It was a good series.
What you would have changed?
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Suikoden
It was a good series.
What you would have changed?
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Make every game after 2 better.
Give 3 the time it needed to be polished.
Reduce the encounter rate in 4 as well as go back to the 6 person party.
and 5.. i dunno, its good but i dont like the story as much. ended up agreeing with the villain more than the protagonist.
Oh, and make a full tactical game out of the large scale combat from 5.
>What you would have changed?
aside for Konami's dickishness?
Just don’t make IV
4 was the one that needed the most polish. I am still not clear if Tactics was actually cut content, but they really both need to be played to fill out 4. And 4 clearly had a ton of cut content.
5 needs to just be sped up slightly. It's beginning is so fricking slow.
Let Murayama alone and let him do whatever he wanted to do with the series.
he now has his own series, the first game was a beat 'em up or whatever
heyjuden chronicles when?
get hype
>What you would have changed?
Maintain the heavy feel of the first Suikoden game. The first one felt like there was actual weight to the conflict. Your best friend died. One of your dear friends, Pahn, died if you didn't know to levelgrind beforehand. Your father died. Your best friend and pseudo-father figure Gremio died. And two of your closest comrades two of the greatest warriors of the resistance, Flik and Viktor, are MIA and died in the castle at the end (until S2 retconned that). The montage of all of the character's fates with the music playing really sold the impact of the war.
In every Suikoden game after, it feels more like a happy-go-lucky JRPG adventure in which very little meaningful actually happens.
S3 had a great premise of three conflicting protagonists, but then pussied out with everyone joining together. When Hugo attacked Chris, the player should have been able to pick who to play as and the other person died in the fight.
Gremio is a mother figure (male)
This anon sums it up, Suikoden 1 feels so much for fanciful, somber, oriental than it's sequels. You also forgot Mathieu's gambit and sacrifice, much more interesting than Shu, Ceasar or Apple. Or Sanchez betraying you at the end. Forgiving Milich, or any of the Generals, is seen as so important as Gremio literally JUST died when you are given the choice. At least 2 had better monogames, but the series lost even that eventually.
Oh, needs more of my Waifu Sierra.
>Gremio
>dead
Only in the secret ending most people didn't see
not knowing anything about pesmerga/yuber
Not much. I agree with and
Although combining them, I just wish we got to get Suikoden VI set in Harmonia & it would ideally wrap up or at least continue the Yuber & Pesmerga storyline. Probably have a story set around the Howling Voice Guild and the Church's dual struggles for power over some McGuffin true rune. Set it some time after three so we could possibly even see some old favorites come back as it would be the series' swan song.
I'm sure every fan has their ideal Suikoden VI in their head, but I'm just glad the team gets to make something new. I kinda like the Suikoden ended so open ended, it's what leaves room for all this fan speculation and discussion that makes the series so unique.
Replace 4 with the Harmonia game so the series has a proper ending
Combine 4 and Suikoden Tactics into one game called Suikoden Tactics
5 can stay
make Junko Kawano work on 3 because that art style was fricking terrible
Absolute shit take.
Keep it 2d.
Make Ted the Tony Stark of the series. Like have everything either have a hint of his involvement in the story or a deep background story that continues throughout the series, ending in the 6th title.
Make it so it's all his fault from the very beginning along with leknaat(?) and her sisters.
More unique character designs that still fits the games.
One cameo from a another konami game. Only in the background of a random town.
This boards hard-on for S1 is so fricking weird. The game was barebones, short, and the combat and inventory were the worst in the series. I don't know why you people constantly exaggerate it's narrative as something it's not. Yeah, people die but 90% of them have like 4 lines of dialogue or die 5 minutes after being introduced. The conflict is extremely simple and straightforward and you steam roll the frick out of the Scarlet Moon except for 2 short retreats against Teo and Milich. Recruitment has no variety to it. The characters are barely characters outside of about 7 of them. I wish I played the game you guys played because the game I played was okay, but very rough in most areas.
I sincerely doubt most people collect all the stars on their first play through.
If 1 wasn’t good then it wouldn’t have started a franchise.
