>The game has been incredibly well received, and it’s great that there’s so much passion – the scope of the project has grown, so please bear with us.
This cannot be happening. Everyone told me TOW was a flop
>The game has been incredibly well received, and its great that theres so much passion the scope of the project has grown, so please bear...
You now realize /tg/ is full of schizos trying to wish their delusions into reality
Fantasy is a weird game. The scale doesn't really work for what it's meant to be portraying but it's really fun to play.
you're supposed to line up 4 tables and play 4 different armies, duh
as one person?
That would be awesome. But I'm not buying an army unless I can get 3 friends to do it. Also I'm fricking broke.
It kinda is 2bh, like a mass-battle game but played at a skirmish scale.
The few games Ive played have been fun though
Pretty much.
The scale might make the battles unsensible/unrealistic, but it gives much more character and significance to every single model, which makes both the narrative aspect and painting aspect much more fun. It's a good trade in my opinion
I like to think of my battles as just a snapshot of a much larger battle taking place. Like there's a whole front with thousands of troops but my table is just one small part of that battle.
Yeah, that's how I've always felt about it. Or as a small skirmish between two large warbands.
This is what TOW felt like it doubled down on for me.
I don't feel like I'm making My Dudes and building up a part of the world, but goddamn is it fun to actually make lists and play.
>I don't feel like I'm making My Dudes and building up a part of the world
But you are? The sigmargay idea of "my dudes" is stupid because people use that as license to do deviantart 2005-tier garbage OCs like Blue Orcs. Settings work better when you've got some leeway but are discouraged from going full moron.
spot on.
all the edition of the game over played have been fun (but there ere much better games out there). and its main strength is obviously the ease to find players for.
but for the type of game it wants to be 15mm would have been a much better scale. small enough for truly massive armies (and much more affordable) but big enough for individual care and attention to each model.
it also doesn't help that in my 20 years of hobby I've only encountered 3 people that did not recoil in horror at the thought of a non pitch battle game, a battle between unbalanced forces (and I'm always ok being the smaller one) and/or alternative win conditions.
15-20mm is awesome for detail
10-12 is aweome for volume
Plus...when you get smaller you can start using terraun from the next scale down (like 6m-8mm) and really build it up
But that's not warhamming and I would suggest multibasing at that point not using figure removal. It works well but people want hams, war etc
Still waiting for 40k authors to figure out battleshock
You do know you can just play WFB with 15mm models right? You don't even need to change the mechanics, just mount multiple 15mm models on each base - with TOW sizes you could probably fit 6-9 of them on each - and use 15mm terrain.
but that's... exactly what i was saying (?)
If you trace it back to the ancestral wargames rules pamphlets (written on mammoth skin), it all comes down to a figure being worth about 20-30 men because then that meant a box of Airfix (or whichever) figures back then gave you 2 or 3 cohorts/battalions/whatever, and so every subsequent ruleset and derivative is geared around the 16-20 figure unit because that's then everyone's collection.
Honestly Warmaster unironically fixes the scale issue pretty well and is pretty fun too if it's that big of a problem.
I fricking wish people played this outside of obscure corners of the UK. It's the system I want to play but I don't really want to buy and paint up 2 Warmaster armies in the feint hope someone at my LGS will play, like it and collect too.
It's unironically an amazing system. The warmaster revolution community is the model of what you want for an obscure game. It's an absolute who's who of options, you can play Araby, Albion, Nippon, Dogs of war and NORSE of all things (Not Norsca, the OG Iteration of Norse just being fantasy vikings) on top of all the armies you'd expect. Each army also has at least 1 full 3d printable model range AND all the rules are completely free on their website (https://www.wm-revolution.com/)
It's so good, as you said i wish more people played it.
I actually played this at a local grog con in February! Seriously fun game. I can't believe a system can be so simple but was just so naturally fun. I plan to start a WoC army one day when I finish my Epic army.
>heh... im a REAL groggie....
>no way.... I'M the real groggie...
Losers
Was this that one OH in the NW event in Jersey? I couldn't come, but I heard it was fantastic. I heard some guys were there playing 3e WFB too.
