try getting better at the game instead of living in the imaginary universe where only your opponent can do it and not you just so you have an excuse whenever you lose
This one wasn't really a terra thing. It was unburden with defense seed and the grass israelite monkey getting back grassy glide. Dire claw was also an rng a win out of its ass if you brought a dedicated counter
I believe it was due to Unburden + SD, which was made even better due to the Grassy Terrain/Seed stuff, and having Acrobatics. Surprisingly, I don’t think Dire Claw was really a deciding factor.
It technically wasn't because Sneasler on its own using Poison Jab/Gunk Shot would be broken anyways, but Dire Claw is still definitely bullshit no one wants to see.
DING DING DING! They don't say it outwardly, but Sneasler COULD in fact ruin Gholdengo's day with a boosted Lash Out or Shadow Claw, and its common Tera options aside from Flying and Fairy left it highly susceptible to taking massive damage from Close Combat.
>It could ruin the single Pokemon that can even switch into it safely with coverage that doesn’t require Tera
You say that like Smogon is trying to protect Gholdengo and not as Sneasler being a fricking broken piece of shit.
Dude just play older gen OUs. Gen 2, Adv and Gen 4 are pretty peak with active player bases and they're not constantly going through moronic ban/unban decisions because the metas are more or less decided. They're also some of the more balanced metas.
Gen2OU appeals to the most autistic of Pokemon players, primarily.
*Some* zoomers do get into it like Susciety, who used to be a gen5ou player but has abandoned it in favor of GSC. But it remains the single least popular OU of all gen-OUs, playcount-wise.
Banning Snorlax just creates a cascade effect where other blatantly imbalanced Pokemon rise to prominence and make the format even worse. They would be banned if it was modern metagame, but as it's a legacy one (that was established AFTER the gen was already over to boot) no one wants to fricking bother. If you're playing GSC OU in the modern day you know exactly that you're signing up for anyways.
I’ve played ADV, I don’t think it’s as good as people are shilling it to be. Not enough options to always prevent a game from being a coinflip, or losing on lead matchup if you make a single wrong guess sometimes
the more pokemon smogon bans the better, it makes them look more and more moronic each time they do it and people will realize it's a complete clown format that isn't worth taking remotely seriously.
"Smogon" is not a format, moron. It's a website. Every gen is split into multiple usage-based formats, the point of which is allowing every Pokémon to function competently in some kind of environment. It lets you retain all the fundamentals you learn playing the game (single battles and the number of hits you need to KO) while also providing the novelty of making even shitmons feel good. VGC is the clown format. Just look at all the fricking Primal Groudon and Zacian in recent history. VGC forces you to play whatever dumb shit GameFreak cooked up that season unless you play 3v3 Singles, for which GameFreak doesn't balance. Has Smogon made mistakes? Yes. Has it gotten worse than ever this gen? Yes. Can you still use Smogon to play a billion other formats on Showdown? Yes.
>i-it allows pokemon to function competently somewhere
Cool! How do I use Sneasler or Baxcalibur or Espathra now without them getting completely shat on by Koraidon and Miraidon and Zacian?
> It lets you retain all the fundamentals you learn playing the game
Not really. Fanfic is such a moronic arbitrary format that the strategies are barely the same.
> 3v3 Singles, for which GameFreak doesn't balance.
They do balance for it though.
>it is a format
No, you fricking idiot, Smogon cannot be a format because they host a variety of formats. Gen 5 RU is a format. Gen 4 UU is a format. Gen 8 National Dex OU is a format. All of them are within Smogon. There is no singular Smogon Ruleset apart from "6V6 with species and sleep clause," which is the same number of basic rules for an official format, except they switched Item Clause for Sleep Clause. >Espathra, Bax, Sneasler
Mons banned to Uber are the only point I'll concede on because it's been especially bad the last two gens to the point that people want a tier between Ubers and OU. There will eventually be such a tier just like there are tons of other formats people play that depart from OU >moronic and arbitrary
Ah yes, much more moronic than "you can have 6 pokemon on your team, but you can't use them all because we really wanted a sideboard mechanic to make it more like rock paper scissors." Singles is more similar to in-game than doubles and it's just not close. The proof is in strategies used and the fact that it's played in fricking singles. >they do
Interesting. Tell me about how good a job they did balancing Greninja, Mega Gengar, Mega Kanga, Mega Mence, and more when they only have to nab 3 kills.
>All of them are within Smogon
Yes, the Smogon format.
>Mons banned to Uber are the only point I'll concede on
Glad you agree fanfic is garbage.
>Ah yes, much more moronic than "you can have 6 pokemon on your team, but you can't use them all because we really wanted a sideboard mechanic to make it more like rock paper scissors."
More like "you can have 6 pokemon on your team, but you can't use them all because we actually know how to design our game and realized allowing all 6 pokemon at once turns the game into a moronic defensively favored switchfest that makes a bunch of things moronicly unbalanced"
>Tell me about how good a job they did balancing Greninja, Mega Gengar, Mega Kanga, Mega Mence
Greninja has literally never been broken and they balanced Megas by removing them.
I see from the very first point you're not interested in a discussion because you've ignored what I said. I'm going to respond to you one last time and then you can go about your day. >the smogon format
That does not exist. As I stated previously, Smogon is a website. The formats are the tiers. "Smogon formats" is a correct descriptor, "the Smogon format" is not. This is like the difference between saying "limited formats" and "the limited format" in MTG. It's not the same thing. >glad you agree
I don't, you're being moronic because you feel the need to set yourself up to post "I accept your concession" or something. Tiers are a necessary evil so I can go play with shitmons. I don't get to play with the 3 mons you mentioned in OU, but I can go play any NU under the sun with like 100 shitmons that would never be worth using in VGC, Battle Spot, or OU if I wanted to actually win a game. That's a tradeoff I'll take. I prefer this to "the official format allows box legendaries this season." >defensively favored switchfest
God forbid I have to play the game for 20 turns. Hyper offense exists too. 6 mons will by definition open up for options than 3 because then you're just rolling for good matchups with 3 good mons. Doubles are more complex, but what does it matter when the game is "balanced" in such a way that top cuts have metrics like 80% usage of a specific mon? Playing into an open field with less options means you're even more likely to default to a particular combination of mons. You're just adding another layer of matchups to the game. Considering the massive outcry over battle timers and how insane the past 2 gens have been, you are delusional if you think GameFreak knows how to balance their game. If they do, they're purposely not doing so anymore. >balanced Megas by removing them >Greninja was never broken
Greninja was fricking insane in battle spot. First Protean, then ash against 3 mons. As for megas, you have to know how dumb that sounds.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>That does not exist
It does exist. It's the clown 6v6 format where things are arbitrarily banned.
>Tiers are a necessary evil
That's weird. Why am I able to play the game just fine without them then?
>I can play with shitmons
That's weird. Why am I able to use shitmons without them then?
>God forbid I have to play the game for 20 turns
God forbid I play short games that aren't suddenly decided by RNG on the 112th turn.
>6 mons will by definition open up for options than 3 because then you're just rolling for good matchups with 3 good mons
That's the reason Team Preview still exists with 6 Pokemon. Have you tried being less shit at the game?
>Greninja was fricking insane in battle spot
No. It's good. Not broken. And it's barely even good now that they nerfed Protean. So clearly they do balance singles.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>then ash against 3 mons
Ash-Greninja has always been illegal in BSS you moron. It's treated like a Mythical Pokemon.
Maybe you should play the game instead of staring at the fanfic format.
6 months ago
Anonymous
I forgot that particular detail because I didn't play BSS in Gen 7. Gen 6 was moronic enough for me. But no, I think I'll play my many good formats (plural) and ignore the Gen 9 OU format (singular) instead of the two official formats (plural) that GameFreak is offering in SV.
>species
I play dota when I’m not playing Pokemon. Given theres been trainers in the anime without a doubt that’ve battle Ash with more than one of the same pokemon. What’s the reason species clause is a part of the rules
It just seems kind of intuitive, I think. VGC uses a species clause too. Even 2 of the same Pokémon would make 1/3 of your team the same ugly model. Some mons would probably be really ridiculous like this, too, where you use 3 of the same sweeper and just brutally hammer your opponent with 3 things that beat their answers. It would be a much bigger pain in the ass to navigate how to play. For some people, that would add intrigue, but not to me. My question is Item Clause. For an item like Leftovers or Choice Scarf, it takes quite a lot of suspension of disbelief to think I couldn't just find 2 apples or buy 2 scarves
6 months ago
Anonymous
Item clause hurts stall. It will never happen in Smogon, but that's why it should.
Species clause is similar in that it promotes creativity with a team.
But it treating regional variants as the same species is dumb.
6 months ago
Anonymous
For a format that wants to stay so close to the game's 6v6 format, it's kinda dumb to not have item clause enabled. I'm pretty sure basically every battle facility through every games had it enabled. But yeah it'd pretty much never happen now with big stall around, unless stall becomes really fricking strong for some reason (very unlikely)
>it's been especially bad the last two gens to the point that people want a tier between Ubers and OU.
There doesn't need to be a tier between ubers and OU, Smogon needs to get their head out of their ass and realize some Pokemon like Garchomp are simply UU now. There is no reason 3 teams worth of normal fricking Pokemon should be banned because they're "too strong for OU" that's an entire fricking tier worth of Pokemon
Yeah and we have 18 (3 teams) of Pokemon that aren't even mythicals or restricted Pokemon just banned from it because "nuuuu they will be used too much they are too strong".
What is even the point of OU? Isn't it supposed to be where you use the most broken non-box legend bullshit, with bans for other Pokemon as a very rare exception? Now it's in some weird state where they're trying to force hazards to be a huge deal constantly.
6 months ago
Anonymous
It really comes down to what the players playing the tier want.
Like in Gen 2 OU Celebi is banned despite the fact that it isn't that strong because the people who still play that tier like the tier more without Celebi.
Unless it's an emergency ban everyone gets together and votes on what they want. If you disagree with a decision you can earn a vote on the issue just like everyone else.
>Pokemon can be overused but they can't ACTUALLY be overused
With how many Pokemon are introduced with every new Gen, there should be 1-2 two more formats created.
The problem is they ban shit like Volcarona and Sneasler which while good, are easily dealt with.
And they don't ban shit with +50% usage like Kingambit, LandoT in previous gens, and aside from Gliscor anything stall.
then the smogontrannies sunk their dirty fangs and claws into it and now it's worse, yet somehow despite that STILL the best and most playable metagame
they nerfed Gen III hard and it still came out on top
I agree. I actually tried Gen9OU around the middle of the year shortly before and around the time of the first DLC drop, and I thought it actually wasn't really even that bad. Tera makes the game very fun.