What you might not be able to understand is the feeling that fans had when the game came out of the larger universe that could be. Once this was filled out and felt to be imperfect by the fans, they wish the series could be the great thing they had envisioned.
back in my day we had to fill in the gaps of character interaction by visiting the character in new locations as the castle expands. I question your value of the characters if you didn't try to engage with them outside of the plot. Absolutely 2 expands on the mini game/side scenario nature of the game, but to act like there isn't time to grow appreciative of some the 108 characters is a grand statement. The music is also better than the rest of the series.
I'm in my 30's and I played S1 and S2 when I was in high school. This isn't a generational thing this is simply the game lacking in that area. PS1 is when narratives really started to expand and S1 just feels like a game from 1992.
Same, 30s and I played the games in elementary school as they came out. I think it's not so much what the characters say or do, but how they contribute to the idea of a living world; a world narrative. The narrative of Suikoden 1 is definitely rudimentary compared to some of its contemporaries, but its world building is not. Each character hints at places beyond, lifestyles and ideas only touched upon in the game. They tease at the idea of bigger things to come - and occasionally deliver on them. It is a pretty engrossing and very different approach to world building than any other series that I'm aware of, and while it is at its most primitive in Suikoden 1, Suikoden 1 also lays the groundwork for very big and exciting things that, to some degree, realize the promises it made.
Compared to newer games? Probably.
Compared to 1990s fare? Suikoden is awesome.
>The conflict is extremely simple and straightforward
Good. When it comes to JRPGs the only two options seemed to be "simple" and "overwrought" and Suikoden did the former perfectly. It was just a nice, simple game that you could blow through and enjoy.
I feel that we've ran into the opposite problem where instead of characters talking so little, now they constantly have a quip for EVERY/ANYTHING and never shut up.
Completely disagree. There was nothing special or good about S1's lack of everything. That game didn't feel focused or concise it felt bare. You're supposed to give a shit about characters like Pahn, Cleo, Teo but you can't because they're barely there or say anything. You're supposed to care about Odessa and her death is supposed to be a big moment but you spend a whole 10 minutes with her and have a single conversation. Or Sonya, who's supposed to be Teo's quasi GF and somebody that could have easily been Tir's step mother but she's a complete non character in the game that has maybe one paragraphs of dialogue in total. The lack of dialogue here isn't some amazing instance of keeping a game focused, it's a detriment to the story it's trying to tell.
I feel like you might actually be missing the point. The whole thing is based on a book. This book. And the point isn't to have a large amount of complex ever change characters. The point is to have a larger group of people, some regular some not, gather together for a cause under the whims of destiny.
More to point how much time do you actually need before a character is developed? In those 10 minutes Odessa's goals, dreams hopes and even some flaws where all laid bare. Any dialogue would just be reiterating and dragging out ideas and motives to the point of annoyance and for what? So dullards can arbitrarily decide when a character is developed or fleshed out based on superficial exposition and bloated dialogue. Odessa matters because she's someone who showed the MC a different outlook.
Why are so many people so obsessed with over analyzing and over explaining simple concepts and story beats. The world feels more lived in because the characters are pre-developed with their own ideas and concepts that doesn't always get expanded on beyond introducing the concept for the player to mull over.
Most of the 108 Stars of Destiny in Suikoden 1 speak more than the 108 Stars of Destiny in Water Margin. Half of them just disappear immediately after being introduced and are never mentioned again in Water Margin.
I was actually surprised how briefly many of them appeared. I swear if you took a drink every time the phrase "And let us never speak of him again" was said you'd be black out by chapter 3. It's hilarious. Guy who stamps a paper to get some other guy transferred is a star of destiny.
Is the book worth reading? From what I've seen it's more of a bunch of villains come to live together and de heinous things instead of the more heroic plots in the game.
Depends on your preferences, the various escapades and battles the characters find themselves in are entertaining; but if you're not vibing with the story after the detective gets his nose cut off, or a general runs off to join the bandits that robbed him (after getting drunk), then I'd tell you to drop it.
Like all ancient Chinese literature it will come off as weird to a westerner because it draws from different cultural values.
I liked it. If you haven't read old histories of any sort, be prepared. It's not a history, but it's style borrows from that trend of Chinese writing and has a very specific feel.
