Square Enix should return to Ivalice. It saved their ass in the past. FFT Remake + direct sequel and spin off games. Crystal Defenders was a good game btw
 CRIME Shirt $21.68 |
 DMT Has Friends For Me Shirt $21.68 |
CRIME Shirt $21.68 |
Square Enix should return to Ivalice. It saved their ass in the past. FFT Remake + direct sequel and spin off games.
They will just ruin it. Let it be, it was perfect. No need for a remake
fpbp
if they make something good again, then maybe I'll be ok with them touching it.
The only director who "cares" about Ivalice right now is YoshiP, and I do not want him or his team touching Ivalice at all.
Not a fan of what he did to XIV after Stormblood and not a fan of XVI either.
If you look at XIV, it takes a lot of visual elements from XII, he clearly likes Ivalice a lot but he very clearly can't replicate it.
Certainly if they make anything Ivalice-related at all it should not be another fricking remake.
Frick off with that. Make a game or don't.
The Ivalice raids and storyline in Stormblood were made by the FFT dude as far as I know.
They already did ruin it
But you're right, they'd ruin it more
Square Enix cannot be trusted with anything but Dragon Quest it seems, and even then only the versions without the obnoxious localizations
Honest question I've only played FFTAdvance
is FFT better? and if so, in what way?
It's better in everything except gameplay since Advance improved upon it.
The music is 11/10, art is way better and the story is one of the greatest
Yoshi P said it's time for another Ivalice game, I don't think he would be the head guy for the project though
https://www.thegamer.com/new-final-fantasy-tactics-game-its-time-yoshi-p/
so better theming/worldbuilding and better story as well as atmosphere.
Anything I should know before going in?
I remember with advance I had to restart because I didn't fully understand the combat system's depth.
Don't grind
Why is that?
understood
Grinding notoriously breaks the game. If you know what you're doing then certain class combos will frick the game sideways. And grinding for those class combos makes you get very strong, very fast. Random encounters scale with you but story encounters don't so by the time you finish grinding, the story maps become a cakewalk.
Good to know, thanks anons
I will give it a try, hopefully I cry because of the story and not the gameplay
The story is actually pretty good but also somewhat disjointed. Just playing through the game will mostly give you the POV of Ramza himself but there's a lot of contextual information in the Reports section of the menu. Things like what the world itself is doing or what general opinion and perception is. In one particular case there's a twist that you could totally miss because the information that has the set up is in the Reports or the character bios
Also the Rumors section of the bar
Don't listen to them. There is a boss you need to fight solo and you could potentially not be able to progress if you're too weak.
Also
>Draw your sword
Is a notorious part in the game too that soft locked a lot of people in their first runs. There are some maps that entail multiple battles in a row with no chance to readjust your team. And Draw Your Sword is a well known difficulty spike midway through the game. So most people make a habit of cycling between 2 save files, just in case they believe a map may be too hard for them.
The roof map is worse
They ways you will see to grind are brutally boring. It will look like you need to do it to experiment with stuff. But still just don't.
>Why is that?
I mostly agree with what others said, but I would also not be paranoid about it. Like, a few optional random encounters here or there are fun, taking a few extra turns to grind some JP isn't the end of the world and having a modest advantage in story battles won't ruin anything.
But it's very easy to grind so far ahead of the story battles that they become utterly trivial, and the grinding exploits in FFT, while fast, are indeed very boring to execute.
Save often
>Draw your s-
Keep a spare save, specially for battles that run one after the other
Always check the rumors in the taverns, and often. Different rumors will pop up in different taverns. These relate to side quests that pop up on the map
>Advanced improved on it
Yeah frick you and that judgement system. Any game that places restrictions on how you play and build your characters can eat a fricking dick.
[this poster has been sent to jail for talking down to smash bros on Ganker]
Thanks me for the reminder this system was shit.
I didn't exactly hate the system itself, but the idea of judges watching you every moment of the day just to frick you over if you used the wrong shade of purple sword during that fight with child murdering bandits made the world feel dystopian.
Judges were always the coolest parts of the later Ivalice games. Neat idea all around, and I always liked their implementation into the mechanics and story.
>made the world feel dystopian.
that's kinda the point
you're playing on the obnoxious kid's sandbox and he gets to make the rules
okay i got a chuckle out of that
It was just a stupid system that artificially increased the difficulty because, clearly, the AI would never frick up and get a card.
Generally it was easy to work around. But was I the only one who always got cards for copycat?
>It's better in everything except gameplay since Advance improved upon it
yes and no
the best gameplay is still A2 even if the story suffered because of it
How did it improve it supposedly? I played FFT on PS1 when it released and thought it was perfect.
note that this is purely subjective
>even more classes, which means more mix and match combinations
>the judge laws are more balanced and represent a risk vs reward, the risk being not being able to revive if you break the law and the reward being a buff to your group as long as you uphold the law and end of battle goodies
>abilities are more snappy compared to FFTA, so there's less downtime within the fights themselves
>clan trials are an interesting take on getting new buffs from upholding the law
>bazaar is an innovative way of gating gear progress, and it falls onto the player which equipment they can unlock first over others
now for some negatives so you know that I can recognize the flaws
>story is more slice of life-y and less serious, compared to the other games this is a downgrade but I'm not bothered by it
>on normal difficulty you can just ignore laws and clan trials and be fine 90% of the game, to add to this you can just unga your way to the final boss with the only roadblock being the antlion fight
>bazaaring gear can be bothersome in the sense that it creats a constant loop of checking the shop just to see what you can bazaar
>Seeqs and Grias are VERY underutilized
feel free to ask more questions but that's about it for me
>since Advance improved upon it.
Did it really though? It was kind of a sideways step that wasn't better but wasn't really worse either I guess, just different
FFTA is in my top 3, but it pissed off basically every tactics fan and it's easy to understand why.
TA has very little to do with Tactics, it's a lot more "Final Fantasy" than it is "Ivalice".
Tactics and XII are about fantasy politics (geopolitics in XII), and delve a lot into occultism, qabbalah, etc.
even today I'll read some book on occultism and understand some part of tactics that flew over my head back when I played it, both Tactics and XII are very dense with that stuff.
They basically have very little to do with each other.
No, FFTA is much better than FFT classic. More jobs, quests and smoother QoL. Ganker hated FFTA because muh isekai le childish.
Advance has a better job system but Tactics has better maps and story.
They're practically unrelated other than a few mechanics
It's job system isn't even better. Adding races only looks better to kids who don't understand what the system is supposed to be about. All it really does is prevent you from trying interesting combinations.
All the replies are moronic. FFT has better gameplay than advance.
- Real 3D maps you can rotate with lots of interesting terrains to exploit tactically like bridges and walls.
- Novel Faith system
- Classes with better identity and cool exploitable abilities like Quick and Teleport for Time Mages.
- Weapons defined by varied scaling formulas(daggers scale on spd, staves on mag, katanas are modified by brave, etc)
- Zodiac compatibility system to add variety with out adding per-turn randomness.
- No moronic race system interfering with build potential, just different stats for male and female while either can be any class except bard/dancer.
That's just off the top of my head. FFTA fixes a few balance problems but in fairly uninspired, soulless ways. But for the most part the gameplay is strictly inferior to the original
FFT by a fricking mile
>Better story
>Better characters
>Better interpersonal character relationships
>Better OST
>Better story
>Better looking spirtes/animations
>Insanely deep compatibility systems between zodiac sign and brave/faith levels
>Better main character
>Better story
>Actually difficult and not babbys first SRPG
>memorable characters
>better story
Did I mention the story is better in the original FFT? Feels like I forgot to mention that.
Anyone that says FFTA1 is better is a troll, anyone that says FFTA2 is better is probably well meaning but has brain damage. TA1 and TA2 are massive steps back from the original FFT and is why they were universally panned until the zoomers that grew up on them decided to try to change history, much like they've done with the star wars prequels.
FFT Modding community is good, too
I hate the way the game incentivizes you to farm JP points early on, combined with random encounters I found the game a slog and quit maybe 10 hours in.
>always like 3 full move turns away from enemies
>no downside at all to throwing stones at allies to get any amount of JP
These games should not have grinding as much as they do, but at the same time, autism-driven minmaxxers are the ones keeping their legacies alive.
If you are going to minmax autism, go full Disgaea. I'd rather them clean up job progression and obviously not have random encounters at all with a better progression curve as a result. I wouldn't be surprised if they take a page out of western CRPGs and make a game like OS2/BG3 or even Pathfinder KM/WOTR. Turn based, tons of un-voiced content in all but BG3, doesn't need huge production value to get the points across.
Sure, matching different skills is very interesting on paper. Until you realize you get 1~5JP per move and that high tier skill is 999JP and you would never get it normally even if you only did 2~3 classes per character.
However if you go the extra way of grinding all that JP for that one skill you want, you'd probably break the whole game other than optional content.
Are you talking about the original or TA?
Just have some patience. You get more JP per action when your job has leveled up, so those high their abilities aren't as far out of reach as they seem.
So you just build what you can as you play. Maybe take a random battle or two to top off your JP to get an ability if you're almost there and to experiment with builds, just don't let greed get the better of you and grind incessantly.
You won't have a party of maxed-out demigods for most of the game, you might not even unlock every class, which is good because you probably shouldn't be using Math Skill or Bards and Dancers on your first playthrough anyway.
