>WAAAAAAAAAAAAAH THERE IS NO COUNTERPLAY AGAINST SLEEP WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
It exists and it's called Sleep Talk, Insomnia, Chesto Berry and Komala
Git gud, homosexualgon
i'm seen some success with a rest chesto annihilape. tank a little damage, heal it up, rage fist boosted. it feels simple, there are probably more reliable methods, but it works.
1. Sleep had been restricted for almost 2 decades. Sleep Clause before was implementing the Sleep Clause mechanic from the Stadium games and Stadium like games into the mainline games.
The new Sleep Clause makes it so Sleep Clause is more inline with other clauses so it isn’t complex or breaking game mechanics.
2. “[Specific Ability/Move] Counters [Banned thing]!” is not a good argument because is completely neglects that there isn’t 1 sleep setter or evasion abuser, and how each abuser needs to be handled differently.
Say your sleep answer is Murkrow because it has le Insomnia. Since this is your only answer to sleep on your team, you get royally frick when your opponent’s sleep setter is a Fairy type or has any coverage to beat Murkrow with. Your opponent just KOs Murkrow and puts to sleep the rest of your team causing you to be unable to do literally anything.
3. Chesto Berry or any 1 time use item (besides Trick Pecha Berry Gholdengo vs Gliscor) isn’t a counter to sleep. This is going to shock you, but your opponent can just click sleep move a second time.
If you’re going to say “but X counters Y” at least think about how the scenario would actually play out, instead of looking at bulbapedia pages to see X does.
>“[Specific Ability/Move] Counters [Banned thing]!” is not a good argument because is completely neglects that there isn’t 1 hazard setter, and how each abuser needs to be handled differently. >Say your hazard answer is Starmie because it has le Rapid Spin. Since this is your only answer to hazards on your team, you get royally frick when your opponent’s hazard setter is an Electric type or has any coverage to beat Starmie with. Your opponent just KOs Starmie and chips the rest of your team to death with hazards causing you to be unable to do literally anything.
moronic post.
You aren’t royally fricked if your spinner is Starmie and your opponent has an electric type. You can always rapid spin against electric types. The only thing you can’t rapid spin against are Ghost types, and the only thing that blocks Defog is Gholdengo.
Plus your opponent keeping up their hazards is significantly better than your opponent putting your entire team to sleep.
All the morons who cry about Smogon banning Evasion or Sleep are barely able to read a Dr. Seuss book in one sitting. The only thing worse than saying “just use Aerial Ace to beat Evasion” is “Use your Melee if you think Short Circuit is an OP weapon”.
Lum berries absolutely are a counter for sleep. >they switch in their sleep setter >they expect you to either switch or be put to sleep >you are put to sleep >you immediately wake up and attack them
>Counter relies on your opponent doing what you want them to do >Counter only works one time >Counter does not account for when your opponent has their sleep user out when your sleep counter isn't out >Counter still doesn't account for what can slot in sleep moves (ie Lum/Chesto Berry Dragonite vs Hypnosis Alolan Ninetales or Iron Valaint)
Posts like these only prove low elo shitters are the only people who get such hate boners over Smogon.
Staving off the ban on tera really broke the smogongays' brains. While their are vocal detractors, people generally didn't mind the metagame you guys tried to build. The viscerally negative reaction to banning sleep from virtually everyone outside of the council circlejerk should tell you morons something.
Kyurem is broken. It will be banned again, unlike Magearna or Melmetal, because it doesn't offer significant defensive utility, only offensive pressure
>it doesn't offer significant defensive utility, only offensive pressure
and?
for a second it seemed you were on to something but then it becomes obvious that many mons in history have been wallbreakers only that happen to provide necessary offensive utility nothing else can, without which certain offensive strategies become unviable
I mean, I get the exhaustion with the extreme team standardization in competitive formats. It sucks facing the same Pokémon, teams, strategies, etc. over and over and over again. But I guess that’s just how competitive metas work. I’m not totally sure how you could combat this kind of strategic standardization (if it’s even really possible).
