>sniper is le bad becaue he just is, ok?
>random crits are le bad because they just are, ok?
the two most NPC-like takes in the game
I had been on a hiatus from TF2 in between 2018-2022 but in the past year after the return (mostly to play MvM with old friends) I had noticed that these somehow had become the prevalent voices in the TF2 community mostly propagated by those uncletopia fricks, while at the same time they ignore other glaring issues with the game (other than the bot crisis)
I don't know if this is the case of a loud minority, but if this is how TF2 is going to look like when the casual servers eventually close, I don't think I would want to play it
 CRIME Shirt $21.68 |
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CRIME Shirt $21.68 |
Well the one thing you have to look forward to OP, is that if the casual servers close there will be actual demand for vanilla servers to play on, which means aside from some issues that likely will result in incel dane getting either legally served or shot for harassing people trying to make startups eventually user servers will return and you will more than likely be able to find an actual decent one.
Give me a catch up on the elusive Dane lore. Only part of it that i ever heard was that he's a groomer.
Any other interesting stories his fanbase decides to keep covered up? Certainly there is some history.
I just know that he runs around in the same circles as Soundsmith and le ebin wholesome comp sucking. I got more dirt on soundsmith who manage to drive away most of his friends with his shitty attitude.
>I got more dirt on Soundsmith
Whip it out, this got to be interesting.
iirc, Bearded Expense was going to kill himself and Soundsmith saved him from it, only to turn around and start berating Bearded for some of his political opinions. Sentro tried to get involved to stop it but was then chewed out the same way. It's why both rarely if ever show up. I think in bearded's case he just full on got removed from Soundsmith's friend's list.
That and Soundsmith encouraging the dogpile onto Zesty Jesus over the latter saying "French Trannies" in a discord convo.
You don't want to get on Soundsmith's bad side, or give him your contact info
?t=1539
25:39
>Literal entire thing is trying to force people to play the game how he thinks it should be
>Already has servers in every region
>Fiscal incentive to drive people to his servers as that's his primary source of income.
There's a variety of other things, like how his channel only took off because he's friends with iDubbbz or when he groomed Lazy Purple when he had a quarter life crisis and a mental breakdown destroying his servers, but the primary thing has always been that he's been cancer.
It's a shame that Dane went down the hole he went because some of his engineer content was fine. Not the best or most practical but absolutely fine.
It was always shitto
>groomed lazypurple
never heard of that one, context?
>Dane groomed LazyPurple
more info on this?
LazyPurple sort of freaked the frick out before he made his "Team Fortress 2 is a timeless masterpiece" video they got him to go to a doctor and get him on ritalin, they also quietly started pushing regulars out of his servers and replacing them with people from his community to start influencing him.
Ritalin fricks you up and gives you severe manic and depressive episodes and they exploited this to completely isolate him from his friends.
The thing I always found with the LazyPurple videos is that they have really good editing and storytelling, but not really anything of real substance.
that explains why his silly servers went to shit, you used to be able to joke on there about anything now it's just a bunch of autists circle jerking va shitty roleplay.
yeah plus the gag's just aren't funny.
Random crits are okay. Sniper is just bad.
It's more an issue with the modern landscape of online multiplayer gaming because literally fricking everyone cheats.
tell your spy, scout or sniper to kill him
>"Hey Scout, can you get past the Heavy+Medic combo, 2 soldiers, Demo, 2 pyros, and engineer with his sentry to kill their Sniper?"
>"Don't bother Spy, he has razorback and is too close to the sentry for gunning"
This. All the research point out that engagemants overall would be much more fun without sniper. Especially in choke points
That sounds like a problem of players just dumbly walking straight to the objective or choke instead of making sure it's clear to do so. It sounds like new players who aren't interested in knowing what the different classes do or which ones the enemy team has, they just want to walk forward and shoot people, and they're mad because they can't reach (or see) the Sniper. That's the level of argument here.
No, it's because it's extremely easy to program a bot to play Sniper close to its skill ceiling. Just click on heads. Programming the other classes would be incredibly difficult and wouldn't reap the same level of rewards. The classes were balanced to be played by humans, so the ceiling is irrelevant.
Hackers actually love Scout, because it's easier to get away with. You can aimbot while jumping around like crazy, with not a care in the world for where you're facing because you'll hit anyway. You won't be obviously unstoppable, but you'll still top the leaderboard - and people will actually have to spec you to find out if you're cheating (and Valve made it difficult to do this because they're homosexuals).
It's a loud majority unfortunately, but I agree.
Right now what we're seeing is the metastasizing of a number of cancers that were present from the beginning.
>"Remove sniper"
Translation: I don't like area denial classes and think that I should be able to just stand around in open areas with zero consequences.
>"Remove random crits"
Translation: "I wish soldier and demo were removed, but I'm not brave enough to say that."
>"Remove spy"
Translation: "I want there to be zero consequences to having no situational awareness."
>"Remove pyro"
Translation: "I want spy removed and without spy there's no reason for pyro to exist."
If you listened to these people, TF2 would just become the shotgun version of CoD.
the trouble with sniper is that he's too powerful at ANY range and his unlocks are in dire need of nerfing and certain sightlines are just too big
sniper should not only be countered by enemy snipers.
