So is a large dex a good thing or bad thing?
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So is a large dex a good thing or bad thing?
So is a large dex a good thing or bad thing?
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300-400 is the sweetspot.
Agree. 400 is nearly perfect for a main series game.
PLA made it work with 242, but PLA feels bigger because things like trade evolutions are accessible without trading and there are no version exclusives. In fact, I would argue that PLA has the perfect Dex because it is the only game where I can get all 242 on a single player ID.
I would agree but only getting access to a single A-Vulpix pissed me of to no end. Sure I could fill up the dex, but the living dex would always be missing a mon.
What game has more than 400 in its regional dex?
Kalos
Kalos; had 450~ across three separate sets of 150, and given it only hit 721 at the time with no more than 80 new Pokemon, that's an insane quantity.
400 has been the standard since USUM, and while it feels smaller the more species get added over the years, it really is one of the best numbers for a regional dex right now.
Might hit 500 in gen X depending on how many new ones get added, or how big they make the region.
>everything must belong to extreme polarities, there is no such thing as nuance, compromise, or middle ground
most intelligent discussion on Ganker.
That's been the internet in general for the past half a decade.
Hoenn did it right, 200 Pokemon available, but all new Pokemon until after the first gym.
This
Hoenn helps establish itself as its own thing by front-loading the new mons early.Afterwards it does a pretty good job of mixing new and old mons. A number of those old mons are also in the Safari Zone, where having mons that feel like they're from another region is a positive.
It also helps that certain types are basically locked to new mons. If you want a Dark type, there's no Gen 2 mons. Ice? Ghost? Same deal, nothing from Gen 1/2. Dragon? The only option outside of Gen 3 mons is Kingdra, which needs a trade.
>Gen 1 dex = Perfect
>Gen 2 dex = Perfect
>Gen 3 dex = Unfocused
>Gen 4 dex = Deeply flawed until postgame
>Gen 5 dex = Poorly designed, with no Gen 1-4 mons to balance out
>Gen 6 dex = Bloated
>Gen 7 dex = Bloated
>Gen 8 dex = Bloated
>Gen 9 dex = Bloated
not trying to flamewar but what did Gen 1 do better than 5 when they have roughly the same number of mons in the campaign?
It's not like Kanto isn't packed with Rattatas, Pidgeys, Zubats, & Spearows.
not him and I actually like gen 5 a lot but gen 5 has an issue with a lot of the cooler/good mons have pre evos catchable only just before the e4 at like roughly late 30s early 40s but then also don't evolve until mid 50s early 60s making them very annoying to use if you want to have one of them for the finale and compounds really hard if you like multiple of them. Like I did my last BW1 run before bank shuts down recently and I wanted Mienshao, Bisharp, Braviary on my team for the finale but trying to level their pre evos around victory road/e4 was a real pain in the ass
The Kanto designs are good. The Unova designs are bad.
Gen 2 dex is perfect as it includes all mons from both Gens. Literally perfect.
Gen 3 dex is a mish mash of Gen 1, 2 and 3 mons with no coherence.
Seethe harder.
>Gen 2 dex is perfect as it includes all mons from both Gens
and stuffs a ton of them, including big hitter new mons into the postgame Kanto, parts of Johto just feel like I'm literally playing a Kanto reskin for this reason.
See
Stop lying.
>Gen 3 dex is a mish mash of Gen 1, 2 and 3 mons with no coherence.
I don't know man, I live in a tropical country and it really captures that vibe well. If you go through the entire dex the weakest inclusions are Vulpix and Jigglypuff. Maybe Abra.
The monsters are available at an even pace, which means that a reasonably high number are only available in the very late game.
Including some of the best.
>what did Gen 1 do better than 5
designs
Only after sugimori came in and fixed them all. Gen 5s designs still look better than most of the dogshit gen 1 sprites.
>Gen 5s designs still look better than most of the dogshit gen 1 sprites
You wish. I will take anything, even the shitty 3d models over the laziest and most garbage attempt at animating 2d sprites I have ever seen on my life.
>the laziest and most garbage attempt at animating 2d sprites I have ever seen on my life.
but enough about emerald
>what did Gen 1 do better than 5
Original of everything will always be better because the characters are simple imaginative and the creators had no stress making them. They created something brand new and built around it. I'm honestly curious what the very first pokemon Satoshi created was of the original 151
Rhydon.
Non linearity. Your options open up considerably after exiting Cerulean, and even more after Rock Tunnel.
The pace in GB games is a lot faster due to simpler animations, making the time spent in routes and caves comparatively shorter while the routes themselves feel larger. If 10 battles take 10 minutes in gen 1, the same 10 battles take 15 minutes in gen 5 and 20 minutes in gen 4. Neither the actual times nor the exact ratios are accurate here, I just want to illustrate why an adventure can feel repetitive when extended over a longer timeframe. If you play for 15 minutes and see only 3 different pokemon because you haven't advanced to the next route yet, it's gonna feel more boring than if you have the same issue in 10 minutes, but in the 11th minute you make it to the next route and find something different.
Gen 5 actually has less when you consider the fact that it has way more legendary bloat
well if we are strictly speaking, gen 1 has the caveat of pseudo free roam once you get the bike and give the border guards a bottle of water to share. gen 5 is known as the linear generation for a reason. As to why I personally dislike it, BW2 did try to remedy it, but adding extra spots doesn't stop the fact the game is still point A to B until you reach the end. Plus most of the mons I want on my team are stuck in the last half of the game and ruins some of my fun is all. Gen 3 imo had the best world layout from a traversal standpoint, you can always loop back somehow, meteor falls loops back to rustboro. Once you get rock smash you open mauville to rustboro . Surf can get you from slateport to oldedale (for whatever reason you'd want to) and surf unlocks the east from mauville. and once you get fly it doesn't matter.