By the time you reach the end, though, if you're still enjoying the game you'll have tons of time to just fight battles and grind and unlock as much shit as you want to experiment with. You can abuse de-leveler traps to max out your stats. And if you like the game enough to play it again you can go ahead and use the JP scroll glitch to unlock plenty of abilities early on without having to grind at all, if you want to see it would be like to have classes and abilities without the corresponding raw level power.
Grinding is always a crutch for shitters. It's never necessary through normal play, especially with FFT.
anon you could max out every job class in 10 hours. wtf were you doing?
>always like 3 full move turns away from enemies
So you didn't even make it to Golgorand in 10 fricking hours?
Maybe spend less time grinding, moron. Just play battles to win that's the fun part.
they're both good. if you liked one you'll like the other, but the original is much darker and adult themed
The only guy that answered correctly. FFTA is a good game but ultimately it's just a GBA game. FFT is more complex from the damage formulas to mechanics like weather etc.
Weather is barely a factor in FFT. Much like the Zodiac system it's mostly a neat gimmick but nothing substantial or worth thinking about.
FFTA is very streamlined. Even enemy ai is extremely basic and can't utilize status effects effectively. It's simple and fun but very meatless compared to FFT if you want to experiment.
>Much like the Zodiac system it's mostly a neat gimmick but nothing substantial or worth thinking about.
It's the sum total of everything that makes FFT so vastly superior to FFTA. And Zodiac system is not minor at all. The main flaw is that actually exploiting it winds up being really fricking tedious for an average player, but otherwise it's a very good idea and is in play every single battle. It's much better than the crude and condescending Judge system. Weather is just one more thing because hell why not?
>What is it being a GBA game supposed to have to do with it having simpler game mechanics?
Because handhelds are generally aimed at younger kids.
>All those mechanics were streamlined away because they barely mattered and were pointless fluff at best and a nuisance at worst.
This is why people should never listen to anyone claiming FFTA has better gameplay than the original. Just casually, half-assedly dismissing all the great depth as being "pointless fluff." Your taste is abysmal. It's fine if you enjoy your kiddie game just don't try and pretend like it's actually got better systems.
The genius of FFT is how fun it is to explore all the systems and how they interact. Midwits get hung up on the existence of broken builds but seem to miss how many different interesting combinations there are and how fun and satisfying it is to figure them out on your own.
What is it being a GBA game supposed to have to do with it having simpler game mechanics? Adding a few more factors to damage calculations is nothing, computationally, and I'm pretty sure the GBA actually has a pretty comparable processor to the PSX anyway - which is why the Playstation versions of FF1 and 2 were ported straight to it.
All those mechanics were streamlined away because they barely mattered and were pointless fluff at best and a nuisance at worst.
Not him, but handhelds are shit and every time a console game gets a handheld sequel, it's always watered down to account for less screen real estate, limited input options, and gameplay built around short simple busts.
>and I'm pretty sure the GBA actually has a pretty comparable processor to the PSX anyway
This is impressively dumb.
Once you get Cid the game becomes piss easy, not even exaggerating. Cid one shots everything.
TG Cid is fricking hilarious. I think at least once a month about how broken and stupid he is. The most inexplicable balancing decision I've ever seen.
I'm fine with Cid, but I also like grinding in FFT to get end game job combos and abilities. So it's not nearly as game breaking when it's already broken.
I also think it's a better alternative to the trope of a legendary warrior or badass villain who joins your party and ends up being weak as shit.
>The most inexplicable balancing decision I've ever seen.
Not hard to explain at all.
Player's invested enough to get that far into the story, why not give him an easy option to cruise through to the end if he just wants to see the story? Plus Orlando is just cool.
Try-hard, no-fun-allowed balance homosexuals ruined videogames. That's why there are no games like FFT anymore.
The card system in ffta was moronic. The maps were shit. The story was bad. Anyone who thinks ffta was better is an actual fricking idiot. It had different jobs so people thought it was better/more varied. Where in FFT you could actually craft a character and blend jobs and skills way better. Like have a Lancer with Time magic. Or take everyone through a chemist to learn certain passives like auto potion. Also mathematician and dancers were basically win. Time Magic was win. You could play the game for hours crafting characters with Ap/Jp and not even do the story.
Ffta was streamlined normy crap.
..but you wouldn't do any of those things unless you're deliberately trying not to beat the game because you can just demolish it with the special characters the plot gives you
Then demolish it with plot characters. Play how you want
FFTA plays a lot more like Tactics Ogre, albeit easier and vastly balanced in the player's favor.
No. What are you hoping for? Because what you'll get is what FF7 fans who were hyped for the teased (but fake) FF7 remake for PS3 got when the "remake" finally released as a real thing on PS4. The PSP port already checked off the "obnoxious retranslation/rewrite" box.
Advance is a simplified, E-rated babyfest. FFT proper is a story of warring factions, betrayal, and a corrupt demon-worshipping church. It's more complex, made for a home system rather than a portable.
WOTL is good and no amount of retroactive hate because you've been visiting the Tw*tter shitpost lolcowlizer threads too often will change that
>hurr durr
Whatever homosexualry you're on about has nothing to do with preferring the translation I played on the PSX over obnoxious shakespearian homosexualry.
advance is way better
the original had no fantasy races in a fantasy game, absolute fricking cringe
>the original had no fantasy races in a fantasy game, absolute fricking cringe
But characters could be any class (except the special character-specific ones). FFTA limited any given character's selections too much.
Also FFT had fantasy monsters to recruit and humans + monsters is in line with most Final Fantasy games. Only a few had furries in them
But not a lot of roster space for them
Wrong, it's fantasy races that are cringe.
Especially the ivalice ones.
Monsters, demons, dragons, angels-- that shit is all fine.
But playable furry races that are basically just human-like morphs are almost always fricking pointless and distracting.
the most midwit opinion I've ever heard
No they should just stop wasting money on shitty small projects only to cancel them soon after.
>It saved their ass in the past
Get real.
Yeah all these zoomers don't remember how poorly received 12 was when it first game out. It was regarded as a massive fumble compared to 10, which was a game even non-JRPG fans played.
What happened to 12 is the cult game effect, in which the people obsessed with it and who logically are the only ones who post or make content about it, flooded the Internet with positive things and a new and uninformed bystander thinks it was a well loved game.
Unless they do a little bit of a deeper research.
I'm one of those who plays XII nowadays and enjoy it, but I thought it was shit in 2006.
>how poorly received
we probably all remember that adam sessler gave it a good review on x-play even though he hated final fantasy
>Yeah all these zoomers don't remember how poorly received 12 was when it first game out.
Yeah man that poorly received game that is still one of the highest rated Final Fantasy titles of all time
Just because the mouthbreathing morons that thought X's shoujoshit ripoff of a story and terrible world design was good didn't like it doesn't mean it wasn't well received, nor does it mean it wasn't a good game.
The problem with XII was it was one of these games which felt clearly unfinished/rushed.
I know this is a very common thing now and nobody cares very much about it, just look a Cyberpunk.
But unlike Cyberpunk, it never got the full patch treatment, the job systems and tweaks in re-releases were just a paliative.
The best thing that happened to XII is that XIII followed it.
>The problem with XII was it was one of these games which felt clearly unfinished/rushed.
I mean it is undeniable that there's sections that feel disjointed, but it's got the longest playtime of like any Final Fantasy ever. It's far from rushed or unfinished, it was just finished by people without proper leadership or Matsuno around.
With 12 it feels like the gameplay and world came through largely untarnished and that is the source of acclaim.
But its pacing is awful (even worse than 16) and characters are paper thin, which is a shame because it is probably one of the best acted games to date.
I get why they did it, but changing out Balthier as the protagonist for the kid to appeal to the Japanese still hurts. Especially since you can see how much it was meant to be Balthier's story.
That wasn't what happened, they just retroactively changed Vaan's personality to be more boy-ish after Matsuno left. He's confirmed personally that the whole "Vaan was made up for the Japanese" shit isn't real.
Damn, well, it still felt like it was meant to have a more mature character in the middle of it instead of the clueless bumbling kid, even if Vaan grew on me more as things went on.
Matsuno, Minagawa and Yoshida all left Quest and immediately started work on FFT, and eventually they were reunited with the rest of the team in 2002. Ogre Battle 64 and the Knight of Lodis were made without them leading the team.
>Damn, well, it still felt like it was meant to have a more mature character in the middle of it instead of the clueless bumbling kid
Well I mean yeah, that's what I meant about them turning Vaan more boy-ish. I mean his characterization borders on egregious if you really think about it, he's an orphan who's experienced war, is 17, and he watched his brother die in the hospital after being victim to a falseflag operation. His whole happy-go-lucky schtick is, according to the game itself, just an act, a cope, but it is clear he was to some extent supposed to be more reserved. You can kinda see this in the justification he gives Ashe for being the way he is, where he claims he was coping with his powerlessness, a claim that doesn't really go anywhere beyond him just saying "well I guess I'll follow you anyway!". What I read from that specific scene and some of his characterization afterwards was that old!Vaan probably had something similar going on with the whole sky pirate thing, but it was a dream, and escape. When he realizes he can follow Ashe to exact his "revenge" on the Empire, he casts aside that dream (for the moment). So instead of it being "I'm just pretending to be moronic" it cuts to the core of the issue with "I'm just pretending not to be powerless, I don't want to pretend anymore".