>hides behind a sentry/razorback
>also adds jarate as a huge middle finger so he doesn't have weak short range
terrible design, the fact that sniper is allowed to bypass his weaknesses compared to heavy who gets nothing is nothing short of unbalanced.
>Jarate
>No weak short range
Bro just stop walking at them when they throw it and if they aren't on auto pilot cheating will just die because you didn't run into melee range
sniper should not be effective at close range at all he needs harsher drawbacks to being as powerful as he is.
>his unlocks are in dire need of nerfing and certain sightlines are just too big
This is the real issue with sniper (aside from the cheating). Jarate is fricking moronic.
>natural hardcounters
the razorback is an extremely artificial way for sniper to counter spy, if it included unlocks then demo and soldier would be countered by engineer and medic
>certain sightlines are just too big
That's just a map problem. People don't even play the maps with the worst sightlines anymore because they're arena
>That's just a map problem
Do any other classes have this attribute?
Do people just see a pubstomping pyro or heavy or demo and just go "gee I guess this map is just really good for that class"? I know some maps hinder the use of scout and sniper due to being close quarters.
>Do any other classes have this attribute?
Soldier and Demo quite famously have also broken the maps added, because loads of them are built with prefab rocket/sticky jump routes.
Yes, absolutely there are maps where heavy, demo, and pyro are better.
the fact that maps had to be designed around making sniper sightlines not too powerful is very telling that sniper needs to be redesigned.
No it's not, maps need to be designed around literally every class in TF2. It's how good map design works in TF2
then tell me why maps with poor sightlines make sniper the dominant class every single time.
>maps need to be designed around literally every class in TF2.
The only three classes that need to be considered is Sniper, engineer and an uber push.
Disagree. There should always be a sneaky route for scouts and spies.
Flank routes should just be a natural part of designing a level for any class.
Spies and scouts should be especially considered, as their whole class revolves around needing such. Any class should be able to use them, but spies and scouts NEED them.
plus rewarding sneaky engineers as an added bonus.
this, there needs to be good flank routes and not just choke point simulator.
>this is somehow a competitive map
Seriously who the frick thinks this is a good map, quite literally my most hated payload map and I'm a sniper main
Well you see all that space that's a fricking problem for sniper to exist in?
Now imagine people are only playing Scout Soldier Black Soldier and Medic
>Do any other classes have this attribute?
Yes. Claustrophobic maps are better for Pyros and Heavies, terrible for Scouts and Snipers. Maps with various elevations are good for Spies if they can be jumped up to, but they're good for Soldiers if not. Maps with lots of flat surfaces are also good for Soldiers and Demos, while maps with bumpy terrain is terrible. Maps with half-walls are better for Demos. Maps with water are worse for Pyros. I could go on.
>maps with water are worse for pyros
>implying
Don't threaten me with a good time.
>Maps with water are worse for Pyros
not true because Neon Annihilator exists but nobody would ever go about how it
>removes pyro's only weakness
Just shoot the pyro, it is a melee weapon.
Neon Annihilator helps, but the number of times someone flees from you on fire will outnumber the number of times you're able to actually chase them to water. People kill Pyros pretty easily, they make up for it by lighting everyone on fire and hoping the DoT does lasting damage.
The Neon Annihilator is about controlling enemy movement, not eliminating a weakness. Water was never a weakness for pyros. You always have your vanilla shotgun, which is a beast in its own right. Neon Annihilator is a simple logic train of
>I set you on fire
>You go to water to douse it
>I follow you into water and pyroshark you
Which is not much different from
>I follow into the water and shotgun you
Pyros are all about controlling enemy movement and forcing them into engagements that benefit the Pyro.
Nobody ever goes on about it because water incredibly rare in maps, and even where it does appear it is seldom ever near anywhere important.
Pyro's main weakness is range. If you just backpeddle and shoot them you'll come out on top more often than not. When you engage a pyro in medium range outside of their flamethrower 9/10 times they'll just miss flares at you or keep trying to approach, none of them carry a shotgun
>do people just see a pubstomping pyro
phlog on dustbowl and hoodoo is complete bullshit that kills lobbies
soldiers have jump routes that make it so you cant play forward on maps like upward first and second point. you basically have to let them get 75% of the cap and hide behind a sentry because soldier bombs are way too devastating, spawn too often, and can move around the map from spawn quickly. Im having trouble thinking of maps besides upward and pheonix but soldier roll outs are a huge boon in payload maps.
I never understood how they could nerf the Sandman for countering Heavy with stun and yet gave Pyros a medic-less uber and kritzkrieg.
valve just always wanted to keep pyro in a perpetual new-player-friendly hell, since it was his entire character concept and they were never able to move past it
nerf all combos, nerf anything that actually takes skill to learn, just W+M1 all the way, this is how the game is intended to be played
The sandman was nerfed because it inconvenienced soldier and demo.
Using it against a heavy is just moronic.
