Smogon with another biased suspect
Oh yeah it must be Ogerpon or Kingambi-
>Roaring Moon
Lmao wtf? this shit was UU, everyone gave it low scores, it wasn't even relevant enough to be in surveys
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they need to come up with an OUBL tier or something. volcarona only being allowed in a tier that also allows 680 bst legendaries is bullshit.
Just play UUbers
BL's are not tiers.
If you wanted a tier like that, it'd just be OU with the old OU being UU now etc.
Yes. The entire point of OU is it's supposed to be "the strongest Pokemon that aren't cover legendaries." If the average power level of the game is such that dozens of the best non cover legendaries are being sent to Ubers, maybe we need to acknowledge that that power level is what OU should be and the OU we are trying to make is the new UU.
this. pokemon is very clearly moving in the direction of hyper offense over the course of the last few gens and smogon needs to stop clinging to archaic paradigms like stall and balance.
more bans this gen than any other, with even more on the way, and yet it's still the most HO-focused meta ever. the game has fundamentally changed, and they need to get with the program.
A game with only one playstyle is not healthy for competition
endless bans to support niche playstyles that game freak clearly want gone isn't "healthy" either.
>niche playstyles
Everything dominated by hyper offense isn't fun. Knock off spam, hazard spam and then clean up is the most boring shit ever.
if you want a meta that isn't just hyper offense, you have to play lower tiers or past gens. OU will never be anything but HO central from now on, no matter how much smogon whines about it. they're simply too slow, by the time they finally get around to banning every ""broken"" (too much for the neutered defensive archetypes to handle) HO mon this gen, the next gen will be out.
The meta gets more and more hyper offensive the lower you go.
so what you're saying is... defensive team structures don't function outside of tiers where they can be artificially propped up by targeted bans?
hmm, it's almost like HO is the intended way to play the game and everything else is square peg round hole shit.
That's not necessarily true, if the entire meta was Balance teams it would be a lot more playable, the issue is if HO is the meta the game just becomes match up fishing and coinflipping, to the best of my understanding.
>That's not necessarily true, if the entire meta was Balance teams it would be a lot more playable
that's gen 8 OU, and it's pretty commonly agreed that it's the worst state OU has ever been in.
True enough, is that an issue with Gen 8 not having a good answer to multiple Regenerators + Boots?
yeah, pretty much. boots are unironically a broken item and should have been banned. finch has a hard-on for regenerator spam, though, which is why the tier is in the state it's in. future sight also needed to be looked at, that shit was absolute cancer.
Counterpoint, isn't Future Sight one of the only ways to break through Stall in Gen 8?
at the end of the day, all future sight does is make the already-dominant playstyle even better. it's not needed to break stall (which isn't very good compared to balance anyway), teleport is enough for that.
future sight teleport allowed breakers to beat pokemon that could sit in and spam recovery moves. it was necessary to make games not take 100 turns. HDB werent broken either, it was just that regenerator pivots gave teams way too much momentum for almost 0 cost but everyone thought that was a problem with HDB when it was really just a problem with no cost pivot mons being OP and stapled onto every team
no one sits in and spams recovery moves in gen 8, that's a fast track to kart SDing in your face and busting your team wide open.
oh yeah, sd kart, that thing thats on every single team without fail. how about this, ill go look at the SPL gen 8 ou replays and ill see how many recover spam mons there are compared to kartanas
first of all finch lost (lol)
Anyways if we dont count the stall teams since that would just be unfair, theres 5 zapdos that spam roost, 1 toxapex outside of stall, 3 clefables outside of stall, and 1 corviknight outside of stall.
Meanwhile theres 1 band kart, one scarf kart, and the other kart just clicked knock off 1 time so idk the set. It seems like this sd kart theory doesnt pan out in the face of recover spam but i could check other weeks if you would like.
To be charitable, are there any other wallbreakers who set up in front of recover spammers?
Nah G9 is the biggest PL spike ever and omgn the same homosexuals.
Sorry, for
1 sd weavile (other one looked banded) 2 sd chomps 1 double dance landorus 1 iron defence body press corviknight
>just accept a dogshit meta game because gamefreak cant balance their game
I haven't gotten to G9 yet, but is Tera really comparable to Z-Moves or Dyna power level? I know it gives you extra STAB but that sounds really mild compared to 200+ BP move or 150PB move with 10 more extra effects on top and 50 benefits to the maxed mon.