Yeah I get you. Good analysis
I played a bit of it on my bros switch, what I did play was pretty enjoyable. Played up to the first major branch I think? It's on my list of games to go back and finish. It FELT derivative of earlier tactics stories, but not in a bad way.
I've always felt 12 was Ashe's story. She's the one who's kingdom got fricked. She's the one who has to make the choice between nuking the Empire or not. She's the one who has to struggling with feeling powerless and that feeling causing her to crave power. I was actually invested in her role in the story.
You mean Basch
And that's a false rumor that was clarified around the zodiac remaster. Vaan was the protagonist through and through.
I said Balthier and I mean it, I stand behind my man for his constant reminders that he fricks a Viera. That said, the talk of Basch and Ashe really points out that there were a lot of deep stories going on.
I bounced off of XII when I first played it, partly because of the gambit system. Would have called it really cool at the time, but not my favourite FF. Now its winning me over, but I would still recommend earlier FF games over it for someone wanting to get into the series.
Won't change the fact that (for me), Vaan is really not a better poster child than Balthier or even Basch, if they cared to give him a better hobo healing treatment than they did, dude still looked like he was an alcoholic lmfao.
But all of these are minor details and wouldn't make or break XII, ffs. If Balthier should've had more screen time and didn't, it's a deeper management problem than just Vaan being in the game, esp. since the kid barely does anything after a certain point.
Did you miss the post where anon explains that most positive discussion you see of the game comes from terminally online fanboys trying to overhype a turd? The game floundered bad compared to nearly every ff game before it, moron
Ah yes, all those glowing reviews on launch were from terminally online fanboys, lmfao. You are a fricking moron. Flounder on my nuts.
It shows how back then FF still had this clout that makes everyone give Zelda's 9s and 10s out of fear of outrage.
Things have changed, even 7R couldn't fully get away with it despite being THE Final Fantasy game in legacy.
Even if that was true (it's not), SE wasn't in dire straits when 12 released.
>Even if that was true (it's not)
But it is, the only Final Fantasy game with consistently higher scores from critics is IX.
>>b-b-b-but critics don't matter!
see the second part of
You're missing the point.
I don't like X or XII and think IX was the last good FF game, but at its core XII could have been a good game.
Your opinion is immediately voided when you try to talk about 10 having shit world design when it had a great fricking setting lmao
>Xbab doesn't know the difference between the setting and world design
lmao!
>world design when it had a great fricking setting lmao
Not that guy but setting and world design aren't the same thing.
Setting is the writing aspect, the hypothetical place the game is supposed to represent. World design (usually) refers to the implementation of the setting in the game and how the player interacts with it. You could have an amazing setting but a lackluster game world (consider Xenogears disc 2).
except that's also fine in x
>walk through place get to other place
>take boat get to place
>take airship get to place
>climb mountain get to place
the only thing anyone can even b***h about is sin teleporting your dumb asses to the desert that one time, the rest is all pretty consistent with the world map
>except that's also fine in x
By "fine" you mean "smelly shit that I don't mind because I'm used to it"?
No, it's just good and you're wrong anon, that's the thing 🙂
You haven't displayed any comprehension of world design if you think "take boat to place" is praise not criticism.
take boat to place in a world section made up of fricking islands is completely fine world design, are you a colossal clown?
>walk down hallway to get to place
>take boat (hallway) to get to place
>take airship (hallway) to get to place
>climb mountain (hallway) to get to place
there's your answer
XII was really divisive and I never met anyone who just thought it was okay; it was either amazing or total garbage when it came out. I never could understand the majority of criticisms I heard
>it's just star wars!
It vaguely resembles the Phantom Menace in the beginning, but the sci-fi airship stuff is actually toned down compared to other FF. And it's like they didn't play X where you start the game off doing futuristic soccer. And their darling VII was practically Blade Runner, and FF since the very first has had magi-tek and robots and lasers and guns. The only other thing I can think of is that XII starts off with a roundtable of "politicians" and King Raminas, so it vaguely resembles the political nature of Star Wars? But even there you'd have to be under the age of 8 to make that kind of connection, yet I was hearing teens and young adults saying that bullshit.
>it plays itself!
So turn off gambits.
>but then it's tedious and boring!
... and previous FF games weren't? Turn on active mode and increase the speed, don't use gambits, and you're in for a hell of a time that's 10x as engaging as anything before it. And if you want it slower and more turn-based-ish (as close to ATB as you can get), then keep it slow and on wait. The only major difference is you can run around the overworld while fighting which only has a few advantages that new players probably won't pick up on like kiting, positioning, AOE, etc which a lot of bosses ignore anyways.
>you spend too long in the desert!
And in VII you spend what feels like years in a shitty claustrophobic city with prerendered backgrounds and Lego characters. At least XII looks nice. And X is just southern Japan + Hawaii for a million hours. The initial beach stuff in Besaid is nice but it gets old fast. Plenty of good games have settings that overstay their theme.
I just want people to admit they don't like XII for any particular reason, that they just do, because that would be honest.
I hate big mmorpg zones and mmorpg mechanics like chest rolls and the story is weak
>and the story is weak
Only if you're a brainlet
Chests are inconsequential and icing on the cake. At no point are you required nor is it intended for a casual player to farm chests. The randomization actually means that if you retread through a zone (something quite common, especially in the Ogir and Nam Yensa for example), you can find something different. You're always rewarded. If you can't help yourself but be an OCD perfectionist that needs a perfect file, that's on you. I was like that for a long time so I understand where you're coming from, if that's the acse. That reminds me
>but the zodiac spear!
No one would know about that if they didn't spoil themselves.
>I hate big mmorpg zones
Well you got what you wanted in XIII, didn't you, anon? Enjoy your hallways.
>the story is weak
Elaborate and justify your opinion or you are admitting that you just don't like the game for a reason you are incapable of articulating. That is perfectly fine, it's not a loss, and you will lose no face on this anonymous shitpost board. I'm not judging.
That's very fair anon. I wouldn't recommend it to a new player either. FFI on the NES if they've played RPGs before, and FFX if they're young and kinda spoiled about graphics. The 3 party member system, the puzzles, the railroaded sphere grid giving the illusion of choice early on, and the rock paper scissors combat are really good for noobs.
You know, FF10 kinda is the perfect "modern" FF game to get people into the series. It's paced in a very forgiving way.
>SE in dire straits
how have they dropped the ball so hard these days holy shit
>Chests are inconsequential
If you don't see why that's a problem then you don't get JRPGs.
Chests are inconsequential in almost every JRPG ever made. The vast majority of equipment is intended to be bought in a shop, with chests providing 75% of the time: money, 15%: medicine, and 10%: equips. When you get a nice piece of armor or a new spear it feels good but being showered with them negates the entire purpose of gil/gald/gold and shops. There has to be a balance, and FFXII isn't that different from most JRPGs where most chests are just kinda
>oh nice some money
>oh look some herbs/potions
Interspersed with a weapon that you can probably already buy in the previous town, and maybe once or twice per dungeon, something from the next tier up. If you've played enough JRPGs, at least normal traditional ones, you'd recognize this pattern. So yes, chests are inconsequential in XII, as they are in most JRPGs, and that's fine if you're a JRPG fan which I presume the people I'm speaking to online are.
One of the big reasons Dragon Quest XI sucked for me, for example, was this balance was thrown off by the fun forge. You get showered with materials and can make +3 gear that completely invalidates the need to go shopping or find armor in chests. It means gold is useless. And since camps are free healing (and you get showered with Magic Water and instant heal statues), inns are also useless making gold DOUBLE useless. Now THAT game truly makes chests inconsequential.
I dunno man, almost every FF I remember I barely bought gear, at best I did early game.
Almost every worthwhile weapon in 5, 6, 7, 9 etc. I remember getting were from chests. Same for equipment and ribbons. Even in 4, you'd get an equivalent or better weapon shortly after being able to buy a new tier of stuff, with a few exceptions if you went out of your way after getting the airship.
Won't mention stealing items because that involves either guides or a lot of grinding/savescum.
bro you skipped 8 in your list
Yeah, 8 you literally buy every piece of weapon, don't you? At most you gotta grind for some materials you need to craft these items.
So technically in VIII you only get better gear by shopping, IIRC.
In 8 the weapons barely do anything other than give you access to higher limit breaks.
The damage difference is negligable, by the time you can craft the first new set of weapons you'll have STR-J on 2 or 3 of your GFs
8's "chests" were draw points which is mega gay.
I personally thought the chests were really important in XII because I was fricking broke as shit for the like first 40 hours. Every weapon or piece of gear was one less item I had to buy for a character, whether it was slightly worse or not wasn't even a problem and hallelujah if it wasn't.
>just ignore the primary gameplay gimmick bro
It's not even a good advice, in honesty. The game plays much worse if you simply ignore
Reminds me how Dragon Age: Origins becomes so much better and fluid after you invest points and unlocks better Tactics.
If you don't care or can't stomach Gambits, you should simply skip XII.
It's functionally identical to the ATB system if you ignore gambits, except for overworld movement. If you don't like Final Fantasy IV through IX, then that's fine, or if you've never played FF then that's okay too, but if you've played and enjoyed ATB before, what's stopping you from liking a more engaging version of it in XII? And again, nothing stops you from automating attack gambits and manually inputting spells, or vice versa.