Disagree. I found Sandman an effective way to force a heavy to turn and run.
razorback is extremely shit
just sap the sentry before headshotting the sniper
Razorback is probably the most moronic item in the hole game, a sniper with it close to a sentry is basically invincible a close range, jarate wouldn't be a problem if the bushwaka did not exist
I did not play TF2 in release days but I asume first snipers mains complain like b***hes for being too weak to close range when that was the point of the class and unfortunately valve listen to them
Well actually that's the funny thing, the razorback DOES exchange your close range survivability to maybe get a bit lucky and get a crit swing on a spy.
The issue now however, is that a sniper is at zero risk of getting shot to death by a spy because 90% of them cheat and will instantly ratchet to the side and get a totally unbalanced quickscope sniper is SOOOOO broken guise.
Also sticking a sentry next to a sniper is just dogshit placement.
>exchange your close range survivability to cancel spy
Thats other reason I think the razorback is moronic
>90% of them cheat
There's cheaters I agree but algo homosexuals who play nothing but sniper and has like 5000 hours in OSU and a butt plug in their asses, the only way to combat this is nerfing the class
>SMG
you don't need a lot of experience to realize that is the superior option for secondary, but still jarate allows a lot of benefits for literally and nothing of skill required and that's why a item like the bushwaka is another moronic option
I have see a lot of spies getting fricked by a sentry immediately they fail a stab on an sniper not all maps allow this but happens
>If you play for hinki dinki hours you just act the same as someone playing with an aim bot and esp!
What I was trying to say is if the cheaters weren't a problem people will still complain
Yes, and what you said is moronic, there isn't an arbitrary amount of time playing TF2 where you start seeing people through walls or automatically calling spy when one uncloaks two rooms away from you.
>sniper with it close to a sentry
the thing is on most maps this just doesn't happen
>jarate wouldn't be a problem if the bushwaka did not exist
here's a little secret, bushwaka combo is actually not good because when you sacrifice your SMG which is great to deal with shit like scouts which become a far more pressing issue for you than spies when you get to a certain level of skill as sniper
I remember when Razorback was first announced. and it sticks in my mind as one of the big warning signs that idiots were in charge of the game. Valve were so god damn lucky that moments after Razorback's announcement they had the big reveal that the sniper update was actually the sniper vs spy update because it distracted from what a dumb idea razorback was.
I think they were just worried about Spy turning out to be too OP at the time so they put alot of counter measures against him in the game.
If only they knew
Not only could soldier and demoman completely shut spy out by just blastjumping to a location inaccessible to him. But even to this day it's still possible for them to do that, with other classes including the engineer who spy is meant to counter joining them. Valve really do have the weirdest ideas of balance.
: I don't like area denial classes and think that I should be able to just stand around in open areas with zero consequences.
>Turn a corner
>Head disappears
yeah.... So open
>Translation: I'm just bad at the game
>think I will miss random crits if they're gone
>play on sever with random crits disabled
>realize it's more fun, don't miss them for a second
crits have overstayed their welcome
>he doesn't know the enjoyment of wiping the floor with the entire enemy team because you know how to maximise your random crits
Remember that both of them Will never received deserved balance patches for life
>sniper
>no natural hardcounters
why do you think that there was an update called "Sniper vs. Spy"?
Spies are actually extremely underpowered for two reasons:
1. Their cloak is fricking loud. I've had people accuse me of hacking because they cannot understand how easy it is to just hear their cloak and then turn around to beat their ass. This is mitigated somewhat by disguises, which leads us to...
2. Spy disguises suck. You can do nothing to actually blend in and spychecking is as easy as just running up to somoene and seeing if you pass through them or not. So most spies do not rely on their disguise, but instead their cloak, which leads us back to problem 1.
The solution for me is to buff the disguise so it is more reliable, preferably by allowing spies to fake shoot. Imagine how much better a medic disguise could be if you could pretend to heal someone or even another disguised spy.
spy pros should drop the normal watch and use the dead ringer
Dead ringer is good for aggressive play, but it's still loud as frick.
>then turn around to beat their ass
are they decloaking right behind you or something?
I have no idea, could be a ways down the hall. I just hear the sound, and there they are.
>spies are underpowered
they can kill every class in the game by stabbing them in the face and then they can fake their own death to become invisible right after they get the face stab. they dont need a buff
That argument holds no weight when any moderately experienced player can sniff out a spy, even while cloaked.
You're not supposed to go Rambo and try to solo the enemy team. If you attack them at the same time as your team, they will struggle to be able to focus on both them and you.
Nobody said anything about ramboing anyone. The problem is spy disguises are underpowered and you can do nothing to convince anyone you are genuine. It makes several of the disguises pointless (you'll never see a spy medic or sniper for this reason).
>allowing spies to fake shoot
Then Spy becomes OP, because the only way to tell if someone’s a Spy or not would be to either bump into them or have a schizophrenic Pyro who spychecks literally everything all the time.
So business as usual?
true, in TF2 I would say demo is the most OP class
a good demo can lay waste to the entire enemy team by himself, especially if he's uber
I think this type of infographics is made by people who only play fricking Dustbowl and 2Fort
You can ruin sniper's day on any map with decent flank routes with 6 out of 9 classes
>No natural hardcounters
It's called "Teamwork" you zoomer cuck.
Demoman takes the most skill of any class
I've noticed the opposite. Once you get the aiming and timings down, Demos are pretty braindead. An airblast pyro confuses them utterly.