>Why are so many people so obsessed with over analyzing and over explaining simple concepts and story beats.
I think a lot of them were raised on a diet of nitpicky idiot posts and youtube "essays", so yo have people who will build a detailed diagram of character relationships and plot flowcharts but can't explain the themes and idea of a story to save their life.
>Why are so many people so obsessed with over analyzing and over explaining simple concepts and story beats.
Nobody is over analyzing shit, bro. I'm literally just talking about how the story's lack of dialogue undermines the emotional impact it's going for, the emotional impact you guys are claiming makes the game so great and better than the others in the series. If that's over analyzing to you then you've got some problems. Also, it being inspired by the Water Margin is irrelevant.
>I think a lot of them were raised on a diet of nitpicky idiot posts and youtube "essays", so yo have people who will build a detailed diagram of character relationships and plot flowcharts but can't explain the themes and idea of a story to save their life.
Oh frick off with this bullshit. Every time somebody brings up a flaw with an older game you gays just try to divert it into being zoomer or whatever. I'm probably older than you, played S1 in like 1998. The game has flaws and isn't the narrative tour de force it's being made out to be in any way. I like S1 but I'm not going to pretend it's something it's not or ignore where it could have been better executed.
>The game has flaws and isn't the narrative tour de force it's being made out to be in any way
Sure, Odessa just isn't one of them. Your post is again the nitpicky homosexual bullshit we were talking about. "Where it could be better executed"? Where could it be better executed, mr. I don't have a schedule or budget or deadlines to keep? How does that affect the overall themes of the game? Would giving more dialogue to Qlon improved on you opus? Or maybe that wasn't the point.
>Why are so many people so obsessed with over analyzing and over explaining simple concepts and story beats.
Wiki compiler syndrome.
I always thought Odessa was pretty effective for that reason. Combined with the constant reminder in the background with Flik's sword being named Odessa.
It does a lot to imply the importance of a person who fought and died, and it does so without belaboring it. I really believe the strong usage of implication in Suikoden is one of its major strengths.
JRPGs developing bloat-cancer because it was presumed they were all gonna be 50 hours long at minimum was part of why the genre died. A 15 hour game is absolutely no demerit when we're all just pirating them to play on emulation now.
I just dropped Suikoden 5 over this. Every time a cutscenes happens you have to walk all the way back to base before you walk all the way back for the next cutscenes. When I had to go through the mountain pass again I just turned it off and never turned it back on
Show all of the True Runes. There are 27, but whe only know 18 of them
Make Suikoden V's country not completely fricking moronic
>was
D-do you mean it's never coming back?
Konami doesn't make games anymore just pachinko machines.
Wring a beginning/middle/end for the whole series out of the guy who quit during 3, then use that as scaffolding for future games. Drives me bonkers the timeline just doesn't advance after 3.
Remove random encounters and add mobs in the world instead.
Introduce more mythical creatures.
More combination attacks, including magic.
Add romance.
More war battles.
Fix all the nonsensical lore about the true runes.
No loading screens.
The story and gameplay will focus on one city only.
More references to older games and have more companions from previous games than before.
Make the MC look like a man.
>Fix all the nonsensical lore about the true runes
What exactly is nonsensical about the lore of the true runes?
>Make the MC look like a man
Only 5's MC didn't look like a man.
Oof, stinky.
>just dumb it fown and make it mediocre
Make every game after 2 2D.
Is the NDS game any good?
Yes. It's a perfectly fine JRPG with good music.
Play undub if you can, because the english VO were on drugs.
Imouto waifus.
Add more black people/race change existing characters.
Make the game 3d and first person shooter rpg like fallout 4.
We already have kobolds and ~~*dwarves*~~.
Good start, except the part about one city. Maybe one region, with a large capital city, smaller towns, and lots of villages.
Larger party sizes, and occasions where you need to build multiple parties for different, simultaneous tasks.
The cast is one of this series' greatest strengths, yet it's entirely pointless.
6 party members is plenty but the lack of multi-party events was a missed opportunity
Suiko 3 has its problems but it's still my favorite of the Suiko games just for Budehuc Castle
god I remember when my brother bought Suikoden 3 and booted it up for the first time. Shame about the end game, though, and the cast..