You people are almost convincing me to get that Zodiac Age version and check my memory out.
Even if the real reason is just to look as Fran's ass at a higher res.
I love Fran
>fricking freaks out and kills some people with her bare claws because there's a giant crystal explosion about to happen
>Balthier: "haha I could have told you she doesn't like being tied up (i have sex with that woman)"
>liking a more engaging version of it in XII?
Because it isn't more engaging.
If it doesn't engage you then it doesn't and that's fine, no arguing against that. At least you're being honest about your feelings and I appreciate it, anon.
I liked the staggered introductions of characters in XII because it felt more natural, like a book, and less game-y. It fits the overall style of localization, even if the Japanese developers couldn't have forseen that.
Just pirate it. It's worth it for that sweet Fran. I like how tight Penelo looks though, and Ashe's tummy.
That's all good, we probably have different styles of playing so I would splurge in new towns, where maybe you'd save up more. In FFI I remember most treasures being Potions and Tents and whatever is already in a shop, and rarely (roughly 10% like I wrote above) something cool like elemental swords.
FFI is one of these games actually buying new gear every time you can afford is good. It even factors in the party composition as financing 2 Fighters in older gil drop rates is a bit grindy compared to a Fighter and a Monk.
But let's take IV, for example: you can buy some stuff in the Dwarve's castle like an Axe and some armor. Not only you get the same axe for free exploring the same map you get Firebrand and other better equipment by exploring the tower that comes right after.
In VII I remember getting a lot of much better gear in minigames/gold saucer and chests than just buying in shops. They are there so you can still upgrade if you missed any of these rewards.
But let's suppose a perfect run, the games do give you more than you need in items and gear just with chest rewards.
>pirate it
I would but I just cleaned my PC from top to bottom for work purposes and I'm not tech savvy enough to make sure I'm not installing extra shit with the pirated version.
Still emulate stuff on my laptop as it runs everything mostly fine.
The introduction to FF12 is objectively terrible from a writing standpoint, when compared to all of the previous FF games including Tactics. It's a jumble of awkward exposition and unfocused setups with no apparent point, delaying introduction of the main protagonist for no good reason.
Seriously. I like 13 more than 12.
And nothing has changed. FF12 got its own remaster on every system and to this date is still the least played and least discussed FF game. No one likes FF12. Despite glowing reviews the game is actually pretty shit. Lots of zoomers played FFX for the first time with the remaster and loved it but the same cannot be said about FF12. It was shit in 2006 and is still shit in 2024. Game journos love saying is the best FF game though, and love putting it on top of FF7 too for some ensured clicks and drama, one of the best games ever made. It makes no sense. Why can't they be honest with themselves?
>most popular FFX received the worst remaster
>no 100k vote petition or outrage
i'm so mad
>frogposter
People arguing this are missing the point.
It is a good game and it received good reviews, but the fandom was really split on it at the time and 13 felt like an extreme reaction by basically trying to do a futurepunk 10, but without the fun.
Extremely likely fft remake just got axed by the new ceo
I wish Viera were real bros...
not real Viera moron, take your MMO shit elsewhere.
not canon
It would be worthless without Matsuno just like everything they did with the property after he left, including the latter quarter of FFXII. And he's never coming back, I am quite content watching them shit all over VII and not!Ivalice and leaving the things I actually like the frick alone.
Final Fantasy just isnt popular anymore, dude. Pokemon and Persona are running this shit now.
The Tactics Ogre teams and Final Fantasy Tactics team are basically one and the same now. You can see the through-line in FF12 and a some of the additional content in FF14 (that the Japanese audience disliked for being too gritty). I just wish they'd go all in and make something based on those titles directly. I miss war, misery, monumental stone architecture and ethnic cleansing in my JRPGs.
PERSONALLY I am upset I'll never get to see the full story that was intended for Ogre Battle/Tactics Ogre.
I played the chaos route of tactics ogre reborn a few months ago. I have every intention of trying the law route. But it's gonna feel dirty
I'm on the chaos route right now after the branching point and I keep thinking about where the hell your moral center will be when you're an actual war criminal. Gonna try and not overthink my current playthrough so I can finish the game and go back to the law route too. Vyce going from normal faced to fricking insano is hilarious, though. Also I love Catua and losing Ravness was heart breaking.
I started to really like the sisters. I missed one of them so I kind of have to reset to get her. But there's no way in Hell they'll be recruitable after the massacre
Yeah I don't wanna spoil myself too much, and I forgot enough from the last time I played Let Us Cling Together on a PSP emulator that I can enjoy things, but I really feel like the "lawful" route is going to piss off a lot of people you could otherwise recruit.
It does, but there's a bunch of exclusive characters on the Law route too
>and I keep thinking about where the hell your moral center will be when you're an actual war criminal.
Denam basically just handwaves it as completely necessary. It is the "what is the life of one man against the lives of millions" thing where he reasons that without sacrificing the few, they'd never achieve unity and thus never achieve freedom, and generation after generation will live oppressed by the Bakrams and Galgastani.
Also, don't give up hope on seeing the end of Ogre Battle. We will almost certainly never get the complete episodic string, but Matsuno did give an interview where he basically said he wanted to do one last one before he died, sometime after (or before? it was close) Sakaguchi said he was scripting a new game. That said, this was years ago, so. It's a scrap of hope and I'll take what I can get.
>scrap of hope
I hope so, I remember playing the Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen as a kid on an emulator and then the Knight of Lodis after it, and the constant mentions of them being out of order parts of a series really made me want to see what else was going on in the other parts (even if it was all probably made up on the fly as a cool gimmick).
It was a gimmick stripped from Star Wars, Lucas retconned A New Hope as ep4 with the release of TESB. I've got no source on it but I believe Matsuno did have ideas for what would happen in a sequel to TO, just like there was an existent pitch for Vagrant Story 2 when he departed Square. There's also the fact he said he'd always wanted to try his hand at a proper sequel, so I imagine if it is ever made it will be a followup/curtain call on the series as a whole.
I do hope that if it does happen, they let him do the game design. Everyone remembers his stories but he's vocalized several times that the design aspect is his true passion, and I'd hate his last thing probably ever to be just a story.
I'd buy it on sale if I were you but it's literally hundreds of hours of gameplay with some pretty fantastic changes over the PSP version. Still as broken as ever, but if you played any edition that came before it you'd already be used to that. I will say it's probably the hardest of all the releases, if that is your thing.
Is that new TO version worth it? I find it overpriced and hate that mobile UI they added.
Or there're no (major) changes compared to the PSP version?
You know what I wanted? Some lite remasters of the older Ogre Battle games, especially OG64. I know people fawn over Unicorn Overlord, but the way fanservice and waifu-ism evolved in games isn't for me, it was the same when Fire Emblem went that route.
At least I got the Front Mission remakes.
It's strange. On the one hand it was rebalanced. Archers aren't the god unit anymore. Rune Knights are actually good. There's far less grinding. So that's great. But the new card system forcing dependence on RNG really fricking sucks. A lot of people hate the filter. I don't mind it but I've seen a lot of complaints about it.
I bought it since I'd played LUCT for free on an emulator and figured I'd see what had been changed while paying forward some of Matsuno's checks. It's pretty streamlined, bows seem less OP and that was confirmed by what people have said about it (no more cruising half the early fights by having Canopus fly on top of houses and snipe), but it feels less challenging in some ways because of it? The voice acting is interesting because it feels old fashioned and almost a little amateurish in both the japanese and the english, but its actually growing on me
>I miss war, misery, monumental stone architecture and ethnic cleansing in my JRPGs.
We can argue about whether it was good or not, but those were most definitely present in 16.
It doesn't need a remake. I would love a sequel though. Maybe it could be a few centuries after the original. Only if it was directed by Matsuno though. Maybe he could rope together whoever's left from the Tactics Ogre remake team.
just port it with an framerate patch and ezpz money
They returned, people hated it twice and it sent Matsuno to exile.
And Square tried time and again the "Tactics" formula and it never panned out, the Ivalice coat of paint won't be a major savior.
>Square Enix should return to Ivalice
FF16 was Ivalice as frick and you guys didn't give a shit about it. FRICK IVALICE.
I refuse to buy a PS5 to play One (1) Game, I'm not a Black person.
>Just make FF16
>AGAIN
nah frick that make a mainline game in Vanadiel and then remaster FFXI as a singleplayer game with optional co op.
vanadiel has all the best parts of ivalice with none of the stigma and even with XI being popular and still around many FF fans have never tried it or have very limited experience.
They need to go back to FF8 style of modern. This type of SOUL was also seen in FFX.
They literally just released FF7 Rebirth. It's the culmination of that style in concept and execution.
Doesn't matter if you hate the gameplay or story changes.
>It's the culmination of that style in concept and execution.
Is this bait?
are you moronic? the setting and atmosphere of 7 or rebirth is not even remotely close to 8
14 already did
tactics undersold compared to the mainland games
glad that the FFT threads are actually deep cover for myself and the three other Tactics Ogre fans to show our heads
I find it so funny FFT became the standard when in actuality if feels it was just a reskinned TO using FF clout to reach broader audiences.
