>Tera is literally more OP than dynamax
>the entire reason why smogon has not banned the mechanic yet is just because social pressure, so they ban a good chunk of mons every season
>Tera is literally more OP than dynamax
>Tera is literally more OP than dynamax
>the entire reason why smogon has not banned the mechanic yet is just because social pressure, so they ban a good chunk of mons every season
>Tera is literally more [schizo babbling]
It is ontologically impossible for a frogposter to make a good thread.
That makes sense because frogs don't have teeth
>NOOOOOO! How am I supposed to play the game if muh fire/rock mon turn into something that resist water?
do smogoncucks realy?
>Tera is literally more OP than dynamax
It is emphatically not. No matter how much you screech about Smogon bans, Tera is nowhere near as bad as Dynamax.
It might be with the new 19th Tera type, we'll see.
>Tera is nowhere near as bad as Dynamax.
It's much better
If they want to ban everything then they're not even playing the same game.
I still can't believe that Game Freak lets you keep your original STAB when you Tera. What were they thinking
Not only to keep our stab, but you get to hold any items and your tera stays if you switch out. It's a shitty gimmick.
i fricking love watching finch and the other morons sweat their assess off in the forums
smogon is literally some kinda nazi joke about gassing israelites with koffing now taken hostage by trannies
why the frick would I care about something so schizophrenic
>game mechanic both players can equally use on any of their pokemon
>broken
>players can equally choose any pokemon
>yet pokemon are still banned
Pokemon can be broken relative to other Pokemon. A game mechanic can’t be broken relative to itself you absolute moron.
Some Pokemon make better use of a particular game mechanic than other Pokemon do. Because of this a mechanic can be considered unbalanced if particular Pokemon benefit heavily from it and most others get very little benefit.
>Some Pokemon make better use of a particular game mechanic than other Pokemon do
Some Pokemon make better use of switching than other Pokemon do. Does that mean we should ban switching?
>Pokemon can now be broken relative to other Pokemon because switching exists
>therefore we should ban switching instead of the broken Pokemon
You really liked that so much you had to use it twice?
>please stop using a valid argument it doesn't count if you use it more than once!!!
Get a better coping mechanism.
>any random that insults me is the person I'm arguing with
Autism.
When a mechanic has been around for the whole of a game's existence, people will generally demand that Pokemon be banned if there's a particular group of Pokemon that get a ridiculous advantage from that particular mechanic. When a new mechanic comes along and that same number of Pokemon get a ridiculous advantage from it, people are more likely to demand the mechanic be banned.
It's maybe not the most logical thing, but it is pretty consistent if you look at games in general. Also every mechanic in the game is used better by some Pokemon than by others, some level of imbalance is inevitable in an asymmetric game like Pokemon. The question is always whether the imbalance reaches a point where you need to do something about it.
>When a mechanic has been around for the whole of a game's existence,
Dynamax was around all of Sword and Shield's existence. Terastal is around all of Scarlet and Violet's existence.
>I-I'm not involved in the argument but I'm going to respond anyway and start crying when I'm treated as if I'm involved
Autism.
As in Pokemon, the game that functions more-or-less the same as it did in 1996. New mechanics added on to Pokemon, the franchise, in a new Pokemon game, will be treated differently than ones that have been around for decades.
> As in Pokemon, the game that functions more-or-less the same as it did in 1996
Sword and Shield doesn’t exist in 1996. It exists in 2019. If you want the 1996 game then play the 1996 game.
Yeah, what were they thinking? Why do they let me switch and keep my item at the same time?
You're really throwing out the baby with the bathwater here purely to win a silly argument. Am I supposed to understand that competitive Pokemon players who claim to have years of experience are in fact lying to me, as the newest game only came out a year ago?
>years of experience
Years of experience with what?
You’re right. Switching was a mistake.
Years of experience with what?
Playing Pokemon, thus why they call themselves Pokemon players.
