Smogon banned all these pokemon with 600 or less BST. What is wrong with them
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Smogon banned all these pokemon with 600 or less BST. What is wrong with them
Smogon banned all these pokemon with 600 or less BST. What is wrong with them
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>Dugtrio
>Orthworm
Wat
>Dugtrio
Trapping clause
>Orthworm
Shed tail cheesing
>"c-competitive isn't centered entirely around switching out pokemon non-stop, I swear!"
>"NNNOOOO YOU CAN'T STOP ME FROM SWITCHING OUT POKEMON BAN BAN BAN BAN BAN BAN BAN BAN"
it be just like this
it is but smogon autists make it 10x worse
Literally the opposite and switching is what makes the game fun, you fricking moron.
>doesn't even like playing the game he plays
Yes, people who like trapping abilities don’t actually like Pokemon.
>Trapping clause
Sounds gay as frick
>Trapping clause
Why do they want to play switching simulator?
switching is fun
BST is the least relevant thing about a Pokemon.
I feel like there should never be more than 6 Pokemon/moves (excluding box legends/mythicals) banned from any tier.
I'm starting to feel competitive pokemon is a meme
you're just realizing this? Pokemon's competitive has always been a unbalanced farce with only a handful of Pokemon beiing worth a damn. And from Gen 6 onward has been a nothing but a way to shill CHARIZARD its its overpowered bullshit shill forms.
>from Gen 6 onward has been a nothing but a way to shill CHARIZARD
Charizard is completely unused in any competitive format.
>Charizard is completely unused in any competitive format
also completely false
because it is
>also completely false
Right, a whopping 0.11% of players use it
https://www.pikalytics.com/pokedex/gen9vgc2023regulatione/charizard
You said "any competitive format" moron
https://www.pikalytics.com/pokedex/homebss/charizard
Not a top tier Pokemon either
do you not know what "any competitive meta" means?
VGC and BSS are the only real competitive metas.
If you're referring to Smogon, Charizard is useless there too.
If you're referring to old metas from previous games, the ones where Charizard was relevant are completely dead.
>CHARIZARD is completely unused in any competitive for- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVmit8rVVmA
nah completely true
completely false
see Gen 1 meta and Gen 3 meta, for examples
>CHARIZARD is completely unused in any competitive for-
It is. The last instance of usage in your video is from Sword and Shield, games that came out almost four years ago.
Mega Charizard X
Mega Charizard Y
Gigantamax Charizard
Gen 3 OU
>Mega Charizard X
>Mega Charizard Y
>Gigantamax Charizard
As I said, completely unused. These variants are specifically present in the metagames that people don't play anymore.
>Gen 3 OU
Where he's a C tier Pokemon at best.
>Pokemon's competitive has always been a unbalanced farce with only a handful of Pokemon beiing worth a damn
completely false but go on
compgays are literally the worst posters on this board. I can see the angry tears behind their smug mask every time they make a condescending post related to their "hobby".
>smug
Only people with an inferiority complex care about that
>fat moron with shit running down their leg and dried boogers on their upper lip tells you competitive pokemon is the best thing ever with a shit eating grin on their face
>recoil in disgust
>"durrr u just feel inferior to me!"
You are very imaginative, anon.
Does the evil fat man appear after you take your pills too?
nope, they only show up when I make a post that bullseyes their shitty moba-tier hobby. otherwise I am lucky enough to never see them leave the putrid holes they hide in while trying to figure out what meta team they should copy.
I like playing comp but I would never say pokemon comp is a hobby. The very idea is fricking embarrassing. I Unironically rather play Overwatch than suffer through garbage gimmicks and constant power creep.
>I Unironically rather play Overwatch
Get well soon.
>mfw just realized what I typed
I overexaggerated a bit but you get the idea.
it is if your only context is /vp/ because nobody plays the games
Smogon can't handle the fact that Gen 9's Singles Meta is strictly geared towards Hyper Offense, so anything that threatens stall has to leave.
Expect Tera as a whole to be banned after DLC2 releases and it's revealed the 19th type doesn't require any special hold items, which would be in line with the fact there's placeholder data in the Medali Gym for using something to change a Pokemon's Tera Type to the 19th.
and in my fanfic steven stone fricked wallace in the ass but it doesn't impact the actual games
who gives a shit
>moron uses "competitive meta" synonymously with "current gen"
opinions discarded, discussion over
>b-but everyone uses Charizard in these dead games!
Thanks for your concession.
Gen 3 OU Singles is still actively played to this day by quite a number of dedicated players, and Charizard is a great alternative choice for your more versatile team slots who has a lot of set diversity and can deal with quite a few meta-defining staples if you play your cards right.
