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By the time you watch the Buu Saga you already accepted DBZ for all its flaws and reminisce on its best moments
buu saga was dog shit thow. the saga doubled down on what was already a flawed but watchable series to complete shit.
Buu was a shit villian with regeneration bullshit worse then cell making his fights not fun to watch
story makes no sense. why are there grand kai's and why is dbz universes version of satan literally on earth
New character sucks
goes way overboard with powerlever wank
even my 12 year old boy self who was obcess with DBZ fricking hated the buu saga
Cell more fun to watch than Buu? Cell has no moves of his own, everything came from someone else. Buu has his magic and cartoon physics. Pure shit taste to prefer Cell over Buu.
Cell spends most of his time retreating from Z fighters that I don't understand why people think it's so great. Especially when Buu saga has way better fights than just Piccolo vs 17 and Perfect Cell vs. The World
because up until the Cell games, most of the cast actually plays a part in the story. in the Frieza and Buu saga 90% of the cast does frick all.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>most of the cast actually plays a part in the story >goku nearly dies from cardiac arrest >gohan does fricking nothing >yamcha gets fisted by a old man and sits out >tien nearly dies holding back Cell, jobbed to androids prior >chaotsu does nothing >krillin simped for a girl so hard that it put the world in danger >trucks poorly described his future when in the past, lost his unique sword, and wanted cell to kill him >piccolo jobs, becomes god and threatens he will continue to be evil when the androids are gone, jobs again and was basically tsundere the entire fricking time >vegeta is actually accelerating Cell's plans when he's not jobbing
A lot of this shit is questionable to straight up bad. Trying to juggle all these characters did not work out at the end.
It's all bejitabros, they don't care the arc is dogshit, they got their little gay bombing and their little gay overtones fight with ki-based BDSM gear.
It gave us Super Kinotoden 3
That's some awful garbage people pretend is good too.
If you understand how magic and demons actually really work by studying the occult and religion you would actually realize that the Buu saga is pretty kino and fairly accurate. I'm not saying I prefer it above the previous arcs although I probably prefer it over the saiyan arc.
Majinn's in the arc are all childish but super dangerous demons (jinn = demon) that can snap at any moment. They also seem to defy the established rules of the world. Super Buu even broke through the time chamber with his screaming. This is completely accurate to what real life demons actually are like. Kid Buu being at the time the highest and most strongest being in Dragon Ball and him being a completely vicious little child is actually pretty epic and on point. So Tori real knew his stuff is what I am saying.
>inb4 smart ass remarks from anons calling me a gay or something along those lines
Don't blame me, Toriyama himself is the one who wrote the arc the way it was for a reason and all what I am saying is I believe the man knew a whole lot and you guys perhaps don't know much of anything. A lot of the plot and themes in this arc was actually well done and on point.
Basically. You ever heard those old folk tales? Plenty of them the world over have spirits that can be pacified and even befriended with offerings of food but turn truly foul when angered (brownies, nisse, etc).
It does multiverse timelines perfectly. Once a timeline is doomed, you can't erase it. You can only make a new timeline - which means the original DBZ timeline is filled with instances where the bad guy ends up winning.
The entire cell saga was everyone throwing in the most moronic ways possible. Cell wasn't smart or anything the z fighters just threw him so many bones
They threw even harder in the buu saga. >ssj3 goku deciding not to kill buu because why not >gotenks deciding not to kill buu because why not >ultimate gohan deciding not to kill buu because why not >vegito deciding not to kill buu because why not
>At least the Cell saga didn't butcher Gohan
It did thou he fought with all he had fighting recoome but killing cell? to save the world ugh i don't fight =(
Cellgays whine about the Buu arc having too many pointless characters and villain transformations but have absolutely no issue with the Cell arc having Frieza, King Cold, Androids 19, 20, 16, 17, 18 and then 3 Cell transformations as villains, all of which facilitated by the characters doing the stupidest shit imaginable like Goku not taking his heart medicine and Vegeta allowing Cell to absorb 18. Buu surviving Vegeta's explosion is called an asspull but no one has an issue with Gohan reaching SS2 after watching 16 die even though he never even met him before
>Buu surviving Vegeta's explosion is called an asspull
I've seen way more people refer to the scene where Goku blows Cell's top half off as contrived than Vegeta's Final Explosion.
>and create the worst fight scene in the series with Gotenks.
Shit like this is why I think Cellgays are fake fans. Actual gag fight, the type of stuff Toriyama loves and they hate it.
It would've been better if he stayed dead and his sacrificed mogged Buu so hard he split into his good and evil forms. He gets brought back just to be Goku's b***h.
Sayan saga started with raditz and ended when vegeta first left earth. Namek started when everyone left earth and ended after everyone was revived. Cell saga started with Trunks coming back into time and killed Mecha Frieza and ended when Gohan and Goku killed Cell. Buu started the first episode of the timeskip and... well its pretty objective when that ended.
didn't toriyama literally have a mental break down during its development? I read somewhere that he was is in a pretty bad way due to home issues and stuff but he had deadlines and trucked through it.
Toriyama had written the series chapter to chapter for most of its entire run. He had been writing in natural conclusions for the franchise since early dragon ball.
not true at all, and all the people who keep repeating this shit have no source for it. toriyama wrote dragon ball consistently until he just decided to stop at buu. there was never an intention to end it at freiza or cell
every gay district in any western city is always full of guys on steroids and going to the gym everyday though. it's the same in places like brazil too.
He wanted Z to be Gohan's story and the Buu saga was supposed to be the climax of Gohan's coming of age. But his editor kept forcing Goku back, so Toriyama just kind of gave up and that's why the arc drops off a cliff as soon as Gohan jobs. There's a reason why DBZ ends with Goku being disappointed with his friends/family and entrusting the future of the planet to some random niglet. Toriyama was bitter as frick.
>Goku retires at the end of the Cell Saga >Vegeta reaches the end of his character development and sacrifices himself >a few episodes later... >Goku/Vegeta fan service out of nowhere
I get it that you're a Goku mark, but be honest with yourself
Goku didn't retire, he ditched the earth to go have fun in heaven. Upon returning he realized he should and wants to be a father instead. >Vegeta reaches the end of his character development and sacrifices himself
What? He lived! >Goku/Vegeta fan service
They fricked up and released buu and spent the entire rest of the saga trying to undo their own mess. It's made clear again and again that neither one of them are capable of doing it alone, and ultimately they are only able to prevail through the combined efforts of nearly every character in the show.
brutal. she literally got the fight beaten out of her. videl could have bounced back and continued on and maybe even won the next tournament. I guess she just couldn't comeback from getting spop'd mentally.
No, he was just fricking around with the story because he was bored. He kept trying new things, deciding it shouldn't end like that, and moving on to something else, until a gag character makes the villain fight himself and gives Goku the power to end it. It's peak Toriyama.
He wanted Z to be Gohan's story and the Buu saga was supposed to be the climax of Gohan's coming of age. But his editor kept forcing Goku back, so Toriyama just kind of gave up and that's why the arc drops off a cliff as soon as Gohan jobs. There's a reason why DBZ ends with Goku being disappointed with his friends/family and entrusting the future of the planet to some random niglet. Toriyama was bitter as frick.
I know that quote of Toriyama saying the Buu saga made him never want to draw a battle manga again is going around but after experiencing it again via the Ganker read along, I'm pretty sure Senileyama is mixing up Cell and Buu. Buu starts leaning hard into gags again and then you have shit like Buu vs Gotenks which you can't even really call a fight, it's more like a comedy routine. Really feels like after the heavy focus on nothing but fights and editor frickery that happened with Cell, he decided that he was done and wanted to go back to his gag manga roots. It's the most comedic the series had ever been after the Red Ribbon arc.
Why do people continue to make this shit up with Toriyama and Dragonball? He brought Goku back because he wanted to. It's almost as annoying as saying Dragonball was supposed to end with Frieza. None of that shit is true.
>vegeta has an obvious redemption moment and the series should have ended at that exact point >toriyama immediately make it's another jobbing
frick dbz
Cell’s return was the most BS moment I’ve ever seen in a Shonen manga >HAHA! I’M NOT DEAD I’M ACTUALLY ALIVE!!! >THERE’S ACTUALLY A CLUSTER IN MY HEAD THAT IF IT DOESN’T GET DESTROYED I’M GOOD!!! >ALSO MY CELLS REMEMBERED MY PERFECT FORM SO I’M PERFECT AGAIN!!! >ALSO I GOT A ZENKAI BOOST SO NOW I’M SSJ2 LEVEL!!! >ALSO I LEARNED HOW TO INSTANT TRANSMISSION BECAUSE FRICK YOU!!!
Like if this was posted nowadays??? Dragon Ball would’ve been mocked to death for it
What was the precedent because Goku burnt his fricking head off right before hand.
Toriyama even does the same fricking jab with Piccolo even though he never demonstrated such healing before hand in the entire series.
That's not the point Black person. The only reason Buu died then is because the plot required it. If they wanted it to keep going, Buu would've survived it.
Vegeta's redemption literally happened on screen with 100% validity when the dragonballs were used to revive all good people and Vegeta got included. Can't get any more redeemed than that.
I'll be honest, the DBZA Buu Bits did not appeal to me. It had some good jokes but thete was too much reliance on callbacks. >Tumblr Videl
Thanks I hate it
So? Its just a parody, who cares if toei hates them?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Well the problem was that Toei kept trying to kill their channel and then they'd have to fight it and then Toei would try to kill their channel again. Between that and just struggling to come up with new jokes the team just got burned out and decided not to do it anymore. It kind of shows with the Buu Bits. Gohan allowing Videl to sit on his face is funny in motion but that was already a meme for years before they voiced it. Gotenks and Videl bickering over pronouns is a nothing joke. I will say that Saiyaman adventures was cool but that's just because the raw material they had to work with was already good. In the end they quit on a good spot
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Because Toei has actively been working against them. They were greylisted for a while after the whole Cell Games reenactment thing.
>thinks he should be redeemed after killing multiple humans at the tournament, setting free a monster who causes the extinction of the human race, all for “MUH PRIDE!”
Nah, he doesn’t deserve it there and Toriyama knew that so he made Buu come back unharmed
The ACTUAL redemption was helping during the Final Fight
you'd have to be genuinely moronic to think this was a good place to end the entire series (that is centred mostly around goku).
also this is barely a redemption considering the shit vegeta has done
people need to respect Vegeta more, this moronic as frick "jobber" meme when he's killed more people than Goku is not funny, the dude also helped finish off both Cell and Buu by distracting them yet nobody seems to remember that part. Shounentards learning from WWEhomosexuals was the worst thing to ever happen around here
which is what Gohan does as well, their power-ups put them higher than their respective current level Cell to the point they got wienery and he comes back stronger. I will never get why morons like you somehow conflict characters making mistakes (which are in line with who they are) with poor character writing.
>when he's killed more people than Goku
That's because Goku doesn't kill. I mean, he's the one who defeated Burter and Recoom and Vegeta just kill stealed.
It had its moments >Gave us the most kino looking SS form >Gave us the kino that is Majin Vegeta vs Goku >Gave Schlommel 4 entire minutes of pain torment (Maybe more behind the scenes)
Yeah, i don't get it, i remember i loved GT because it was actually entertaining but hated the new one (was it super?) because it just felt like "generic anime n° 57890" and the transformations were "lol neon hair dye", while everyone i talked to in high school was loving the new one because nu dragonball cul and hated GT because muh noncanon/strange/not dbz
I like certain concepts in Super. The idea of a rogue god deciding to cast judgement onto hyper violent mortals who don't listen to them and can end up threatening the universe is an interesting concept that bursts into flames the moment they decided to elaborate on it.
For GT I think the concepts are more interesting when they take from Z and expand on it. Like yeah if the Tuffles who shared a planet with the Saiyans were still around, they wouldn't be satisfied hanging out with quirky ole Goku and Vegeta. They'd fricking hate them. The Saiyans genocided their entire fricking race and survived their own genocide stronger than ever. And Goku's Super Saiyan 4 isn't a heroic recolor, it doubles down on the fact that yes, Saiyans are inherently violent by nature and that's not pretty. The only reason we like it it's because Goku is on our side. Same deal with the DragonBalls. It's a meme that problems don't exist in DB's universe because you can always just wish them away. Well what if there were a reason why you shouldn't do that? Because Elder Kai brings it up, there's a reason why the Dragonballs scatter after being used. Normally it'd be impossible for negative energy to be built up because of how difficult the DragonBalls used to be to find. But thanks to Bulma the DragonBalls are used literally every year. And not even for anything important, just for stupid shit like Goku getting a present for his wife or Bulma giving herself a bigger ass. It had to bite them eventually and that's a cool concept for an arc.
I feel like GT looks way better than Super.
GT, being a late 90's series, still has that iconic grit in its artstyle. No idea if it was because it was cel animation, usage of film or the artstyle itself demanded it, but it also went really good with its mostly desaturated color pallette. Something about that gloomy look just feels comfy and nostalgic And i didn't even know about dragon ball until like 2016 if we don't count popular memes like OVER9000 and kamehameha for it to feel like that
Super is too fricking bright and clean. While the artstyle still tries to keep Toriyamas' proportions and faces, it still goes way too close to the "modern mass produced anime" full of flashes, bright colors, overly clean lines and cookie cutter characters territory that really feels bland as shit.
Except for Super Broly movie and Daima trailer. Those two felt like a breath of an entire planet of fresh air and i hope Daima actually delivers more eye candy than just its trailer.
Being better than Super isn't the high mark you think it is. GT is still absolutely fricking terrible and somehow only a little less ridiculous than Super.
Pan ruined GT worse than Gohan shitters ruined DragonBall as a whole.
>GT is still absolutely fricking terrible and somehow only a little less ridiculous than Super. Pan ruined GT worse than Gohan shitters ruined DragonBall as a whole.
Black person i am explicitly talking about the artstyle and visuals, not the fricking story.
I'm starting to get the feeling GT-haters are just casuals that are repulsed by e-girlta. Every single complaint I've seen boils down to hating Pan's fanservice moments
There's also the complete lack of direction, the show abandoning the premise of being worse DB and pivoted into worse DBZ. The villains are all forgettable, Goku is a massive screen hog and anyone not named Goku or Vegeta gets done dirty, the writing in general is really fricking bad.
And Pan isn't attractive, so you can't even call anything she does fan service. She's just an annoying brat.
3 weeks ago
Boco
The Shadow Dragons were a cool concept at least.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
The first arc of GT is better than post-Cell DBZ and Super, and Pan is super cute. She's a cuter Bulma without being dead weight. If you don't want to kiss her on the lips you are a queer
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
no, it isn't, pedophile. even then the planet-hopping shit is so segmented you can't even call it "an arc" as certain planets have their own mini-arcs
For the longest time anime/manga gays have had this autistic hang up on what's canon vs what isn't. Anything that wasn't entirely by the original author was deemed to be shit, not matter what merits it had. It was most rampant in the late 00s and 10s where all anyone had to say about series like GT, FMA 2003 or Hellsing 2001 were "ugh the author didn't work on this? it's automatically shit".
It was when book adaptations and the like was being released and was never faithful to anything. I do agree that FMA 2003 is superior to the manga and Brotherhood.
To be fair, FMA 03 was abject shit compared to the manga and brotherhood mainly because everything that was being set up in the start was abandoned the Dante twist and the homunculi weakness didn't make a lick of sense since their components would be in the homunculi in the first place.
>and hated GT because muh noncanon/strange/not dbz
Here's the thing, no one hated it for those reasons, they hated it because it takes a massive dump on everything that came before, like, what was the point in cell if 17 was supposed to be stronger than him anyway?
Then there's the animation with GT having the worst animation in dragonball history at the time and currently only being rivalled by heroes.
I don’t understand why GT has bad animation when Buu had the best animation in the whole series and it was pretty much the same production team wasn’t it????
>Having the audacity to deage Goku when it almost killed Dragon Ball with SHIT tour
[...] >Its not canon because I don't like
KWAB.
>is a series where we are meant to move forward >Super, his favorite garbage series, first two arcs are retellings >the first movie brings back Broly >the second movie brings back RR Army and Cell >the movie prior to SHITper brought back Freeza
Incredible progress forward…
>I don’t understand why GT has bad animation when Buu had the best animation in the whole series and it was pretty much the same production team wasn’t it
Because it was designed to keep the cash cow going rather than to be a quality product not to mention since there was no manga, much like the super anime, they had no reference material for what it should be.
how the FRICK did Toei agree on funding Daima? This little snipper alone looks prettier than the entirety of frickig Super, and therefore probably 10x more expensive than outsourcing it to chinks or whatever the frick super did.
No, seriously, is the rest of it going to be looking like shit worse than super or what? What's the technical-economical reason of such jump? I'm certain Toei didn't suddenly go "You know we should make it actually quality again this time hehe" with no reason.
Super was coming off of the fairly well received movies and had the hype of a new, Toriyama made series.
Daima is basically the GT but because Super's reception was mixed they have to try.
it's a web/short series like Sand Land, stop spamming this autistic shit about it being better than the "entirety" of Super. Fricking Girls Band Cry has better animation than the whole of dragon ball going by this moronic logic
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Stoppu sayian dat grrrreat chinakong animatos rike shittu, prease!
Yeah there are several legitimate reasons to hate GT, it's weird how history is currently being rewritten to make it seem like GT detractors were unreasonable.