Kys genwunner
>Gen 2 dex = Perfect
>Gen 3 dex = Unfocused
Shut up you fricking moron
>gen 2 dex = perfect
>cries about gen 5 being poorly designed because it only introduced 150 brand new pokemon but didn't include the same ones from the previous games
>cries about all gens onwards being bloated
Actually frick you, you massive fricking homosexual. You're the problem.
>Gen 2
>perfect
Thanks, I needed a good laugh.
>Gen 2 dex = Perfect
>Gen 2 dex = perfect
>The same gen you literally couldn't get a new gen 2 Mon in the new region
I love gen 2, but not being able to catch Houndour and murkrow until the Kanto half of the game was fricking moronic.
>Gen 2 = Perfect
lmao
this can't be serious, Johto's dex is mid as frick
Gen 3 is like the best dex in the series
Too many single stage shitmons
Also unlike the Sinnoh dex the Hoenn dex includes post game locked mons and event locked mythicals so it’s smaller than Platinum and actually not that much bigger than DP
Applies to Kanto and Unova too actually, DP is bigger than these
What is a shitmon?
Mons that you can’t rely on for the late game without overleveling them
There's not a single pokemon in Hoenn that fits that description.
You’re talking to someone who tried to use Sableye and Castform in Hoenn
Yes there is
You're just bad and stupid if that's the case. They're not so much weaker that they need extra levels to beat the game.
Castform is slow, frail and needs a turn of setup to do anything
Sableye has shit stats and no moves
Castform is 70 across the board and learns some of the best moves in series history through TMs. Sableye is resistant or immune to some of the most common attacks and has 75 attack with shadow ball, brick break, fakeout. What do you need for something to not be shit in your eyes?
Gen 3 dex is perfect, gen 2 dex has no identity
dumbass johtoddler
redundant I know
why does /vp/ always seethe whenever sinnoh is mentioned?
>why does /vp/ always seethe
Fixed that for you
the only people who use the moronic "bloated dex" meme complaint are sinnoh fanboys trying to pretend their game is good
why does /vp/ always seethe whenever galar is mentioned?
why does /vp/ always seethe whenever unova is mentioned?
Sinnoh hate is unironically correlated with mental illness
You could argue that actively hating on anything is some form of mental disorder, but Sinnoh haters are something else. They are all terminally online and feel the need to claim that they hate Sinnoh at every chance they get, they build their entire identity around the fact that they hate it.
It’s no wonder a lot of them are part of the pronouns army too
I mean, for god’s sake, look at the two most recurring Sinnoh haters we have on this board. One is a schizo who’s been shitting up the board for literal years and the other is an actual voregay.
I always like it when regions use certain Pokemon really well to characterize the environment, even Pokemon not introduced in that region.
Things like Skarmory at the ash heap route, Meditite dotted all over Sinnoh, Slugma in Fiery Path, Litwick at celestial Tower. We need more of that.
>we need to get rid of the exp share toggle because too many options are a bad thing
>we do need massive dexes every game having too many options is a good thing
Really makes you think.....
Options are a bad thing when they have no reason to be in the game
Indeed, options are bad as proven by the dexcut being necessary. Bloated dexes are bad game design.
200 - 400 for regional.
All for post-game national.
Dexbloat is when the game gives you moronic shit like picrel and says “new wholesome Pokemon!”
More legitimate team building options is a good thing.
There's such a thing as too much. I think Gen 2 and 3 hit a nice balance, especially the availability in 3. Gen 1 and especially DP struggle to have a good pool with only 150-ish Pokemon, there's a reason Platinum expanded the options and Gen 1 originally planned for 190 Pokemon instead (look at how the Oddish/Bellsprout lines are used as mid-game filler). Gen 5 manages to make a 150-ish Pokedex work, but has negative knock-on effects on putting some of the Pokemon in other games since they were designed very specifically for Unova's level curve. On the other hand, B2W2 struggles to make the vast Pokedex work in it's favor (and does mostly by attempting to limit the Pokemon on each route) while the games afterwards just put like a dozen Pokemon on a route without considering much about balance and calling it a day. I will say though, I don't blame the later games for doing that, at a certain point there's too many Pokemon for them to not use. You either make the game way too fricking long, jam Pokemon in the post-game (which no longer exists), put them in something external (the DLCs of modern games accomplish this in a different way), or just swarm the player with options. There's positives and negatives to each approach but I feel like just shoving as many Pokemon as possible in is the "safe" one.
it depends on a lot of factors
firstly: how easily can the pokemon be obtained? platinum's size of 210 is healthy on paper, version exclusives notwithstanding, but a lot of the mons require trading to fully evolve. for someone playing singleplayer, this is a problem. same with johto. 251 pokemon feels like a lot, but between trade evos, stone evos, swarms, and postgame exclusives, it's surprisingly slim pickings.
secondly: how many new pokemon are there? it's nice having your old favorites in a new region, but when people buy a new pokemon game they're going to be looking for new pokemon to use. BW has a dex of 152 new mons, not counting mythicals. this would seem small, except all of the pokemon are brand new so there's plenty of replay value alone in wanting to try everything out. BW2 is in the opposite position. it has a dex of 300 but nothing is new. balancing gen 5 mons with older mons isn't an issue because everything has had their chance to shine in a previous game.
contrast both of these with XY who has an even larger dex of 450 but only 69 new mons, again not counting mythicals. the large dex size is a detriment here, the old completely overshadows the new. frick's sake the aces of both the evil team leader and champion are just megas of older pokemon.
thirdly: how good are the mons? johto and hoenn both have a lot of pokemon that just suck complete dick and nobody in their right mind would use, they don't even count as options when teambuilding.
attached is a tier list of how i think each game's dex stacks up. note that this doesn't correspond to my opinion of each game as a whole, just in this specific department. and i'm excluding the switch gens because i never played them.
