wiggler spam in MKD8 was nowhere close to obnoxious like this.
I wonder if Golden Fox will ever receive a nerf in F-Zero 99.
Please, having cheap boosts and near full life recovery is broken. GF should be theoretically vulnerable to getting brawled, no one will be able to catch them.
> sonic eternally buckbreaks the plumber and nintendo fans.
kek
Thank you Toriguri
Banjo is unironically a really saucy character and I wish more people played him
He takes too much effort to do well, and people just don't like his moveset despite having cool stuff like turn-around cancels or up-tilt anti-airs.
who gives a frick about ultimate since slippi came out
Slippi is basically dead as anything more than a practice tool due to Nintendo
Yeah slippi was always just a "practice tool" in the sense you can just queue up and find a near LAN-level match. What did you think it was supposed to be? Its use case for hosting serious tournaments has been obsolete ever since covid ended.
>Its use case for hosting serious tournaments has been obsolete ever since covid ended.
I suppose, but being able to have large events that didn't require people to travel was huge even after COVID
Slippi tournaments helped breath new life in to the game, and the game needs that to survive
>I suppose, but being able to have large events that didn't require people to travel was huge even after COVID
There's still tons of netplay tournaments being hosted for it. You're just not gonna win a supermajor on slippi. It's still inherently worse and less fun than playing in person regardless of how good it is. Nintendo's meddling is vastly overexaggerated. Microsoft owns start.gg and officially supports netplay melee tournaments despite all of the baggage such a concept carries with nintendo's legal department.
I don't want to invest thousands of hours into learning esoteric mechanics to compete with autists who solved the game a decade ago, only to be banned from playing if I accidentally misgender my opponent.
No gives a frick about melee either you fricking gay kys
There are currently more people registered for Melee than Ultimate at Genesis, the largest smash event of the year. Figure that one out.
Stop shilling you granny no one is playing your janky glitchfest of a game.
>it's real
my god, ultimate really is doomed. can't say i'm surprised, although sad to see sakurai couldn't get off his ass for two seconds and nerf steve
No shit, the only people who play smash on a "competitive" level are fricking autists, and autists hate change.
>There are currently more people registered for Melee than Ultimate at Genesis
Boomers won
Only people who play are
A. gays
B. Troons
C. Mental Ill people
D. Autist
So a very minority of people play melee, sorry you had to hear the truth anon
>a very minority of people
didn't know the zoomoid raiders doubled as ESL morons
Genesis is the Melee Superbowl you fricking newhomosexuals
you're making me want to pick melee up again despite my potato reaction time, frick you anon
Melee is always fun even if you have lost reflexes, its more about drilling than reflexes, most motions just become second nature when you drill them its like learning to play guitar or excersising, just acquire good form and it will happen automatically.
I remember M2K saying once he had a reaction time of 240 ms or something, it's not a big deal at all
when the frick is project m gonna get rollback
I want to believe.
when the frick are we getting rollback for Rivals workshop that shit should be a priority even if it's extremely difficult to get working without desyncs
Based, Anti Melee Babs stay seething
that shit looks super hard with the imput readings there but its really just simple habits that were drilled out and years of experience. Melee is like learning an instrument, once its habit it stays a long time and you can improvise what you drilled thats why its so good.
Smash unironically need to retvrn. After the fighters pass there is just so much over-elaborate gimmicky bullshit in the game now it's just tiresome. You've got the original dudes where UP B GO UP DOWN B GO DOWN is as complicated as they get, and then you've got characters with meters and form changes and command input moves and building walls and fricking crafting. Anyone could have told them on paper that a character like Steve is a dumb fricking idea and is just too much, so much shit and still nothing in the game is as satisfying as hitting a falcon punch.
I thought Terry was fun though.
So basically what you’re trying to say is this?
Yeah.
It's like power creep. They need to stop over-complicating the characters they're adding to justify their existence and just make them fun.
>tierlist bad because it doesn't have my favorite
moronic
also so this is the type of thread the gangbangers go to
I remember kicking Sonic players from my arenas whenever they came in. Only character I did that to, I refuse to play with those buttholes
>the best characters are the ones who can avoid their opponent the best
Why did anyone ever like this trash?
Because there was a time when the best characters were stuff people liked fighting and watching like Joker or Wolf. Also patches held the promise of really obnoxious shit being nerfed
It's always been campy as frick, it's just worse now.
>tiers within a tier
>Steve and Sonic
Baaaaaasssseeeedddd
S++ should be a picture of a shower
Bringing back this gem
What funny is this is unironically true
As soon as you get a full time job you can no longer commit to playing Smash competitively
true Bizzaro Flame is no longer good at Melee now that he became a Lawyer. He became a typical high salary asian man.
EASY MONEY!!!!!!!
>melee hell memes
melee hell is dead troony mods ruined it just like everything in gaming else gets ruined by
It's so funny how k rool's MU spread is so all over the place that half of the characters in s tier he theoretically beats
I accepted a long time ago that he would never rank high, but I am surprised to see him right at the bottom here. At the least, could have seen him in D.
I've never played Ultimate, what about Steve makes him seemingly universally considered the strongest top tier?
Can change the terrain with his blocks
Literally every move is useful
Shits out damage for little effort
Minecart is a kill move that doubles as a mobile command grab
moronicly good recovery
Don't forget buggiest character in the game and he will never be fixed because they couldn't be arsed to do any more patches beyond adding spirits nobody cares about.
>no one cares about
>is what everyone outside his special circle is talking about
Who actually cares about spirits? Please, tell me where these mythical discussions of spirits that people are excited about being added or want to see are happening. Forget the Smash tournament scene or what calls itself the Smash community. I don't even see fricking casuals talking about or hyping up spirits. The most I ever see discussed about spirits are schizos who still somehow think they mean Nintendo is gearing up for a real update to Smash or people picking them apart to see if their inclusion means anything to Nintendo's relation to the property they hail from, like if X game gets spirits in Smash, does it mean Nintendo is maybe going to make a new game in X franchise soon? That kind of shit. Nobody actually cares about spirits themselves though.
normal people anon
>pretendo tourneygay confused people are talking things outside of tourney, and that people still play and buy ultimate despite the "dead" tourneygay scene
>My mains:
1 in S
1 in A+
1 in C-
1 in E+
>my other frequently played
2 in S
1 in A-
2 in B-
1 in C-
2 in D+
3 in D-
1 in E+
1 in E-
Not sure how to feel about any of that but there it is. Interesting.
