phys/spec split was a mistake
life orb was a mistake
choice items other than choice band were a mistake
buffing outrage to 120 bp was a mistake
gen 4 was a mistake
Hoenngay.
No split sucks because Absol was a dark type mon that favored Physical attacks and that pissed me off as a kid.
No split makes Pokemon feel super fricking limited but gays don't like to admit that Fire Punch being special is stupid. >But the explosive punch should b-
Then why the frick do they keep giving these special attacking PUNCHES to physical FIGHTING pokemon all the time? Gamefreak is just incompetent. >But (x) was nerfed after the split
Two pokemon getting fricked over is better than half the dex being fricked over because they didn't design the game around types being all one trait of special and physical.
TL;DR
Gamefreak fricking blows.
>Then why the frick do they keep giving these special attacking PUNCHES to physical FIGHTING pokemon all the time?
...because they are more likely to have arms, will you get mad at Pokemon with mouths getting bitting moves next?
It was mostly fine, only Outrage was a mistake. Gen 4 heavy offense was mostly fun.
Gen 5 is where it all fell down with them handing out Scald like candy to every non-Ice type Water pokemon, and abilities starting to become more and more bonkers.
>and abilities starting to become more and more bonkers.
Don't worry, they balanced it out by giving starter Pokemon like Meganium and Torterra worthless hidden abilities.
>bro just make it earthquake but with a downside
Maybe if you actually used direct attacks instead of muh toxic sub leech rocks wisp the defense drops would actually come into play stalltroon
Every time you think about how overpowered earthquake is just remember that for some fricking reason Gamefreak decided it was Dig that needed the nerf after gen 1.
Earthquake has an entire type that’s immune to it, an entire ability that’s immune to it, a terrain that completely neuters it, damages your own teammates, and is crippled by burn. It’s fine.
Both Fire Blast and Hydro Pump have their uses over Flamethrower and Surf. Their accuracy is still good enough to where they are worth using when the more reliable option isn't strong enough. Meanwhile you very rarely see Thunder or Blizzard being used outside of Rain or Hail.
A miss is WAY worse than a defense drop when using a fast attacker. Defense drops are literally not a downside if your opponent cannot outspeed. Meanwhile, Dynamic Punch sits at 100 BP with the same PP as Close Combat, 50% accuracy, and a status effect that was gimped a few gens ago. What kind of balancing is that?
if i had to recommend something to you, the m***nova poster, put the actual animation in the bulbapedo image. see you next genwar thread 🙂
6 months ago
Anonymous
>take a screenshot or record my screen
lmao
6 months ago
Anonymous
>no fists shown
Shit edit. Put more effort in your next genwar thread.
what hacks should i play that take priority in buffing shitmons?
Enhancement and difficulty hacks will usually buff shitmons. Whether you agree with the changes is for you to decide.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Shit edit >Implying I edited anything
Why would I put in the effort to edit anything if I didn't even want to record my screen? I don't think you know how page revisions on wikis or web archives. >Put more effort in your next genwar thread.
Competitive is a different subject from gen quality. Superpower but with a negligible drawback was a terrible addition to the game.
6 months ago
Anonymous
You and I both know Bulbapedo would never use that image then and now. Try harder next time.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Close_Combat_(move)&oldid=1748254
Here's your groomer link
6 months ago
Anonymous
>reverted 2 minutes later
Lol, what a homosexual.
6 months ago
Anonymous
We knew about Mega Lucario in 2012? Good to know.
6 months ago
Anonymous
anus-kun...
6 months ago
Anonymous
see
We knew about Mega Lucario in 2012? Good to know.
or the web archive for the page.
6 months ago
Anonymous
nobody is going to remember a 2 minute reverted edit except you anus-kun
6 months ago
Anonymous
nobody is going to be this autistic about a screenshot from Gen 4/5 unless they didn't like the game's art direction, cloaca-kun
6 months ago
Anonymous
nah it's funny because you deliberately chose it in a flood of mega lucario pages and you could've just posted the current one. just take the L anus genwar Black person
6 months ago
Anonymous
Close Combat isn't nearly as oppressive in modern gen, so why would I use Gen 9 screenshot for it? If anything, you should be harping on me missing the page with the Gen 4 Staraptor thumbnail because I used the web archive to take my screenshot, but evidently your insecurities prevented you from finding an actual damning contradiction in my statements. Now could you stick a branch up your cloaca, pretty please?