But I despise smogontrannies banning things left and right because, as Verlisify says, they are casual manchildren who would rather remove what's preventing them from winning than adapt to it.
I quit soon after because why bother wasting your time playing Smogonshit anymore? They're total homosexuals who want to dictate how you have fun. I can't even use my first team I made for the tier anymore because one of its members got banned.
what was it? The combo of Unburden and Dire Claw with CC is pretty wild, but nothing other shit couldn't handle. Maybe people shouldn't rely so much on Kingambit and Gholdengo
It was the combo of Tera+Unburden which broke it. Tera Acrobatics+Stabs is pretty fricking hard to stop, your only hope is Dhengo + Unaware mons and the former hates the surprise coverage and the latter can be haxed.
Gen 7 isn't seeing any "huge resurgence", to my knowledge. It had already been the most popular non-current gen OU for many years until being dethroned by Gen 3 OU only last month.
Smogon made sense back in gen 3 and 4 when there was no real official ranked ladder and when their bans weren't utterly moronic.
Now I have no clue why anyone bothers still playing it. Then again I doubt most of the people who even talk about Smogon positively actually play it, they just like to stare at the fricking tier lists and make memes about them so they can pretend they're knowledgeable about the game.
Smogon is the biggest single community for competitive Pokemon. Also most good players can only be found on showdown since no one is bothered to grind their own in game team. If you also play for prize money and tournaments you have to stick to the ban rule. However there if always the draft league where every mon is legal and you have to play on in game catridge but thats limited to a closed group.
>Smogon is the biggest single community for competitive Pokemon
No. The people who play the game are the biggest single community for competitive Pokemon. Japanese players alone don't even acknowledge Smogon's existence.
>I don’t know why people still support it
Because there is no official singles format and the games don’t actually do anything ingame to prepare or teach players about doubles. Some people just prefer sticking to what they know. It’s not that surprising.
>Because there is no official singles format
Yes, there is. If you go into the PvP menu singles is literally right there next to doubles. Are you moronic?
>Japanese players alone don't even acknowledge Smogon's existence.
That is false lol. A lot of Japanese play on showdown.
YOU DUMBFRICK moron, singles is not an official meta for nintendo. All their tournaments are doubles you shithead.
That's what people want, that's what Smogon tries to offer
You fail to understand that Smogon is popular because people want it to be, they agree to play with those rules in spite of gamefreak preferences, it's a gentleman agreement between players when played on cart or simulator
It always puzzled me why people would b***h about Smogon if they play on cart, you have your own match-making for your awful game modes and doubles so it never made sense why would you be upset about people trying to organise games to their liking
>I don’t know why people still support it
Because there is no official singles format and the games don’t actually do anything ingame to prepare or teach players about doubles. Some people just prefer sticking to what they know. It’s not that surprising.
I always found that so fricking stupid. if doubles are the official competitive format why are doubles treated like a throwaway gimmick in single player? coliseum has the right idea, if they want comp to be accessible they should just make it the default battle style, with singles reserved for dramatic plot shit or whatever. it would also make smoggies seethe which is always funny
>why are doubles treated like a throwaway gimmick in single player?
It wont be anymore, dlc2 is all about doubles and tag team battles. GF is pushing more and more doubles only playwise.
that’s cool I guess. I don’t play any of these moronic nugen games so I’ll take your word for it. maybe they’ll finally have taken enough “steps in the right direction” for gen 10 to click into place and be actually good
Pokemon wants to be both a singleplayer rpg (leading to shit like rng, ivs and unbalanced mons/moves) and a competitive esport, when the two things are almost antithetical, gimping both single and multiplayer in the process
>I want to play doubles >no I won't actually click the doubles button on the PvP menu I want to spend the entire game mindlessly sweeping npcs and pretend it's remotely similar to playing competitive doubles!
why are morons like this?
>no you can’t just expect the game to teach you these things through playing it, you need to watch my favorite poketubers explain it to you and use internet guides and prebuilt teams instead
the real moron here is you, holy shit pokehomosexuals are embarrassing
The toddler campaign doesn't teach you shit. If you want to learn just play the game. But you won't do that because you're a pussy who's too afraid of losing.
That's what people want, that's what Smogon tries to offer
You fail to understand that Smogon is popular because people want it to be, they agree to play with those rules in spite of gamefreak preferences, it's a gentleman agreement between players when played on cart or simulator
It always puzzled me why people would b***h about Smogon if they play on cart, you have your own match-making for your awful game modes and doubles so it never made sense why would you be upset about people trying to organise games to their liking
>That's what people want
Who's "people"? The tiny minority who plays fanfic in the first place while everyone else just stares at the tier updates every month?
6 months ago
Anonymous
>the campaign doesn’t teach you shit
yes correct thank you for finally understanding the argument. you’re a little slow huh? the fact you can’t understand why this is bad game design is what marks you as a moron unfortunately
6 months ago
Anonymous
>yes correct thank you for finally understanding the argument.
No, you misunderstand. Even if the campaign was entirely doubles it wouldn't teach you shit. The campaign doesn't remotely resemble competitive even with singles. The only way you'll feasibly learn competitive is to play competitive, not to mash A at shitty NPCs who never switch and have terrible movesets while you have item spam and and overleveling as a crutch.
>Hawlucha is an OU Unburden Sweeper with a good setter >Sneasler is stronger, faster, bulkier and has access to tera flying acrobatics/dire claw or can function with band/scarf instead
hmmmmmmmmmmmm
So Sneasler should be OU and Hawlucha should be UU. Why should Sneasler get banned just because Smogon is moronic and is trying to keep OU at some arbitrary power level?
So Landorus-I should be OU and Nidoking should be UU. Why should Landorus-I get banned just because Smogon is moronic and is trying to keep OU at some arbitrary power level?
SV introducing dozens of absurd face smashers that can 100-0 a team yet nowhere near as many reliable methods of stopping it. VGC doesn't seem to be faring any better
VGC is doing the same as normal and people are still using Pokemon like Scream Tail and Amoongus for defensive play, only Smogon players seem to have this weird expectation that you should be able to just do nothing to win as a viable option.
>only Smogon players seem to have this weird expectation that you should be able to just do nothing to win as a viable option.
It's called Stallgon for a reason.
>concurrent OU battles dipping below 100
no one wants to play OU any more, huh.
first the absolute shitshow that was gen 8 OU and now this, smogon is literally killing itself in real time.
>concurrent OU battles dipping below 100
no one wants to play OU any more, huh.
first the absolute shitshow that was gen 8 OU and now this, smogon is literally killing itself in real time.
Isn't it lower now because smogon kept crying about people ghosting each other in tourneys so Zarel, made so you can hide your match?
Smogon has trannies mentally ill enough to run bots that rebuild teams based on spectated games to create 'teamsheets' for them to use for various opponents in tournaments.
The best way to combat this is making alts that resemble other well-known players usernames to pollute their data.
>I'm bad at the game and can't pick safe leads based on team preview >I'd rather lose because of RNG on the 150th turn than the 5th turn >I'm bad at the game and let my opponent outskill me with Tera even though I can also use Tera
zzz
RNG is more impactful the less resources you have and the more offensive a metagame is. Take Scald as an example. You have a 30% chance to burn a Pokemon each use, meaning something has a decent chance of being crippled on your 3v3 team. Your 3v3 team also has less Pokemon to fall back on to switch into Scald.
Additionally, more turns that happen during a game, the RNG eventually conforms to an expected value. Using Scald once, you’ll find that it burning or not is pretty unexpected (assuming you can burn the target). Using Scald 12 times or so, you can expect it to have burned 3-4 Pokemon (assuming they can also be burned too).
This means that luck elements are far less impactful in longer games despite more chances of hax. You can simply plan for bad luck more in those longer games where you have better backbone.
>m-my broken pokemon doesn't have a fallback if it gets burned!
Yes. That's the point.
>the RNG eventually conforms to an expected value
Yes. It conforms to the expected value that you just lost after wasting 170 turns because your opponent got favorable RNG at the right time while you didn't.
>Kommo-o
Kommo-o only has a 3.9% usage in VGC. It’s currently used less than Glimmora, and what you’re describing is a contricting metagame.
>using pokemon in the pokemon game to counter the meta and getting high tournament results out of it is a constricting metagame >definitely not like my non-constricting metagame where I have to flat out arbitrarily make pokemon unusable because I was assblasted about not being able to adapt
In 2010 I lost in my first round at a VGC regional to evasion. This was back when it was single elimination, best of one, closed team sheet, no team preview. I had never had to deal with evasion because I always playing in the gen 4 ou walled garden. That was the moment I realized that maybe there was more to competitive than smogon.
Why even have OU? Just make UUbers ou. >B-but I can't use my shitmon against Kora-
Just Adapt. Maybe don't use shitmons. >B-b-but-
No, Banning at all is gay, this includes the "Ubers" tier when it should be the OU tier. Just Adapt
>Another day >Another /vp/ whines about Smogon without knowing a single thing about what they’re talking about
Sneasler is one of the most broken ass Pokemon that isn’t a 680 BST legendary and honestly should have gotten the axe earlier.
Imagine if you took Gen 8 Weavile, made it only 5 points slower (which ultimately doesn’t fricking matter), and made everything else about it better, then add bullshit on top of it.
Let’s pretend that Dire Claw does not exist for a moment and look at Sneasler’s many upgrades >Sneasler is a Fighting/Poison type now so it now resists Rock and namely Stealth Rock, so it can run HDBs as a luxury and not as a requirement >Additionally this typing turns Accelrock and Mach Punch into resisted moves, while Bullet Punch is neutral >You’re also immune to Toxic and remove Toxic Spikes too, meaning its harder to stall out and provides team support >The STAB combo has mono resistances, sure, but both Poison and Fighting compliment each other and you have coverage >With those STABs, the low accuracy Triple Axel is replaced by Close Combat, and additionally you have Gunk Shot for Fairies too >Your STABs are also coming off a 130 Atk as well >Not only do you give it 3 abilities vs Weavile’s 2, but they’re all good >The real kicker is fricking Unburden >Having 120 Spe, you are nearly impossible to outspeed >You need CS Regieleki or Barraskewda in Rain to outspeed Sneasler immediately >Ditto does not work because it won’t copy the Unburden boost >After a Sword Dance (really easy to do since Rillaboom has U-turn), you OHKO nearly everything and outspeed basically everything barring 2 Pokemon with specific conditions >Oh and because you’re using Terrain Seeds, your +1 Def makes you actually tanky and better at taking priority even more on top of tanking Earthquakes better
Sneasler on its own is absolutely absurd and adding Dire Claw made it so counterplay you could thing of could easily be negated by 50% chance to be statused.