>competitive tier list in a casual game
why do you care you stupid Black person
skill is a bigger factor than anything else.
i main donkey kong and find it hard to believe hes that bad
Please actually go compete in a local
Locals always have several people are that are ungodly good with mid/low tiers and are only held back by not traveling to majors.
That's not the point
The poster is obviously a casual player who thinks they're good
I'm asking for them to humble themselves
>The poster is obviously a casual player who thinks they're good I'm asking for them to humble themselves
dont even know who you are referring to but this sounds like the biggest projection of a little zoomer who thinks hes hot shit lol. mommy finally buy you an iphone?
b***h pick the "best" character of any fighting game, ill pick the "worst" and ill still body you because im a better player.
i didnt say there was no factor, getting perfect balance is hard if not impossible. but when determining who wins a fight in a game, its like 85% skill, 10% luck, and 5% the character you chose. smash brothers is a video game, not MMA just stop with that right now
Please go compete in a local and give me your tag so I can look up your results
Nah, you're wrong
>nah youre wrong
sure thing lil zoomer. dont forget to do your homework inbetween playing with your toys lol
I'm a 30 year old boomer, Anon
I've been playing Smash competitively since Melee
I'm worse than your zoomer shitposting is making me out to be
>i didnt say there was no factor, getting perfect balance is hard if not impossible. but when determining who wins a fight in a game, its like 85% skill, 10% luck, and 5% the character you chose. smash brothers is a video game, not MMA just stop with that right now
No dude, when you have characters as butt broken as Steve, Sonic, Kazuya, Pyra & Mythra, Pikachu and shit like that its not luck trust me. Of course you need skill but once you adquire the skill with any of those characters i mentioned you are in god tier compared to the peasants that didnt learn those characters, its like Israel vs Gaza lol. The only real luck reliant character is Hero.
Sometimes devs dont know how to balance a game or they simply dont think its important or fun really which can be true, sometimes broken unbalanced top tier characters are fun. Metaknight was very fun in Brawl.
>there is no luck whatsover
There is luck in literally everything. Denying it just making a flashing billboard announcing to the world that you are moronic.
I'm not a superstitious homosexual like you, im a materialist I only believe in the objective, cause & effect homosexual they teach you this in elementary. Luck is a myth. You can prepare for anything and you should prepare for the most threatning things as possible if you intend to compete at something or go to war and also and most importantly learn the strongest tools of the trade. Get your ass to work real life is not hippy let be let live bullshit, here some shit works or it does not simple as.
>im a materialist
stfu gnostic homosexual i can beat you in smash and irl
OOGA BOOGA TOUGH GUY
sit the frick down
>Shitleth
>GODleth
>im a materialist
>im a materialist
>imaterialist
>Im A Tier List
no, no tiers matter picking the right tool for the job is important, its like if you were going to compete in MMA and you didnt pick up Muay Thai & Wrestling + JiuJitsu. You might make it to the top with only Karate there is some people that have like Stephen Thompson but its hard. The right tool for the right job makes a difference.
at a local tiers often dont matter tho
Do you know how tier lists work in competitive games? It's a rnaking of the characters assuming the players behind them and their opponent are of equal skill levels. Under that assumption, higher tier characters have better tools to work with than the characters below them and should theoretically come out on top. Tournament data typically backs this up. A higher skilled player could still conceivably best a higher tier character using a lower tier character but their skill will have to be that much higher to offset their character's toolkit versus the higher tier character's better options. Flukes can happen too but those outliers don't impact the consistent trends in the data.
I can stomp my friends with low tiers but we compete for fun and we're hardly tournament level skill-wise so any perspectives we have on which characters we think are good or better than they typically get credit for are skewed by our narrow experience. Same for you.
>Do you know how tier lists work in competitive games? It's a rnaking of the characters assuming the players behind them and their opponent are of equal skill levels.
first sentence gave away your low level pseudointelligence. no fricking shit it assume equal skill level. i said its less of factor, not no factor at all.
you people dont understand how these games are created, like, at all.
i bet somewhere in your paragraph post you reference "simulations" ie letting the ai do a bunch of fights like thats some sort of research, but your first sentence outted you as such a moron i couldnt even bother to continue reading
>doesn't read the post and then assumes rants about AI simulations like a fricking schizo
Christ you're moronic. The only data I mentioned was real tangible tournament data with recorded results. Not once did I say shit about simulations. I brought up skill being equal because you brought up skill first, implying you don't fricking understand what a tier list is for. Skill matters but it can also be outdone if the difference in skill level isn't enough to counteract a higher tier character's toolkit. A lesser skilled player could still potentially beat you because despite you being more skilled because if they pick a high tier and you pick low, they have to put in less work than you and their character's toolkit will get them farther with less. Skill matters but a tier list is meant to represent cases of equal skill as well as portray how much skill is needed for a lower tier to close the gap with a higher tier.
>it's that part of the thread where zoomers shit on melee because their favorite e-celeb said it's le old outdated clunky
DK's disadvantage that bad that he's ranked lower than Dac**t, M2 and Robin?
Yes
Go watch Chunkykong sets against actual top players
Chunky's great and bless him for putting in the legwork on DK but yeah, it's not often he comes out on top and what he does get, he's working that much harder for it.
Does anyone here play this game at a serious level anymore? All my mains are deep in Elite Smash and I used to go to locals, online and a ton of Steves ruining locals made me lose passion for the game. I main Wolf and Sephiroth
Doubt it
A lot of low to mid level players have given up on the game competitively due to how much the meta has killed any enjoyment at that level
I'm the same as you
The only people still playing are people with sunk cost into the game
I stopped playing around the start of FP2, still occasionally check in. I plateaued pretty hard (best was going 6-2 at a local and couldn't improve beyond that) and the growing negativity around the game made me lose interest. Now I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole
I just stopped caring. Certain aspects annoy the fricking shit out of me, like how have they not made ledgeplay not shitty for five fricking games? On top of that, the recovery powercreep is just sickening, where something that's a shitty recovery in 4/Ult is still better than 90% of recoveries in the rest of the series. It's like if you don't have a god recovery, don't even bother going offstage, the other player's gonna make it back anyways and you'll just eat a reversal for trying to play offstage.