>Charizard is a great alternative choice
In other words it's a greatly outclassed Pokemon.
truth
Confession denied.
Yeah VGC.
Real fun shit.
The only stinker there is Urshifu. Without it you have a pretty interesting meta.
There's nothing interesting about seeing flutter mane Tera Water Iron Hands, Tera Fairy Heatran or PaoNite on every team. The Meta is fricking awful and it's even worse to watch cause it's mostly mirror matches.
>waaah stop using the best representatives for each role
What's the point of joining or watching a tournament if you want subpar shit?
>Spoken like a true compgay.
Not saying you're wrong considering this is a tournament but the point still stands that the meta is stale and boring. The image posted was from Reg E and it basically went back to a Reg D format. I've seen Iron hands tera water and Rillaboom Tera Fire for several months now. Shit is garbage.
Take out Lando, Urshitfu and Rillahomie and it's somewhat decent
>legendaries
>pseudos
>hyper minmaxed paradox forms
>rest are "banned" in the sense that they can't use one specific move/ability
Lots of disingenuous examples there, OP
biting bait
>orthworm/cyclizar
shed tail, aka a switchout move that cuts a bit of HP to setup a substitute for whatever you bring in without costing the replacement's HP
>dugtrio
arena trap is fricking obnoxious
>everything else
either has moody which is obnoxious to fight against and turns battles into glorified gambling/dice rolling, or has incredibly good stat distribution and good moves, even by OU standards, and usually with some good way to abuse terastal
either that or it just has a signature move that game freak forgot to actually check if it'd be balanced outside of the main story (which is piss easy anyways) or official 4v4 doubles battles
>I don't like playing against it so it should be banned
average smogonBlack person mindset
>NOOO NOOOO NOOOOOOOOoOOoOOOO *shits pants* YOU CAN'T BAN MY BUSTED BULLSHIT
Cry about it, kiddie
We're here for a game of skill
>game of skill
running a stall team to reach the top ladder isn't skill
why espathra
Speed Boost + Calm Mind + Stored Power + Tera Blast. The first three make it outspeed most anything and hit hard as frick, the fourth checks common counters. Commonly paired with Shed Tail Orthworm.
Flutter Mane and Regieleki are NASTY, but the rest were not OP, I agree.
>Volcarona
>Baxcalibur
>Glalie
>Espathra
Explain
Volcarona was considered too strong because it could change its typing with tera
Baxcalibur was considered too strong because it could set up behind an aurora veil made by ninetales
Glalie is legal but it can't run moody
Espathra was banned because of the stored power/calm mind/protect/tera blast fairy/fire set
>Volcarona was considered too strong because it could change its typing with tera
But every pokemon this gen can do that
Yes, but just like Dynamax and Z-Moves, it's a gimmick that makes strong Pokemon get even stronger, and allows Pokemon that are held back by bad typings to shed off their weaknesses in favor of something better while keeping their original STABs all the while.
Is Shedinja banned?
It was one of the first bans in Gen 9's National Dex format, in fact.
He's one of my favourites, it's funny to know he was one of the first "oh frick" moments of tera's introduction.
>volc
Banned so it wouldn't be in the format for Smogon's WCOP tournament, though they deny this
>bax
Already good mon deemed over the top with support from alolan ninetales
>glalie
Moody. They unmanned it in gen 8, it tore up OU for a month then moody got banned again.
>Espartha
Combo of knowing speed boost, stored power and tera.
Glalie is because of Moody, everything else is because of tera
IIRC Espathra is less because of Tera and more because Stored Power+Speed Boost+Calm Mind for fast snowballing.
It still greatly benefits from tera, might be what pushed it over the edge
Tera Blast
Ninetales-A being released
Moody
First Pokemon to have Speed Boost + Stored Power
what's wrong with Moody?
luck based and too easy to just keep getting stat boosts
The whole game is luck based, morons
Sounds like an IQ issue
>Game has only some RNG involved
>”THE WHOLE GAME IS LUCKBASED!!”
Shut the frick up, moron.
Just because 10% of the time Flamethrower can burn you doesn’t mean the entire game is luckbased.
RNG is literally there in the damage calculation formula. Unless you're using hyper-specific moves like Dragon Rage or Night Shade (both of which are dogshit), you're basically rolling dice in terms of how much damage you deal.
Damage rolls rarely also matter. They only matter if you’re barely doing 50% or barely doing 33%, or if a move is barely over KO range after chip. Rarely has a damage roll definitely decided a game or mattered.