>same with johto. 251 pokemon feels like a lot, but between trade evos, stone evos, swarms, and postgame exclusives, it's surprisingly slim pickings.
Stop. Lying.
>Sneasel, a Pokemon you literally cannot get until you're on Mount Silvers doorstep
>Readily Available
>Mount Silver
*Ice Cave, actually. Play the games before you talk shit.
only in crystal...
If you're counting HGSS, then the way the GTS works in that game means that any Pokemon you can easily see can be traded for. Now, there's significant chances it's not there, online is kind of dead even with the DNS exploit, but it's not like Gen 4 trade evo levels of rigamarole. It's like borderline version exclusive level of readily available. If you want it in exactly GS then yeah you're SoL, that's what happens when they're busy finishing the game when they should be debugging it.
>the GTS counts for Pokemon availability
might as well just count transfer mons and trading Pokemon in from other games.
That original chart was literally talking about Crystal (the definitive Johto games). Cope harder.
ok? nowhere does the anon mention he's referring to Crystal, just Johto, and most Johto games don't let you get Sneasel until after the postgame.
People who criticize DP's dex aren't suddenly invalid just because of Platinum.
>all the baby egg mons in 'readily available' and mons like Sneasel also in the same category (literally Crystal)
>hurr durr I dina realise it was crystall hurrrr
Stop blaming your ignorance on everyone else.
>just Johto
Crystal is the finished Johto. It's like saying that Hoenn doesn't have the battle frontier because ruby and sapphire didn't have it.
I'm sure not even a moron like you wouldn't say that battle frontier isn't a hoenn thing.
and yet nobody defends Ruby/Sapphire’s postgame by pointing to Emerald’s battle frontier. Unlike you who continuously pretends Gold/Silver criticism is invalid because of Crystal.
But thats fine, because I know you’re not actually a Johto fan and you’re only here to make bait after bait to occupy yourself from committing suicide.
HGSS are the definitive versions of Johto and everybody knows that. ORAS also got plenty of criticism for not having the battle frontier, and rightfully so.
Crystal is immediately the inferior version for not having Mareep.
Wrong. You morons need to stop pretending Mareep is the only Johto mon, no-one is falling for it. Mareep is a completely average Johto mon and there are FAR better selections.
>5% in Crystal only
here's what Ice Path will be in the majority of the Johto games including your beloved remakes.
ice path you dumb b***h
>hitmontop
>readily available
>readily available if you have Stadium 2
>needing an entirely different console and game
Remorioid or whatever it's called is a swarm encounter you can get before the post game if I remember correctly
nah Johto dex is arguably the worst in the series
>if I put a red cross through some of these, people will think they're unobtainable
No-one here is falling for your BS.
Tell me how do I get Elekid before Kanto
Crystal mystery egg
>RNG egg hatch
By your logic, all encounters that are 50% or lower also shouldn't be counted because that's relying on RNG.
Not really because with wild encounters you can just run around the grass until you get what you want. With the Mystery Egg you only have 1 chance to get what you want until Kanto
>I-I-I-I can't get the mon because *personal inadequacy*
Git gud and stop lying about Johto.
I like how you didn't even list every Johtomon, on top of listing bullshit on par with Munchlax honey trees as 'readily available'
Go on, which Johto mons are missing?
Also notice how every dex thread always turns into everyone seething about Johto. It still stuns me that Johto being the best region can make people seethe so hard.
Half of the "readily available" pokemon aren't readily available.
Yeah. Almost as bad as the people who try to act like Sinnoh has no Fire types.
you do understand most people are referring to DP when they say that, right? we know Platinum addressed it, that's not the point
The frick is Volcanion doing there? I was about to say "oh, is that a meme addition from Luminescent Platinum?" but then noticed the Litwick line wasn't there.
Since when are Chaizard or Typhlosion 'readily available' in DPPt?
You're trying way too hard and it's sad you even made that out of spite, lmfao.
Sorry that your moronation has caused you to seethe
Could you please explain to the class how Charmander, Cyndaquil and Torchic are "readily available" without trading from HGSS (and in Charmander and Torchic's cases, that requires you to be Post-Red in HGSS, which is a weird metric to consider "readily available") or transferring through Pal Park (which is post-National Dex only)?
And if we're counting trade/transfer Pokemon as "readily available", then shouldn't every single Pokemon that isn't natively obtainable Pre-League also be considered "readily available" including the unobtainable Entei and Ho-Oh, who are ALSO "readily available" by trading from HGSS or transferring through Pal Park?
I get the feeling you're autistic.
You're not explaining what "readily available" means by your definition, therefore I see it necessary to point out how strange the terminology is based on MY definition of "readily available".
>Babymons are all locked to Kanto outside of the 1 (one) you get from the Mystery Egg.
>Aipom, pineco, heracross locked to gimmick.
>Bellosom and sunflora locked to stone evo where you need to win the bug contest on a specific day.
>Yanma, dunsparce, snubbull are 1%
>Qwilfish requires super rod
>Teddiursa, sneasel, swinub, delibird, skarmory, phanpy and tyrogue are near the end.
>Hitmontop has moronic evo
Readily available my ass.
In crystal you can get phanpy in the early game before the first gym
>5% encounter in the morning only that runs away
>Mystery egg
Available, git gud
>NOOOO HEADBUTT TREES IS HARDD
Git gud
>NOOOO I HAVE TO WIN BUG CATCHING CONTEST
Git gud
>RRREEEEEEE 1% MONS
Git gud
>Qwilfish requires super rod
Incorrect
>Teddiursa and Phanpy
Literally available before the first badge in Crystal + every Pokemon game ever made has lategame mons
>NOOOOOO I'M TOO moronic TO EVOLVE TYROGUE TO HITMONTOP
Git gud
Git gud
Stop blaming your personal inadequacies on the games. It is your fault that you are struggling with this.
