The integrity of Ubers as a concept is completely lost.
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Smogon is considering banning another uber
The integrity of Ubers as a concept is completely lost.
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>fanfic meta
hey Verlisify
The reality of the situation is Pokemons balance is such a shitshow you need tons of bullshit rules to get something resembling a good PvP experience.
Is smogon council corrupt as frick? Yes but it's as close to a good Pokemon PvP as your gonna get.
i prefer vgc all things considered
My issue with that stance is that it's always a preference of VGC vs smogon singles which are apples and oranges
Virtually nobody plays Smogon doubles so I'd be more interested in preference of doubles vs VGC
In reality the two Smogon lists should not be the same because broken in singles does not equal broken in doubles
Fpbp, didnt even bother reading the other 600 replies, they say nothing important.
>smogon
Spectrier is also Uber even with its shit movepool. Now imagine Spectrier with higher stats and an a movepool. That's Calyrex-Shadow.
This may be true but OP is also correct. Smogon's judge-magisters or whatever they call themselves have been corrupt for years.
>have been corrupt for years.
oh my god just shut the frick up
It's true, it's been downhill ever since the introduction of the "council" BS.
frick off bkc
>Smogon's judge-magisters or whatever they call themselves have been corrupt for years.
The community has been at fault too. A lot of the "lessons" learned from newer gens are getting reverse imported into the older metas. Arena Trap is banned in everything except Gen 3, Baton Pass is banned in everything except Gen 3, Clefable usage skyrocketed in Gen 4, and soon Drizzle/Drought will be banned from Gen 5 OU.
>and soon Drizzle/Drought will be banned from Gen 5 OU.
Doubt it. Weather defines gen 5 OU, they wouldn't dare touch that.
>inb4 b-b-but Spore was banned
oh and I forgot
>inb4 Chlorophyll Venusaur was banned
If anything, Sandstorm and Drizzle could be suspected, but that's bullshit, because the meta revolved around weather from the beginning.
Just look at gen 2 Snorlax
usage and you'll see a proper broken OU mon.
>because the meta revolved around weather from the beginning
Smogon right now doesn't care about history. Zoomers in general don't care about it, they care about narratives and history can be changed to fit a narrative.
The most economical bans for BW is to ban Drizzle, Drought, and Excadrill. Those simple fixes basically remove over a DECADE of failed balancing, allowing players to focus on other shit like Latios and Magnet Pull.
It's the same shit with Gen VIII and the moronic dissonance behind not banning HBD because "muh item ban" yet banning King's Rock because "muh uncompetitive". Kyurem, Weavile, Blissey and Cinderace cease to be problems with HDB removed.
Heavy duty boots are not the issue.
>Heavy duty boots are not the issue.
boots are not the problem, which is why knock off is recommended on every mon that gets it, so hazards can be turned on again
get fricked gen 8 troony
knock became a must pick, splashable move the second it got buffed and was found to be so good once we played with it that it retrospectively gained usage in tiers older than the buff itself
Boots are a problem on like 9 pokemon in all tiers. Z-Moves were a problem on something like 30 Pokemon in all tiers.
>splashable move the second it got buffed and was found to be so good once we played with it that it retrospectively gained usage in tiers older than the buff itself
KO doesn't have the same level of usage in Gen VI and VII due to Z-Moves and Mega Stones which can't be removed. Also, resistance to Knock Off was listed as one of the main reasons for keeping Zamazenta-C out of OU, and subsequently became its sole niche in Ubers as an Yveltal sponge on teams running Calyrex-S.
HDB are a problem, but it's a problem that was fixed with bans to mons instead. If we see more of the same in Gen IX we may see a examination of boots. Generally speaking though, hazards have centralized competitive singles since Gen II and boots invalidate all of them, including Sticky Web. The effect of boots is even greater than Choice Scarf which is essential to the concept of revenge killing.
That's because people applied new gen strategies to old gens and found they were good there too, it's just the meta developing.
>That's because people applied new gen strategies to old gens and found they were good there too
Not without the bans to Arena Trap and Baton Pass. You're missing my entire point.
>Old Smogon: let in as much as possible without breaking the game, we don't develop metas, we just call the game as GF created it
>New Smogon: fun things are fun, GF is run by hacks
Gen V was the first meta where players started to go back to older gens to play, because Smogon so poorly managed it. The majority of players moved forward each gen otherwise, but those old metas were still "reliving the past" because of Smogon's old policy of archiving the old meta's final tiers before the new gen.
