Smogon banned all these pokemon with 600 or less BST. What is wrong with them
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Smogon banned all these pokemon with 600 or less BST. What is wrong with them
They either countered CHARIZARD or ov a shadowed CHARIZARD
I love that you are so brain busted over a cartoon dragon from a Korean kaiju battle simulator that you have to post about it in every thread.
it's amazing how most of these are only broken because of the clownish 6v6 format they insist on playing.
6v6 has been the standard ever since Generation 1, it's the only pure way to play.
Double battles, along with everything else in Gen 3 and beyond, were a mistake that completely ruined competitive.
>6v6 has been the standard ever since Generation 1
No it hasn't.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Party
Please tell me how many Pokemon each player is using here anon.
>guys gen 1 didn't use this unbalanced format, they used a format that's even more unbalanced!
not a good look
It's based on link cable battles, i.e. two friends getting together and battling.
>6v6 has been the standard ever since Generation 1
Wrong. It was originally bring 6 pick 3. However, Snorlax raped the format so hard in gen 2 that Game Freak created a brand new format where one single pokemon couldn't consistently win by itself, doubles.
Thanks for the tips!
I will make a Snorlax team in GSC and win every match now!
Isn't that also how the Pokemon League tournament in the anime ruled?
This stupid ass homie thinks Gen II competitive is playable
Fanfic meta
Double battles are nintendo's officially endorsed game type. You must have brain damage to like smogon-stall fanfic meta
A lot of those have an ability or signature move that just isn't going to be balanced in 1v1 (i.e. shadow tag, moody, shed tail, last respects, rage fist) so they have to get banned in order to keep the tier playable without it degenerating into some really unfun metagame where every match is decided by things who gets to trap the opponent and set up against it, or gets a substitute up and maxes out their speed and offensive stat with moody, or who manages to get the last respects sweep going first.
The rest are high BST total mons with highly optimized stats and strong abilities and typing. Theoretically they could be unbanned since they don't break the game in the same way something like moody does, but they're so much better than the average OU mon that they fit much better in the Ubers tier where they're actually balanced instead completely dominating the tier (which is the whole point of the tiering system: you want pokemon with roughly comparable power to be in the same tier so that teams built from pokemon of the same tier are at least in theory balanced against each other).
6v6 is the format 99% of all in-game battles use, and the original way to battle. The only reason VGC decided to use doubles, which in the mainline games has never been anything but a rarely used gimmick at best, was because it allows for faster battles. It's hardly surprising people want to battle other people using the same system they've used while actually playing the games.
>6v6 is the format 99% of all in-game battles use, and the original way to battle.
smoggies say cart instead of in-game.
>BST total
The T already stands for total.
>6v6 is the format 99% of all in-game battles use
Besides Fishermen and Champions, virtually no trainers have 6.
>6v6 is the format 99% of all in-game battles use
Damn anon you're right Smogon should use Switch mode and enable Full Restores and Revives too! After all I can use it in the campaign made for toddlers so why not allow it in high level competitive matches too?
I refuse to believe anyone who argues that its wrong to want to play 6v6 matches is serious. It's the dumbest, laziest troll on the board. Do you even play or watch VGC?
This is what OU would look like if Smogtards were capable of understanding the concept of a shifting baseline.
Banning everything above Gen 5 OU's power ceiling is like a fat woman trying to squeeze into her wedding dress from 15 years and 100 pounds ago. It's delusional and embarrassing.
Having a meta where you bring a team of 6 pokemon that can ohko all 6 of the opposing pokemon and gets ohko'd by all 6 of the opposing pokemon only sounds fun for those who don't actually play.
A+ metaphor
>bw ou was 17 years ago
Holy shit, this is way too good. I'm saving this.
Why are you guys so mentally ill lel
>lel
go back
I must have missed when the worm got banned, what did it do to piss off the smoggies?
I think I have a grasp on every other one here otherwise.
banned shed tail
oh
doesn't it have another ability?
oh no, don't tell me these morons are still not allowing ability only bans...
Shed tail is a move, you’re thinking of shed skin anon
why not only ban the move then?
it's literally what happened
That's what they did, Orthworm has never been banned.
Smogon hates banning moves. They banned Aegislash even though it wasn't problematic without King's Shield because "King's Shield isn't broken on Smeargle."
Shed tail is a move
Dishonest, 8 of those Pokemon aren't banned, Moody, Arena Trap, Shed Tail, and Last Respects were banned.