Where can I find 3d files for armies?
https://wakesemporium.gumroad.com/
https://minirat.gumroad.com/
https://greenskinsminiatures.gumroad.com/
https://forestdragon.gumroad.com/
Warmaster is whack AF, not sure why it's pushed here, assume it's people who don't play historicals and are bowled over by issuing orders lol. It feels mostly contourless and atritional
Begone homosexual it does the actual job of being a wargame and not a pathetic glorified skirmish that 28mm warhammer is (a 'regiment' of 16 dudes lmao)
>what is abstraction
>what are superior small scale Fantasy games like Fantastic Battles
No, really, it has zero flavour and is largely about keeping your general in shouting distance. If the furthest you managed to get from Nottingham was this, you failed lol
That's a good thing. "big" warmaster battles full of a billion rows of the exact same tiny low detail mooks are soulless and look shit, sure it's technically 4000 men on the field not like 70 but it looks like...nothing just squares with vague humanoid shapes. LITERALLY just play Total war
I want my lovingly crafted custom made heroes, cool unit champs with a headswap or extra unique weapon, a command and banner/BSB you can actually see with effort put into the banner detail etc.
t. someone who has never seen a 10mm figure in his life.
These aren't 2mm or 3mm strips anon, 10mm figures are detailed just fine and look great on the table, even individually based. I guess burgers just have poor eyesight? idk.
that plus if one wanted to play actual warhammer with individual model removal even 15 or 18mm would be infinitely better for the game than the current scale.
Oh absolutely. I'm a big fan of Minihammer (though I do kind of judge the peeps who go down to 6mm with it, that's a bit too smol for individual bases imo). I work in 10mm, but I've seen 15mm warhammer and it also just looks so much nicer than these honking huge 28's. 28's are for skirmishin, not for rankin.
I play with Warmaster sized minis that occupy the same space whfb units do. That way it feels great and the ranges look more realistic as well.
For whfb minis I play a ton of Mordheim
Many AoS fans are still badly buckbroken over SELLING FAST!, so they were pretty desperate to insist TOW flopped.
A lot of posters on /tg/ just hate everything GW/Warhammer on principle, so wanted it to flop as part of their hate-fandom.
And GW themselves have fricked around with their delivery of the project, giving enough grounding for the above groups to convince people more on the fence. Just look at the back and forth they did with Kislev and Cathay and it's obvious that the planned scope of TOW has changed behind the scenes a lot in the time before it came to market.
Aosg has 0 talk about tow apart from the usual shitters showing up with their weak bait, ie (you)
>meanwhile in wfg
Picrel
T. Played 4th and 5th wfb, played albion, played siege, played big hat chorfs, played dogs of war, thinks aos is a far better game than wfb ever was but doesn't give 2 shits what people play
>It's another case of a zoomer shithead masquerading as a grog
Many such cases.
Or, you're one of those who gave up, started eating the shit sandwich that is AoS, and can't now admit that you bet on the wrong horse. No one believes you. The lore is objectively completely nonsensical trash, the models are overdesigned garbage, and the system is mediocre at best.
Nope, started with 2nd ed 40k then moved into wfb with the 4th ed starter, played titanicus, man o war, necromunda, gorkamorka, bfg, bought the citadel journal, inferno and warhammer monthly, xenology, dark millenium and liber chaotica, my first wd was the one after mike mcvey's horus diorama, played the original full tilt, played that wd game with the orcs having a bar fight, followed the original tale of 4 gamers with fat bloke going to store openings to get 3 for 2 offers for his beastmen, circled bitz in the back pages for conversions and called the mail order trolls to ask about an eldar army deal in the days before they added the extra 1 to our phone numbers, went to the london store to see the life size blood angel statue, ran a 1500 point khorne chaos warrior army that consisted of the original 12 warrior regiment box, 5 knights and a mounted lord of khorne with the hydra sword, deployed drop pods in 3rd by holding pieces of paper over the table and dropping them, played in ichar 4 and the battle of armageddon, scoured over pics of the complete ultramarine chapter and the orks attacking guard mega displays, felt disgusted at nigel stillman's polyfilla basing on his brettonians and his inability to do it smoothly, had the metal necron, the mordheim elf, the first sisters of battle, metal kits that came in foam trays, smelly primer, chestnut ink, goblin green, vomit brown, gluing my metal war walker back together after every game. I legitimately got my first pc because they ran a contest in wd to win one of 5 copies of shadow of the horned rat or second place was the fantasy boxed set and when I entered I asked for that instead if I came first and they actually sent me the pc game, all that og grog shit you weren't there for and can only try to replicate vicariously, and I have no problem saying aos is a better ruleset than fantasy.