Gen VIII is where we see a huge push back into older stuff, reversing of the archive rule, because the players by and large think they're more informed and better at balance than GF is. Why didn't this happen in Gen V? Because boomers were stubborn about nostalgia and keeping the shit metas in place for years, letting them stagnate.
Look at the autism around Gen II Snorlax for no further evidence. newbies to the meta want Snorlax banned because "muh 100% usage" despite both tradition and experiments with a Snorlax-less meta showing it would be shit without lax in the tier, despite Snorlax ALSO being the best Pokemon in Ubers.
>gen II OU would be shit without Lax
I am curious about this but I can't find any info on it, could anyone elaborate?
the start of BlissSkarm
Guess who can handle both?
Blissskarm is a gen 3 stat. It wasn't really that impactful in Gen 2
Uhhh curse/body slam/fire blast lax? But that doesn't really beat either and gets easily wittled down, it also lets Machamp set up curse.
>You're missing my entire point.
Gems were found out to be busted in Gen 5 IU because they were hard to scout, interchangeable with each other set and item wise and generally fricked over a lot of strats with the amped damage and you could fit as many as you want in a team.
Literally everything with any offensive presence to change the meta in Gen 8 is banned it's a joke.
Because offense is leagues power creot then defense is. Also fricked up offense fricks Offense more.
Powercreep has just gotten to the point where another Ubers is unironically necessary.
I'd prefer if they just added a sub-Uber that was usage-based. Like UUbers or Unters or something like that.
Usage-based tiers in Ubers would be cool, but just because I want to use Genesect.
This but footbunny and Zen-Darm. They are so fun to play.
call it Demigod tier
Sadly true.
Or since Ubers needs a banlist, drop the notion that Ubers is a banlist. Make Ubers the standard tier, and let everything start and fall from there.
Most people don't want to play with box legendaries, though.
That's why the standard tier is a step below them.
>Most people don't want to play with box legendaries, though.
Smogon has never catered to the whims of morons who get attached to meaningless labels like legend
Sure they do. They've done it from the beginning. It's the whole reason why Uber exists.
Not "legend", but "box legend" specifically. There is a clear stat difference between box legendaries and other Pokemon. Even Gamefreak acknowledges it by making them restricted.
And Smogon does make exceptions for box legends that are acceptably weak. Like Kyurem-Black and they almost did it again for Zamazenta. They draw the line for what's acceptable in OU at "below average box legendary".
And Smogon caters to people who don't want the meta to be dominated by them by having them be banned by default.
>Not "legend", but "box legend" specifically.
Box legen isn't a real term. Also, the Urshifus were by default in OU.
Okay, then how about "restricted legend"?
Does that soothe your autism? Or would it be better to just give a list?
Ubers banning has nothing to do with box legendary status, the standard is that anything over 600 BST (and that doesn't have a detrimental ability like Regigigas/Slaking) gets banned by default. This includes most but not all box legendaries - e.g. Zygarde and Necrozma which both have 600 bst have always been restricted by VGC rules but Necrozma has never been banned and Zygrade was only banned after it proved to be too strong. It's not just rare cases like Kyurem being tested down.
>Even Gamefreak acknowledges it by making them restricted.
TPCI (not Gamefreak) also restricts mythicals despite most of them being mediocre to outright bad. Hell, they even restrict fricking Cosmog and Cosmoem despite them being literal Magikarp tier shitmons. It has nothing to do with the Pokemon being too strong, TPCI just doesn't like the idea of people casually using super rare legendaries for roleplay reasons regardless of if they're actually imbalanced or not.
I think mythicals being banned has more to do with their availability, or at least it used to be. If you only have a limited window of time in order to get a Pokemon, it wouldn't be fair for anyone who missed that opportunity. Notice how there's been fewer and fewer event-specific moves as well.
It is about availability but smogontards will ignore this because they can just select any mon on showdown
Then why don't they allow renewable ones like Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, Deoxys, Manaphy, Phione, Darkrai, Shaymin, Keldeo, or Magearna?
Especially Phione, because you can literally breed an infinite amount of them.
That's completely asinine, though.
Limited availability really isn't an excuse when Gamefreak are the ones who gave mythicals limited availability in the first place.