Thank you, seriously how are people on /vp/ too moronic to play a literal Pokemon game, literally whining about basic game mechanics and cool features like the bug catching contest.
>Stop blaming your personal
I'm not the one who suggested the Sinnoh dex requires jumping through hoops while listing requirements that exist in Johto.
I'M TOO moronic TO EVOLVE TYROGUE TO HITMONTOP
No, it's that Hitmontop has an evolution method that was explicitly made to encourage players to buy a guide.
Nowhere does any NPC or flavor text indicate how Tyrogue evolves, you have to discover this buy purchasing a guide and reading it there.
>Nowhere does any NPC or flavor text indicate how Tyrogue evolves
I worked it out myself when I was 9 years old through trial and error. My first Tyrogue evolved into Hitmonchan. I then bred a new Tyrogue again and it evolved into Hitmonlee. Then I worked out the stats caused the change, so I made them even for the third one, and hey presto, Hitmontop. It's not hard.
I'll take shit that literally never happened for five dollars, Alex.
you are a homosexual and a liar
>No argument.
Concession accepted.
My argument is that you're shit at the game
And so are you. Git gud.
Behold: "Readily available"!
how’s that debunk her post
because "readily available" never means "unlikely"
this was debunked
It wasn't, it's a matter of fact that the distribution in Johto is good and almost every Johto mon is available before the postgame. This is not debatable.
>counting babymons that just turn into Kantomons
>counting multiple pokemon of the same line to make the list look bigger
>counting babymons as “new” johtomons when they just evolve into Kanto pokemon
>counting unown at all
>counting multiple pokemon of the same line to make the list seem bigger
Yea this is a max moron list.
The problem with Johto wasn’t the lack of Johtomon, evening ignoring the moron picks on that list, there still are alot of johto options. The problem is so many require you to go way out of your way to get with no ingame way of knowing that ahead of time and are often just worse that other options easier to obtain. Oh man Yanma is a 1% encounter on a optional route and your reward is a shitty bug pokemon that learns mostly normal type moves. Or damn I wonder why no one uses Marill, can’t be because it’s a low level 1% encounter in a cave you barely spend 2 minutes in.
>no Houndoom
>no Tyranitar (only lone pseudo locked to postgame)
>5%> spawns
>only lone pseudo locked to postgame
Hydreigon
Also Salamence is post Gym 8 so extremely lategame
I don't think hydreigon being sort of postgame only because of the BW level curve not being designed with a lot of pokemon's evolution levels in mind for some reason is the same as tyranitar and metagross. You can get hydreigon in BW at the cost of a shit ton of grinding and trivializing the ending sequence because you're 10 levels over the final boss, but larvitar and beldum are unobtainable before the credits roll.
around 450 is the perfect number of mons to have in the dex
but the problem with sinnoh dex isnt the number, but the bloat of flying and water types introduced/included in its dex and the type overlap among so many of its mons that makes it impossible to build a well balanced team
i have never had a problem like this with other games, but with sinnoh, i feel like every time i decide on a few mons, i cant add any more from the dex that would go along with these
even unova's bw dex of just ~150 mons is more balanced across the types
>around 450 is the perfect number of mons to have in the dex
frick no
>bloat
is this the new meme?
it's a valid concern held by Gamefreak as proven by the dexcut, which Switchchads love so very much
That's because the new pokemon created are overlooked and not given a chance to shine. It's a direct result of people crying about not being able to use Pikachu and Charizard before the post game
Why didn't this go into effect after GS then? You couldn't use Charizard period without the Time Machine and Pikachu was Post-League.
Why didn't this go into effect after RS then? You couldn't use Charizard period without buying FRLG and trading and Pikachu was Mid-Hoenn.
Why didn't this go into effect after DP then? You couldn't use Charizard period without transferring from FRLG or buying HGSS (where Charizard is a post-Red Pokemon) and trading.
Why was Unova the straw that broke the camel's back if Charizard and Pikachu's absence are the focal point of why we have bloated dexes when GS was the first offender?
Because Charizard is the stand in for all the old Pokemon you autist.
Then say "homosexuals whined that they couldn't use any gen 1 Pokemon in BW pre-credits" instead of boiling it down to the Golden Children, because referring exclusively to Charizard and Pikachu does a disservice to the less-oft spoken of Pokemon and makes them feel irrelevant despite literally being the focal point of your explanation.
>because referring exclusively to Charizard and Pikachu does a disservice to the less-oft spoken of Pokemon and makes them feel irrelevant
Pokemon aren't real, man.
Then why was there such a big stink about the lack of gen 1 Pokemon if "it doesn't matter, they aren't real" in the first place?
Stick to a fricking narrative, damn.
>it's an "autist takes everything 100% literally" episode
>Why was it the straw that broke the camels back?
Because everyone freaked out over how Gen 5 didn't have any of their favorites and it was just the new Pokemon until post-game.
Everyone hated it, which is why they fixed it for B2/W2, and is among the many reasons why it is lauded as a core premium game.
The ironic part is if the argument genuinely was only about zard and chu, B2W2 did nothing to make them available natively.
interesting how people supposedly only complained about this during Unova when every game prior also mostly focused on new mons
Because there are still old Pokemon available to catch in the regular game
>galar is cutting so many mons what the frick!
>but also noooo there's too many mons available!!
autism
All the pics you spammed about same team this one is 100% accurate if you played online with randoms and comp teams aren't much diff.
I don't play pokemon so maybe I get this wrong here, but the solution should be to make more pokemon viable, not to remove the OP ones? the frick?
