So this is my team after beating Lance.
What was it about Johto being grindy again? I didn't need to grind a single time except when i included a new party member to put it on par with the old ones (which is a problem in all pokemon games including those with global exp share).
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By the way, according to cheatgays i would have been justified in injecting rare candies to put my whole team to level 50 because Lance's last Dragonite is level 50. Yeah surely that would have been a fun fight
>cheese the game with OP trademons
>”WTF this is so easy?!?!”
>NOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T USE THE GAME IN THE WAY THE DEVELOPERS INTENDED I'M TRANS THIS IS GENOCIDE
>that last bit
rent-free
Comparing someone to a commonly viewed as ridiculous and mentally ill group isn't having said group rent free in the head, it's just insulting someone.
YWNBAW by the way
>wtf no shitmons with sub-430 BST?!?
Golem alone, frick even Graveler, can tear ass through johto it's not even funny. You just need something for Chuck, Clair, and maybe Pryce if your Graveler has shitty DVs. I beat Lance with a Dual Screens Ledian and a level 37 Shuckle with Rollout. Rock is pretty broken in gen 2
Hard agree, Golem is amazing on anything that doesn't have water or grass.
>Vs. I beat Lance with a Dual Screens Ledian and a level 37 Shuckle with Rollout.
People really sleep on just how good Rollout is for filling out movepools, anything that can take at least one hit becomes a wreckign ball that demolishes most teams even when coming off of lackluster offensive stats
I'm going to make the argument that Chikorita is actually the best Johto starter specifically because of this. No, the stupid beansprout isn't cool looking, or imposing. But choosing Chikorita makes Silver choose Cyndaquil, something vulnerable to Rock-type moves. Catch a Geodude in the Dark Cave and level it up to 11 to get Rock Throw and Falkner and Bugsy fold. Level it to 16 and it gets Magnitude too, which is just a slightly-weaker Earthquake. Once you hit Goldenrod you can swap Rock Throw for Rollout via the TM, and use Defense Curl-boosted Rollouts to take down Whitney. Magnitude kills Morty and Jasmine, and Rollout can nuke Pryce too.
Which means the only main threat to Geodude/Graveler's supremacy is Chuck, which is what Chikorita is for. Then you can Rollout Clair.
especially if they have defense curl. i used a furret with that combo recently and it swept whitney, morty, and pryce.
I used a fricking phanpy until lv 49 with defense curl and rollout once, the little baby elephant broke the game on nothing but rollout, then it evolved into a Donphan with double edge and earthquake at said level, then proceeded to tear the rest of the game apart
If something can use rollout it should use rollout, that 90% accuracy barely matters heck I might even say that is as broken as curse but with extremely early game availability on top of defense curl being a TM too
>lv 49
???????????
>bulbasaur used solar beam
It's time for you to realize that most posters here absolutely suck at a children game.
Two reasons. One is that because NPC's and wild pokemon are low level compared to the Gyms and Bosses so if you don't grind you'll likely be lower level than the Gyms and Bosses, however, as you showed Gyms and Elite 4
The other reason is that it because wild Pokemon are lower level, it takes more time to raise them up to level at of the rest of your team.
The level curve complaints are founded but its highly exaggerated.
To be honest i think bosses being overleveled is fine. They're bosses, being higher level than you makes them more challenging and is part of their design.
I do agree that the level curve is bad though, the game is way too "open world" for its own good, and that just doesn't work in a game like this. You'll find yourself overleveled a lot, and underleveled against bosses which is okay since you're given more than enough tools to win despite the level difference
based team
>What was it about Johto being grindy again? I didn't need to grind a single time except when i included a new party member to put it on par with the old ones (which is a problem in all pokemon games including those with global exp share).
It's just people not liking gsc's nonlinear. Most people tend to forget that the games' expect you to underlevel when facing the league. Gen 2 gets single out more because of it's jank level curve. Most people don't like to admit this but most of gen 2 issues are stuff you'll find in other pre-gen 5 games. Also the lack of qoL stuff.