Mid range sticky spam is easily counter by simply rushing him down, then you gotta land your pipes which is pretty damn hard. The brain power needed to use stickies in all situations successfully is no joke. Only in maps like dustbowl do I feel that demoman is truly overpowered
>Mid range sticky spam is easily counter by simply rushing him down
thats when you pull out the pan and pray for a crit.
Using stickies does take getting used to i admit. The gameplay loop is alot slower than like solider or pyro
once you get the timing down it isnt
even if you cant aim pills, the ability to just shoot over a hill and spam stickies is indispensable
>mfw 3 of my fav ships match the skill requirement separation of that pic
mfw I am not a shipping homosexual for tf2
feelsGM
why did you use "mfw" when you didn't even put a pic you moronic newbie Black person
Sniper isn't bad, he just has too many items based around completely negating his downsides.
Random crit aren't bad. I don't have any qualifiers for this one, crits should stay.
which itens you mean? if you mean the razorback it's worthless
I'm sorry, what fricking items?
>Razorback?
just use your revolver moron
>Pre-nerf Darwin?
just don't try to sniper duel
>Post-nerf Darwin?
just W+M1 them as you would usually do
>Cozy Camper?
Do you seriously use it outside of MvM?
And Jarate+Bushwacka is just a pissbaby sniper tool for anyone who doesn't know how to use your SMG
This. I always laugh at people who make statements like
because the reality is stock sniper weapons are arguably better than his unlocks, with the possible exception of the melee unlocks.
I think it's fricked up you're actually playing tf2 in 2024.
my theory about sniper being a problem is the huge increase in gamers who cheat now
I have a suspicion that botmakers are partially influenced by wanting Valve to remove sniper.
Nah that's just incel dane trying to drive people to his servers and get administration privileges over valve casual
It's a few parties
>Community server owners who want to drive people away from Valve servers
>Trannies who got super butthurt (iirc this was the first wave of "modern" bots)
>People who legitimately hate TF2 for one reason or another
>Scriptkiddies evolved.
Random crits being bad was an opinion back in 2007 pushed by compgays. The general public has always nodded, said "naruhodo," and proceeded to ignore them, because they're fun - and the game is balanced around them.
Sniper being OP also goes back to 2007 - except the only people who thought so was Valve. Neither casuals nor compgays thought Sniper was OP. Even when pubstars would shit on a server of casuals with it, no one thought it was unbalanced, they just recognized that guy as being really good (or aimbotting). But now, for some reason, the dumb masses have turned and decided Sniper is busted even though literally nothing has changed. The game hasn't changed in any real way in over a decade, but just in the past couple years, "Sniper has become OP."
The only thing I can think of is that zoomers are moronic and getting mad at bots, and blaming the class instead of realizing the guy shitting on you is just cheating.
I remember one time, on the ESL forums, some compgays used some rigorous AI testing to try and figure out what the technically strongest class was, and everyone thought Sniper would win (because aimbotting), but actually Scout did. I don't remember the details and have no idea how to search for it, though. But if Sniper was actually OP, competitive would just be 6 Snipers vs. 6 Snipers. Sniper, however, is only the 5th most common pick. It's considered the most popular non-standard pick.
Yeah, the "sniper has always been hated and OP" is 100% revisionism. I recall dozens of matches where shitters would scream at each other over having too many snipers and there are plenty of "old" TF2 videos where snipers were treated as free kills. Sniper being called overpowered is a thing from like 2016.
the bot shit is pretty much the only reason you see people claiming sniper is op, any actual match against real people its rare for there to be a sniper affecting the otucome, and its so rare for a god tier sniper to actually shut down any map like you see gays claim that you are better off getting a golden pan, and in that scenario it will certainly apply far more to god tier soldier, demo, and socut mains
It's mostly payload that I find snipers that just shut down servers.
Its pretty common for snipers to shut down maps, thats why bots typically are snipers and not some shit like scout
Scouts are usually hackers instead.
true
>Random crits being bad was an opinion back in 2007 pushed by compgays. The general public has always nodded, said "naruhodo," and proceeded to ignore them, because they're fun
Nothing says "I'm a homosexual" louder than sad attempts to distort reality. That or random weeb-typing. Many people, casuals and sweaters alike, have hated random crits (and random bullet spread) since release which is why no-crit servers and votes have existed for just as long.
>Sniper being OP also goes back to 2007 - except the only people who thought so was Valve.
People have also complained about quick-scopes since release, again. The fact that 99% of bots are purely quick-scoping sniper AIs that never charge their shots yet are still devastating showcases how moronic quick-scopes are.
>The only thing I can think of is that zoomers are moronic and getting mad at bots, and blaming the class instead of realizing the guy shitting on you is just cheating.
Yeah, given how much of your post consists of pure bullshit I'm not surprised that you can't think of very much when it comes to things you don't agree with. Now you're actually saying that good snipers who solo carry casual games are all just cheating. Lmao.
inb4 "u-ur a zoomer!!" (I'm not, you're a gay though).
>But if Sniper was actually OP, competitive would just be 6 Snipers vs. 6 Snipers.