It’s not, nor should it be expected. If you ban the top thing then something else becomes the top thing. Then what? Ban that, too? For the sin of being the best out of what’s left?
Honestly I only view smotards as part of a bigger problem. That being people trying to tack on a hyper-competitive play style/ruleset to what is ultimately a single player childrens RPG that happens to have a multiplayer component.
The original intent of VS battles was that you and a friend would battle each other on the school bus or whatever with the Pokemon you caught over the course of your respective playthroughs.
Competitive play was an afterthought for the longest time. The Pokemon developers are willing to lean into competitive a little more nowadays since their target audience is no longer children but manchildren but it's still ass.
I would agree with this, if it wasn't for the fact that stupid shit like IVs and EVs exist.
If it was only for casual PVE content and occasional battling against friends, why is obscure shit that only competitive gays care about even in the games in the first place?
Not to mention the obtuse way they implement new systems and how unnecessarily complicated they make them for children and how they don't explain a fricking thing about them.
IVs don't serve any competitive purpose. It's only there to inject extra RNG into the game. In competitive you just always max them out, there's no strategy there. Yes hidden power, but that could've easily been determined by some other arbitrary mechanic.
The in-game purpose of EVs is also primarily to inject RNG, but also to disincentive overleveling. Your party Pokemon will always have a slight advantage over wild and trainer Pokemon even if you're underleveled.
I could easily flip your question the other way around.
"If Pokemon was meant for competitive PvP battling, why would they deliberately obscure and hide such important mechanics from the player?"
Up until HGSS the most you were told about natures is that they change "something" about a Pokemon's capabilities. Hell even though HGSS shows which stats are raised and lowered by natures, they never make the connection that it's tied to nature.
EVs are only hinted at in 3 ways >vitamins raise certain stats >some berries lower certain stats >Equipping the macho brace makes your stats grow faster
And IVs are only explained by the IV judge, and who the frick knows what he's talking about without looking it up?
These mechanics were made simply to make every pokemon unique by having a unique stat spread, and stat growth. If they truly meant for this to be competitive first, they wouldn't make you go through dozens of hours of hatching eggs (hell they never even explain egg groups in the games) just to find the one pokemon with a good stat spread, then spend more hours grinding (seemingly) random pokemon to get the correct stat growth on a pokemon. They've only introduced mechanics like hyper training and super training (which was hilariously taken away) to try to make up for the fact that the games clearly weren't made to be played competitively in their base form.
Smogon is not "hypercompetitive" at all. They're manchildren that try to ban anything they lose to or forces them to make concessions to the teambuilding they desire.
Being competitive is adapting, which smogoBlack folk don't do.
Anything that counters lando-t MUST BE BANNED. CHILDREN MUST BE RAPED AND SACRIFICED TO UPHOLD THE OU META. SUMMON THE COUNCIL FOR LORD LANDO HUNGERS FOR PEDO RAPE
I dont know how to use this forum is anyone else from the smogon discord? i dont know if this is the thread finch wanted us to go to and can they see this?
*/vp/ complaining about Smogon
Caption not necessary, we already knew
Charizard fanboys when rocks exist
next week finch is gonna ban rock
i do look like that and say that
typical scissorgay
t.rockchad
>WAAAAAAAAAAAAAH THERE IS NO COUNTERPLAY AGAINST SLEEP WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
It exists and it's called Sleep Talk, Insomnia, Chesto Berry and Komala
Git gud, homosexualgon
i'm seen some success with a rest chesto annihilape. tank a little damage, heal it up, rage fist boosted. it feels simple, there are probably more reliable methods, but it works.
NOOOOOOO THAT'S NOT RELIABLE ENOUGH I MUST PRESS 1 BUTTON AND WIN THEN SWITCH REEEEE
or also you dont let them put you to sleep. Or you just live through the sleep, 1-3 turns is much more generous than 3-5 turns plus wake up turn
1. Sleep had been restricted for almost 2 decades. Sleep Clause before was implementing the Sleep Clause mechanic from the Stadium games and Stadium like games into the mainline games.