Ignoring those:
Urshifu, Spectrier, Shaymin, Regieleki, Ogerpon, Magearna, Landorus, Iron Bundle, Flutter Mane, Darkrai, Chien Pao, and Chi Yu are legends and should be banned if they cause issues.
Espartha, Baxcalibur, and Annihilape* should be tested for OU again, but it wouldn't be surprising if they stayed banned. *(Any new Pokemon learning Rage Fist could probably justify banning Rage Fist instead)
>th-the pokemon weren't banned! the things that make them usable were banned!
wow thanks finch
Why not add Pokemon that learn Snow Cloak or Sand Veil then? People b***hed when Houndstone was banned instead of Last Respects, there is a difference between the Pokemon and move.
I agree with the sentiment that Rage Fist should just be banned. The complex bans argument should only come into play if people were proposing bans like "Ban Rage Fist on Annihilape" specifically.
I don't care that your headcanon says that Paradox =/= Legendary. Technically a number of the mons that I listed should be considered Mythical too, but it doesn't matter. They're Pokemon that are intended to be overpowered, and it's not surprising that a number of them are the top of OU or in Ubers.
>your headcanon
The definition of legendary pokémon is "anything TPC says is legendary." They didn't say Paradox Pokémon are legendary, so they're not. It's very simple.
Paradox Pokemon are functionally sublegends since they don't have the "restricted" classification.
But I can't stress this enough, restricted Pokemon are supposed to be the baseline power level for Ubers. IF THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE POKEMON IN UBERS AREN'T RESTRICTED POKEMON THE SYSTEM IS BEING ABUSED
Ubers has nothing to do with restricted. The only requirement for being in Ubers is being too broken for OU. If Game Freak made a releases a bunch of CHARIZARD paradox’s at once and those paradoxes were too good for OU, they would be sent to Ubers, the fact that they would lower the powerlevel of Ubers is irrelevant
>Ubers has nothing to do with restricted
Remind me when was Miraidon voted to be banned from OU? Also what tier did Zamazenta crown start in?
I'm looking forward to the day UUbers (Under Ubers) becomes an actual tier.
UUbers is a better name than OUBL, kudos
RNG for accuracy makws sense because of the risk/reward is easier to work with and envision. Shit like evasion is a mess because that RNG trickles into so much shot like an Ouroboros.
snow cloak and sand veil aren't actually good they just banned them because of their no evasion thing even though no one ever used them before the bans.
Moody isn't actually good either, it's banned for the same reasons.
Moody doesn't even change evasion anymore.
Smogtards hate losing to RNG even though they play an extremely random game. The fact that RNG-heavy strategies are almost always bad doesn't factor into their decision making; they seethe whenever they lose a single match to Moody, even if it happened after sweeping 20 Moody teams before.
>The fact that RNG-heavy strategies are almost always bad
what exactly makes you believe that
and it literally makes no difference whether RNG-reliant strategies are good or bad, because Pokemon at its fundamental core is a game that heavily relies upon RNG for its mechanics; Smogon's crusade against RNG is asinine
Moody was originally banned because it could raise evasion.
But now that it doesn't do that... it's still banned for some reason.
The council is just morons.
It generates free turns. Think.
It actually did get unbanned with the evasion change but it got rebanned after it proved to still let players win games on the spot if they get lucky.
Because it shit on stall lol
If you refused to threaten it it would just chill getting stats until freeze dry sweep
The evasion ban is related to rng autism. I personally don't think Moody should be banned, because all its abusers kind of suck, but it's consistent to ban Moody, evasion, and OHKO moves under the same umbrella.
Moves with less than 90 accuracy and Hustle should be banned as well. but that's a different story.
>I agree with the sentiment that Rage Fist should just be banned. The complex bans argument should only come into play if people were proposing bans like "Ban Rage Fist on Annihilape" specifically.
Except Rage Fist isn't broken on Primeape, so it was judged not broken. Rage Fist is what makes Annihilape broken because it has the correct set of qualities to use it well. Annihilape has decent bulk, Taunt, Bulk Up, and Defiant. When you combine those traits with Terra, it means that it can snowball. On less bulky Pokemon that are easier to shut down, it isn't necessarily a problem.
Annihilape isn't broken period
>QQ I'm punished for spamming Uturn
>the pokemon weren't banned
yes
Basculegion is still extremely useful
Paradox Pokémon aren't legendary.
>Any new Pokemon learning Rage Fist could probably justify banning Rage Fist instead
What a moronic policy. If only the move is problematic, ban the move.
They have 570+ BST, they aren't called legendaries but they basically are from a stat perspective just like the UBs.