Yeah class limits don't exist moron, but that aside didn't you start your post with saying that the opinions of compgays don't matter? Le fricking mao. Rofl even.
But ignoring this random 180 you made, sure sniper is totally fine in 6v6 because it's almost like there's a difference between a sniper having a wall of 20+ teammates creating space for him vs only 5 people trying to prevent (pro)roamers from getting to him consistently. Great point, moron.
Quick-scopes are too strong in competent hands. Inverted amby nerf could also be justified. Fall down the next flight of stairs, mutt.
you're a zoomer
>weeb-typing
you need to go back
>sad attempts to distort reality
I'm not. I've been playing since 2009 and have over 6000 hours. Yes, there has always been people who hate random crits. There have always been people who hate Medic. There have always been people who hate Payload. There have always been people who hate hats. There have always been people who hate anything - that says absolutely nothing about the norm. The norm was never to hate random crits. It was a minority who stayed in their ghetto.
>People have also complained about quick-scopes
I'm sure someone has. The only people I know who complained about them complained about them being too slow.
>The fact that 99% of bots are purely quick-scoping sniper AIs that never charge their shots yet are still devastating showcases how moronic quick-scopes are
No. A bot doing something is not an argument for anything.
>you're actually saying that good snipers who solo carry casual games are all just cheating
No.
>Yeah class limits don't exist moron
They don't on Sniper. And yet rollout doesn't include Sniper.
>didn't you start your post with saying that the opinions of compgays don't matter?
Them alone don't matter, yes.
>Le fricking mao. Rofl even.
Look at how absolutely mad this 10-year old is.
>20+ teammates
Oh, so you don't even play TF2.
>only 5 people trying to prevent (pro)roamers from getting to him
This is a non-argument. Both teams have the same number of players. It doesn't matter if there's 5 or 20. A full server should actually be scarier, because when a Sniper kills someone, the others are alerted to his presence and can track him down. One Sniper can't take on everyone. A smaller server is safer for him because he can reposition after every kill and he's less likely to accidentally run into enemies.
>Quick-scopes are too strong in competent hands
Which is why Sniper is banned in comp!
Except he's not, he's mid.
>mutt
Posting a picture of your family real quick.
Random crits are fine, just don't try and justify them in a balance sort of way. The argument "Well it lets alejandro.perez.2012 get kills from McPubstomper" when it rewards pupstompers more since the chance goes up for damage done. Random crits just are.
As for Sniper, the biggest problem is how oppressive a really good sniper is on modern maps. A lot of maps are really big and really open to enable soldiers and other roaming classes to take advantage of space, but the problem is more open areas = more spots a sniper can be perched on to defend key areas. There are some ridiculously bad sightlines in the game to the point where the kill cam just instantly snaps to them instead of the transitional movement it usually does.
What is this meme about hating snipers I keep seeing nowadays?
Did they get buffed or something?
It's a combination of super sweaty snipers being able to shut down servers, bots and horrific map layouts that enable long uninterupted sightlines.
Also a lot of maps have zero verticality or alternate routes, so snipers are impossible to flank. They can just zoom down a hallway and lock it down as if they were a turret.
If only there was a class designed to get through sightlines undetected and deal with classes who tend to tunnelvision on sightlines or their allies
Useless when poor map design has a single narrow chokepoint. Good luck getting a spy through the fricking frontlines.
Most maps that have uninterupted sightlines are also quite narrow in terms of areas that players walk through as well, meaning you will bump into someone on the way as a spy.
spy can't get through a tiny chokepoint door that is constantly filled with people fighting consistently (some maps are unironically like this)
even if they do there's no guarantee they'll kill the sniper, because if the sniper isn't deaf they'll hear the watch
even if the spy DID kill the sniper, it took them several respawns and a ton of effort and adding literally nothing else to the fight, meanwhile the sniper will be back in 20 seconds tops and had to put no effort to be in a utterly dominant position
this is obviously talking about an ideal sniper situation, most maps aren't this bad and sometimes the sniper's teams just sucks even if they are gods so they can't be protected and can't kill a whole team before they themselves get killed
>not a single thread about tf2 balancing bullshit no less than 3 years ago
>threads died like they were nothing
>now threads are automated by /vg/niglets and people who played after 2016 or those with under 4k hours
seems the theory of the genepool replacing each other every 3 years or so is quite true, hopefully casual dies and community servers get flooded then die in the process with botBlack folk plus the other mentally ill advocates that're here.
The biggest npc behavior on this game is playing it
>posts from bizzaro Ganker
Sniper is fine, legit skill issue.
Random crits are bad but they wouldn't be bad if the game had a decent comp mode.
>pretending people disliking random crits is something new invented by Uncle Dane.
People have complained about random crits for the majority of this games life.
>literally all that dane contributed to the discussion was some batshit moronic desire to have the game be an esport
>literally every single talking point he took from other people, all he did was compile them together
>now there's a convenient scapegoat if someone disagrees with you about the subject matter, even if you'd held the opinion since fricking 2007
threads are never productive when this shit gets brought up specifically because of him.