You used too many made up details for your story to be a believable blogpost.
Don't bother friend, nobody on this site who makes
>let me guess, you're just like that strawman I made up
or
>it doesn't fit my extreme view on the matter, so you're lying
kinds of posts is worth replying to, they will just stick to their delusion no matter what you say
So you're just senile then, gotcha, because nobody who actually experienced those things could arrive at that conclusion without some form of degenerative brain damage.
>t. actually did experience the same period and don't have degenerative brain damage
>t. Experienced that period and the intervening years but didn't use it to develop any taste, wisdom or critical analysis skills
Be honest, you wear black metal tees and cargo shorts don't you
kek, and you had some morons here who unironically, hand on heart believed that postponing Kislev meant GW was reducing the scope because TOW "flopped", when it was clearer than daylight the exact opposite was true. Sigshitter tears will never stop tasting so good
that was obviously a troll, sad people actually fell for it and actually talked about it
Still Weird that GW chose to preview Kislev before deciding to cut them.
>unquestioned acceptance of obvious marketing speaking
Do zoomies really?
I was incredible well received. People are buying books and models like crazy - and playing it furiously. Many old players are coming back. Youtubers are uploading batreps and they are popular by viewers. TOW is a great success whenever you like it or not.
In hindsight I'm wondering if they were trying the "new coke" strategy with Aos and then bringing back fantasy
I mean, they definitely didn't intend to make AoS bad or poorly received, but laying off a product that stopped selling well (as Fantasy apparently did) for a few years to increase demand and then reintroducing it sounds like a sound business idea. I think it's possible they were already considering an eventual comeback when they were cancelling WHFB
I mean, regardless of the actual success or lack of thereof, why would you expect them to say anything other than that in a public community post, especially when the game is still very early in its life cycle?
I am not interested in TOW personally but it's awesome if it stays around and grows, barrier of entry feels a bit high for my skills and budget right now but I reckon in maybe a year or two when more kits sre in circulation who knows.
That being swid I'm as like as not gonna mount em on washers so they work with all my other 28mms. 25s, 30s, 40s 50s maybe. Plus you drop a guy he usually lands standing up
If it turns into a clusterfrick like 40k ah salud I can use the minis for rpgs
Outside of their dedicated generals, assume everyone who does AoS vs ToW threads are the kind of people who start up console war threads on Ganker. They don't play games. They don't paint models. They get a dopamine hit everything they type out Smegmar or "Oh no ToW sisters." aka using the exact same type of speech they do when b***hing about whatever the frick Sony is up to on any particular day.
I think its kinda odd becasue at the end of the day you are still powering Games Workshop. It saddens me for years we had multiple fantasy alternatives but they are good as dead with ToW back.
GW will never die their biggest haters and detractors here are their biggest fanboys
>It saddens me for years we had multiple fantasy alternatives but they are good as dead with ToW back.
this here is the worst part of it all.
I cannot understand for the life of me how the same people I've been pestering for years to play a game all of a sudden decided they're allowed to play again.
I'd invite them over since I have the table and the terrain but nothing. now that TOW is here they're all rushing for a game. WTF?
I had the same thing happen to me. For years I was looking for people to play 6th through 8th edition. No one wanted to play. They either moved on to 40K, T9A, KoW, or AoS.
But now with ToW, all of a sudden they want to play WHFB. Every one of them saying word-to-word verbatim "I'm just glad that they brought Fantasy back." What??? The company didn't tell you to stop playing WHFB. YOU chose not to continue playing because the game wasn't supported by the company. Frick you.