>Scizor
>Before Lance
I used thief on wild magnemites 🙂
>Grinding fricking Magnemites for a 2% chance of a Metal Coat when you're given a guaranteed one
I wanted it for the league plus i didn't know it was given immediately after like this, i try not to spoil myself item locations and such
I got the king's rock and dragon scale by myself, for the metal coat i eventually looked it up and saw it was post game only so i resorted to the magnemite method.
>Claims Johto isn't grindy
>After grinding Magnemite encounters for a 2% metal coat steal
Yeah because getting a metal coat before the post game is required to beat the game
says the guy who grinded.
The irony of this post is that Scizor's probably the weakest member of OP's team.
It's sad how fricking ass Scizor's movepool is until gen 4. I'm not even talking about Platinum, even the D/P additions were a godsend.
That's a common pattern for a lot of mons honestly. Gen 4 is probably the gen that buffed the highest amount of mons, saving shitmons and allowing others to exploit their previously wasted potential.
Wing Attack, Steel Wing, Fury Cutter, and Swords Dance is a pretty good combo.
Yes, and I got it on the 3rd one.
>I didn't need to grind a single time except when i included a new party member
So you still had to grind. And this is the actual issue with the level curve. Adding Pokemon to the team is awful. Not the difficulty. Allowing you to switch to a different Pokemon.
Also kinda weird since those levels are about right without grinding.
I only grinded the new party member not the others
And it didn't feel worse than in the other games
>level curve
Do people actually find these stupid games hard or whatever the frick they say?I beat when I was 11 and could barely speak any english
Good team. I prefer Piloswine over Kingdra for beat the dragons btw, but it's a personal thing
I have kind of a problem with using mons that got an evo in later gens without being able to evolve it, doesn't feel right
Yeah i know the feeling, i'm a Mamoswinegay too, but in Gen 2 games Piloswine is a good ice mon attacker
>t. millenialf4g who played gen 2 games back in 2001 summer on Game Boy color for the first time
But wait isn't ice a special type? Piloswine's spatk isn't good
Yep but against Lance's dragons i always preferred ice attacks rather than dragon ones, at least first times without cheats and/or in the original first games.
In the re-playing with cheats i obviously used also other mons like Dratini evolutions n sh33ts (if i member correctly they give you one freely in Crystal even without cheats, and you can find somes while surfing in the Dragon Den)
Oh yeah definitely, i got ice punch on gengar and it put Lance's dragonites in the red. There aren't really any good dragon moves in gen 2
With Super Rod you can literally find level 40 Dratini on Dragon Den (+1 level and you've a Dragonair), but this is waaay after beating Jhoto League
I always wondered if someone chose Chikorita as starter. All the people i know chose Toto or Cynda
>Terrible at gyms
>Team Rocket mostly use poison types so terrible
>nerfed as f*ck
In my first gen 2 run i abused the cloning glitch to get all 3 starters
Chikorita is really bad compared to the other two so i can get why people didn't pick it
And that is despite the fact that Cyndaquil is stuck if fricking Ember until level 31 where it finally learns FLAME WHEEL. When mine became a Typhlosion i taught it fire punch by TM. I'm still waiting for it to get a better fire stab
>In my first gen 2 run i abused the cloning glitch to get all 3 starters
In my first playing i turned down the Game Boy early and i ended up with a cloned shiny Suicune catchedn WITHOUT CHEATS but UNREGISTERED in the Pokedex and i literally had to ask to a friend to another one with the ''good old'' game link. So he ended with a wellfare free shiny Suicune lol
>I'm still waiting for it to get a better fire stab
Fire Blast (5500 bucks) or Flamethrower (naturally learned)
All chikorita ever needed was leech seed, reset for a female one then breed it with either a hoppip or exeggcute and you got yourself the good chikorita experience
Only problem is delaying hoppip Evo a couple of levels for leech seed(LV 20 vs skiploom LV 22) or finding a male exeggcute through headbutt(lv 13), free than you are set
Yeah but this would work later in the game.
Chosing 'rita as a starter without cheats would be dumb a.f.
That's how GSC are supposed to be played. Kanto level curve makes much more sense if you beat the league with an underleveled team (easily feasible even with no items in battle if you aren't a moron).