Even poker is very obviously a skill based game due to the same people ranking in the professional scene over and over, and you can't have much more of an rng based game design than poker.
Comp pokemon is cringe as hell though.
yeah and Smogon usually tries to limit as much of the RNG as possible, MONGOLOID
then why aren't scald and stone edge banned?
Scald was originally going to be banned but not enough people saw first turn burns as big enough of an issue.
Stone Edge isn’t banned because its negative luck. You use Stone Edge, it’s on you for missing.
>you use Stone Edge, it’s on you for missing
that's an argument in favor of not banning ohko moves
Not at all?
why are OHKO moves banned? they have 30% accuracy and have a 70% percent chance of missing. accuracy buffs do not increase the hit chance more than 30%. they're countered by focus sash, sturdy, and flying types (for fissure), and ghost types (for horn drill). it's only banned because it counters stall
It's because they are too impactful for how random they are and nobody wants to play a game where entire games are decided by ohko move rng.
>But scald is high impact variance too
If scald had a 30% chance of instantly killing a pokemon it would get banned the instant it dropped.
this
was a long way of saying OHKO are balanced by their low accuracy. It's your fault if you give the opponent an opportunity to spam fissures and you shouldn't complain if you miss 5 of them
>dondozo spams fissure
>one shots your counter
>lose game
This is why it's banned, dumbass
why are you letting it spam fissure? why are you not attacking it?
Name literally anything that can one shot dondozo in OU
This is assuming it can pop tera dragon at any point
Dondozo has better moves to run that are more effective and reliable. the likelihood of it running fissure and hitting it are slim. where do you see fissure on the battle spot and VGC?
Literally every dondozo in BSS uses fissure, moron
not to mention the previous counters to fissure I listed
Literally every Dondozo runs Fissure in BSS because of how fricking free it is on switches you mongoloid. Do you even play the game at all or are you some slack-jawed simpleton that's been buttblasted by Smogon for stupid shit you can't even educate yourself on basic metagame shit?
stop switching and actually damage it then. that's why you keep losing to it
So am I supposed to switch in my OHKO counter or just hit it until it rests?
Also I don't fricking play BSS at all you rere, but I at least took the time to actually have an idea on how shit functions in it before opening my mouth so stupid shit won't fall out of it unlike you.
if every dondozo is running fissure it should be easy enough to predict and counter, right?
Troll post
Make it out of Pokeball tier before replying anymore to me, thanks.
>Durr just use Damp Quagsire! That’s definitely not a shitmon or anything!
No he doesn't lol, the reason dozo fell off in OU is because he's passive as shit. If he got a chance at killing one of your pokemon every time he came in he would be fricking broken.
when dondozo is spamming fissure and misses the opponent is attacking it. you're risking hp and the chance to ko the opponent risk free when you fish for it
>just chip the bozo, bro!!!
Yeah this'll only take 10 turns!
use super effective moves
>Rotom uses Thunderbolt
>fatass goes tera dragon and uses body press
>swap into another mon and die to fissure
Great plan
why are you using rotom instead of regieleki or a strong special wallbreaker? the rotom didn't get to tera change into ghost?
You're not risking shit when dozo can take 20 hits from your pokemon and can rest up any damage you fricking moron.
homie it's a fricking Dondozo? Are you stupid? Do you not know what a Dondozo is? Do you have a brain in your fricking skull that allows you to comprehend how fricking bulky a Dondozo is?
Thing is that BSS is 3v3 so its more worth it to run OHKO moves there than 6v6 where your oppoment has far more Pokemon and potential to run something like a Flying type. It’s impossible to sweep with Fissure in a realistic scenario and if you wanted to sweep with Dondozo you can always use the Curse set.
There is then Fissure’s 8 PP, making it much easier to stall out in 6v6 than BSS.
With Earthquake, you have a move that’s far more reliable and doesn’t leave you dry for spamming it as much, which you need to do with Fissure.
Lol if you manage to run out of fissure pp you already got far more value out of dozo than you would've gotten in any other way.
If you spam Fissure 8 times, assuming 0 counterplay, you get 2, which is only a 10% chance of happening.
Then factor in wasted PP against Flying types, Levitate users, Substitute, Protect, etc. and the chances of getting more than 2 kills after using the move 8 times is even lower.
Also consider that gen 9 is OHKO anyways.
Honestly with all the bullshit Smogon lets by with OHKO moves, they should be Unbanned. Sneasler is still somehow not banned despite having Dire Claw, as well as shit like Jirachi and Togekiss being ignored.
You need something as fricking bulky as Ting-Lu in order for OHKO moves to be viable, and if OHKO moves first appeared today they certainly would take long ass time to be banned.