6 months ago
Anonymous
Googling "gen 4 close combat" would've been even faster. But we all make mistakes, Eridanus.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Where's the move's typing, category, PP, BP, and accuracy in that screenshot?
6 months ago
Anonymous
None of that has changed in the main games, everyone knows that shit. You're grasping at straws.
6 months ago
Anonymous
So, just like this homosexual
did this moron really go through the page's history to pick out a gen 5 image? lmao so fricking desperate
nitpicking because I used an oldgen screenshot for a move that wasn't introduced after the shift to models? Thanks for not seeing the irony in your statement, but please stop wasting my time, pandanus.
6 months ago
Anonymous
lmao. dude. you can't fricking google. save the seethe for the next genwar thread
6 months ago
Anonymous
>"Um, you shouldn't note the data of the move when discussing it. Why? Because I don't like seeing Gen 5 screenshots!"
why are you like this lol
This
I can understand shit like Sludge Bomb over Sludge Wave because of the 30% poison but I doubt that any pokemon, who only learn Superpower, will keep this option if Close Combat was in their movepool
Why does this move feel so overpowered but Fighting type feels like shit? Is it the low spdef and not enough speed? Or is it the too many resists and immunity from ghost?
Lack of reliable coverage. Most Fighting types get fighting, normal and maybe dark as level up moves. Throw in the elemental punches - which at this stage have comparatively low power - and that's your lot.
Yeah they made absolutely everything OP after a while, power creep isn't just an issue of minmaxed stats and overtuned abilities, but happens both in move effects and move distribution.
It's crazy how weak the strong options of 20 years ago feel today.
>It's crazy how weak the strong options of 20 years ago feel today.
You say that as if there aren't later gen Pokemon that obnoxiously weak in their debut gens.
it's more like they made very powerful options, but then forgot to make most older pokemon be able to stand up with them.
see: the tons of slow, frail, mixed attackers
any recommended romhacks or even essential games that buff mons? i'm taking everything i can from all the frickin' romhacks, fangames, etc. to try and make a package that buffs everything without adding too much for cobblemon.
or maybe to use as reference for the eventual BSDP hacks
virtually every difficulty/enhancement romhack you can think of will buff shitmons, but you have to take the buffs in context of their respective games. packaging them all into one doesn't make much sense. like for example, crystal legacy makes dark type physical, so murkrow's and sneasel's buffs will reflect that
Most difficulty hacks and larger essential hacks buff shitmons, but I think mostly they still leave shitmons as shitmons. That said, I think you can't have mons be balanced throughout the game without either extremely throughtful design or adding some way of updating pokemon stats as the game progresses so that a Beedrill you get at level 10 doesn't just completely run over everything with crazy base stats until level 30-40.
You get the equivalent of +1 to a base stat for every 4 EVs invested.
Normally you can have a max of 252 EVs in a stat, equivalent to +63 to your base stat.
Gen 1+2 effectively allowed max EVs in all stats until Gen 3 limited it to 510 to spread between them.
Make those caps variable dependent on BST and you might have something. You could make the difference more visible by using a Legends-style system where the effort level bars go higher on weak species.
That would work, although you'd have to do it per mon to handle edge cases like Smeargle and likely would have to either adjust the max EVs per stat or increase the scaling of EVs themselves to avoid low BST shitmons all having fairly samey bulky attacker stat distributions from having to dump excess points into defenses and HP.
Pretty much this. >Boost final evos or single stage mons to a BST of 500 (Cacticurne, Seviper, Zangoose etc.) >Hand out more sensible abilities especially to frailer mons >Fix those damn movesets
Seviper and Zangoose from what i remember have pretty good movesets. i don't think movesets are nearly as big of an issues for a lot of mons as stats and sometimes abilities
>Boost final evos or single stage mons to a BST of 500 (Cacticurne, Seviper, Zangoose etc.)
BST by itself is usually meaningless since Game Freak always finds a way to frick it up.
Gamefreak just needs to give up on tradition and do balance patches like every other game made in the last decade that wants some semblance of balance.
