So why exactly did this fail compared to vanilla classic considering there was way more hype for TBC and for years people said it was peak WoW?
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Did it fail? Seems like the people that like it are actively playing it.
it failed on Ganker, the only place that matters.
And Ganker is majority young or under 20s, which means the earliest WoW they ever played was mist of pandaria
No wonder that shit expac is so overrated by morons and furgays on this board.
It failed, the servers are dead as frick there are only a few that are active. The community is dead, its rarely posted about in all corners of the internet. its like something that exists that noone plays. Activision has actively worked to destroy the community of their products so this is another HOTS situation. Classic is in HOTS status right now.
>It failed, the servers are dead as frick there are only a few that are active.
That's because everyone left the smaller servers for the megaservers, they generally didn't quit.
Everyone went full moron and formed megaservers, you can’t tell me playing on a server with 30,000 people is a dead game.
Ganker is contrarian so it failed even though it has more players than retoilet.
Everyone was already quitting at the end of the classic cycle because it wasn't as fun as everyone remembered. Also the arbitrary changes they promised they wouldn't do reminded everyone why Blizzard doesn't deserve their money
Because people learned that TBC actually sucks
1. Cash shop shit
2. Nerfed content
3. No tier 5 at launch
Nobody cared about the paid character boost a week after launch, try again.
t. boosted retailcuck, have a nice day
Nah.
/spit
stay mad gay blizz is dead
incorrect. theres a reason they banned /spit
I tried to form a group for stockades and a level 70 druid private messaged me, complaining about boosts and telling me to quit the game
that is a complete lie, i am still mad about it, it did more damage to the game than any other poor decision, or lack of response from developing issues in the game, from blizzard.
You did not play TBC Classic, you have no idea what you're talking about, from someone who has played it almost daily
>cash shop shit
The mount made people mad for like 2 weeks but literally everyone forgot about it. I wish they didn't, but they did. No one quit and no on cares
>Nerfed content
This is cope. There were like 2 real nerfs on raid launches in the entire expansion, Muru ranged pushback removed and some meme with Mother Sharaz I forgot about. Also on Kael you don't get launched back up if you touch the floor but that doesn't impact the fight in any way. Every raid before their later nerf was in its correct state. People are just mad because they remembered BT being hard back when they were shit
>No tier 5 at launch
This is what kept the game alive. The trick to any healthy game lifespan is to trickle out content. It gave normies time to catch up and grind kara. Just like the correct call was to have an extended period of MC farm in vanilla before starting a faster patch cycle
>Nerfed content
TBC Classic has 2.4.3 versions of heroics, which saw a large number of changes (the tougher ones like Old Hillsbrad, Arcatratz and Shattered Halls being nerfed to the ground). Indeed, more so than raids that everyone knew were going to be easy if they were in a state that was legitimately cleared in retail, my feel is that a lot more people were excited to run 5-mans (just like 90% of tourists quit in vanilla Classic shortly after hitting 60).
That being said, raids in TBC Classic are only inconsistently pre-nerf, too. For example, Gruul was majorly nerfed in a hotfix/some 2.0.x patch, but TBC Classic has his final patch version. This isn't even one of those "bosses being changed left and right during progression" things, but you can see Gruul's higher health in early kill videos. And of course, what the game really needs isn't even pre-nerf, but custom tuning.
>No tier 5 at launch
The goal ought to be to make a good game, not to stretch out monthly active users or some other metric. Yes, with a sensible content progression schedule, TBC Classic would already have kicked the bucket for good and moved on to Wrath, so what? The T4 "phase" is dull because 25-man guilds don't have 25-mans to raid, and T5 phase is dull because you're entering it with better gear than you're supposed to have, exacerbate the problem of content being too easy.
>TBC Classic has 2.4.3 versions of heroics, which saw a large number of changes (the tougher ones like Old Hillsbrad, Arcatratz and Shattered Halls being nerfed to the ground)
You didn't play the game.
All you had to do was go to blood furnace and pull the the second pack, get triple thrashed by an adept and die on the spot. People avoided the place because they'd keep wiping on the gauntlet.
SHH was literally harder than in original TBC because classic was forever buggy as frick with charge and npc melee. Kargath would charge your healer and randomly melee him at the same time for an instant gib. There was literally nothing you could do sometimes except just retry.
Of course not, I'm not a shiteater giving money to neo-Blizzard, but I can look at video evidence and conclude that it is indeed the most nerfed versions of content. Show me a video of TBC Classic with Durnholde Lookouts (the patrols that were removed in 2.4 patch): you can't. If the content is difficult because it's bugged to the max, then it just serves to make Classic look even more laughably bad.
>get triple thrashed by an adept and die on the spot
Yes, big numbers is why TBC heroics are remembered as difficult, and while most bosses lack complex tactics (indeed, bosses routinely are the easier parts of the dungeons), the tuning forces you to play properly. Empirically, you can't really PUG the harder half of pre-nerf heroics on the private servers that have had them, while nowadays you can reliably PUG pre-nerf Cata heroics although with some difficulty on the tougher bosses like Corborus.
However, Shadowmoon adepts weren't even among the most noteworthy mobs for being tough, it's mobs like Bonechewer Ravener in Ramparts that were nerfed in 2.1, Durnholde Reinforcement (summoned by those Lookouts, so not extant in Classic) in OHF, and Arcatratz Sentinels double pull also removed in 2.1.
>Of course not
Then just stop posting, because all you're going to do is spout bunch of incorrect garbage. Everyone who played the game knows that the heroics in tbc classic were a mix of patches, with some changes (buffs and nerfs) making it in, some not.