Smash tournaments were fun to watch before the second fighter pass dropped. Steve meta is pure cancer.
How is Min Min that high?
it helps having 1:1 scale masamunes attach to your arms at all times along with airborn smash attacks and a stupid good recovery and boulders for launch damage and
She's like top-15 minimum despite the nerfs. She has a lot of strengths, but her recovery certainly isn't one of them.
arms?
more like thighs, hips and breasts
She truly has it all.
I love her so much!
>the third game in a row where Ganondorf is bottom tier
It's not fair Ganonbros...
His character design is inherently bad for a competitive environment
He's the best character in free for all, though
Ganon's home is melee
come home
I love how Ganon isn't even that much different in Melee in terms of moveset or numbers, he just abuses the broken movement in the game to do completely silly shit and it makes him an almost usable character.
That's so fricking goofy looking.
he is doing it on propouse, to move "foward" with his back turned he does it by doing a hadoken motion on his control stick basically but very fast and precise this makes the character shift his forward dash momentum backwards so he can jump and do the back air or use the reverse hitbox of his moves.
I know. It's just funny watching ganondorf clowning around like that.
that's moronic
why would you play such a broken game
it literally looks like some shit out of a source engine game with 300 ping
because of everything else you can do, there is a lot of freedom of movement in Melee that Ultimate's shitty engine doesnt have with their 10 frame buffer for an offline game.
>10 FRAME buffer even offline
In Melee there is not even a buffer, as soon as you press the button that was your action, if you were in the middle of another animation and ur attack or move didnt come out its your fault you cant blame the system, its all your own speed.
it's funny
why would you play ganondorf for any other reason besides doing stupid shit and making your opponent look dumb
>YO LITTLE DONNIE! I JUST DID A FRICKING moronic LOOKING WALK IN SUPER SMASH BROTHERS! BET YOU FEEL PRETTY STUPID NOW HUH??
holy frick is this really what meleegays do?
How hard it is to moonwalk im bad at it but i have done it with Link & Captain Falcon sometimes.
t. I main Marth so i dont care about learning to do this shit properly but maybe I should just in case i play Captain Falcon to get those back airs ready quicker.
depends on character. Although there's seldom use cases for it being anything but just style. It's not really ever optimal. Certainly not something you should prioritize learning if you just want a solid falcon secondary.
I dont want a Falcon secondary i just wanna moonwalk for swag and it also helps Cap. Falcon tho its not completely useless and just style.
It aint worth a shit on Marth tho thats for sure. Marth is very very basic but still fricks almost everyone up.
Well the input is really simple. There's not really a trick to learning it besides practice. You can easily moonwalk on falcon but to get good ones you're definitely gonna need to get the input down to muscle memory. If you want to chain moonwalks together, that's a lot harder than just learning how to do longer moonwalks.
yea figures. like everything in Melee its just drilling over and over.
Also practice moonwalking in both directions. When I was learning how to do it my side moonwalks were like half the length as my right side ones.
It's super easy to do, just half circle back or forwards like a fighting game. It's hard to make useful but easy in practice
Frick Sakurai or the Balance Devs or whoever
It's what happens when you never really develop him beyond slow Captain Falcon. Even giving him his sword on his smash attacks isnt enough to fix him
Please don't reply to 667199219
They're very obviously baiting
Spyro for Smash
I don't think any Smash will add something as intentionally horrific as Ridley's Ultimate design.
The only character that could probably compete is Nemesis (in a CERO B rated Smash) and Giygas (or maybe just a Devil's Machine stage)
>ResiEvil is too functionally boring and crude to easily add to Smash
It's not fair bros.
Frick CERO and Frick Snake's moveset.
why does Ganker pretend to play competitive and look the boots of competitive players
I've literally competed in majors
I didn't do well, but I did
people compete here but they dont make it out of pools
Is Sonic only up there because one player is winning Hbox's online tourney with him every week or is he genuinely S+ tier? Has he had results at recent in-person tourneys? Not saying Sonix isn't a good player or anything but does he ever win in-person tournaments?
Sonix has won multiple recent offline majors
moron
Post Assist Trophies you want playable
you just want to frick ashley you degenerate piece of shit
me too
Thank you for ignoring Krystal who is actually legal
>ryu above ken
I quit ultimate years ago, what changed
Asimo happened
>samus in A tier for once in the series
it feels good
Samus is honestly the best designed zoner in the game
I fricking love her bombs in ultimate you can use them for so many fun things and can get crazy air movement mixups by using them.
zair's great too.
Ridley is my main and I always had more trouble with her than any other character. It was basically a guaranteed loss for me. Lore friendly, at least.
Ridley has it rough, hes got great edge guarding at least but few tools onstage. As a metroidgay I wanted him to rule but he turned out being hard to use. Still try to use him a bit though.
The good news is that I'm not very good at the game so I barely notice Ridley is bad. I haven't played in a couple years but I had him somewhere in lower elite. Against similarly matched players though, it seemed like Samus was the only one I sucked against. I wasn't even a huge Ridleygay when he was announced, but he was fun to play for me. Big fricker with lots of jumps, I don't know, it just clicked.
Due to the delay samus is a lot harder to fight online. But as a samus main I shouldn't be complaining. There's also the knock-on effect of low tier characters being more useful since big smash attacks are harder to time shielding or evading on.
Regardless of a dumb chart I still love Dragon Quest Hero.
Hero's funny because he practically directly in the middle of the tier list because he goes from being one of the worst characters in the game to one of best constantly during a match as he gets and fails to get buffs/moves off of Command List
And I always whip out this meme whenever necessary
what is it about the Ultimate communitt they refuse to relook at their stage list/Rulset to deal with problems? Smash 64 Melee and Brawl all went through stage list shifts to deal with issues
>64 banned KongO and later Temple because of circle camping.
>Melee eventually banned Wobbling for a good and impleminted a ledge grab limit because of Dominance
>Brawl banned a bunch of stages to tone down Meta Knights Dominance and banned IC's picking FD
Ult could look at other stages to deal with the long games and the dominant camping chars but they dont keep reverting back to PS2 which is Steves best stage
The community (at least at the top like TOs) are actually moronic since Smash 4
I can only assume it's because TOs become friends with top players (who are playing the characters that need to be banned) and feel bad about banning them
Because there is nothing to relook, they already done all the looking.