>sent Piccolo to hell for eternity >GT mogging anything
As a kid I used to go to Dragon Ball fansites of all kinds, international or otherwise reading about things like Super Saiyan 4 and Gohan having a child. When GT finally became a thing in the states it was probably the first time in my life I felt utterly disappointed by literal years of anticipation. The fight choreography was garbage, every character with Saiyan blood outside Goku is beyond useless, SSJ4 is beyond moronic and does NOTHING despite how supposedly powerful it is, and it doomed Piccolo to an eternity in hell for no fricking reason other than trying to make him pseudo-Kami... of hell. There wasn't a single GT arc I found enjoyment in and anything remotely interesting gets weighed down by bad writing, pacing and overall storytelling.
SSJ4 looks cool on paper and that's it. I like that GT actually brought back Oozaru and tails, and I like the broad strokes for the negative-energy dragonball stuff as repercussions, but boy does it all just fricking suck really badly.
They cucked us out of Buu twice >Hurr durr too stupid to pass a written test for some reason. >Hurr durr he trained too hard and fell asleep
I will never not be mad.
They couldve written buu off in a better way. >the Grand Minister homosexual guy walks up to the main dbs cast and says >"after reviewing the universe 7 participants, Lord zeno has decided that buu is too strong and would trivialize most of the tournament, making it boring, so i ask that buu retires as soon as possible."
Or hell just having him fight. Both tournaments had ringout rules. Ya ya whatever, he's magic, he's immortal, he woukd just turn everyone into candy. You can still have him job to one of the big strong guys. He get's blown to bits, regenerates, then kicks the bad guys ass. He still loses on a technicality as one of his blobs lands outside the ring.
Plus he's vulnerable to magic. Babidi was a legitimate threat to him, and Buu only got the upper hand by tricking him and getting within inches before Babidi even realized he was in actual danger.
Toyo was writing the manga which, at the time, was a loose adaptation of the anime, rather than the other way around. He had nothing to do with Toei's staff writing the anime. (That said, how much toriyama was involved is unclear)
There's nothing interesting about Jiren as a character though. He's just strong for the sake of being a strong thing to knock down. It's like Dead Fantasy but dragged out for hours
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yep! You're right again Anon!
He's totally flat and has no nuance at all!
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>He's totally flat and has no nuance at all!
Glad you finally understood, otherwise you would've had to explain those nuances to me.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Well he is or at the very least his motivations are presented in a lazy way. Like when he first fights Goku he says he's, and I'm paraphrasing, searching for something beyond strength. We'll okay that was very nebulous. Wanna elaborate on that? Well no he never does. Instead we get a backstory dump in the last few episodes of the series. And not even a good one, it's just batman's backstory. Why even bother introducing El Hermano knowing full well we're never going to his universe? Why'd he even bother joining the Pride Troopers if he doesn't want to be bothered with them and thinks the concept of teamwork is an irritant? I only bring that up because Toppo was right there and was a far, FAR more interesting character. Hell I'd argue that fricking Bergamo is a more interesting character. Do you remember Bergamo? Of course you don't because he's just a jobber meant to make Goku look cool and I still think he had more going on than Jiren
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's like they were too scared to do anything without Toriyama's express approval, and his only notes for the character were "He's the strongest."
Not balls deep but it has some unique qualities not found in other fighting games.
It's all bejitabros, they don't care the arc is dogshit, they got their little gay bombing and their little gay overtones fight with ki-based BDSM gear.
[...]
That's some awful garbage people pretend is good too.
It's all bejitabros, they don't care the arc is dogshit, they got their little gay bombing and their little gay overtones fight with ki-based BDSM gear.
[...]
That's some awful garbage people pretend is good too.
>That's some awful garbage people pretend is good too
Nah butoden 2 and 3 are pretty fun.
i watched dbz when I was in middle school all the time and I dont remember any coherent arcs and im not sure how anyone else does either. The episodes were almost always aired out of order according to whatever the frick some dipshit on cartoon network thought the popular episodes would be to get more eyes on the ads. I vaguely remember freiza, cell, and the androids.
Why would you watch this later after you arent a kid. Is there any worthwhile thought provoking anything or kino plotlines? No, its a cartoon where they train to beat up a bad guy and up their power level and then a new bad guy appears. Its time to move on
>he episodes were almost always aired out of order according to whatever the frick some dipshit on cartoon network thought the popular episodes would be to get more eyes on the ads
not true. it would cycle over and over and OVER AND OVER until the homosexuals finally translated the rest of the namek saga
Because Brian Drummond is a naturally amazing voice actor. It took Christopher Sabat almost 30 years to finally nail a decent Vegeta and the tragedy of him getting good during Super is Super kind of fricking sucks as a whole.
Every channel i've ever watched an animated series on was always in the format of >Early evening: First they rerun the last episode, then they air the next, new one >Early morning: Rerun of yesterday's evening >Series ends: Either gets taken off air, or runs from the beginning again at the same time (rarely), during a different bracket, or swaps back and forth with other series
I have no fricking idea how can any channel do something else than that. Even in a year i had to spend in a LITERAL third world country it still followed the same schedule. What kind of shithole you need to live in to have random order?
In Australia, it was a morning show before school. Episodes were in order.
Fricking 9/11 happened around the time Gohan went SS2 and I hated the terrorists more for making me not get an episode and instead be stuck with that boring news footage all day long.
>and drags for too long.
It's funny you can say this when you're talking about Buu saga. If you're talking about the anime, it was the most padded out saga out of them all. They were getting to the point where they were adapting a single chapter per episode. I literally hated Buu as a kid because it felt way too long and dragged out.
Why is the super anime still stuck at the end of tournament of power conclusion? I keep hearing a ton of shit has happened after that in the manga?
what the literal frick are they fricking waiting for
They let up what little tard wrangling Toyotaro was under and he went and made unfiltered complete garbage, now Toei is trying to sweep it under the rug.
People take dragon ball story way too seriously. Characters like vegeta are really silly but so determined in that Kaiba kind of way that it makes the show very fun to watch. Its not something you should think of that hard, just like how you don't think that much when Kaiba is using a satellite like a ballistic missile over a card game
I know that quote of Toriyama saying the Buu saga made him never want to draw a battle manga again is going around but after experiencing it again via the Ganker read along, I'm pretty sure Senileyama is mixing up Cell and Buu. Buu starts leaning hard into gags again and then you have shit like Buu vs Gotenks which you can't even really call a fight, it's more like a comedy routine. Really feels like after the heavy focus on nothing but fights and editor frickery that happened with Cell, he decided that he was done and wanted to go back to his gag manga roots. It's the most comedic the series had ever been after the Red Ribbon arc.
I don't know about the manga but the anime did a good job of making buu a scary moron, like chris chan fricking his mother kind of goofy and discomfort
kid and teen arc are kino
saiyans and furiza arc were awesome
androids were overpowered but pretty cool
cell was just dude with stolen powers
buu was just dude with stolen powers again
super was a fricking mistake
except for the super broly movie, that was kino
The buu saga has some bad pacing, but is otherwise extremely well written. People who say that it's the worst in the series are just morons who self inserted as Gohan during the cell games and were mad that he wasn't the unqualified star of the buu saga. It's worth noting that the worst part of DBZ by far was everything from just after cell's appearance through the end of the cell games. Chapter after chapter of characters being fricking moronic for no reason and brazen plot contrivances. Even the fights were bad, being a series of one sided beat downs with a whopping 2 exceptions (17 vs Piccolo and Goku vs perfect cell)
>extremely well written
No. There are good elements but there is some extraordinarily bad writing in there that is done to enable fanservice rather than telling even what could be called a coherent story
>Gohan has his entire potential unleashed >by that point he's exponentially faster in both movement and reactions than anyone else at that point. Transformations aren't even a requirement anymore >Series has to continue for another 1/3 of its length because suddenly he can't react fast enough to catch an earring
>This entire saga is horribly written because my favorite character messed something up and didn't get to save the day
Did you miss the part where he was beaten half to death at the time
Nowhere did I say or imply my favorite character was Gohan. Also even if Gohan were at a quarter of his normal strength that would still make him more than capable of catching an earring. To put it in perspective, even if you nerfed Gohan's total available power to the same level of power as Goku when he was a Super Saiyan on Namek, and then nerfed that down to a quarter of that number. That would still give him a PL 37.5 million. That's 70 times more powerful than Frieza was when he exploded Vegeta with a finger. Frieza was so powerful then that he was considered a god to his men and an actual god just wouldn't deal with him. There's no way to make that earring scene work without infecting a character with the stupid just to create an avenue for Goku to do more cool shit.
>who self inserted as Gohan
Or people who correctly fricking assumed that goku being dead for good and Gohan being the main protagonist meant that gohan would be the one to win the day and fulfill his narrative role
Stop projecting your goku lust onto others
Cell is the most overrated arc by far, frick off and frick Gohan. Everything people complain about with Buu can be traced to Cell where the issues were often more egregious
Japan liked the original DB over Z. Thats why they're so hyped for Daima. And also why Toriyama was more enthusiastic about making it than anything in the last 15 years.
Toriyama is always excited when he gets to shit on Goku/Vegita fans. I hope the metaphor of grown up characters being stuck in the body of kids isn't lost on people.
Toriyama didn't want to make it.
He liked the idea of Gohan taking over his dad's legacy and Goku dying as a good end for DragonBall.
Fricking weebs wouldn't let him rest, so he shat out Buu saga. Then stopped claiming his work with Dragonball was done.
The the USA made a live action abortion of his work and he started making DB Super JUST so people would focus on canon stuff again and to keep fricktards from shutting up his legacy.
Now that he is dead, I propose doing a live-action Netflix series, making all the Z fighters women, and they gain power by defying the patriarchy and being lesbians. Then slap a device around Toriyama's coffin that turns his grave spinning into a power source.
After picking up some DB volumes, I can see why. The red ribbon saga alongside the Uranai Baba one are really fun to re-read and they don’t drag out like the Buu saga in Z. Also, there’s a certain charm to Goku’s character as a kid that makes you want to see him in more adventures like those.
Toriyama didn't want to make it.
He liked the idea of Gohan taking over his dad's legacy and Goku dying as a good end for DragonBall.
Fricking weebs wouldn't let him rest, so he shat out Buu saga. Then stopped claiming his work with Dragonball was done.
The the USA made a live action abortion of his work and he started making DB Super JUST so people would focus on canon stuff again and to keep fricktards from shutting up his legacy.
Now that he is dead, I propose doing a live-action Netflix series, making all the Z fighters women, and they gain power by defying the patriarchy and being lesbians. Then slap a device around Toriyama's coffin that turns his grave spinning into a power source.
Wrong. Toriyama dropped Gohan as the protagonist because he realized it was a stupid decision. Gohan is a pussy b***h, he's not made for fighting like Goku, it was his own choice to bring Goku back
People who think gohan shouldve been the protagonist after Cell clearly havent seen/read DBZ or havent seen/read in a long time. Its obvious that gohan Fricking hates fighting and wants to become a scholar. Goku kept trying to pressure gohan to be his successsor but gohan clearly just didnt like it, its spelt out clearly during the fight with cell when Goku wanted cell to have a fair advantage (goku gave cell a senzu bean)
>Its obvious that gohan Fricking hates fighting
Made up just for the cell fight, he's been fine with it before. And the entire point of the cell fight was to show how he's accepted that role as defender of earth anyways. That's literally the point of 16 dying, the childhood innocence is gone now and it's time to accept that part of your life.
>And the entire point of the cell fight was to show how he's accepted that role as defender of earth anyways.
dude rage boosts are litterally his character. he didnt accept shit, he just got assblasted because cell got his blue cell babies to bully the other cast.
>“There are some things I can’t say but one thing I can tell you is [in] this production Akira Toriyama has been deeply involved beyond his usual capacity overseeing the original work, story, character design, and more. Additionally, [Toriyama] has planned entirely new episodes for the storyline so please look forward to the start of the series.” >The Dragon Ball creator is said to have “meticulously” crafted new designs for familiar characters, while also aiding in the creation of new vehicle and monster designs. As pointed out by Popverse, Toriyama has largely taken a hands-off approach when it comes to the anime series since 1995. For whatever reason, he’s all in on Dragon Ball Daima, though, making the upcoming project the spinoff series he’s been most involved with in nearly 30 years. So, while baby versions of Goku and Vegeta might be off-putting at first, it helps to know Toriyama has some plans in mind. We’ll have a better idea of how it will all play out when the show premieres later next year.
I actually got around to watching the Buu arc fairly recently because I had never saw it in its entirety before. I've known the jist of it from DBZ video games, but I never actually saw how it all went. It's really is bad.
TL;DR: It's a constant escalation of power where Buu gets blown up by the current strongest hero and then regenerates himself and either wins by war of attrition or absorbs somebody at a key moment, this repeats several times. In between, there are god awful training build-ups with bad payoffs. Gohan was only stronger than Buu for ONE episode before Buu absorbs Gotenks and Piccolo and proceeds to frick Gohan up.
it's okay up until Gohan gets his ass kicked just so Goku can come back and be the flanderized protagonist of the franchise again. it was all downhill from there. it had some great moments like seeing Gohan in school and trying to act as a father figure to Goten and Vegeta's arc was also excellent.
I enjoyed the Buu arc because of how comedic it was, while actually enjoying the more sentimental stuff with Buu and Satan.
Then Ultimate Gohan arrives and then I was just laughing at how bad he's getting his ass kicked in a rather serious narrative tone.
I never watched any of the Dragon Ball movies before Toriyama died. Decided to watch all of them in order. Bojack Unbound is the biggest piece of dogshit I've seen come from this series. Even Granolah and Baby were better
Fusion Reborn was also pretty shit, but better than Bio-Broly and Bojack
bojack is one of the worst things the series ever made it's literally just cell games but worse in every regard. Can't understand where anyone gets off defending this shit.
Agreed, I had a DBZ themed birthday party in 4th grade, considered Future Trunks to be my personal physical ideal, and SSJ2 edge-lord Gohan to be my spirit animal, but I dropped that shit so hard in favor of Yu Yu Hakusho once the Buu saga started and then dropped YYH during the Dark Tournament in favor of Eiken
The only thing Buu saga proved is that Toriyama needed a strict editor to make Dragon Ball any kind of success. Super proved it beyond a shadow of doubt because it's massively moronic and is done without oversight.
Toriyama only wrote rough outlines for Super, Toyotaro and Toei fricked up the details. His heaviest involvement was in Broly and Super Hero, which were leagues better than the rest of Super.
>His heaviest involvement was in Broly and Super Hero
It shows because Super Broly forgot that the Earth Dragon Balls can grant more than a single wish and Super Hero literally just retreaded story beats already done (e.g. Red Ribbon revenge plan, Gohan gets his groove back). I could even get into nitpicky details like the joke about using the Dragon Balls to increase someone's height he used for Frieza in Broly is the EXACT SAME JOKE that was used for Commander Red way back when Goku was a kid.
>in Super
They've been granting 3 since cell you moronic secondary, krillin specifically asks him to make shenron grant 3, Piccolo then asks for mass revival and then this
Buu Saga gave us >SSJ3 Goku >Majin Vegeta >SSJ3 Gotenks >Ultimate Gohan >Vegito
So frick you, it's great, even though the story can be all over the place at times.
The fetishization of Gohan's "ultimate" power up shows how fricking shallow fans of the series are. It was as hollow and unearned as Krillin getting powered up by Guru. He didn't grow, he didn't learn anything, he didn't even admit any mistakes, he just got made super fricking strong out of nowhere so he could continue participating in the plot. Frankly, why SHOULD a character like that deserve to finish the story on his own?
>hollow and unearned
He's the only one that took Majin Buu seriously as a threat and aided Shin's plan even when he was outclassed >B-BUT HE TOYED WITH BUU WHEN IT MATTERED
He didn't, that fight was padded out in the anime, in the manga it's a couple of panels and when Gohan goes to finish off Buu he absorbs Gotenks, Buu outsmarts the kids goading them into fusing against Piccolo's wishes, not outsmarting Gohan as everyone always loves to point out
Goku would be the happiest man alive if Frieza became his wife. Everyday would be exciting. Vegeta is boring, he's far too civilized. Goku is the kinda guy who'd want to casually exchange friendly blows with someone.
No. Those are just shallow words. Goku doesn't get mad or fired up over namecalling. I think Goku would be into sex if he got to wrestle for it. Getting to stick his dick into Frieza's orifice would be the pay off for a difficult battle, he'd be conditioned to love it. The few times he fricked Chichi, he had to hold back all of his power. There was nothing in it for him and he could never frick to his fullest. Frieza could withstand being squeezed and pushed hard and deeply into a mating press.
the king piccolo arc is just a drawn out, worse version of the tao pai pai part of the red ribbon army arc
it follows the exact same structure without anything that made the tao pai pai stuff intriguing
I never understood Tenkaichi games.
Not only the "What if" branches are usually shallow as frick, i could never understand the gameplay either. Granted, i played only Another road on PSP, but judging how similar are the rest of the games - i still don't understand how the frick do you play it.
Can someone explain to me the appeal? It's not like it's the only DB fighting game in existence.
It started well with the Great Saiyaman, sightly declined with the tournament, peaked with Maijin vegana, declined again until SSJ3 Goku where it began to plummet.
Reminder that Toppo's character personality is what Toei wanted Jiren to be but Toriyama had a sperg out over it until it changed so we got a "my power is maximum" LSSJ Broly clone instead.