I am not aware of a single detail where there was a patch change and TBC Classic heroics retain the original (in 95%+ of the cases, more difficult) functionality. Certainly not for any of the easily checkable or impactful ones like presence or absence of mobs, pulls being linked, damage type of Tempest-Forge Peacekeeper (prior to 2.1 they did arcane melee damage, so change to physical essentially reduces it to half or less), or whatever. Indeed, you would not expect there to be pre-nerf features because Blizzard said heroics would be post-nerf: it was only raids that were even supposed to be pre-nerf, although in that case, in addition to clearly deliberate changes like pushback on M'uru, they demonstrably have slipped from that goal. And if their MO has been to use 2.4.3 databases, as appears to be the case, and revert changes on case-by-case basis, the only direction of change you would expect possible would be for content to be in its later patch state, I can't see a world where they use 2.4.3 DBs, openly state they're going to use 2.4.3 values for heroics, and somehow manage to put earlier (pre-nerf) values to the game.
In any event, people don't care about if Thorngrin the Tender hits for post-nerf 3394-4796 (values taken from World of Warcraft Bestiary, a strategy guide the authors of which got a 2.2 database dump from Blizzard) or if it's pre-nerf (2.1.0 patch notes: "Thorngrin the Tender's damage has been reduced in Heroic difficulty"), they care about the big stuff. Maybe it is the case that TBC Classic heroics are indeed a mix of various versions, but in any way that actually matters, the big changes, they definitely have 2.4.3 database values.
What I can easily believe is that the content is "positively bugged" (making things more difficult than intended) - that's a well-known phenomenon from particularly earlier private servers and happens in retail too - but that doesn't make DB values pre-nerf.
When classic first launched with vanilla it had the similar issue. It started on a much later patch because the earlier patches weren't archived or whatever so we were playing with the super nerfed versions of a lot of raids for a long time.
People thought everyone just got massively better at the game but I honestly thought the game was bugged because it used some hack-frick retail hybrid for the classic wow client or because of starting on a later patch like mentioned above or maybe even a mix of the two
1.12.1 is massively nerfed, not just for the raids but especially for the dungeons.
Even in Season of Mastery they were too lazy to unnerf the dungeons.
I hadn't played season of mastery yet because I didn't feel like redo'ing classic right after I just finished it but I didn't know the dungeons were still nerfed. That kinda sucks
They weren't nerfed. He's just coping because he doesn't want to admit that Vanilla is just an easy ass game and he sucked dick back in 2004.
They did, Strath was nerfed multiple times and many more are undocumented.
>People thought everyone just got massively better at the game
They DID. Just fricking look at some early MC kill videos. Or Naxx world first videos for that matter, while noting that these are some of the best players. You could achieve almost double throughput by just not idly backpeddling and keyboard turning as seen in the videos, and effectively doubling your DPS uptime. It's only in late Wrath when top guilds start to consist of players that could by contemporary standards be seen as "good".
Honestly, it really shouldn't come off as a surprise that playing a game for a couple of thousand hours while being backed up by billions of hours of search for best practices by the community by large actually makes you play better. You should expect to see massive skill increase even a priori.
>The goal ought to be to make a good game, not to stretch out monthly active users or some other metric.
Stretching out active players is good for the game when it is an MMORPG.
TBC is and was always shit and I had been telling people that for years.
Vanilla > WotLK > TBC > getting raped with a cactus > all other expansions
>getting raped with a cactus
Don't give Blizzard any ideas.
>getting raped with a cactus
What does Diablo Immortal have to do with this?
>Diablo Immoral
ftfy now wheres my reddit gold
Legion absolutely mogs the shit out of TBC and is on par with WotLK and I personally consider it better
>Legion
>good
You have to be at least 18 years old to post here.
I'm 31 and I enjoyed it. Sorry you've let your life get into this mess.
Not really, it only seems relatively good because it came after the trashfire that was WoD.
Legion >>>>> MoP >>> Wrath > Cata > Vanilla > >>>>>>>>>>>> WoD > BfA > Your lukewarm troon take on expansions >> Shadowlands
Isn't legion the one where they got rid of skill trees? That's better than vanilla?
Cata reduced the trees to 31 points then MoP made them into the 3 choices for like 6 tiers, so yes Legion had no real tree.
Legion was a cluster frick of RNG and had the worst gearing experience of any expansion. Every single quest had a chance at dropping the best gear
>do random quests in random zones for random rewards with a random chance to get a piece of gear for a random item slot with random secondary stats and random tertiary stats and a random chance to have it be more upgraded and an even smaller chance for it to be very upgraded and every quest also has an astronomical low random chance of being a legendary which itself is from a pool of legendaries that range from being mediocre as hell to insanely overpowered
>Every single quest had a chance at dropping the best gear
That was good though, it meant that any content had the potential to give you a relevant reward so you didn't just spend your time AFK in Dalaran outside raids. Of course the spergs like you threw a tantrum though and ruined it.
No most people like to go get what they want. I want to run this dungeon to get this neck piece. I want to craft this weapon.
This idea that I need to log on each day and just do random quests like a mobile game and hope the slot machine drops the item in my lap is fricking dog shit
>This idea that I need to log on each day and just do random quests like a mobile game and hope the slot machine drops the item in my lap is fricking dog shit
You didn't have to do anything you didn't want to though. Raiding and M+ were the most efficient methods of gearing by far. Titanforged items from quests and random mobs were just an occasional bonus for actually playing the game instead of AFKing.
Then sit in dalaran and do your raids and get your necklace? How did them adding some non raidlogging mechanic effect you?
"NNNNOOOOOOOOO, THERE IS A 1 IN 10000 CHANCE THE QUEST WILL GIVE ME.A PEICE OF GEAR THAT HAS 1456 STATS INSTEAD OF 1455!!!! SO I HAVE TO DO TO BE BiS!!!!"
absolute king gigachad take, i hate Black folk who fellate legion as the best expansion ever. In fact, it was the last push towards troonyhomosexualry we have today. Not a game, but a schedule. Not something you play, but something you grind.
Even WoD was better. Even though there was frick all to do, it was a game, not a chore.
>Not something you play, but something you grind.
The problem is your sperg mentality forcing you to minmax and chase top parses. People with a healthy approach to the game loved Legion.
