I was in a campaign that entered a hiatus because the DM was not happy with what SWN could offer, and the game is stopped until we could find a different, better system to play the campaign with
In their words. They said they want a system that can allow them to set up interesting challenges besides just puzzles
And that with SWN, all they can set up is roll-offs and bad combat
Anyone knows of any interesting systems, preferably for sci-fi settings that we could use? Please, I really enjoy this campaign and would be sad to see it just die off
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Give more information. Your GM sounds moronic at present.
I dont completely understand exactly what their issue is but this is their exact wording
>I'm looking for something with a way to present structural problems to my players which aren't solved by making shit up
Right now with SWN I have this issue where I either present a challenge which entirely ignores the system (puzzles, social situations) or offer a boring dice check challenge (combat, hacking, etc)
>which aren't solved by making shit up
He has burnout. Retire him.
I dont know if it is burnout since this is the first campaign they ran with this system
This might just be what they needed actually. A toolbox like this for them to play around and shape the campaign to their liking could bring out a spark of inspiration in em
>I dont know if it is burnout since this is the first campaign they ran with this system
Burnout isn't dependent on system. You can switch systems every week and still get burnt out on GMing.
SWN has its flaws but the complaints alleged here seem to be system agnostic or poorly defined, even after elaboration.
Your GM may just want something with more classes like Starfinder? Ofcourse the problem with Starfinder is you'd have to like playing Pathfinder and it has perhaps too much bloat in it. Its also clearly more sci-fantasy, which is what turned me away from it in, myself.
Your GM could also try Traveler, but I get the feeling the problem won't really go away even with a system change.
It is very possible the DM is just burnt out as well then. I'll still suggest these systems and see if those can inspire 'em, but you have a point, the problem might be more than just the system
How long has the campaign been running?
Can you give examples of what's happened?
How long has he been GMing campaigns without a significant break?
About 7-8 sessions of 3-5 hours or so
There hasnt actually been any combat
First few sessions were the party stealing a nobleman's ship to flee the system and find somewhere safe
Then the crew just finished a big underground job and got enough money to get some ship upgrades and fill it vehicles, and got someone to move some sticks around so that we dont have to worry about the documents of our stolen ship
As for the DM, well... They have a bit of a history of their campaigns not getting very far
NTA but a mistake with SWN is using it to run narrative heavy games, its best used for sandbox games with a lot of player drive.
Is that so? Well so far things HAVE been pretty sandboxy. Our party has no greater objective or grand quest we are after (Aside from my character but that's a long-term investment)
>complains about bad combat
>has never run combat
>campaigns don't last long
Sounds like someone that should run focused 1 shots.
SWN is a sandboxy system which usually will focus on player goals. Most SWN games I've played in have rotated between spotlighting characters and focusing on resolving a major long term goal they have.
The GM turn provides plothooks for players to latch onto and the GM just has to weave those into existing narratives and player backstories.
You totally could run it like normal with the players working on a unifying 'quest', but generally I've experienced it being run character focused. But yeah don't go full narrative with it. You should be getting into combat.
>Sounds like someone that should run focused 1 shots
You might be right on the money with that
The tragedy of oneshots though is that they end up not having character arcs or interesting character development
Plus I'm the kind of player who likes to start with an idea of a character and slowly discover them through the narrative, see how they'd develop, and I've been so in love with the character I made for this campaign, I really dont want to let it go
Get a better GM.
I think this DM is fine, I just want to help with their issues
The help is one shots.
run the game yourself you lazy frick.
"Laziness" is an ignorant way to describe a whole host of only superficially related problems. This is contrast to "homosexual," which is what you are.
We are not picking up that 1.5 game man, this one has priority!
Hey I'm the GM, I just happened to stumble upon this thread by chance. Ironically I came here to look for a thread where I could maybe ask for system suggestions for this very game.
the thing about having never run combat is that the players never engaged in it, and they never found themselves in a situation where combat was unavoidable. They have been playing very carefully and I feel like throwing an encounter their way just because defeats the purpose of the system.
that said we had a combat tutorial encounter in our first session and I got really negative responses from that, mostly because some players felt very limited in what they could do during combat itself, so I haven't exactly been clamouring to run that again.
Hey, GM. Did you check out GURPS? It probably isn't a bad way to go if you're looking to move to another system, especially if characters tend to treat combat as a real, deadly threat.
Are you guys playing in person or on Discord or something?
I have zero GURPS knowledge past the fact that fallout 1 is based on it, but if you tell me which edition is currently relevant I will definitely check it out.