>PLA literally doesn't have Charizard in it
>no one cares
wow it's almost like the real reason people didn't like gen 5 was because it was stagnated and boring as frick and flooding the game with a bunch of forgettable unappealing new pokemon doesn't magically make the game interesting
what favorites are people constantly using in gens 1-4? gyarados, crobat, and tenacruel are it
schizo
>OP image is comparing Sinnoh and Galar
>thread beelines for Johto & Unova
What is this phenomenon called?
i thought it was about the series in general. i didn't know that was galar's dex
it's a summary of most of the lines available in the Wild Area + galar starter, but it is more about the series in general
It’s called OBSESSION
common sense
Why are Johtocucks so insecure?
postgame is fine
or is that a loaded question too?
It’s good if there’s a lot of new Pokemon.
200-350 is the sweetspot
>all 251
no it doesn't.
lol nice deletion moron. learn to post
>Gen 2 dex has all 251 Pokemon
nope
>no it doesn't
It does. Literally. By definition.
nope. how do i catch zapdos in gsc
>NOOO THERE'S NO JOHTO MONS IN JOHTO
>actually anon, yes there is *posts proof*
>YEAH BUT WHERE'S *Kanto mon*
Lmfao, so NOW you care about the Kanto mons when it serves you. You really are pathetic. Not my fault you don't have friends to trade in RBY mons. They are in the regular dex, so they are in the game.
>They are in the regular dex, so they are in the game.
Jobto cope.
people complaining about Johtomon availability don't understand they were supposed to be "newly discovered species" and thus rare.
That's the other thing - Gen 2 has the smartest implementation of the new mons. Whereas Gens 3 and onward is just
>LET'S SQUIRT A BUNCH OF RANDOM MONS INTO THE REGION/DEX LMAO
Yeah, so dumb for Slugma to be in a volcano. It should be on a cycling road instead!
The cycling road is where the ash from the cinnabar island eruption fell. I'm sorry you were too stupid to pick up on it
Does your flying slugma headcanon also explain why there aren't any on Cinnabar island?
The volcano erupted bro. It shot all of them out of the volcano. I get the feeling you are autistic
What, do you want to be able to surf on the lava or fish in it to scoop out more Slugma?
Why would you need to? Can't Slugma survive outside of lava? They should be flying freely through the skies all around Cinnabar.
Do you not know how volcanoes work?
Is it like an artillery piece that erupts in a big arcing shot across the ocean, depositing a pile of lava and volcanic ash along a single stretch of roadway?
That's why volcanoes themselves are never covered in any ash or lava, because volcanoes are known for their precision.
There's a ton of debris just to the south of Fuchsia, pretty nearby to both Cycling Road and Cinnabar, they clean it up during the story. It seems to have become rock by that point. Same with the stuff on Cinnabar itself. There's no debris near Palette Town, so clearly the eruption didn't dump anything there. Why did Slugma only get to one area? Well, there's no patch of grass directly south of Fuchsia. It's the only place that has an appropriate encounter table, it's not like there's a volcano you can go into in the game.
>There's a ton of [autistic headcanon]
k
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Kanto_Route_19
>In Pokémon Gold, Silver, Crystal, HeartGold, and SoulSilver, Route 19 is initially blocked off by giant boulders sent there by a volcanic eruption on Cinnabar Island.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/gbc/198308-pokemon-gold-version/faqs/49457
>CINNABAR's volcano erupted. It hurled boulders that cut off ROUTE 19 indefinitely. I wonder if the people of CINNABAR are safe...
Yeah, I agree it would have been pretty smart to put Slugma as a Rock Smash encounter inside brekable rocks on Route 19, rather than being in tall grass next to Celadon.
Careful now, none of that dialogue explicitly implicates that there were Slugma being carried by those boulders, therefore you're going to get called out for having a "nice fanfiction" because it isn't directly spelled out for autist chan.
>bulbapedo
>The cycling road is where [schizo fanfiction]
Thanks autism chan
Thank you for admitting you're a liar.
Thanks autism chan
Slugma is only on Cycling Road because the developers MAY HAVE (and I say MAY HAVE because we do not have any official interviews or statements to fully understand the development process of GS, therefore this is an ASSUMPTION at best) thought it would be funny to put it there and not have it appear anywhere else, including areas where the literal magma slug would be appropriate thematically such as Cinnabar Island itself or Burned Tower.
Happy?
Not everyone is an autist who tracks the prevailing winds in a video game.
Not really.
Go play gen 2. It's directly mentioned in game and the game manual
Cool headcanon.
>the game itself is head cannon
Thanks autism chan
GS on the Gameboy Color did in fact have a narrative that was based on "it's been three years since the original Pokemon journey, and since then 100 new species and aspects we originally didn't know about Pokemon have been discovered!"
Jasmine in GS quite literally states the Steel Type was a recent discovery, and the thing that kickstarts your journey is the Togepi Egg, which features both a species of Pokemon that has never been documented before as well as a glimpse into the emerging phenomenon of egg-like cradles, which are a completely different sect of Pokemon behavior from more traditional real world eggs that we've read about in the Pokedex of RGB and seen in supplementary media such as the Zukan.
explaining the reasoning behind a design decision doesn't magically make it not shit
Where do I catch the Kanto starters, Legendary birds, and fossils in GSC?
I guess this thread proves that /vp/ likes big dexs, lest they spend hours discussing limited options.
once again, if I criticize Gold/Silvers/HeartGold/SoulSilver dex, you can't just say "But muh Crystal!" and my argument goes away.
>you can't just say "But muh Crystal!"
Yes I can. Crystal exists, it is the last Gen 2 game, and it is therefore THE Gen 2 game for which we set the standard. Same as Yellow, Emerald and Platinum. End of story.
HG/SS are the definitive Johto games and you know they are.
No, Crystal is. HGSS are good but Crystal is maximum comfy soul.
your shitty graph was already disproven. kys
No it wasn't, the graph is quite literally objective fact. You literally cannot disagree because it's a matter of fact (except Octillery is not postgame, other than that it is correct)
If it's meant to be Crystal, then the Remoraid line is correctly placed.