People with a healthy approach to WoW quit in Cata, who the frick do you think you're fooling
losers collecting flowers and afking in dalaran 95% of their time loved legion. The expansion absolutely axed the playstyle of playing 10 hours a week and clearing mythic raids in top 50 (the patricians gaming plan)
It was literally a chore to log in every hour to update garrison mission table shit, Legion had the same problem
all 3 tiers of WoD are the peak of WoW raiding, the raid and dungeon design was so much worse in Legion and after.
No that was MoP. They wanted to streamline talents to make it more like Diablo 3 and because knuckle dragging troglodytes were somehow too stupid to figure out talent trees.
legion is only remembered fondly by people who play gacha games
your opinions suck dick more than your mother does on her suck for a buck saturday night special.
OP the game did poorly for many reasons, not combating RMT effectively, not combating botting effectively, introducing a level boost, introducing a level boost that was easy to abuse, preventing guilds from maintaining an adequate raiding 25man schedule in phase 1 due to blocking off ssc/tk, stretching out both phases far too long and causing a mass exodus of extremely bored single character players who sweated and burnt themselves out for no reason at all.
Lack of communication or interaction with community to gauge its desires better, refusing to hire GMs to combat RMT, the list goes on, the game itself is still fun and diehards will keep playing but blizzard have handled all this rather poorly. And they arent gonna get better either.
Reddit is down the hall kiddo
No anon, YOU are the r*ddit, liking any expansion post-wrath is pure r*ddit homosexualry, they're all garbage, because only a shit eating moron completely lacking self respect would play past Cata at all. The game died when Arthas did.
>Muh Arthas
oh wow, a cop out response with no substance by some seething moron who got btfo, what a surprise, i don't value the opinions of shit eating cucks who pay blizzard for an awful product, you can tell me X r*tail expansion is good, and i will tell you, you're a shit eating cuck and i don't care what you think.
Game died when Arthas did, the developers who made the game good, had either quit or been forced onto other projects long before ICC was even released. Simple as.
>They hated him because he told the truth
>Anything above vanilla, fricking Cata of all things
Get a load of this pleb and his pleb opinion
>WotLK > TBC
have a nice day
Nta but TBC is utter garbage and has never been able to keep even a single server going with decent pop because it's so bad
He's completely right. Go play on a private server or create your own and you'll understand just how shit it was.
TBC had good zones, 5-mans and raids. Wrath had none of that outside of one memeraid. It's fricking shit, move on.
Wrath had good zones, but Azjol'Nerub being cut and a couple of zones being unfinished makes it a less polished continent than Outland imo.
The dungeons were fun also but incredibly undertuned, the best way to enjoy the dungeons is unironically on Retail with timewalking since they are not a complete push over.
Classes in Wrath are overall more fun to play, arguably the best the game has ever seen. A couple of them are involved by any standard and would compare favorably to any spec in Cata and beyond in terms of mechanical complexity, but it also strikes a balance between there being more than a handful of buttons to push and despite ongoing homogenization efforts, classes feeling like organic developments of the original vanilla ones, rather than overdesigned builder-spender kind of shit with ubiquitous medium cooldowns that make lows feel really low and all that.
Seeing as that playing your class is 99% of what you do in the game (even if Wrath tries its best to upset that with clunky meme vehicles), that is a huge fricking deal. That being said, I wouldn't bother with blizzlike Wrath either. Indeed, I'm in habit of quitting after the Ulduar race.
The vehicles are the first system/feature Blizzard failed with and people with nostalgia for Wrath gloss over it.
WOTLK is just TBC perfected. I’ve played both TBC and WOTLK and WOTLK is better in every regard. Better class changes, better zones, better pacing, better loot, better end game, better quest plots, etc.
Plus it’s THEE expansion for paladins, making them just about the best for any role and makes the last 20 levels of the game go by much faster and more fun since all the undead are weak to holy magic.
Go play your TBC with the worst end game expansion (Outlands and SHITrath City)
>Better class changes
yes and no, hybrid classes becoming overpowered was a problem that continues today in retail. removing party/raid buffs from certain specs made you only bring the meta spec.
>better zones
Northrend is almost as unfinished as WOD Draenor
>better pacing
Depends what you mean, TOC was not worthy of it's own raid tier for 6 months.
>better loot
No, Wrath made previous tier gear useless with overpowered catch up gear for the casuals
>better end game
No, not even close. People still do Kara right now on TBCC. No one was doing Naxx or Ulduar once TOC came out.
>better quest plots
yes and no, everything building up to Ulduar/Yogg was mostly well done, Battle for Undercity/Wrathgate was solid. Everything else was weak especially with how overdone Arthas was and Anub'Arak/Frost King Malakk being cut.
Northrend btfos outland and its not even close. Also every class is viable and fun to play in both pve and pvp.
>Outlands is better than Northrend
Any opinion you ever have, about anything, ever, henceforth, shall be entirely discarded and you shall be dedicated the title “moron” from this day, henceforth.
MoP had the best class design and gameplay and WotLK is second
MoP just homogenized the classes even further from cata you moron What the frick do you mean It had better classes
most classes in MoP had 3 rank 1 viable specs and every single one had at least 2, this never happened before and i assume it didn't happen again
>homogenized
im tired of this diapershitter buzzword being thrown around because every class has some form of interrupt
MoP was the only time in wows history where you rolled a class and not a spec because you knew you had real options when hitting level cap even if you weren't playing a hybrid
and the gameplay itself was so fricking fun
mop baby they literally made every healer have magic dispel on an 8 sec cd with mop before that healers had identity
MOP classes are fun since they were like super heroes but the homogenization was very bad
TBC > MoP > WotLK > Cata > Vanilla > Legion > WoD > BfA > Sneedolands > Dragonshite
Any other take is wrong. This is the OBJECTIVE xpac tier list.
pic related, you're wrong homosexuals.
true, min-max meta sweaties ruined a lot of the social aspects of the game and steered all progression towards emulating their effective, but utterly cringe and soulless play styles.