How are you getting Sableye in? It’s frail as shit and can be put to sleep on switch in. What are you going to do when it suddenly becomes a Dark type with Tera and now completely immune to prankster? What are you gonna do when instead of Grassy Terrain, they instead use Psychic Terrain? What are you gonna do when Sneasler has a Sub? What are you gonna do when Will-o-wisp just misses?
Not every Pokemon requires you to use innaccurate moves to beat them. Not every Pokemon just instantly wins games if you don’t have an immediate answer for them.
>psychic terrain
Literally never happens, grassy terrains is the only one worth using rn
In the end both Sneasler and Gliscor are way less broken than Gholdengo and Kingambit, it's dumb as frick that the two of them still aren't banned
The only counterplay to Sneasler that could tank its hits from STABs and common coverage options while also managing to about Dire Claw’s secondary effects are Gliscor, Gholdengo, and Tera Ghost/Poison Garg. Any Red Card schemes just means you’re down 1 Pokemon the entire match becausw you otherwise would waste it on non-Sneaslers. As stated before, the ONLY 2 Pokemon that can outspeed Sneasler after Unburder are Regieleki and Barraskewda. And no, you can’t prankster destiny bond in this game and any status can be entirely avoid with Tera Dark.
If you didn’t want to immediately get steamrolled or risk fate that’s forced onto you by your opponent, you need one of those 3 defensivemons, Rain teams with Barraskewda, or Scarf on the 200 Spe legendary that was also banned. Any would-be checks besides ones listed can always be screwed over by 1/6 chance to sleep, or 1/6 chance to paralyze, or 1/6 chance to be poisoned.
>Any would-be checks besides ones listed can always be screwed over by 1/6 chance to sleep, or 1/6 chance to paralyze, or 1/6 chance to be poisoned.
bro, your fricking lum berry?
Run Lum on what Pokemon, dipshit? Ceruledge? It dies in 2 hit after Sword Dance and can’t KO back. Toxapex? Way too passive and Sneasler just used Dire Claw again without much fear. Even if they were effective, you basically have to keep them out of battle so their Berry isn’t wasted or removed.
Toxapex can't do anything in return, especially after losing Scald. Unburden Acrobatics will hurt Toxapex a lot and Toxapex can be disabled with Dire Claw shenanigans.
Just ban everything and only let everyone use a single Rattata with the same move set and held item, then it's perfectly balanced. That's what smogontrannies want right?
>perfectly balanced
Nope, now it all boils down to RNG due to speed ties and critical hits.
And THAT is the fundamental thing that will prevent Pokemon from EVER being a balanced competitive game.
smogon died with gen 5 and the excadrill ban.
that was the first time a regular ass pokemon was banned simply because it was "too heckin' strong" for the metagame, setting the precedent for all sorts of moronic bans.
simple as.
it doesn't matter that it was unbanned later, the precedent that a regular mon could be banned for no other reason than it being really good was already put in place.
no longer would the meta adapt to the game, rather the game would adapt to the meta. if something's really good, why allow anyone to build for it or allow other mons to rise to prominence when you can just ban it to maintain the status quo?
Garchomp was the first non-legendary (excluding Wobbuffet/Wynaut which were banned because of Shadow Tag) that was banned. Salamence was banned at the tail end of when Gen 4 was still the current gen.
it'll never be enough. pokemon is currently undergoing a hard transition to being purely hyper offense, and there simply isn't enough time between generations for smogon to progressively test and ban every threat. this is why quickbans are on such a rise, they're scrambling to cover everything but it's just not possible.
they need to just give up and accept that balance will no longer be viable, their insistence on preserving a dated playstyle is strangling the meta.
Smogon sisters literally banned an entire tiers worth of mons (with more to come) but refuse to make a new tier between ubers and OU. Its actually embarrassing how they cannot adapt
Because most mons banned from OU are dogshit on Ubers proper, the only format they can hope to be playable now? They are efectively banned proper and when you banned 20 of them you efectively banned what could have been a new playable OUBL.
The gap between Ubers and what omgn wants OU to be is just too big now.
>are efectively banned proper and when you banned 20 of them you efectively banned what could have been a new playable OUBL.
Why does there need to be OUBL
Just don't ban them and that is OU.
The Pokemon in OU now who can't cut it in OU without copious banning will drop to UU
That's the entire point of the system
Because finch and all the other mouthbreathers he surrounds himself with have a very specific idea of what they want the meta to be and it doesn't matter if half the dex has to be banned to achieve it.
>146 posts >not a single decent counter for Sneasler mentioned
Walking manifestations of the Dunning-Kruger effect all in this thread. No one here has an ELO above 1100. Absolutely embarassing
OU is more than a tier, it's the standard they want the Meta to be, and G9's gayfreak mon design and powercreep could not be further away from that desired meta.
There is also a need for more tiers as the mon count increases gen by gen, which they always did by pulling power down rather than up.
And for some reason there being something between OU and Ubers is unthinkable.
>OU is more than a tier, it's the standard they want the Meta to be
That's moronic
[...]
It's especially weird when this was literally the same game that had Weavile and Mamoswine, two incredibly solid Ice Types for different reasons that both had more than enough power to kill Garchomp and Salamence, especially when Garchomp famously lacks Dragon Dance, thus meaning it needs to be scarfed to actually outspeed Weavile.
They can't switch in on it and are less universally useful than it, I can see the justification in the context of Gen 4 even if I don't necessarily agree.
6 months ago
Anonymous
It is moronic and it is the truth. Banning 20 mons is more like defending an idea of a meta than a meta.
Ok explain why [...] wouldn't work. Why is banning 20-30 non box legendary mons better?
It wouldn’t work because Gen 9 is an except when it comes to banning things, not the rule. Besides your typical mascot legendary, the amount of Pokemon banned is not as large as people like to exaggerate. Most gens barely go beyond 5 new bans. Gen 9 is an except because they just decided to add in a bunch of extremely broken Pokemon like how Gen 5 brought in a bunch of broken Pokemon.
>nooooo you can't adapt!!
Is that why multiple Smogon players have made it to VGC Worlds on their first try? Some of us just don't enjoy wallowing in shit.
>are efectively banned proper and when you banned 20 of them you efectively banned what could have been a new playable OUBL.
Why does there need to be OUBL
Just don't ban them and that is OU.
The Pokemon in OU now who can't cut it in OU without copious banning will drop to UU
That's the entire point of the system
wouldn't work. Why is banning 20-30 non box legendary mons better?
The meta would just be Ubers-lite and not a lot of people are interested in playing that. The qualified OU playerbase by and large want a balanced metagame with multiple viable playstyles instead of Flutter Mane and Chien Pao everywhere.
That is just how Powercreep works. Its only going to get worse as Gamefreak continues to make better mons. Look how much stronger Maushold is compared to every previous early game rodent.
>The meta would just be Ubers-lite and not a lot of people are interested in playing that.
Sounds like they'd enjoy the new UU then.
This. Why does Lando and Chomp have to be OU? Why is it a shock that as Gamefreak makes better mons the previous one fall off. Instead of dealing with this smogon will just ban 40 mons instead
>The meta would just be Ubers-lite.
UU is OU-lite. That's not an argument at all to be made. >The qualified OU playerbase by and large want a balanced metagame with multiple viable playstyles.
Then why ban shit? Even if there were a couple moronic mons, people had workarounds. Experimentation without the help of an outside hand deciding what's "Too strong" helps innovation and multiple viable playstyles. That's why Gen 3 OU is by far the best metagame. >instead of Flutter Mane and Chien Pao everywhere.
OU ladder was filled with the same Hazard/Gliscor/Ghold cores. It was filled with Rillaboom/Sneasler cores. How is that any different from Ubers having Flutter Mane everywhere?
sounds like a problem solved by people playing UU instead of acting like they have to stick to OU when it's been barely balanced dogshit for multiple gens in a row
The beginning of the end was when they banned Garchomp back in gen IV. A meta that can't handle a Pokemon with a 4X weakness to ice ain't worth saving. No matter what they do, the meta will always center around a select few Pokemons.
was garchomp not simply banned due to the banning of sand veil, an ability that was a flagrant violation of evasion clause due to permanent sandstorm and the presence of ttar?
The most common argument was "every team must either have a Garchomp, have be a counter to Garchomp or be a counter to the counter to Garchomp". It was a gay fricking argument. Plenty of mons with sand veil weren't banned back then.
It's especially weird when this was literally the same game that had Weavile and Mamoswine, two incredibly solid Ice Types for different reasons that both had more than enough power to kill Garchomp and Salamence, especially when Garchomp famously lacks Dragon Dance, thus meaning it needs to be scarfed to actually outspeed Weavile.
>70 BP Hidden Power in Gen 4 >Nearly any mon faster than Chomp can revenge kill it if it's even slightly chipped
You're not even "forced" to run those two either if you don't want to, although they're very good in a lot of other usecases as well. >Muh Yache Berry
Without Life Orb, Garchomp doesn't have the breaking power to get through some of the better walls with only 1 SD forcing the Garchomp player to decide if they want slightly more safety against revenge kills or risk being status'd trying to break through a wall
This entire argument boils down to people who enjoy being spoonfed a metagame paradigm versus those who discover and work to shape the metagame they play in via organic developments.
>Adaptgays can't adapt to bans so they seethe "Noooo I will only adapt to the things I heckin like!!"
And once again they continue to have solutions that are barely "Adapting" anyway because most of it sounds like absolute memeshit that only works on that One pokemon and will do jack all for you on 90% of every other interaction. No just because you found one Hyper-specific answer does not suddenly make something "not broken".
Name one of your "Adaptations" that can do more than just counter one specific Matchup
I agree. I actually tried Gen9OU around the middle of the year shortly before and around the time of the first DLC drop, and I thought it actually wasn't really even that bad. Tera makes the game very fun.
But I despise smogontrannies banning things left and right because, as Verlisify says, they are casual manchildren who would rather remove what's preventing them from winning than adapt to it.
I quit soon after because why bother wasting your time playing Smogonshit anymore? They're total homosexuals who want to dictate how you have fun. I can't even use my first team I made for the tier anymore because one of its members got banned.