I'm honestly not even sure what specific issues or problematic stages you're even referring to to demonstrate their alleged refusal to adapt. Steve is still an open discussion, stalling rarely happens outside of cheeky Sonic players, weird quirks of stages that flatten the characters and give certain moves buffs they don't normally have because the Z axis no longer exists, plus the game is overall more refined in its mechanics than something like Melee is and has countermeasures to some of Melee's cheesy bullshit baked in. I'm not saying the rules are perfect by any means but at least give examples of what you're referring to instead of just vague statements about their refusal to act.
Ultimate players would rather shit their pants and let the diarrhea in their underwear pool around them than play on any stage that isn't fricking PS2.
The morons playing Ultimate competitively think Lylat is TOO spicy of a map and would rather play FD+SBattlefield+PS2 forever and ever
Yeah because the tilting can ruin recoveries, it has ruined recoveries
Lylat doesn't tilt in Ultimate
Please stop talking about things you know nothing about
But it still ruins recoveries
No it doesn't
That was fixed in one of the first patches for the game
Then why is the stage banned?
If melee came out today you would call it soulless garbage
>Intro is just a trailer that they used for the game
>Characters don't have specific entries anymore
>The menu being shit
>Then why is the stage banned?
Because the competitive community is stupid
It also was a legal stage for most of Ultimate's life
>If melee came out today you would call it soulless garbage
Absolutely not fricking true, im bitter but i can still recognize kino when i see it.
yet you ignored rushrev. curious
>yet you ignored rushrev.
Not their fault.
The people claiming "Palworld is dying" oughta need to see the actual dead examples.
Damn, not even worth a pirate.
saying rushrev is bad because icons was bad is like saying project m is bad because brawl was bad.
Nobody wants to play Icon:We're Sorry Edition, homosexual.
You can't be even get the FGC mudbones to discuss that poor excuse of a rebrand.
what's the point in being so determined and angry over a game you never tried?
>The menu being shit
You serious? The menu is great. Smash's menus have been shit since Brawl
Here’s a reminder on Smash’s menus
Rank them from best to worst, I’ll start
Melee = Brawl (because you can waggle them around with the C-Stick) > 64 > 3DS > Wii U > Ultimate
64 gave me the creeps the song is too quiet like you are investigating a murder case connecting the dots and the collage backwards are the clues its ominous.
64 > melee > brawl > 4 > ult
in order
I understand why Saku-HACK made it this day, he worked on kirby air ride he makes this sort of menus and re-used assets and what not.
>Is that a...15° slope on the ground?
>FRICKING BAN THIS CASUAL FILTH WHERE THE FRICK IS MY PS2 AAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEE
>i have consistently played game & watch, rob, pac man, and steve since launch (or since dlc drop in steve's case)
>i have also consistently played dedede, k rool, villager, and ridley since launch
who else (balanced) here
you have weird kid taste
absolutely. something about "random bullshit" characters have always appealed to me.
>pic related isn't even allowed to touch anything original from Sonic X, before Sonic Advance 3, and beyond Forces
>some how, this still means Sakurai has full reign to appeal to autists begging for Sonic Eagle, even though that's not true.
can you blueshit homosexuals stop posting this fat frick for once?
Flynn? My FUARKING hero.
Sonic Team? The devil.
Who cares about Shitnic's dumb moveset?
Let my wife be playable next game.
frick off furgays
Suck my dick.
Choke on it.
Based and bumped
They should just make a smash game with only sonic characters. I'd play as knux, shadow, silver, blaze & cream easily
Well, good news for you.
?si=KkqpGBmloDtHAR2x
Sonic Smash Bros just got a unofficial sequel.
NTA, That's a 7 years old project.
It got a huge freaking update and doing things over as a start, man.
That rocks. Hope it comes out eventually, I'd play it hard
In a different timeline
2flat
They should honestly shrink the roster
>20 characters that all want to swing a big hitbox sword (1 of these will objectively be the best)
>30 characters whose game plan is "projectile"
>Sonic
>if you are a slow character you are Z tier
>if you are a sword character but aren't the best character you are Z tier
>if you are a short range mascot character with stubby limbs you are Y tier
The balance is so fricking boring. How does anyone play this shit?
> They should honestly shrink the roster
I get what you’re saying anon, but I think part of the appeal is having a butt frick ton of characters. I think it’s also easier now to bring characters back now that they have HD models in Ultimate Smash reuses shit all the time too. Wolf used to go back to his Brawl animation when holding an item[/spoiker]. Third parties are a different story, but no reason they can’t have the Nintendo characters back. Plus Smash is made with multiple players in mind, so comp Smash will always have issues big or small roster. Better than having Meleeslop like NASB
I mean I'd be fine with a frick-huge roster if they were meaningfully different.
The impression that I get from future Smash titles is that they will continue the trend of making them dumber and simpler. So I don't understand why you need 20 simple and dumb sword characters that have an extremely similar game-plan.
But none of the sword character have "extremely similar game plans".
all sword characters have to space and benefit from spacing properly except Roy, he is a close range homie.
Lucina and Marth. I accept your concession.
>well yeah, in a roster of differences, one will objectively be better.
>"game plan", you clearly don't have the capacity to think beyond a singular move and don't understand the game.
>Sonic is moronicly broken, always has been
>generally true
>generally not true
>fox
The balance is the best it's ever been considering the size of the roster, just a few extreme outliers like Steve/Sonic and Ganon/Mac
All the top tiers are overtuned low risk high reward, the top 3 having no real disadvantage state.
Hot Take - Assist Trophies not getting promoted in the same game was a huge missed opportunity altogether, I'd rather not have them at all. Not to mention they made half a moveset for Zero, Krystal and Knuckles just to make them “glorified items” baka, while half assed movesets like Isabelle's got to see the light of the day. Same with Daisy, Dark Samus and Richter being lazy echoes. Also Min Min and Pythra being former Base Game PNGs and getting the Promotion.
Really, Pyra and Min Min should have been in the game from the start.