Correct opinion. Early Vanilla is the best, then it gets progressively worse with every patch and expansion. People who prefer expansions have been brainwashed by Blizzard and modern gaming culture to be min-maxers and they claim some raid, pvp or balance in their expansion of choice is the best or some other stupid shit
i enjoy vanillas soul and leveling experience, the freeform nature of it, where you can simply pick your own leveling path, no other mmo has come close to that process, but the endgame is overly worshipped now, and the endgame that Wrath offers is vastly superior, the leveling itself is on par, but only in short doses, and the rot was already starting to set in, tryhard cringe quests with the lich king waltzing in like a saturday morning cartoon villain, very cringe.
For me it's Legion/MoP>>>>
else. I've been playing since '04 and I fricking hated vanilla the only good thing was the questing and exploration. Everything else was frustrating as frick.
TBC is just not a very good expansion. It has never been able to sustain a decent population on private servers.
>why did a dogshit ten level world of the worst zones not do as well as a 60 level 40+ zone world?
BC is pure nostalgia.
because everyone who decided to try and play it realized they had to play with the same autistic angry anti social morons that still play retail wow
the worst part of wow is the playerbase and no amount of nostalgia makes it worth playing with those mouth breathers
because people got burned out from classic, including my friends and me
only the biggest addicts remained for TBC and they rushed through the game in a matter of days
They should have just launched the game on patch 2.1, with all three raid tiers open. That would have kept most players busy for months, and given hardcore guilds stuff like glaive farming to keep them hooked.
they should've had the raids that were available on the original TBC release for classic TBC. All the raids up to hyjal were there on launch, the raids gated themselves with quests and progression naturally but oh no blizzard can't help but treat the players like morons and frick shit up
they thought they did, but they didnt
turns out tbc was actually pretty shit
People wanted to play Vanilla, they just didn't want to dump another 10 years of their life into it
Classic should have had seasonal resets since "THE JOURNEY!!!!" is the only thing these beaten housewives can still bring themselves to defend
I remember the streamers all talking about the journey, then launch hit and they all stayed inside dungeons spamming them with AoE. Then they hit 60, ran more dungeons and then finally raids. Later on they'll claim that they wanted to go out into the world and quest but couldn't because they'd get ganked because they chose a PvP server but don't want to PvP.
BC is god tier for starting zones
but outlands is shit
I'm starting to think that it was WOTLK>TBC when in mind i had the reverse order so i will have to try out WOTLK classic and see which nostalgia was wrong.
It didn't fail, the raid logs were plentiful and even now the levelling population is incredibly healthy.
Nothing was going to come close to Classic's hype, it was an anomaly that a lot of people missed out on back in the day. Most people played TBC since that's when WoW became a mega hit or at least levelled through Outland multiple times in Retail.
To critique TBC however and another reason it doesn't reach Classic heights is simply because it isn't as good and the difficulty curve got higher. The dungeons being linear hallways were not as fun, Heroics and the raids pre nerf is too hard for most normies, the Raids pre-nerf are hard even by today's standards, Outland can be depressing visually for normies/alliance players and people generally didn't enjoy it as much as the old world.
There is also other little things like Warcraft fans went in expecting to see Illidan all the time and Blizzard devs wanted to hide Illidan away as a end game goal and make his first encounter at Black temple exciting, this is imo was a great idea but casuals hated it and it's the reason Arthas constantly appears in Northrend.
I will agree except for the zone designs. TBC was fricking amazing ESPECIALLY compared to the soulless crap we have now.
A big problem is they didn't add anything to it. I would have loved another raid or added content to bladespire. Same way we could have had cool new vanilla content
>retail only came with 4 zones
this will never not shock me
TBC
>11 zones
>16 dungeons
>3 capital cities
>2 new races
>jewelcrafting
>new battleground
Shadowlands
>4 zones
>the maw
I seriously cannot imagine how one can still be subbed to WoW paying monthly as well as buying the new expansions
TBC also had 6 proper raids and 2 small ones.
I actually love Outland, but it gets a lot less love than Northrend.
Hellfire feeling very much like a Horde zone visually and the general difficulty of Outland not being a complete cake walk turned off the normies.
Maldraxxus was better than every zone in TBC except Zangarmarsh
Most of the classic specific issues that popped up were not addressed at all and continued to plague the game after they launched TBC Classic. If you weren't firmly into it by the time they unlocked Draenei and Blood Elves, you were kinda fricked because the vanilla zones were dead as frick in most servers that weren't overpopulated.
Also unlike vanilla classic, the only people left over were the minmaxing addicts so you had shit like dungeon groups demanding you to have vanilla raid gear going in. Again, if you weren't deep into it already, you had a massive hurdle to overcome which fed heavily into the level boost being a thing.
At the end of the day, it was the playerbase combined with negligence from Blizzard. TBC had its flaws but even if it was a completely flawless expansion at the time of its original release, that couldn't save it from all the shit that was happening in classic.
MoP > Wrath > Cata > WoD > Legion > TBC
Objective facts
Cata and WOD are not good. Out of all the good expansions Wrath is the worst due to it's low difficulty and unfinished content.
TBC always sucked to me. When I played vanilla during it's original run and they announced it I wasnt happy. Azeroth had a comfy fantasy setting and now we had to go to outer space and all the zones besides Nagrand were ugly. Wotlk at least was a bit more grounded and down to earth but nothing compares to the zones in the original game
for me, tbc is the goat experience. my biggest complaint is resto druids and lack of world bosses.
Why did several million people play Classic, despite it being worse than private servers where it counts, and private servers having never achieved such numbers (my guesstimate would be that some 1M-2M people have ever played on any private server of any expansion)? The numbers don't have much to do with how good it is, but hype and FOMO. You could also look at the popularity of vanilla prior to Nostalrius, a mechanically completely unremarkable server, and see that it was merely on-par with TBC in terms of popularity, while it was Wrath that was by far the most popular, and see the same thing. Or you can look at Season of Mastery and see that vanilla there is vastly more dead then TBC Classic.