I'm not informed on release dates or anything, but I'd wager someone quit/left Quest and pitched that gameplay system to Square.
Enter Vagrant Story.
Something I rarely read nowadays and read a lot during the 2000s is how FFXII felt more like a Vagrant Story 2 than a Final Fantasy.
And "what should be Final Fantasy" became the main unaswered question since then.
Unfortunately the cutscene direction in XII is leagues under what they accomplished with Vagrant Story.
Also I disagree, I really feel as if people only made that comparison because of the staff. FFXII is very, very Final Fantasy, Vagrant Story isn't very Final Fantasy at all.
just play triangle strategy or fell seal. both are better than any fft remake ever would be
>Fell seal
I tried anon, but that game is ugly as sin, i just can't.
How is Triangle Tactics? Always read very polarizing things about that one.
If Square had the wisdom to not ask high prices for lesser titles, I'd buy them just to check them out.
I care more about crafting a cool custom team filling roleplay roles than just minmaxxing stuff.
if anyone is still around to give some Tactics Ogre advice, should I change people's classes around to give warriors skills like meditation?
If you're talking about Reborn or LUCT then class abilities cannot be mixed and matched.
FFT babies never played a single other sprg and it shows.
Just like how ff7 babies never played a single other jrpg.
Weird how it always seem to be ps1 babies.
>ps1 babies
Add all that Chrono Cross circlejerk to this list.
The cult around Trigger is curious and understadable, but the one around Cross I was never able to understand.
I wasn't aware there was a Cross circlejerk.
>FFT babies never played a single other sprg and it shows.
People who say this never have good arguments, ever. You don't even understand SRPGs enough to discuss important gameplay elements.
>Weird how it always seem to be ps1 babies.
I thought you might have been the kind of shitposter who brings up Xcom and JA (the only 2 good western tactics games) but now I realize that you're just a shitposting tendie who probably things trash like FE is good.
What for? So they can add time Jannie's in a vague attemp to save tetra? No thanks
Lucavi are trying to merge every Ivalice iteration now.
If you like FFT and can get past this art style, be sure to give Fell Seal a try. It's fricking excellent. It's on sale right now on Steam for dirt cheap.
It may look like trash but the gameplay is on point. Give it a chance.
I look at all of these new games and realize how almost every one of them manage to look worse than "professional" stuff from 30 years ago in regards to art style and direction.
Makes me appreciate those overworked japanese devs.
I gave it a chance. Even after being turned off by the pointlessly female protagonist. It's fun but nowhere near FFT.
The main issue is the bland, modern-style balancing with lots abilities that do a little damage and some little useful effect but nothing too exciting or useful because that might lead to fun.
Also as compared to FFT, it also lacks the full 3D environments. Similar isometric style to FFTA and TO.
There is no getting past the art style anon. It's so fricking jarring that it makes playing the game visually painful.
Codename Bakery is fun and also has cute chibi models
i gave up playing this, the balance is whack i'm going to assume it was balanced like fft where if you know what jobs to get and requirements in advance you're fine. but the thing with fft was you didn't need to know that stuff in advance first playthrough to still do fine.
the mobs in this game all take like 3 or 4 attacks to kill one, and they outnumber you and kill you in the same or less hits, you can't just tank anything, you have to walk around like a moron to generate mp to do things
i played for a while, eventually had to turn the difficulty down because level scaling was insane, and even then i couldn't beat the optional go after the thieves to put an end to their shit or whatever quest after multiple tries with the party i had - which is sufficiently levelled in a lot of jobs - so i just ditched it
looks like a gay phone game. takes me out of it immediately
i like both FFTA2 and dark souls 2. Is there any correlation here?
>Square Enix should return to Ivalice.
LMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAOOOOOOOO
Ivalice just needs to burn.
Sick of that setting.
Talk about rent free. When was the last time Ivalice got a FF entry?
FFTA ruined it by adding all the weird demi-human races.
>Remake
REMAKES ARE AUTOMATIC GOYSLOP. FRICK OFF WITH THIS SHIT. WE NEED NEW GAMES.
Tactics Ogre Reborn is the second remake the game got and people still can't agree on the definitive way to experience it. That means they're all good in their own ways. I'm sure the FFT remake woulf make changes to mechanics that would have mixed results.
>That means they're all good in their own ways
The opposite, actually. They all have crippling flaws.
That also means they all have redeeming qualities
Not unique ones. The good parts of the game stay good across all versions, but they frick it up differently each time.
Why is this supposed to be good? Why do you want old shit slopped back to you instead of cool new shit?
I don't think Reborn even qualifies as a remake. It's just the PSP game with some upscale filter and voice acting. Not to mention aside from crafting most of the changes it made are complete dogshit. Frick those RNG cards especially.
and revamped skill and item system.
I honestly forgot it had voice acting. Turned it off at the start and never looked back.
SE doesn't have Matsuno with them anymore so there's no chance it would be good.
Since SE is tanking now and is probably never going to make the FFT remaster, I need to decide between the original FFT and WotL. What are the differences between them? Is WotL a straight upgrade outside of spell slowdown and script changes? I'd be playing in moon either way so the script doesn't make a difference.
Psx has vastly better sound effects as well. You can also mod whatever script you prefer for it too.
Both versions are fine to start with honeastly.
Does the game encourage multiple playthroughs? I might do one of each.
Unless you're the type of guy that does challenge runs to experiment with the game mechanics (because the game doesn't force you to master even half of them) not really.
Just some neat sidequests you can easily miss.
The worst aspect of the PSP version is the slowdown. I only ever played that one on OG hardware but I assume there's a patch for it somewhere if you are emulating.
The PSP script is pretty obnoxiously terrible with excessively verbose, try-hard ye olde Butchered Englishe that muddies the clarity of the original. But it's not totally intolerable and the PSP version doesn't have the random grammar mistakes and other goofs but those are pretty minor in most cases (Anyone who can't autocorrect the "Dycedarg's Elder Brother" line in their head is too stupid to be playing this game in the first place).
Best thing about the PSP version is the expanded roster.
>but I assume there's a patch for it somewhere if you are emulating.
I just looked and there's a version of the patch someone made that works on all versions of the game, including the Japanese one. I'll be using that.
>The PSP script is pretty obnoxiously terrible with excessively verbose
Again, I play in moon so that doesn't affect me.
>Again, I play in moon so that doesn't affect me.
Missed that part, you will be fine then.
>The PSP script is pretty obnoxiously terrible with excessively verbose, try-hard ye olde Butchered Englishe that muddies the clarity of the original
lmao@being filtered by the god tier dialog in WOTL
never fails to crack me up
As a third worlder, I never found the WotL script that verbose.
I’m pretty sure japanese script uses colloquial speech and not some imperial 11th century japanese script, but in the West this shakesperean olde Anglaise style with british accents is very common.
>in the West this shakesperean olde Anglaise style with british accents is very common.
And almost always terrible.
The DS version of FF4 is another victim. Not as bad as WOTL but it's far more tedious and boring than the original.
It's fine in FFXII and Vagrant Story
I have mixed feelings on this. The original fft translation is crappy, the new translation tries too hard.
Maybe there’s some fan translation patch which strikes a balance, that’s not unusual.
Still, the cutscenes and dub in WotL were better than I expected, although the sound mix is bizarre, sometimes background instrumental music muffles the dialogue, or that’s poor emulation?
>And almost always terrible.
Even when the Shakespearean/KJV English is done right (which is so rare I can't think of a single example) it's still fricking stupid.
I'd love to see a game with dialogue in actual Old English
>Hwæt. We Gardena in geardagum, þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon, hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
>Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum, monegum mægþum, meodosetla ofteah, egsode eorlas.
>Syððan ærest wearð feasceaft funden, he þæs frofre gebad, weox under wolcnum, weorðmyndum þah, oðþæt him æghwylc þara ymbsittendra ofer hronrade hyran scolde, gomban gyldan. þæt wæs god cyning.
The best we're getting is random words from units in an RTS set in that time
No, there's no filtering. I understand all of it. It's just bad. No one with any taste in language or storytelling prefers the terrible WOTL translation.
Shakespeare wrote Polonius to make fun of try-hards like you.
Polonius dies an ignominious death for being moronic.
‘Tis your birth and faith that wrong you, not I.
Dunno man, sounds cool to me. Although the original was fine as well. Don’t blame me, blame fate.
>Dunno man, sounds cool to me.
A few lines here and there sound cool, but when every single fricking line of dialog in the entire game is written trying to sound cool (aka be stylish), the result is anything but. It makes the actual intended meaning of the characters less clear and vivid.
That's why that segment from Hamlet is so apt. Even in verse intended for a stage and 400 years later, you can see a self-important gasbag redditor droning on trying hard to be clever (which actually is clever and funny because it's Shakespeare doing it, not a random localizer wagie) and contradicting himself in the process, while the queen interrupts with 6 syllables to say "get to the point, homosexual."
Sorry, but you're wrong.
Original FFT script is fantastic too, but WOTL is just as good at the worst and magnitudes better at its height.
>writing the et in et cetera as &
made me laugh harder than anything else
You guys seem to not remember that the entire story is being told 500 years after the events of it happened, and all of the dialog is being made up by some dude that is so far removed from that era that he's literally just making shit up.