Yeah i realized that. Literalwho trainers are still too weak even without grinding though
Miniboss levels are good though
>4 hacked trade evos
lmao
>hacked
That's where you're wrong :^)
People are crying over trade evos when you can getter better mons without hacking
People usually complain about Johto being too easy because everything tends to be underleveled a lot of the time. Red is the only part where you really got to grind
>Red is the only part where you really got to grind
Yeah, i'm at Red now and it doesn't look like i'll be able to win without grinding. Espeon especially really fricks me with how fast it is.
Blue was 10 levels above me and that was a great fight. Only Kanto leader i didn't just sweep with 1 mon besides Sabrina. But Red is 30 levels above me kek
Golem walls Pikachu
Scizor should get 4hko'd by Espeon with lefties and can get up Agility + Fury Cutter
Lax gets blanked by Gengar (lol)
Crobat should outspeed and 3hko Venusaur, Typhlo can clean up if he fails
Kingdra and Golem can combine to kill Zard with Rock Slide + Surf
Kingdra should be able to set Toxic + Protect at least once vs Blastoise. Then Gengar should outspeed and deal like 60% with Thunderbolt + Boom, hopefully sniping him before Red uses Full Restore
I didn't exactly account for the full restores but I think thanks to badge boosts you should already have his ass, anon. Unless you have poor DVs.
Espeon 2HKOs Scizor actually, puts me in the yellow every time. My strat against it is to sac Kingdra to lower its speed with icy wind then put it to sleep with Gengar and kill it with two shadow balls. Then comes Snorlax and while Gengar does wall it it also does tickle damage because of amnesia and it can pp stall me with rest, so my strat has been to switch Scizor into him while it is either asleep (not that good because snore) or frozen from Gengar’s ice punch (best case scenario) and start swords dancing then kill it. Scizor also usually beats Venusaur, but Venusaur sometimes sets up sun which is annoying. And then Charizard comes next and beats Scizor, from there Charizard outspeeds my whole team so I have to use Typhlosion to damage it with thunder punch, but Charizard usually wins that matchup and then I only have Crobat and Gengar left. Even if I do take out Charizard they can’t do much to Blastoise who somehow outspeeds Gengar.
that's weird, the calcs I was looking at suggested totally different outcomes
>Espeon 2hkos
with Psychic? crazy
Yeah. But now i grinded everyone to level 55 and was able to tank a psychic with Golem and explode in Espeon's face, thus keeping Kingdra which is about to give me the win
Also after grind Espeon's psychic was actually a 3HKO on Scizor so you weren't far off.
we can't reach any conclusion about grinding until you define what it is and isn't to you. at the bare minimum, you only fight mandatory trainers, anything else is grinding. cheatbros play with hardcore nuzlocke rules and would only level to 47 to match karen's houndoom
i finished a casual playthrough of scarlet recently, used whatever new mons i liked, and still went into the e4 ~15 levels below rika's first mon. you can skip so many hours of exploring and grinding by spamming items, which candybros would consider cheesing the fights
Grinding is fighting the same wild pokemon or trainers over and over again, experiencing new content isn't grinding
>trainer
And this is where the argument falls apart like always.
I was referring to rematching the same trainers over and over again with vs seeker/other similar features. That is grinding. Fighting every trainer once is playing the game.
Fighting optional trainers is not required to progress. By your logic, I can say doing raids and using exp candies from them is also playing the game. It's not like grinding is a bad thing, but you should call it what it is.
Exp candies aren’t really grinding either, any normal player who isn’t actively trying to stay lower leveled would use them, hence why the games are moronic for giving you so many
Lol, we agree to disagree then. Don't take these difficulty and grinding threads too seriously.