That being said, there's a number of other reason:
>Large majority of all players actually are not in it for endgame (effectively everyone quit vanilla Classic too after hitting 60), and in the absence of FRESH, there's an unresolvable coordination problem of getting people to level
>A lot of people, even though they were duped to level in Classic instead of Wrath or TBC with their better class mechanics and added quests to more annoying level ranges, did get their fill on that count and wouldn't have joined anyhow
>The faction balance and economy of extant servers is irrecoverably ruined
>The game was ousted to have hosted the worst community known to man
>People don't like to enter a game where they feel they'll be irrecoverably behind (see: people entering TBC with Naxx BiS, thousands of gold, etc)
>moronic decisions like lack of T5 at launch, post-nerf content, the worst-of-all-worlds implementation of arenas that's not accurate to any patch, cash shop shit left a sour taste in a lot of people's mouths
>People realized Classic servers are shit (they're even technologically shit, being laggy pieces of garbage with shit pathing, etc) and "beating the game" (T3) was a natural point to cut their losses and quit for good
So you're saying that we thought we did, but we didn't?
Well, yes, "most people" don't know what they want. For starters, they thought they wanted blizzlike vanilla, but in actuality what they did want was temporarily level-locked Wrath FRESH: the "sense of adventure" or whatever isn't about vanilla mechanics magically empowering you with power of friendship, it's about vanilla leveling content being really good and server launches being a way to make that content feel lively. But absolutely not in the kind of way that gay at Blizzard meant when he uttered the infamous phrase: he was empirically, catastrophically, wrong: despite Classic being abysmally managed and implemented in just about the worst way possible, it has been a huge success with millions of people have at least given it a try and even after the exodus of tourists, the active playerbase remains comparable to neo-WoW retail.
People didn't want to play on an "illegal" server. You literally couldn't post the name of it on any website except Ganker. I'm amazed Nost was ever as popular as it was but it's a testament to how shitty Blizzard was at the time.
theres subredit for private servers, discord and even youtubers.
In 2016?
yeah, only homosexuals from twitch were banning streamers
covid
people were allowed to have no life for the time classic was going
>why did it fail
it didn't. Compared to vanilla classic launch it had fewer players at launch, but 90% of those tourists left after a month anyways.
The only failure the expansion has is that it mostly just has one sided megaservers, so world pvp is dead. It would have been dead because of flying anyways.
While a lot of people were disappointed by the BT patch because that was the patch they were waiting for besides launch patch, because BT was so easy they still somewhat enjoyed it because every normie could clear it. Launch patch and SSC/TK patch were top TBC tho
its shit
https://www.twitch.tv/clfbro
Because WoW was never good
Because it's a gimmick. The gimmick ended a few months into classic vanilla.
I think TBC was fine...for the most part at least.
>economy is incredibly fricked, especially with everyone just GDKP for Wrath
>boosting and farming gold has never been easier thanks to instant lvl 58
>it's never been easier to buy gold and the prices are rock bottom thanks to crazy inflation
Fresh is going to be good for the first few months but boosters, bots, and transfers are going to screw everything over.
>Kara
Ah... home...
>death match outside the front gate
>why the FRICK is Sephirothxx in charge range of the horse
>somebody fricking pulled a group we were skipping and wiped everyone since they panicked and ran into 3 more groups
>thanks for the holy fire butthole
>opera kino
>RUN LITTLE GIRL, RUN
>final boss grows a brain and perfectly spaces his infernals
>spoopy ghosts throughout
Vanilla is so ridiculously superior to tbc it's unreal
For me it was
>Playerbase changed
There was just much less of a social element in both classic and tbc rereleases thanks to discord and people being more autistic and miserable
>Raiding sucks
raiding sucks. it sucks to do the same content over and over, in classic too, and people aren't as patient when you already know all the content that will come out.
raids are lame. if thats what players are supposed to do for months on end i'd rather take a kick to the dick
CLASSIC WAS SHIT
PEOPLE WHO WERE STILL PLAYING BY NAXX WERE GRIPPED BY SUNK COST FALLACY
ALL THE PEOPLE WHO STAYED FOR NAXX GOT WEALTHY BEYOND ANY REASONABLE MEANS. MY ENTIRE GUILD WAS ABLE TO RAID LOG FOR THE ENTIRETY OF TBC WITH THE AMOUNT OF GOLD WE MADE FROM CLASSIC. WE DID ONE SUNWELL BEAT IT AND ALL QUIT.
THE FRICKING TIMETABLE FOR CLASSIC AND TBC WAS COMPLETELY FRICKED TOO 6 MONTHS PER CONTENT PATCH IS TOO SPREAD OUT. THOSE GREEDY gayS AT BLIZZ FRICKED OVER TBC LAUNCH BY GIVING US TOO MUCH TIME TO GET FULL BIS FOR EVERYONE. THERE WAS NO CHALLENGE.
I WILL STICK WITH PRIVATE SERVERS IN THE FUTURE
STILL FUN ON PRIVATE SERVERS
Unless you did extensive testing on the PTR you didn't beat Sunwell on your first night. And if you did do that then you didn't really do "one" Sunwell, now did you?
Are you rolling on fresh WotLK servers and if yes, which type? If I decide to resub, I'll be going on RPPvP to avoid people like you because I used to be like you.
It was fun and fine but people burnt out on classic and i have no idea why they refused to put in fricking dungeon finder on launch those fricking morons.
So another point, coming from classic its amazing how shit the expansions seem to be. It removes the grand huge world, going between continents and story. Why didnt they just expand upon the main areas? Its like every expansion just treads this dull ass new zone where everyone just stays instead of this massive cool world thats already made
Cata ruined a lot of it too with instancing.
There was 2 ideas with one of them being continue updating the existing world and add in the south seas/pandaria, the other was Outland. The Outland team ended up winning but some of the old world content was finished up and ended up in TBC (Quel'Thalas, Zul'Aman, Karazhan, Caverns of Time)
Another problem was the team legit had a problem with adding in new uninstanced areas that people could access without buying the expansion and they didn't want players running into areas like the caverns of time and being blocked by an invisible wall. This is why even today you can't fly to Quel'Thalas since it's a TBC instance and the reason the Karazhan Crypt was never used as a questing zone for the Karazhan attunement.