Robin was low tier in 4, why the hell did they nerf her in this game
They didn't
Robin is far better in Ultimate than in Smash 4
The surrounding roster is just better suited to deal with Robin
I just miss Arcfire triggering on shields like it did in 4
I thought Ike was pretty good what happened to him?
the change to his nair completely killed him
Nah
The changes he received that decentralized his Nair from his moveset was overall a buff or, at worst, neutral
Ike just isn't a good character
Ike was never good
If you're talking about really early meta days, then those don't count
The beginning of a game's meta is always filled with the hardest hitting and simplest characters which is why everyone always thinks that Ganondorf finally isn't the worst character in the game at the beginning of each Smash game's life
Technically Ganon was never considered the worst in 4 (Puff or Zelda were), and his story for brawl is kinda hilarious.
bad character carried by top player fat short brown mexican MK Leo thats all Ike was just a bad tool with a good tool user.
people learned to parry
One-dimensional character that everyone figured out pretty quickly.
*sigh* another Ultimate thread Meleegays have derailed trying to get people to play their dead game. Why can't y'all just make your own threads ffs?
Melee is superior
Melee has more praticipants than Ultimate in this Genesis. Boomers won. Go back to your goon cave zoomer homosexual. Also MAGA.
Nah, we're simply passing by at your shitlist thread and laughing at the fact half the thread is just rebootgay shitfling, not any genuine discussion over Ultimate's gameplay and modes.
How is Mario so much better than Doc?
For starters his recovery isn't garbage
Slower then Mario which by default makes him worse and his recovery is bad
>Pyra/Mythra are top tiers because...because they just are, ok???
It's actually insane how just being a DLC female sword character automatically makes everything think that's a great character.
They're not bad but they're not at all S worth. It's insane how terrible everyone is at ranking characters.
whats bad about Pyrra and Mythra except their up B lol. They are what Chrom should be.
They are also ranked as Japan’s favorite characters, because of course they are.
>West likes Funny Cartoons
>East likes Chink Cartoons: Anime
we know
Top of west is overall better, but im not gonna pretend some of the top or high in Japan isnt based as well, Like Kirby, Ganon aand Terry being in S.
Aegis is the best designed DLC character. Simple but fun, very viable, easily identifiable strengths and weaknesses. They represent what smash character design should be.
This is the best iteration of smash to date and it will never get better than this. I'm sorry online anons who complain about the online there will always be some sort of tradeoff to latency compensation in all games.
>'m sorry online anons who complain about the online there will always be some sort of tradeoff to latency compensation in all games.
Rollback is better than delay. You sound like the street fighter homosexuals a decade ago defending the shit first party netcode
brawl...home...
>yfw m2k vs salem grandfinals
>goes to set 5
>taking turns juggling each other
>each nearly dying so many times
>FINALLY based black man beats pathetic yet lovable bald boi
it was a sight to behold
Honestly, m2k retiring and Salem (along with a number of other players who didn't deserve it) getting banned really killed a lot of my enjoyment spectating
except for tripping this game was genuinely fun but very unbalanced. You might as well cut the tier list out from C- below dont even try
Genuinely what were they thinking not banning Meta Knight
they tried to but Tri State had all the power because the best players were meta knight players and Japan wouldnt travel to Meta Knight banned events
The game was honestly always fricked regardless, even if MK was cancerous. The game got oppressively campy and the majority of the cast still got auto-lose'd by DDD/ICs for free. The ones that escaped that are ones like Diddy. Brawl's meta even lasted as long as it did because it took awhile for people to just embrace the homosexualry. Ultimate is sadly a better experience even if it is just as gay but in different ways.
Is this list legit?
What a turn of events. Snake and Rob back at the top just like Brawl days?
No the list is old and wrong but right with the top 2 for sure also right in other ways but wrong in so many as well.
Hurt and Zomba doing well.
moron.
>the most cancer annoying characters to play against are also the best ones
Glad I never bought Fighers Pass 2 nor a second year of Nintendo Online. This game is fricked. I actually more or less like the gameplay, best they've done since 64/Melee in the main series, but the online is unplayable and the newest characters are atrocious.
He’ll get better in the next game, right?
Nah
He can literally braindead spam gordos what more do you want Club Penguin?
>Grand Finals of Genesis X this weekend will be Sonic vs Steve
Most excellent, I love Super Smash Bros Ultimate for the Nintendo Switch.
deserved
Smash Ultimate has some of the most unfun characters I've seen in a game. Frick the DLC and frick Sonic.
ultimate looks like the most miserable game to play competitively, and these homies don't even lab to find counter player, everyone just unanimously sits there and takes it and then proceeds to complain on twitter.
People lab
It's just that recently there's no to lab
There's no real counterplay to Steve or Sonic that isn't already being used
>People lab
they quite literally don't every other week on twitter people post shit and go "OMG X CAN DO THAT????" ultimate players do not lab at ALL
You're average Twitter user isn't a real competitive player
You typical low level player in any fighting game doesn't lab
I'm obviously talking about high to top level players
>I'm obviously talking about high to top level players
yeah the vast majority of competitive NA ultimate does not lab, maybe the very top like 3 players but the rest of them do not, they sit and complain on twitter watiting for someone else to do the work for them.
thats why almost nobody beats the top 5 leo, tweek and those people. They dont want to put in the work to see how to overcome they just got good with their main what got buffed to heaven in this this game and just stayed like that expecting to never lose their edge.
this is Samsora, CaptainZack (huge gay) and those gays in a nutshell btw. They want the best tools in the game to fall onto their lap with what they already know, they dont want to learn new ones or to overcome with what they got.
Brawlgays are lazy because they know there will be another patch soon, or another game in a couple years. They have no incentive to truly grind counterplay and lab because they think
>it'll get balance patched
or
>another game will come out we just have to deal with it till then
Happened with Brawl and Metaknight, scene essentially just died. Happened with tr4sh and Bayo, killed the scene. Is happening with ultimate and Steve. Meanwhile Melee meta continues to evolve over time because it's just the same game being mined for further and further depth over two decades.
>Ganondorf is shit tier in every Smash
>instead of changing him to be actually like the games and potentially make him a good character, Sakurai keeps him a semi-clone to pander to nostalgiagays
Frick Sakurai.