>Playing Pokemon
What Pokemon?
I'm not going to play this silly game. When a new Pokemon game comes out experienced players don't have to learn the vast majority of mechanics in the game, they have to learn how a single gimmick works and they have to find all the little changes that are functionally equivalent to a patch. Someone who has put thousands of hours into Pokemon games is going to figure out a new Pokemon game much, much faster than someone who has never played a Pokemon game before. This isn't controversial in the slightest, you're just angry about it for some reason.
>When a new Pokemon game comes out
Yes. New Pokemon game. Meaning it isn't the same game as before. Meaning banning Dynamax is moronic.
Banning a mechanic if it breaks the game that competitive players want to play is completely fine, almost all competitive scenes do it. It being the 'feature gimmick' of that game is irrelevant to that fact.
Yes, and it takes some amount of time to figure it out. But your ability to figure that out is accelerated when you understand how all the other mechanics of the game work in-depth and have seen how previous additions have shifted the meta.
>Banning a mechanic if it breaks the game
Define "breaks the game".
Outside of softlocking or crashing the game, 'breaking the game' is a subjective measurement. The thing about Pokemon being a long series with very similar gameplay is that when competitive players decide to play a new game, they have expectations about what the experience is going to be. When a new mechanic is such a dominant part of the meta that the difference between winning and losing a game consistently comes down to whether you use that single mechanic effectively or not, that's considered gamebreaking for people who like using all the other mechanics of the game due to using them in other titles. Regardless of whether you feel Dynamax is that gamebreaking, can you at least agree that what I am describing counts as gamebreaking?
You're right. Switching should be banned because the difference between winning and losing a game consistently comes down to whether you use that single mechanic effectively or not.
>b-but they have expectations from the other ga-
It's not the same game. If you want the same game they still exist. Go play them instead.
People have made successful builds that have nothing to do with switching, so it's plainly not broken in the way I describe.
>People have made successful builds that have nothing to do with switching,
People have made successful builds that have nothing to do with Dynamax.
Great! Then agree with me that if a mechanic becomes the single decider of whether or not you win a game, that mechanic is likely broken, and we can agree to disagree on whether or not that applies to Dynamax.
>if a mechanic becomes the single decider of whether or not you win a game, that mechanic is likely broken
You're right. Switching is broken.
Do you believe switching is the single decider of whether or not you win a game?
Do you believe Dynamax is the single decider of whether or not you win a game?
>Yes, but why are they intrinsically designed to target both opponents and affect both the target and their ally?
So they have more utility.
>Why are there no Max Moves that only target a single opponent
There actually are Max Moves that only target a single opponent. Play the game.
>Do you believe Dynamax is the single decider of whether or not you win a game?
Irrelevant to our conversation, you've made the argument that a single mechanic can never be considered broken because both players can use the mechanic. Let's say there was a simple win button, and whoever gets to go first can use the win button and instantly win. Would it be unfair to ban that mechanic from competitive play because it's a part of the game?
>Irrelevant to our conversation
It is relevant to our conversation though.
What lead you had and what you switch absolutely determined the rest of the game in VGC, yes.
>It is relevant to our conversation though.
Explain why it is.
>Explain why it is.
Because (You) keep crying about it being the reason for the mechanic being banned.
I don't give a shit about whether any given mechanic gets banned, I give a shit about your terrible argument that a mechanic can never be broken. So justify it or admit that you're wrong.
>I don't give a shit about whether any given mechanic gets banned
Glad you agree Dynamax shouldn't be banned.
Well I'd like to agree with you but sadly the only argument you've made is nonsense. I'm a foolish anon who can't figure things out for himself, so can you explain why your argument is correct?
>Well I'd like to agree with you
So you do give a shit that Dynamax got banned? Make up your mind.
Golly, I don't know what to think anon! I'm real stupid and I can only know whether Dynamax should've been banned or not if you give an argument justifying why it shouldn't have been banned.
