my town has a museum with multiple sizes of zweihander, all of which were actually used in battle. they tended to be used by oversized the mountain type dudes and intimidation was a huge part of it, but they were real.
They existed and were used, but not in the way people think they were used.
>DOOD YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THE GATSU KEKOLD BASTERU SWORDO WAS TOTALLY REAL IT WAS JUST USED AS EDGY DECORATION AND A PROP AND DIDNT SEE ANY BATTLE AT ANY POINT IN HISTORY >don't ever reply to me again you asphalt chewing neanderthal mouthbreather
The blades are very thin towards the tip maybe 2mm, you don't really have a problem wielding the things, the extra length is only really felt when in motion and inertia kicks in.
The main move-set is intended to occupy space, often in bodyguard function (so swords with bling like pic related make sense), not really for one on one combat.
Montante tend to be lighter, and use will differ depending on application, battlefield or civilian, but at the end of the day they are simply big swords that could and were used.
We got manuals for the civilian side so it's easier to point to when people pull up some know to be made up wallace wallhanger to claim all were fantasy.
We basically see a progression from cutting oriented swords (e.g. Oakeshott type-X), when armor was not as common, to poky pointy stuff and hammers etc. when armor was able to prevent most attacks from working (type-XV), to a reemergence of cutting-oriented swords (type-XX) and the development of complex hilts with more protection (rapier, schiavona etc. ) when guns made armor less effective on the battlefield but guns still were not sufficiently developed to completely replace hand to hand combat.
The Montante/Zweihänder fall into this late category, together with other swords like katzbalger etc.
Hard to point to a single one as they mostly cover a specific time-frame.
In general it's just looking at swords not as an isolated topic but as part of a weapon-system including armor.
On swords themselves there is now much more good information available than it was only a few years ago.
e.g. I'd recommend anyone to read
https://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/iss/index.html
if interested in metallurgy.
But for looking at the complete kit covering a millennium or more unfortunately nothing comes to mind.
Form a metallurgical perspective there's "The Knight and the Blast Furnace" it's kinda expensive and hard to find.
11 months ago
Anonymous
i'm fine with multiple books covering different time frames and you can find that book on libgen btw
Guns affected the usage of armor (mostly due to it being hard to use firearms in armor, not because armor couldn't stop bullets) but not swords, swords were used even for infantry into the 18th and 19th century. Hell there's even examples of them being used in WWI and WWII, albeit in far fewer instances. I wish there were more accounts of Highland broadswords used against katanas during the Burma campaign, that'd be a sight for sore eyes.
The only things I can think of are dehorsing cavalry or breaking spear formations. Ive also been taught that anything a greatsword can do, a large axe, hammer or polearm can do better.
>anything a greatsword can do, a large axe, hammer or polearm can do better.
Nah, those are worse at area control. It's the one thing where a greatsword edges out.
Nah, these were 100% used for rebellious peasant militia chopping, and there was a lot of them in the HRE and France.
>take mercenary men at arms, give them some half decent armor, a closed helmet and a big 2H sword and he'll swing away, mowing down all the unarmored peasants.
This is totally useless against cavalry charges or decent pike formations.
[...]
[...]
This artist is kind of amazing. Now if only he'd draw a Bolognese sidesword girl or Silver backsword girl...
>Winged Hussar
I think I may be in love. Please characterize her more. Kind of wish she had a more 17th century style mostly-closed hussar hilt szabla but this is fine.
oh yeah
I farmed that rat guy in the undead settlement stables for hours
always felt like this grind shit was so unnecessary in these games, should be able to just take the weapons from their hands
I finally got around to start making a Giantdad build and it's pretty damn fun even in PvE once you finally get the essentials in place. Made the dubious choice of getting to 66 endurance before properly investing in vit so that was rough for a while.
its fun but it's a fricking pain in the ass when you get to izalith, you do almost no damage and some boss fights last way too long. of course you can cheat with a lightning weapon but that wouldn't be fun now, right?
I mean I just took the Chaos Servant shortcut, seemed nightmarish to try and fight the centipede with an incomplete build when the reason I needed to get into Izalith was to get red titanite in the first place.
Obviously the zwei. Enornous range, great base damage, very accessible stat requirements, huge poise damage, fast rolling attack, pancakes on R2, it doesn't even weigh very much.