>Unironically thinking the dude that argued for Cut Venusaur being legit is smart or in anyway any better than Smogontrannies.
lmao, Imagine worshipping an unironic collar wearing furgay contrarian.
scanning the thread for the reasons why. can't see any real posts outside of shitposting. have to wait for false swipe gaming to do a 15 minute video >WHY SMOGON IS CLOSE TO EVERYTHING - THE SNEASLER THEOREM
If I just didn't see it please point me to the post. I want to understand and as a 62 year old man child with too much money and no family this autism is all I have.
Rillaboom got Grassy Glide back with the DLC and that lead to a surge in Rillaboom+Grassy Seed Sneasler teams. Unburden Sneasler is the best sweeper in the tier, it outspeeds everything and can set up easily once pivoted in. Revenge killing it is difficult because of it's speed and +1 Defense lets it survive a lot of priority that might otherwise kill it and it can even break through its defensive checks like Dondozo just by getting lucky with Dire Claw.
That's assuming the Dozo is already asleep, if they were awake and hadn't already started resttalking it can get haxxed before it has the chance to heal. Very situational admittedly but it can and has happened.
6 months ago
Anonymous
i mean... at that point, you're saying it's broken because of a few isolated instances of RNG aligning perfectly, which isn't realistic. to break dozo with sneedler, you'd need the following: instant sleep with dire claw, 3 turn sleep so that dozo doesn't rest before you kill it, sleep talk calling rest every time because if dozo gets to attack twice or curse once you just lose, and then you need damage rolls on top of that assuming grassy terrain is up and dozo is healing from it.
oh, and you need dozo to not tera into something that resists close combat or that's another instant loss condition.
it's just not realistic, might as well be complaining that tapu koko can parahax its way through whatever check with thunderbolt and fullpara.
What causes Pokemon of all game series to have so many people, some of whom are over 18, to be so adversed to bans and fan made formats?
Every scene has some fricking rules and bans on weapons, especially games that don’t recieve balance patches. Games will even ban shit like what stage you play on it a fighting game where the only difference is visual, to individual actions.
Frankly, Smogon is fricking tame compared to other fan made formats in other games. They ban only a tiny fraction of Fully Evolved Pokemon, and that’s including restricteds like Zacian and Mythicals like Magearna, which are typically banned anyways. And most bans are “you autolose unless you use this and win the speed tie or use hyper specific thing that loses to mostly everything else”. In contrast, Street Fighter will ban stages simply for blending in somewhat with a character.
it's because smogon is autistic but not in a way that makes the game more fun
quickbanning volcarona does not positively affect my experience as a ladder player, it's solely to stroke the egos of tourneygays
Pokemon fans are incredibly autistic and the idea of anyone telling them in anyway to play a game differently to how they want to, much less someone not wanting to play the game the way they want to, makes them very upset.
>nanannanan Smogon just hates wallbreakers and bans them
Hoopa-U, the definitive wallbreaker, is literally UU. Its been legal since pretty much every Gen besides Gen 6 too. Zapdos is still legal despite all the best walls besides Ting-Lu/Glowking being KO'd by its STABs and it has Weather Ball for Ting-Lu too. Manaphy still exists despite now having Take Heart which allows it to ignore Stall teams. Stall teams are basically a non-factor this gen in general.
Sneasler fricks over everything, not just le walls. It easily survives strong priority because of Grassy Seed, and then outspeeds literally everything besides 2 Pokemon with Barraskewda in Rain and Regieleki with a fricking Choice Scarf. That's only 2 Pokemon that can even outspeed Unburden Sneasler immediately, and one requires you to run a Rain team.
And what, you're crying about le "wallbreaker" (more like breaks nearly fricking everything) go banned, with your suggestions being "just use priority, one of the few things that can even go first vs Sneasler" and "just use unaware walls, who besides max bulk Skeledirge and Dondozo are 2HKO'd anyways lol".
Why did Gamefreak even buff Knock Off in the first place? Why turn a weak move but with great utility into a basically 100 power / accuracy nuke that also takes your item away? It's dumb, no wonder psychic types are consistently shit now
What a shitfest. However, the real breaking point will be reached when they start to ban booster mons >ban Valiant >now booster Wake, Moth and Tusk become even more threatening >ban them >now KG is unchecked >ban >now Ghold is unchecked >ban >now Dnite is unchecked
etc.
It'll be glorious
Too much shit is getting banned imo
Not enough innovation at smogon hq
because the game is not balanceable anymore
Just make OUBL already ffs. Ever since they made AG they admitted Ubers is a thing.
they cant stall properly
Just ban Tera already, FFS.
Solves nothing besides unbanning Regieleki and Volcarona, and maybe Espathra/Annihilape.
Everything else is seriously broken with or without Tera.
I agree but a lot of shit will still be broken without it
>Uhm, actually, changing your defensive typing on a whim is totally fair, balanced and fun to play against.
yes
try getting better at the game instead of living in the imaginary universe where only your opponent can do it and not you just so you have an excuse whenever you lose
Yes, because every pokémon can do it. And you lose your previous STAB in the process.
This. And so was the last one when they banned Dinamax for literally NO reason.
This, kek. They always melt when someone destroy stall.
Falseflagging kys smogoBlack person
>And you lose your previous STAB in the process.
>he doesn't know
>you lose your STAB in the process
Play the game, moron.
This one wasn't really a terra thing. It was unburden with defense seed and the grass israelite monkey getting back grassy glide. Dire claw was also an rng a win out of its ass if you brought a dedicated counter
Just ban gholdengo
Tera isn't the problem with Sneasler. It's just better Hawlucha with a move that can put you to sleep.
Yes, blame Tera goy!
tera had nothing to do with it, it was the grassy seed set that got it banned
fricking smogontrannies, or somethiung... i dont play pokemon am i doing this right?
yeah you got it
how about you try banning deez nuts from your mother's mouth
Why?
I believe it was due to Unburden + SD, which was made even better due to the Grassy Terrain/Seed stuff, and having Acrobatics. Surprisingly, I don’t think Dire Claw was really a deciding factor.
It technically wasn't because Sneasler on its own using Poison Jab/Gunk Shot would be broken anyways, but Dire Claw is still definitely bullshit no one wants to see.
jimothy GAMING what does this have to do with adv revival
Please buy my iron mugulis merch and I'll explain why in a video just for (you) anon.
I actually like that his videos come up in my recommended now. He's pretty damn informative
it countered gholdengo and stall, didn't it
No, Gholdengo was one of few things that could take it on and not fear Dire Claw's 1/6 chance of Sleep or CC.
you posted bait, didn’t you.
DING DING DING! They don't say it outwardly, but Sneasler COULD in fact ruin Gholdengo's day with a boosted Lash Out or Shadow Claw, and its common Tera options aside from Flying and Fairy left it highly susceptible to taking massive damage from Close Combat.
Everything wrong with this generation can be traced back to gholdengo or tera
>It could ruin the single Pokemon that can even switch into it safely with coverage that doesn’t require Tera
You say that like Smogon is trying to protect Gholdengo and not as Sneasler being a fricking broken piece of shit.
Finally.
I don't even care about dire claw,the unburded + sd is so moronicly strong and takes negative skill to win with
Good, it's ugly
OMGON BANS SNEEDLER AND KING’S ROCK
SERENE GRACE IS OKAY
Unironically Yes
Dude just play older gen OUs. Gen 2, Adv and Gen 4 are pretty peak with active player bases and they're not constantly going through moronic ban/unban decisions because the metas are more or less decided. They're also some of the more balanced metas.
I'm seconding this. The older I get, the more I'd rather just play Gen 3 and 4 metas. Even Randoms are pretty fun in those gens
>Gen 2
Doubtful even if it's not that bad.
Banning Snorlax makes Gen 2 OU unplayable just saying.
I never said the format or Gen 2 Snorlax was bad, but I doubt that it's suddenly seen a significant resurgence with zoomers like ADV has.
If anything Gen 2 OU is peak anti-zoomer.
Gen2OU appeals to the most autistic of Pokemon players, primarily.
*Some* zoomers do get into it like Susciety, who used to be a gen5ou player but has abandoned it in favor of GSC. But it remains the single least popular OU of all gen-OUs, playcount-wise.
Banning Snorlax just creates a cascade effect where other blatantly imbalanced Pokemon rise to prominence and make the format even worse. They would be banned if it was modern metagame, but as it's a legacy one (that was established AFTER the gen was already over to boot) no one wants to fricking bother. If you're playing GSC OU in the modern day you know exactly that you're signing up for anyways.
>They would be banned if it was modern metagame
>Tacit admission that modern smogon ban philosophy makes worse metagames
I’ve played ADV, I don’t think it’s as good as people are shilling it to be. Not enough options to always prevent a game from being a coinflip, or losing on lead matchup if you make a single wrong guess sometimes
the more pokemon smogon bans the better, it makes them look more and more moronic each time they do it and people will realize it's a complete clown format that isn't worth taking remotely seriously.
"Smogon" is not a format, moron. It's a website. Every gen is split into multiple usage-based formats, the point of which is allowing every Pokémon to function competently in some kind of environment. It lets you retain all the fundamentals you learn playing the game (single battles and the number of hits you need to KO) while also providing the novelty of making even shitmons feel good. VGC is the clown format. Just look at all the fricking Primal Groudon and Zacian in recent history. VGC forces you to play whatever dumb shit GameFreak cooked up that season unless you play 3v3 Singles, for which GameFreak doesn't balance. Has Smogon made mistakes? Yes. Has it gotten worse than ever this gen? Yes. Can you still use Smogon to play a billion other formats on Showdown? Yes.
> "Smogon" is not a format
Yes it is.
>i-it allows pokemon to function competently somewhere
Cool! How do I use Sneasler or Baxcalibur or Espathra now without them getting completely shat on by Koraidon and Miraidon and Zacian?
> It lets you retain all the fundamentals you learn playing the game
Not really. Fanfic is such a moronic arbitrary format that the strategies are barely the same.
> 3v3 Singles, for which GameFreak doesn't balance.
They do balance for it though.
>it is a format
No, you fricking idiot, Smogon cannot be a format because they host a variety of formats. Gen 5 RU is a format. Gen 4 UU is a format. Gen 8 National Dex OU is a format. All of them are within Smogon. There is no singular Smogon Ruleset apart from "6V6 with species and sleep clause," which is the same number of basic rules for an official format, except they switched Item Clause for Sleep Clause.