>justifying why it shouldn't have been banned
Why should I when you haven't given a justification for why it should have been banned?
Well see, I'm not the person who banned it, I'm just some random guy on the internet. All I know is that some people say it's bad and you're here saying they're wrong, but your only explanation so far has been that a game mechanic can never be broken. Is that correct?
>I-I'm just le fence sitter
Nah, I don't think so. It's pretty obvious you support its ban and you're seething that you ran out of arguments.
No way! I have no opinion on this whatsoever, I wanna join you on the righteous side but alas I can't unless I hear an argument that makes sense. Help me out bud <3
lmao your seethe levels are off the charts
We're just having fun on Ganker together, there's nothing to be mad about. I'm just confused, before you were happy to explain that game mechanics can't be broken but now you're not doing it? What's going on?
He just wants (You)s, it should be obvious by the way he argues.
You are being way more disingenuous than he is, there isn’t a method through which you could “prove” something “isn’t broken” when that concept is so subjective and resorting to reduction ad absurdum of “a button that wins the game automatically” is homosexual as hell
Well maybe he should stop deflecting by trying to unironically argue that Switching is somehow more broken.
What lead you had and who you dynamax absolutely determined the rest of the game in VGC, yes.
>pilpul
Yes, and it used to be balanced because we had a move called Pursuit that punished switching. But now it's gone as of SWSH, and Switching is broken beyond belief due to Heavy Duty Boots nullifying hazards.
3+ pokemon with heavy duty boots on a team is broken
Dynamax dumbsdown the game significantly and made the game more luck/match-up dependent than it already is. Games often just become unwinnable at team preview, even if you were using regular teams.
Knowing basic mechanics doesn’t mean you know how it’s going to affect the metagame
>Switching was a mistake.
Good one, I thought you being serious.
If somebody told me their input on Swsh meta was valid because they played Gen 2 tournaments at official events yeah I would disregard their opinion of the meta.
He is right you can’t make cross-gen comparisons like this
If someone exclusively has experience with other gens then yeah that's obviously bullshit, but it's pretty easy for seriously experienced comp players to see when a mechanic's horribly out of whack at this point because they have so much experience playing Pokemon over various generations and seeing how new mechanics effect the balance of the game.
There is no such thing as an “experienced comp player” 2 weeks into a new gen
Okay and? Did gen 10 just come out and people are arguing about its meta? No, we're talking about games that are at minimum a year old and players' understanding of those games were aided by their previous knowledge of Pokemon games. People understand the meta in SwSh or SV far, far faster than they did back in RSE, the current meta for those games is far more developed than RSE was circa 1-3 years down the line.
>Yeah, what were they thinking?
Because Gamefreak is creatively bankrupt when it comes to these moronic gimmicks. I'm high on hopium that they drop this shit and competitive returns to form. I can't realistically see them continue this tread of le gimmick button nukes.
I mean ability change and fusions is what I see coming next, but we're full digimon at this point.
>Pokemon with 2 abilities
>no u
Hahaha you aren't white.
I'm not saying tera should be banned, I'm saying that you have moron logic.
don't ban tera, don't ban mons, let the smoggin trannies cry
>Add Pokemon to game mechanic
>Pokemon can now be broken relative to other Pokemon due to game mechanic
There is not ONE broken pokemon
If you lose it is purely a skill issue 100% of the time
N-NO!!111 LOGIC IS NOT ALLOWED HERE
THIS IS /VP/!
A game changing mechanic that can be activated at any time with no real limitation beyond only working once per battle is very broken
Game Freak needs to go back to making gimmicks tied to held items, absolute freedom in teambuilding just leads to matchup fishing.
Not happening, people complained that Megas were only given to developer favorites and shillmons, and then people complained that all the good unique Z-Moves were given to developer favorites and shillmons.
That's why all of the GMaxes were worse than regular DMaxes, and it's also why they're letting every Pokemon have the 19th Tera Type while limiting snowflake privileges to Legendaries like Ogerpon and Terapagos.