The game, unfortunately, isn't only balanced around 1v1 competitive
Ganondorf is actually one the best characters in a free for all setting
If that's the dev team's actual logic that is extremely fricking stupid.
>dev yells at everyone that the game is supposed to be a free-for-all party game you play with friends
>morons are shocked and appalled that the game is balanced around being a free-for-all party game played between friends
It's never been explicitly stated, but it's really obvious that's the case
You can see with Final Smashes in Ultimate as well, and it's why despite adding a Final Smash Meter they never made their way to competitive
Final Smashes like Peach's and Zelda's are overpowered in a 1v1 situation, but in a free for all aren't significantly better than other Final Smashes
Not really, in FFA he just gets smacked around even more and takes hits from all directions, gets assraped by constant items, gets fricked by stage hazards he can't recover from.
Generally good 1v1 characters are good FFA characters too. The same properties that make a character good 1v1 make them good in FFA.
There is/was an entire Discord dedicated to play free for all in Ultimate
They all agreed that Ganon was the best character in the setting mainly because the chaotic nature of the game mode favours Ganon's entire moveset being kill moves
I would actually love to play this game but the online is so shit and the DLC characters are absolutely insufferable to play against. Meanwhile I can just go on Slippi and play Smash without any of that shit.
>Ultimate
>pay for online
>native 6 frame input lag plus insane online lag even with ethernet cable
>matchmaking system character locks you once you've found a match (even Smash4 had a lobby system)
>no way to communicate (even Smash4 had this)
>Melee
>free online
>rollback, seamless gameplay up to like 60+ ping
>matchmaking with actual lobby
>basic communication tags
Smash 4's online had problems but at least it was fricking free. The fact that Nintendo has the balls to charge for their dogshit online on Switch is outrageous.
>inb4 b-but it's cheap! what are you poor
It's not even worth one penny.
why does steve not have the equivalent of this if he's so unfun to play against
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rn99kPPzZsi243Qs1WzVnkfSajg-K5gTav_uVhJkNVk/edit
protect Min Min at all cost
Sm4sh Bayo > Brawl Meta Knight = Ultimate Steve > 64 Pikachu > Melee Fox
it's truly funny how melee fox is memed about being this broken mesiah by every other smash game player (besides 64 tho guys are just having fun doing combos) but their games have even more egregious top tiers
Is melee fox even the true top tier? when Jigglypuff exists and they had to make a ledge grab limit for Puff. idk man.
Puff is the Metaknight of melee.
this never happened and it was just leffen sperging out lol
Pretty sure Fox players were complaining about Marth before.
once again that was leffen sperging LOL, i feel like any and all melee moronation stems from leffen posting something on twitter
Then Fox mains have always been huge homosexuals and thats just the truth
That's correct yes. Solo Fox mains are quite unfiguratively objectively massive homosexuals.
>IBDW
>made up a story about fricking his mom for clout
>now fricks a troony instead
>plays the most bland soulless version of Fox possible because it is a reflection of himself
>Leffen
>is a twink suffering through twink death
>been kicked out of every gaming community he's ever tried to be part of but Smash because Smash community are too pussy to boot him
>made up and supported life-ruining allegations against people he didn't like that he's never apologized for
>SFAT
>is a vegan
The only based Fox player is Hax. Mango is a dual main so doesn't count.
RIP Hax
Leffen can do steroids (Testosterone) and get ripped training heavy, with close to failure lifts + a spotter, he is a tall dude like 6'2 he can be a good looking hapa half-chink half-skyrim the superior Gamer Genes like he says.
Oh thats right what Leffo did to Zero was fricked up, Zero did frick up but he apologized and he didnt do anything it was just a message that he changed his mind on the very same day. Idk why Leffen wanted to frick Zero up it was just sociopath evil spite there maybe Hax was onto something when he said Leffen was "triple triad" lol, I dont believe it but Leffen is def vindictive and spiteful.
Leffen:
>LEDGE CAMPING IS BAD
*Got Banned*
>B-B-BUT AIR CAMPING!!!!
>>>
lol, the community aint gonna give him that one ever though
>Sm4sh Bayo > Brawl Meta Knight
disagreee Meta Knight completely warped the meta around him to the point the whole tier list was based on how well you fought Meta Knight so he would be abvoe Smash 4 Bayo
That's not the point of the list. I'm judging the raw power of all of the best characters. If you pitted Brawl Meta vs Sm4sh Bayo, Meta would get toasted. MK has better recovery, but Bayo has range and projectiles. They both have Touch of Death combos, but Bayo's got more ways to force you into the flowchart.
>Brawl Meta Knight = Ultimate Steve
Not even close you disingenuous homosexual.
Meta Knight was his own tier, HIS, OWN, TIER, even fricking casuals knew he was broken, the entire Brawl Meta revolved around him, he didn't even have A SINGLE LOSING OR NEUTRAL MATCH-UP (Pikachu's was supposedly neutral and even ESAM was against that).
Icies had wobbling, fricking wobbling, and it was legal, AND EVEN THEN they weren't able to be close to MK.
Smash 4 Bayo was busted and became overrepresented in tournaments, and pre-patch Bayo was even worse, but not even her comes close.
Little block man makes for a frustrating neutral but his representation in top tournament doesn't even get close to Bayos, so to compare him with Brawl MK is peak delusion.
Brawl Meta Knight >>>> Smash 4 Bayo > Ultimate Steve >= 64 Pikachu = Melee Fox.
MetaKnight does feel like a final boss compared to the rest of the cast in Brawl ngl, he just moves much faster lol and can recover with any of his Bs in any way he wants. Thats why he is META knight, the knight that conquered the meta.
64 Pikachu is better in his game than Melee Fox is in his. Pika is basically untouchable by anyone but Kirby if the player is playing as shitbag as possible. Pika default demolishes everyone below Kirby except maybe an only solid matchup over Yoshi because Yoshi can parry some of Pika's normal combo starters. Pika has been solo viable all along.
Fox has only been "solo viable" recently with Leffen and IBDW, and Mango winning Summit 11 with solo Fox. Generally Fox has had to be supplemented with secondaries to win tournaments like Armada's Peach and Mango's Falco.
Brawl Meta Knight also has to contend with tripping.
his air game is so strong he really doesnt need to
>Aerials
Brawl Meta Knight is almost never on the ground
Brawl Meta Knight is best because he can passively make you randomly trip.
