Squad level engagements: Kill Team
Skirmish sized engagements: Combat Patrol
Anything bigger: Just play epic armageddon at that point.
This is the law.
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This but also don't play combat patrol or the new killteam.
They both really are just so, so horrible
spoken like a true nogames
Why do you like wargames that feel like mobas?
we play kt18 and kt21 using the character progression rules, our group is 8 regular strong but some of the guys and girls have brought friends who were sice curious along to watch or join in for team games.
we keep campaigns going all year long, most of us started with games like mordheim and armageddon shadow war and after we bought the kt18 starter and later octarius, we just added them to the rotation.
we've been to nottingham for tourneys so your arguements about the kind of players is valid because i've seen it first hand.
we don't play at local stores all that much, but we all have ourguys, to the point we houserule squadleaders getting additional rerolls against certain teams due to grudges picked up over the course of campaigns, i understand this is a thread for shitting on the game, but i enjoy it.
>i understand this is a thread for shitting on the game,
It's Literally one shill samegayging trying to sell a delusional narrative about hiw bad KT is and how if you're a based anon you should play some obsolete version of old rules that were DOA or nobody played even when they were new.
He's a butthurt sperg with no friends and probably insufferable neckbeard IRL.
He probably hates KT because It has become the default game also for older players that do not want to deal with the mess of a big 40k gsme. And that goes against his old good nu bad bullshit.
>N-n-no! Your the crazy ones! The game is not bad, your bad! They are the ones ranting and raving not me! I did not type out all this because im upset and the one play a shitty game!
>a delusional narrative about hiw bad KT is and how if you're a based anon you should play some obsolete version of old rules that were DOA or nobody played even
>And that goes against his old good nu bad bullshit.
Anon from
here. You're definitely mistaking me for a different poster because I also think the previous version of KT was a terrible game plagued with a myriad of issues and isn't worth anyone's time, and about the most generous thing I have to say about even the ""best"" edition of 40k is that it's barely serviceable. The number of rulesets GW has produced that are genuinely good can be counted on one hand, and no edition of KT or 40k are among them. If people are looking to get a fix of the 41st Millenium while actually playing a decent game, I'd recommend Epic or BFG.
Got a PDF for the epic rules?
There are two main versions that are typically played these days, Epic: Armageddon is the more popular of the two and you'll find all the resources you need for it here:
>https://tp.net-armageddon.org/
>http://epic-uk.co.uk/wp/army-lists/
NetEpic is the other one. It's a fan-maintained version based off of the previous Epic edition. Without getting into too much minutiae about the differences, I'll just say it's the crunchier of the two if that's your jam. You can find everything for it here:
>https://netepic.org/
Hope that helps, and enjoy! There doesn't seem to be one in the catalog currently but an Epic-scale general seems to pop up from time to time as well which can be worth checking out for inspiration and questions.
I agree that 40k has never been more than serviceable and that an epic scale game is a much better way to do play the batrle sizes it aims for, but the latest KT is a genuine good skirmish wargame even for nonGW standards (just like its said about Warcry, although I don't care for its AoS setting)
No game is perfect, but KT21 scratches the itch of playing with 28mm 40k minis better than any other ruleset out there.
Its popularity cannot be attribbuted only to GW pushing it when so many previous versions of a official 40k skirmish game were failures.
>Its popularity cannot be attribbuted only to GW pushing it when so many previous versions of a official 40k skirmish game were failures.
Of course it can. Previous Kill Team editions were not getting as much support and were less predatory in terms of sales model. KT21 is a video game with miniatures, literally a FOMO abomination with DLCs.
>but the latest KT is a genuine good skirmish wargame
It really is not. And on top of that it's not a good 40k game either. It only really appeals to people who don't care about 40k itself but are too lazy to seek out better and more niche skirmish games, thus stick themselves with KT21 because it's marketed more than any of its competitors.
or it's a skirmish game in the setting we actually like and enjoy
when you have the rules learned properly, you can get a decent game done in an hour
if you have enough people in the room, try this
have two people set up their 2k armies
have them take a squad and designate it a kt
have people run a mission of kt that fits the theme, like sabotage or assassination
have the winner of the kt match affect the big 40k game so that it confers extra VP, removes an enemy commander etc
its a lot of fun
>it's a skirmish game in the setting we actually like and enjoy
It doesn't really replicate the elements of 40k that make 40k what it is, though. KT18 or earlier just took /yourdudes/ and put them in a skirmish. KT21 does whatever it wants for the sake of competitive balance aka
>
While you are correct, the problem is this is like saying "Well you can still play 7th or 5th ed." Technically yes, but the foot work to get this done is not really feasible or goign to happen.
The reason why 40k is so successful is because the unspoken standard of the game, 2k points utilizing the current rule set. If you try and play anything outside of that you are really hard pressed to find anyone willing to do so, or looked at like a leper.
Its kinda one of the reasons i don't like 40k anymore, its just so....sterilized and sanitary now. Mostly thanks to the tournygays and GW pandering to them to make it the norm.
Gone are the days of showing up to the hobby shop and going "Hey anyone feel like doing a Planet strike mission? Or some attacker and defending stuff? or maybe make up a capture the flag type mission with regenerating troops?" any having multiple people go "Hell yeah sounds fun."
>its just so....sterilized and sanitary now. Mostly thanks to the tournygays and GW pandering to them to make it the norm.
thats
thats kind of the point
40k is two sides smashing into one another in games that take 3-4 hours to play, KT lets you get more games in, have yourdudes level up, gain injuries and character flaws, i understand you don't like it, and that's fine, but it works
plenty of lore to back it up
gets people into collecting and painting and into the wider hobby
better systems? there's arguements for that, sure
is it fun? sure is
>shitgames cultist reply
That first anon really pegged you guys.