You know what's funny? Toppo got way more than I expected from a character in Super. When he's first presented it all JUSTICE but when we learn the stakes of the Tournament of Power we can see how it affects him. He goes home and hypes his team up but personally he's so stressed out that he needs to drink his alcohol sphere things. We learn he's a candidate to be a god of destruction but he doesn't take it. Because he knows that well separate him from the Pride Troopers which he doesn't want to do. Because he values his team. And he only bites the bullet in a moment of extreme desperation since losing here means losing everything. And even though he's way more powerful, it's still presented as a failure for him. Because he had to throw away his pride in order to win. Seriously why WASN'T Toppo the final boss of the Tournament of Power? He had everything going for him.
>Seriously why WASN'T Toppo the final boss of the Tournament of Power? He had everything going for him.
Because Toppo wasn't a real character in Toriyama's napkin drafts and wasn't slated to be the final boss. Everything, and I do mean everything, you see of Toppo's character is either Toei's or Toyotaro's attempts to give him one.
>And even though he's way more powerful, it's still presented as a failure for him. Because he had to throw away his pride in order to win
I swear Vegeta went through this same fricking shit in Z except it was a GOOD thing that he threw away his pride in order to protect people. Why is it that when Toppo does it its bad when it was the literal exact same thing Vegeta did?
Vegeta threw away his pride the day he accepted Babadi's mark. Yes I know we all love that A SAIYAN KEEPS HIS PRIDE thing but seriously he tried to throw away his family in the name of going back to where he was. Prince of all Saiyans restoring his people, finally not a slave to anyone anymore, and he thinks he's fallen off. Even Goku listens to what he has to say and calls him a fricking liar. First he implies it and then he tells him to his face. Vegeta claims to have got his family as a means to an end
>Well Goku fought for his family and it made him stronger so if I make a family then it'll be me stronger too
And maybe it started that way. But at the end of the day Bulma and Trunks are not a means to an end. He loves his family. The only thing he did with his temper tantrum is hurt them. It might sound like I'm shitting on Vegeta but I'm really not because this had to happen eventually. He's a violent man who came from a violent upbringing and he had to confront it eventually. But as much as everyone fricking loves Majin Vegeta, Majin Vegeta was rock bottom for him. And Toppo doing the same thing probably hit a sore spot for him.
Toppo is proud of his friends and defending peace
Vegeta was proud of being a mongoloid savage that destroyed entire planets worth of innocents for petty cash
the manga version of jiren is actually somewhat interesting but the jirenbros would have a meltdown if you imply that the manga did anything better than their religion
>Thoughts on the last canon piece of dragon ball media?
If Super is any indication Daima will probably be awful. One can only hope that once Toriyama died that Toei desperately scrambled to fix his nonsensical story ideas.
>all the build up for fat Buu to appear >Goku vs Vegeta >Majin Vegeta sacrifice >Goku going ssj3 first time >Gotenks shenanigans >Ultimate Gohan (you moron) >Super Vegito >Evil Buu, Super Buu, Buutenks, Buuhan >Hercule saving the day
Alone it was fun in a "turn your brain off way". It just invalidates much of what DBZ had set up tonally and firmly established itself as a franchise that doesn't care at all about respecting the character development or story for anyone barring Hercule.
True Dragon Ball is Gotenks fighting Buu with moronic slapstick gags, fake Dragon Ball is Gohan fighting Cell with schizo techno-rock music blaring and switching between 5 different songs in the span of 30 seconds. This is what global audiences are too cowardly to realize because they never even bothered with pre-Z Dragon Ball and don't see how Buu is a proper continuation and conclusion of the manga's roots
>tying up loose ends and passing of the torch is worse than untying and unpassing the torch
Buu saga is worse because of the Cell saga's themes and ending. Going back on every single thing the previous arc did and immediately reestablishing the status quo that was shown to be problematic before is very bad writing.
No one hates Dragonball more than Dragonball fans >NOO why is the main character getting all the focus? >NOOO how come the irrelevant human characters dont get more screen time?! >NOOO Dragonball should have ended with king Piccolo!! >NOO it should have ended with Frieza! >NOOO it should have ended with Cell!!! >NOOO GT sucks! >NOO Super sucks!! >NOOO why isn't Gohan the main character??? >NOOO why can’t Vegeta save the day??!
And yet you all still watch.
>NOO why is the main character getting all the focus? >NOOO how come the irrelevant human characters dont get more screen time?!
Relevant criticism and also one of the reasons why Saiyans/Namek is the greatest part since secondary characters contribute a lot.
>NOOO GT sucks! >NOO Super sucks!!
Also very reasonable.
Every single bit of this is the prime example of every bad faith retort to the criticism about DragonBall
>NOO why is the main character getting all the focus?
The actual problem is why is the main character exclusively getting the focus. As the series progresses the supporting cast gets to contribute less and less and their stories for all intents and purposes have stopped
>NOOO how come the irrelevant human characters dont get more screen time?!
Because they keep being brought back into the proceedings just to do nothing. Krillin has quit martial arts. Twice. If his story is over then that's fine. But don't say Tien's story is okay then bring him back just to be punched in the face and embarrassed and then put him back in his box. It's a slap in the face for everyone who grew to like that character and expect him to do something.
>NOO it should have ended with Frieza! >NOOO it should have ended with Cell!!! >NOOO GT sucks! >NOO Super sucks!!
These all fall under the same problem obviously the problem shared is that later stories don't have the same heart that previous ones did. You don't see people saying that it should've stopped with the Namek saga.
>NOOO why isn't Gohan the main character???
Because the Cell saga ended with him taking Goku's mantle after Goku said he plan was to give Gohan his mantle. You'd think we could take the series at its word and expect future installments to follow up on that otherwise why say it at all?
>NOOO why can’t Vegeta save the day??!
Because Vegeta is the dueteragonist and you'd expect his accomplishments to be on par with the protagonist. And yet Vegeta exists to lose to make Goku look better
Toriyama doesn't put thought into these things. His mindset is just "Goku is the hero, he always wins! He's the main character, he always needs to save the day." That's as deep as it goes
Well there was a period of time where he did put thought into those things. You know who was the MVP of the Saiyan Saga? Fricking Yajirobe. Vegeta functionally won his fight against Goku and Krillin and Gohan couldn't hope to win. But fat ass Yajirobe made the critical save that made defeating Vegeta possible. And hell while I'm at it the mission on Namek was primarily completed by Krillin, Gohan, and Vegeta. Namek was a legit 3 way race to get the DragonBalls and Krillin was there to revive Piccolo to restore Earth's DragonBalls. Which he did. Goku was mostly there as a beater to fight Frieza and enable everyone's escape. Not discounting Goku in that fight, that fight is all anyone remembers of Namek. But it wasn't just him doing everything. Vegeta going Rambo on Namek was fricking cool and probably what sold everyone on Vegeta being a secondary main character.
The power creep in Naruto got so out of control so fast. At the start of the series I could understand why the Sharingan and Byuakugan were rival eye powers. Being able to cast and see through illusions and with such clarity that you could mimick things after seeing it once could go head to head with being able to see 359 degrees and with x-ray vision. Both of those abilities were broken as frick but not so broken that they couldn't be fought against, just very difficult. But as the series progressed the Sharingan not only gained the ability to summon gundam ghost mechs but also create savestates in reality and open portals to other dimensions. Why did Kishimoto do it?
The Byakugan was still really strong. Remember that one rogue Hyuuga almost 2v1d Shisui and Itachi by doing dumb shit like counter-spelling a fireball by poking it until Shisui got an about-to-die power up.
Kishi was always a hack, the early part of the manga was wrangled by his editor to make it about ninja politics and espionage. If Kishi had had his way, Naruto would've been a literal sentient fox and there would've been magical kaiju battles from the very start. You can pinpoint exactly where Naruto got popular enough that he was let off the leash and allowed to do what he wanted without oversight: the Chuunin Exams arc.
>NOOO how dare you ask for other characters to get focus instead of consooming 200 episodes of soulless goku and vegeta beating up a bad guy then again and again??!
I've seen this argument used a lot lately by normalgays who enjoyed the Fallout show and never played a single game (except possibly 3 or 4) to justify attacking fans of the older games.
Toriyama's problem has always been character focus, the Buu saga didn't know what it wanted to do and he left Super as a whole with the same problem. >Buu >Beast Gohan >Orange Picollo >Goten and Trunks >Broly >Perfected Ultra Instict >Ultra Ego
All need character development and realistically only Goku and Vegeta are going to get it. I don't know why the frick Toriyama thought bringing Broly into the main cast was a good idea when he has no chance for development and needs his personality re-written through character development he's never going to get to be anything other than unga bunga. Fricker should have stayed on that planet and just lived a peaceful life.
I still don't know what the frick Goten is even supposed to be. Trunks is obviously being groomed to take over for Bulma while having his father's more aggressive personality. And I guess that sort of shows in his friendship with Goten with Trunks taking the lead whenever they interact. But Goten barely even exists as a character. He's super polite... and that's it.
What Toriyama should've done is had Goku sit out the Androids Saga and let the other Z Fighters deal with it so they get their own character development and closure. Have Gohan fill the gap. Maybe justify it by having Goku tracing the Saiyan legacy across the galaxy to learn more about his people and clean up the mess that Frieza left.
A good lower-stakes saga so the group who got left behind by Goku get a chance to shine.
The problem with Broly is Toriyama said he is the strongest in the universe when he masters ki control.
And…then what? He’s training with Goku and Vegeta so obviously he’ll learn to master it pretty quickly. There’s no reason for anything to be a threat anymore when Broly should be able to handle everything from now on
Heck even Beast Gohan
Hunt for the Dragon Balls was cute and funny but overall flat
21st WT was more of the same until the final fight which was when Toriyama finally started to understand what direction to take the series in
Red Ribbon Army is peak DB. Fun unique fights, most of the gags hit, memorable characters like Tao Pai Pai and Korin, just really great action and humor all around
22nd WT was more of the same except Toriyama really picked up in the storytelling department and action scenes
King Piccolo was a little flat, not as good as the previous arcs but still had really high moments
23rd WT was a great way to end Goku’s journey as the world’s strongest. Nothing more I could say. Goku vs Piccolo is my favorite fight
Saiyan arc was phenomenal with its storytelling, emotional beats, and action packed fights. The best of what the franchise has to offer
Namek arc was pretty good. Vegeta was at his peak here, Ginyu Force was great, Freeza is FREEZA, Super Saiyan changed THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY, what could I even say? Freeza’s fight is a bit long but it also plays into this indestructible force that he presents to our heroes
Android arc starts out with some really amazing stuff, lots of highs. But halfway through it becomes bogged down by plot convinences, characters acting moronic to advance the plot, and mediocre fights. The Cell Games is very boring and while SSJ2 Gohan is a great payoff, he doesn’t really do anything the entire arc and feels underwhelming. Goku’s sacrifice and the beam struggle are amazing tho
Buu arc changes up the formula by returning to Dr Slump’s style of more slice of life and being gag heavy. This is an amazing return to form and Toriyama really shines here. Buu and Gotenks are just…amazing. The arc is at its worst when it tries to be like Dragon Ball Z ironically. Everyone vs Kid Buu is the best fight in the series.
GT and Super aren’t worth mentioning. BoG was great. RoF was trash. Broly and Super Hero were great.
It hurts that the series will be unfinished. We will never know Nameless Namekian true purpose and see Picollo split from Nail, as it was foreshadowed.
>we will never know who the original super Saiyan god was >or how/why Zalama created the dragon balls >or finally see Toriyama’s vision of Goku surpassing Beerus and having a rematch >or see that solo Vegeta movie he mentioned about doing >or what his plans were with Broly, Gohan, and Piccolo now that they’re the strongest heroes >or what his post End of Z plans were now that Super Hero was the final point before it
The one silver of hope was that they said he was working on multiple unannounced projects before he passed. Maybe he left an outline for the next couple years of Dragon Ball…
>toyohacko manga
I will never accept that fraud writing, tracing, bad anatomy, loser as a “successor”for Dragon Ball
Damn dude hasn’t even made a tribute to Toriyama yet. Every other manga author under the sun did but not Toyo huh? Guess taking a month off the manga isn’t enough time…
Most likely Sasuke, Toriyama’s son, will be in charge of most Dragon Ball projects (excluding anime stuff, which is in that one guy’s hands who I can’t remember) from now on since it seems like he was being propped up by his pops when he handled Super Hero
>people need to respect Vegeta more, this moronic as frick "jobber" meme when he's killed more people than Goku is not funny, the dude also helped finish off both Cell and Buu by distracting them yet nobody seems to remember that part. Shounentards learning from WWEhomosexuals was the worst thing to ever happen around here
they need to kill off goku and bejita already, give the series to gohan already. if anyone disagrees then tell me why? you could go so many different interesting routes with gohan as the lead
Gohan is not a replacement for Goku
I like Gohan but he should be his own character. I don't want a Goku lite. There's a reason why Toriyama brought back Goku for the Buu saga.
I don't hate the Buu saga, but everything from Fat Buu getting ate to Kid Buu is complete pointless nonsense >Legendary sword that means nothing introduced >Potential unleashed introduced, doesnt do much >Fusion introduced literally out of nowhere >Fusion 2 introduced even more out of nowhere >Every fight with Super Buu is just beating his ass until he gets an instakill in because he doesn't take damage, the Gotenks fight was ok but meaningless
Kid Buu's not all that interesting as a villain but the fight was rad
Hate everything about Super Buu
All the powerups (especially fusions) were MASSIVE asspulls that just don't get called out as such like SSJ because they didn't fricking accomplish anything
>Won't be in Daipa >Sparking zero will likely have his Cell/Buu arc outfits
Things are looking up for Tenshinhan
>Hate everything about Super Buu
Base Super Buu was great, and still retained the personality of Fat Buu. He was very smart, what pisses me off more is him being okay with killing Mr Satan after he absorbs Gotenks. The inner conflict of Buu was interesting, but it was dropped really fast.
>No I'd just have preferred there not be a conga line of powerups
The same shit happens in Cell.
Three androids being stronger than the entire cast after years of training just because, and Cell becoming strong enough to fight them after eating tons of people within like a week is the same shit. Vegeta getting his ass kicked just to have the Hyperbolic Time Chamber come out of nowhere to become "Super Vegeta" is the same thing. Neutering Gohan as if the Recoome fight never happened so he could go SSJ2 is the same thing.
It just sugarcoats it all with a serious tone instead of playing up the absurdity of it.
Oh yeah random heart virus from literally nowhere is such a good reason compared to being literally dead with a limited amount of time on earth which was established in DB years before.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Objection! Its not random, its entirely plausible that goku picked up a virus on Planet Yardrat.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's a human virus, dipshit. It's not from Yardrat not to mention that would mean it took 4 years to manifest.
Not to mention, Goku and his family practically live in seclusion feeding off of the land, catching fish and eating Dino meat and for three years before the androids showed up they were training with Piccolo. Where and how would Goku contract a heart virus without his family also getting it? The, like, half an hour they spent in the city looking for the androids because that's one hell of a fast acting virus.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Goku cannot be kept off Earth. He doesnt care about your time limits or feelings.
I've got no qualms about introducing stronger villains or having the villain gaining powerups (especially since that's basically the entire driving force of that arc.)
The time chamber was some bullshit though I agree there
>The time chamber was some bullshit though I agree there
I never had an issue with it because it was only useful once for a fighter instead of something you could abuse.
>I've got no qualms about introducing stronger villains
I do because then Gero is just being a fricking idiot using the weakest tech he has to kill Goku off the bat and everyone getting slight design changes to emphasize their supposed powerup.
Piccolo being the most glaring one since he visually doesn't change at all.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
17/18 refused to listen to him and wanted to kill him
Cell took over 20+ years to be finished and Gero wasn’t waiting for that
Although you could argue he should’ve used Android 16 instead of 19 since he seemed loyal and would kill Goku
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
The thing I have an issue with is that 16 could have killed everyone. and that with no explanation at all, Gero gives himself a body weaker than 16 and goes into battle with it.
My entire problem with the androids is that Gero had capable tech the entire god damn time and never uses, and all the saiyans go through a barbie haircut marathon trying to beat them.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Because of how 17/18 reacted to his infinite energy he may have been scared it would’ve messed up his mind
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
This is about 16 being the strongest one, not 17 or 18.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Gero was afraid of becoming a cyborg like 17 and 18 because the nano machines can destroy a persons mind. The future androids were crazed killers with no humanity because the nanotech took over. 16 is infinite energy like 17 and 18 but he was never a human to begin with so there's no issue.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
None of that is ever stated in the manga.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Toriyama explained how 17 and 18's infinite energy worked and why Gero was afraid of becoming one in an interview years ago. 17 and 18 are just regular people with nano machines in/around their cells and an infinite energy core. He explained how cyborgs like that can "lose one's self."
Reminder Gohan >disappointed everyone by not training during the 7 years and becoming weak >jobbed against Dabura >jobbed so hard against Buu everyone thought he was still dead even after they wished everyone who died to come back KEKAROOOO >spent hours waving a dumb sword around only to job it against a rock >sat down for a day and become the strongest, only to come back and almost immediately start jobbing to Buu again >says he’s a self proclaimed scholar yet BUU, THE MAN HE CALLED A moron, OUTSMARTED HIM >jobbed so bad Elder Kai decided to kill himself so Goku could come back and become the MC again >JOBBED TO THE ICONIC PIC RELATED >in the end, became nothing but fusion fodder for Buu
People always ask how come Goku and Vegeta didn’t wish for Gohan to come with them so he could finish Kid Buu and it’s like…would YOU trust Gohan to not somehow job again after his performance all arc?