>Sneedler out of fricking nowhere
Shut up and take a nap, homosexual
>Dire Claw
>100% chance to still do damage against non-Steel types if its secondary effect doesn’t proc
>Has Fighting STAB for most Steel types
>Only answers are Gliscor, Gholdengo, and Tera Ghost/Poison Garg
>Has 50% chance to status you if you aren’t immune to poison or paralysis, which can cripple any counter
>16% chance to put something to sleep, giving you a free turn to sword dance up again
>Even with answers like Gliscor and Gholdengo, you can still get royally fricked by RNG and swept instantly
vs
>Fissure Ting-Lu
>Literally any Flying type hard cucks it
>Even if you don’t have a flying type or levitate user, even Tera Flying, you can still cuck it with substitute
>Even if you lack all that shit, it’s still only 30% chance to kill and 70% chance to do nothing, on a Pokemon that lacks reliable recovery and could be doing something more useful
>Earthquake is fine too in Singles as an option. It takes 4 turns for Fissure to have a decent chance of KOing something anyways when you could have Earthquaked 3 times or used Ruination + Earthquake
>You would be lucky to get more than 2KOs before Ting-Lu dies
>Ting-Lu is also the best OHKO move user in the game too
>What’s wrong with luck based instant win mechanics
If Moody user gets boost to Speed or the right defense early on, they win. They spam Protect and Sub until they have enough boosts to be unstoppable.
The ironic thing is that this is exactly the shit /bp/ b***hes about constantly. You stall the game with protect and sub, and the counterplay involved is using stallmons like Haze Toxapex or Unaware Skeledirge.
Moody also breaks the evasion clause.
Moody stopped raising evasion, which is actually why Smogon unbanned it for a bit, before realizing how stupid it is.
Arena trap and shadow tag should be unbanned, everyone and their moms has access to u-turn/flip turn so who cares
why do smogon ban the fun pokemon to play with? is it really about balance or them being joyless gays?
Why is Glalie banned?
it is not banned, but I can't have moody as its ability
Funny how they have trapping clause but don't have a regenerator clause because everyone loves playing a team with 3 regenerators in them
>Landorus finally got banned
>high BST means your automatically good
>BST cant be distributed in useless ways
They need to stop being fricking pussies and just fricking ban Tera
Banning your tera boogeyman isn't fixing the main problem moron. At the end of the day all this shit, other than the mons abusing Tera Blast obviously, still get sent to Ubers without tera. Maybe Ogerpon stays but obviously that is also an exception considering she abuses the mechanic in a way no other Pokemon can.
It fixes the biggest problem in the entire game
Does it really? Isn't Tera basically mostly a issue in OU and other Tiers handled it relatively fine? I swear i seen that thrown around (usually with the mention that other then Regieleki and Volcarona the other bans so far would still have happened with or without Tera) when people argued about the the "Tera Preview/Tera Blast Ban/Tera Ban" thing but im not into Smogon.
Do bst absolutists not realize that minmaxing is a thing? A special attacker with 550 bst and 50 attack effectively has the exact same bst as one with 600 but 100 attack
I thought bugs were weak?
>scorvillian
I thought he was bad what happened?
Hidden ability
>Why completely ban?
They aren't "completely banned", they're banned from OU. You can still use them in ubers.
>You can still use them in ubers.
But they aren't as good competitively as the legendaries. If I get it right, you guys want the tiers to just be more consistent? Sorry if I'm talking on a purely theoretical level.
>But they aren't as good competitively as the legendaries
Many are.
Flutter mane is one of the best Pokemon in ubers.
Kingambit ranks extremely high despite not even being banned from OU.
See https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-ubers-viability-rankings-post-home.3724082/
Some of them are destined to become low tier Pokemon once they're banned to ubers, but having many Pokemon that see little use is better than having few Pokemon that are in every single team and constitute an auto-win button.
>you guys want the tiers to just be more consistent?
People just want OU to be fair. Gen 9 introduced broken Pokemon like never before so lots of bans are necessary to achieve a semblance of fairness. Even Groudon was outclassed this gen.
Not a metagay. Someone please explain what's wrong with having a completely unrestricted meta? Or just stick to tiering everything according to how good it is? Why completely ban?
Did they unban Palafin?
No
they suck at the game
if they were smart they would ban abilities instead
>they suck at the game
He shouted from the bottom of the ladder
>if they were smart they would ban abilities instead
That would just unjustly deprive low tiers of balanced and useful Pokemon
why glalie?