There's no reason they can't just improve the availability of mythicals. Also you can literally catch Deoxys just like any legendary Pokemon in ORAS but it was still restricted throughout gen 6 VGC. BDSP gives you a free Mew and Jirachi but they're still restricted. Legends lets you get literally any of the gen 4 mythicals and they're all still restricted too.
>There's no reason they can't just improve the availability of mythicals.
They have over the past two gens. You can get any mythical from the first four gens, event-free.
There's never been an official announcement on why certain Pokemon are banned, and the mythical problem is more to do with the total collapse of the theater system and the anime movies that were used as promotional generating material.
Pokemon XY had the lowest grossing movies of all time in Japan with profits even lower than the BW era which basically remade the same movie twice for a stupid and unsuccessful gimmick. So studio OLM discarded the old anime tie in movies for an AU canon that was very successful for 3 movies. It took the combo of a bad movie + COVID to actually kill off the movie continuity.
For all we know, the Urshifus, horses and Calyrex were intended as this gen's mythicals and just debut through DLC rather than through events.
Mythical banning is pretty much just a matter of tradition at this point, yeah.
Smogon actually used to ban stuff based on availability waaaaaay back in the early days, with them banning legendaries with hidden power in Gen 2 because "it's almost impossible to get". They stopped it because they realized it's pretty silly reasoning. Even in VGC most people hack anyway.
>Even in VGC most people hack anyway.
It isn't correct to say VGC hacks, but rather VGC players buy hacked Pokemon from trusted sources with hacked switches.
>yveltal
blanket check to calyrex-shadow in addition to being a good versatile mon, if calyrex was banned yveltal would drop in usage
>eternatus
blanket check to yveltal in addition to being a good versatile mon, if yveltal wasn't so common because of calyrex being so strong it would drop in usage
>dusk mane
blanket check to eternatus in addition to being a good versatile mon, if eternatus wasn't so common because of yveltal being so common because of calyrex being so strong it would drop in usage
>calyrex-shadow
snowballing gorilla, not quite as shallow as spectrier but still click move kill a mofo, if it wasn't contained by yveltal it would have 100% usage
got it? numbers don't tell everything.
Dusk Mane is also needed for Xerneas
if Calyrex-Shadow is so centralizing, why does its best counter have nearly double the usage? that means almost every player has Yveltal on their team but not every player has Calyrex-Shadow on their team.
If you played OU when Dracovish was legal you would remember Seismitoad being ranked very high and used more than Dracovish. This was because you needed something with a Water immunity or you just lost to it. Once Dracovish was banned, Seismitoad dropped like a rock. The same applies to Calyrex-Shadow and Yveltal except Yveltal is actually good outside of hard countering one very dangerous pokemon.
Yveltal was #1 in usage before Calyrex-Shadow and it would stay there if Calyrex was banned. No megas/primals and no Z-Stones made Knock Off great again in gen 8. Hell, Yveltal was one of the most used ubers in gen 7 as well. Flying Dark with those base stats is a no-brainer.
>Yveltal was #1 in usage before Calyrex-Shadow
This is a lie
After Zacian was banned. Was Yveltal even released at that time? I'm still stuck in gen 7 and mess up the timelime Facade mega-Salamence forever
Groudon and Necrozma DM were above Yveltal
So it was 3rd in usage? With like 40-50% usage? Wew man Yveltal was irrelevant I guess.
Gen 5 is a weird case. At this point you bring either rain or sand, and most of the game revolves around killing the opposing weather setter and 1 or 2 sweepers.
That's why I stick to gen 7, rain is easily countered and every decent team has at least 2 answers to rain, but gen 5 OU is just a lost cause. Ban Ttar and Politoed? Or bring back Venusaur so there are three viable weathers? I don't know. I feel like the older metas just should stay the way they are.
Oh and I forgot, ban Magearna in gen 7.
I juat pointed out that you were lying when you said Yveltal was 1st in usage.
Yeah but who cares? Oh no it was top 5 in usage and not 1st. My point was that Yveltal will remain a top pick in Ubers, regardless if the shadow horse leaves for AG. Stop being so autistic m8
I care because you were giving false information
Well I'm drunk and I don't seem to care as much as you do. And I loved gen 7 ubers :3
And again, Yveltal will stay at the top even without the horse. Great utility, great typing, great movepool.
There's a difference between very good and necessary.
It's also a difference of 30-40%.
Same as the Dracovish/Seismitoad situation.
Calyrex-Shadow isn't really that good if your opponent has Yveltal, but it's an instant win button if they don't.