>Espathra, Bax, Sneasler
Mons banned to Uber are the only point I'll concede on because it's been especially bad the last two gens to the point that people want a tier between Ubers and OU. There will eventually be such a tier just like there are tons of other formats people play that depart from OU
>moronic and arbitrary
Ah yes, much more moronic than "you can have 6 pokemon on your team, but you can't use them all because we really wanted a sideboard mechanic to make it more like rock paper scissors." Singles is more similar to in-game than doubles and it's just not close. The proof is in strategies used and the fact that it's played in fricking singles.
>they do
Interesting. Tell me about how good a job they did balancing Greninja, Mega Gengar, Mega Kanga, Mega Mence, and more when they only have to nab 3 kills.
>No, you fricking idiot
Yes, you fricking idiot.
>All of them are within Smogon
Yes, the Smogon format.
>Mons banned to Uber are the only point I'll concede on
Glad you agree fanfic is garbage.
>Ah yes, much more moronic than "you can have 6 pokemon on your team, but you can't use them all because we really wanted a sideboard mechanic to make it more like rock paper scissors."
More like "you can have 6 pokemon on your team, but you can't use them all because we actually know how to design our game and realized allowing all 6 pokemon at once turns the game into a moronic defensively favored switchfest that makes a bunch of things moronicly unbalanced"
>Tell me about how good a job they did balancing Greninja, Mega Gengar, Mega Kanga, Mega Mence
Greninja has literally never been broken and they balanced Megas by removing them.
I see from the very first point you're not interested in a discussion because you've ignored what I said. I'm going to respond to you one last time and then you can go about your day.
>the smogon format
That does not exist. As I stated previously, Smogon is a website. The formats are the tiers. "Smogon formats" is a correct descriptor, "the Smogon format" is not. This is like the difference between saying "limited formats" and "the limited format" in MTG. It's not the same thing.
>glad you agree
I don't, you're being moronic because you feel the need to set yourself up to post "I accept your concession" or something. Tiers are a necessary evil so I can go play with shitmons. I don't get to play with the 3 mons you mentioned in OU, but I can go play any NU under the sun with like 100 shitmons that would never be worth using in VGC, Battle Spot, or OU if I wanted to actually win a game. That's a tradeoff I'll take. I prefer this to "the official format allows box legendaries this season."
>defensively favored switchfest
God forbid I have to play the game for 20 turns. Hyper offense exists too. 6 mons will by definition open up for options than 3 because then you're just rolling for good matchups with 3 good mons. Doubles are more complex, but what does it matter when the game is "balanced" in such a way that top cuts have metrics like 80% usage of a specific mon? Playing into an open field with less options means you're even more likely to default to a particular combination of mons. You're just adding another layer of matchups to the game. Considering the massive outcry over battle timers and how insane the past 2 gens have been, you are delusional if you think GameFreak knows how to balance their game. If they do, they're purposely not doing so anymore.
>balanced Megas by removing them
>Greninja was never broken
Greninja was fricking insane in battle spot. First Protean, then ash against 3 mons. As for megas, you have to know how dumb that sounds.
>That does not exist
It does exist. It's the clown 6v6 format where things are arbitrarily banned.
>Tiers are a necessary evil
That's weird. Why am I able to play the game just fine without them then?
>I can play with shitmons
That's weird. Why am I able to use shitmons without them then?
>God forbid I have to play the game for 20 turns
God forbid I play short games that aren't suddenly decided by RNG on the 112th turn.
>6 mons will by definition open up for options than 3 because then you're just rolling for good matchups with 3 good mons
That's the reason Team Preview still exists with 6 Pokemon. Have you tried being less shit at the game?
>Greninja was fricking insane in battle spot
No. It's good. Not broken. And it's barely even good now that they nerfed Protean. So clearly they do balance singles.
>then ash against 3 mons
Ash-Greninja has always been illegal in BSS you moron. It's treated like a Mythical Pokemon.
Maybe you should play the game instead of staring at the fanfic format.
I forgot that particular detail because I didn't play BSS in Gen 7. Gen 6 was moronic enough for me. But no, I think I'll play my many good formats (plural) and ignore the Gen 9 OU format (singular) instead of the two official formats (plural) that GameFreak is offering in SV.
>universal clauses don't exist
>the mission statement doesn't exist
They shouldn't exist. None of smogon should. They should learn how to play the game.
>species
I play dota when I’m not playing Pokemon. Given theres been trainers in the anime without a doubt that’ve battle Ash with more than one of the same pokemon. What’s the reason species clause is a part of the rules
It just seems kind of intuitive, I think. VGC uses a species clause too. Even 2 of the same Pokémon would make 1/3 of your team the same ugly model. Some mons would probably be really ridiculous like this, too, where you use 3 of the same sweeper and just brutally hammer your opponent with 3 things that beat their answers. It would be a much bigger pain in the ass to navigate how to play. For some people, that would add intrigue, but not to me. My question is Item Clause. For an item like Leftovers or Choice Scarf, it takes quite a lot of suspension of disbelief to think I couldn't just find 2 apples or buy 2 scarves
Item clause hurts stall. It will never happen in Smogon, but that's why it should.
Species clause is similar in that it promotes creativity with a team.
But it treating regional variants as the same species is dumb.
For a format that wants to stay so close to the game's 6v6 format, it's kinda dumb to not have item clause enabled. I'm pretty sure basically every battle facility through every games had it enabled. But yeah it'd pretty much never happen now with big stall around, unless stall becomes really fricking strong for some reason (very unlikely)
>it's been especially bad the last two gens to the point that people want a tier between Ubers and OU.
There doesn't need to be a tier between ubers and OU, Smogon needs to get their head out of their ass and realize some Pokemon like Garchomp are simply UU now. There is no reason 3 teams worth of normal fricking Pokemon should be banned because they're "too strong for OU" that's an entire fricking tier worth of Pokemon
OU is the baseline usage based tiering sir
Yeah and we have 18 (3 teams) of Pokemon that aren't even mythicals or restricted Pokemon just banned from it because "nuuuu they will be used too much they are too strong".
What is even the point of OU? Isn't it supposed to be where you use the most broken non-box legend bullshit, with bans for other Pokemon as a very rare exception? Now it's in some weird state where they're trying to force hazards to be a huge deal constantly.
It really comes down to what the players playing the tier want.
Like in Gen 2 OU Celebi is banned despite the fact that it isn't that strong because the people who still play that tier like the tier more without Celebi.
Unless it's an emergency ban everyone gets together and votes on what they want. If you disagree with a decision you can earn a vote on the issue just like everyone else.
Except when things are too overused apparently.
>Pokemon can be overused but they can't ACTUALLY be overused
With how many Pokemon are introduced with every new Gen, there should be 1-2 two more formats created.
>Cool! How do I use Sneasler or Baxcalibur or Espathra now without them getting completely shat on by Koraidon and Miraidon and Zacian?
UUbers
Not giving Dragonite Dual Wingbeat back was clear proof they balance for 3v3 singles.
Why is playing with Primal Groudon or Zacian a bad thing?
The problem is they ban shit like Volcarona and Sneasler which while good, are easily dealt with.
And they don't ban shit with +50% usage like Kingambit, LandoT in previous gens, and aside from Gliscor anything stall.
>LandoT in previous gens
Lando wasn't an issue back then.
remember gen 3 when the only non-restricted pokemon they banned were lati@s and wobbuffet?
those were good times.
then the smogontrannies sunk their dirty fangs and claws into it and now it's worse, yet somehow despite that STILL the best and most playable metagame
they nerfed Gen III hard and it still came out on top
why not just let all the banned shit back in and let the current ou shit drop down/make yet another tier
This fricking Gen is a mess
Only for smogtrannies.
Nah in general
I agree. I actually tried Gen9OU around the middle of the year shortly before and around the time of the first DLC drop, and I thought it actually wasn't really even that bad. Tera makes the game very fun.
But I despise smogontrannies banning things left and right because, as Verlisify says, they are casual manchildren who would rather remove what's preventing them from winning than adapt to it.
I quit soon after because why bother wasting your time playing Smogonshit anymore? They're total homosexuals who want to dictate how you have fun. I can't even use my first team I made for the tier anymore because one of its members got banned.
Sneasler is not banned from my bedroom tho
They really need to start taking better care of ubers already.
what was it? The combo of Unburden and Dire Claw with CC is pretty wild, but nothing other shit couldn't handle. Maybe people shouldn't rely so much on Kingambit and Gholdengo
It was the combo of Tera+Unburden which broke it. Tera Acrobatics+Stabs is pretty fricking hard to stop, your only hope is Dhengo + Unaware mons and the former hates the surprise coverage and the latter can be haxed.
Sneasler can learn shadow claw so gholdenego was not a sure fire counter.
And people said it would be Gholdengo. Who's next?
Paldiaper metagame is so embarrassing.
I stopped playing gen9OU. 20bans and still more to come?
They just cant seem to handle the powercreep.
For some reason a new tier between OU and Ubers is just unfathomable to omgon. Or just let the staples drop and make UU just previous gen OU.
Gen7 and Gen3 are seeing huge ressurgence.
Gen9 will be forgotten and dead soon.
Dlc2 will introduce more powercreep
Gen 7 isn't seeing any "huge resurgence", to my knowledge. It had already been the most popular non-current gen OU for many years until being dethroned by Gen 3 OU only last month.
I’m glad people are starting to realize Gen 3 had the best mechanics. Phys/spec split and Choice Scarf ruined the game.
Gen 4 OU would be more popular without homosexual bans like Heatran Trap and Fun Pass and no more LatiOPs
Smogon made sense back in gen 3 and 4 when there was no real official ranked ladder and when their bans weren't utterly moronic.
Now I have no clue why anyone bothers still playing it. Then again I doubt most of the people who even talk about Smogon positively actually play it, they just like to stare at the fricking tier lists and make memes about them so they can pretend they're knowledgeable about the game.
Smogon is the biggest single community for competitive Pokemon. Also most good players can only be found on showdown since no one is bothered to grind their own in game team. If you also play for prize money and tournaments you have to stick to the ban rule. However there if always the draft league where every mon is legal and you have to play on in game catridge but thats limited to a closed group.
>Smogon is the biggest single community for competitive Pokemon
No. The people who play the game are the biggest single community for competitive Pokemon. Japanese players alone don't even acknowledge Smogon's existence.
>Because there is no official singles format
Yes, there is. If you go into the PvP menu singles is literally right there next to doubles. Are you moronic?
I think he meant no good 6v6 format, which is what everyone wants singles to be
>Japanese players alone don't even acknowledge Smogon's existence.
That is false lol. A lot of Japanese play on showdown.