The new Sleep Clause makes it so Sleep Clause is more inline with other clauses so it isn’t complex or breaking game mechanics.
2. “[Specific Ability/Move] Counters [Banned thing]!” is not a good argument because is completely neglects that there isn’t 1 sleep setter or evasion abuser, and how each abuser needs to be handled differently.
Say your sleep answer is Murkrow because it has le Insomnia. Since this is your only answer to sleep on your team, you get royally frick when your opponent’s sleep setter is a Fairy type or has any coverage to beat Murkrow with. Your opponent just KOs Murkrow and puts to sleep the rest of your team causing you to be unable to do literally anything.
3. Chesto Berry or any 1 time use item (besides Trick Pecha Berry Gholdengo vs Gliscor) isn’t a counter to sleep. This is going to shock you, but your opponent can just click sleep move a second time.
If you’re going to say “but X counters Y” at least think about how the scenario would actually play out, instead of looking at bulbapedia pages to see X does.
why cant you also use sleep
>smogongays are too moronic to just not let the sleep user use any sleeping moves in the first place
>“[Specific Ability/Move] Counters [Banned thing]!” is not a good argument because is completely neglects that there isn’t 1 hazard setter, and how each abuser needs to be handled differently.
>Say your hazard answer is Starmie because it has le Rapid Spin. Since this is your only answer to hazards on your team, you get royally frick when your opponent’s hazard setter is an Electric type or has any coverage to beat Starmie with. Your opponent just KOs Starmie and chips the rest of your team to death with hazards causing you to be unable to do literally anything.
moronic post.
You aren’t royally fricked if your spinner is Starmie and your opponent has an electric type. You can always rapid spin against electric types. The only thing you can’t rapid spin against are Ghost types, and the only thing that blocks Defog is Gholdengo.
Plus your opponent keeping up their hazards is significantly better than your opponent putting your entire team to sleep.
>IT'S NOT A COUNTER BECAUSE... BECAUSE... I SAID SO OKAY?!?!?1?!?1?
He explained why it's not a counter, not his fault you can't read.
All the morons who cry about Smogon banning Evasion or Sleep are barely able to read a Dr. Seuss book in one sitting. The only thing worse than saying “just use Aerial Ace to beat Evasion” is “Use your Melee if you think Short Circuit is an OP weapon”.
Smogon cope lmao. Your format is bad and exclusively for bad players
Lum berries absolutely are a counter for sleep.
>they switch in their sleep setter
>they expect you to either switch or be put to sleep
>you are put to sleep
>you immediately wake up and attack them
>Counter relies on your opponent doing what you want them to do
>Counter only works one time
>Counter does not account for when your opponent has their sleep user out when your sleep counter isn't out
>Counter still doesn't account for what can slot in sleep moves (ie Lum/Chesto Berry Dragonite vs Hypnosis Alolan Ninetales or Iron Valaint)
Posts like these only prove low elo shitters are the only people who get such hate boners over Smogon.
>smogongay is too moronic for basic strategy
Predictable!
It's not a basic strategy, you're just moronic and only fight other morons so you have no clue what a competent opponent looks like.
Staving off the ban on tera really broke the smogongays' brains. While their are vocal detractors, people generally didn't mind the metagame you guys tried to build. The viscerally negative reaction to banning sleep from virtually everyone outside of the council circlejerk should tell you morons something.
nobody with sense wants tera banned
the only sensible measure was and is tera reveal
Why are rock gays so moronic? This only proves paper chads are on top yet again
>gets mogged hard by crushable scissors
delusional
>Finchinator when Kyurem shows up on team preview
Kyurem is broken. It will be banned again, unlike Magearna or Melmetal, because it doesn't offer significant defensive utility, only offensive pressure
>it doesn't offer significant defensive utility, only offensive pressure
and?
for a second it seemed you were on to something but then it becomes obvious that many mons in history have been wallbreakers only that happen to provide necessary offensive utility nothing else can, without which certain offensive strategies become unviable
Dumbass. Everyone knows Rock is the best one.