It’s genuinely disgusting what they’ve done to this series by adding in all sorts of characters who have no business being in the game. It’s not even a proper Nintendo crossover anymore, it’s just a general video game crossover that happens to be majority Nintendo. I mean, really? Fricking Steve? Sakurai has really lost it. Get all of these non-Nintendo homosexuals the frick out of here and go back to the series’ roots. It’s embarrassing at this point.
>tfw lived long enough to watch Smash Bros become MUGEN: everyone vs everyone edition
Can't tell how genuine this post is, but third-parties actually did misguide Smash.
Joker is the questionable inclusion he’s just, kinda there and I really don’t care for Poopsona 5 and don’t care how popular it was at the time. Joker was my literal and I still don’t like his inclusion.
>makes DQ romhack homosexuals crap and piss themselves by existing
Based purse owner.
Some of the 3rd parties are fine.
Snake, Sonic, Street Fighters, Terry, BK, Mega Man, Hero and Belmonts are fine. The rest can frick off or at least get the right rep, like 5 fricking FF7 characters represented and 2 of them playable with nothing for the rest of the series frick off.
Id have said Bayo is fine too but her stupid fricking VA ruined her.
chrom should be higher
i miss smash 4, hope pretendo network supports it when nintendo plugs the online from wii u.
keep dreaming
come to melee bro come to the light you dont have to suffer
Smash 3DS+Citra, right?
Citra or Cemu.
I wonder if Netplay is possible for Smash Run"s Local Co-op mode?
I'd honestly wanna play with you guys if that's reality.
you can since citra online emulates wireless multiplayer instead of 3ds' online.
Sick
I miss Subspace and Smash Run bros.
subspace holds up in Project M, its really good
You're gonna love what veteran Brawl modders are cooking up this year.
https://twitter.com/pikamaxi/status/1751650025648640387
>"True" Boss Battles
https://twitter.com/KingJigglypuff/status/1714378446019641400?t=0AWlC-daxIe3UHsCPHv53A&s=19
?si=bKsWn1iq87eyG9Zu
>SubspaceEX in P+/P+EX (custom characters in SSE, even custom unlock methods and hopefully levels soon)
https://twitter.com/KingJigglypuff/status/1757889781785108636
https://twitter.com/KingJigglypuff/status/1737251715580100767?t=Bw7ZeeadE38P6sMkhF53og&s=19
https://twitter.com/KingJigglypuff/status/1735421743844446692?t=Bw7ZeeadE38P6sMkhF53og&s=19
https://twitter.com/KingJigglypuff/status/1733961825383772652?t=Bw7ZeeadE38P6sMkhF53og&s=19
>ItemEX in P+/P+EX (custom items+makes fake items more possible on custom characters)
one day, the brawlkino of my dreams will be truly realized...
>Tako
Cope, pedo.
The fact that you didn't even go for Arle and instead went for the series that only features adult women says a lot more about you than it does me
At least Arle has real fans, not pedophiles lapping up because some korean dipshit made a terrible animation of some shitty port.
Alright, humor me, what other characters have porn artists "ruined" for you? I've been needing a laugh today.
So you're admitting you're just a shitty coomer pushing for some literal who, not someone from an actual good shmup.
>someone from an actual good shmup.
Reimu?
There's much more than just Touhou, doofus.
Sorry anon, but Konami factually used to be the king and forefather of shooting games and that includes Gradius and its ilk.
The Vic Viper however would be a living nightmare to turn into a Smash fighter, which is why I'm suggesting someone from Parodius would work better since they could be animated like an actual fighter, and since Parodius incorporates a lot of elements from Konami's other shooters and series alongside Gradius itself.
There's also Aoba from the other Gradius subseries Otomedius, but I don't care for her at all and I know you'd be even angrier at that because she's stated to be 15 in-game.
Parodius and it's follow ups was a niche "haha Japan so weird XD" shoot em up 5 shmup/konami fans bring up about, until the child predator shill his stupid animation to all the twitter kids that follow him.
There's no talking out of this one. Imagine being so much of a porn addict to believe Konami and Nintendo wants to associate themselves with some pedophile's dead internet meme.
Also Scramble is a turd, so much people give more credit to Xevious for pioneering the shmups genre early on. also indirectly responsible for the hugest franchise in the fricking world
Nintendo added Joker, whose game says it's A-OK for hot female teachers to have sexual relationships with high school students.
Except the fact none of the art, games, and series featured in Smash Ultimate are by people who admittedly want to prey on kids.
Not Ishikawa, who retired from drawing porn, not even Hashino, who directs Persona games.
I'm really starting to think you're actually LRD.
>Except the fact none of the art, games, and series featured in Smash Ultimate are by people who admittedly want to prey on kids.
Do you actually believe minus8 created and developed Parodius now? At least tell me what other game series are guilty of this.
>Do you actually believe minus8 created and developed Parodius now?
Why, because I'm able to tell who the actual pedophile simp shilling some stupid spinoff character like some swirl symbol?
If you want the Smash rostergays to be investigated next, simply admit it then.
dont worry about the stupid comment about that guy that says you are a "pedo" by association of just liking a fricking animation from an animator you didnt even knew was a pedophile. Its ridiculous and stupid. watching cartoons is not a crime.
Uh, no, the guy actually wants to prey a kid and admitted get aroused by that whenever he puts our his art.
There's a clear difference. This isn't a jap who imported nudist magazines for reference sake or the Made in Abyss guy (who's still pretty suspicious).
>If you want the Smash rostergays to be investigated next
You mean the compgays
>reading comprehension
what is your opinion on Klonoa and the threads that get made about him
What about it?
>two adult women fricking a man
>pedophilic
if smash characters couldn't be added because some shitty meme porn artist made animations of their series then like only Duck Hunt and ROB would be left on the roster
What about Game & Watch?
>What about Game & Watch?
anon, i...
>Amazing Melee Nair
>gets removed for fish bowl
>Amazing Fair
>gets removed for shitty bomb
It ain’t fair G&W Bros
Minus8, who made the animation, is a legit pedophile.
Alright, but what is pedophilic about the animation?
>b-but the animation!