YOU DUMBFRICK moron, singles is not an official meta for nintendo. All their tournaments are doubles you shithead.
showdown != smogon
"good 6v6 format" is an oxymoron
the game has literally never been designed around 6v6 which is probably why fanfic has to do so many moronic bans.
That's what people want, that's what Smogon tries to offer
You fail to understand that Smogon is popular because people want it to be, they agree to play with those rules in spite of gamefreak preferences, it's a gentleman agreement between players when played on cart or simulator
It always puzzled me why people would b***h about Smogon if they play on cart, you have your own match-making for your awful game modes and doubles so it never made sense why would you be upset about people trying to organise games to their liking
>I don’t know why people still support it
Because there is no official singles format and the games don’t actually do anything ingame to prepare or teach players about doubles. Some people just prefer sticking to what they know. It’s not that surprising.
I always found that so fricking stupid. if doubles are the official competitive format why are doubles treated like a throwaway gimmick in single player? coliseum has the right idea, if they want comp to be accessible they should just make it the default battle style, with singles reserved for dramatic plot shit or whatever. it would also make smoggies seethe which is always funny
>why are doubles treated like a throwaway gimmick in single player?
It wont be anymore, dlc2 is all about doubles and tag team battles. GF is pushing more and more doubles only playwise.
that’s cool I guess. I don’t play any of these moronic nugen games so I’ll take your word for it. maybe they’ll finally have taken enough “steps in the right direction” for gen 10 to click into place and be actually good
Because the games are made for children but they want competitive to be more challenging
>the games are made for two distinct groups of people without any real opportunity for overlap
No wonder they’ve become so terrible.
Pokemon wants to be both a singleplayer rpg (leading to shit like rng, ivs and unbalanced mons/moves) and a competitive esport, when the two things are almost antithetical, gimping both single and multiplayer in the process
>I want to play doubles
>no I won't actually click the doubles button on the PvP menu I want to spend the entire game mindlessly sweeping npcs and pretend it's remotely similar to playing competitive doubles!
why are morons like this?
>no you can’t just expect the game to teach you these things through playing it, you need to watch my favorite poketubers explain it to you and use internet guides and prebuilt teams instead
the real moron here is you, holy shit pokehomosexuals are embarrassing
The toddler campaign doesn't teach you shit. If you want to learn just play the game. But you won't do that because you're a pussy who's too afraid of losing.
>That's what people want
Who's "people"? The tiny minority who plays fanfic in the first place while everyone else just stares at the tier updates every month?
>the campaign doesn’t teach you shit
yes correct thank you for finally understanding the argument. you’re a little slow huh? the fact you can’t understand why this is bad game design is what marks you as a moron unfortunately
>yes correct thank you for finally understanding the argument.
No, you misunderstand. Even if the campaign was entirely doubles it wouldn't teach you shit. The campaign doesn't remotely resemble competitive even with singles. The only way you'll feasibly learn competitive is to play competitive, not to mash A at shitty NPCs who never switch and have terrible movesets while you have item spam and and overleveling as a crutch.
>No. The people who play the game are the biggest single community for competitive Pokemon.
>playstheactualgamechad
>adapts and figures out the correct hole to put the circle
>smogontard
>bans the triangle and square holes so he doesn't get confused
>moron brainlet with sub 1200 elo thinks he knows what a counter is
Kek
It should be Ice / Poison.
Genuinely curious, what's VGC like this gen?
This really feels like the gen where GF did not think about singles at all.
not any better
Just as ass
FAKE OUT
PROTECT
FAKE OUT
PROTECT
DRAIN PUNCH
FAKE OUT
PROTECT
(The only thing that matters is getting the right combo of abilities out on the field)
>Entire thread is "SMOGON AMIRIGHT"
>No one actually discussing whether Sneasler was a problem mon or not
vintage /vp/
>wants /vp/ to unironically discuss the metageme
yeah bro gengar is the perfect counter to bloodmoon
They clearly abused Sneasler to get ELO.
>Hawlucha is an OU Unburden Sweeper with a good setter
>Sneasler is stronger, faster, bulkier and has access to tera flying acrobatics/dire claw or can function with band/scarf instead
hmmmmmmmmmmmm
So Sneasler should be OU and Hawlucha should be UU. Why should Sneasler get banned just because Smogon is moronic and is trying to keep OU at some arbitrary power level?
So Landorus-I should be OU and Nidoking should be UU. Why should Landorus-I get banned just because Smogon is moronic and is trying to keep OU at some arbitrary power level?
Unironically yes this gen. Landorus I is about as strong as Espathra Annihilape etc
Correct. I’m glad you’re starting to understand.
Yup
Direclaw sleep was the thing that soured it for a lot of people
Other than that is just spicy hawlucha
Except for that part where Sneasler has Base 130 attack instead of 92.
What the absolute frick is this meta???
SV introducing dozens of absurd face smashers that can 100-0 a team yet nowhere near as many reliable methods of stopping it. VGC doesn't seem to be faring any better
VGC is doing the same as normal and people are still using Pokemon like Scream Tail and Amoongus for defensive play, only Smogon players seem to have this weird expectation that you should be able to just do nothing to win as a viable option.
>only Smogon players seem to have this weird expectation that you should be able to just do nothing to win as a viable option.
It's called Stallgon for a reason.
fanficsisters…people are waking up…
delusional
>concurrent OU battles dipping below 100
no one wants to play OU any more, huh.
first the absolute shitshow that was gen 8 OU and now this, smogon is literally killing itself in real time.
Gen8 was fun, it's the most balance meta with the most variety imaginable.
>b-but i wanna use m-muh gimmicks
Kys
>knock off
>knock off
>grassy glide
>knock off
Isn't it lower now because smogon kept crying about people ghosting each other in tourneys so Zarel, made so you can hide your match?
>Not testing on an alt at all times
They deserve what they get.
Yeah, basically everyone after mid ladder doesn't allow spectators because they don't want their teams being stolen/scouted.
>don't want your team stolen
>play on ladder where, by the very rules of the game, your team is exposed to people
???
Smogon has trannies mentally ill enough to run bots that rebuild teams based on spectated games to create 'teamsheets' for them to use for various opponents in tournaments.
The best way to combat this is making alts that resemble other well-known players usernames to pollute their data.
Gen9 OU is the least current gen that is being played since gen6.
Actually a good ban because it means that people don't have to look at this living fursuit anymore.
GOODBYE MY BEST FRIEND
Have to drop dire claw for gunk shot now
VGChads:
>Oh, Ogerpon is getting used a lot? I’ll just start using Iron Defense Kommo-o then
Fanfictards:
>Oh, Ogerpon is getting used a lot? AIEEEEE BAN IT I CANT ADAPT
Incineroar
>Kommo-o
Kommo-o only has a 3.9% usage in VGC. It’s currently used less than Glimmora, and what you’re describing is a contricting metagame.
3v3 is the superior format
turns out a lot of pokemon become drastically less broken when they can't freely switch out into five other options
>starting matchup can already drastically impact who wins
>bad RNG becomes significantly more punishing
>Tera becomes even more overwhelming
Frick no
>I'm bad at the game and can't pick safe leads based on team preview
>I'd rather lose because of RNG on the 150th turn than the 5th turn
>I'm bad at the game and let my opponent outskill me with Tera even though I can also use Tera
zzz
RNG is more impactful the less resources you have and the more offensive a metagame is. Take Scald as an example. You have a 30% chance to burn a Pokemon each use, meaning something has a decent chance of being crippled on your 3v3 team. Your 3v3 team also has less Pokemon to fall back on to switch into Scald.
Additionally, more turns that happen during a game, the RNG eventually conforms to an expected value. Using Scald once, you’ll find that it burning or not is pretty unexpected (assuming you can burn the target). Using Scald 12 times or so, you can expect it to have burned 3-4 Pokemon (assuming they can also be burned too).
This means that luck elements are far less impactful in longer games despite more chances of hax. You can simply plan for bad luck more in those longer games where you have better backbone.
>m-my broken pokemon doesn't have a fallback if it gets burned!
Yes. That's the point.
>the RNG eventually conforms to an expected value
Yes. It conforms to the expected value that you just lost after wasting 170 turns because your opponent got favorable RNG at the right time while you didn't.
>using pokemon in the pokemon game to counter the meta and getting high tournament results out of it is a constricting metagame
>definitely not like my non-constricting metagame where I have to flat out arbitrarily make pokemon unusable because I was assblasted about not being able to adapt
>This is what they want you to face on the Ladder
At what point does playing the Smogon meta actually makes you worse at regular Pokemon?
What is "regular" Pokemon?
In 2010 I lost in my first round at a VGC regional to evasion. This was back when it was single elimination, best of one, closed team sheet, no team preview. I had never had to deal with evasion because I always playing in the gen 4 ou walled garden. That was the moment I realized that maybe there was more to competitive than smogon.
>pokemon that breaks stall pokemon gets banned
Shocking!
>venomoth used zen headbutt
>252+ Atk Venomoth Zen Headbutt vs. +1 0 HP / 4 Def Sneasler: 248-292 (82.3 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
What's your message to this Pokemon now?
I have protection and my parents aren't home.
It's still ugly as sin
same can be said for the entire gen9 dex
You should be Ice / Poison.
The frick is Kingambit still in the tier for?
Why even have OU? Just make UUbers ou.
>B-but I can't use my shitmon against Kora-
Just Adapt. Maybe don't use shitmons.
>B-b-but-
No, Banning at all is gay, this includes the "Ubers" tier when it should be the OU tier. Just Adapt
Is there a ladder for UUbers yet
Don't worry guys he will save us
Fricking gross
>Another day
>Another /vp/ whines about Smogon without knowing a single thing about what they’re talking about
Sneasler is one of the most broken ass Pokemon that isn’t a 680 BST legendary and honestly should have gotten the axe earlier.
Imagine if you took Gen 8 Weavile, made it only 5 points slower (which ultimately doesn’t fricking matter), and made everything else about it better, then add bullshit on top of it.