>A game changing mechanic that can be activated at any time with no real limitation beyond only working once per battle is very broken
[citation needed]
>Except one terra doen't counter another player's terra.
Yeah? And?
whats matchup fishing
Except one terra doen't counter another player's terra.
Mega vs mega or Dmax vs Dmax had at leas some parity.
With terra it's rock paper scisor who's type chosen pre-game happens to counter the other person's pre-selected type
You get 6 fricking teras
The only ones that are matchup roulette are megas and Z moves since they cost a resource
In that case, Dynamax doesn’t counter Dynamax either. Since Dynamax is a lot of moving part, moves and typing are a huge factor.
Nah Dynamax was inherently unbalanced by letting any Pokemon with a Flying type move sweep you, and to a lesser extent a Fighting type/Poison type move. Tera is way less direct in dominating fights. It's mainly the aggressive speed buffers that can abuse it, similarly to the Max Airstream situation.
>Dynamax
>Only 3 turns
>Only few Mons benefir from the increase in HP
>Only worthwhile moves are max airstream
>Tera
>Many pokemon that were cucked by their type are now set free and can shit on their counters like roaring moon
>Super STAB basically made many things unstoppable like the fish in the base Game or bax right now
>Changing types made things unkilleable like megainfernape or gliscor
Yep, that's less broken
>>Many pokemon that were cucked by their type are now set free and can shit on their counters like roaring moon
Ok now replace type with speed tier and that's Dynamax, especially with HP cushioning to deal with their types.
STAB basically made many things unstoppable like the fish in the base Game or bax right now
Not like Dynamax doesn't inherently boost the move power.
types made things unkilleable like megainfernape or gliscor
You don't have to remain unkillable the whole time if you can just position yourself to sweep.
Can't wait for Tera to frick off next Gen (just for them to introduce another shittier gimmick)
There's no reason to ever ban something that both teams are going to have without sacrificing anything else to include it. It doesn't matter how strong it is if both sides have it for free. You might as well complain that having 6 team slots is broken compared to having 5, why does it matter if everyone has 6 anyways? Yeah it's better than having 5 by miles, but it doesn't matter.
more like the introduction of uubers made them less hesitant to ban stuff, since it does not go straight to all the broken legendaries
Everyone outside of Smogon collectively clowned on them when they banned Dynamax extremely early into the gen's meta and the council hated that, so this time they're waiting until they have full justification to ban Tera via DLC.
The 19th Tera Type and the realistic likelihood of overpowered Tera Transformations for Pokemon that are otherwise below-average are going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back, however, THEN the mechanic gets completely banned to AG courtesy of Terapagos, who will no doubt have the most overpowered Tera of them all.
No, VGC players hated Dynamax too. Everyone besides YouTuber shills and few underages did. VGC players just have to deal with it because they don’t make the rules. The VGC formats where Dynamax was banned were generally considered an improvement, and everyone celebrated when Dynamax was gone.
>No, [FANFIC]
Not really? Dynamax was literally designed with doubles in mind, so it was much more appealing to see in VGC as a result because you got to see actual strategic plays due to there being far more variables instead of braindead unga bunga sweep and braindead unga bunga countersweep like in singles.
>Not really? Dynamax was literally designed with doubles in mind
No, it was designed with the actual game in mind.
>Dynamax dumbsdown the game significantly
No it doesn't.
>Games often just become unwinnable at team preview
Maybe you should try getting better at the game before begging for entire mechanics to get banned.
>No, it was designed with the actual game in mind.
Is that why all Max Moves target both opponents and have effects that strictly affect the intended receiver AND their ally? Very strange of them to design a mechanic with such Doubles-biased aspects when the only time you'll be Double Battling in the campaign is against Raihan.
anon, I know this may come as a shock to a campaignshitter like yourself, but the effects still work in singles.