>Took Super over a hundred and thirty episodes and a movie to have a good art style and animation >Daima has it immediately outta the gate in the first two teasers
OH NONONONONO
A demon from the demon realm cursed them into chibi forms so now they have to go explore the demon realm to find a way to undo it >dragon balls
Cannot undo the curse if it was out by somehow stronger than their creator, and Dende is a massive jobber
It was pretty good up until the entire thing ground to a fricking halt so Gotenks could be a moron and Gohan could be a moron and Goku could be Goku and Although I did find parts of it quite enjoyable.
The fights stop being interesting when you know the fusions do nothing and everyone that isn't Goku will job to Buu. It doesn't help that it drags on for way too long.
Buu was a great villain because it was fun to have a strong moron as the bad guy instead of another faux british frickboy making speeches like Cell and Frieza
Tell me about it. Imagine if he was just a character who skulked in the darkness and hunted people the entire arc, including the non essential Z fighters like Yamcha and Tien, which is where he would get the Kamehameha, solar flare and so on, instead of evolving into not Frieza he had a Cell X style form from the get go.
>thought imperfect Cell looked cool >was disappointed to his more humanlike features with Semi-Perfect, but still looked enough of a monster that I let it slide >become utterly bored and disappointed with Cell the moment he became Perfect
It was so much more entertaining when Cell looked the part of a monster. Then his face and physique become more human and I just checked out from there. I had the same reaction when Frieza looked like a horn freak of nature each time he transformed only to take all that away with the final form.
>thought imperfect Cell looked cool >was disappointed to his more humanlike features with Semi-Perfect, but still looked enough of a monster that I let it slide >become utterly bored and disappointed with Cell the moment he became Perfect
It was so much more entertaining when Cell looked the part of a monster. Then his face and physique become more human and I just checked out from there. I had the same reaction when Frieza looked like a horn freak of nature each time he transformed only to take all that away with the final form.
I dislike that he loses his wings then grows them back. The second form should've kept them.
Dragon Ball was never that serious to begin with. It seems that people with no interests outside of watching cartoons wants their entertainment to be more sophisticated than it really is.
The Sayan saga handled stakes well. The Namek Saga is the epitome of the series, even if the Spirit Bomb took forever to come out in the anime, Goku grieving over Krillin and achieving Super Sayian cannot be topped.
It could've been good. >babidi wants to awake buu >dabura pretends that he is under his control >buu is awakened and it turns out he's just a fat moronic child >dabura kills babidi and takes control of buu >buu never changes forms >janemba and other demons join dabura >only (ONE) type of fusion, the dance >the human characters even fuse >the whole cast fights the hell demons >eventually buu joins the good side and uses his magic powers along with mr satan to stop dabura
>mysterious youth with blue and purple color scheme warns that an evil old guy is going to unleash his monster(s) >they try to stop him but bungle it due to stupidity >the monster appears harmless at first, but gets absorbed by a bigger evil >can regenerate and absorb people >reverts to a weaker form in the end and tries to blow itself up
God, imagine being Trunks and hearing all these stories from your mom about how cool and aloof your dad is, then you go back and meet him and it turns out he's a manlet with anger issues and an ego bigger than his widow's peak.
youth with blue and purple color scheme warns that an evil old guy is going to unleash his monster(s)
This is literally the closest thing to a similarity that you have and it came after the saiyaman miniarc and happened during a tournament and not in the middle of nowhere. >they try to stop him but bungle it due to stupidity
That's only true for Cell since they were stopped by a door of all things. In the buu saga Vegeta threatens innocents to get Goku to fight giving him an ultimatum rather than something they could face just blasted down. >the monster appears harmless at first, but gets absorbed by a bigger evil
Except buu being eaten by Buu is still just buu, it's not like babidi or dabura were absorbed.
Not to mention the first thing he androids did was kill gero so they were anything but harmless from the get go. >can regenerate and absorb people
Buu's regeneration functions in a completely different fashion to Cell's which is Namekian unless you're trying to say he can regenerate from smoke or any of the other body altering feats buu had. >reverts to a weaker form in the end and tries to blow itself up
Buu reverts to a weaker form and does blow up the earth and continues the battle in that form with a bunch of unorthodox moves and abilities.
Cell reverts to a weaker form, fails to blow up the earth and returns in an even stronger one ending it with an ordinary beam struggle.
Being reductionist as hell doesn't prove your point.
The fact Kaioshin wasn't tortured enough or better kille, for being such a frick up is a crime frick that character. He helped out Babidi more than aiding the Z fighters let that sink in.
how the FRICK did Toei agree on funding Daima? This little snipper alone looks prettier than the entirety of frickig Super, and therefore probably 10x more expensive than outsourcing it to chinks or whatever the frick super did.
No, seriously, is the rest of it going to be looking like shit worse than super or what? What's the technical-economical reason of such jump? I'm certain Toei didn't suddenly go "You know we should make it actually quality again this time hehe" with no reason.
Why the frick does the rest of "Pedo" (Translation: I think of sex when i see children in a show) series in japan still follows the cheapskit ideology then? You would think everything starring children would look that good in this case.
>He helped out Babidi more than aiding the Z fighters let that sink in.
I mean, not really. He let Spopovich and Yamu drain Gohan just to find out the location of their base which was necessary after that it was Goku and Vegeta that fricked everything over.
He should already know where their base will be since it's obviously going to be where they sealed Buu. Not to mention they checked the area where the ship was hiding and didn't noticed the freaking "M" symbol on it.
>Not to mention they checked the area where the ship was hiding and didn't noticed the freaking "M" symbol on it.
Gee, it's almost as if it was underground when they had checked.
Do you people even know how to read?
It wasn't necessary why didn't he beat up Spopo and Yamu to force them to tell him the location, or have Baba use her Crystal or the fricking Dragon Balls something the highest ranked deity had no idea existed.
>A god should just beat the shit out of mortals for info or use mortal created magic wish-granting tools for info
you're just spouting off whatever now, huh?
you said that already, homosexual, and you were also already corrected on the whole Babidi thing. the fricker used magic to hide his base from Shin and Kibito. The guy risked his life trying to find a dying Gohan yet you spreg the frick out over a little energy drain when it was Goku and Vegeta's fight that awoke Buu.
>It wasn't necessary why didn't he beat up Spopo and Yamu to force them to tell him the location
Ignoring the fact that it's a god beating up humans Babidi can monitor them and blow them up.
The whole buu saga could've been avoided if he wasn't such a moron who saw a house with maijin symbol and though "hmmm I guess Babidi isn't here!". Also why wouldn't he know where Buu is buried since he helped bury him?
read the manga version of buu saga and i like it more than cell saga. Sorry! it doesnt take itself seriously and aims for a more comedic approach than the rest of DBZ.
>I read the manga version
The buu saga is when toriyama's manga art turned into shitty chicken scratches kek.
Buu is so objectively bad that I had to reply to bait.
Because super saiyan works best with someone who is pure of heart. And being booty blasted that you're getting fricked, again, isn't the same as seeing everyone you love get hurt
>Pure of heart
That means pure in intentions, not a hero.
why didn't BEJITA unlock super saiyan when he was getting his ass raped so hard by freeza he started crying from sheer frustration?
Probably because he had too much shit on his mind >Be the prince >Be more powerful than some lowly dipshit >Stop being frieza's b***h >Become immortal
So his intentions weren't really pure since he was extremely unfocused. If all he cared about was just one of those things, say, being the strongest saiyan, then he probably would have become SSJ back when Goku went Kaioken against him.
Why do Black folk love DBZs worst arc so much?
morons like the nonstop, pointless fighting.
Best music
Best visuals
Best one liners
Best highlight moments
Best retrospectives
By the time you watch the Buu Saga you already accepted DBZ for all its flaws and reminisce on its best moments
buu saga was dog shit thow. the saga doubled down on what was already a flawed but watchable series to complete shit.
Buu was a shit villian with regeneration bullshit worse then cell making his fights not fun to watch
story makes no sense. why are there grand kai's and why is dbz universes version of satan literally on earth
New character sucks
goes way overboard with powerlever wank
even my 12 year old boy self who was obcess with DBZ fricking hated the buu saga
Cell more fun to watch than Buu? Cell has no moves of his own, everything came from someone else. Buu has his magic and cartoon physics. Pure shit taste to prefer Cell over Buu.
Cell spends most of his time retreating from Z fighters that I don't understand why people think it's so great. Especially when Buu saga has way better fights than just Piccolo vs 17 and Perfect Cell vs. The World
because up until the Cell games, most of the cast actually plays a part in the story. in the Frieza and Buu saga 90% of the cast does frick all.
>most of the cast actually plays a part in the story
>goku nearly dies from cardiac arrest
>gohan does fricking nothing
>yamcha gets fisted by a old man and sits out
>tien nearly dies holding back Cell, jobbed to androids prior
>chaotsu does nothing
>krillin simped for a girl so hard that it put the world in danger
>trucks poorly described his future when in the past, lost his unique sword, and wanted cell to kill him
>piccolo jobs, becomes god and threatens he will continue to be evil when the androids are gone, jobs again and was basically tsundere the entire fricking time
>vegeta is actually accelerating Cell's plans when he's not jobbing
A lot of this shit is questionable to straight up bad. Trying to juggle all these characters did not work out at the end.
>Cell spends most of his time retreating from Z fighters
Yeah, and it's cool as frick.
Cell singlehandedly fueled the entirety of the penis vore fandom with his tail
Wrong minority. It's the latinos. They got DBZ first in the West and were the original gatekeeping weebs.
>original gatekeeping weebs
You are just jealous we liked Dragon Ball before it was cool to like it.
>Why do Black folk love DBZs worst arc so much?
Because they're Gohantrannies and jerk off to Gohan beating Cell even though Cell sucks.
>tardku fans when Goku defeats the bad guy for the 500th time while everyone watches
Goku only wins 2 fights in the entirety of Z (frieza and buu)
It's all bejitabros, they don't care the arc is dogshit, they got their little gay bombing and their little gay overtones fight with ki-based BDSM gear.
That's some awful garbage people pretend is good too.
The Majin Boo arc isn't bad, it's just bad compared to the previous arcs (excluding the first one).
Because it's still DBZ.
If you understand how magic and demons actually really work by studying the occult and religion you would actually realize that the Buu saga is pretty kino and fairly accurate. I'm not saying I prefer it above the previous arcs although I probably prefer it over the saiyan arc.
Majinn's in the arc are all childish but super dangerous demons (jinn = demon) that can snap at any moment. They also seem to defy the established rules of the world. Super Buu even broke through the time chamber with his screaming. This is completely accurate to what real life demons actually are like. Kid Buu being at the time the highest and most strongest being in Dragon Ball and him being a completely vicious little child is actually pretty epic and on point. So Tori real knew his stuff is what I am saying.
>inb4 smart ass remarks from anons calling me a gay or something along those lines
Don't blame me, Toriyama himself is the one who wrote the arc the way it was for a reason and all what I am saying is I believe the man knew a whole lot and you guys perhaps don't know much of anything. A lot of the plot and themes in this arc was actually well done and on point.
so demons can become pacified and friendly if you just feed them a bunch of food?
Yes, just like cats.
Demons are childish homosexuals that turned away from god. So yes feeding them food will pacify them.
Basically. You ever heard those old folk tales? Plenty of them the world over have spirits that can be pacified and even befriended with offerings of food but turn truly foul when angered (brownies, nisse, etc).
demons of gluttony...yeah probably
>demons of gluttony
tell me more
Because Friezas design is cool
because of Goku's and Vegeta's bromance coming full circle
Because the ss2 transformation was too iconic for better or worse
It does multiverse timelines perfectly. Once a timeline is doomed, you can't erase it. You can only make a new timeline - which means the original DBZ timeline is filled with instances where the bad guy ends up winning.
Because fusion was cool and the best concept DBZ had for powerups since Super Saiyan 1.
not the best but it had good moments in it
True, but Buu is great
If stayed with Fat Buu throughout the arc and ended with Satan befriending and reforming him it would've been a lot better.
Nah it's good.
The show goes from scifi back to fantasy like shadow of the torturer.
I'm playing it right now, Vegeta is a moron.
Same with the cell saga.
At least the Cell saga didn't butcher Gohan and create the worst fight scene in the series with Gotenks.
Toriyama and Toyotaro said it was the best fight
The entire cell saga was everyone throwing in the most moronic ways possible. Cell wasn't smart or anything the z fighters just threw him so many bones
They threw even harder in the buu saga.
>ssj3 goku deciding not to kill buu because why not
>gotenks deciding not to kill buu because why not
>ultimate gohan deciding not to kill buu because why not
>vegito deciding not to kill buu because why not
>At least the Cell saga didn't butcher Gohan
It did thou he fought with all he had fighting recoome but killing cell? to save the world ugh i don't fight =(
Honestly, he was ruined after the cell saga
Cellgays whine about the Buu arc having too many pointless characters and villain transformations but have absolutely no issue with the Cell arc having Frieza, King Cold, Androids 19, 20, 16, 17, 18 and then 3 Cell transformations as villains, all of which facilitated by the characters doing the stupidest shit imaginable like Goku not taking his heart medicine and Vegeta allowing Cell to absorb 18. Buu surviving Vegeta's explosion is called an asspull but no one has an issue with Gohan reaching SS2 after watching 16 die even though he never even met him before
>Buu surviving Vegeta's explosion is called an asspull
I've seen way more people refer to the scene where Goku blows Cell's top half off as contrived than Vegeta's Final Explosion.
>and create the worst fight scene in the series with Gotenks.
Shit like this is why I think Cellgays are fake fans. Actual gag fight, the type of stuff Toriyama loves and they hate it.
Gotenks is literally the best fight. You're a fricking moron.
it runs off so much plot contrivance
It has majin vegeta tho
>dies for nothing in your path
the point of that scene was his character growth, not him not killing buu
It would've been better if he stayed dead and his sacrificed mogged Buu so hard he split into his good and evil forms. He gets brought back just to be Goku's b***h.
Thats the babidi saga, which was excellent
>separating them into mini arcs
>sagas
Almost threw up
I have to because Saiyaman, otherworld tournament, and babidi all deserve better than to be lumped in with the buu saga
>Funitard
Sayan saga started with raditz and ended when vegeta first left earth. Namek started when everyone left earth and ended after everyone was revived. Cell saga started with Trunks coming back into time and killed Mecha Frieza and ended when Gohan and Goku killed Cell. Buu started the first episode of the timeskip and... well its pretty objective when that ended.
It's a top 3 arc along with Piccolo Jr and Saiyan saga
it does feel all over the place in terms of story but its still fun so I dont care
didn't toriyama literally have a mental break down during its development? I read somewhere that he was is in a pretty bad way due to home issues and stuff but he had deadlines and trucked through it.
He wanted it to end after the freiza saga.
Toriyama had written the series chapter to chapter for most of its entire run. He had been writing in natural conclusions for the franchise since early dragon ball.
not true at all, and all the people who keep repeating this shit have no source for it. toriyama wrote dragon ball consistently until he just decided to stop at buu. there was never an intention to end it at freiza or cell
>pic
was akira toriyama a homo? who else loved drawing steroid muscle men in anime more than him?
>Sees muscles
>Immediately Thinks of homos
Anon, i have bad news for you
every gay district in any western city is always full of guys on steroids and going to the gym everyday though. it's the same in places like brazil too.
Every gay district is also full of men.
Do you want to say that being a man is innately homosexual too?
men are innately homosexual and Ganker proves this to be true just by posting a few traps so yes.
no he just hated women/his wife
>no he just hated women
Literally me wtf
He was a known pedophile. He is in q rare class of known pedos with work so good people overlook the pedophilia.
He wanted Z to be Gohan's story and the Buu saga was supposed to be the climax of Gohan's coming of age. But his editor kept forcing Goku back, so Toriyama just kind of gave up and that's why the arc drops off a cliff as soon as Gohan jobs. There's a reason why DBZ ends with Goku being disappointed with his friends/family and entrusting the future of the planet to some random niglet. Toriyama was bitter as frick.
damn that would have been kino. it actually makes sense
So his editor ruined dbz's final arc and gohan's character forever? Fricking dickhead.
This has always been a completely fake rumor made up by homosexuals who upset about Gohan's utilization in the buu saga
>Goku retires at the end of the Cell Saga
>Vegeta reaches the end of his character development and sacrifices himself
>a few episodes later...
>Goku/Vegeta fan service out of nowhere
I get it that you're a Goku mark, but be honest with yourself
Vegeta had to come back to life or otherwise Yamcha would make a move on Bulma, and we can't have that.
Goku didn't retire, he ditched the earth to go have fun in heaven. Upon returning he realized he should and wants to be a father instead.
>Vegeta reaches the end of his character development and sacrifices himself
What? He lived!
>Goku/Vegeta fan service
They fricked up and released buu and spent the entire rest of the saga trying to undo their own mess. It's made clear again and again that neither one of them are capable of doing it alone, and ultimately they are only able to prevail through the combined efforts of nearly every character in the show.
bro wants to get split roasted by Goku and Vegeta
b***h got her ass beaten so hard that she stopped battling and lost anything interesing about her character
brutal. she literally got the fight beaten out of her. videl could have bounced back and continued on and maybe even won the next tournament. I guess she just couldn't comeback from getting spop'd mentally.