This, what makes a shitmon not a shitmon is access to a good ability and moves. Eviolite Clefairy is a viable pick in VGC specifically cause of it's move pool being perfect for support and drawing fire as well as it's ability protecting the partner further. You wouldn't need to improve the BST for most mons I'd say, just rearrange things to give them a better niche and maybe a good ability, and pray that some meta mon doesn't already do it better.
phys/spec split was a mistake
life orb was a mistake
choice items other than choice band were a mistake
buffing outrage to 120 bp was a mistake
gen 4 was a mistake
I agree except I think all choice item were a mistake
stallgay hands typed both of these posts
Nope, worse, hoenngays.
Hoenngay.
No split sucks because Absol was a dark type mon that favored Physical attacks and that pissed me off as a kid.
No split makes Pokemon feel super fricking limited but gays don't like to admit that Fire Punch being special is stupid.
>But the explosive punch should b-
Then why the frick do they keep giving these special attacking PUNCHES to physical FIGHTING pokemon all the time? Gamefreak is just incompetent.
>But (x) was nerfed after the split
Two pokemon getting fricked over is better than half the dex being fricked over because they didn't design the game around types being all one trait of special and physical.
TL;DR
Gamefreak fricking blows.
>admit that Fire Punch being special is stupid.
elemental punches are stupid as a concept. They should just be fighting type moves that can inflict a status.
>Then why the frick do they keep giving these special attacking PUNCHES to physical FIGHTING pokemon all the time?
...because they are more likely to have arms, will you get mad at Pokemon with mouths getting bitting moves next?
i'd rather the game be about stall than spamming super effective moves. at least stall has more variety than spamming attack moves
If you can’t win my any other means than boring your opponent to capitulation then sure
It was mostly fine, only Outrage was a mistake. Gen 4 heavy offense was mostly fun.
Gen 5 is where it all fell down with them handing out Scald like candy to every non-Ice type Water pokemon, and abilities starting to become more and more bonkers.
>and abilities starting to become more and more bonkers.
Don't worry, they balanced it out by giving starter Pokemon like Meganium and Torterra worthless hidden abilities.
>sinnohfetus, so presumably in his twenties
>still doesn't know how to properly save image files
>phys/spec split was a mistake
No Black person, YOU were a mistake
Wrong
Wrong
Wrong
Wrong
And wrong
Your birth was a mistake
levitate was a mistake
It's bullshit that pokemon that are clearly floating are somehow affected by ground moves, levitate makes the game make sense.
Pokemon that are floating but not levitating are clearly floating too close to the ground.
creativity is dead
>phys/spec split was a mistake
The rest of the post isn't even worth reading when you're wrong right out the gate.
switching was a mistake
it should work as not as two separate move
All that gay shit and hes not going to mention stealth wieners
nah it was a massive improvement you gay c**t!
>Level 77 Oddish
Why are Bulbapedo devs such hackers?
this had super limited distribution for the longest time, making it a TM was a mistake
This, it only became bullshit when they started giving it to fricking everything
Exactly. Same with scald.
Staraptor learning CC was mind blowing but now even a fish can learn it
>fights up close without guarding
isn't that most physical moves? What makes this different?
It lowers your defense and special defense one stage after using it.
You can quickly get some distance from your opponent after doing a karate chop or a high jump kick, but you can't after going ORAORAORA
Close Combat should’ve been 100 BP at most. Focus Punch has been basically worthless ever since.
>bro just make it earthquake but with a downside
Maybe if you actually used direct attacks instead of muh toxic sub leech rocks wisp the defense drops would actually come into play stalltroon
Are you moronic or something? How is Focus Punch a stall move?
I didn's say focus punch was a stall move nor do i know why would would think i implied that.
All i'm saying is CC isn't that busted.
Lol it was because you don’t do anything while charging it up
Earthquake was always overpowered.
Every time you think about how overpowered earthquake is just remember that for some fricking reason Gamefreak decided it was Dig that needed the nerf after gen 1.
Earthquake has an entire type that’s immune to it, an entire ability that’s immune to it, a terrain that completely neuters it, damages your own teammates, and is crippled by burn. It’s fine.
>an entire ability that’s immune to it
Two abilities now, with Earth Eater
Plus Air Balloon
what does the word "entire" even accomplish here? an "entire" ability? as opposed to what, a partial ability?
Don't all the things created to neuter Earthquake prove that is was OP?
>Earthquake has an entire type that’s immune to it
Close Combat doesn't?
>Close Combat too strong, plz nerf T^T
>Hydro Pump/Fire Blast/Thunder/Blizzard? Yes plz ^o^
Those moves were nerfed. They do less damage starting in Gen VI.