Mareep's line isn't though. Nor is Girafarig, since neither are in Crystal.
And if you switched to Gold/Silver, then it'd require moving Sneasel and the Odd Egg mons, so it'd still be more of a loss than a gain.
See
>lying edit image that pretends mons aren't available
Nah, no-one is believing your BS kek
Qrd?
>n-no you don't get it, no johto pokemon in johto is actually good!
more pokemon = bloated?
no such thing
the more pokemon the better
frick you.
the mental gymnastics johotogays will go through lmao.
>the amount of times Pokemon fans need to defend GSC and HGSS from obvious lies
FTFY
>the truth = lying
meds
Same. I love catching Mareep on every Crystal playthrough.
>it's another 'Mareep is the only Johto Pokemon' episode
You need to get new material.
BTFOs any argument you have about le distribution.
I'm agreeing with you though? Mareep and Girafarig are both listed as readily available on that list, which is obviously referring to Crystal since it also lists Sneasel and mons from the Odd Egg, and excludes Remoraid while keeping Qwilfish.
if i cant readily walk into grass and find the pokemon i want it is not readily available.
post brought to you by business dog
This is what separates Johto and Sinnoh
Johto - almost all mons available in grass, surfing, or fishing
Sinnoh - you have to jump through 800 hoops to get the mons you want (pic related)
According to the standards of your pic, Johto requires just as many hoops
In no world is Mantyke a problem for only being available after Gym 8 while Tyrogue is 'readily available'.
hur
also have to remove unown requirements for hippowdon and add happiness evo for lopunny
See
>*remakes your games in Sinnoh giving your entire dex to DPPt*
Pssh, nothin personal, kid.
>He doesn't find the pokemon he wants on the first try
ngmi + skill issues
so are these 2 falseflagging discord Black folk just going to bait you people until bump limit
>you are not allowed to criticize Johto
I really wish people here were willing to accept that their favorite games in the series aren't flawless masterpieces instead of obsessively defending the most obtuse things to defend a video game's honor from someone pointing out that something wasn't a very good decision
>I really wish people here were willing to accept that their favorite games in the series aren't flawless masterpieces
they very well might be to them, there's no objective measure to measure such things in the first place so arguing about it is a pointless exercise, when a fandom descends into cynical nitpicking instead of celebrating the things they like it just leads to an unending cycle of genwarring autism
Both of these examples are bad. A good region has a LARGE DEX of NEW POKEMON. Like Unova.
>stealth galar defense thread
kys op
Top: reddit meme
Bottom: actual unironic criticism
You tell me anon
Explain why more teambuilding options is suddenly bad
It’s not the team building options per say, it’s when everything is very easy to obtain, including overpowered options like pseudo legendaries
Pokemon is about collecting monsters, some of them have to be rare in order for it to work, this view of pokemon being limited to just "team building options" during the campaign is very recent
Also limiting options is a way to make the game more difficult as well, especially in the early game. Imagine if Sinnoh gave you a steel type before Roark for example, that would be stupid
novelty mons meant solely for collecting or gimmicks are fun, the problem with sinnoh and johto that leads to samey teams is that your options are split cleanly between strong, reliable mons that will carry you through the entire game with little effort and novelties that suck shit in battle and are just meant as something for the player to collect.
sinnoh has some mid-tier mons, but they're locked but their encounter methods require time and/or effort that they aren't good enough to justify.
yea the reason why so many teams look the same is low and behold they’re pokemon the player is likely to come across with little effort and by the time they might find a pokemon later, they’ve already invested half of their journey on Luxray or Staraptor like why change pokemon this late? Fricking sorry I didn’t halt progress on my adventure to find a fricking female combee in my blind run when I was 11 back in 2007.
the reason everyone uses Ampharos as their johto electric type is what the frick else are they going to use? pikachu and electabuzz aren't until kanto, chinchou and voltorb require the good rod (or you could get an electrode from the rocket hideout) that really only leaves magnemite, which can't be fully evolved in HGSS, and ampharos.
Exactly, wow shocker that pokemon that are easily found are often used in teams. Especially for a blind first time run
umm actually Elekid can be obtain with the odd egg in Crystal, checkmate Black person
crystal is even worse if you want an electric type because it removes ampharos and locks the two replacement options besides the RNG egg. hope you like savescumming!
>you're obligated to use an Electric type because...you just are okay?!?!
If getting one of those 5-6 Electric types is too hard for your little brain, maybe try one of the other 15 types? Lmao. Stop blaming Game Freak for your own moronation.
Mandatory type gays are moronic even by genwargay standards
"Dude fire types electric types" Black person who cares use something else
In fairness fire type has pretty good coverage and is usually a staple in teams
It isn’t. It’s always been a pretty rare and usually late game type if you don’t pick the fire starter. I often end up not having one on my team, as is the case for most people who aren’t specifically trying to have a fire type.
Not everyone uses Ampharos or an Electric type at all on their team. Why are you assuming people HAVE to use an Electric type? Also Pikachu/Electabuzz is pre-3rd Gym. Here are your electric options in GSC prior to the postgame:
Raichu (C)
Electabuzz (C)
Lanturn
Ampharos (GS)
Electrode
Magneton
Raikou
So between 5 and 6 depending on the game. Plenty. Stop lying about Johto and inventing barriers that don't exist. Your gaslighting is not going to work anymore.
he’s saying that all of them but 1 require the player to know about when Amphraos is so easily obtainable compared to the rest.
On top of that, you’re including changes made to Johto in Crystal but ignoring the problems the base game had that they shouldn’t have had to begin with
>I want to focus on the bad points of Gold/Silver, not the good points of Crystal!!!
That's a you problem.
Gold and Silver were GF’s initial plans for Johto.
>No mention of the FREE gift Pokémon in Goldenrod
My boy...he is forgotten...