Arazlam doesn't have that flowery nonsense way of talking when he's addressing the player at the start of the game. It's all just an invention he came up with based on the loose story that was in the Durai papers that he rediscovered.
>You guys seem to not remember that the entire story is being told 500 years after the events of it happened, and all of the dialog is being made up by some dude that is so far removed from that era that he's literally just making shit up.
Having a cheap, lazy excuse for bad dialog does not make the dialog any less bad.
Yeah, making up in-lore excuses for poor translation is just trying too hard.
It’s not like the original version/author even had this intention at all.
I know we all love the original FFT but we don’t need to go that far in making up excuses for its shortcomings. I just put up with them and enjoy the good things.
>It’s not like the original version/author even had this intention at all.
Matsuno literally said he prefers the WOTL script to any other version of the games script recently when the whole UO translation debacle was at it's peak, but go ahead and keep thinking he hates it.
>Matsuno literally said
Jesus frick nobody should ever give a shit when developers say this kind of shit. It's pure marketing homosexualry specifically aimed at morons like you.
Developer interviews can be interesting but you always have to take them with a grain of salt and realize that everything you see is biased by desire to be polite, professional and support whatever business you're depending on.
Anon he hasn't been employed by Square for over 20 years.
I'm sure he has an excellent grasp of English and is perfectly happy with the script fully changing up the meaning and tone of scenes with overly flowery pretentious language
Even if some devs DO have a hard on for Le Shakespearean Meme English, it's just because it sounds cool to them and they don't understand whether it's actually good or bad
Like how Japanese voices almost always sound good to us, it's hard for us to tell the quality but we can immediately detect a cringy dub voice
>ps1
>Knight: Great, here comes a crowd! Gafgarion! Kill them!! And
do it now!!
>Gafgarion: Don't know what's going on, but it's in the contract!
>Agrias: Gafgarion, are you betraying us?
>Gafgarion: Betraying you? C'mon, this is business. Our job is to kidnap the Princess 'unharmed'. The job is to kill you all and keep things quiet!
>Agrias: What are you getting at? This kidnapping's a sham?
>Gafgarion: The Princess is in the way! The Princess should be next in line. If she's alive there'll be nothing but trouble!
>wotl
>Knight: Hmm. It seems we are no longer alone. Gaffgarion! Kill them all!
>Gaffgarion: A change of plans...but a contract is a contract, after all!
>Agrias: You would now betray us!?
>Gaffgarion: Betray you? You have a viper's tongue, milady. I betray no one. I am in the Order's employ, and they are of it. My task was to see the princess safely abducted. And theirs, to see the one responsible silenced.
>Agrias: You mean to say the kidnapping was a ruse?
>Gaffgarion: The princess is an obstacle to the throne. So long as she lives, the threat remains that someone could assert her claim above Prince Orinus's. Two heirs are one too many!
In the PS1 Gaffgarion claims that he doesn't know what's going on right before explaining what's going on. Literally in the next sentence he conflicts with the first sentence.
ALSO Gaffgarion claims in the PS1 that he was always intended to kill Agrias. This is immediately nonsense. Why did he fight with Agrias in the tutorial fight if the plan was always to kill her? The actual plan was to kill the alleged "kidnapper" as a convenient scapegoat to saw Orinus's rival removed. Only Delita inserted himself into the scheme and stole her away for his own plans. Which he then complains about to Dycedarg later in chapter 2
ALSO Gaffgarion saying that Ovelia should have the throne is in direct opposition to the plot. No one is sure who should have the throne. That's the whole point of the war.
yeah, the conversation between dycedarg and gaffgarion at igros castle is way better in the wotl version as well
: Don't know what's going on, but it's in the contract!
: A change of plans...but a contract is a contract, after all!
WOTL is better on this line, however:
>Literally in the next sentence he conflicts with the first sentence.
Yeah because he's obviously full of shit. This is not a real problem.
: Betraying you? C'mon, this is business. Our job is to kidnap the Princess 'unharmed'. The job is to kill you all and keep things quiet!
: Betray you? You have a viper's tongue, milady. I betray no one. I am in the Order's employ, and they are of it. My task was to see the princess safely abducted. And theirs, to see the one responsible silenced.
In this line, PS1 wins by a landslide, WOTL going full Polonius with pointless embellishments and ass-backwards phrasing meant to sound poetic, right in the middle of tense pre-combat banter.
>ALSO Gaffgarion claims in the PS1 that he was always intended to kill Agrias.
No, that's not what he claimed. That's just you reading into the line shit that isn't there. The line is more ambiguous in the PS1 version, it's not clear that Gafgarion is spilling the beans on the whole plan or is just telling you happening right now ("kill you all and keep things quiet"). But it's not a contradiction.
>ALSO Gaffgarion saying that Ovelia should have the throne is in direct opposition to the plot.
That line is definitely bad in the PS1 version, but again you're reading it wrong. This one there IS in fact an apparent contradiction.
"The princess is in the way" - makes sense
"If she's alive there'll be nothing but trouble" - makes sense, again, assuming he's biased to favor Larg's faction in the moment.
"The princess should be next in line" - Odd one out. So if you're reading with proper Engrish filter, you just drop the line, assuming he was trying to elaborate.
So again, in conclusion, both translations aren't very good.
WOTL has fewer outright mistakes, but far more pointless, obnoxious style homosexualry. (I'm not autistic enough to go cherry-picking for the times where WOTLs penchant for flowery language legitimately obscures semantics, but I assure you they are there)
PS1 requires reading with an Engrish filter to auto-correct or extrapolate from occasional blatant mistakes.
So pick your poison. Personally I pick PS1 because I'm straight..
>WOTL dialogue
ADD TRIGGER WARNINGS TO THIS SHIT
bros i need a non schizo answer
FFT PS1 or FFT PSP for first playthrough?
was planning on going with PS1 since most remasters have been shit by this company
It doesnt matter. War of the lions has better cutscenes but the original is fine without them.
Either way is fine. Decide based on the script. Psx is simpler but has some "this guy are sick" tier errors.
The extra content of PSP is nothing special but also not bad and the cutscenes are cool.
Overall performance is better for the PS1 version from framerate during spell effects to sound effects.
i'll probably go with PS1 then, usually japanese texts are more simple and the fancy stuff is localizer flair
unless you're going to go to the effort to patch the psp version to fix slowdown, psx.
the extra content is nice though
squenix can't make anything new that is above mid, doesn't matter what setting they use.
remake, sure, pc release already. but new game? zero chance, it would be complete dogshit.
>Prepare your anus, Ramza.
It would be shit without Matsuno
It baffles me how there was never a real competitor to Ogre Battle/Tactics games.
We had a lot of pretenders, nut none at the level of the originals. It seems this Unicorn Overlord one is a good exception.
>It seems this Unicorn Overlord one is a good exception.
The story is pretty generic but the mechanics are very satisfying. Shame the devs didn't bother to put much effort into enemy teams, they tend to be too undergeared and too simple with their tactics unless they're boss teams.
If every enemy unit was well equipped and complex then battles would quickly become tiresome as you either constantly juggle around units and tactics to overcome them, or lean even harder into making two or three ultra busted units and having them unga bunga their way through the whole game.
I understand, perhaps making literally every enemy unit hand designed would lead to what you said but maybe there's a better halfway point, leave the random fodder that bases spawn every half minute or so as is, under equipped and dumb since they're just meant to wear you down but make it so every single enemy unit permanently stationed at some camp or fort is better dressed and with proper tactics set instead of just using their defaults.
No one was willing to put in the required effort. Matsuno himself was a fan of UO at the very least.
I just hope we get more high quality srpgs
>Matsuno himself was a fan of UO at the very least.
It's funny how transparent UO is about being a love letter to Ogre Battle to the point one of its tracks is ripped right out of it.
Yeah I wish it wasn't on a bunch of worthless consoles and Vanillaware would bother to let people play the games they keep almost going broke on
The studio that did the music (Basiscape) is owned and run by Hitoshi Sakimoto, so it makes sense.
It takes a ton of work to make a good one and the audience is niche. It's not surprising. At least we can still play the old games.
Like the other dude said, it would be stupid hard to replicate Ogre Battle/TO. People can say what they want about Matsuno, but basically all of the games he made are stupid hard to replicate and even if someone could get the mechanical basis down, they'd still have to contend with the aesthetics, story, music, and every other component. Primarily, the sheer amount of content the games he made offer, which even to date very few games have pulled off even outside the genre. His games are all 100 hour minimum timesinks and then, in the case of TO for example, you still have all the other routes after that.
It’s just so satisfying having that Knight or Wizard flunkie get stronger, gear them up etc.
I don’t even care that much for minmaxxing but even in simpler games like Knight of Lodis I’d just go after random battles just to check out builds and characters, not to overlevel the main content.
Western and Crpgs tend to have a lot of mechanical depths but they also have the “right” way of building, whereas in these tactics you almost never feel you’re playing wrong unless you’re moving like a lunatic and getting ganked. Even beast/dragon units which are poorly regarded in many titles can be made to work well in story modes given a good setup and party.
You could also give up on waiting and come over to the dark side
I was always curious about Disgaea but never went far back in the PS2 ones.