People like official support. Continued rules balance, new minis, lore developments, etc. I'm not one of those people it doesn't bother me if it's official or not but this is why lots of people don't like "dead" games.
Those don't bother me at all. I'm perfectly content with playing a "dead" game. A lot of my interest for ToW died when rules came out on new base sizes and fans making dumb comments like the one in my original post.
Because of the mixed reaction to 8th, it’s a barrier to agree on which edition. With an ‘official’ version it’s much easier to agree to play that, and TOW is more ‘friendly’ to your existing army (from 4-7th) than 8th was, where you needed to bloat up your old units for them even to be viable.
>alternatives
Nothing can be a good substitute if it costs 80 bucks for every 100 bucks you have to spend on fantasy. Alternative games decided they could be discount GW instead of a true alternative with reasonable prices.
>they are good as dead with ToW back.
Not really, pricing ensures that most people will play something else
Because its not true console wars its not "my company is better than your company" its internal fanbase struggles with GW in a house always wins scenario no matter who wins GW wins and table top suffers.
When the dust settles and the FOMO wears off, and all the consoomers have wasted their money and moved on to the next new thing...
... people will conclude that it was a shit game with shit balance and that GW only put the minimal amount of work in to profit off of nostalgia.
Don't waste your time. Play 6th.
>Nooooo! Product A might be selling better than Product B from the same company! Nooooooooo!
What the frick is wrong with GW homosexuals?
Holy cow, ToW! Your resurgence has the momentum of a runaway freight train! Why are you so popular?
>take a well-established setting that has a defined core fanbase
>throw it all in the trash and start over to appeal to a completely different fanbase, that is not going to start buying new mini's for a lite version of the setting they are already comfortable with
>be confused why your new setting isn't selling as well as the old one
IMAGINE MY SHOCK
are we venting out our frustrations early before everyone gets excited for AoS 4th edition? Grow up lads, it'll help your sanity.
>aos
>good ruleset
I honestly hope the people who pretend they believe this get cancer and die, they aren't humans.
>aos
>doesn't need 200 pages to tell you how to push 5 rectangles straight towards each other
How could anyone like that shit game
>196 of those pages were for flavor text
Your lack of knowledge is showing.
>doesn't understand regimental facing
>doesn't appreciate the depth that movement rules adds to the tactical decision making
>almost definitely doesn't remember how gauging distance with your eyes and positioning your troops used to have an actual effect on the flow of the game
>table made narrower to cut down manouvering space
>bases made wider, rank bonus reduced and wide ranks encouraged to cut down space even more
>swiftstride added to make turn 1 charges possible
>premeasuring added and guess range artillery removed to make gauging distances completely unnecessary
>fbigo and standfirm added to make it harder to force a unit out of position
You have no idea what you're talking about. Wfb was a relic ruleset anyway but at least it was of it's time, tow is just the babby's first wargame version without the decency to learn the lessons of 20 years of game design.
>calls tow babby's first wargame
>while defending aos
I don't know how bad GW fricked over ToW and I'm not surprised but at least try to act like you have an IQ above room temperature in Celsius.
random charge range and premeasuring is one of the few concessions to contemporary design fashions that 8th made
also it wouldn't matter if every pro-guess range weapon poster got together and had a conference to try and nut out an argument, one of my regular opponents in 6th was a carpenter with an empire army, you simply can't convince me guess range is a good thing
Oathmark unironically deals wmost of these, J mC just needs to add harquebus, other weapons and a few more creatures and characters. Gets a bit broken when someone takes a giant or dragon, otherwise very elegant manouvreing
>the scope of the project has grown, so please bear with us.
Sweet little lies.
>adults are taking
Claiming that aos has good rules and pretending to be a grog precludes you from this definition, moron.
>n-no you're the fake grog!!
That's all you've got isn't it. Loretubers and tiktok are that way so you can pretend you know what I'm talking about >>
>Loretubers and tiktok
I assumed they were full of aos trash but I guess you'd know better than me, now frick off back there.