If it takes all of 2 seconds then it’s not grinding. Grinding it the process of repeating the same task over and over for the soul purpose of gaining levels. Using an item from your bag that you got as a reward for completing a challenge that you hadn’t done prior is by definition, not grinding. Don’t get me wrong, I get what you’re trying to say: grinding is the process of deliberately gaining exp that you otherwise wouldn’t need in order to progress. But that’s simply not what grinding actually means.
lol. i kill wild mons on every route so i can "explore" for the 2% encounters. it's not grinding 😉
Fighting optional trainers isn’t required, it’s… optional. Calling it grinding is moronic still. You don’t fight them just to earn levels, you also fight them to see their teams, potentially unlock new areas, and since this is Johto potentially add their number and have them give you items
not once have i cared about any of that shit
>unlock new areas
when?
>not once have i cared about any of that shit
Not my problem if you’re a zoomer who doesn’t care about investing time in the games he plays. Go play shitty games with no content like XY for all I care.
>when?
A lot of optional areas have npcs in the way.
zoomers have beaten red by the time you're done exploring dark cave lmao. they invest as much time as the games deserve compared to waiting around for time-based dogshit, which is not "playing the game"
>optional areas but zero listed
>almost all pretty pointless anyway
i sleep
>which is not "playing the game"
It quite literally is, going out of your way to get mons you like is how the game is meant to be played, sure you can also steamroll it in record time with legendaries but where’s the fun in that? Why would i play a game only so I can be done with it as fast as possible?
>It quite literally is
Yikes sister, now I know who killed Pokemon. But enjoy your 100 hour playthrough to beat Lance.
>game having content is bad and killed the franchise
Meds
>game having bad content is bad
Yes. Meds, now.
>bad content
how so?
Nobody with a life is tolerating waiting around for phone calls, daily events, any of that shit in Pokemon. It would be better if none of that existed.
How it normally goes for stones is you wonder why there aren't any, then you look it up and see they're locked behind a random NPC and RNG, and you don't bother because it's too much of a hassle.
So basically you don’t want to play the game. You just want mobile gachashit that gives you everything instantly.
Again, nothing’s stopping you from playing XY if that’s more your speed.
Again, waiting around is not playing the game. But enjoy your 100 hour playthrough to beat Lance.
Yes. Why make them easily buyable in gen 1, then lock them behind a moronic mechanic in gen 2? It's not worth most people's time and I'll just skip them altogether.
I never needed to "wait around" btw
Phone calls happen when you play normally
Stones are still all RNG. You can get none of them before beating Red.
It only adds waiting, eg. nothing. There's zero depth in that.
>You can get none of them before beating Red.
play the game holy shit kek
is that statement still wrong? how is this better than finding or buying one?
there could be an npc that told you to wait 24 hours for a fire stone and johtogays would call it 24 hours of gameplay
>is that statement still wrong?
yes lmao play the game
it's much easier to miss encounters compared to items, sister. still rng
moving the goalpost I see?
>there could be an npc that told you to wait 24 hours for a fire stone and johtogays would call it 24 hours of gameplay
Considering you can play while you wait yeah
Why should I be forced to catch or breed these? What if I want to use Victreebel or Jolteon instead? I'll just not use them, lol.
And I got none. Funny how Johtoddlers don't understand probability 🙂
You never made a probabilistic claim. You said "you can get none of them before beating Red." That's not, "it's unlikely to get them before Red," you absolute moron.
What do you think "can" means? Lol. You can miss the shops or the overworld items too, but that's far less likely to happen for casuals. Anyway, I think this discussion is all I needed to see to understand gen 2 "gameplay" and why nobody takes it seriously. Good night.
I mistook what you meant. The way you used "can," your statement could mean two practically contradictory things. "You can get none" (as in, "you can't get any") or "You can get none" (as in, "you might get none").
>nobody takes it seriously
>meanwhile everyone who knows anything about pokemon likes gen 2
>moving the goalpost
>Oh no! RNG in my pokemon game!
I got water stones, thunder stones, etc. from phone calls before beating the 8 gym leaders. you're moronic and incorrent
you can't get the stones before the postgame in gs, crystal allows them via phone calls, so it adds depth to the mechanic
also this
>optional content is optional therefore is bad
huh?
>another case of johto gameplay (exploring nothing and doing nothing) vs everyone else (battles)
always pointless to argue with these morons
It's almost as if the game was designed for kids who have free time, and designed in such a way it would give them things to boot up for and continue playing for months
How is it bad content schizo
This just sounds like typical Johto cope now, lol. Frick that phone call garbage.