Listen James, I called this a few replies ago, I know this thread is about Kill Team being shit, and everyone who enjoys it somehow being brainlets, and that if we like skirmish games over what warhammer "should be" we're having fun wrong, I'm just saying there are those that enjoy it for the casual nature, the systems have the tool for a narrative aspect and that will always keep us coming back again and again.
you really going to try to reason with a guy who is still defending 40k in 2024? do you have any idea how stubborn a person has to be to still be going to the mat for the memory of a game that hasn't been good in more than 20 years? things like "learning from mistakes" and "reevaluating based on new data" are not in that dude's repertoire.
>doesn't really replicate the elements of 40k that make 40k what it is, though.
Kasrkun working overtime (for free)
What really boggles my mind about the new KT is how it's managed to attract such a rabid, almost cult-like fanbase of tourneygay autismos who seem to have gaslit themselves into thinking its numerous issues make the game better, from the near complete lack of meaningful team customization and a poorly balanced compendium of shallow and undertuned placeholder rules (that you're expected to pay $50 for) to inane line-of-sight rules and """depth""" that amounts to rote memorization of what all 10 special dudes in your opponents team do. And all this dedication for a game which, at the end of the day, commits the biggest sin a game can: being fricking boring to play. I have never come across another miniature game that so heavily incentivizes doing absolutely nothing and punishes making any kind of remotely interesting play 9 times out of 10.
Hit the nail on the head.
>almost cult-like fanbase
This. KT21 reeks of sunk-cost fallacy. Pretty much every Kill Team player I know is a newbie that bought into what he considers "small 40k" to fit in. They unironically engage into tw*tter dramas, attack people playing other games and fricking shill for GW because they think they are obligated to defend the Big Daddy since they are playing with branded toy soldiers.
Yeah. These guys get it. nuKT is just so bad because of its terrible community.
You called it so hard that the Kill Team schizos are seething about you in the Kill Team General thread.
Its because that same crowd basically bullrushed themselves into the 40k hobby and squatted on it. GW saw they had wallets that still had money in it and pandered to them. These people also have no fricking self control and just mindlessly buy the objectivlly shitty and worse rules ever and eat it up and ruin it for everyone else.
They then sit there, with shit all over their face, screaming at you for not wanting to eat the shit with them.
40k in general is pretty fricking dog shit right now.
Nogames detected
This reeks of "has no idea how kill team works" or played it with some autismo that didn't explain it well enough to you or used too little cover.
KT is honestly dynamic as hell and good flanks and clever plans usually pay off.
Ill admit I don't do tourneys tho so maybe those suck? Idk.
this?
Thank you for your service
You're not wrong, OP.
My problem is that I lack the space for a 3D printer so I have to go third party.
Yeah i agree.
There is a reason why back in like 6th, if you dropped a Land raider on the table that was like, 1/4th of your army list.
The reason why i dont do this is because i dont like modern 40k, the rules are not the game i got into for.
Killteam is super borning and limited in scope. Herald of Ruin was a far better system and felt like 40k Mordhiem
Epic is alright but the problem is, they put in exclusively to HH, which i like HH, but having only SM, aux, and titans fighting is lame.
Not in epic armageddon. Get a 3d printer
You can still get that size of game, most people used to play 1000-1500, 1850 was what tourneygays were willing to go to. 2000 was a marketed number by GW to make people buy more
>You can still get that size of game
While you are correct, the problem is this is like saying "Well you can still play 7th or 5th ed." Technically yes, but the foot work to get this done is not really feasible or goign to happen.
The reason why 40k is so successful is because the unspoken standard of the game, 2k points utilizing the current rule set. If you try and play anything outside of that you are really hard pressed to find anyone willing to do so, or looked at like a leper.
Its kinda one of the reasons i don't like 40k anymore, its just so....sterilized and sanitary now. Mostly thanks to the tournygays and GW pandering to them to make it the norm.
Gone are the days of showing up to the hobby shop and going "Hey anyone feel like doing a Planet strike mission? Or some attacker and defending stuff? or maybe make up a capture the flag type mission with regenerating troops?" any having multiple people go "Hell yeah sounds fun."
>"Hey anyone feel like doing a Planet strike mission? Or some attacker and defending stuff? or maybe make up a capture the flag type mission with regenerating troops?" any having multiple people go "Hell yeah sounds fun."
Typical response now: "Hell no let's play a TOURNAMENT MISSION!! 2K POINTS!!!"
unironically yes that basically it.
"Mmmm nah lets just do 2 points and a mission outta the book"
which i could not mind if we got better missions and objective cards where each time you did a game it was something interesting.
Counterpoint: Bring a gun to the store, point it at your would-be opponent and force them to play a 1k narrative game at gunpoint.
Damn you fricking right anon.
Damn man I miss the old community that was fine with doing fun scenarios. We did a 20 point gladiator match once with everyone in a cage.
Back in 7th we had a GW shop and a GW manager who let us, advertised, and encouraged us to run a fan made Herald of ruin campaign over the summer. Between that and regular 40k campains over that summer one of the core guys helping run it, netted like over 170 games just himself. Now, me and him collectivly have only played like...ldk, a dozen or so games each? Because its just not that fun anymore. 8th onward the game got boring.
But Kill Team is currently terrible dogshit. Probably even worse than 40k on the fun scale combined with shite rules.
I'm sad people would rather play KT than Infinity.
This thread convinced me to finally be free of Kill Team 2021. It was good while it lasted but I've been hanging on despite its utterly terrible community for months now.
Bless.