It's stronger than Z-Moves and weaker than Dyna, but being weaker than the most gamewarping mechanic in series history could mean a lot of things.
Adaptability on every Pokemon is one hell of a drug
A type change can make Pokemon with narrow counter play obnoxious, also some types are just good defensively to a point that it becomes match determinative
It's nowhere near as busted as dynamax, I don't think anything outside of Mega Fug compares to it, just a mechanic that can break certain matchups with too much ease
Same type terastal Water Hydro Pump
>110*2=220
Unless I misremember and it is actually
>(110*1.5)*1.5=247.5
It also gives you almost free setup turns, let you get rid of weaknesses and more.
Z-moves are mild compared to Tera.
it's wild on setup sweepers who can just pull multiple free turns out of their asses with a type change, like volcarona for example.
>switch to counter in the QD
>oops it tera'd into a steel type and now your rock move does nothing and it QDs again for free
>if you're locked into that rock move or can't otherwise hit the steel type then that's a THIRD QD
>gg no re
Wait they still didn't realize that gimmicking not taking a turn is bullshit? Bloody hell.
>they need to come up with an OUBL tier or something
That already exists, it's called Ubers.
>annihilape and volcarona are just as broken as mewtwo and rayquaza
there needs to be an in between
only bad players struggle with Annihilate
It got the two best moves for its type (scale shot and knock off) in the dlc. This happens every gen when new or returning mons get access to new moves.
No their really doesn't. No one cares that your fav is stuck in "too good for OU too shit for Ubers" limbo
>Is suspect testing playing a version of the meta without the pokemon to see the changes
Yes a suspect test is a temporary ladder with the proposed metagame changes
>No their really doesn't. No one cares that your fav is stuck in "too good for OU too shit for Ubers" limbo
The problem is that the majority of what was supposed to be in OU will end up there, to the point it'll be a bigger list than the list of OU.
Explain, what is that?
It's a new usage based tier between Ubers and OU, where you can't use the mons that are high usage in Ubers, this results in some funky stuff like Skeledirge which is UU being banned since it sees high usage in Ubers play.
It's a pretty nice home for forgotten Ubers like Magearna, Shaymin-Sky, Palafin, Palkia Origin, and all the weird Arceus forms.
Unfortunately since it's a small niche meta right now, you have to use discord to get matches, unless it gets a proper ladder on Showdown.
UUbers is ubers but without the top most used pokemon in ubers. Don't remember what exactly the cutoff point is, but it's basically splitting the bottom of ubers, that are too strong for OU but not strong enough to get use in ubers, into its own tier.
If it's not good enough it'll fall to UUbers
it got buffed in the dlc
uubers just launched last week
OUBL is called ubers
BL is the banlist when the Pokemon is too strong to be in that tier but not used enough in the next
Just play ubers
Ubers is OUBL
>BLBL
Fricking gross
>Ogrepon
Which one of them?
The water one
ban ghold you cowards it's the reason why the meta is hyper offence central
ghold is not that bad.
Isn't the standard complain that smogon loves stall? So shouldn't the meta now being hyper-offensive be a good thing and disprove that notion?
it is hyper offensive and stall homosexuals are SEETHING its hilarious
stall is crazy good this gen too. its a see saw meta
you can beat stall with hyper offense though, its not completely unwinnable 0-100 matchup. You just need to have a blackglasses kingambit and get an SD
And after roaring moon there will be more.
Is suspect testing playing a version of the meta without the pokemon to see the changes or is it fricking autists using their "theories" to see if a pokemon is op or not?
suspect ladders are a new ladder where you have to have a certain point requirement and win/loss ratio to qualify for the suspect voting. its actually the same tier as the original ladder but its meant to make you confront the suspect pokemon and form a more focused opinion on if its healthy for the metagame or not. personally i think suspects are a bit unfair because the people who have no problem with the pokemon have very little incentive to ladder while the people who hate it and want it gone are incentivized to get reqs and ban it. Although in gen 9 it seems like most pokemon and mechanics are surviving the suspect test process.