Anyone else get a boner every time she screamed?
The network that aired it in my country pussied out and showed only select bits of that beating.
Germany? I hear most media in that country is censored to shit.
No, he was just fricking around with the story because he was bored. He kept trying new things, deciding it shouldn't end like that, and moving on to something else, until a gag character makes the villain fight himself and gives Goku the power to end it. It's peak Toriyama.
Why do people continue to make this shit up with Toriyama and Dragonball? He brought Goku back because he wanted to. It's almost as annoying as saying Dragonball was supposed to end with Frieza. None of that shit is true.
It's grade school urban legends to whine about how certain characters acted or were "treated"
he said buu saga made him lose interest in drawing battle manga
>vegeta has an obvious redemption moment and the series should have ended at that exact point
>toriyama immediately make it's another jobbing
frick dbz
I'm surprised Kid Buu didn't survive the spirit bomb with how bullshit indestructible he was.
>cell saga
>if even a single cell survives... KAMEHMAHAMHAAAAAA dead
>buu saga
>if even a single piece of pink slime survives... SPIRIT BOOOOOMBB dead
he gave up
>buu
>cell but pink and less science more bullshit
>kid buu
Ok now kid buu is just cool like venom regardless of how brainless
True, Buu was a Cell knockoff, especially Super Buu. Fat Buu was interesting since he was more of a child-like evil unlike Cell or Frieza
Vegeta and Frieza were King Piccolo expies right down to having regal titles (prince and emperor)
lol
lmao even
most "villains" in history who had greater power than everyone else were emperors and royalty in general tho
Cell’s return was the most BS moment I’ve ever seen in a Shonen manga
>HAHA! I’M NOT DEAD I’M ACTUALLY ALIVE!!!
>THERE’S ACTUALLY A CLUSTER IN MY HEAD THAT IF IT DOESN’T GET DESTROYED I’M GOOD!!!
>ALSO MY CELLS REMEMBERED MY PERFECT FORM SO I’M PERFECT AGAIN!!!
>ALSO I GOT A ZENKAI BOOST SO NOW I’M SSJ2 LEVEL!!!
>ALSO I LEARNED HOW TO INSTANT TRANSMISSION BECAUSE FRICK YOU!!!
Like if this was posted nowadays??? Dragon Ball would’ve been mocked to death for it
There's precedent for him regenerating like that earlier in the arc, and him doing so lead to a more satisfying climax
What was the precedent because Goku burnt his fricking head off right before hand.
Toriyama even does the same fricking jab with Piccolo even though he never demonstrated such healing before hand in the entire series.
You mean when he regenerated after the core in his head was destroyed?
Thank goodness the core in his head allowed him to-…….
Correct
people ignore how dumb it is because of how great the beam struggle was with him and Gohan.
That and Vegeta giving up his saiyan pride and attacking Perfect Cell from the back to distract him.
Buu was made of pure evil, unlike normal life that has the capacity for good. Made sense to me.
they had to end it somehow and they hadnt used it in a while. shouldve been the devilmite beam though
the spirit bomb destroyed buu at a cellular level leaving nothing behind. Did you moronic pieces of shit even watch the show?
That's not the point Black person. The only reason Buu died then is because the plot required it. If they wanted it to keep going, Buu would've survived it.
That was your point you stupid dumb Black person idiot
You don't know shit cumdumpster rape Black person
Genki Damma destroys everything that is evil. Kid Buu was pure evil.
he didn't survive because toriyama was simply done
he survived vegeta suicide because he wasn't done yet simple as
Vegeta's redemption literally happened on screen with 100% validity when the dragonballs were used to revive all good people and Vegeta got included. Can't get any more redeemed than that.
his redemption should have been eternity in hell but had still stopped the biggest baddy who was going to destroy the entire universe
>This is farewell... Bulma... Trunks... and even you... best buddy.
>Nope, still hate it.
I'll be honest, the DBZA Buu Bits did not appeal to me. It had some good jokes but thete was too much reliance on callbacks.
>Tumblr Videl
Thanks I hate it
I thought they weren't doing Buu.
They did Buu Bits for some review of the Buu Saga, Mr. Puts The gay In Tripgay.
Ah, okay.
Why cant they just do buu saga anyways?
Burnout plus Toei fricking hates them.
So? Its just a parody, who cares if toei hates them?
Well the problem was that Toei kept trying to kill their channel and then they'd have to fight it and then Toei would try to kill their channel again. Between that and just struggling to come up with new jokes the team just got burned out and decided not to do it anymore. It kind of shows with the Buu Bits. Gohan allowing Videl to sit on his face is funny in motion but that was already a meme for years before they voiced it. Gotenks and Videl bickering over pronouns is a nothing joke. I will say that Saiyaman adventures was cool but that's just because the raw material they had to work with was already good. In the end they quit on a good spot
Because Toei has actively been working against them. They were greylisted for a while after the whole Cell Games reenactment thing.
>thinks he should be redeemed after killing multiple humans at the tournament, setting free a monster who causes the extinction of the human race, all for “MUH PRIDE!”
Nah, he doesn’t deserve it there and Toriyama knew that so he made Buu come back unharmed
The ACTUAL redemption was helping during the Final Fight
you'd have to be genuinely moronic to think this was a good place to end the entire series (that is centred mostly around goku).
also this is barely a redemption considering the shit vegeta has done
people need to respect Vegeta more, this moronic as frick "jobber" meme when he's killed more people than Goku is not funny, the dude also helped finish off both Cell and Buu by distracting them yet nobody seems to remember that part. Shounentards learning from WWEhomosexuals was the worst thing to ever happen around here
the only reason perfect cell came to be is because of vegeta's actions homosexual
which is what Gohan does as well, their power-ups put them higher than their respective current level Cell to the point they got wienery and he comes back stronger. I will never get why morons like you somehow conflict characters making mistakes (which are in line with who they are) with poor character writing.
no wonder toriyama had so much fun shitting on bejita and bejitagays
>when he's killed more people than Goku
That's because Goku doesn't kill. I mean, he's the one who defeated Burter and Recoom and Vegeta just kill stealed.
It had its moments
>Gave us the most kino looking SS form
>Gave us the kino that is Majin Vegeta vs Goku
>Gave Schlommel 4 entire minutes of pain torment (Maybe more behind the scenes)
>mogs the buu saga
>filters normalgays
kino
>Pedo pandering: the show
great they returned to their roots
Yeah, i don't get it, i remember i loved GT because it was actually entertaining but hated the new one (was it super?) because it just felt like "generic anime n° 57890" and the transformations were "lol neon hair dye", while everyone i talked to in high school was loving the new one because nu dragonball cul and hated GT because muh noncanon/strange/not dbz
I don't care about what's canon anymore in anything. I like what I like and that's that. Whatever I don't like I ignore.
I like certain concepts in Super. The idea of a rogue god deciding to cast judgement onto hyper violent mortals who don't listen to them and can end up threatening the universe is an interesting concept that bursts into flames the moment they decided to elaborate on it.
For GT I think the concepts are more interesting when they take from Z and expand on it. Like yeah if the Tuffles who shared a planet with the Saiyans were still around, they wouldn't be satisfied hanging out with quirky ole Goku and Vegeta. They'd fricking hate them. The Saiyans genocided their entire fricking race and survived their own genocide stronger than ever. And Goku's Super Saiyan 4 isn't a heroic recolor, it doubles down on the fact that yes, Saiyans are inherently violent by nature and that's not pretty. The only reason we like it it's because Goku is on our side. Same deal with the DragonBalls. It's a meme that problems don't exist in DB's universe because you can always just wish them away. Well what if there were a reason why you shouldn't do that? Because Elder Kai brings it up, there's a reason why the Dragonballs scatter after being used. Normally it'd be impossible for negative energy to be built up because of how difficult the DragonBalls used to be to find. But thanks to Bulma the DragonBalls are used literally every year. And not even for anything important, just for stupid shit like Goku getting a present for his wife or Bulma giving herself a bigger ass. It had to bite them eventually and that's a cool concept for an arc.
I feel like GT looks way better than Super.
GT, being a late 90's series, still has that iconic grit in its artstyle. No idea if it was because it was cel animation, usage of film or the artstyle itself demanded it, but it also went really good with its mostly desaturated color pallette. Something about that gloomy look just feels comfy and nostalgic And i didn't even know about dragon ball until like 2016 if we don't count popular memes like OVER9000 and kamehameha for it to feel like that
Super is too fricking bright and clean. While the artstyle still tries to keep Toriyamas' proportions and faces, it still goes way too close to the "modern mass produced anime" full of flashes, bright colors, overly clean lines and cookie cutter characters territory that really feels bland as shit.
Except for Super Broly movie and Daima trailer. Those two felt like a breath of an entire planet of fresh air and i hope Daima actually delivers more eye candy than just its trailer.
Being better than Super isn't the high mark you think it is. GT is still absolutely fricking terrible and somehow only a little less ridiculous than Super.
Pan ruined GT worse than Gohan shitters ruined DragonBall as a whole.
>GT is still absolutely fricking terrible and somehow only a little less ridiculous than Super. Pan ruined GT worse than Gohan shitters ruined DragonBall as a whole.
Black person i am explicitly talking about the artstyle and visuals, not the fricking story.
>Those chins.
You might want to rethink that case then. LOL!
I'm starting to get the feeling GT-haters are just casuals that are repulsed by e-girlta. Every single complaint I've seen boils down to hating Pan's fanservice moments
There's also the complete lack of direction, the show abandoning the premise of being worse DB and pivoted into worse DBZ. The villains are all forgettable, Goku is a massive screen hog and anyone not named Goku or Vegeta gets done dirty, the writing in general is really fricking bad.
And Pan isn't attractive, so you can't even call anything she does fan service. She's just an annoying brat.
The Shadow Dragons were a cool concept at least.
The first arc of GT is better than post-Cell DBZ and Super, and Pan is super cute. She's a cuter Bulma without being dead weight. If you don't want to kiss her on the lips you are a queer
no, it isn't, pedophile. even then the planet-hopping shit is so segmented you can't even call it "an arc" as certain planets have their own mini-arcs
It's called having media literacy. Any normal human hates GT.
>projecting
ironically that's the only reason someone would say "GT was good".
It's called edge kino
For the longest time anime/manga gays have had this autistic hang up on what's canon vs what isn't. Anything that wasn't entirely by the original author was deemed to be shit, not matter what merits it had. It was most rampant in the late 00s and 10s where all anyone had to say about series like GT, FMA 2003 or Hellsing 2001 were "ugh the author didn't work on this? it's automatically shit".
It was when book adaptations and the like was being released and was never faithful to anything. I do agree that FMA 2003 is superior to the manga and Brotherhood.
To be fair, FMA 03 was abject shit compared to the manga and brotherhood mainly because everything that was being set up in the start was abandoned the Dante twist and the homunculi weakness didn't make a lick of sense since their components would be in the homunculi in the first place.
>and hated GT because muh noncanon/strange/not dbz
Here's the thing, no one hated it for those reasons, they hated it because it takes a massive dump on everything that came before, like, what was the point in cell if 17 was supposed to be stronger than him anyway?
Then there's the animation with GT having the worst animation in dragonball history at the time and currently only being rivalled by heroes.
I don’t understand why GT has bad animation when Buu had the best animation in the whole series and it was pretty much the same production team wasn’t it????
>hating on de aging Goku to his BEST state
> Goku to his BEST state
But enough about Adult Goku Dragon Ball is a series where we are meant to move forward not backwards.
>is a series where we are meant to move forward
>Super, his favorite garbage series, first two arcs are retellings
>the first movie brings back Broly
>the second movie brings back RR Army and Cell
>the movie prior to SHITper brought back Freeza
Incredible progress forward…
>I don’t understand why GT has bad animation when Buu had the best animation in the whole series and it was pretty much the same production team wasn’t it
Because it was designed to keep the cash cow going rather than to be a quality product not to mention since there was no manga, much like the super anime, they had no reference material for what it should be.
how the FRICK did Toei agree on funding Daima? This little snipper alone looks prettier than the entirety of frickig Super, and therefore probably 10x more expensive than outsourcing it to chinks or whatever the frick super did.
No, seriously, is the rest of it going to be looking like shit worse than super or what? What's the technical-economical reason of such jump? I'm certain Toei didn't suddenly go "You know we should make it actually quality again this time hehe" with no reason.
Super was coming off of the fairly well received movies and had the hype of a new, Toriyama made series.
Daima is basically the GT but because Super's reception was mixed they have to try.
Super started production in April 2015 and aired in July 2015
Daima started production back in April 2021. They learned their lesson
it's a web/short series like Sand Land, stop spamming this autistic shit about it being better than the "entirety" of Super. Fricking Girls Band Cry has better animation than the whole of dragon ball going by this moronic logic
>Stoppu sayian dat grrrreat chinakong animatos rike shittu, prease!
Yeah there are several legitimate reasons to hate GT, it's weird how history is currently being rewritten to make it seem like GT detractors were unreasonable.
That being said, I loved Super 17
>sent Piccolo to hell for eternity
>GT mogging anything
As a kid I used to go to Dragon Ball fansites of all kinds, international or otherwise reading about things like Super Saiyan 4 and Gohan having a child. When GT finally became a thing in the states it was probably the first time in my life I felt utterly disappointed by literal years of anticipation. The fight choreography was garbage, every character with Saiyan blood outside Goku is beyond useless, SSJ4 is beyond moronic and does NOTHING despite how supposedly powerful it is, and it doomed Piccolo to an eternity in hell for no fricking reason other than trying to make him pseudo-Kami... of hell. There wasn't a single GT arc I found enjoyment in and anything remotely interesting gets weighed down by bad writing, pacing and overall storytelling.
SSJ4 looks cool on paper and that's it. I like that GT actually brought back Oozaru and tails, and I like the broad strokes for the negative-energy dragonball stuff as repercussions, but boy does it all just fricking suck really badly.
Even decades after it ended it still keeps disappointing everyone
They cucked us out of Buu twice
>Hurr durr too stupid to pass a written test for some reason.
>Hurr durr he trained too hard and fell asleep
I will never not be mad.
They couldve written buu off in a better way.
>the Grand Minister homosexual guy walks up to the main dbs cast and says
>"after reviewing the universe 7 participants, Lord zeno has decided that buu is too strong and would trivialize most of the tournament, making it boring, so i ask that buu retires as soon as possible."
Or hell just having him fight. Both tournaments had ringout rules. Ya ya whatever, he's magic, he's immortal, he woukd just turn everyone into candy. You can still have him job to one of the big strong guys. He get's blown to bits, regenerates, then kicks the bad guys ass. He still loses on a technicality as one of his blobs lands outside the ring.
Plus he's vulnerable to magic. Babidi was a legitimate threat to him, and Buu only got the upper hand by tricking him and getting within inches before Babidi even realized he was in actual danger.
That's a testament to how much Toriyama hated the character.
Ya but wasn't Toyotaco running the show for super? Just seems like lazy writing to me.
Toyo was writing the manga which, at the time, was a loose adaptation of the anime, rather than the other way around. He had nothing to do with Toei's staff writing the anime. (That said, how much toriyama was involved is unclear)
I'd rather be in the earth timeline that got Jiren vs Boo for a few episodes instead of literally who #7 from universe #who gives a frick
Whoever designed that bland as frick ayy lmao should have Toriyama's old editor thrown at him.
Sure, Anon, Jiren's a bad character, just like all your favorite e-celebrity youtubers say he is!
There's nothing interesting about Jiren as a character though. He's just strong for the sake of being a strong thing to knock down. It's like Dead Fantasy but dragged out for hours
Yep! You're right again Anon!
He's totally flat and has no nuance at all!
>He's totally flat and has no nuance at all!
Glad you finally understood, otherwise you would've had to explain those nuances to me.
Well he is or at the very least his motivations are presented in a lazy way. Like when he first fights Goku he says he's, and I'm paraphrasing, searching for something beyond strength. We'll okay that was very nebulous. Wanna elaborate on that? Well no he never does. Instead we get a backstory dump in the last few episodes of the series. And not even a good one, it's just batman's backstory. Why even bother introducing El Hermano knowing full well we're never going to his universe? Why'd he even bother joining the Pride Troopers if he doesn't want to be bothered with them and thinks the concept of teamwork is an irritant? I only bring that up because Toppo was right there and was a far, FAR more interesting character. Hell I'd argue that fricking Bergamo is a more interesting character. Do you remember Bergamo? Of course you don't because he's just a jobber meant to make Goku look cool and I still think he had more going on than Jiren
It's like they were too scared to do anything without Toriyama's express approval, and his only notes for the character were "He's the strongest."
A gray alien in spandex that has the personality of black mold, what a cool concept!
Who could ever appreciate such a rushed and poorly written character?
For shame!
at least we’ll see him in action when they animate the moro arc right?
RIGHT?
It gave us Super Kinotoden 3
I had the english port of one of these but could never get into it passed button mashing. was it very deep; the combat?
Not balls deep but it has some unique qualities not found in other fighting games.
>That's some awful garbage people pretend is good too
Nah butoden 2 and 3 are pretty fun.