No, it’s great, I actually didn’t recall it being this good. I don’t think it’s as good in GS but in Crystal you can actually get items, tips about where to find some mons etc from it, it’s great
this, I was greatly surprised when I got a water stone via phone call
Was it from that girl who gives you stuff her simps give her kek, I got a thunder stone from her iirc
Gold is canonically a bull
I fricking love the cell phone in gen 2, it really makes the world so much more immersive.
well maybe the people who thought it was grindy weren't trading for 500 bst+ trademons? just a thought lol
but that being said. there are a lot of mons in GSC who punch above their weight. Feraligatr, Typhlosion, Red Gyarados, Alakazam, the legendary bird on your game's box, and *especially* Kenya are all great with little or zero favoritism. (So is Raikou but good luck with that.)
there are also a lot of early mons that you can obtain and train up early into serious threats: Crobat, Ampharos, Heracross, Scyther and Pinsir, Granbull, Ursaring. Geodude and Ghastly both have great potential especially if you can trade.
Then there are decent mons you can pick up for type advantage / pivots. like Magmar for Steelix, Jinx for that there Ice STAB, Tauros or Miltank for decent stats + base level, Girafarig can sweep with psychic attacks... a lot of the water types are decent.
Also the game gives you Badge Boosts + Badge Type Boosts + Stat Experience (the enemies get none) + X Items + Full Restores and Revives. so obviously the game is not hard. but if you want to go out of your way to use some shitmon with a horrible base level, then yes you are going to have a bad time.
>well maybe the people who thought it was grindy weren't trading for 500 bst+ trademons?
They could have used the free Suicune which I specifically decided not to use, or the two roaming beasts
Hell I’m pretty sure Ho Oh is available before the elite four
So how exactly are trade evolutions "cheating" again when none of them are even pseudo legendary. The game rewards exploration and usage of its features through items like king’s rock, dragon scale or early metal coat for a reason, if you want to do a challenge run where you only use shitmons more power to you but then don’t complain about the game being grindy when you’re intentionally nerfing yourself
>Girafarig can sweep with psychic attacks
I used it last time I played and while it was stuck with confusion, that and stomp actually ended up fricking the enemies big time, it was a nice little surprise
You had to grind because you were a friendless loser?
>You had to grind because you were a friendless loser?
I did not, I swept everything with feraligatr
nah you can't get Ho-Oh before E4 in Crystal. (assuming you mean Crystal since you mentioned a free Suicune.) but yeah Crystal Suicune is great and probably the best Pokemon I didn't mention... probably better than Ho-Oh and Lugia since you can teach it Surf and Waterfall. and you do get the one Master Ball, so.
>So how exactly are trade evolutions "cheating" again when none of them are even pseudo legendary.
I wasn't saying it was "cheating", just that the people who complained probably weren't using them. as you say they were probably trying to train up shitmons. but the list of what qualifies as a "shitmon" due to availability in GSC is notable, it includes Tyranitar, Misdreavous, Houndoom, Blissey, Kangaskhan... a few mons you might really want to use but would have to grind to bring up to par
if you don't want to use any mons like that, then yeah. no need for grinding
I do agree there's a shitmon problem but pretty much every region has that issue.
>swept everything with feraligatr
>plays pokemon like a moron
concession accepted
>beating the game efficiently is 'like a moron'
okay moron. I was also seven years old at the time for whatever that's worth
>wait for Lance to bring out charizard
>switch in typhlosion
>defense curl
>rollout
>win
you can even teach it thunderpunch to blast gyarados
>gyarados
Gyarados can lear all the Casino and Move Tutor moves
>Still above level 40
Pathetic. Behold, THIS is the team I was able to beat the league with, and I used NO items in battle whatsoever.
This looks like you abused shift mode, the cheapest mechanic in the game, and prayed your inaccurate hax moves and hax items bailed you out after numerous resets. It sure is a way to play the game.