>Any new Pokemon learning Rage Fist could probably justify banning Rage Fist instead
Primeape also learns Rage Fist and doesnt see shit for usage, so a Rage Fist ban is unlikely.
Should've banned rage fist instead. Annihilape without rage fist is about as good as gen 4 Flygon without draco and outrage - trash.
Espartha, Chien-Pao, Volcarona, Regieleki, and Kingambit (let's face it, he's getting banned soon) can all come off the banlist when they finally ban tera.
>Kingambit (let's face it, he's getting banned soon)
Frick off. They'll never ban it because it's a stallgays finisher.
>stallgays finisher.
What? Why would you use KG as a "Stall finisher"?
Kingambit is what is known as a wall breaker. He's good because late game stall crumbles against him.
there is literally no other reason to use orthworm
Being disingenuous is common on here.
Like how you can have a group of shitmons yet a specific one gets called out and used as a punching bag as if the other shitmons are suddenly not shitmons. But hey, anything to uphold a narrative, right?
In the realm of Pokémon, a tale unfolds,
Of Smogon, once a bastion, in battles bold.
They vowed to play the game, pure and true,
On the cart's canvas, where dreams once grew.
They whispered, "No changes, no fixes we'll decree,
For altering Pokémon, that's not our decree.
To banish gimmicks and rewrite the lore,
Is to wander far from what Pokémon's core."
But as the years flowed on, a shadow cast,
Smogon's light dimmed, its glory couldn't last.
Bans rained down like a merciless storm,
Leaving trainers baffled, feeling forlorn.
Kings Rock, evasion, OHKO, all fell prey,
To Smogon's rulings, where Pokémon's day.
Moderators, once heroes, now marred by doubt,
Indulged in actions that left us without.
Questionable behavior, a sinister blight,
Towards minors, a sorrowful plight.
As Smogon strayed far from its noble quest,
A fanfic meta, in chaos dressed.
The essence of Pokémon, in the cart does reside,
A bond with our creatures, side by side.
To play as intended, where it all began,
In the world of Pokémon, where champions stand.
Yet Smogon, once pure, now treads a thin line,
Lost in elitism, a paradigm's decline.
In search of balance, they falter and sway,
Perhaps it's time to reflect on their way.
For in the heart of Pokémon, the essence remains,
In the friendships we forge, amidst victories and gains.
Smogon, a fanfic, its path may be bent,
But the spirit of Pokémon, it's time to reinvent.
Truly sad how heroes get corrupted over time
what the actual frick
Smogon were always homosexuals. There was no golden age, only the height of the slippery slope were the seeds of today's homosexualry were already sown.
How is it possible to put this much effort into something and not do the basic research?
Smogon gen I had stuff like Evasion and OHKO moves banned, it’s been a thing since the start.
smogon didn't exist in gen 1.
>They banned a bug Pokemon
none of those are Bug-type
volc
oops am stupid
>Fire/Bug
>Not bug
What is Genesect
>what is Pheromosa
ima take a guess, feel free to correct me as i dont know much about competitive other than some random showdown videos ive seen + random matches ive done
>Orthworm
Shed Tail
>Dugtrio
Arena Trap
>Urshifu
Yet another broken ability + its signature move that is basically free crits
>Magearna
Mythical with 600BST and Steel/Fairy typing, very surprised it wasnt banned sooner
>Darkrai
Dark Void got nerfed so not sure if hes ban worthy anymore, having 135 Sp Attack and 125 Speed is powerful i guess? never used darkrai but i think it can abuse tera
>Cyclizar
Shed Tail but has regenerator
>Basculegion
Last Respects is strong but having Adaptability makes it way stronger, Swift Swim in rain also makes it outspeed everything
>Spectrier
Super fast and very strong, when it kills anything it gains a +1 boost to special attack it can become overwhelming if you dont pack any priority moves or a good special wall
>Landorus
actually not sure about Lando here, ig Sheer Force is to much for OU to handle
>Chien-Pao
its basically a better weavile with the benefit of lowering everyones defense, i can see why its Uber
>Gothitelle
Shadow Tag
>Houndstone
Last Respects
>Shaymin-Sky
this thing is made to flinch hax you, has 127 speed and serene grace, making the air slashes have a high chance to flinch you, plus 120 special attack so yeah makes sense its banned
>Iron Bundle
136 base speed and 124 special attack, there isnt many pokemon that can switch into this thing because some madman gave it freeze-dry
>Chi-Yu
fricking nukes everything in sun
>Scovillian
actually clueless on this one, i guess because of Moody? if not moody then i dont know
>Volcarona
All i know is that it can abuse Tera, switching its typing to a more fedensive one makes it a threat
>Regieleki
motherfricker got quick banned the millisecond it got its hands on an ice move, as a huge Regie fan this makes me smile 🙂
>Flutter Mane
very fast, hits hard and can take special attacks very well, ig it was to much for OU
>Baxcalibur
The funny icicle spear + loaded dice got even better since they gave it scale shot, so it doesnt need to run Dragon Dance anymore as it can just sword dance then scale shot, also that its inmune to burns
>Glalie
Moody, without moody its bad
>Urshifu
same reason as other urshifu ig
>Ogerpon
Fire mask and mold breaker was to much for heatran ig
>Espathra
sub, protect with speed boost and stored power is to much(???)