There are alternate metas like gen 7 UU (no scald) or the infamous gen 6 OU (no aegislash) where the point was to demonstrate how different the metagame would be if these things were already banned without a suspect test.
> personally i think suspects are a bit unfair because [bad players aren't allowed to vote]
That's the entire point though. So noobs that do not understand the game don't ruin things with their silly notions.
finch is a pedo
Roaring Moon didn't have Knock Off before.
>suspect for a pokemon no one uses
what the frick? i'm just a 1500 shitter sure but i fricking never see roaring moon
this looks like a classic case of finch's "i lost to (thing) so we have to suspect and ban it RIGHT NOW" autism
>this looks like a classic case of finch's "i lost to (thing) so we have to suspect and ban it RIGHT NOW"
This.
Literally everyone was giving Roaring Moon a 3 on the forums. Finch brings a suspect and suddenly it's a major concern.
Smogonturds are impressionable morons
Its because knockoff makes it stupid powerful
it is not broken, but it is very strong
I OHKO'd a tera fighting gholdengo with +2 knock (also attack booster)
straight up 100% and he's dead. a fricking gholdengo
>I OHKO'd a tera fighting gholdengo with +2 knock (also attack booster)
Why would you knock on a fighting type
Why would Gholdengo Tera Fight on a Tera Flying Acrobatics mon?
Why would Ghold let you get +2?
are you moronic? he knocked because gholdengo starts as a steel ghost. it tera fighting'd to stop the knock off that would otherwise hit the ghost super effectively. It was already +2 because it set up earlier
Im not even the anon and i could decipher this easily
Roaring Moon is the most used mon at SCL (a big omgon) tournament last week
BL tiers are bullshit the way they are. What's wrong with giving players the option to play them?
Just set a toggle whether you want to face BL mons or not, like an additional toggleable rule, and make it YES if you use BLs yourself.
Finchinator? Well, he ain't no Centro, I'll say that much.
HOWEVER...
Roaring Moon is basically Baxcalibur Jr the moment it got access to scale shot and knock off.
I'm actually fine with the suspect as there is merit behind it, IN A VACUUM. But Gholdengo can't keep getting away with it and should have gotten a suspect before Moon did.
Roaring Moon already had Scale Shot. It was the only Pokemon that learned it prior to the DLC. It doesn't need it anyway. Roaring Moon doesn't run Dragon STAB. It runs Booster Energy + Tera Flying Acrobatics, Earthquake, Knock Off, and Dragon Dance
I got reqs for this test using terablast fairy and it was gigabased (booster attack), knock & eq were my other moves
if you dont realize 6v6 singles is stupid them i guess you deserve to be a smogon gay, i mean you are literaly supporting these concil gays for posting it here already, just let them be forgotten and they will desapear, just like their stupid dead analysis in their website which nowdays are completely not existed, smogon is shit format just like 6v6, stop pretending to have fun making switches for 99 turns and using attacks in pivot walls like a homosexual and play a superior format in 3v3 which is way more skill based and yo can use what you want
Is this normal cause I don't remember Smogon being this clusterfricked with SuMo or Sw/Sh.
Posible stupid opinion alert: the old tiering naming convention doesn't really work anymore and smogon should just go by number. Like, I get that the tiering goes by usage, but shit's just so powercrept now that a label like "Ubers" means nothing.
Make Tier 0 with every Pokemon available and just go from there with a ".5" between each tier for a banlist.
Roses and names anon. There is more pressing shit to deal with than names.
Ban tera. Holy shit, how is this broken mechanic still around?
At least give us a non-tera playlist.
just play gen 6 or gen 7. much more positioning and long term planning and counterplay than this tera into your counter GG meta
>just play gen 6
Already do
>or 7
I despise Z moves
chegged, would you like to play a few games of gen 6 ou on showdown?
I only play on cart. I love PSS too much.
Watching through the S/V replays its astounding how many games are lost to tspikes + kingambit or tera normal dragonite. at least half of the games are either won by these 2 or the other team is put into an unwinnable deficit because of kingambit
I already got reqs and will be voting do not ban because banhappy stalltrannies get the rope
>I already got reqs
Lel