If I would grab just one of them nowadays, which one should I get?
personally i would play 2, but really you should go bait /nisg/ in /vg/
idk anon the dark side isn't that great, 6 was ass, 7 was mid - lacking in content and the charm of most animations is still lacking due to no spritework
there's really no reason to play them over 5 especially when it comes to replaying and having stuff to do
be wary of what you ask for. Yoshit Piss wants to make one. It will be FFT lite with watered down press O to win DMC combat and a shitty story.
gas all
>le heckin remake
cucks
Gas all mentally ill shitposting third worlders who get mad at remasters and remakes they don't play.
>you should consume shit because its new!
real mental illness
>you should judge things based on their individual quality rather than being a mentally ill subhuman third worlder who writes off all remasters and remakes on some misguided dementia they think is a principle
Yes.
all remakes and remasters are shit money grabs, correct.
You're a mentally ill third worlder, correct.
nope, wrong on all accounts.
feel free to consume shit and ask for seconds.
Did the Tactics Ogre remaster sell well? If it didn't, there is your answer if you will get a FFT anything in the future.
We never got specific numbers but they did say they were happy with it. I don't see what else the team would be doing other than a FFT remake unless they are going to finally let them make a new Ivalice title like they talked about wanting to.
They are developing a Tactics remaster right now
>FFT remake announced
>story is heavily wokealized and toned down
>difficulty is even more unbalanced
>new artstyle is full 3D slop
>split into 3+ parts and sold at $60 apiece
Frick that. Just play the WotL version with mods.
you are crying over a made up scenario you invented
frick that boss fight in particular. even the final boss wasn't that difficult on the first playthrough.
>It saved their ass in the past.
????????
Nobody gives a shit about Tactics or Ivalice
Explain to me why, say, XII or FFT are thematically more complex stories than X?
Your soap opera story about a sad miko girl and her tragic romance aimed at women isn't deep or complex, no matter how much you try to paint it as a subjective matter of taste and preferences.
>Your soap opera story
But it's not soap opera story and it's not about a sad miko girl and her tragic romance.
>because they are closer to literary fiction than X is closer to literary fiction
This doesn't necessarily mean that more interesting thematic concepts are explored in a better way in such "closer to literary fiction" games.
>it's not about a sad miko girl and her tragic romance.
That is literally the entire crux of the story and why it's popular.
>That is literally the entire crux of the story and why it's popular.
If you think that it's the entire crux, then you've clearly misunderstood the story. And I'm not asking why it's popular.
>It explores nothing interesting and makes no larger commentary on the world around us, or on us as people.
Well therefore FFX is not genre fiction, because although it explores quite universal mythological archetypes and motifs, it also gives them a clear interpretation and comments on them, and thus, due to the nature of these motifs as an allegories of aspects of the surrounding world, it also comments on world around us. So there's definitely something "to explore in the first place".
>With FFT you get to see ideologies clash with one another more often as well as the rationale of the "bad guys."
That's hard to disagree with. A clash of beliefs is a great way to present the dynamics of conflict that reveal the theme of the game, and in the case of Tactics they executed conflict dynamics, thus - thematisation, better. However, conflict dynamics through a clash of beliefs is more a way or technical tool of conveying a theme, rather than theme itself. But overall, your post is very interesting. Thank you.
>FFX is mostly a theme park. You don't get to rub up against too many themes in the same way.
Topics may not only be social. They may be psychological, philosophical, and existential.
>There's definitely precedent for the idea of "government is weaponizing ignorance to maintain a status quo."
This is clearly secondry aspect of the game's thematisation, not the most important one, in my opinion.
I never said FFX was genre fiction and I have no interest in arguing about it, I simply said FFT/XII are much further away from being genre fiction than X is (they both are, for the record).
Great, then do you have something else to say, why is the thematic core in X simplier or even, maybe, worse than in XII or Tactics, other than pointing out on the genre characteristics of these stories? Belonging to a genre is generally a secondary thing for the conceptual structure of the thematic core.
I already answered your question, FFT/XII are closer to literary fiction than X is, which means they have more complexity. We aren't talking about genres, sub-genres don't exist in the discussion of genre fiction and literary fiction. I don't think you know what you are talking about.
What is this complexity of the themes of XII and Tactics compared to X? Can you say concretely? This is the first time I've ever seen a person saying about themes ‘This is more literary, therefore it's more complex’. Very cute, but very vague, sorry. Is there any way to add specifics?
>If you think that it's the entire crux, then you've clearly misunderstood the story.
You're clearly an idiot pretending to be reasonable and knowledgeable. That's literally the focus of the story. It's what the writers focused on the most. It's the driving conflict and emotional buildup, and it's what every followup piece of media centered on. Your stupidity and inability to discern that doesn't change anything.
>Well therefore FFX is not genre fiction, because although it explores quite universal mythological archetypes and motifs, it also gives them a clear interpretation and comments on them, and thus, due to the nature of these motifs as an allegories of aspects of the surrounding world, it also comments on world around us.
Stop trying to sound smart and analytical. Your writing is a fricking trainwreck. Not only are you saying nothing, but you're doing it with broken grammar.
But you don't say anything either, except "there's nothing here".
>That's literally the focus of the story. It's what the writers focused on the most. It's the driving conflict and emotional buildup, and it's what every followup piece of media centered on.
But I'm not asking about the focus of the story, but about thematization. Problems with reading comprehension or what?
>But I'm not asking about the focus of the story, but about thematization.
How do you think themes are built up within a story? It's a conscious decision by the writers to focus on certain ideas. When they focus on those ideas, those become the main themes of the story.
>Problems with reading comprehension or what?
You write like an ESLgay, so it's funny that you'd say that.
>It's a conscious decision by the writers to focus on certain ideas
Their romance is not the "idea" of the story. The story is clearly not about that.
>Their romance is not the "idea" of the story.
It very clearly is. It's the driving force behind the plot and major themes. It's also what's focused on during all followup stories. Anything else is secondary or tertiary, especially the weak ass religion subplot.
>It's the driving force behind the plot and major themes
Driving forces behind the major themes are not themes themselves.
Tidus and Yuna's romance is not a theme, it is at most a way of expressing a theme that has nothing at all to do with love. The story of the struggle against Sin is literally an expression of the folkloric and mythological archetype of the struggle against Chaos (Chaoskampf). Yu Yevon's story is based on the motif of a ruler who, because of his unwillingness to let go of Zanarkand, projects his psychological trauma onto the cosmic order of the world. The motivation of Yevon's religion is to levelling the endlessly repeating cycle of struggle with Chaos by creating a realm of eternity. The game communicates the importance of finiteness and finality, the unnaturalness of eternity and endless repetition to human nature. This is expressed both in the story of Tidus, who lets go of his father at the end, and in the story of Yuna, who lets go of her life and realises its value in her final days of love with Tidus. The antagonists of the game fight for a certain form of timelessness, the protagonists through this conflict realise the value of finiteness and finality.
>Driving forces behind the major themes are not themes themselves.
>Tidus and Yuna's romance is not a theme
Yuna's tragic romance is absolutely a theme. It's also objectively and factually the main theme of FFX and all related stories. I'm not going to reply to you anymore because it's clear that your grasp of literary concepts like themes and motifs are as bad as your English. You keep trying to create dichotomies and compartmentalizations that don't exist so that you can pretend the theme of the story is some weird thing that exists in a vacuum and can't be said to be worse than the themes of Ivalice games. You're impressively stupid.
>No u: the post
As always, about anything but the subject of the conversation.
I'm following all your back and forths and the first two sentences of his post are about the main themes. You have a weird combination of stupidity and a victim complex.
>The story of the struggle against Sin is literally an expression of the folkloric and mythological archetype of the struggle against Chaos (Chaoskampf). Yu Yevon's story is based on the motif of a ruler who, because of his unwillingness to let go of Zanarkand, projects his psychological trauma onto the cosmic order of the world. The motivation of Yevon's religion is to levelling the endlessly repeating cycle of struggle with Chaos by creating a realm of eternity.
This post
was right on the fricking money.
Do you have a better counterargument? You guys are so defensive, and I don't understand why. Everything I've heard so far:
>XII is a real literary fiction, therefore - it's more complex thematically (of course, there is no explanation of how this is expressed in concrete examples in stories of XII, T, X).
>1 concrete and sincere explanation from an anon
>a few ‘no u's’ with 0 counterarguments.
> the first two sentences of his post are about the main themes
2 statements without explanation. That's not a counter argument to my post about themes.
Once again, Yuna's tragic romance is not the theme, an explanation of why is given. If you think only about the tragedy of her love throughout the game, then I feel sorry for you. On the other hand, the thematic pattern of almost every main character eventually letting go of some traumatic event is clearly presented in the game. The difference between views of the antagonists and the protagonists regarding the value of time (timelessness vs finiteness) is presented in the game. But the tragedy of Yuna's love, however, is not presented in the arc of Yu Yevon - the main antagonist of the game.
Cute insults are not counter arguments. A big revelation for you I guess.
>>XII is a real literary fiction, therefore - it's more complex thematically (of course, there is no explanation of how this is expressed in concrete examples in stories of XII, T, X).
I'll get back to you with that 7 page APA paper
>2 statements without explanation.
They don't need explanation. They're a plain statement of what the themes are. Your word salad doesn't change the themes of the story.
>Cute insults are not counter arguments. A big revelation for you I guess.
You need to stop trying to clever. You don't have the wit for it.