>>>
win
>wahhhh if I can't switch in my auto counter then it's impossible to play the game
Smogon brain damage right here
There are more people vaccinated against tuberculosis than people who have tuberculosis. Same here, Calyrex doesn't have the usage of Yveltal because of the usage of Yveltal, and Yveltal has the usage it has because not having Yveltal would make those 45% of teams that still have Calyrex much harder to deal with.
>I have to make up comparisons instead of addressing the actual point
he did address the point, you are too stupid
my fricking sides
YOU CAN'T FRICKING SAY THAT!
>if Calyrex-Shadow is so centralizing, why does its best counter have nearly double the usage?
Anon, that’s WHY it’s centralizing.
Your options for checks are Yveltal, Zarude, Tyranitar, and Blissey, and the non-Uber ones are all easily destroyed by its coverage options.
If you don’t run Yveltal or some stupid ass 6 Sucker Punch mons you just lose to Calyrex-S and the latter would lose to Sub sets and its teammates.
It’s not 100% usage since Ubers has more kiddies on the ladder and doesn’t fit on every team, while Yveltal fits on way more teams besides like extreme Stall.
Eternatus wouldn't drop in usage tho.
>blanket check to calyrex-shadow
>blanket check to yveltal
>>dusk mane
>blanket check to eternatus
So what I'm getting here is smogon is just running counters to counters to counters forever.
Dont understand, why can you use pokemon to beat calyrex but you consider they shouldnt be able to use calyrex cause they can beat other easily ?
Because if you aren't running Yveltal, you literally just lose against Calyrex.
There is a lot of merit to using Yveltal aside from checking Calyrex. It's not like Seismitoad where once Dracovish is banned there is no more reason to use it without gimping your team.
There is merit to using Yveltal. But over 80% is just absurd.
And so what ? If I play with shitty pokemon and keep losing, is it really the fault of the meta ?
When it's one specific Pokemon that can shut down everything unless you have another specific Pokemon, yes. It is the fault of the metagame.
If you ban this pokemon, wouldnt another pokemon take its place as the most efficient to win ? Its just absurd, you just dont want the pokemon that can beat YOUR team. Its fricking dishonest.
>wouldnt another pokemon take its place as the most efficient to win
Of course there will always be a "best" Pokemon in each tier, but nothing has been so centralizing as Calyrex-S.
Theres 2 pokemon more used. Its still the same, people would make team around the most used pokemon anyway. Ultimately there will be one who use more used than others. You just dont like calyrex. Stop removing pokemon that you cant beat with your favorites.
>Theres 2 pokemon more used
If you actually read the thread or played the game, you would know why that is. The rest of your post isn't worth reading if you're not even going to put in the slightest bit of effort to make a good-faith argument.
Thats your speculation. My point is that they would be replaces bybthe next best thing anyway and you will always have this situation
>Thats your speculation.
Ubers existed before the ghost horse, and worked just fine.
There has been absurd bans before.
Like?
>omgon ban swagge
Like all the others before, its not a new thing. Stfu
>Theres 2 pokemon more used.
You don't play the game and didn't pay attention to the thread.
? post elo
Frick elo, moron. I only play gyarados and only want to fight geodude. That way I can never lose.
Those pokemon are used by literal children that are bad at the game. Usage stats mean nothing.
Usage stats mean nothing to the people that near exclusively use them to move pokemon between tiers?
Now think about why Yveltal is being used nearly 90% of the time.
Counters Dusk Mane and Calyrex-Shadow, so you pretty much need it to answer those two
All 3 of Yveltal, Necrozma, and Eternatus are used so often because they just fit on way more teams and are a lot more diverse in movepool.
Calyrex-S also forces every team to run Yveltal or Zarude or Tyranitar if they want to even survive against it.
btw this also applies to Landorus and any other Pokemon with high usage.
It bothers me that nobody understands that it's pronounced "Evil-tal"
That's not correct either. When Xerneas and Yveltal were first revealed by the official XY site, Yveltal's pronunciation was written as "ee-VELL-tall" or something to that effect. The middle syllable is the stressed one.
it's pronounced yuh-vell-tall
It's "WHY-vell-tall"
And Xerneas is "ECKS-ern-ayy-ass"
Zygarde is "ZEE-eye-guard"
Its a good thing freezai makes videos about stuff that not many poketubers talk about. Also Eternatus is my favourite of the 3
competitive pokemon alwayth revolveth around the betht pokemon available. people play to win, tho the beth pokemon are uthed the motht often. nothing too revolutionary there. landoruth-t in thdandard play hath clothe to a 50 perthent uthage rate, and in lower tierth you have thithor leading uu at twentythixth perthent, and flygon leading ru with thirty one perthent
>people play to win, tho the beth pokemon are uthed the motht often
heavy doody bootth
imagine having the reasoning an OUgay, couldn't be me
This mon is actually bullshit though, you either have Yveltal on your team or you lose to this.