I was playing on set mode, actually, and while it did take me quite a few tries that was literally only because of Koga’s accuracy hacks, once I got past him I was able to beat every other battle on my first try. I actually didn’t get much mileage out of swagger or mud slap anyway, I just didn’t have anything else worth putting on it.
I also didn’t use items in battle, didn’t think it was worth mentioning because you can win with a single shitmon with items in battle, who plays like that?
And I was in set mode obviously, no idea why switch mode even exists. Also when I entered the league everyone was level 37 except Gengar which was 38.
But yeah, I don’t doubt you could win with that team honestly. The league was clearly designed with the player being underleveled in mind. No wonder Johto makes level cap gays seethe
>No wonder Johto makes level cap gays seethe
Yea It’s really fricking moronic to me that some players will grind up their mons well above the levels of the first E4 member just before the league. Silver uses Pokémon that are level 34-38 in his battle just before the league, players are clearly supposed to be around there, yet some people will insist that pre-league grinding is an intended experience
It's because the morons listened to one challenged streamer instead of realizing that all Pokemon games are made for drooling 5 year olds to beat without grind.
>I didn't need to grind a single time
Yep you got lucky the wild pokémon happened to be a Magnemite holding a Metal Coat.
This logic only makes sense if owning a metal coat is necessary in order to beat the game which it quite obviously isn’t
>I didn't grind but I managed to get a Metal Coat before SS Aqua (only available as a 5% held item from wild Magnemite (20% encounter rate, 10% chance to flee))
Everybody could tell I meant grinding for levels being a requirement for beating the game, stop pretending to be moronic. I just like Scizor a lot and absolutely wanted one before the post game
I'm a huge gen 2 simp, GSC are far and away my favourite games in the series, but even I can admit the level curve is fricked.
No, you never really have to grind, but trainer and wild pokemon levels are fricked (often not even increasing linearly -- some routes drop like ten levels from the last gym, or are leveled identically to the previous area), and you often end the game with Pokemon in the low-40s.
Just makes everything feel underpowered and underwhelming.
what if I don't have enough money to buy stones in gen I
this is literally genocide
don't throw away the ones you picked up moron
???
>bringing up casuals
yikes sisters, you're running out of arguments
nah sis, it was always about casuals (the ones game freak cares about)
what is even your point here moron?
modern pokemon is aimed at casuals and it's way worse than whatever came before
It’s probably yawngay again so a kalosperm
Gotta say he sure is good at shitting on specifically the best games in the series, not sure if he’s doing it on purpose of if he just has the worst possible tastes
obtaining gen 2 stones is moronic because phone calls (time based event) are moronic? and you have to catch pokemon you don't want? and pokemon in 1999 wasn't aimed at casuals? lol cmon now
>and you have to catch pokemon you don't want?
a quest? in my rpg????
unacceptable
>Nooooo i have to catch pokemon ugh this is literally nazi germany
Literally why do people like you even play pokemon. Oh wait, you don’t.
>mfw I have to catch pokemon in the pokemon game
day ruined
>Mfw the game doesn’t play itself for me
Seriously though, why is the game designed to punish me like this?
This stone discussion is a good representation of the two different kinds of campaign gameplay: exploring and battles. Gen 2 panders more to the former at expense of the latter. Exploregays basically call anything gameplay as long as there's a reward at the end, so time-based events are great because it's like being rewarded for doing nothing. Battlegays don't play gen 2 because there's too many hoops to jump through to use what you want. Despite the new battle system, the meta is a horrible stallfest and grinding is even more painful.
Honestly even after playing through Crystal Legacy and Crystal Kaizo+, which are more focused on battles and reduce exploring grind, I think GSC is still too bland. Stadium 2 with rentals only is the only gen 2 game that does them well because it's so different.
People like the "vibes" of Gen 2, and a considerable part of these vibes are the random time-and-date-specific events. These add to the sense of a "realistic" (within the bounds of GBC hardware) living world. It feels right that you can't just go out in the middle of the day and run into 30 owls. Or it makes sense that your buddies aren't going to immediately shove expensive gifts down your throat. Even where these mechanics present barriers to specific types of progress, there's a value to these stumbling blocks, because these inconveniences contribute to the feeling of verisimilitude that made these games so beloved in the first place.