Butoden 3 sucks, 2 is what is at
?feature=shared
Play at 1.25
Expanding the Great Saiyaman shit in the anime was the best filler they ever made
Is this where Amerisharts pretend Frieza wasn't a massive step down from the three previous sagas?
Fighting whilst the planet Namek is literally collapsing is the coolest in the series, cope poor
i watched dbz when I was in middle school all the time and I dont remember any coherent arcs and im not sure how anyone else does either. The episodes were almost always aired out of order according to whatever the frick some dipshit on cartoon network thought the popular episodes would be to get more eyes on the ads. I vaguely remember freiza, cell, and the androids.
Why would you watch this later after you arent a kid. Is there any worthwhile thought provoking anything or kino plotlines? No, its a cartoon where they train to beat up a bad guy and up their power level and then a new bad guy appears. Its time to move on
>Stop enjoying silly things as an adult, become a jaded homosexual like me who only needs overly serious drama shit
What's your favorite anime?
Spy X Family
It aired in order for me i taped most of it off the tv
>he episodes were almost always aired out of order according to whatever the frick some dipshit on cartoon network thought the popular episodes would be to get more eyes on the ads
not true. it would cycle over and over and OVER AND OVER until the homosexuals finally translated the rest of the namek saga
also the ocean dub was WAY better than gaygimation
Because Brian Drummond is a naturally amazing voice actor. It took Christopher Sabat almost 30 years to finally nail a decent Vegeta and the tragedy of him getting good during Super is Super kind of fricking sucks as a whole.
Him and Peter were the better Vegeta and Goku
>Super dub had a fun cameo with Brian Drummond voicing the fake Vegeta
>he ends up fricking stealing the show
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Didn't they want to do something similar with Goku Black but Sean Schemmel threw a tantrum because only he gets to be Goku?
>GAAAALICK GUUUN
That's some good shit
yeah that dude was a way better vegeta for sure. I still like chris sabat well enough though.
Thought provoking stuff is lame. Just give me fights.
Every channel i've ever watched an animated series on was always in the format of
>Early evening: First they rerun the last episode, then they air the next, new one
>Early morning: Rerun of yesterday's evening
>Series ends: Either gets taken off air, or runs from the beginning again at the same time (rarely), during a different bracket, or swaps back and forth with other series
I have no fricking idea how can any channel do something else than that. Even in a year i had to spend in a LITERAL third world country it still followed the same schedule. What kind of shithole you need to live in to have random order?
In Australia, it was a morning show before school. Episodes were in order.
Fricking 9/11 happened around the time Gohan went SS2 and I hated the terrorists more for making me not get an episode and instead be stuck with that boring news footage all day long.
WATCH SHOWS ABOUT DRUG ABUSE AND GAY SEX AND HAVING GAY SEX WHILE ON DRUGS! Like a real adult!!!
the manga is great. its great through the passage of time and i love it.
You’re on a video game board in your mid 30s
Lol
The Buu/Mr. Satan shenanigans were fun. Still better than the Frieza saga which is a fricking bore and drags for too long.
>and drags for too long.
It's funny you can say this when you're talking about Buu saga. If you're talking about the anime, it was the most padded out saga out of them all. They were getting to the point where they were adapting a single chapter per episode. I literally hated Buu as a kid because it felt way too long and dragged out.
nah buu arc is great simply because it blessed us with fat buu and vagetas heel turn, and vegito. everything else not so much.
I think it's wild that Buu is still high tier just because he's moronicly durable .
Buu saga is the best and you're basically moronic.
Better than Cell or Namek...
Stop the cap
Shut the frick up, Boco.
They let up what little tard wrangling Toyotaro was under and he went and made unfiltered complete garbage, now Toei is trying to sweep it under the rug.
People take dragon ball story way too seriously. Characters like vegeta are really silly but so determined in that Kaiba kind of way that it makes the show very fun to watch. Its not something you should think of that hard, just like how you don't think that much when Kaiba is using a satellite like a ballistic missile over a card game
I still want to have sex with Erasa though
I know that quote of Toriyama saying the Buu saga made him never want to draw a battle manga again is going around but after experiencing it again via the Ganker read along, I'm pretty sure Senileyama is mixing up Cell and Buu. Buu starts leaning hard into gags again and then you have shit like Buu vs Gotenks which you can't even really call a fight, it's more like a comedy routine. Really feels like after the heavy focus on nothing but fights and editor frickery that happened with Cell, he decided that he was done and wanted to go back to his gag manga roots. It's the most comedic the series had ever been after the Red Ribbon arc.
And thats a good thing. Dragonball was always goofy.
I don't know about the manga but the anime did a good job of making buu a scary moron, like chris chan fricking his mother kind of goofy and discomfort
the stuff with buu, mr. satan and the dog is kino
I liked the buu saga because it had the best legacy of goku game. I never actually watched the show, I only experienced it through those games.
>buu arc is ba-
shut the frick up. nothing will ever top those scenes. absolute kino
kid and teen arc are kino
saiyans and furiza arc were awesome
androids were overpowered but pretty cool
cell was just dude with stolen powers
buu was just dude with stolen powers again
super was a fricking mistake
except for the super broly movie, that was kino
King piccolo is worse than ma junior arc
>Great Saiyaman as its own arc
>God tier
Based as frick, I'd move Piccolo Jr. up a tier though.
Why is the super anime still stuck at the end of tournament of power conclusion? I keep hearing a ton of shit has happened after that in the manga?
what the literal frick are they fricking waiting for
To make Daima.
The super manga doesn't even make sense because it assumes you've watched movies and other supplemental material.
>it assumes you've watched movies and other supplemental material.
I have
because the manga is so bad that an anime adaptation would flop, and it would be obvious the franchise is dead.
If there's a Kid Buu, there should be a e-girl 19
we only see Hebe 19
this is fan made right?
Heroes
hmm kind of dig her
Was 19 supposed to be Gero's other son, the one that fathered Hedo?
Toriyama said 19 was a doll Gero had in his lab.
The buu saga has some bad pacing, but is otherwise extremely well written. People who say that it's the worst in the series are just morons who self inserted as Gohan during the cell games and were mad that he wasn't the unqualified star of the buu saga. It's worth noting that the worst part of DBZ by far was everything from just after cell's appearance through the end of the cell games. Chapter after chapter of characters being fricking moronic for no reason and brazen plot contrivances. Even the fights were bad, being a series of one sided beat downs with a whopping 2 exceptions (17 vs Piccolo and Goku vs perfect cell)
>extremely well written
No. There are good elements but there is some extraordinarily bad writing in there that is done to enable fanservice rather than telling even what could be called a coherent story
>Gohan has his entire potential unleashed
>by that point he's exponentially faster in both movement and reactions than anyone else at that point. Transformations aren't even a requirement anymore
>Series has to continue for another 1/3 of its length because suddenly he can't react fast enough to catch an earring
>This entire saga is horribly written because my favorite character messed something up and didn't get to save the day
Did you miss the part where he was beaten half to death at the time
>let me just strawman some shit
Nowhere did I say or imply my favorite character was Gohan. Also even if Gohan were at a quarter of his normal strength that would still make him more than capable of catching an earring. To put it in perspective, even if you nerfed Gohan's total available power to the same level of power as Goku when he was a Super Saiyan on Namek, and then nerfed that down to a quarter of that number. That would still give him a PL 37.5 million. That's 70 times more powerful than Frieza was when he exploded Vegeta with a finger. Frieza was so powerful then that he was considered a god to his men and an actual god just wouldn't deal with him. There's no way to make that earring scene work without infecting a character with the stupid just to create an avenue for Goku to do more cool shit.
>who self inserted as Gohan
Or people who correctly fricking assumed that goku being dead for good and Gohan being the main protagonist meant that gohan would be the one to win the day and fulfill his narrative role
Stop projecting your goku lust onto others
Don't argue with Tardkugays. They're just as braindead as he is.
Cell is the most overrated arc by far, frick off and frick Gohan. Everything people complain about with Buu can be traced to Cell where the issues were often more egregious
Japan liked the original DB over Z. Thats why they're so hyped for Daima. And also why Toriyama was more enthusiastic about making it than anything in the last 15 years.
Toriyama is always excited when he gets to shit on Goku/Vegita fans. I hope the metaphor of grown up characters being stuck in the body of kids isn't lost on people.
>is
uhhhhh
Literally everything you said was made up
He's right about Toriyama being disgusted with Evolution enough to become involved again, though.
He totally overhauled Beerus' character.
After picking up some DB volumes, I can see why. The red ribbon saga alongside the Uranai Baba one are really fun to re-read and they don’t drag out like the Buu saga in Z. Also, there’s a certain charm to Goku’s character as a kid that makes you want to see him in more adventures like those.
For me, it's
Buu > Frieza > Cell > Androids > Saiyans
Yeah, well, nobody gives a frick what you think.
Goku convincing Buu to fatality babadi was kino
Toriyama didn't want to make it.
He liked the idea of Gohan taking over his dad's legacy and Goku dying as a good end for DragonBall.
Fricking weebs wouldn't let him rest, so he shat out Buu saga. Then stopped claiming his work with Dragonball was done.
The the USA made a live action abortion of his work and he started making DB Super JUST so people would focus on canon stuff again and to keep fricktards from shutting up his legacy.
Now that he is dead, I propose doing a live-action Netflix series, making all the Z fighters women, and they gain power by defying the patriarchy and being lesbians. Then slap a device around Toriyama's coffin that turns his grave spinning into a power source.
Wrong. Toriyama dropped Gohan as the protagonist because he realized it was a stupid decision. Gohan is a pussy b***h, he's not made for fighting like Goku, it was his own choice to bring Goku back
People who think gohan shouldve been the protagonist after Cell clearly havent seen/read DBZ or havent seen/read in a long time. Its obvious that gohan Fricking hates fighting and wants to become a scholar. Goku kept trying to pressure gohan to be his successsor but gohan clearly just didnt like it, its spelt out clearly during the fight with cell when Goku wanted cell to have a fair advantage (goku gave cell a senzu bean)
>Its obvious that gohan Fricking hates fighting
Made up just for the cell fight, he's been fine with it before. And the entire point of the cell fight was to show how he's accepted that role as defender of earth anyways. That's literally the point of 16 dying, the childhood innocence is gone now and it's time to accept that part of your life.
>And the entire point of the cell fight was to show how he's accepted that role as defender of earth anyways.
dude rage boosts are litterally his character. he didnt accept shit, he just got assblasted because cell got his blue cell babies to bully the other cast.
What's with the new "Cell Saga le... sux xD" narrative? Did an eceleb shit on it?
>“There are some things I can’t say but one thing I can tell you is [in] this production Akira Toriyama has been deeply involved beyond his usual capacity overseeing the original work, story, character design, and more. Additionally, [Toriyama] has planned entirely new episodes for the storyline so please look forward to the start of the series.”
>The Dragon Ball creator is said to have “meticulously” crafted new designs for familiar characters, while also aiding in the creation of new vehicle and monster designs. As pointed out by Popverse, Toriyama has largely taken a hands-off approach when it comes to the anime series since 1995. For whatever reason, he’s all in on Dragon Ball Daima, though, making the upcoming project the spinoff series he’s been most involved with in nearly 30 years. So, while baby versions of Goku and Vegeta might be off-putting at first, it helps to know Toriyama has some plans in mind. We’ll have a better idea of how it will all play out when the show premieres later next year.
https://www.escapistmagazine.com/akira-toriyama-more-involved-with-dragon-ball-daima-than-any-show-since-1995/
Dragonball is bad and I never pretended it wasn't.
Majin Boo is my husband
He looked scarier with white eyes.
Full agree, it's a better look
you mean Fat Buu, right? Super Buu would rape you every day and generally be an ass to you
I actually got around to watching the Buu arc fairly recently because I had never saw it in its entirety before. I've known the jist of it from DBZ video games, but I never actually saw how it all went. It's really is bad.
TL;DR: It's a constant escalation of power where Buu gets blown up by the current strongest hero and then regenerates himself and either wins by war of attrition or absorbs somebody at a key moment, this repeats several times. In between, there are god awful training build-ups with bad payoffs. Gohan was only stronger than Buu for ONE episode before Buu absorbs Gotenks and Piccolo and proceeds to frick Gohan up.
Which eceleb gave you that opinion homosexual?
I got bored one day and watched the entire buu arc, homosexual. I came up with the opinion on my own
it's okay up until Gohan gets his ass kicked just so Goku can come back and be the flanderized protagonist of the franchise again. it was all downhill from there. it had some great moments like seeing Gohan in school and trying to act as a father figure to Goten and Vegeta's arc was also excellent.
Do I draw Vegeta getting fricked by Fut-A18 again?
GX sucked because it was aimless nostalgia pandering for DBtards that transitioned to aimless Goku jerking
What makes Daima any different?
read the manga, the buu saga is significantly better there
I enjoyed the Buu arc because of how comedic it was, while actually enjoying the more sentimental stuff with Buu and Satan.
Then Ultimate Gohan arrives and then I was just laughing at how bad he's getting his ass kicked in a rather serious narrative tone.
I never watched any of the Dragon Ball movies before Toriyama died. Decided to watch all of them in order. Bojack Unbound is the biggest piece of dogshit I've seen come from this series. Even Granolah and Baby were better
Fusion Reborn was also pretty shit, but better than Bio-Broly and Bojack
Fusion Reborn is peak dragon ball
bojack isn't awful
bio-broloy is probably the worst thing in the entire franchise
Gogeta > Vegito
They are the same guy
Vegito < Gogeta < Nega Violet Vegito 2 < x10 Spark Energized Pickled Piccolo < Immortal Roshi (UU2)
bojack is one of the worst things the series ever made it's literally just cell games but worse in every regard. Can't understand where anyone gets off defending this shit.
>t. Abridged
Agreed, I had a DBZ themed birthday party in 4th grade, considered Future Trunks to be my personal physical ideal, and SSJ2 edge-lord Gohan to be my spirit animal, but I dropped that shit so hard in favor of Yu Yu Hakusho once the Buu saga started and then dropped YYH during the Dark Tournament in favor of Eiken
It was kino.
My ranking goes: Frieza > Saiyans > Buu > Cell Games > Android
The Cell and Android sagas were bogged down with a lot of boring shit, but they had some good moments.
The only thing Buu saga proved is that Toriyama needed a strict editor to make Dragon Ball any kind of success. Super proved it beyond a shadow of doubt because it's massively moronic and is done without oversight.
Super looks bad too
>Super looks bad too
It is bad.
Pic very related.
See, that's the funny part. Toriyama didn't do shit, he was a laid back... editor.
Toriyama only wrote rough outlines for Super, Toyotaro and Toei fricked up the details. His heaviest involvement was in Broly and Super Hero, which were leagues better than the rest of Super.
And Battle of the Gods.
>His heaviest involvement was in Broly and Super Hero
It shows because Super Broly forgot that the Earth Dragon Balls can grant more than a single wish and Super Hero literally just retreaded story beats already done (e.g. Red Ribbon revenge plan, Gohan gets his groove back). I could even get into nitpicky details like the joke about using the Dragon Balls to increase someone's height he used for Frieza in Broly is the EXACT SAME JOKE that was used for Commander Red way back when Goku was a kid.
>Super Broly forgot that the Earth Dragon Balls can grant more than a single wish
Since when? I thought only Namek's balls could grant several wishes.
Sunce cell. It was a major plot point when they brought Dende to be the guardian after Piccolo and Kami fused.
At least end of cell arc, Dende upgraded that shit since he a real namek
Since Cell. When Dende made them they could grant two. Then suddenly in Super they can grant three...never really explained that.
>in Super
They've been granting 3 since cell you moronic secondary, krillin specifically asks him to make shenron grant 3, Piccolo then asks for mass revival and then this
>you moronic secondary
What does that even mean?
>Since when?
Since Dende took over, so late Cell saga. There's a whole scene addressing it and how he makes it grant more than a single wish.
I'll excuse the height joke because it had the added bit of him wanting to only wish to be about 10 cm taller, so people wouldn't notice
Saiyan arc > Frieza arc > Buu arc >>>>>> Cell arc
Buu Saga gave us
>SSJ3 Goku
>Majin Vegeta
>SSJ3 Gotenks
>Ultimate Gohan
>Vegito
So frick you, it's great, even though the story can be all over the place at times.
The fusion characters were the best part. It would have been Gohan if he didn't job.
Buu actually kills everyone on earth and blows up the planet so i kinda like him
The fetishization of Gohan's "ultimate" power up shows how fricking shallow fans of the series are. It was as hollow and unearned as Krillin getting powered up by Guru. He didn't grow, he didn't learn anything, he didn't even admit any mistakes, he just got made super fricking strong out of nowhere so he could continue participating in the plot. Frankly, why SHOULD a character like that deserve to finish the story on his own?
tbf that's how Goku beat King Piccolo and people itt are jerking that arc off
These are both as bad I agree. I see less defenders though
This but with Bejita's senkai in Frieza saga.
>hollow and unearned
He's the only one that took Majin Buu seriously as a threat and aided Shin's plan even when he was outclassed
>B-BUT HE TOYED WITH BUU WHEN IT MATTERED
He didn't, that fight was padded out in the anime, in the manga it's a couple of panels and when Gohan goes to finish off Buu he absorbs Gotenks, Buu outsmarts the kids goading them into fusing against Piccolo's wishes, not outsmarting Gohan as everyone always loves to point out
Db fans blindly suck off beast gohan even through its unearned after jobbing and not training for so long
>I hate thing everyone hates
Got any more controversial takes?
dragon ball is a little homo
and i mean that in a positive way
they don't go overboard with it
Goku would be the happiest man alive if Frieza became his wife. Everyday would be exciting. Vegeta is boring, he's far too civilized. Goku is the kinda guy who'd want to casually exchange friendly blows with someone.