Or you run Shadow Sneak on one Pokemon.
Yeah, the problem is that the pokemon who have it cannot safely switch into Calyrex-S
You have never played Ubers, come back when you're at least 1500
Aa someone who laddered to the top 200 in AG, I agree. Calyrex shadow is busted. If you don't have a Yvetal, you auto-lose the game.
Just rename it then
Was Mega-Fug the turning point that mindbroke smogon completely? What a chadmon.
Garchomp was the turning point, all the way back in gen 4.
I know it's hard to imagine now, but there was a time where Smogon was actually reasonable. They just banned box legendaries and Wobbuffet and Wynaut (because they could cause a game breaking softlock).
Garchomp was the first time a regular Pokemon was banned just for being a strong presence. That set the precedent that would go on to define the entire format for the next decade and a half.
Mega Fug and the creation of AG was just one step on the staircase that Smogon is falling down.
>omgon ban swagge
>cloyster beat a council member in a tournament so ban monarchs stone
Mewtwo was literally the turning point as being the first Uber literally. Frick off with your dumb Garchomp shit
>I know it's hard to imagine now, but there was a time where Smogon was actually reasonable. They just banned box legendaries and Wobbuffet and Wynaut (because they could cause a game breaking softlock).
The meta was unironically better for it now though. You think Arena Trap and Baton Pass teams are good? Gen IV is the most played meta while Gen VIII OU is filled with homosexuals.
Smogon's problem is the council
Ubers has actually been the best managed meta during this gen, followed by nationaldex. Banning Zacian, Zacian-C and dynamax were good calls. Once Calyrex-Shit is gone it'll be worth playing again.
Anything goes is the more fun format anyway.
Smogon is considering banning an OU Pokemon.
The integrity of OU as a concept is completely lost.
Ubers always existed as long as Smogon tiers did.
>omgon
Please remind me why should I care about what a bunch of pedofile autismos think about an optional gamemode in a children's videogame series?
Literally no said you should care, although you clearly do considering that you took the time to come into this thread and b***h about smogon anyway.
Confirmed child groomers should be shunned at every single moment they breathe and take a single step among the common folk, you fancying their brand of autism should be a non-factor
I don't care about smogon, but I do care that other people care about smogon.
The very idea that someone likes something I don't really rustles my jimmies.
>people who play the tier daily and win tourneys
shit at the game, don't know what they're talking about, omogon wienersuckers
>me, who 's hardstuck at 1100 ELO in Ubers with my team of 6 haphazardly put together box legendaries
Pillar of the community, know EXACTLY what would save the meta, only not the #1 best player in the world cause omgon council is conspiring against me by banning all skillful strats
>omgon pedos have stockholm syndrome and/or get by on nepotism alone
Woah...
show tourney tops or shut up
show vgc earnings or play the game
so no tourney tops? Crying about omogon won't make you any better either, shitter
playing fanfic meta isn't the real game lmao
show VGC tops then
I asked you first
>my post
12:44:49
>your post
12:46:48
not very good with numbers are you? No wonder you've never won anything in your life and have to resort crying about omogon 🙂
play the game
keep seething
Most sensible ban in the past 1.5 years, Calyrex-Shadow is an abomination
Calyrex-Shadow probably should.
Ubers is now "use Yveltal or you lose 100% of the time instead of 50%" and it's really boring.
play AG
ITT: people who have never played anything competitively before crying about competitive
That's board-agnostic.
>Snorlax literally warping the meta around it self is good
>BlissSkarm being reliable is bad, even though both of those Pokémon combine are nowhere near as versatile or overpowered as Snorlax since blissey and Skarmory actually have exploitable weakness (physically attacks and Fire/Electric attacks respectively, while Snorlax is functional indestructible thanks to Curse
Gen 2 isn't built around Snorlax, but rather around Zapdos and Raikou. No Steelix/Golem/Nidoking? Too bad, you better hope for thunder misses and rest/talk luck.. Oh you have an immunity? HP water goes wrooom.