>This is why even today you can't fly to Quel'Thalas since it's a TBC instance and the reason the Karazhan Crypt was never used as a questing zone for the Karazhan attunement.
This doesn't make sense though, because the area outside Kara is part of the quest chain with 70 content and can be accessed by everybody.
Because those areas were already accessible in Vanilla. Kara Crypt wasn't used because they decided to make most of the attunement in Outland.
The CoT interior wasn't accessible yet there is nothing stopping those without the expansion from exploring there. It's more likely that the Crypt was just scrapped.
>The CoT interior wasn't accessible yet there is nothing stopping those without the expansion from exploring there
You had an invisible wall blocking you
One of the zone designers said the Kara Crypt was scrapped because the devs didn't need them. Either because they moved the Kara attune to mostly Outland or possibly the Warlock quest chain to open the Dark Portal was cut.
you think you do but you don't
You think you don't have phones but you do
If there's one thing I'm glad for classic, it's that it motivated me to seek out private servers for old MMOs to get that old MMO experience.
tbcc just solidified why tbc is the best version of wow
keeps most of the great design ideals from vanilla while polishing the edges (hybrid specs balanced, professions given meaningful rewards and constant progression alongside raid content, reputation system actually put to use)
tbc is just good vanilla
I'm still playing it. It's not a good game, but it's fun and nostalgic, and my server is very populated.
It failed, but it didn't fail me.
Classic was in the news for months before launching; barely anybody knew about BCC.
Level boosts, imagine playing against people who use real money to get a gear and level advantage over you instantly that you can never overcome. And the games been solved for 18 years, so once the level boosted goons hit max level they are already equipped in BiS ready to gatekeep anyone that didn’t level boost
It’s a virgin simulator
Microtransction
wokism
twitch cyberbums(streamers)
its doing fine and tbc is pretty boring raidlog expansion. vanilla was more popular because there was more fomo at start.
most of these people are chinese bot btw.
no they arent. these are only the people doing raids and arena
Are humans in wrath really that much better than everyone else? My buddy wants to play Wrath and play a human death knight he claims their ability is so much stronger in PvP because its essentially a free trinket slot making your ability a scaling trinket that keeps getting better overtime. I want to play Hunter in wrath though if I do play but I don't remember humans being hunters until Cata
Yep. During original wrath, the Arena leaderboards were 95% Alliance.
Yes and no, people have realised how good shadowmeld is as well now and the meta has changed a bit due to private servers and general game knowledge increase.
Racials do need to be disabled in rated PVP already, in retail Orc is simply too good. Nerfing every man for himself in wrath classic will just make people swap to Night Elf.
So Horde sucks ass in Wrath? Wont that create a further imbalance issue?
horde is better for pve
Blizzard might change it, but i also think they want people to faction change to human for $$$.
It doesn't, the racials are still strong except for the long, long, long overdue WotF nerf.
no blizz will let you choose racials in pvp so their faction remains king
People realized old raids sucked and every class has very little depth
Tigole and the gang getting in killed the whole company.
Game stopped being about the world and started being about encounters and treadmills.
because classic killed any and all hype and good will people had
open wide classic bucks here comes a new feature
oh noooOOOOOO
>Lich king
>KING
>implies MALE
Won't something think of the current year?!
It didn't fail for me. I had a lot of fun with TBC. Just wish they didn't introduce character boosts. It would also be nice if they managed servers so they don't end up 99.9 / 0.01.
The biggest problem with classic and I have no idea why nobody ever complains or talks about this.... but the fact that we start in the last patch of the expansion and play the whole way through is huge. At the end of the expansion classes are way too strong and it makes the content extremely easy. If they just released the patches with class changes how they did in classic the game would be a lot better.
nah they patched it for a reason. some classes are broken in earlier patches and then become dogshit the next. just buff the raids if you want harder content
Why would they want to re-live the experience of players REEEEEING when their favorite class gets hit by the nerf bat?
classic was a genuinely one of the best games of all time.
tbc was a DLC island.
it failed because its on the same servers moron. Blizz showed they couldnt run Classic for shit. it was botted and hacked to hell and back with zero moderation. why the frick would anyone want to play TBC or Wrath on those servers after seeing that?
to follow on up this, literally anyone in this thread saying they played on classic during TBC or Wrath is a total fricking moron. what the actual frick is wrong with you. there are much better servers out there.
Also
>wrath confirmed to allow boosties eventually
>pvp servers hopelessly unbalanced toward one side or another
>raidloggies and bots make up more than half the playerbase currently
Because historically, BC was the shift from Alliance being most popular to horde, thanks to blood elves. Pretty much every server is 95%+ horde, with only a few alliance servers, which means pvp and world feel is completely dead.
It isn't because of Blood Elves. It's because Ally racials are total shit compared to Horde so if you care about PVP at all you play that side.
Still way more alive than retoilet, from what I see
Cash shop and sweaty meta killed it for me
Wrath > Cataclysm > who cares lol
Cata would have been fine, had we gotten cool races and not furries and goblins
i dont like people so i just run WOTLK 3.3.5 Trinitycore server on my family LAN
TBC dies after T4 and all the reasonable people quit then.
T4? Phase 1 was the most boring shit in the world and lasted way too long. BT was literally the only good raid in TBC.
Honestly, while I love Classic, I just couldn't get into TBC. Yeah Kara is cool and all, but Tempest Keep and SSC felt like a slog. Once those came out I just lost interest hard, and then it occurred to me why I could keep going with Classic and not TBC.
TBC is way too endgame focused and not focused enough on the world and player interaction. Especially with the introduction of dailies, as people just log on to do those and raidlog, which is super boring.