You're really trying to sell a legit pedo's craft to rostergays...are you LRD by any chance?
Matt Groening was associated with Epstein.
Does this mean I am a pedophile if I watch the Simpsons and Futurama?
Unless Groening was preying on kids, then no.
Even then, there's more normalgay Simpson fans than your average gay participating in trash like "Lisamania". So doesn't matter either way.
the nu-Parodius fans are all pedophile apologists.
Sucks this wasn't already happening a decade ago.
Sceptile looks fricking sick.
the feels
>fricking bottom tier
There's LITERALLY no reason to NOT give Ganondorf a rework when these two high/upper mid tiered c**ts exist.
Add fricking Pig Ganon already, dammit.
>game releases
>noobs online getting krushed by fat croc because he has armor
>is still a shit character regardless
>Sakurai nerfs him even further into the ground because shitters complained so now he's among the worst in the game
Shitters complaining fricking killed Pichu and I will never forgive them for nerfing my boy after he was the worst fricking character in Melee
Same shit happened with Little Mac in the early 3DS For Glory days
But hey, at least he brought back your fat croc from the shelf, even if it's only just Ultimate.
move seph down a tier
sonic being the best character in a nintendo fighting game says a lot about our society
I main Bowser jr, K.Rool and Dr. Mario. All bottom tier. I hate the balancing in this game.
>Sonic
Da frick happened?
he just plays campy hit and run style until the timer runs out often wins by % or stock lead
He shot up in rankings because he's the only character that can pressure and play around Steve. Steve is now shaping the meta.
Got it so a natural reaction. Due to steve tardnation.
The devs failed Ridley. He's one of those characters that could've became high tier overnight if they corrected his biggest flaws but they were afraid to make bold changes to any character.
*saves the genre*
Glad they're making this without any input by Smashified hacks, fricking Rolling Rascal lmao.
>competitive smash
Eunich Fighter Super Turbo looking raw
>Belmonts, the coolest new addition, are bottom tier because they're slow zoners
Funny Pichu and Y.Link dropped off so hard, I remember seeing a lot of those two early on.
>ctrl+F plant
>0 results
shit tier list
Plant suffers from having no way to deal with projectile spammers and no way to get rushdown fighters off of him. He's basically a heavy that specializes in beating other heavies, but how often do you see Ganondorf, DK, or D3?
the Reddit Plant fad died years ago, no everyone agrees it's just a meh chaos choice.
>game and watch S tier
feels good being a baconater
>Lucas
>C- tier
And he's always a letter behind Ness....
>yfw Link went from best Link to worst Link
At least he'll never be cut..
>At least he'll never be cut..
We still need to do something about the Link bloat.
young link is the best though
Young link is in the game, don't worry.
Hoping they drop him and Tink for chad Awakening/Oracles Link
Banjoke is too high, and Shitra is way too high.
Ganondorf needs some companions, after all.
DOCBROS WE AREN'T AT THE FRICKING BOTTOM
LET'S FRICKING GO
Greninja is Water/Dark; it became playable in smash bros
Incineroar is Fire/Dark; it became playable in smash bros
Meowscarada is Grass/Dark...
its most popular starter of the gen and almost a certainty for smash
Is Ganon really worse than Mac? Sure, his recovery is dookie garbo, but I feel like his fast aerials and jabs would give him a leg up, no?
mac is also fast and can cheese lower levels with super armor smash attacks
>kazuya anywhere below S with his touch of death bullshit
Smashgays...
He's literally the top of A+ and gatekeeper of the S-tiers. That's accurate.
>Belmonts D-
T3Dom will win a major, i know it
Will you guys be picking up the Sora Amiibo?
https://twitter.com/sora_sakurai/status/1758292397354828193?s=46
>not KH2 outfit Sora
Not buying.
Ikr missed opportunities
>liked G&W and ROB in Melee/Brawl back when they were absolute trash
>Now get accused of being a metagay by my friends for using them
ROB has never been considered trash
Why do trannies always feel so important that they call everything they make "official"
because they cannot conceive anything irl its impotent, potentialless, lifeless, dead end behavior.
Or maybe because Smashboards is fricking dead as frick, so there isn't a widely agreed tier list to agree on.
Remember the Smash/PM Backroom tier lists? I sure don't.
Snake
ok, I haven't kept tabs for a year or so. Who put snake on the map?
>Lucina
>Literally and unironically a clone of Marth
>Somehow two entire tiers apart
what?
Marth has tippers and Lucina doesnt
Lucina is the generic shorthop nair b***h
Marth is hard work swordie incarnate
>Last bit of the thread wasted on a boring topic about pedo artists or some shit
Not the proudest way to end off a thread if you ask me
Me - 1
Minuspedos - 0
Next time, request a good shmup character.
Go back to twitter if you get this worked up over a cartoon.
>Go back to [GROOMER HOTBED]
Haha yeah im worked up over drawings, not your pathetic groomer-styled push for a literal fricking who because you saw minushomosexual's Parodius porn movie.
Imagine if i was like this with Kumatora posters, just imagine. At least Noill isn't a real pedophile, i won't fuss you over that. You're still a fricking gooner shill if you're seriously requesting her at all.
>i-i'm not worked up over drawings, i'm just angry because you saw a drawing i didn't like!! [citation needed]
No one cares about your "epic" nobody artist drama.
KABOOM
>n-nobody ca-ca-.... AAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Fricking SHITren animal, get out of my sight.
Go shill your pervert octopus else where before i call the border police.
And 13 oz. Babyjak reveals himself.
Go back to your Vidya Bros. circlejerk.
If you truly cared about what you spewed out of your mouth you wouldn't do it here. Verification not required.
Speedoru is better anyways
I don't use Discord.
You guys are running out of boogeymen, surprised nobody accused me as a shartcuck yet.
can't believe it it took some miserable group of ex-/qa/ homosexuals to frick over minus8, kek.
>spoiler
qrd?
You know how those 14 year old dipshits kept trying to dox random people they don't like? The useful idiots finally eyed at minusloser.
I can finally sleep knowing the pedo can't cry on social media anymore, no more WAAAAAAH I NEED MORE ATTENTION. Well you got the shitty wojak cult attention. Not my problem, have fun getting chased by /b/tard rejects.
im glad Ganker isnt the reality of smash-related happenings