>Gen 2 isn't build around the pokemon that has 100% usage.
r8 my gen 7 team that loses to mega-Lopunny, Medicham, and Greninja.
Tyranitar-Mega @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 240 HP / 160 Atk / 84 Def / 24 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock
Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- U-turn
- Taunt
- Hurricane
- Knock Off
Excadrill @ Steelium Z
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
Tapu Fini @ Choice Specs
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 80 HP / 176 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Moonblast
- Hydro Pump
- Grass Knot
Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 172 Def / 64 SpA / 24 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Heat Wave
- Roost
- Defog
Just watch the Freezai video
Why do you gays care about bans if you don't even play? If you don't see how Calyrex is a problem then you clearly don't play the tier.
Nintendo fans have some weird complex about competitive play. Goes all the way back to the "Tiers are for queers" stuff Smash players used to say
It's a problem with Smogon specifically as their nonsense ruins discussion of the actual games, competitive means two different things depending on who's using the term.
>neither Spectrier or Calyrex learn Focus Blast or Dazzling Gleam
Absolute shitmons through and through. Singles and doubles will never see the light of these two.
Blame powercreep.
In a few gens time once we've had enough Pokemon that are too good for Ubers, they'll make a new tier between Ubers and Anything-Goes to act as the new Ubers.
Ubers effectively becomes OU, OU effectively becomes UU, so on and so forth.
sounds moronic, do a tier between Ubers and OU instead
That'd just be a BL Limbo tier, Ubers has a pretty big issue where there's Pokemon that are too good for OU, but mediocre in Ubers.
>Ubers has a pretty big issue where there's Pokemon that are too good for OU, but mediocre in Ubers.
That's because they don't belong in Ubers, they belong in OU, but OU just doesn't have enough defensive mons to handle them in the tier.
Heatran and Lando have such high usage because they have 600 BST and rare defensive typings and spreads. Both are also Legends meaning they could be obtained in the main game, but not the so-called box legend or mythicals. The only other 600 BST legends are the Latis, Zygarde, and Necrozma.
>not enough defensive mons
are you fricking with me? why cant we have an offense meta for once? Always gotta be slow and defensive with you smogtards
6v6 level 100 singles is like the only place defensive/stall strats can really work, if you hate it literally play another format like 3v3 or doubles.
Or even any tier below RU, which tends to skew towards hyper offense anyway due to most good defensive mons in OU.
In fact I wonder about how RU is doing these days with all 3 slows in OU. Blissey and Chansey in OU means no special sponge in UU. Basically just fat waters right?
Because no one likes Rocket Tag where speed is king.
>Always gotta be slow and defensive with you smogtards
Heatran and Lando are more properly classified as tanks. Their typing/ability/spreads skew towards defense but they also have sizable attacking stats and good moves to use them with.
The only mythical I can think of that's even comparable is Melmetal, who is far too slow to accomplish much defensively in OU. Hence why it's rarely used to sponge attacks and force shit out, and more to just be a fat wallbreaker.
>why cant we have an offense meta for once?
That's exactly what gen 8 is.
Is this a joke
Every good Pokemon that isn't notSkarmory was banned besides Rillaboom
There's Dragapult, but it and Regieleki are around specifically because they don't hit hard enough.
Ghost STAB Dragapult was banned from natdex and kept banned during a retest.
Gen 8 is an extremely offense heavy meta and stall is the worst it's ever been. Play the game.
>Gen 8 is an extremely offense heavy meta
This is a lie, offense is short for "hyper offense" not fat balance you twat
>stall is the worst it's ever been
this is true
>This is a lie, offense is short for "hyper offense"
No it isn't, you absolute mongoloid.
Hyper offense is just the most extreme form of offense.
>why cant we have an offense meta for once?
Gen 7 OU.
>That's because they don't belong in Ubers, they belong in OU, but OU just doesn't have enough defensive mons to handle them in the tier.
Uber Pokemon are Banlist first, metagame significant second.
>Uber Pokemon are Banlist first, metagame significant second.
That's not what I mean. I don't think GF thinks much about typing or movepool when it comes to competitive, from their comments on mons like Aegislash and Urshifu they seem to focus on BST and spread. Or it might even be possible BST and ability/moves are decisions made by different people, if James Turner's comments are to be believed.