It's fun but it's also really versatile, the Zwei's R2s are some of the most effective poise breaking moves in the entire game. Pretty much anything that actually can be staggered will go in one or two R2s at most.
You lose some content if you kill him too early, you can farm Sunlight Medals later if you need them but they're for Sunbros progression and don't have any real use beyond that.
You lose some content if you kill him too early, you can farm Sunlight Medals later if you need them but they're for Sunbros progression and don't have any real use beyond that.
[...]
Yes.
you lose a Sunlight Medal, that's it
Thanks, that's great. I have two more questions.
Is the Gargoyle Tail Axe worth it? It was a real pain in the ass to cut off the tail but a friend told me it would be worth it.
Beyond not being able to summon, is there any side effect to remaining Hollow for a long time? I haven't used a single humanity yet since my first death.
>Is the Gargoyle Tail Axe worth it? It was a real pain in the ass to cut off the tail but a friend told me it would be worth it.
Not really, it's pretty mediocre, plus you'll get another chance to get one later. >Beyond not being able to summon, is there any side effect to remaining Hollow for a long time? I haven't used a single humanity yet since my first death.
It doesn't really have any application outside of summoning or invasions, don't worry about it. You might miss some NPC invasions and their unique equipment if you're not human in certain areas but unless you want to spoil yourself I wouldn't be too concerned about checking which ones.
>Is the Gargoyle Tail Axe worth it? It was a real pain in the ass to cut off the tail but a friend told me it would be worth it.
Not really, it's pretty mediocre, plus you'll get another chance to get one later. >Beyond not being able to summon, is there any side effect to remaining Hollow for a long time? I haven't used a single humanity yet since my first death.
It doesn't really have any application outside of summoning or invasions, don't worry about it. You might miss some NPC invasions and their unique equipment if you're not human in certain areas but unless you want to spoil yourself I wouldn't be too concerned about checking which ones.
Oh, being human also lets you kindle bonfires for more estus, that's the other thing. But I'm guessing you already knew that.
Just get someone to drop it for you or CE it in yourself. You've either already played the game before or spoilered yourself anyway so it doesn't really matter. I don't think it's that good in DS2 anyway.
Huntsman's Copse, Harvest Valley, and Earthen Keep are pretty quick if you don't take the side paths or look for loot. It's not as far away as you think
I'm on side of using unusual and fun weapons like caestus, whips, spears and so on.
If I want to swing swords, I can simply play any other of 1000000000000000000000 games that assume swords are the only weapons that exist.
I wish they made an actually decently proportioned arming sword, there's absolutely no reason for the straight swords to be so much shorter than the katanas.
Zweihander. Carried my first ds1 playthrough. Claymore is the lil bro greatsword I use until I have the stats for zwei. Why bother with something slightly lighter and slightly faster when all my hits pancake the enemy into oblivion? Nah, it's gonna be the zwei all day.
This. I knew where it was before I started my DaS playthrough, but that's it, everything else was blind. Holy SHIT what a broken weapon. Absolutely flattens everything. I got it to +5 before Capra, and the fight was a joke. No boss took my more than 6 tries (Manus), and only he and Artorias took 5+. All other bosses were first-tried or took under 3 attempts.
>Animations start to improve >Add even more shitty impractical fantasy weapons instead of a better variety of historical ones
It almost feels deliberate. Like that cuphilt rapier could very easily have been more appropriate but no, "heavy thrusting swords" need to be a thing.
I was just so disappointed when I killed those skeletons over and over and over again, and when a Grossemesser dropped it's a broad bladed scimitar instead. Stuff like the first Heavy Thrusting Sword you can find was funny, and having a str variant of the weapon is fine in my book. But really I'd just rather that they gave me my actual favorite sword.
Ah, sorry, didn't see that.
I bet you feel stupid now
neither were used in real life so whatever. i can't be arsed with
>le which made up fantasy weapon is the le bestest
?
The Zweihänder was used irl
>most historically literate cuc/k/old
Me on the left here. Don't talk shit if you weren't there.
>literally only three guys using it
There might be more out of shot. Spacing out is kind of essential when you're swinging a sword that big.