The best part of Classic was the world and the people in it, and TBC just doesn't have that same feeling. This is why I like Turtle WoW, as they added new content but kept it all in Azeroth as it should be. Call me a boomer, but Classic is just better and more memorable overall. All Classic needed was more content, and Turtle fricking delivers.
https://turtle-wow.org/#/home
ITT: Wrathbabies getting excited because they're finally "winning"
Sorry, but you are an eternal joke and Wrath will always be cancerous casualized shit.
Wrath was literally more challenging than anything before in WoW bar Sunwell.
>Wrath
>Challenging
Yeah I guess LK25 Heroic and maybe 0 Lights Yogg kek.
can you read?
TBC private servers were the best but your favourite streamer can't tell you about it because he never played them.
>overtuned raids with tight enrage timers that were challenging even for top guilds
>steady inflow of new players so you could join a T4 guild even in later patches
>no preppers/pumpers/lil asmons and other people who don't even want to play the game
and most important of all
>no third worlders because they were all contained on warmane's wotlk
hopefully stormforge's fresh TBC next year manages to bring all those back. otherwise I'm not touching this game again
More people played TBC Classic actively than Vanilla Classic.
TBC was never good
Can't wait for WOD classic.
It was truly the best extension.
people are just mad because we spend too much time in hellfire citadel.
I didn't play it because they sold boosts, that's not in the spirit of vanilla. Right now I'm playing on private servers, hyped for Epoch WoW in like 8 months or so.
Epoch looks good, i wish Classic WoW never happened because private servers finally got good with scripting and custom content, but most people got their fix from Classic and won't go back to private servers.
Having said that Turtle WoW's population is growing fast, but i don't know how much room is left for Epoch.
https://ironforge.pro/population/tbc/Firemaw/
>Blizzard locks Firemaw character creation
>in one week Horde all coordinate and mass transfer off the server to Golemagg
>now both NA and EU's largest servers are PVP servers in name only with only one faction being played on each side
>Blizzard insists this is a problem they're trying to resolve yet every solution just makes it worse
just merge one sided servers.
Well the problem is they can't because Firemaw had 2-3 hour server queues before the mass exodus, and that's without any new content about to release. Queue times will only get worse as WotLK releases. Problem is everyone wants to play with the most amount of people possible, which means playing on a single faction server
So yeah, merge a 2-3 hour queue alliance server with 2-3 hour queue horde server. Problem solved. Or are you saying that blizz skimped so much on the servers they are getting terrible bottlenecks like this?
the servers are just too big. i think gehennas has 15-20k online at peak time and now imagine adding 15k more. It will become absolutely unplayable unless they add 50 layers
>15-20k online is a lot
original wrath servers had like 6k online at most.
biggest private servers have 6-7k with 50:50 balance and everywhere is packed as frick
megaservers have 15-20k online on a single faction.
its actually moronic and unplayable if they didn't have layers
You do realise that wrath had about eight times more people than now, right? Without any layered servers to boot.
and do you relaise that there were like 200 realms?
>megaservers have 15-20k online on a single faction.
They don't. Ironforgepro shows LOGS and players raid with multiple alts. One person can therefore count for 2-4-6 characters, maybe more if you consider how easy it is to pay for a boost and gear.
I haven't run census on gehennas, but here's earthshaker. It has 2.5k-3.5k peaks and ironforge pro shows 5.2k logged characters per week
gehennas has 26k logged characters so 5 times more so around 15k. Probably even more because all the bots are there too. Gotta run census there some time to see but it takes too long and I cba
15-20k on a single server is a frick ton, yes.
If Blizzard had balls, they'd just deny character transfers if it would cause faction balance to swing past some percentage.
But alas, they like money more than they like promoting a positive player experience.
It's not just about transfers, although it makes the problem worse. Particularly in TBC with its well-known Horde-preference (unlike Wrath where Alliance is the PvP faction and Horde is the PvE faction, or the reverse in vanilla, Horde is better for both no less), there have been private servers that, despite being more proactive than Blizzard at trying to fix the issue, still slid into lopsidedness. After all, past a certain threshold of population imbalance, the outnumbered faction really starts to feel the burn. For example, if there's a dozen people in some farming spot and the balance is just 60-40, you realistically exist only on mercy of the outnumbering faction as no amount of player skill allows you to overcome the numerical advantage of the enemy. With bigger population or worse ratio, even organizing a party to farm would not tip the scales. Generally speaking people want to play both factions roughly equally (just look at
) but any extant imbalance has a habit of cascading. People who prefer playing ally but can't deal with 60-40 balance will quit or swap factions/servers, and then the balance is 65-35 and even more people quit, up until you can't as much form a guild and the last holdouts are forced out, too. Worse, people know this and if they expect a faction to be disfavored, because they don't want to end up in a dead faction, they'll swap pre-emptively! Empirically, 60-40 or thereabouts is the point of no return. It's not a surprise that Classic realm populations are either 0-100, or 50-50.
Anyway, a server like Atlantiss Karazhan had seals for both factions, free transfers from the more popular to less popular faction, perks like free respecs to Alliance, AND faction queue enabled from the start enforcing at worst 45-55 balance. Because it's ultimately mostly about signaling commitment to faction balance, queue doesn't actually come up, but just consider how seriously they take the issue compared to Blizzard.
>Anyway, a server like Atlantiss Karazhan had seals for both factions, free transfers from the more popular to less popular faction, perks like free respecs to Alliance, AND faction queue enabled from the start enforcing at worst 45-55 balance. Because it's ultimately mostly about signaling commitment to faction balance, queue doesn't actually come up, but just consider how seriously they take the issue compared to Blizzard.
Yeah, that seems like a smart way to do it. But we know that there's the smart way, and there's the Blizzard way.
Tbc is shit. There are some good areas and raids but the classes were just as bad and unfinished as they were in vanilla.
>People play WoW Classic
>Realize that the game is boring and fricking sucks and always has
>People stop playing classic and retail continues to rot away
Good too see blizzshit failing so hard.