I don't really care for Dane himself but I absolutely hate those uncletopia fricktards who treat it like a gospel
they're like competitive wanna-bes who had never actually played competitive TF2 so they don't understand why it is the way it is while at the same time they remove all the casual fun from TF2
>waaah you can't have random crits
>waaah you need to have a class limit
>waaah you can't use your custom sprays
>waaah you are going to play on a map pool of like 5 maps despite us trying to claim that it's not like that
seriously, frick those people and especially some that become small time youtubers as of late and carry on these bad takes
>now there's a convenient scapegoat if someone disagrees with you about the subject matter
Well maybe if it wasn't really fricking obvious where you got your opinions from people wouldn't point it out.
>even if you'd held the same opinion since fricking 2007
We went through this in the whole "Vanilla No Crit Hardcore super real oldhomosexual servers in 2014" most of you homosexuals either started in 2013 if you're being generously honest, or have bought accounts which started happening when you morons started screaming and crying about people TOTALLY FOR REAL thinking all the unlocks are SUPER OVERPOWERED, because a spy tricked you with the dead ringer one time.
>Strawman, Strawman, Strawman, ad hominem, appeal to authority
Is this all pro-crit gays can muster?
Crits are fun
>green text
Sc**ts live for random crits, what the frick is this gif implying?
>WAAAH YOU DIDN'T TREAT IT LIKE A DEBATE WHY AREN'T YOU PRETENDING I'M BEING HONEST
This is Ganker, I've been on this dumb website for the past 17 years.
I'm under no obligation to not notice patterns because it's inconvenient for you.
>ad hominem, appeal to authority
thanks for consneeding.
I'm not even going to pretend that random crits make the game somehow more fair for the new players or whatever their justification was, I just like to see people randomly blow up to a big number they can't avoid because it's so damn satisfying
some of you just won't understand it
anon 2013 was 11 years ago give it a rest
Most genuine oldgays had probably left TF2 around the time Jerma and Star had left the scene, not after the Jungle Inferno
I don't care if it's been 11 years.
The same kinds of people do the same kinds of things and I will still notice it.
Just stop playing this garbage game. Move on with everyone else to Overwatch. It's a far better experience.
>he still shills a dead game in 2024
I think someone had left an old bot running since 2016
Seethe. TF2 is dead, Overwatch is still getting content.
>injection of chinks from their own servers after Blizzard got fricked over by the CCP onto steam and showing them in the steam charts is somehow a positive reflection of the overwatch player counts
if Overwatch had ever entered a maintenance mode like TF2 does it would be dead in under a month
Overwatch was, is, and will continue to be garbage with no soul.
Anon, Blizzard managed to make bliizdrones regret their overwatch 2 purchase in under a year.
No it didn't. Overwatch 2 is free.
random crits are fair and balanced
yeah i never understood why people who play TF2 give a shit about any of this. TF2 is obviously just a fun party game not to be taken too seriously. why don't they play counter strike or quake live if they want a fair, competitive experience instead? makes no sense to me to think and act this way.
>Just because
So these are the brainlets we are dealing with
is le bad becaue he just is, ok?
crits are le bad because they just are, ok?
>somehow had become the prevalent voices in the TF2 community mostly propagated by those uncletopia fricks
since when were either of these magically new takes?
they aren't
but before that they would just be scoffed and ignored now they're like front a centre of "balance" discussion
They're only "not new" because it's been so physically long since Jungle Inferno and Meet Your Match fricked up the game.
In terms of actual game paradigms tf2 has sort of hit this wall where discussions about it are held hostage in this weird limbo where Comp morons and Youtubers got valve to frick up the game and communities that rejected them, it's the very most modern state of tf2, but it's been stuck like this for the past 10 years because organic sub communities more or less can't exist without getting trashed by a handful of morons on youtube without completely escaping to other niches entirely, like the gmod horror scene.
Is it me or have the bots gotten dumber now? Like, beforehand bots would choke out entire servers and move in erratic patterns but now there's like 3 of them at a time and 2 of them are stuck in spawn jumping in place.
people using cheap/free bots rather then the good ones.
I genuinely think that these bot makers had moved past simple AI+aimbot and are actually trying to do machine learning on these bots, hence they look "more stupid" i.e. act less than obvious bots
last week while playing Two Cities we had 2 bots in our team, Engineer and Scout, we haven't realised that they're actually bots until Wave 3 when they weren't responding after I had asked Engineer to move his dispenser slightly since it was positioned incorrectly (was easier to destroy by bots)
I dont think its machine learning and just cheap hosters but I have noticed alot of non-sniper bots lately.
I figure its just how bots work, but I find it funny that classes like sniper and heavy are voted out immediately as the tracking makes them broke, whereas classes like bot scout, pyro and spy go almost entirely unnoticed.
>Why does the long range class dominate if you don't restrict range in some way.
For the same reasons demo dominates if you make the map only narrow choke points.
Demoman is the only fun I can still feel from video games anymore
If sniper at low charge had sweet spots like battlefield snipers do i think the problem would be solved. in battlefield snipers cant kill you with 1 shot unless you are in their critical range and every sniper has a critical range. sniper should function similarly so they have to choose between quick scoping with short range rifles, having to hard scope for long range headshots, or choosing a long range rifle that can pop 150s from a mile away with no crits at close range.