Let’s pretend that Dire Claw does not exist for a moment and look at Sneasler’s many upgrades
>Sneasler is a Fighting/Poison type now so it now resists Rock and namely Stealth Rock, so it can run HDBs as a luxury and not as a requirement
>Additionally this typing turns Accelrock and Mach Punch into resisted moves, while Bullet Punch is neutral
>You’re also immune to Toxic and remove Toxic Spikes too, meaning its harder to stall out and provides team support
>The STAB combo has mono resistances, sure, but both Poison and Fighting compliment each other and you have coverage
>With those STABs, the low accuracy Triple Axel is replaced by Close Combat, and additionally you have Gunk Shot for Fairies too
>Your STABs are also coming off a 130 Atk as well
>Not only do you give it 3 abilities vs Weavile’s 2, but they’re all good
>The real kicker is fricking Unburden
>Having 120 Spe, you are nearly impossible to outspeed
>You need CS Regieleki or Barraskewda in Rain to outspeed Sneasler immediately
>Ditto does not work because it won’t copy the Unburden boost
>After a Sword Dance (really easy to do since Rillaboom has U-turn), you OHKO nearly everything and outspeed basically everything barring 2 Pokemon with specific conditions
>Oh and because you’re using Terrain Seeds, your +1 Def makes you actually tanky and better at taking priority even more on top of tanking Earthquakes better
Sneasler on its own is absolutely absurd and adding Dire Claw made it so counterplay you could thing of could easily be negated by 50% chance to be statused.
okay that's cool and all but
>sableye used will-o-wisp
gg no re
haha just use focus sash wobuffet and nothing is broken
focus sash wobbuffet?
>beedrill used twineedle
gg no re
focus band, then :^)
How are you getting Sableye in? It’s frail as shit and can be put to sleep on switch in. What are you going to do when it suddenly becomes a Dark type with Tera and now completely immune to prankster? What are you gonna do when instead of Grassy Terrain, they instead use Psychic Terrain? What are you gonna do when Sneasler has a Sub? What are you gonna do when Will-o-wisp just misses?
>what if your move misses HUH WHAT THEN
and there you have it folks
lets just ban literally every pokemon because lol play rough can miss xd
Not every Pokemon requires you to use innaccurate moves to beat them. Not every Pokemon just instantly wins games if you don’t have an immediate answer for them.
>Not every Pokemon just instantly wins games if you don’t have an immediate answer for them
but enough about iron valiant
>psychic terrain
Literally never happens, grassy terrains is the only one worth using rn
In the end both Sneasler and Gliscor are way less broken than Gholdengo and Kingambit, it's dumb as frick that the two of them still aren't banned
>Gliscor
Gkisco basically hazards and pivots for free
The only counterplay to Sneasler that could tank its hits from STABs and common coverage options while also managing to about Dire Claw’s secondary effects are Gliscor, Gholdengo, and Tera Ghost/Poison Garg. Any Red Card schemes just means you’re down 1 Pokemon the entire match becausw you otherwise would waste it on non-Sneaslers. As stated before, the ONLY 2 Pokemon that can outspeed Sneasler after Unburder are Regieleki and Barraskewda. And no, you can’t prankster destiny bond in this game and any status can be entirely avoid with Tera Dark.
If you didn’t want to immediately get steamrolled or risk fate that’s forced onto you by your opponent, you need one of those 3 defensivemons, Rain teams with Barraskewda, or Scarf on the 200 Spe legendary that was also banned. Any would-be checks besides ones listed can always be screwed over by 1/6 chance to sleep, or 1/6 chance to paralyze, or 1/6 chance to be poisoned.
>Any would-be checks besides ones listed can always be screwed over by 1/6 chance to sleep, or 1/6 chance to paralyze, or 1/6 chance to be poisoned.
bro, your fricking lum berry?
Run Lum on what Pokemon, dipshit? Ceruledge? It dies in 2 hit after Sword Dance and can’t KO back. Toxapex? Way too passive and Sneasler just used Dire Claw again without much fear. Even if they were effective, you basically have to keep them out of battle so their Berry isn’t wasted or removed.
The fact that they ban any mons makes Smogon lose all legitimacy.
What will Smogon do now that the sub-1000 /vp/ coomers think they are not legitimate
Smogon are just a bunch of strategy hating genwunners.
And /vp/ is competitive shitter central, as seen by the embrassment that is this thread
Post elo
NTA, but I accept your concession of having no counter argument.
>146 posts
>not a single decent counter for Sneasler mentioned
Walking manifestations of the Dunning-Kruger effect all in this thread. No one here has an ELO above 1100. Absolutely embarassing
>go aegislash
It can't do very much to Toxapex.
Toxapex can't do anything in return, especially after losing Scald. Unburden Acrobatics will hurt Toxapex a lot and Toxapex can be disabled with Dire Claw shenanigans.
Rillaboom Sneedsler combo was fricking cheap as frick glad its gone.
Fanfic meta
Just ban everything and only let everyone use a single Rattata with the same move set and held item, then it's perfectly balanced. That's what smogontrannies want right?
Yeah, I love Gen1 14U.
>perfectly balanced
Nope, now it all boils down to RNG due to speed ties and critical hits.
And THAT is the fundamental thing that will prevent Pokemon from EVER being a balanced competitive game.
Metronome only battles are kino tho.
tfw /vp/ is so buck broken by smogon they actually think sneasler is balanced
just play ubers or vgc if you hate bans so much
smogon died with gen 5 and the excadrill ban.
that was the first time a regular ass pokemon was banned simply because it was "too heckin' strong" for the metagame, setting the precedent for all sorts of moronic bans.
simple as.
excadrill is not banned anymore, they just banned its ability instead
it doesn't matter that it was unbanned later, the precedent that a regular mon could be banned for no other reason than it being really good was already put in place.
no longer would the meta adapt to the game, rather the game would adapt to the meta. if something's really good, why allow anyone to build for it or allow other mons to rise to prominence when you can just ban it to maintain the status quo?
If were going to be like that, that was Gen 4 with the Dragons, not Excadrill.
Why are you so fixated on the Excadrill ban and not the gen 4 Salamence/Garchomp bans
Didn't those happen after Exca? It's not like old tiers stop evolving after a new gen happens.
Garchomp was the first non-legendary (excluding Wobbuffet/Wynaut which were banned because of Shadow Tag) that was banned. Salamence was banned at the tail end of when Gen 4 was still the current gen.
Made it to 1650 with a Rillaboom+Sneasler team. God it was so much fun.
How many bans will be enough.
When OU is only Goldengho
it'll never be enough. pokemon is currently undergoing a hard transition to being purely hyper offense, and there simply isn't enough time between generations for smogon to progressively test and ban every threat. this is why quickbans are on such a rise, they're scrambling to cover everything but it's just not possible.
they need to just give up and accept that balance will no longer be viable, their insistence on preserving a dated playstyle is strangling the meta.
Never by definition, since every ban just makes some other mon banworthy now.
They need to accept that new OU is not compatible with classic OU.
Until Garchomp is top tier. Inshallah
Would giving players 1 personal banned mon (as in, you won't be matched against players using that mon) be too much? It's not unheard of.
Smogon sisters literally banned an entire tiers worth of mons (with more to come) but refuse to make a new tier between ubers and OU. Its actually embarrassing how they cannot adapt
>with more to come
Who is next in the chopping block?
Gholdenego and Kingambit are on the chopping list.
They should have died first
Golden Joseph, King Gambit, and Iron Valiant are all ones I've heard complaints about
I don't get why people keep saying there needs to be a new tier when all that would happen without meddling is different mons are in OU
Because most mons banned from OU are dogshit on Ubers proper, the only format they can hope to be playable now? They are efectively banned proper and when you banned 20 of them you efectively banned what could have been a new playable OUBL.
The gap between Ubers and what omgn wants OU to be is just too big now.
>are efectively banned proper and when you banned 20 of them you efectively banned what could have been a new playable OUBL.
Why does there need to be OUBL
Just don't ban them and that is OU.
The Pokemon in OU now who can't cut it in OU without copious banning will drop to UU
That's the entire point of the system
Tell that to the council I guess? I'm just saying what's happening right now.
The entire issue is that they are banning shit and not letting the tiers self adapt because of their own arbitrary ideas of what OU should be.
Because finch and all the other mouthbreathers he surrounds himself with have a very specific idea of what they want the meta to be and it doesn't matter if half the dex has to be banned to achieve it.
>1800
Shame I didn't get to vooote on it :^)
OU is more than a tier, it's the standard they want the Meta to be, and G9's gayfreak mon design and powercreep could not be further away from that desired meta.
There is also a need for more tiers as the mon count increases gen by gen, which they always did by pulling power down rather than up.
And for some reason there being something between OU and Ubers is unthinkable.
>OU is more than a tier, it's the standard they want the Meta to be
That's moronic
They can't switch in on it and are less universally useful than it, I can see the justification in the context of Gen 4 even if I don't necessarily agree.
It is moronic and it is the truth. Banning 20 mons is more like defending an idea of a meta than a meta.
It wouldn’t work because Gen 9 is an except when it comes to banning things, not the rule. Besides your typical mascot legendary, the amount of Pokemon banned is not as large as people like to exaggerate. Most gens barely go beyond 5 new bans. Gen 9 is an except because they just decided to add in a bunch of extremely broken Pokemon like how Gen 5 brought in a bunch of broken Pokemon.
>Coming Soon: SuperUsed!
And that's a good thing.
>nooooo you can't adapt!!
Is that why multiple Smogon players have made it to VGC Worlds on their first try? Some of us just don't enjoy wallowing in shit.
Ok explain why
wouldn't work. Why is banning 20-30 non box legendary mons better?
The meta would just be Ubers-lite and not a lot of people are interested in playing that. The qualified OU playerbase by and large want a balanced metagame with multiple viable playstyles instead of Flutter Mane and Chien Pao everywhere.
>The meta would just be Ubers-lite and not a lot of people are interested in playing that.
Sounds like they'd enjoy the new UU then.
Leave Mane and Pao in Ubers then? They are seriously thinking about UUbers after all.
then why don't they just play old gens where such playstyles are actually viable without banning 80% of the viable mons?
That is just how Powercreep works. Its only going to get worse as Gamefreak continues to make better mons. Look how much stronger Maushold is compared to every previous early game rodent.
This. Why does Lando and Chomp have to be OU? Why is it a shock that as Gamefreak makes better mons the previous one fall off. Instead of dealing with this smogon will just ban 40 mons instead
>The meta would just be Ubers-lite.
UU is OU-lite. That's not an argument at all to be made.
>The qualified OU playerbase by and large want a balanced metagame with multiple viable playstyles.
Then why ban shit? Even if there were a couple moronic mons, people had workarounds. Experimentation without the help of an outside hand deciding what's "Too strong" helps innovation and multiple viable playstyles. That's why Gen 3 OU is by far the best metagame.
>instead of Flutter Mane and Chien Pao everywhere.