Frieza bussy is best bussy
Chichi just can't satisfy him. Sex with Frieza would be a rough battle.
Freiza calling him a monkey and bragging about killing all the saiyans, would it make Goku's cum stronger?
No. Those are just shallow words. Goku doesn't get mad or fired up over namecalling. I think Goku would be into sex if he got to wrestle for it. Getting to stick his dick into Frieza's orifice would be the pay off for a difficult battle, he'd be conditioned to love it. The few times he fricked Chichi, he had to hold back all of his power. There was nothing in it for him and he could never frick to his fullest. Frieza could withstand being squeezed and pushed hard and deeply into a mating press.
GUYS! IT'S DOBSON !
Waddup Dobson, been drawing any inflation lately?
Actually, Dobson looks better than you for at least he knew he was wrong and tried to hide it.
Don't you have oranges to sell?
QUIT POSTING SEXIST CRAP
the king piccolo arc is just a drawn out, worse version of the tao pai pai part of the red ribbon army arc
it follows the exact same structure without anything that made the tao pai pai stuff intriguing
never heard of it
dragon ball ended after Cell arc
Off topic thread is off topic.
What kind of person likes Oob?
could have been such a cool character
I never understood Tenkaichi games.
Not only the "What if" branches are usually shallow as frick, i could never understand the gameplay either. Granted, i played only Another road on PSP, but judging how similar are the rest of the games - i still don't understand how the frick do you play it.
Can someone explain to me the appeal? It's not like it's the only DB fighting game in existence.
there aren't a lot of 3D fighting games that manage to get scale right
Dbz bt3 is fun through, the battles feel entertaining and nice to play
It was good until african american Buu showed up
Is this BWAKkan Battle?
Yup, new SS3 Goku
the saga went to shit after Vegeta died.
It started well with the Great Saiyaman, sightly declined with the tournament, peaked with Maijin vegana, declined again until SSJ3 Goku where it began to plummet.
Why
Reminder that Toppo's character personality is what Toei wanted Jiren to be but Toriyama had a sperg out over it until it changed so we got a "my power is maximum" LSSJ Broly clone instead.
You know what's funny? Toppo got way more than I expected from a character in Super. When he's first presented it all JUSTICE but when we learn the stakes of the Tournament of Power we can see how it affects him. He goes home and hypes his team up but personally he's so stressed out that he needs to drink his alcohol sphere things. We learn he's a candidate to be a god of destruction but he doesn't take it. Because he knows that well separate him from the Pride Troopers which he doesn't want to do. Because he values his team. And he only bites the bullet in a moment of extreme desperation since losing here means losing everything. And even though he's way more powerful, it's still presented as a failure for him. Because he had to throw away his pride in order to win. Seriously why WASN'T Toppo the final boss of the Tournament of Power? He had everything going for him.
>Seriously why WASN'T Toppo the final boss of the Tournament of Power? He had everything going for him.
Because Toppo wasn't a real character in Toriyama's napkin drafts and wasn't slated to be the final boss. Everything, and I do mean everything, you see of Toppo's character is either Toei's or Toyotaro's attempts to give him one.
>And even though he's way more powerful, it's still presented as a failure for him. Because he had to throw away his pride in order to win
I swear Vegeta went through this same fricking shit in Z except it was a GOOD thing that he threw away his pride in order to protect people. Why is it that when Toppo does it its bad when it was the literal exact same thing Vegeta did?
Vegeta threw away his pride the day he accepted Babadi's mark. Yes I know we all love that A SAIYAN KEEPS HIS PRIDE thing but seriously he tried to throw away his family in the name of going back to where he was. Prince of all Saiyans restoring his people, finally not a slave to anyone anymore, and he thinks he's fallen off. Even Goku listens to what he has to say and calls him a fricking liar. First he implies it and then he tells him to his face. Vegeta claims to have got his family as a means to an end
>Well Goku fought for his family and it made him stronger so if I make a family then it'll be me stronger too
And maybe it started that way. But at the end of the day Bulma and Trunks are not a means to an end. He loves his family. The only thing he did with his temper tantrum is hurt them. It might sound like I'm shitting on Vegeta but I'm really not because this had to happen eventually. He's a violent man who came from a violent upbringing and he had to confront it eventually. But as much as everyone fricking loves Majin Vegeta, Majin Vegeta was rock bottom for him. And Toppo doing the same thing probably hit a sore spot for him.
Toppo is proud of his friends and defending peace
Vegeta was proud of being a mongoloid savage that destroyed entire planets worth of innocents for petty cash
I want to say "What was Toriyama thinking with Jiren?" But he wasn't thinking
that's toriyama's thing. he doesn't think he just does. it saves a lot of time. oda too
>he doesn't think he just does
>present tense
You don't know, do you?
>Reminder that Toppo's character personality is what Toei wanted Jiren to be
Wasn't Jiren almost like that in the manga?
the only good DBZ arc is saiyan
the manga version of jiren is actually somewhat interesting but the jirenbros would have a meltdown if you imply that the manga did anything better than their religion
db > dbz
Thoughts on the last canon piece of dragon ball media?
>Thoughts on the last canon piece of dragon ball media?
If Super is any indication Daima will probably be awful. One can only hope that once Toriyama died that Toei desperately scrambled to fix his nonsensical story ideas.
>child Chi-Chi and child Bulma
The verdict is "uoh"
>but its the new dolltype style of late Toriyama
Frick, cute thick leg chichi was at its best
Oh my
I love kid Chichi so much, almost as much as Pan
Buu and all his forms are my favorite, so I think it's the best
>all the build up for fat Buu to appear
>Goku vs Vegeta
>Majin Vegeta sacrifice
>Goku going ssj3 first time
>Gotenks shenanigans
>Ultimate Gohan (you moron)
>Super Vegito
>Evil Buu, Super Buu, Buutenks, Buuhan
>Hercule saving the day
It's good
adding Great Saiyaman/Gohan high school shenanigans
i want to kiss fatbuu while he talks about eating people
i want fatbuu to sit on me while he eats
>wooaaah le gohanz did le kamehaha with 1 hand and saved da world woaaa
Kys celltroony
Don't be a moron, Father Son Kamehameha is still the greatest moment in fiction.
Despite that, Buu > Cell and they're both vastly inferior to Saiyans/Namek.
>when you're at the parent teacher conference and your dad takes your side
That's been a common opinion for a while now
It introduced the dumbest character in all of Dragon Ball: Supreme Kai
It’s a good arc with heavy flaws but the problem is the manga is good and Americans only watch the garbage anime adaption of the arc
Alone it was fun in a "turn your brain off way". It just invalidates much of what DBZ had set up tonally and firmly established itself as a franchise that doesn't care at all about respecting the character development or story for anyone barring Hercule.
Frick you Buu is my favorite villain
True Dragon Ball is Gotenks fighting Buu with moronic slapstick gags, fake Dragon Ball is Gohan fighting Cell with schizo techno-rock music blaring and switching between 5 different songs in the span of 30 seconds. This is what global audiences are too cowardly to realize because they never even bothered with pre-Z Dragon Ball and don't see how Buu is a proper continuation and conclusion of the manga's roots
>tying up loose ends and passing of the torch is worse than untying and unpassing the torch
Buu saga is worse because of the Cell saga's themes and ending. Going back on every single thing the previous arc did and immediately reestablishing the status quo that was shown to be problematic before is very bad writing.
I simply love how kid Buu didn't even need to be reincarnated as Uub, the most underused character of all time, but was. What amazing loose end tying.
No one hates Dragonball more than Dragonball fans
>NOO why is the main character getting all the focus?
>NOOO how come the irrelevant human characters dont get more screen time?!
>NOOO Dragonball should have ended with king Piccolo!!
>NOO it should have ended with Frieza!
>NOOO it should have ended with Cell!!!
>NOOO GT sucks!
>NOO Super sucks!!
>NOOO why isn't Gohan the main character???
>NOOO why can’t Vegeta save the day??!
And yet you all still watch.
>NOO why is the main character getting all the focus?
>NOOO how come the irrelevant human characters dont get more screen time?!
Relevant criticism and also one of the reasons why Saiyans/Namek is the greatest part since secondary characters contribute a lot.
>NOOO GT sucks!
>NOO Super sucks!!
Also very reasonable.
Every single bit of this is the prime example of every bad faith retort to the criticism about DragonBall
>NOO why is the main character getting all the focus?
The actual problem is why is the main character exclusively getting the focus. As the series progresses the supporting cast gets to contribute less and less and their stories for all intents and purposes have stopped
>NOOO how come the irrelevant human characters dont get more screen time?!
Because they keep being brought back into the proceedings just to do nothing. Krillin has quit martial arts. Twice. If his story is over then that's fine. But don't say Tien's story is okay then bring him back just to be punched in the face and embarrassed and then put him back in his box. It's a slap in the face for everyone who grew to like that character and expect him to do something.
>NOO it should have ended with Frieza!
>NOOO it should have ended with Cell!!!
>NOOO GT sucks!
>NOO Super sucks!!
These all fall under the same problem obviously the problem shared is that later stories don't have the same heart that previous ones did. You don't see people saying that it should've stopped with the Namek saga.
>NOOO why isn't Gohan the main character???
Because the Cell saga ended with him taking Goku's mantle after Goku said he plan was to give Gohan his mantle. You'd think we could take the series at its word and expect future installments to follow up on that otherwise why say it at all?
>NOOO why can’t Vegeta save the day??!
Because Vegeta is the dueteragonist and you'd expect his accomplishments to be on par with the protagonist. And yet Vegeta exists to lose to make Goku look better
Toriyama doesn't put thought into these things. His mindset is just "Goku is the hero, he always wins! He's the main character, he always needs to save the day." That's as deep as it goes
Well there was a period of time where he did put thought into those things. You know who was the MVP of the Saiyan Saga? Fricking Yajirobe. Vegeta functionally won his fight against Goku and Krillin and Gohan couldn't hope to win. But fat ass Yajirobe made the critical save that made defeating Vegeta possible. And hell while I'm at it the mission on Namek was primarily completed by Krillin, Gohan, and Vegeta. Namek was a legit 3 way race to get the DragonBalls and Krillin was there to revive Piccolo to restore Earth's DragonBalls. Which he did. Goku was mostly there as a beater to fight Frieza and enable everyone's escape. Not discounting Goku in that fight, that fight is all anyone remembers of Namek. But it wasn't just him doing everything. Vegeta going Rambo on Namek was fricking cool and probably what sold everyone on Vegeta being a secondary main character.
yeah he gave up after frieza, in every interview he readily admits that his true passions are jacking off and cars
>>NOO why is the main character getting all the focus?
>>NOOO how come the irrelevant human characters dont get more screen time?!
me but with naruto
The power creep in Naruto got so out of control so fast. At the start of the series I could understand why the Sharingan and Byuakugan were rival eye powers. Being able to cast and see through illusions and with such clarity that you could mimick things after seeing it once could go head to head with being able to see 359 degrees and with x-ray vision. Both of those abilities were broken as frick but not so broken that they couldn't be fought against, just very difficult. But as the series progressed the Sharingan not only gained the ability to summon gundam ghost mechs but also create savestates in reality and open portals to other dimensions. Why did Kishimoto do it?
The Byakugan was still really strong. Remember that one rogue Hyuuga almost 2v1d Shisui and Itachi by doing dumb shit like counter-spelling a fireball by poking it until Shisui got an about-to-die power up.
Kishi was always a hack, the early part of the manga was wrangled by his editor to make it about ninja politics and espionage. If Kishi had had his way, Naruto would've been a literal sentient fox and there would've been magical kaiju battles from the very start. You can pinpoint exactly where Naruto got popular enough that he was let off the leash and allowed to do what he wanted without oversight: the Chuunin Exams arc.
>NOOO how dare you ask for other characters to get focus instead of consooming 200 episodes of soulless goku and vegeta beating up a bad guy then again and again??!
I've seen this argument used a lot lately by normalgays who enjoyed the Fallout show and never played a single game (except possibly 3 or 4) to justify attacking fans of the older games.
I like some arcs more than others. So what? That doesn't mean I hate Dragon Ball.
Even in Kai the pacing sucked. They could have at least cut 10 episodes of Supreme Kai acting like a moron.
Its nice too have normal DB threads.
Unlike those morons in Ganker.
Gohangays are the worst
Toriyama's problem has always been character focus, the Buu saga didn't know what it wanted to do and he left Super as a whole with the same problem.
>Buu
>Beast Gohan
>Orange Picollo
>Goten and Trunks
>Broly
>Perfected Ultra Instict
>Ultra Ego
All need character development and realistically only Goku and Vegeta are going to get it. I don't know why the frick Toriyama thought bringing Broly into the main cast was a good idea when he has no chance for development and needs his personality re-written through character development he's never going to get to be anything other than unga bunga. Fricker should have stayed on that planet and just lived a peaceful life.
I still don't know what the frick Goten is even supposed to be. Trunks is obviously being groomed to take over for Bulma while having his father's more aggressive personality. And I guess that sort of shows in his friendship with Goten with Trunks taking the lead whenever they interact. But Goten barely even exists as a character. He's super polite... and that's it.
What Toriyama should've done is had Goku sit out the Androids Saga and let the other Z Fighters deal with it so they get their own character development and closure. Have Gohan fill the gap. Maybe justify it by having Goku tracing the Saiyan legacy across the galaxy to learn more about his people and clean up the mess that Frieza left.
A good lower-stakes saga so the group who got left behind by Goku get a chance to shine.
The problem with Broly is Toriyama said he is the strongest in the universe when he masters ki control.
And…then what? He’s training with Goku and Vegeta so obviously he’ll learn to master it pretty quickly. There’s no reason for anything to be a threat anymore when Broly should be able to handle everything from now on
Heck even Beast Gohan
>they brought back the great ape transformation all the way from the saiyan saga
Callback kino
Hunt for the Dragon Balls was cute and funny but overall flat
21st WT was more of the same until the final fight which was when Toriyama finally started to understand what direction to take the series in
Red Ribbon Army is peak DB. Fun unique fights, most of the gags hit, memorable characters like Tao Pai Pai and Korin, just really great action and humor all around
22nd WT was more of the same except Toriyama really picked up in the storytelling department and action scenes
King Piccolo was a little flat, not as good as the previous arcs but still had really high moments
23rd WT was a great way to end Goku’s journey as the world’s strongest. Nothing more I could say. Goku vs Piccolo is my favorite fight
Saiyan arc was phenomenal with its storytelling, emotional beats, and action packed fights. The best of what the franchise has to offer
Namek arc was pretty good. Vegeta was at his peak here, Ginyu Force was great, Freeza is FREEZA, Super Saiyan changed THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY, what could I even say? Freeza’s fight is a bit long but it also plays into this indestructible force that he presents to our heroes
Android arc starts out with some really amazing stuff, lots of highs. But halfway through it becomes bogged down by plot convinences, characters acting moronic to advance the plot, and mediocre fights. The Cell Games is very boring and while SSJ2 Gohan is a great payoff, he doesn’t really do anything the entire arc and feels underwhelming. Goku’s sacrifice and the beam struggle are amazing tho
Buu arc changes up the formula by returning to Dr Slump’s style of more slice of life and being gag heavy. This is an amazing return to form and Toriyama really shines here. Buu and Gotenks are just…amazing. The arc is at its worst when it tries to be like Dragon Ball Z ironically. Everyone vs Kid Buu is the best fight in the series.
GT and Super aren’t worth mentioning. BoG was great. RoF was trash. Broly and Super Hero were great.
I have faith Daima will be good.
It hurts that the series will be unfinished. We will never know Nameless Namekian true purpose and see Picollo split from Nail, as it was foreshadowed.
>we will never know who the original super Saiyan god was
>or how/why Zalama created the dragon balls
>or finally see Toriyama’s vision of Goku surpassing Beerus and having a rematch
>or see that solo Vegeta movie he mentioned about doing
>or what his plans were with Broly, Gohan, and Piccolo now that they’re the strongest heroes
>or what his post End of Z plans were now that Super Hero was the final point before it
The one silver of hope was that they said he was working on multiple unannounced projects before he passed. Maybe he left an outline for the next couple years of Dragon Ball…
I mean you say that but we don't know how far the outlines for the manga go.
>toyohacko manga
I will never accept that fraud writing, tracing, bad anatomy, loser as a “successor”for Dragon Ball
Damn dude hasn’t even made a tribute to Toriyama yet. Every other manga author under the sun did but not Toyo huh? Guess taking a month off the manga isn’t enough time…
Most likely Sasuke, Toriyama’s son, will be in charge of most Dragon Ball projects (excluding anime stuff, which is in that one guy’s hands who I can’t remember) from now on since it seems like he was being propped up by his pops when he handled Super Hero
What if he wrote down a script of the future db ideas and things he was leading up to?