It's hard to remember everything when you haven't played the game.
It came to mind immediately for me because I use Jolteon in every game where he's available. I was kinda taken aback that the Lucky egg of all things gets mentioned, but not, y'know, Eevee.
I agree with you, it's one of the most classic giftmons. I just thought it was telling that the other anon knows all those weird specifics but didn't know about something that every kid found on their own.
Jolteon is only obtainable Pre-Kanto in Crystal, so I don't blame him for forgetting it if he's only going off of GS memory, where you only get one Thunder Stone per save file from Bill's grandfather.
Mystery Gift.
Which isn't something you're going to be able to actively use if we're talking strictly within "natively singleplayer" terms. And if you're going to count Mystery Gift as a viable and non-tedious option to get Jolteon in GS Pre-Kanto, then you might as well say all Pokemon are equally viable to obtain as soon as you unlock trading.
I'll admit my mind was on HGSS where it's like 6 Pokéathalon rounds to a Thunderstone.
Average Gankerner is an early 20's male.
Early 20's = around 10 when HG/SS (Johto) and B/W (Unova) came out. I would know, I turn 21 this year.
They're the 2 regions /vp/ on average remember the best, and can talk the most about as a result.
Heartgold was my first game, and Black after that, although I'm personally more familiar with gen 3 than 5, but I like everything before gen 6 (and OR/AS are okay).
>I like everything before gen 6 (and OR/AS are okay).
This is the only way
>stone evo
nah
In Sinnoh’s case it’s mostly just Staraptor, Luxray and Lucario being strong, popular and easy as frick to get
Like you won’t really have any trouble to use other mons but why would you when the game gives you such cool and powerful options for free
It’s like with the abilities of Sprucifix in Clover, they’re all good in their own rights, but one of them is fricking wonder guard do yeah of course people use wonder guard. Does that mean regenerate is a bad ability? No, it’s just not wonder guard
>using vespiquen as an example of a shitmon
Vespiquen is actually really good in a Sinnoh run and she carried her weight when my 7-yr old self just happened to have a female combee.
>evolves at level 21 and immediately comes with a 90bp bug move and bug type recover
Just because a mon is not good in competitive formats doesn’t mean it’s bad in game too
no, i like vespiquen. hell, i love vespiuen. i used one in my last platinum playthrough. but at the same time, i wasn't planning to use one until i stumbled upon a female combee by pure happenstance. i can't imagine going out of my way to look for one.
I would point to Kalos as an easy example of why certain mons need space to breathe.
To start with, say you want a dragon type in Kalos. Your very first options would be Axew immediately followed by Bagon, both very strong returning dragon types, both available before the first gym.
That drastically reduces the motivation for anyone to track down or use other dragon types.
Putting something too strong very early or where it's easily accessed just ends up reducing team variety because more people are going to pick that instead of waiting for something later. Strong mons should be rare or out of the way to help encourage exploration.
If you suddenly took Sinnoh and added to areas after the 7th gym places where you could catch every non-legendary Johto/Hoenn mon that was single-stage at the time (Girafarig, Luvdisc, etc.) you'd add over 20 mons to the dex, but you wouldn't actually change anything about the 'generic Sinnoh team' meme, because nobody is dropping one of their team-members at Gym 8 for a Luvdisc.
Poor distribution can ruin all of the positives of simply having a larger dex.
>Your very first options would be Axew immediately followed by Bagon, both very strong returning dragon types, both available before the first gym.
*second gym
I prefer a large dex since it gives players more choices
I dunno about gen 2 or 4, but I really enjoyed XY's availability. ORAS with the DexNav was also comfy.
The only thing that matters is that there are Pokemon I like early on. I'll take a Pokedex of 80 Pokemon I like over one of 400 where I struggle to make a team of 6.
Galar’s roster would be fine if 90% of it wasn’t available in the Wild Area before the damn first gym, front loading the game is great for replay value but it makes the future routes thoroughly uninteresting when I was able to assemble a balanced team of 6 in my first couple hours of playing.
>Gen 1: Good, leans on repeats in a few places.
>Gen 2: Kanto with what was essentially a DLC pack. Gets the job done and fills the gaps Kanto needed.
>Gen 3: Perfect
>Gen 4: Utter shit in D/P; Perfect in Platinum
>Gen 5: Felt hollowed out in B/W, near-perfect in B2/W2
>Gen 6: Bloated on paper, alright in actual gameplay.
>Gen 7: Bloated
>Gen 8: Bloated
>Gen 9: Bloated
>Gen 2 dex has all 251 pokemon
Not arguing over that since it's a moot point these turbo autists can't seem to grasp since it has been the fundamental basis of the games since the beginning.
My personal issue is more to do with when those pokemon from gen 2 could actually be accessed - i.e. Houndour/Murkrow
It could be argued that it's just a flavor thing they did, but it was still fricking moronic to do that.
>have a place called BURNED TOWER
>No Houndaur
like come on
Im all for adding flavor and lore to a game but if it comes with the expense of good game design then frick it. Oh wow it’s really cool that there are still new pokemon to discover in Kanto except trainers in Johto have them and all it goes it mean they never get used in playthroughs. Then you have 1% garbage mons that are like cool, world building. But At least make it worthwhile
an extremely good thing and i'll never forgive genwunners for trashing kinova so hard gamefreak never even bothered to try again
But Unova’s dex is small, this isn’t about number of mons introducing its number of options available
>bait image about Sinnoh and nugen games
>turns into a Johto seethe thread almost immediately
Lmfao, Johtochads can't stop winning. The eternal seethe continues forever.
>Dexbloat
The frick does this even mean? A big regional dex means there is replay value.
>The frick does this even mean?
“I’m upset that the newer games have elements that are objectively better than my heckin le peak of the series golden era DS games so I’m going to make up a buzzword to pretend the objectively better thing is actually bad”
>I’m upset that the newer games have elements that are objectively better than my heckin le peak of the series golden era DS games
Like the dexcut?