>Annihilape
Rage Fist i guess, tho out of all of the other on pic i dont have much hard time dealing with Annihilape
Allow me to correct you
>Baxcalibur
What really pushed it over the edge was Alolan Ninetales. Being a fast weather setter with a defense boost on a fairy type, it can easily set up aurora veil multople times a game. With both snow and aurora veil, Baxcalibur became nigh unkillable. Yes, you heard that right. Even the most powerful super effective moves in OU failed to drop or even 2HKO a 0 HP/0 defense ice type.
>Espartha and Annihilape
Both of these were banned for abusing tera, but for different reasons. Espartha was pretty straightforward: you set up calm mind + speed boost and use tera blast to KO anything that stored power can't. Annihilape on the other hand was similar to Volcarona where it would chose which checks it wanted to beat and tera for the type desired.
It's spelled Espathra.
Okay, and?
You continuously misspell it, so I helped you with the correct spelling.
Correct, you summed up the reasons quite well
neato, but can you tell me why Darkrai is Uber? im not actually entirely sure why its still one since Dark Void is useless now
Even without Dark Void, it still hits too hard and fast for most of OU to handle and had the option to boost with nasty plot.
Another thing about Baxcalibur
what also pushed it over the edge was A.Ninetales with Snow support which boosts Bax’s defense due to Snow boosting Ice type’s defense, along with Aurora Veil.
many thanks anons, now i know better
>Glaile
I'm not very familiar with Smogon but I thought Glaile was shit and untiered. Could someone elaborate for me?
Moody
It’s not banned moody is.
Obvious bait thread and OP is a complete homosexual, but I still don't understand the genuine hate for Smogon. The whole point is that they WANT to enable people to play with their favorites in metagames that aren't saturated by complete bullshit mons. That's why the lower tiers exist. If half of the morons complaining played a metagame with all of the OP Pokemon/moves/abilities unbanned they would b***h even harder. Singles would literally be completely unplayable.
>. The whole point is that they WANT to enable people to play with their favorites
>You can't use mons or moves you can use in the actual, real games
Umm, yeah, sure
You can use more Pokemon in Smogon formats than you can in the official tournament format.
>The whole point is that they WANT to enable people to play with their favorites
no they don't
they do not ban legendaries, who are almost all designed to outclass nonlegendaries, from all normal formats, nor do they protect any normal mons from being banned from the tier they're unquestionably viable in
smogonhomosexuals have never and will never give a shit about bromons, which are the spirit of pokemon
they are autists who only care about numbers and flowcharts, and manchildren who get enraged when the numbers aren't in their favor
>That's why the lower tiers exist.
You are compIeteIy wrong with this, OU is the onIy tier that matters. The Iower tiers don’t actuaIIy exist as the shit that’s banned in the OP shouId be useabIe in “the Iower tiers”
You know lower tier Pokemon are allowed to be used in OU, right? There's nothing stopping you from rolling up with six shitmons if you wanted to. Lower tiers exist so you can use a team of shitmons without getting stomped.