Moody
gettin’ sick of this thread
anyone with a brain can see how Chi-Yu is overpowered
WTF they actualy banned fricking baxcalibur and below that we have fricking scovillain LOL this fansite is a joke i sweat, its so gay the fact that there are ppl that still follow their homosexual concil rules to this day, not to mention they ban things instantly, i still remember they banned walking wake in the same week and afterwards proceed to unban it just to be less gay, i hate smogon fans so much i hope they neck themselvs at this point
You're so easy to bait.
Scovillain isn't really uber. The only tier it's banned from is LC.
Orothworm?
Not banned
Dugtrio?
Not banned
Cyclizar?
Not banned
Basculegion?
Not banned
Gothitelle?
Not banned
Houndstone?
Not banned
Scovillain?
Not banned
Glalie?
Not banned
Why does OP have to be such a disingenuous homosexual and lie?
Their most important tools are banned, which effectively makes them banned.
Banned from what?
I can use them in almost any tier.
Their most important tools are banned, which effectively makes them banned.
>he glitched out
You say they're not banned yet their most important tools are banned.
They're banned.
If I can use the Pokemon it's not banned.
Also Basculegion's most important tool is swift swim by far. It still performs perfectly well in its tiers.
>They're b-ACK
Okay so how do I use Shed Tail/Arena Trap/Shadow Tag/Moody in OU?
Those moves and abilities are banned, not the pokemon
You? Lost
I? Won
>Those moves and abilities are banned
That functionally means the pokemon is banned too.
>B-BUT-
You're wrong.
But the pokemon aren't banned, I can use Gothitelle in OU if I want
>B-But funct-
You lost.
A Gothitelle denied its full potential is essentially banned. Shadow Tag Gothitelle is banned. The pokemon is banned.
Shadow Tag is banned.
Gothitelle is not banned.
I won.
If it can only be irredeemably useless trash it is essentially banned
>I can't win without my Shadow Tag!
Gee sounds like a massive skill issue
I won btw
>I can't win against Shadow Tag!
Gee sounds like a massive skill issue
You lost btw
>resorts to schizo babble completely unrelated to his original (false) claim
You lost (like Trump) btw
>>You lost (like Trump) btw
>event from 7 years ago
Oh so you're actually moronic
That's not exclusive to Gothitelle, moron
What other Pokemon have shadow tag in gen 9?
it's not banned, the ability is banned
if Gothitelle's only ability was Shadow Tag then you'd be onto something here
>Not banned
>Not banned
>Banned for good reason
>Banned for good reason
>Banned for good reason
>Not banned
>Not banned and Not Banned
>Banned for good reason
>Banned for good reason
>BST is effectively higher than 600
>Not banned
>Not banned
>Banned for good reason
>Banned for good reason
>BST is effectively higher than 600
>Not banned
>Only real questionable ban
>Banned for good reason
>Banned for good reason
>Effective Dynamax user with Ninetales-A on its team
>Not banned
>Banned for good reason
>Banned for good reason
>Bannèd for good reasoń
>Banned for good reasoń
>Banned for good reasoñ
>Banned for good reason
Only odd one out is Volcarona who should have gotten a suspect test. Everything else has good reason to be banned or isn’t actually banned.
frick you for defending homosexualry, youre just a npc who follow theyr gay concil rules with no questioning, so you really think moody is broken? fricking arena trap? ARE YOU FRICKING moronic? 1st one:its totaly possible to phase those shitty strategy of boosting, just like baton pass, moody users cant fricking baton pass to magic bounce or any other option to stop phase in general, 2st: you can simple check it all time with absolute any decent attacker and we have a fricking item like shed shell to avoid getting trapped not to mention flying and levitators cant be fricking affects by it, so stop being gay and play 3v3 which is a decent free of gay ban format
Play the game without overpowered strategies or Pokemon.
crits, speed ties, confusion/paralysis/flinch/freeze/poison procs, damage ranges, and all the <100% accuracy moves prove you wrong
Yet RNG is only a fraction of Pokemon battling.
Stats, BP of attacking moves, effects, status conditions, turns, stat boosts, typing, positioning, etc. make up a bigger portion of battling than RNG.
would any team's winrate actually go up instead of down if it could run Horn Drill?
I understand the logic behind the ban. but would any serious team actually try to run it in order to maximize wr?
why regilectric ban?
tera blast
that's dumb
tera is dumb yeah
Did you try fighting it?
>no
It was balanced by having a shit movepool but tera made it a boltbeam machine
>but tera made it a boltbeam machine
I missed when Regice was the boltbeam machine
so is Dondozo the only mon who ever would have wanted to use Fissure? or are there ou/uber mons from old gens who also would have run it if it wasn't banned?