>Hydro misfire
>Fire whiff
>Thunder onlyusefulinrainorwithcompoundeyes
>BlizaHAHAHAHAHA Only in gen 1 was this shit useful!
Both Fire Blast and Hydro Pump have their uses over Flamethrower and Surf. Their accuracy is still good enough to where they are worth using when the more reliable option isn't strong enough. Meanwhile you very rarely see Thunder or Blizzard being used outside of Rain or Hail.
None of those moves have 100% accuracy under normal conditions, unlike Close Combat.
But hey, the disingenuous nature of /vp/ strikes again.
A miss is WAY worse than a defense drop when using a fast attacker. Defense drops are literally not a downside if your opponent cannot outspeed. Meanwhile, Dynamic Punch sits at 100 BP with the same PP as Close Combat, 50% accuracy, and a status effect that was gimped a few gens ago. What kind of balancing is that?
did this moron really go through the page's history to pick out a gen 5 image? lmao so fricking desperate
Holy insecure
>DP
lol
Move animations didn't change in Platinum, numbskull. The file used for the thumbnail prior to Gen 5 was deleted
literally who was talking about platinum moron
>moron
keep projecting macaco
if i had to recommend something to you, the m***nova poster, put the actual animation in the bulbapedo image. see you next genwar thread 🙂
>take a screenshot or record my screen
lmao
>no fists shown
Shit edit. Put more effort in your next genwar thread.
Enhancement and difficulty hacks will usually buff shitmons. Whether you agree with the changes is for you to decide.
>Shit edit
>Implying I edited anything
Why would I put in the effort to edit anything if I didn't even want to record my screen? I don't think you know how page revisions on wikis or web archives.
>Put more effort in your next genwar thread.
Competitive is a different subject from gen quality. Superpower but with a negligible drawback was a terrible addition to the game.
You and I both know Bulbapedo would never use that image then and now. Try harder next time.
>bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Close_Combat_(move)&oldid=1748254
Here's your groomer link
>reverted 2 minutes later
Lol, what a homosexual.
We knew about Mega Lucario in 2012? Good to know.
anus-kun...
see
or the web archive for the page.
nobody is going to remember a 2 minute reverted edit except you anus-kun
nobody is going to be this autistic about a screenshot from Gen 4/5 unless they didn't like the game's art direction, cloaca-kun
nah it's funny because you deliberately chose it in a flood of mega lucario pages and you could've just posted the current one. just take the L anus genwar Black person
Close Combat isn't nearly as oppressive in modern gen, so why would I use Gen 9 screenshot for it? If anything, you should be harping on me missing the page with the Gen 4 Staraptor thumbnail because I used the web archive to take my screenshot, but evidently your insecurities prevented you from finding an actual damning contradiction in my statements. Now could you stick a branch up your cloaca, pretty please?
Googling "gen 4 close combat" would've been even faster. But we all make mistakes, Eridanus.
Where's the move's typing, category, PP, BP, and accuracy in that screenshot?
None of that has changed in the main games, everyone knows that shit. You're grasping at straws.
So, just like this homosexual
nitpicking because I used an oldgen screenshot for a move that wasn't introduced after the shift to models? Thanks for not seeing the irony in your statement, but please stop wasting my time, pandanus.
lmao. dude. you can't fricking google. save the seethe for the next genwar thread
>"Um, you shouldn't note the data of the move when discussing it. Why? Because I don't like seeing Gen 5 screenshots!"
why are you like this lol
So the moron made it himself? That's even worse, but it makes sense. It doesn't even show the animation lmao.
>superpower but just better
I always thought this was a bullshit move
This
I can understand shit like Sludge Bomb over Sludge Wave because of the 30% poison but I doubt that any pokemon, who only learn Superpower, will keep this option if Close Combat was in their movepool
Why does this move feel so overpowered but Fighting type feels like shit? Is it the low spdef and not enough speed? Or is it the too many resists and immunity from ghost?
Lack of reliable coverage. Most Fighting types get fighting, normal and maybe dark as level up moves. Throw in the elemental punches - which at this stage have comparatively low power - and that's your lot.
Special attack mega lucario my beloved
Fairy type existing
Good question
It's the ice beam of fighting moves
Gen 4 was the first time PvP in Pokemon was any good
I honestly think that giving Staraptor Close Combat was patient zero for the move. They give it to so many Pokemon these days.