OP's image could be completely made up and people here would still actually believe it
like it's just so easy to go HOLY SHIT SMOGON BANNED TORTERRA BECAUSE OF SHELL SMASH and people would eat that shit up
idk
>its another "move and ability bans are pokemon bans" thread
>not banned
>not banned
>3-hit always-crit STAB that can be supported by swords dance and weather
>best typing in the game, can boost, ability boosts it even further, has access to stored power
>faster and stronger than most things in OU with amazing coverage
>not banned
>not banned
>finally got a move to hit dark and normal-types
>sheer force combined with nasty plot
>it hits really hard and is fast, nothing can switch in on it
>not banned
>not banned
>120 speed flinchhax
>136 speed and perfect coverage with only 2 move slots
>a special attacker that can chunk blissey with minimal setup
>not banned
>can change its bad typing and hit things that previously walled it
>can change its bad typing and hit things that previously walled it
>ghost/fairy is resisted by a single pokemon line
>has a shiny new 125 BP dragon move that boosts speed and a new partner to set up dual screens turn 1
>not banned
>dark/fighting is amazing STAB coverage and it has the speed and power to make proper use of it, also swords dance
>grass/fire with mold breaker is amazing STAB coverage and it has the speed, power, and coverage to make proper use of it along with an inherent 20% boost to all of its moves
>STAB stored power that can be passively boosted along with recovery and moves to hit dark-types
>good bulk combined with a move that increases with power with every hit against it, ghost/fighting is resisted by a single pokemon
>Shed Tail is moronic
>Stall enabler
>Overpowered cancer
>Overpowered cancer
>Wounded cancer
>Shed Tail is moronic
>Last Respects for Raincucks
>Overpowered cancer
>Overpowered cancer
>Overpowered cancer
>Stall enabler
>Last Respects for Sandgays
>Serene Grace cheese
>Unlimited coverage
>Overpowered cancer
>Moody shouldn't exist
>Tera beats Raincucks
>Smogtards fear a spinner
>Overpowered cancer
>Veilspam made him viable
>Moody shouldn't exist
>Overpowered cancer
>Makes Heatran seethe
>Wounded cancer
>An actual fricking nightmare mon
Not all deserve it but the Finch&Friends Club has spoken despite how few are allowed back.
Why the chili pepper?
She has Moody.
So how are they going to justify Last Respects getting banned over the Pokemon when ghost shitmons like Golurk and Dusknoir get it?
2 Pokemon already have it and it's broken on them.
That's not the question I asked.
It answers your question. The move itself is demonstrably broken, and there are several Pokemon who have it to prove that point.
Alright omgon sis. I'll believe you the day you can tell me with a straight face that Banette would go straight to Ubers if it ever got the move.
The move isn't allowed, so nothing would to go Ubers for learning it. Just like how nothing gets banned for learning Shed Tail.
>w-we'll just pretend the move doesn't exist and ignore the fact it can't save a shitmon who doesn't have the stats or ability to back up the move
I'm stepping out of this argument because clearly you omgongays can't make a good counterargument. Basculegion and Houndstone were broken because they have great abilities with good stats that's the end of it.
Houndstone has 100 attack.
....which is all it needs to deal the damage it needs to, not to mention good bulk and a blazing speed stat under sand. Are you done pretending to be moronic yet?
Base Power of moves matter more than stats.
+2 252 Atk Ogerpon Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 185-218 (54.2 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Mewtwo Psystrike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 185-218 (54.2 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mewtwo has 34 more base SpA than Ogerpon has Atk and yet Ogerpon can deal the same damage as Psystrike with Power Whip, which has only 20 more BP.
Then why did you bring up stats?
To show that Base Power is more important than the stat.
100 Atk is only weak because most Pokemon use 80-120 BP moves. 100 Atk with a 300 BP move is genuinely overkill in terms of power far exceeding most legendaries.
Then something with even better stats getting the move is irrelevant. Seriously, what is your point?
I honestly think Dusknoir would be broken in OU if it got Last Respects, it would probably be a late game cleaner even more aids to deal with than Kingambit with a trick room set.
>glalie
Lmao, it was shit even in its own debut gen, did getting less than garbage really warranted a ban?
Glalie isn't shit, it's just niche. Fast and bulky spikes setter that guarantees at least one and has Explosion.
I'm absolutely done with singles, the past 3 gens were beyond awful, but this one takes the cake especially with the obvious moronic bias, the fact they have banned HOUND FRICKING STONE but not kingambit is insane
>uuuuuh actshually they just banned the move
then ban supreme overlord fricking c**ts, i'm done.
moron
no need to describe yourself
>people here actually defending last respects being banned when supreme overlord isn't
lmao
lmao even
Kingambit is bullshit, but 250BP Last Respects is a lot stronger than a 5-down Sucker Punch
Yeah, a free +1 attack is way less impactful than a no-drawback Hyper Beam at only 2 down.
Aside from the legendaries and the few paradoxmon...
Most of these could be unbanned and the only ones who would suffer are stallgays.
Funny how that works out.
>Most of these could be unbanned
You'd have brainless matches where people just switch and click until the end.
Glalie was always the underdog to Froslass outside of Mega Evolution. What happened here? You telling me that Ice/Electric STAB combo helps Glalie of all mons?
>Scovillain
What? why? i thought this thing sucked ass
Asked and answered.