>zweihandercels seething over phalanx chads
Greatswords aren't really geared towards conventional formations, no.
my town has a museum with multiple sizes of zweihander, all of which were actually used in battle. they tended to be used by oversized the mountain type dudes and intimidation was a huge part of it, but they were real.
>DOOD YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THE GATSU KEKOLD BASTERU SWORDO WAS TOTALLY REAL IT WAS JUST USED AS EDGY DECORATION AND A PROP AND DIDNT SEE ANY BATTLE AT ANY POINT IN HISTORY
>don't ever reply to me again you asphalt chewing neanderthal mouthbreather
frogposters must be mentally challenged
Frog posters are the only thing holding this site together. We more frog posters, not less.
The blades are very thin towards the tip maybe 2mm, you don't really have a problem wielding the things, the extra length is only really felt when in motion and inertia kicks in.
The main move-set is intended to occupy space, often in bodyguard function (so swords with bling like pic related make sense), not really for one on one combat.
Montante and Zweihanders have pretty different usage, IIRC. Dunno about Spadone but they might be different too.
Montante tend to be lighter, and use will differ depending on application, battlefield or civilian, but at the end of the day they are simply big swords that could and were used.
We got manuals for the civilian side so it's easier to point to when people pull up some know to be made up wallace wallhanger to claim all were fantasy.
Didn't they appear during times where firearms and other gunpowder weaponry started becoming more prevalent and thus ditched entirely?
We basically see a progression from cutting oriented swords (e.g. Oakeshott type-X), when armor was not as common, to poky pointy stuff and hammers etc. when armor was able to prevent most attacks from working (type-XV), to a reemergence of cutting-oriented swords (type-XX) and the development of complex hilts with more protection (rapier, schiavona etc. ) when guns made armor less effective on the battlefield but guns still were not sufficiently developed to completely replace hand to hand combat.
The Montante/Zweihänder fall into this late category, together with other swords like katzbalger etc.
what book do i need to read about this?
Hard to point to a single one as they mostly cover a specific time-frame.
In general it's just looking at swords not as an isolated topic but as part of a weapon-system including armor.
On swords themselves there is now much more good information available than it was only a few years ago.
e.g. I'd recommend anyone to read
https://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/iss/index.html
if interested in metallurgy.
But for looking at the complete kit covering a millennium or more unfortunately nothing comes to mind.
Form a metallurgical perspective there's "The Knight and the Blast Furnace" it's kinda expensive and hard to find.
i'm fine with multiple books covering different time frames and you can find that book on libgen btw
Guns affected the usage of armor (mostly due to it being hard to use firearms in armor, not because armor couldn't stop bullets) but not swords, swords were used even for infantry into the 18th and 19th century. Hell there's even examples of them being used in WWI and WWII, albeit in far fewer instances. I wish there were more accounts of Highland broadswords used against katanas during the Burma campaign, that'd be a sight for sore eyes.
They existed and were used, but not in the way people think they were used.
The only things I can think of are dehorsing cavalry or breaking spear formations. Ive also been taught that anything a greatsword can do, a large axe, hammer or polearm can do better.
>anything a greatsword can do, a large axe, hammer or polearm can do better.
Nah, those are worse at area control. It's the one thing where a greatsword edges out.
Nah, these were 100% used for rebellious peasant militia chopping, and there was a lot of them in the HRE and France.
>take mercenary men at arms, give them some half decent armor, a closed helmet and a big 2H sword and he'll swing away, mowing down all the unarmored peasants.
This is totally useless against cavalry charges or decent pike formations.
It was also used by guards accompanying shit en route, it's hard to raid and steal shit when there's a whirlwind of steel in your way.
Also used for covering a breach for the same reason.
7/10 bait, not bad. The frogpost makes it extra obnoxious so good job.
thanks. what can i do to up my game?
Dunno, maybe work in katanas somehow.
work in katanas, and intimate that greatswords would be far too heavy to actually be used in battle.
>Tit armor
>Codpiece
N-nani!?
she's flat and uses the codpiece for storage
>she's flat and uses the codpiece for storage
That's adorable.
Very cute Landsknecht-chan, would sack Rome with/10
well hello there new fetish
>new fetish
it's just futa in a different form. congrats on your homosexual awakening.
but I already fap to futa
This artist is kind of amazing. Now if only he'd draw a Bolognese sidesword girl or Silver backsword girl...