OU ladder was filled with the same Hazard/Gliscor/Ghold cores. It was filled with Rillaboom/Sneasler cores. How is that any different from Ubers having Flutter Mane everywhere?
>people had workarounds.
And if everyone keeps running the sane shit it keads to a stagnant meta. Especially with how broke offense is
sounds like a problem solved by people playing UU instead of acting like they have to stick to OU when it's been barely balanced dogshit for multiple gens in a row
UUbers has been being workshopped for the last couple months and even has a playable and decently populated ladder now, its a fun tier
>even has a playable and decently populated ladder now
no it doesn't
>175 replies
No one significant cares about your fanfic meta
>Ban Gliscor
>Now the thing that was kept in check because of Gliscor is now stupidly moronic.
Golly gee, another pointless fricking ban that wouldn't had happened if they simply didn't hap-hazardly ban shit.
Is she crying because zoro is gay?
The beginning of the end was when they banned Garchomp back in gen IV. A meta that can't handle a Pokemon with a 4X weakness to ice ain't worth saving. No matter what they do, the meta will always center around a select few Pokemons.
Checked and correct. Salamence as well.
was garchomp not simply banned due to the banning of sand veil, an ability that was a flagrant violation of evasion clause due to permanent sandstorm and the presence of ttar?
The most common argument was "every team must either have a Garchomp, have be a counter to Garchomp or be a counter to the counter to Garchomp". It was a gay fricking argument. Plenty of mons with sand veil weren't banned back then.
That was the rationale in Gen 5 during his brief period being banned before they just banned the ability. In Gen 4, it was banned for strength alone.
It's especially weird when this was literally the same game that had Weavile and Mamoswine, two incredibly solid Ice Types for different reasons that both had more than enough power to kill Garchomp and Salamence, especially when Garchomp famously lacks Dragon Dance, thus meaning it needs to be scarfed to actually outspeed Weavile.
>70 BP Hidden Power in Gen 4
>Nearly any mon faster than Chomp can revenge kill it if it's even slightly chipped
You're not even "forced" to run those two either if you don't want to, although they're very good in a lot of other usecases as well.
>Muh Yache Berry
Without Life Orb, Garchomp doesn't have the breaking power to get through some of the better walls with only 1 SD forcing the Garchomp player to decide if they want slightly more safety against revenge kills or risk being status'd trying to break through a wall
This entire argument boils down to people who enjoy being spoonfed a metagame paradigm versus those who discover and work to shape the metagame they play in via organic developments.
Some Pokemons are braindead. The whole point is to avoid broken shit but GF keeps making more broken shit every new gen.
Define what attributes make a pokemon skillful and not braindead.
>those who discover and work to shape the metagame they play in via organic developments
Never in Smogon's entire history has it ever stood for this.
I have more trouble killing this dog than anything.
Why was the crowned form banned but not the normal one
I found the crowned form to be easier to deal with
>I keep losing to these frickers...
>Am I just bad at this?
>... No, it's the Pokemon's fault
This is a ploy to get great tusk to stop running ice spinner
>Adaptgays can't adapt to bans so they seethe "Noooo I will only adapt to the things I heckin like!!"
And once again they continue to have solutions that are barely "Adapting" anyway because most of it sounds like absolute memeshit that only works on that One pokemon and will do jack all for you on 90% of every other interaction. No just because you found one Hyper-specific answer does not suddenly make something "not broken".
>Nooooooo your answer doesn't count even when it does have usecases outside of this one
Shalom
Name one of your "Adaptations" that can do more than just counter one specific Matchup
>Unironically thinking the dude that argued for Cut Venusaur being legit is smart or in anyway any better than Smogontrannies.
lmao, Imagine worshipping an unironic collar wearing furgay contrarian.
if you care so much about shit from ages ago how about condemning smogon doxxing wolfe flick and the site's nazi past?
Verlisify is 10x more intelligent than any smogonhomosexual
His takes are dogshit even for VGC.
>Ban one mon and suddenly another becomes too much to handle.
>Do this repeatedly until Gen 9 OU mirrors Gen 4 OU
LMAO have fun banning 30 mons in Gen 10 just so Lando, Heatran and Chomp don't become UUBL
scanning the thread for the reasons why. can't see any real posts outside of shitposting. have to wait for false swipe gaming to do a 15 minute video
>WHY SMOGON IS CLOSE TO EVERYTHING - THE SNEASLER THEOREM
If I just didn't see it please point me to the post. I want to understand and as a 62 year old man child with too much money and no family this autism is all I have.
Rillaboom got Grassy Glide back with the DLC and that lead to a surge in Rillaboom+Grassy Seed Sneasler teams. Unburden Sneasler is the best sweeper in the tier, it outspeeds everything and can set up easily once pivoted in. Revenge killing it is difficult because of it's speed and +1 Defense lets it survive a lot of priority that might otherwise kill it and it can even break through its defensive checks like Dondozo just by getting lucky with Dire Claw.
The crazy thing about Sneasler is that it barely needed any investment to outspeed the entire -scarfed- metagame after Unburden.
Yeah, and with a +Attack Nature with some EVs invested in bulk it becomes even stronger and harder to kill.
holy based situation explainer. I'd give you two (You)s if we had the technology.
how exactly does sneasler hax through dondozo when sleep talk is standard?
They can't call rest and go back to full if Dire Claw sleeps them first.
but... that's not how it works? dondozo goes second, so it's still sleeping when sneasler attacks and can rest as it wakes up.
That's assuming the Dozo is already asleep, if they were awake and hadn't already started resttalking it can get haxxed before it has the chance to heal. Very situational admittedly but it can and has happened.
i mean... at that point, you're saying it's broken because of a few isolated instances of RNG aligning perfectly, which isn't realistic. to break dozo with sneedler, you'd need the following: instant sleep with dire claw, 3 turn sleep so that dozo doesn't rest before you kill it, sleep talk calling rest every time because if dozo gets to attack twice or curse once you just lose, and then you need damage rolls on top of that assuming grassy terrain is up and dozo is healing from it.
oh, and you need dozo to not tera into something that resists close combat or that's another instant loss condition.
it's just not realistic, might as well be complaining that tapu koko can parahax its way through whatever check with thunderbolt and fullpara.
How long until smogon cucks concede that 1 held item clause is superior?
nooooooooooo not my hecking leftoverinos in my 20 year old format it would ruin it!
How long until smogon cucks concede that 0 legendary clause is superior?
people are going to look at the tier update next month and go
>HAHA LOOK LANDO IS STILL OU!
as if it fricking means anything anymore.
>The year is 2069, the only pokemon legal in OU are Kingambit, Gholdengo, Bisharp, Pawniard, and every untiered mon.
>Often uses flying tera for acrobatics and dodging EQ
>>>tera didn't matter for sneasler
lol?
Bring her back
>serving 10 consecutive life sentences for rape
she's never coming back bro you need to let go
>Another pokemon CHADkoal checks gets banned
Smogon hates sun
NOOOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T HAVE AN ACTUAL CHECK TO LONG SNEASEL THAT'S VIABLE ELSEWHERE IT HURTS THE NARRATIVE
What causes Pokemon of all game series to have so many people, some of whom are over 18, to be so adversed to bans and fan made formats?
Every scene has some fricking rules and bans on weapons, especially games that don’t recieve balance patches. Games will even ban shit like what stage you play on it a fighting game where the only difference is visual, to individual actions.
Frankly, Smogon is fricking tame compared to other fan made formats in other games. They ban only a tiny fraction of Fully Evolved Pokemon, and that’s including restricteds like Zacian and Mythicals like Magearna, which are typically banned anyways. And most bans are “you autolose unless you use this and win the speed tie or use hyper specific thing that loses to mostly everything else”. In contrast, Street Fighter will ban stages simply for blending in somewhat with a character.
it's because smogon is autistic but not in a way that makes the game more fun
quickbanning volcarona does not positively affect my experience as a ladder player, it's solely to stroke the egos of tourneygays
Pokemon fans are incredibly autistic and the idea of anyone telling them in anyway to play a game differently to how they want to, much less someone not wanting to play the game the way they want to, makes them very upset.
Sneasler loses to priority checks and unaware mons. I swear they just hate wallbreakers.
>beat by priority
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. +1 0 HP / 4 Def Sneasler: 220-261 (73 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Sneasler Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tera Normal Dragonite: 446-528 (138 - 163.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
>nanannanan Smogon just hates wallbreakers and bans them
Hoopa-U, the definitive wallbreaker, is literally UU. Its been legal since pretty much every Gen besides Gen 6 too. Zapdos is still legal despite all the best walls besides Ting-Lu/Glowking being KO'd by its STABs and it has Weather Ball for Ting-Lu too. Manaphy still exists despite now having Take Heart which allows it to ignore Stall teams. Stall teams are basically a non-factor this gen in general.
Sneasler fricks over everything, not just le walls. It easily survives strong priority because of Grassy Seed, and then outspeeds literally everything besides 2 Pokemon with Barraskewda in Rain and Regieleki with a fricking Choice Scarf. That's only 2 Pokemon that can even outspeed Unburden Sneasler immediately, and one requires you to run a Rain team.
And what, you're crying about le "wallbreaker" (more like breaks nearly fricking everything) go banned, with your suggestions being "just use priority, one of the few things that can even go first vs Sneasler" and "just use unaware walls, who besides max bulk Skeledirge and Dondozo are 2HKO'd anyways lol".
Did Sneasler get something post home? I was pretty high ladder but stopped before home came out and Sneasler was never really a big problem.
It got Rillaboom
Rillaboom came with Home, it's just that people didn't realized the combo right away
It got Lash Out, Toxic, Spite and vacuum wave. truly broken now
It finally got the spotlight after avoiding the ban hammer for so long, and also Rillaboom was buffed which helped.
Source?
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sneasler-is-banned-from-sv-ou.3731467/
>introduce item clause
>ban knock off
here i fixed your meta game
Why did Gamefreak even buff Knock Off in the first place? Why turn a weak move but with great utility into a basically 100 power / accuracy nuke that also takes your item away? It's dumb, no wonder psychic types are consistently shit now
At this point all the banned mons together could form a format of their own.
He truly has become the Sneedler
Why???
>never a problem
>barely any usage
>frail as frick
This reeks of Finch getting 6-0'd by one.
Same as Volcarona.
What a shitfest. However, the real breaking point will be reached when they start to ban booster mons
>ban Valiant
>now booster Wake, Moth and Tusk become even more threatening
>ban them
>now KG is unchecked
>ban
>now Ghold is unchecked
>ban
>now Dnite is unchecked
etc.
It'll be glorious