Naganadel with its 540 BST was never intended to tango with the likes of Groudon or Lugia, It was intended as a pseudo-starter It was even "balanced" by having a "low" speed stat of 121 instead of 127. But the fan managed meta could not handle it in the slightest. So we have a mon intended for casual play, that was unintentionally way too strong for casual play.
Urshifu-SS seems to follow a similar pattern with GF stating it would have low BST, but the offensive typing, ability and move made it literally unstoppable.
To be fair, sometimes it's also just an unkind meta or becoming outclassed. Lugia sucks in Ubers, but there's no way in hell anyone would ever ask for it to drop to OU.
>Lugia sucks in Ubers, but there's no way in hell anyone would ever ask for it to drop to OU.
Lugia sucks in ubers because of ability creep
>Gen 5: introduce Multiscale but give Mold Breaker clones to box legends, however they are permanently slower than Lugia
>Gen 7: introduce moves that bypass Multiscale while introducing a Multiscale clone that can't be bypassed on a Pokemon with a better typing, spread and movepool than Lugia
>Give speed boosting moves to the Mold Breaker mons
Lugia was already getting power crept some by Gen 5 before HAs, Multiscale let it extend its run for a little longer.
Ho-Oh, Kyurem, and Hoopa-U basically have the best spreads for a 600 BST+ mon ever seeing OU though. Mixed attackng stats that don't exceed 130 or SpD as the dump stat
I mean like a sub-Ubers tier.
The same way Pokemon who don't get enough usage in OU can drop to UU, Pokemon who don't get enough usage in Ubers can drop to sub-Ubers.
At this point, we have enough Uber-level mons to justify it.
If you've been looking at the pokemon in UU, it basically is what OU was 10 years ago. Power creep has definitely shifted every tier down.
Why hasnt Smogon ever made an official pokemon game tier? Ones that only use rules in the actual game?
Are they afraid everyone will stop using their fanfic meta
because they are a bunch of candy-ass roody poos
Way to out yourself moron, you have never played Showdown and you probably have never played any form of comp ever.
? post elo
You can literally play both VGC and BSS on showdown.
They literally changed the rules in both of these formats. Added their own clauses. Neither of these are 100% official
No, it's just species and item clause, none of their own.
What I hate is one is doubles and the other is 3v3 but none of them are 6v6
Ubers should be only seen as a ban list and non-legendary Pokemon shouldn't be banned to Ubers.
>NOOOOOOOOOO ARTICUNO IS TOO GOOD IT *NEEDS* TO BE BANNED
>huh? Dracovish? G-Darmanitan? nahhh it's fine lol
Latest gen was a mistake in general. Frick the stupid horses, frick Eternalanus, frick the gay metal Mary Sue dog and FRICK Dragapult.
This upcoming Gen is very likely going to be worse, Calling it here and now.
Ideally gen 9 introduces Pokemon that can annihilate stall but are btfo by actual offense, thus allowing offense to be good for the first gen since RBY
>annihilates stall
>btfo by offense
600 BST poison types sounds like
>btfo by offense
>that beast
pick one
Good offensive poisons are definitely how you suffocate stall, but something like that won't be killing stall in Ubers.
stall is the most skillful gameplay, which is why Smogon caters their metagame to it
>Pokemon that can annihilate stall but are btfo by actual offense
You mean wallbreakers?
It won't get banned. Smogon Ubers loves Yveltal more than OU loves Landorus. The counsel is on record of saying they wouldn't care if Yveltal hit 100% usage.
Yveltal will still continue to be used as a strong counter to Necrozma-DM and Lunala.
What will drop out of Ubers entirely will be Zamazenta-Crowned.
I hate gen 6 but I think Yveltal is bretty neat lookin
Daily reminder that these morons who don't actually engage in comp despite ranting and complaining about it do the same thing for politics.
? post elo
We dont have to participate in it to see its bullshit
>why are you complaining about eating a log of shit? you aren't a chef, you have no idea what you're talking about
you don't play the game so you're not eating that log
>Hey, im thinking of removing the mayonnaise off this sandwich since it seems to overwhelm the taste of everything else..
>"Shut the frick up. You don't know what you're talking about."
>? You don't even eat sandwiches. How would you know if it's good or not?
>Muh log of shit!! Shit shit shit!! Stop making me have experience before talking!!!
Don't you just love it when annoying stall motherfrickers lose? I do
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1610153335
>AuroraBoost's rating: 1313 1333
>(+20 for winning)
yes im casul