We play over VTT, our group is spread out all over the world. Right now I've been using Foundry for this game just because I'm good at customizing it.
The mainline edition of GURPS is 4th edition, but there are very few differences between 3e and 4e in general. It's very easy to convert anything you find for GURPS 3e to 4e, if it needs converting at all.
I mentioned before, GURPS is not really an RPG itself, it's more like a reference guide and framework for building your own custom RPG. That's really how it's best used. If you look at the Basic Set, you'll find it has literally hundreds of skills and advantages/disadvantages. You definitely don't need all, or even most of that. Depending on how mechanically complex you want the game to be, the GM can pick what skills and advantages/disadvantages are relevant and pitch the rest.
Supplements for GURPS are actually mostly either fluff, or "we did some of the work for you" things where they just take the rules found in the Basic Set and build on them. They rarely introduce entirely new mechanics, just examples of how things might work using what's established.
Another thing you might want to consider: don't pay too much attention to the point system. They are for GMs more than players. Some people play GURPS and say "okay, here's the list of skills and advantages to pick from, build your PC from 100 points" or whatever, but what I've taken to doing is creating "skill packages" and "ability packages" myself and letting the players pick those, then adjusting things slightly to fit the player's concept and ignoring the point values altogether. You can also use the "wildcard" version of skills, which are more broadly defined groups of skills; i.e., the "Guns!" skill as opposed to Guns (Pistols), Guns (Rifles), Guns (Shotguns), etc.,
What are you using for characters sheets on Foundry? I was using wintermute's SWN module but the UI/font/scale is just awful.
I'm using wintermute's too but haven't updated it since before the first V10 release, before the ui overhaul.
Very nice description, thanks man, I will definitely check GURPS out, if anything just because it sounds like an interesting concept.
Oneshots with our style of games wouldn't work, we take it slow and spend hours going through single scenes. I think SWN's way of doing planets as their own independent little sci-fi episode is actually as close to the concept of a oneshot as we can get. And like my player mentioned, we do like our character arcs.
I'm just going off your player mentioning that campaigns don't last long.
I love character arcs, but I have never for the life of me managed to stay on a campaign for more than like 2 months without really dragging myself to it afterwards.
I just run oneshots for my group now, sometimes PCs and npcs will reoccur but each set of 1-4 sessions is very encapsulated.
(Reoccuring characters are sometimes literally the same character, sometimes a reincarnation that is essentially the same but updated to fit whatever setting we're using at the time.) It's made GMing fun for me again and I don't disappoint my players by ending shit earlier than they expected anymore.
You can do your best and still fail, it's not weakness, it's life.
Controlling circumstances are the job of the GM, sometimes to get what they want force may be the best option. That's for you to determine. Let skills and ingenuity help of course, but not always completely negate the occurence of a fight.
Although I can only guess how combat averse the players are being.
Combat options vary greatly on the ingenuity of the players and what foci they picked. It's not exactly more lacking than many other RPGs I've played. Although experts will probably end up sitting behind cover and making attack rolls
Personally I find combat goes best when things hit hard and die quick but it all depends on your group. Making sure to make use of enemy morale can help combat not drag.
Without heavy detail not sure how to help, from your player's description it sounds like you'd have more fun running one shots.
These complaints don't seem to have anything to do with SWN?
That describes most RPGs, very few have mechanics for social or puzzles and otherwise it's skill checks and meh combat.
>And that with SWN, all they can set up is roll-offs and bad combat
creative bankruptcy
put the fricking dice down
*claps dirt off hands*
Pack it in boys, we got another one where GURPS (greatest system ever) solves the problem
HYTNPSWN?
That looks pretty complete, I'll suggest it to them. Thank you very much
To be completely serious, GURPS may actually be solution. Assuming you jive well with a fairly realism-based simulationist ruleset, it is very good at being able to convert already-existing campaigns into it.
It may not be a good solution if your GM is burnt out, though. GURPS is not like a regular roleplaying game, it's more like a toolkit for building your own custom roleplaying game using its framework. It will likely take some work. It's not a drag and drop solution, you will need to read up on it and think about what mechanics, rules, and skills you want to include from it into your game, because it's not really built for you to use everything.
>Wait an entire week before making this thread in hopes DM wouldnt see it before it gets pruned
>They find it in 2 hours
At least now I dont need to act as an intermediate anymore, I guess
I appreciate your commitment to the game (and to your blue alien pc).