It's dumb to put 500 creatures in unnatural locations just for the sake of having them.
Please show the class the natural and unnatural locations. You can start from Gen 1 and go all the way to Gen 9.
What replay value does it add if using old mons is bad like typical sinnoh team gays claim?
It's a meme from the same people who brought you #ThankYouGameFreak in response to BBND back during the SWSH Hype Era.
They unironically want Pokedexes to go back to only having 151 Pokemon because they don't like keeping track of so many species of Pokemon and their attributes, even though the game practically does all the weight lifting (showing what moves are super effective or not) for them already.
But games with bloated dexes introduced the least amount of new pokemon to keep track of
Yes, but they still have to actively memorize and keep track of all Pokemon that aren't from their childhood game because there's no nostalgic memories clinging to them.
They'd also much prefer there be as few new Pokemon as possible and that their design perfectly conveys their type from a single five second glance, so we're effectively talking a Pokedex of about 50 new Pokemon, 75 Kanto Pokemon and some filler mixture of other generations.
What the hell are you babbling on about
> They'd also much prefer there be as few new Pokemon as possible
So they like gens 6+ and hate BW?
Now you get it! But the high dex counts still make them piss their pants, so their dream game is a lot closer to something like LGPE or LA.
I think you’re making up people to get mad at anon.
Being actually able to ko things and not dying all the time
>Being actually able to ko things and not dying all the time
Which sableye and castform both do.
This. It makes sense to lean on old mons but every gen since Kalos has been suffocating it’s new mons in favor of old ones. Is there any reason mons from older gens are still vastly more popular than mons from newer gens even in spite of Kaloskeks growing up?
>gen 6+ fans who hate the ds games hate larger regional dexes (like XY, USUM, SWSH, and SV which all have at least 400 pokemon) and want a regional dex of 151 or so pokemon (like DP and BW)
Why are genwarrers unable to follow basic logic?
Pokemon fans don't actually know what they want to begin with. Remember when 2ch hikikomoris shat on Mallow for being "pandering" and then she ended up as one of the most popular Alola girls?
shoving anything and everything into the game robs it of flavor.
damn bro i thought people wanted all the content
It's a good thing. We've never had a dex that was too big. The very idea that someone could be mad about dexit and also mad about a "bloated dex" is an insane contradiction, and reveals the type of person who doesn't actually like or dislike anything other than a trendy bandwagon hate of the newer games.
Large dexes are good if they're able to space the pokemon out in a believable way while not making it too easy to bump into them, I guess in a weird way it's a pacing issue?
When you can come across Tsareena and Sandaconda within a few feet of each other it's a bit shit.
Having a big dex for a big region is fine
But having 20 different encounters on a route then 20 completely different ones on the next is just lazy
If you want your dex to be big then have many routes, and many different ways to get mons. Have some of them be trade exclusive, why is gen 1 the only one that does this? Have others be gift mons, have some be locked behind some kind of gimmick, have a day/night cycle and seasons, etc. It's not that hard to have a big dex without the routes being bloated. But putting content in games takes more time than just spamming species on random routes
>gating Pokemon behind criteria that requires me to wait when I just want to blitz the game as quickly as possible in order to have access to all of the postgame QoL that makes teambuilding a breeze
I will not use your Pokemon in my campaign team. Simple as.
Good, my game isn't for you, qoltard
I don't really get how guys like him decided that "Quality of Life" means "Get me to the end as fast as possible because I don't actually like the game."
That's why IMO Pokémon should take after Call of Duty and have a Singleplayer campaign (AKA the game as we know it), and then a separate, Showdown-esque online multiplayer. Give them their treat and then let the game be, you know, an actually well-made game.
qol has always been slang for casualization and instant gratification, it's exclusively used by people who hate playing the games
Maybe if you're a zoomer it may seem like it always has been. But it hasn't for those with a longer memory.
Okay, cool, don’t care.
Remember when Pokemon was about collecting them all rather than picking and choosing a perfect roster of 6 to use for the whole game and ignoring everything else?
No.
Probably because you weren't alive at the time
No, I just always played that way. Your experiences are not universal.
Yeah i remember, SV was a pretty good game.
Yeah, and I'll collect them all when I have the resources to make that an easier job rather than slogging them against underleveled opponents for ten hours just so a novelty Pokemon can become another novelty Pokemon.
Rather, I'll wait until I can amass EXP Candy aplenty to simplify the process, or, in a game where EXP Candy doesn't exist, I'll wait until I have a dedicated Pokemon League Buster I can use to make multiple sweeps of the E4 and Champion while those shitters kick back and soak up the benefits of the EXP from five teams worth of high-yield Level 70+ Pokemon.
Fun fact about that, Scarlet and Violet was the first time I felt truly motivated to complete the Pokedex because of how easy it was to fill it out despite there being 400 bastards in Paldea, 200 in Kitakami and 240 mandatory bastards in Blueberry. Wild how that works despite there being so many Pokemon to put up with, right?
USUM had a good balance for “qol” level grinding, easy Chansey spot at Poni Island to SOS farm while not trivializing the level curve by giving you xp candies aplenty before you even hit the first gym.
>Flygon, Tyranitar, Haxorus. & Kommo-o all static encounters and catchable in Wild Area after 8th gym
>Dreepy is a 1% random encounter in 1 specific part of Wild Area catchable after 7th gym
I’m all for making Pokemon rare and needing to put the effort in to get it, but what was the rationale here?
dreepy is a new pokemon therefore it has more value
Well yea, but doesn’t a lot of the motivation to get it kind of fade away when you have so many other options right in front of you and way easier to grab?
Dex is less important, more important is the map, story and gameplay. There are so many pokemon now that dex amount and quality is practically irrelevant.