>wow sucks when I'm paying for it
>but it's great when I'm playing private servers and not paying for it
Can't wait for Everlook to be up for a few months before gummy has an aneurysm and deletes the server like he's done before.
the retail min maxing and meta mindset
people finalyl realised they are 40 now 19 anymore and world of warcraft was never a good videogame, it was just the only mmo than ran on toasters stable enough and online gaming was still a novelty.
Compounding issue. When TBC classic came out it had multiple things that would make players drop it or soured peoples reception to it: an entirely new end game thats a lot more tedious then classics, had the store shit and level boosts, the blizzard controversy started to get in full swing near the start and blizzard started to actively censor their game to seem more progressive to those sjws crying about it.
piggybacking off this comment, TBC is when Tigole's poopsock style raiding became the point of the game, but it still wasn't all the way there yet (that was WoTLK)
so to modern day WoW players who only play for the end game, Vanilla and TBC are a bit of a letdown
I think WoTLK is going to feel a lot more familiar to modern players who don't care so much about the journey but about the destination
No changes became
>Cash shop mount and special hearsthone
>Paid boost to 58
>Injecting retail wow arena ranking and matchmaking to tbc, instead of the older, superier matchmaking and ranking system
>Same faction battlegrounds
>Removal of spitting on players and other assorted emotes
They tainted and destroyed classic tbc, though honestly, it was most likely the paid boost to 58 and cash shop mount that did tbc in. Destroyed everyones immersion and feeling of purity of the game seperate from retail wow, and completely destroyed the balance on a bunch of worlds cause everyone could now reroll in 5 seconds for 50 bucks. Servers that had maintained a good population balance all of classic suddenly were 70-80% horde 30-20% alliance. Completely destroyed the servers.
>Destroyed everyones immersion and feeling of purity of the game seperate from retail wow, and completely destroyed the balance on a bunch of worlds cause everyone could now reroll in 5 seconds for 50 bucks. Servers that had maintained a good population balance all of classic suddenly were 70-80% horde 30-20% alliance. Completely destroyed the servers.
this is a good point, it might even be why we haven't seen them mention a new level boost for wrath players, the tbc one was such a disaster they may not inflict another one on us.
Stop laughing, it might be true! technically they don't NEED to with deathknights being an option as well, botting and gold farming DKs will be a massive issue.
I can't wait for s4 to be over so we can see how moronicly strong Horde was.
Everyone knew it was bad after the spergs ruined vanilla with their aoe zf farming and other stupid shit that didn't happen in actual vanilla.
It didn't. You'll keep seething though.
TBC doesn't have AQ Gates event, there is less YouTube™ content, The Bald Black person isn't streaming it so naturally, newbie zoomoid twitch algorithmics like (You) don't see much of it.
Good job on outing yourself, moron.
>No fresh
>Level boost that killed all content below Outlands
>Boosting and AoE farming from lets say mages still not nerfed
>Content too fricking easy
>No bans on bots that ruined the server economy further
because classicdrones already realized they got memed into buying and playing a shitty game for the second time.
100% it was the mount
TBC isn't a good casual experience, also the zones fricking blow ass
you could watch multiple in depth videos on youtube instead of asking the moronic zoomers here who never even played the game why it failed.
Read like it was made by a 14 year old who thought Arthas was cool
WOTLK introduced achievements, plus I played it when I was a kid, clearly the best exp boomers
People brought modern gaming mentality into an old game, the result is a pool of stale cum and sweat.
i was all in for classic, they had my money, i was in a fun guild and was doing endgame content in vanilla, had a blast, when the dark portal pass came out and I was seeing that stupid lizard everywhere and saw the constant stream of pathetic cucks in world chat justifying their purchase of a boosted class i just stopped caring, it ruins the feeling of seeing other high level players when you know they just swiped a credit card for a fast pass there, the community is spoiled, absolute fricking morons who dont know how to play their class ruining dungeon runs, just felt like retail, which I played classic to escape, no thanks bobby
>giving money to blizzard
>pet shop
>same grind as classic without the adventure
>averge wow player is drooling moron
its wonder it even got there
wotlk hype
wotlk hype
They really need to IRS the shit out of all those partaking in GDKP, gonna be people entering wotlk with hundreds of thousands of gold that you can easily trace back to people buying for real money from bots.
blizzard hates their customers and likes pay to win, they will just make fresh servers to reset the value of gold and make people buy again
it has approximately 300,000-400,000 players how is that a failure, classic continues to be a huge success for blizzard pic related was taken at like 2am
hello future former blizzard employee
people in 2022 really pay $15 a month to play this game that looks like morrowind? lmao
wow players are hardly something you could say person, more akin to pigs or dogs in reallity
you think if i go get ssris i'll be able to be a bugman that's fulfilled by a number going up too?
it's the best mmo and blizzard will start going under when classic wotlk is done, if you missed it it's your own fault or weren't lucky enough to find a not-autistic guild
Because a bunch of homosexuals made Vanilla unfun with their minmax autism. What was fun about it back in the day is that you really didn't know everything and people were still discovering shit. They also actually played the game back then instead of locking out certain classes out of dungeons because they weren't mage or warrior. The moment people started clearing MC with the most barest of gear and not even max level I knew the Vanilla and subsequent expansion dreams were dead.
>replying to zoomers
ngmi
Because people realised that the community ruined it. Classic was autistic losers abusing the game to min max like crazy, which wasn’t how 90% of players experienced it at the time. See the AOE farming. I paid for Classic to have comfy nostalgia and play an amazing time with a great community. I didn’t get that.
no sovl
dead world and instanced content simulator
The normies already had their fill leveling to around 30-60 in Classic and getting an extra 10 levels in shittier zones and poopsock raiding with the (proven by classic) most obnoxious tryhard playerbase wasn't a real catch.
Ganker in turn got filtered by the paid mounts and boosts so we don't have a real idea of the game in here. Either way it was less succesful thanks to the lost normiebase.
Classic aged like milk, all the nostalgia morons are too blind to see it. Wrath will probably have better numbers than Classic/BC but it will fall off hard after the first year and a half. ICC is a good raid but it gets old fast and raiding (in the WoW) sense is kind of dying everywhere.