Right now the problem is that theres not really a way for the majority of classes to interact with snipers that hold down a sight line besides hoping they miss. even when you get into close combat and disable this advantage AKA interact with the sniper, they can shit out 150 damage with a good reaction speed, more than a direct hit rocket.
giving them a sweet spot that expands as they charge wont solve interactivity or quick scoping but it limits the sniper to only having 1 of these advantages at a time.
All I know is that the game was much more fun when the item servers went down and I didn't need to second guess if I actually killed that spy or not.
"ah i frickin died to this sniper at spawn"
"shouldnt have been there moron"
"but i was on the payload"
You don't have to live on the payload. Back in the day, some one explained to me that I'm actually playing wrong by focusing on the payload. Why? Well, because there's MORE to the map than a payload.
If you see an Engineer setting up around the corner of the payload, you'd move ahead to stop that. Or, if you see a spy slinking away behind you, someone's going to try and stop him. But the sniper? Everyone turns into "IDK, I have to push the payload. Can't stop the sniper because someone has to push this thing". Pathetic.
"go stop the sniper"
"what do you mean stop the sniper?"
"g-go kill him or something man I don't know"
"he's all the way back past their sentry nest"
"frick man then just uh wait for spy to get him or some shit"
"spy has been dead on cooldown the last twenty minutes"
>"what do you mean stop the sniper?"
>"g-go kill him or something man I don't know"
>"he's all the way back past their sentry nest"
>Can we uber to beat their sentries?
>Yes.
>Will we uber to stop their sentries?
>No.
The problem could be solved, but no one will bother to solve it. Also, the sniper isn't 100% accurate, you sound like an Overwatch player if you're going to pretend the sniper will kill the medic, and the soldier and demo shooting the sentreis, and the spy flanking him, and what not.
If his TEAM is beating yours like that, accept the fact that you're losing to his TEAM.
>Can we uber to stop their sentries?
>Yes.
>Will we uber to stop their sentries?
>No.
Story of every lobby
Not for me; I play Medic.
>Can we uber to stop their sentries
>Sure
>*topfrag carrying soldier switches to medic and proceeds to pocket the f2p heavy*
Medics and ubers are like the rats putting a belled collar around a cat. Everyone suggests it, but who will do it? Hmmm, why not the person that suggests it?
Medic is the most actual fun I had with TF2. If you acually learn him hes extremely combat capable in mid-long range chokepoints. You can edge sentries and 1 needlegun clip can take out a lvl3 sentry. Stock bonesaw has the highest crit rate in the game.
Mic up and you are pretty much team captian in pubs and can talk shit to anyone.
>Mic up and you are pretty much team captian in pubs and can talk shit to anyone.
lol i do this
>it's not a problem because I have a really weird idea of enjoyment that causes me to never experience this problem
If fun to play medic but only when is at least 3 competent players that will not waste uber
give the medic his own personal bodyguards/hitmen and suddenly playing him doesn't feel so much like a chore
I no longer respect most arguments against the sniper. For too long, I've seen people complain about the sniper while literally doing nothing to stop him and not bothering to learn how to counter him. Sniper complaints aren't valid, and I'd be sure to ignore them if I ever got to design a sniper character.
>For too long, I've seen people complain about the sniper while literally doing nothing to stop him and not bothering to learn how to counter him
Probably because you can’t counter Sniper for 6.5 of the 8 other classes (Scout varies depending on map and if other team has an Engineer). That’s the issue.
And don’t give me that bullshit of “[thing] has counters, you just gotta hope your opponent fricks up!”. I spend plenty of time on /vp/ and hear that constantly.
>Probably because you can’t counter Sniper for 6.5 of the 8 other classes (Scout varies depending on map and if other team has an Engineer). That’s the issue.
I don't agree. I don't have an issue with the answer being mirror to guy (and learn to play him) or pick one of his few counters. A bad sniper is like having one less teammate, and if the upside to that isn't that he's really strong or has few counters, then what's the point?
>And don’t give me that bullshit of “[thing] has counters, you just gotta hope your opponent fricks up!”.
If you're going to do the "What's 2 + 2, and don't say 4! give me a real answer!" shit then I doubt you're willing to listen to others in the first place.
>you can’t counter Sniper for 6.5 of the 8 other classes
>any soldier that knows how to rocket jump without getting hit can kill him
>any demoman that knows how to sticky jump without getting hit can kill him
>spy
>scout
>just be a better sniper and kill him yourself lol
all people who complain about the sniper fall into the same theme of having a skill issue
you must have been fighting the shittiest snipers known to mankind lmao
>sniper is OP
then play on no sniper servers
>random cri-
sigh
Who is worse: Danegays or Emporiumgays?
>Venn diagram but it's just barely not a circle
>People seething about snipers both in games and irl since time immemorial.
It is funny to me.