I'll stop trying to be clever when you reply to my post with something more interesting than ‘it's obvious’, ‘it's factually true’, ‘it needs no explanation’, or ‘no u’ .
You'll stop getting called an idiot by multiple people when you stop being one. The story is a love story. It was obvious to anyone who played it. If that wasn't enough, the sequel game and sequel novels are all centered around the story. That's the focus of the plot and the primary theme to FFX's story and world. You rambling on like a teenager trying to explain why Eva is deep won't make shitty Japanese religionwank a complex theme or the focus of FFX. If you really, really want to pretend you're backing anything up with explanations, then feel free to post actual quotes or interviews from the devs and writers. If you can't, then understand that no one cares about your broken English verbal diarrhea.
The character arcs of Tidus, Yuna, Yu Yevon, Seimour, Wakka, Lulu, and the story of Yevon cult have the same thematic pattern. The antagonists cannot escape the traumatic cycle and try to cope with their traumas by creating a form of timelessness: the eternally returning Sin or the realm of death. On the other hand, the main characters, almost all of them, successfully break the cycle of difficult experiences they could not let go of: Tidus lets go of his father, Yuna lets go of her life and realises the value of finiteness in love, Wakka lets go of his dogmatism and attachment to his brother, Lulu also lets go of her attachment to Wakka's brother, etc. You see, thematic pattern. It's easy.
>Thematic analysis should always be done in accordance with the author's intention, which he has specifically informed everyone about.
A big discovery for you: texts can be analyzed without having to learn from interviews and letters what the author wanted to say.
Ah, you're one of those death of the author morons. That explains a lot.
No, I'm not. A second big discovery for you: it does not follow from the fact that the author is not dead that there can only be one interpretation, because language has its own partial autonomy even in pre-Barthes theories. The author may be "alive", but still he's not completely in control of the language, thus there is a space (not infinite) of possible interpretations, the truth of which can be verified by 2 simple criteria: 1) coherence of interpretation with the text, 2) its internal consistency. That's it.
Using more words to say less doesn't mean you've substantiated an argument. Please understand that.
You sound like the kind of person who thinks Takahashi games are deep and thought provoking looks at human psychology and religion.
>This doesn't necessarily mean that more interesting thematic concepts are explored in a better way in such "closer to literary fiction" games.
That's exactly what it means. Genre fiction, by definition, is functionally depthless. It explores nothing interesting and makes no larger commentary on the world around us, or on us as people. There's nothing to "explore in a better way" because there's nothing to explore in the first place. The closer you get to literary fiction, the more depth you gain. Sure, you can have poorly written literary fiction, but that isn't what we are talking about is it?
because they are closer to literary fiction than X is closer to literary fiction (not close at all)
>closer
*close
stroke moment
With FFT you get to see ideologies clash with one another more often as well as the rationale of the "bad guys." Most people don't just hate Argath/ Algus because he shot Delita's sister, they hate him because of his views of how people can be born less than through no fault of their own. But he's not a cartoon character, he applies his rules to himself. He recognizes that he less than House Beoulve and kowtows to their law. He can't understand why Ramza doesn't use the authority given to him by birth. He even says that as a Beoulve he has both the power and the authority to shape the world as he sees fit but that means Ramza is still bound to the world order that gave him that authority in the first place. Which is an uncomfortable truth both Ramza and Delita find themselves fighting against throughout the game. It's an uncomfortable reality IRL that no one likes besides those who profit from it and yet it keeps happening in every society built.
FFX is mostly a theme park. You don't get to rub up against too many themes in the same way. There's definitely precedent for the idea of "government is weaponizing ignorance to maintain a status quo." But at the same time the reasons for that status quo is kind of silly. They're not doing it because of people being people, they're doing it because no one believes defeating Sin is even possible and so truly attempting to fight it would just lead to the deaths of everyone. Ironically the church with the least faith has made it law for everyone to be faithful for them lol. I don't think FFX being more "anime" hurts it but I'm sure a lot of people dislike Tidus's overly energetic personality too.
leaving the shakespearean style of writing aside, the wotl has way better dialogue than the ps1 version because it makes sense and is consistent with the plot and the characters
You can go to Ivalice now in Final Fantasy XIV, you interact with the narrator of FFT to learn what really happened.
Sorry but I don't play troony games.
If they make a game about Doned plotting revenge on Marche, I'll buy it
Ah yes, the one dude.
>The dev's opinion is worthless because... I don't agree with him.
>I don't agree with him.
Irrelevant
>Anon he hasn't been employed by Square for over 20 years.
Irrelevant.
I can tell from both your defensive reactions that you are gossip gays who hang on the words of developers while failing to understand the simple reality of what developer interviews are all about. Even if the interview is not specifically in the context of marketing for a game, he's probably doing someone a favor and at the very least is going to be polite, professional and agreeable to the interviewer. It's not unheard of for devs to drop unfiltered truth bombs during an interview but odds are basically zero that any quotes you see posted by weebs on Ganker are anything worth caring about.
And this goes for all developers and dev interviews, not just Matsuno. I see it all the fricking time. One of the most cringe things that anons do is post quotes from developer interviews agreeing with a simple position (even when I agree).
>and at the very least is going to be polite, professional and agreeable to the interviewer.
Not part of your argument at all, but it's crazy that people don't understand this concept, especially when it comes to Japanese people.
Dude he literally said it on Twitter, in a fricking tweet, not in an interview or in any official capacity beyond him caring about the games he's made. He's like 60 and spends his days grilling meat and crushing beers with Sakaguchi. Pull your head out of your ass, goddamn you are such a pretentious moron.
>goddamn you are such a pretentious moron
Ironic words from a guy defending the WOTL script
(NTA)
point to where I did that
I am making assumptions. Allow me to rephrase.
>(Those would be) ironic words from a guy defending the WOTL script
Yeah because tweets are an even better source of information.
God damn zoomers are the dumbest generation of all time.
Quoting developers is moronic. You're moronic. Sorry if this makes you feel bad about yourself.
>Yeah because tweets are an even better source of information.
I mean considering they don't adhere to any of your schizophrenic assumptions about every other way of communicating with developers, yeah.
>quoting developers is moronic
And quoting writers is moronic, and quoting directors is moronic, and...oh wait
Correct, I only quote the voices inside my head.
Jesus frick you are an idiot. Insane how much spoonfeeding can be required here sometimes.
THE CENTRAL THESIS:
Quoting developers that agree with you to support your point is moronic, was moronic, and always will be moronic.
ARGUMENT:
Quotes are often taken out of context. They may be made out of politeness, for marketing reasons, for social reasons (eg agreeableness to an interviewer), or any number of other reasons. They may be made carelessly, thoughtlessly, or to pander to specific people. They may be outright mistaken.
BUT TWITTER
Twitter is even worse. People condense thoughts into worthless snippets for the instant feedback, there's even less reason to give weight to tweets.
If a developer actually has something interesting to say, those quotes can be worth sharing. "Dev shares my opinion!" posts are pathetic and stupid.
Are you the same person who said Persona 3 isn't thematically about death because the protagonists are optimists?
Never played persona. Did you even quote the right post? I haven't weighed in on any of this FF10 vs FF12 shit.
Something in your post reminded me of that guy, but nevermind. You're too coherent to be him anyway.
moron.
>two short comments calling out my moronation are extremely defensive
>my unhinged rant? not defensive at all.
wild.
Yes, my rant is offensive, not defensive. Figures you are too stupid to tell the obvious difference.
Ivalice isn't even an actual consistent thing
Wish they would give us an Ivalice game set during the collapse/catastrophe.
tfw X and Tactics are my 2 favorite FFs.
"Ramza and Ovelia live" was bullshit right? Like even if the writer claims that was always the intention, the people who implemented it in the game staged the ending like they both died?
If you mean Alma, don't worry, I get them confused too
i mean ovelia
she (canonically) survives the stabbing at end of game and i think thats dumb
I'm glad for her, but it does lower the dramatic stakes a bit.
I guess whether it was intended depends on what is said in the Brave Story in the PS1 version. I don't remember and I don't know if it's written online anywhere
Ramza and Alma are BELIEVED to be dead. There's no ambiguity here, that's the entire point of the funeral cutscene at the end. Their ties to Ivalice's endless politicking and power games are cut and they're now free to pursue their own lives somewhere else.
Ovelia surviving the ending is 100% bullshit though.
I always find Ovelia surviving to be the most hilarious possibility ever. Does she just stare at Delita angrily for the rest of their lives? They both stabbed each other but neither died and they both never tried again?
Ovelia still dies, Delita doesn't. Not sure where the rumor mill started turning about her surviving, but Matsuno confirmed on Twitter she was dead in the same breath he confirmed Alma and Ramza lived to see another day after the Ultima showdown.
If she was too stupid to cast MBarrier first that's her own damn fault
anything they touch will end up shit. Too many managers and investors meddling
A prequel, not sequel, would be ideal for FFT
Ah yes, they should return to making half finished games.
An FFT remake would probably be ass unless they fundamentally overhauled the actual gameplay (because, aside from the job system, it's the weakest component of the game) which would piss off all of its original fans. Just leave it alone.
SET SAIL FOR FAIL!
Yasumi Matsuno had a Melty!
Yasumi Matsuno is out for a Month!
Yasumi Matsuno took a stroll to Madworld!
A Mental Matsuno Melty Month!
?