>you were never there, have no memories of that golden age
Keep larping kid
You aren't larping, dumbass, larp is live action, you are text based roleplaying. Fricking moronic zoomers barely understand whatever shit dialect of English they use these days I swear.
>you're the zoomer!!
Sure I am zoomzoom, because you weren't there for any of it It must be me who's lying.
If you weren't lying you'd be believable, simple as.
>no ur lyin
Ok kids
Concession accepted I guess.
Yeah I concede it's pointless replying to you morons yet here I am. Why not share your favourite memories of the 90s gw era?
>share your favourite memories
I'm not helping you make your shitpost more believable for next time.
Yeah totally didn't see that coming
What does any of that have to do with your misuse of the word larp?
I played 6th edition wfb and have mixed opinions about TOW
On one hand:
>your entire block of infantry won't get erased on the first round of combat
But on the other hand
>complete dumbing down of the magic phase
>have to rebase my whole wfb army
>skaven aren't legal
>you can premeasure rather than accidentally landing a mortar shot in another room because you have no concept of estimating 30 inches
>feels like infantry spam which plagued editions 7-8 might make a resurgence
Eh, I'll probably still play it, mostly because all the grogs have switched to it and we don't have to argue which wfb edition to play
I always wanted to play WHFB when I was a kid, and now I might able able to play.
How are the Dwarves? I've always like the Dawi and want to cross off some grudges.
Bottom tier according to tournament results but from the games ive played they are pretty good and ive won 75% of games ive played. Many a grudge has been settled.
Perfect time to recapture your childhood
>feels like infantry spam which plagued editions 7-8 might make a resurgence
Good news anon, it's the exact opposite problem! Monsters in this edition, specifically dragons, are insanely OP, especially against infantry blocks, so I doubt you'll see 8th ed tier horde lists any time soon.
>you can premeasure rather than accidentally landing a mortar shot in another room because you have no concept of estimating 30 inches
Carpentryhammer was, is, and always will be, fricking gay. In a skirmish game where everyone has free flowing movement and like 20 models on a densely packed table? Sure, no pre-measuring, but on a rank and flank game where everyone moves in almost pre-determined lines and angles? Frick that. As other anon eluded to, if you face an opponent who is extremely good at estimating distances he could be a terrible general and his ability to always land the charge and sink the middle of a unit with arty will see him through regardless. Frick that.
>He's a terrible general so he deserves to lose
>But he's better at the game than me so he won anyway
Nah bud, you were just bad at the game, and unless your eyesight and depth perception are so bad you literally qualify as disabled, the reason you sucked is you were too stubborn/stupid to figure it out, making *you* the shit general - if you don't have the tactical skills to execute the plans you make, the plans are worthless.
>complete dumbing down of the magic phase
Historicalchads, we won. Remember Warlord lankdsknechtsmake god cheap Empire but not the other way round
>your entire block of infantry won't get erased on the first round of combat
yeah that is nice.
>complete dumbing down of the magic phase
it does bother me a bit but i also feel like magic was my least favorite part of the old game.
>have to rebase my whole wfb army
doesnt really bother me. just get unit bases.
>skaven aren't legal
it really bums me out. skaven were a big part of why i liked wfb so much.
>you can premeasure rather than accidentally landing a mortar shot in another room because you have no concept of estimating 30 inches
still not a fan of the way you use cannons/mortars. i cant think of a better way though.
>have to rebase my whole wfb army
get converter trays, and you can match the new unit footprints more accurately than even having new size bases in a regular tray.
Surprise! You've been listening to seething AoS babies!
cathay when
No plans
Despite the imbalances, it looks like the win rates are still more balanced the 10th ed 40K on release.
Holy frick I forgot this even existed
Now I see dwarfs and orcs and goblins getting re-released
Are night goblins any good? I have the minis from battle of skull pass
Any chance of unofficial skaven rules getting community wide acceptance or am I delusional for thinking that could happen with a GW game?
The only acceptance that matters with unofficial rules is that of the people you personally are playing against.
>SELLING FAST