>pop battalions back up
>all crits are negated
>take 33 damage from quickscopes for the next 6 seconds
>rocket jump and shit on their face
snipers KNEEL to their soldier superiors
Sniper is bad because they nerfed the danger shield for compgays, and made it neg the pyro class (that compgays never play as)
they nerfed danger shield because it was a moronic secondary that forced you into having a sniper duel and equipping it yourself if you were already playing sniper
there quite literally there wasn't a single weapon in the entire game that was like this and the fact we had to wait this long for it to be nerfed is an outrage in itself
T. compgay
If you lost to a sniper due to his danger shield, he probably would have killed you regardless
>Literally only effective against other snipers
>Completely eliminating long range harassment from pyros is a "nerf"
How embarrassing is it to be proven wrong by the post before you own
>sniper mains in a nutshell
Okay, what's your suggested nerf?
>hurr damage fall off for long range weapon
>hurr absurd charge up time
>hurr remove sniper entirely
>whats your suggested nerf
>no not that, that doesnt count
this thread is just full of sniper player seethe
>what? my nerfs make no sense for a long range class that revolves around clicking people to death? you are the unreasonable one
Go back to Quake if it bothers you so much.
Make it so whenever Sniper scopes in a laser sight appears. It is that simple. This way you will know when a Sniper is aiming his sights down somewhere, and whenever you don't see the laser you'll be more at ease thus increasing your fun.
My problem with Sniper is that he gives anxiety/uneasiness around choke points. Most people don't even realize it until they play a match without a Sniper where they are way more relaxed than usual.
anon if you have any decent amount of hours in this game and can't see a big blue/red dot on the wall already it's your fricking problem
>Most people don't even realize it until they play a match without a Sniper where they are way more relaxed than usual.
no normal people just ignore it until they see an actual sniper
One of the first things you learn as a sniper is hide your dot.
you can't even see the dot half the time anyway.
Yes to all three
Reverse damage falloff more like it. The sniper rifle should not be as effective at close range than at long range.
making it that sniper cannot the 50 damage potshots against whoever is close to him is somehow going to fix him
>inb4 crybabies complain about quickscopes
it's literally a non issue, if you know how to play and utilise your movement you won't ever fall for it
it's literally the same thing as with learning how to avoid stairstabs and trickstabs
learn the fricking game
>sandman nerfed because of heavy not sniper
>caber nerfed because of medic not sniper
>ambassador nerfed because it's just stupid
you fricking moron, it was precisely bad because it made a sniper duel a stupid game of chicken instead of a reflex test, who cares that I can quickscope him in under a second if they'll always be left alive
it was a single best nerf in the entire game
If you're right, then it wouldn't have been a problem in the fist place if sniper wasn't the only counter to sniper
There was a video by Zesty that showed certain weapons were really too good with fixed spread like the shortstop which spread in a triangle instead of a circle.
I use LMAOBox so I can see where Spies and Snipers are at all times. Also to know when to engage and when to run. I also modded the Spy decloak sound into a loud alarm so I never betray the fact that I'm hacking. I just happen to turn up and ruin their day. It's great.
>I'm bad at the game
Ok
You dropped your crown, king.
>sandman nerfed because of heavy
sandman was a bullshit design in the first place
>slow moving projectile that completely disables your ability to fight back but on a melee so scout still gets a primary and madmilk
Literally just don't continue walking in a straight line when you hear the loudest most distinct sound in the game.
sniper is bad because he has shit interactivity with the rest of the classes, zoomer tourist
You can't just ignore the reasons people have these opinions and pretend they don't exist.
>c-can't you just ignore the bad things around you and enjoy the "Product TM"
Certainly would if the same people won't run all the community servers in the future
Bro? TF2? By Valve Software? I don't care about OW, I get that it's impossible to talk about on Ganker or /vg/ but uh, that's not my problem.
>6842
>wojak
>user pass
Jesus
Frick you I like it
Arena Respawn was better
>Arena Respawn
So...koth?
sort of, but you only respawned if your team did good
>Arena was so bad so that the only guy who had ever liked it created player destruction mode
Speaking of, player destruction should be a separate game mode in the casual list like the payload race
Perks was fun this last Halloween
it was alright, shame the perks sucked
random crits are fair but unbalanced
i actually think they need a buff for certain classes
is le bad becaue he just is, ok?
he's bad because hes a long range class in a game of close to mid range damage dealers
how do people not get this? even with no sniper charge he can also kill over half the fricking cast just by looking at them. stop defending this garbage out of place shit and just play csgo if you wanna play sniper
>he doesn't understand that sniper enforces constant movement and prevents unbreakable mass turtling of engineers impossible to break with a single uber
you'll always be secondaries
>mass turtling of engineers impossible to break with a single uber
sounds like you suck at demoman or lack a direct hit soldier then
seems more like a team issue then bad game design like with sniper where the only real logical way to counter him is another fricking sniper
>the only real logical way to counter him is another fricking sniper
stop playing 2fort then
how does sniper prevent huge engineer nests?
in a way that it's impossible to build one where it isn't surrounded by walls from at least three sides because of sniper
TF2 is a party game first and foremost. It's the Smash Bros of FPS and anyone who claims either are competitive is immediate confirmed moronic.
over 100k just on one of my rifles, just learn how to strafe idiots
Since when is a Strange Machina $125+? Swear it was cheap for years.
Wasn't it from one of those salvaged crates? Rare crate that hasn't dropped in years + popular weapon on a popular class = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bEZQ00OOxY