But of course it is a trade off.
I hate GSC but love Stadium 2. Rentals only is an important distinction because you have to employ some kind of strategy to win with those shitmons and persevere through the bullshit. It gave me a newfound love for Voltorb, Fearow, and the Hitmons. Challenge Cup is also like a prototype of the Battle Factory and winning with rentals in Little Cup is easier and faster than breeding and grinding your own team.
Honestly, if there was no exploration and hard to get mons/evos in pokemon games, i probably wouldn't be here today.
I'd go as far as saying /vp/ probably wouldn't exist as the franchise would have ended with a flop at gen 1.
Who told you it was grindy
The only time I ever really had to stop to grind was for Red
Johto in fact has the opposite problem where it's too fricking easy since the levels barely move throughout the game
Yeah i agree there, random trainers are way underleveled.
Kanto gym leaders are also not overleveled enough to actually be challenging
People b***h about johto being too grindy all the time. Though these are the same people who claim Whitney doesn’t have a Miltank so they’re clearly taking out of their ass.
This complaint pisses me off, why are we pretending that random trainer battles are supposed to be hard? Whether they’re 5 levels below you or 10, doesn’t make a huge difference, either way you’ll be able to 1-2 shot every mon they have with minimal exceptions if you try. The reality is that you’re not supposed to be going all out on them, random trainers exist so you have something to train weaker mons on. Low to mid 30s is perfectly serviceable for this considering kanto gym leaders have mons in their low to mid 40s
Thank you for defending bad game design.
I never said anything about the random trainers. I was referring to actual trainers.
The gym levels between early johto and late kanto really stagnate, since they seemed to try to use the same level curve as gen 1 but now spread out over two regions. I don't feel that really works, since it means your party is going to end up being ahead of the curve for the bulk of it and it's just boring to be stuck around the same levels for so long.
I still generally like the game, but it's an odd design choice.
Well, first of all, you have to realise that people are moronic and gen 2's level scaling has the opposite problem of what is commonly claimed; outside of the earlygame up till Ecruteak, from Clair up till Indigo Plateau, and Red, the games make you face mostly low level opponents who don't put up a fight at all even by the series' own low standards. Gen 2 is snoozeinducingly easy rather than grindy, and yes, that's in comparison to other Pokemon games, even when you could criticise the entire series of the same thing.
Second,
>I didn't need to grind except when I did grind
You're not actually any better than the people you're trying to lecture. From your team makeup I can't even tell which 'new party member' you're referring to.
>From your team makeup I can't even tell which 'new party member' you're referring to
Because I put in on the same level as the rest hence the need for grinding
Btw if it was a global exp share game I wouldn’t have been able to do that without overleveling my other mons
>I put in on the same level as the rest
Yes, you made that clear. I meant in terms of "what species would anon have had no option to add to the party before he already started worrying about the Pokemon League?" and the best I can guess is Horsea from the Seafoam Islands.
>hence the NEED for grinding
Mm, I'm not convinced. Are you sure you couldn't have just slapped whichever Pokemon you're referring to on the team and continued onwards?
>Btw if it was a global exp share game I wouldn’t have been able to do that without overleveling my other mons
You're right, but why exactly are you bringing this up?
Horsea from Whirl Islands*, even.
Is this crystal?
Ye
So yeah turns out Johto requires you to grind for, like, 7-8 levels. But Mt Silver mons are high level enough to make that fairly quick.
Did you use items in battle?
Nah, i had leftovers on Kingdra and Crobat
No X items or revives either?
ofc not that either. Set mode and no items in battle are pretty much the rules i always go by now
I remember Chuggaaconroy beating Red with mons around level 55
GS or C? Might try the remakes if i can get them to work without the twilight menu
Crystal. It’s honestly a huge upgrade to GS. Better pokegear, battle tower, absolutely soulful aesthetics, Suicune plot, the most kino animations in the series, Kris (too bad she doesn’t become a NPC if you don’t play as her)… Crystal is arguably the biggest upgrade a 3rd version ever gave to the originals