>crushes scissors
>tears through paper
Why would you pick anything else
>Banned from tournament play
I mean, I get the exhaustion with the extreme team standardization in competitive formats. It sucks facing the same Pokémon, teams, strategies, etc. over and over and over again. But I guess that’s just how competitive metas work. I’m not totally sure how you could combat this kind of strategic standardization (if it’s even really possible).
It’s not, nor should it be expected. If you ban the top thing then something else becomes the top thing. Then what? Ban that, too? For the sin of being the best out of what’s left?
that's what tiers are for but modern smogon tards don't have any conception of actually balancing a game its just "thing too good -> ban"
Honestly I only view smotards as part of a bigger problem. That being people trying to tack on a hyper-competitive play style/ruleset to what is ultimately a single player childrens RPG that happens to have a multiplayer component.
The original intent of VS battles was that you and a friend would battle each other on the school bus or whatever with the Pokemon you caught over the course of your respective playthroughs.
Competitive play was an afterthought for the longest time. The Pokemon developers are willing to lean into competitive a little more nowadays since their target audience is no longer children but manchildren but it's still ass.
I would agree with this, if it wasn't for the fact that stupid shit like IVs and EVs exist.
If it was only for casual PVE content and occasional battling against friends, why is obscure shit that only competitive gays care about even in the games in the first place?
Not to mention the obtuse way they implement new systems and how unnecessarily complicated they make them for children and how they don't explain a fricking thing about them.
IVs don't serve any competitive purpose. It's only there to inject extra RNG into the game. In competitive you just always max them out, there's no strategy there. Yes hidden power, but that could've easily been determined by some other arbitrary mechanic.
The in-game purpose of EVs is also primarily to inject RNG, but also to disincentive overleveling. Your party Pokemon will always have a slight advantage over wild and trainer Pokemon even if you're underleveled.
I could easily flip your question the other way around.
"If Pokemon was meant for competitive PvP battling, why would they deliberately obscure and hide such important mechanics from the player?"
Up until HGSS the most you were told about natures is that they change "something" about a Pokemon's capabilities. Hell even though HGSS shows which stats are raised and lowered by natures, they never make the connection that it's tied to nature.
EVs are only hinted at in 3 ways
>vitamins raise certain stats
>some berries lower certain stats
>Equipping the macho brace makes your stats grow faster
And IVs are only explained by the IV judge, and who the frick knows what he's talking about without looking it up?
These mechanics were made simply to make every pokemon unique by having a unique stat spread, and stat growth. If they truly meant for this to be competitive first, they wouldn't make you go through dozens of hours of hatching eggs (hell they never even explain egg groups in the games) just to find the one pokemon with a good stat spread, then spend more hours grinding (seemingly) random pokemon to get the correct stat growth on a pokemon. They've only introduced mechanics like hyper training and super training (which was hilariously taken away) to try to make up for the fact that the games clearly weren't made to be played competitively in their base form.
Smogon is not "hypercompetitive" at all. They're manchildren that try to ban anything they lose to or forces them to make concessions to the teambuilding they desire.
Being competitive is adapting, which smogoBlack folk don't do.
Me on the left
Anything that counters lando-t MUST BE BANNED. CHILDREN MUST BE RAPED AND SACRIFICED TO UPHOLD THE OU META. SUMMON THE COUNCIL FOR LORD LANDO HUNGERS FOR PEDO RAPE
>/vp/ when their team of 6 ZUs gets 6-0d by gambit
Aren't you supposed to be deepthroating israelitechinator's smegma-riddled microdick?
Finchjewnator
Haven't played comp in years. Are status absorbers not a thing anymore?
i shouldnt have to use pokemon to deal with other pokemon
I dont know how to use this forum is anyone else from the smogon discord? i dont know if this is the thread finch wanted us to go to and can they see this?
As if we didn't need more evidence that smogongays actively raid /vp/
I don't know if you're moronic or I am