Yeah they made absolutely everything OP after a while, power creep isn't just an issue of minmaxed stats and overtuned abilities, but happens both in move effects and move distribution.
It's crazy how weak the strong options of 20 years ago feel today.
>It's crazy how weak the strong options of 20 years ago feel today.
You say that as if there aren't later gen Pokemon that obnoxiously weak in their debut gens.
it's more like they made very powerful options, but then forgot to make most older pokemon be able to stand up with them.
see: the tons of slow, frail, mixed attackers
ROM hacks are the only way certain Pokemon can get anything decent.
what hacks should i play that take priority in buffing shitmons?
any recommended romhacks or even essential games that buff mons? i'm taking everything i can from all the frickin' romhacks, fangames, etc. to try and make a package that buffs everything without adding too much for cobblemon.
or maybe to use as reference for the eventual BSDP hacks
Never played a ROM hack before so I can't recommend any. May play one eventually.
Radical Red IIRC gave Meganium an overhaul speaking of buffs. Tropius as well.
virtually every difficulty/enhancement romhack you can think of will buff shitmons, but you have to take the buffs in context of their respective games. packaging them all into one doesn't make much sense. like for example, crystal legacy makes dark type physical, so murkrow's and sneasel's buffs will reflect that
Most difficulty hacks and larger essential hacks buff shitmons, but I think mostly they still leave shitmons as shitmons. That said, I think you can't have mons be balanced throughout the game without either extremely throughtful design or adding some way of updating pokemon stats as the game progresses so that a Beedrill you get at level 10 doesn't just completely run over everything with crazy base stats until level 30-40.
You get the equivalent of +1 to a base stat for every 4 EVs invested.
Normally you can have a max of 252 EVs in a stat, equivalent to +63 to your base stat.
Gen 1+2 effectively allowed max EVs in all stats until Gen 3 limited it to 510 to spread between them.
Make those caps variable dependent on BST and you might have something. You could make the difference more visible by using a Legends-style system where the effort level bars go higher on weak species.
>You get the equivalent of +1 to a base stat for every 4 EVs invested.
For every 8.
Having maxed EVs in a stat is like having +31.5 base. Having maxed IVs is like having +15.5 base.
PLA's effort values use different math where high base stats benefit more from effort investment than low ones.
That would work, although you'd have to do it per mon to handle edge cases like Smeargle and likely would have to either adjust the max EVs per stat or increase the scaling of EVs themselves to avoid low BST shitmons all having fairly samey bulky attacker stat distributions from having to dump excess points into defenses and HP.
Arrogant prick
Pretty much this.
>Boost final evos or single stage mons to a BST of 500 (Cacticurne, Seviper, Zangoose etc.)
>Hand out more sensible abilities especially to frailer mons
>Fix those damn movesets
Seviper and Zangoose from what i remember have pretty good movesets. i don't think movesets are nearly as big of an issues for a lot of mons as stats and sometimes abilities
Tell that to serperior
>kock off
>coil
>leech seed
>aqua tail
>defog
>mirror coat
what's wrong with it?
>No Water Pulse
>No Dark Pulse
>Best move set is special
Needs a wider special movepool
>Boost final evos or single stage mons to a BST of 500 (Cacticurne, Seviper, Zangoose etc.)
BST by itself is usually meaningless since Game Freak always finds a way to frick it up.
Gamefreak just needs to give up on tradition and do balance patches like every other game made in the last decade that wants some semblance of balance.
This, what makes a shitmon not a shitmon is access to a good ability and moves. Eviolite Clefairy is a viable pick in VGC specifically cause of it's move pool being perfect for support and drawing fire as well as it's ability protecting the partner further. You wouldn't need to improve the BST for most mons I'd say, just rearrange things to give them a better niche and maybe a good ability, and pray that some meta mon doesn't already do it better.
Why did Scizor get Close Combat
Technician not good enough these days?
Close Combat
>Powerful STAB attack for Fighting types
Superpower
>Widespread coverage option for non-Fighting types
Why cant we live in this world? Instead everyone and their mom gets CC and it somehow has like quadruple the distribution of Superpower
t. snorlax fan
GameFreak introducing the rather balanced Chilling Water only to bring back Scald will never not piss me off.
ok
This move singlehandedly kept steel types in check in Gen 4. EQ was too weak and fire types virtually didn't exist due to autowin rocks.
Every pokemon that got this in gen9 should have gotten.
damn is gamefreak smart