Really good for world building, the characters are also great. The pacing was horrible, thought.
because they have garbage taste
Funi Falcouner Dub > Ocean Dub 1st 60 eps > Kai Dub > Jap version
>people need to respect Vegeta more, this moronic as frick "jobber" meme when he's killed more people than Goku is not funny, the dude also helped finish off both Cell and Buu by distracting them yet nobody seems to remember that part. Shounentards learning from WWEhomosexuals was the worst thing to ever happen around here
they need to kill off goku and bejita already, give the series to gohan already. if anyone disagrees then tell me why? you could go so many different interesting routes with gohan as the lead
South American hands typed this post.
Gohan is not a replacement for Goku
I like Gohan but he should be his own character. I don't want a Goku lite. There's a reason why Toriyama brought back Goku for the Buu saga.
Basado
I don't hate the Buu saga, but everything from Fat Buu getting ate to Kid Buu is complete pointless nonsense
>Legendary sword that means nothing introduced
>Potential unleashed introduced, doesnt do much
>Fusion introduced literally out of nowhere
>Fusion 2 introduced even more out of nowhere
>Every fight with Super Buu is just beating his ass until he gets an instakill in because he doesn't take damage, the Gotenks fight was ok but meaningless
Kid Buu's not all that interesting as a villain but the fight was rad
Hate everything about Super Buu
So you're basically just mad that they didn't have an asspull like SS and SS2 before it.
All the powerups (especially fusions) were MASSIVE asspulls that just don't get called out as such like SSJ because they didn't fricking accomplish anything
>Won't be in Daipa
>Sparking zero will likely have his Cell/Buu arc outfits
Things are looking up for Tenshinhan
>Hate everything about Super Buu
Base Super Buu was great, and still retained the personality of Fat Buu. He was very smart, what pisses me off more is him being okay with killing Mr Satan after he absorbs Gotenks. The inner conflict of Buu was interesting, but it was dropped really fast.
So Fat Buu and/or Super Buu was supposed to be murked early on then?
Does it tread too close to Cell Saga then?
No I'd just have preferred there not be a conga line of powerups that only served to job to Buu
>No I'd just have preferred there not be a conga line of powerups
The same shit happens in Cell.
Three androids being stronger than the entire cast after years of training just because, and Cell becoming strong enough to fight them after eating tons of people within like a week is the same shit. Vegeta getting his ass kicked just to have the Hyperbolic Time Chamber come out of nowhere to become "Super Vegeta" is the same thing. Neutering Gohan as if the Recoome fight never happened so he could go SSJ2 is the same thing.
It just sugarcoats it all with a serious tone instead of playing up the absurdity of it.
Android saga at least did a good job by finding a reason for Goku to be out of commision for a time so orhers would step up to the plate.
Oh yeah random heart virus from literally nowhere is such a good reason compared to being literally dead with a limited amount of time on earth which was established in DB years before.
Objection! Its not random, its entirely plausible that goku picked up a virus on Planet Yardrat.
It's a human virus, dipshit. It's not from Yardrat not to mention that would mean it took 4 years to manifest.
Not to mention, Goku and his family practically live in seclusion feeding off of the land, catching fish and eating Dino meat and for three years before the androids showed up they were training with Piccolo. Where and how would Goku contract a heart virus without his family also getting it? The, like, half an hour they spent in the city looking for the androids because that's one hell of a fast acting virus.
Goku cannot be kept off Earth. He doesnt care about your time limits or feelings.
I will give Toriyama points for that because it still plays up the enlightened warrior aspect he demonstrated at Namek.
I've got no qualms about introducing stronger villains or having the villain gaining powerups (especially since that's basically the entire driving force of that arc.)
The time chamber was some bullshit though I agree there
>The time chamber was some bullshit though I agree there
I never had an issue with it because it was only useful once for a fighter instead of something you could abuse.
>I've got no qualms about introducing stronger villains
I do because then Gero is just being a fricking idiot using the weakest tech he has to kill Goku off the bat and everyone getting slight design changes to emphasize their supposed powerup.
Piccolo being the most glaring one since he visually doesn't change at all.
17/18 refused to listen to him and wanted to kill him
Cell took over 20+ years to be finished and Gero wasn’t waiting for that
Although you could argue he should’ve used Android 16 instead of 19 since he seemed loyal and would kill Goku
The thing I have an issue with is that 16 could have killed everyone. and that with no explanation at all, Gero gives himself a body weaker than 16 and goes into battle with it.
My entire problem with the androids is that Gero had capable tech the entire god damn time and never uses, and all the saiyans go through a barbie haircut marathon trying to beat them.
Because of how 17/18 reacted to his infinite energy he may have been scared it would’ve messed up his mind
This is about 16 being the strongest one, not 17 or 18.
Gero was afraid of becoming a cyborg like 17 and 18 because the nano machines can destroy a persons mind. The future androids were crazed killers with no humanity because the nanotech took over. 16 is infinite energy like 17 and 18 but he was never a human to begin with so there's no issue.
None of that is ever stated in the manga.
Toriyama explained how 17 and 18's infinite energy worked and why Gero was afraid of becoming one in an interview years ago. 17 and 18 are just regular people with nano machines in/around their cells and an infinite energy core. He explained how cyborgs like that can "lose one's self."
Reminder Gohan
>disappointed everyone by not training during the 7 years and becoming weak
>jobbed against Dabura
>jobbed so hard against Buu everyone thought he was still dead even after they wished everyone who died to come back KEKAROOOO
>spent hours waving a dumb sword around only to job it against a rock
>sat down for a day and become the strongest, only to come back and almost immediately start jobbing to Buu again
>says he’s a self proclaimed scholar yet BUU, THE MAN HE CALLED A moron, OUTSMARTED HIM
>jobbed so bad Elder Kai decided to kill himself so Goku could come back and become the MC again
>JOBBED TO THE ICONIC PIC RELATED
>in the end, became nothing but fusion fodder for Buu
People always ask how come Goku and Vegeta didn’t wish for Gohan to come with them so he could finish Kid Buu and it’s like…would YOU trust Gohan to not somehow job again after his performance all arc?
Why are you acting like Goku wouldn't have made the same stupid mistake Gohan made in pic related?
>G-Goku totally would’ve dropped the earrings too! I-I know I’m right!
Gokek was the same guy who forgot to bring the seal for the Mafuba and Senzu beans.
>starts mentioning fanfic stuff from a fanfic series to justify his headcanon from the original manga
>Gokek was the same guy who forgot to bring the seal for the Mafuba
Fun fact, it was Roshi who forgot to give it to them.
>TURDnga
We are talking about CANON not fanfiction.
Yeah, which would mean the super anime, where Roshi forgot to give them the seal.
Goku was the one who forgot it in the anime. In the manga Roshi gave him a cupon instead of the actual seal.
Roshi forgets to give it to Goku in the anime too.
That's consistent between both, the only difference is that Goku gets the coupon in the manga.
>Took Super over a hundred and thirty episodes and a movie to have a good art style and animation
>Daima has it immediately outta the gate in the first two teasers
OH NONONONONO
>Having the audacity to deage Goku when it almost killed Dragon Ball with SHIT tour
>Its not canon because I don't like
KWAB.
Why are they kids again? Is this more GT nonsense?
A demon from the demon realm cursed them into chibi forms so now they have to go explore the demon realm to find a way to undo it
>dragon balls
Cannot undo the curse if it was out by somehow stronger than their creator, and Dende is a massive jobber
So its GT 2?
No
The only similarity is Goku is a kid
>Daima de-ages Goku in an attempt to lower the power levels and make it more like the original Dragonball
>"n-n-no it's n-not like GT"
Yes that’s what I said, idiot
Dragon Ball fans will justify it because "new thing good"
More like GT but with original ideas.
GT is just as good as the buu saga if not better
This used to be an actual debate back in the day kek.
Truth nvke
I miss the days when SSJ3 was the strongest form
Spopovich vs Videl is the funniest fight ever because it serves no purpose at all.
Why was the beatdown so long, Jesus Christ
He broke her teeth in the manga Toriyama must have been pissed off
It shows the power difference between normal humans and the rest of the cast.
it's also for coomers that like hearing women in pain as no one comes to save them
Wasnt the beatdown scene meant to be an allegory for rape or smthn?
It was pretty good up until the entire thing ground to a fricking halt so Gotenks could be a moron and Gohan could be a moron and Goku could be Goku and
Although I did find parts of it quite enjoyable.
The first half is pretty damn good frick everything else though
Based
Honestly, that's just because the anime extended a bunch of shit.
Yeah, I've been trying to get through it for 8 years. I have a few episodes to go its just so uninteresting
The fights stop being interesting when you know the fusions do nothing and everyone that isn't Goku will job to Buu. It doesn't help that it drags on for way too long.
>It doesn't help that it drags on for way too long
One thing the Buu arc fricked up in a big way was not having henchmen for the other characters.
Buu was a great villain because it was fun to have a strong moron as the bad guy instead of another faux british frickboy making speeches like Cell and Frieza
Cell really shouldn't have existed, he was such a boring character.
Cell stopped being cool once he became Perfect, Imperfect was peak
Tell me about it. Imagine if he was just a character who skulked in the darkness and hunted people the entire arc, including the non essential Z fighters like Yamcha and Tien, which is where he would get the Kamehameha, solar flare and so on, instead of evolving into not Frieza he had a Cell X style form from the get go.
Call me a contrarian but I like semi perfect
I don't see how everyone thinks he looks stupid, he looks withered, like degenerating clone.
>thought imperfect Cell looked cool
>was disappointed to his more humanlike features with Semi-Perfect, but still looked enough of a monster that I let it slide
>become utterly bored and disappointed with Cell the moment he became Perfect
It was so much more entertaining when Cell looked the part of a monster. Then his face and physique become more human and I just checked out from there. I had the same reaction when Frieza looked like a horn freak of nature each time he transformed only to take all that away with the final form.
I dislike that he loses his wings then grows them back. The second form should've kept them.
Cell was infinitely more interesting in his 1st form.
I also like Janemba
Also, what were Toei thinking by not changing the opening when Gohan was no longer the main character? We gotta power was played until the end of Z.
it started out fine but after 5000 episodes it got really tired.
Gogeta is the only fusion to actually get shit done.
I'm still mad that Janemba isn't canon, easily the coolest design to come out of the movies.
The problem is people treat Buu like Cell, a serious dramatic story when it’s very clearly just having fun
>when it’s very clearly just having fun
Buu has the most gore in the series.
And that is funny!
>That one moment where Toriyama had that granny get headshotted
Jesus
Dragon Ball was never that serious to begin with. It seems that people with no interests outside of watching cartoons wants their entertainment to be more sophisticated than it really is.
>best scene in all Dragon Ball history comes from a shitty movie
Tell me you’re underage without telling me
Right idea, wrong movie
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What's a good saga?
the Great Saiyaman
The Sayan saga handled stakes well. The Namek Saga is the epitome of the series, even if the Spirit Bomb took forever to come out in the anime, Goku grieving over Krillin and achieving Super Sayian cannot be topped.
Namek until they start fighting frieza
It could've been good.
>babidi wants to awake buu
>dabura pretends that he is under his control
>buu is awakened and it turns out he's just a fat moronic child
>dabura kills babidi and takes control of buu
>buu never changes forms
>janemba and other demons join dabura
>only (ONE) type of fusion, the dance
>the human characters even fuse
>the whole cast fights the hell demons
>eventually buu joins the good side and uses his magic powers along with mr satan to stop dabura
Better than a rehash of the Cell arc.
Freiza looking like a snack
That's basically moro and it was awful.
Also how exactly was a rehash of Cell?
>mysterious youth with blue and purple color scheme warns that an evil old guy is going to unleash his monster(s)
>they try to stop him but bungle it due to stupidity
>the monster appears harmless at first, but gets absorbed by a bigger evil
>can regenerate and absorb people
>reverts to a weaker form in the end and tries to blow itself up
God, imagine being Trunks and hearing all these stories from your mom about how cool and aloof your dad is, then you go back and meet him and it turns out he's a manlet with anger issues and an ego bigger than his widow's peak.
youth with blue and purple color scheme warns that an evil old guy is going to unleash his monster(s)
This is literally the closest thing to a similarity that you have and it came after the saiyaman miniarc and happened during a tournament and not in the middle of nowhere.
>they try to stop him but bungle it due to stupidity
That's only true for Cell since they were stopped by a door of all things. In the buu saga Vegeta threatens innocents to get Goku to fight giving him an ultimatum rather than something they could face just blasted down.
>the monster appears harmless at first, but gets absorbed by a bigger evil
Except buu being eaten by Buu is still just buu, it's not like babidi or dabura were absorbed.
Not to mention the first thing he androids did was kill gero so they were anything but harmless from the get go.
>can regenerate and absorb people
Buu's regeneration functions in a completely different fashion to Cell's which is Namekian unless you're trying to say he can regenerate from smoke or any of the other body altering feats buu had.
>reverts to a weaker form in the end and tries to blow itself up
Buu reverts to a weaker form and does blow up the earth and continues the battle in that form with a bunch of unorthodox moves and abilities.
Cell reverts to a weaker form, fails to blow up the earth and returns in an even stronger one ending it with an ordinary beam struggle.
Being reductionist as hell doesn't prove your point.
Disingenuous wall of text, tl;dr.
Buu is obvious copypaste of androids/cell just with toriyama's unfunny shite gag humor thrown in.
I just explained how it isn't in both setting and execution. Don't like it? You can just piss your pants about it.
The fact Kaioshin wasn't tortured enough or better kille, for being such a frick up is a crime frick that character. He helped out Babidi more than aiding the Z fighters let that sink in.
Killed*
Japs are pedos.
Why the frick does the rest of "Pedo" (Translation: I think of sex when i see children in a show) series in japan still follows the cheapskit ideology then? You would think everything starring children would look that good in this case.
>He helped out Babidi more than aiding the Z fighters let that sink in.
I mean, not really. He let Spopovich and Yamu drain Gohan just to find out the location of their base which was necessary after that it was Goku and Vegeta that fricked everything over.
> just to find out the location of their base
He should already know where their base will be since it's obviously going to be where they sealed Buu. Not to mention they checked the area where the ship was hiding and didn't noticed the freaking "M" symbol on it.
Where Buu wasn't the same location if I recall right. Babidi moved him somewhere else.
>Not to mention they checked the area where the ship was hiding and didn't noticed the freaking "M" symbol on it.
Gee, it's almost as if it was underground when they had checked.
Do you people even know how to read?
It wasn't necessary why didn't he beat up Spopo and Yamu to force them to tell him the location, or have Baba use her Crystal or the fricking Dragon Balls something the highest ranked deity had no idea existed.
>A god should just beat the shit out of mortals for info or use mortal created magic wish-granting tools for info
you're just spouting off whatever now, huh?
>Just leave the henchmen of Babidi alone and allow them to get a ton of energy for free!
TARDshin typed this.
you said that already, homosexual, and you were also already corrected on the whole Babidi thing. the fricker used magic to hide his base from Shin and Kibito. The guy risked his life trying to find a dying Gohan yet you spreg the frick out over a little energy drain when it was Goku and Vegeta's fight that awoke Buu.
>It wasn't necessary why didn't he beat up Spopo and Yamu to force them to tell him the location
Ignoring the fact that it's a god beating up humans Babidi can monitor them and blow them up.
The whole buu saga could've been avoided if he wasn't such a moron who saw a house with maijin symbol and though "hmmm I guess Babidi isn't here!". Also why wouldn't he know where Buu is buried since he helped bury him?
Babidi knew Shin was on Earth and hid his ship until Yamu and Spopovitch returned
And Shin said Babidi had moved the shell when he came to Earth
The fact Piccolo has to bend the knee for that homosexual pisses me off.
>Coolest Bejita moment
>Bad
Kill your fricking self
vegeta sacrifice is db peak
>Vegeta betrayal is db peak
FTFY
yes his midlife crisis is peak db
Vegeta hugging Trunks made me tear up.
read the manga version of buu saga and i like it more than cell saga. Sorry! it doesnt take itself seriously and aims for a more comedic approach than the rest of DBZ.
>I read the manga version
The buu saga is when toriyama's manga art turned into shitty chicken scratches kek.
Buu is so objectively bad that I had to reply to bait.
stop samegayging Ganker troony
Almost!
Why didn't Beerus ever step in to stop Buu's rampages?
>In universe
Not his job
>Out
Not canon yet
He was having dreams about gay sex with goku
Sleeping or wasn’t a God yet
>stop the guy doing your job for you
>for free
Saiyan saga>Frieza saga>Buu saga>Cell saga
The buu saga is peak Dragon ball,
just like Thriller bark is peak One piece.
Not my problem if you and the normie are moronic
Foxxy is peak One Piece you fricking tertiary
Cell = Saiyan>Namek>Buu
why didn't BEJITA unlock super saiyan when he was getting his ass raped so hard by freeza he started crying from sheer frustration?
He didn't go to the super saiyan bargain bin
Because super saiyan works best with someone who is pure of heart. And being booty blasted that you're getting fricked, again, isn't the same as seeing everyone you love get hurt
>Pure of heart
That means pure in intentions, not a hero.
Probably because he had too much shit on his mind
>Be the prince
>Be more powerful than some lowly dipshit
>Stop being frieza's b***h
>Become immortal
So his intentions weren't really pure since he was extremely unfocused. If all he cared about was just one of those things, say, being the strongest saiyan, then he probably would have become SSJ back when Goku went Kaioken against him.
The buu saga is great and you are a troony if you disagree.
No
>all the JOBeta seethe itt
LMAO
goku and gohan jobbed more
False
Jannies?
Ore-wa SUPA BEJIT-ACK