Yes, but why are they intrinsically designed to target both opponents and affect both the target and their ally?
Why are there no Max Moves that only target a single opponent, or effects that only impact a single Pokemon?
Dynamax was even more broken in Doubles than Singles. Singles didn’t have to worry about partner Pokemon activating Weakness Policy on their Dynamax teammates, or the stat stage boosts (namely Max Airstream nullifying most speed control), or weather effects, and didn’t care about Dynamax ignoring Fake Out and Protect as much. On top of all that, because VGC has only 4 Pokemon allowed per game, Dynamax would last nearly the entire game.
Also forgot to mention
>Singles could use Ditto effectively to counter Dynamax effectively, while Doubles/VGC can’t because of how imposter works
>Dynamax Pokemon turn spread moves into single target moves, so you could use actual regular moves like Earthquake to suddenly become single target Max Quakes
>In singles, if you run a stall team, you could stall out Dynamax at least with Regenerator and switching, which is far less effective in VGC
>You could also Dynamax a stallmon in Singles like Pex to stall out Dynamax turns with Max Guard, something you can’t do in VGC because your opponent can just target the partner and stall is rare in VGC
>Additionally Unaware could ignore the stat boosts and Haze could remove them, both of which are far less common in VGC too
>Moves like Wide Guard and Quick Guard were never seen in Gen 8 VGC because Dynamax fricked them over hard, despite being staples of VGC
>Smogon Doubles, their Doubles varient of OU, banned Dynamax eventually too, but not before having complex bans and banning dumbshit like justified+beat up, all because they wanted to save Dynamax
>>Tera is literally more OP than dynamax
>A type change with funny STABs is more busted than 3 Z moves that provide stat buffs or field conditions while also providing x2 HP, immunities to certain volitile status, phasing, destiny bond, and weight based moves, and can unlock choice items too
You’re delusional
Tera's only really OP due to Tera Blast, which is literally Hidden Power but better.
>the mechanics of the game being the decider of who wins the game....is le bad
lil bro really arguing that switching is a gimmick
lil bro really arguing that dynamax is a gimmick
Dynamax is a held item
Tera offensively
>Stab+ which is cool
>Single-use protean
>Tera blast which is hidden power but actually good and worth running
>Fun
Tera defensively
>At any given moment any pokemon can suddenly be immune to it’s weakness turning the entire game around
>Bullshit
>Dogshit
>Awful
Yeah, I’ll still take it over hidden power, god that shit was awful.
> >At any given moment any pokemon can suddenly be immune to it’s weakness turning the entire game around
Except only for a few typings like Flying, Ghost, Ground, and Steel. Rest are usually resisted or neutral. You also gain new weaknesses too unless you’re Levitate+Electric, which case plenty of things are still neutral against you.
Poison Gliscor rattled the player base huh
who cares about some fanfic meta
do we really need MORE demoralization coal
You don't know what you're talking about. Stick to taste testing crayons, champ.
Switching isn’t broken because it makes the game more dynamic and prevents lead match-up from determining the entire game’s outcome. Without switching, you simply either win or lose depending on the lead you pick or RNG if you managed to have identical teams.
Dynamax is broken because it significantly dumbs down the game and often makes games determined by lead match-up.
That’s all you have to say when the Dynautist goes on a tangent about how switching is broken and just recycles arguments against Dynamax.
>Dynamax is broken because it significantly dumbs down the game and often makes games determined by lead match-up.
You cannot back up this point it's just something you're asserting
>inb4 attempt to back up point with (describes what Dynamax does)
I think we should keep clowning on smogon until they can't ban anything ever anymore and let them wallow in the unbalanced hell until they stop playing
I think that would be very fun, personally
Better if you go the other way. Ban everything til the only pokemon allowed is magikarp with a neutral nature and only item allowed is shell bell.
That was Freedom cup which died pretty quickly.
Good.
Banning a game mechanic was a mistake in the first place.