That ... Wouldn't be out of character for a Landsknecht, actually.
>Katzbalger might just have been a penis joke
Pretty much.
Pictish wife
Cute, still want a winged hussar GF though.
>Winged Hussar
I think I may be in love. Please characterize her more. Kind of wish she had a more 17th century style mostly-closed hussar hilt szabla but this is fine.
You are an idiot
Feel like justifying your statement?
No seriously, I'd like to know what the problem was.
Well Ganker? Would you join them in driving back the Ottoman scourge from the walls of Vienna?
my ancestor made zweihanders for a living, his swords were used in battle and are in museums around europe
Both
Bastard
Zaywender is ugly barbarian trash. Claymore is superior in every way.
Claymore is far more versatile.
Bitch
No stab?
Never understood whybthisbalwaysbhad tonhave an outrageous drop rate.
Anon, are you okay?
I fell in love with the zwei r2 poke in ds2
so glad they brought it back in ER
he's talking about the ds3 flamberge
shit only drops from 2 enemies in the whole game and it's like 1% drop rate
oh yeah
I farmed that rat guy in the undead settlement stables for hours
always felt like this grind shit was so unnecessary in these games, should be able to just take the weapons from their hands
in ds1, zwei because the 2h r2 is busted and makes the game a cakewalk
Longsword
?t=33
I finally got around to start making a Giantdad build and it's pretty damn fun even in PvE once you finally get the essentials in place. Made the dubious choice of getting to 66 endurance before properly investing in vit so that was rough for a while.
its fun but it's a fricking pain in the ass when you get to izalith, you do almost no damage and some boss fights last way too long. of course you can cheat with a lightning weapon but that wouldn't be fun now, right?
I mean I just took the Chaos Servant shortcut, seemed nightmarish to try and fight the centipede with an incomplete build when the reason I needed to get into Izalith was to get red titanite in the first place.
Dipshit troony censored it, soulless.
>censored
I guess he started leveling up DEX in real life
What a single DEX point does to an MF
BESTOC
Claymore in Fromsoft games.
But I like two handers in vidya in general.
Greatsword category is dogshit in every game in PvE.
Not in monster hunter world
cringe weapon
Obviously the zwei. Enornous range, great base damage, very accessible stat requirements, huge poise damage, fast rolling attack, pancakes on R2, it doesn't even weigh very much.
>pancakes on R2
Glad somebody else appreciates that, the slapstick is unmatched
It's fun but it's also really versatile, the Zwei's R2s are some of the most effective poise breaking moves in the entire game. Pretty much anything that actually can be staggered will go in one or two R2s at most.
Dark Souls 1 question. I just rang the Bells of Awakening, but I didn't know I could have freed Lautrec. Am I fricked out some important content?
you lose a Sunlight Medal, that's it
does he get out anyway if you don't help him?
Yes.
You lose some content if you kill him too early, you can farm Sunlight Medals later if you need them but they're for Sunbros progression and don't have any real use beyond that.
Yes.
Nah
Thanks, that's great. I have two more questions.
Is the Gargoyle Tail Axe worth it? It was a real pain in the ass to cut off the tail but a friend told me it would be worth it.
Beyond not being able to summon, is there any side effect to remaining Hollow for a long time? I haven't used a single humanity yet since my first death.
>Is the Gargoyle Tail Axe worth it? It was a real pain in the ass to cut off the tail but a friend told me it would be worth it.
Not really, it's pretty mediocre, plus you'll get another chance to get one later.
>Beyond not being able to summon, is there any side effect to remaining Hollow for a long time? I haven't used a single humanity yet since my first death.
It doesn't really have any application outside of summoning or invasions, don't worry about it. You might miss some NPC invasions and their unique equipment if you're not human in certain areas but unless you want to spoil yourself I wouldn't be too concerned about checking which ones.
Oh, being human also lets you kindle bonfires for more estus, that's the other thing. But I'm guessing you already knew that.
Claymore for lower reqs, higher proportional strength scaling and better dps over all
Claymore because I can roll bs zweihander noobs
Zweihander always.
Any tip on how to get Zwei as fast as possible? I'm still at Sinners' Rise and the Iron Keep seem so far away.
Cheat Engine, nobody's gonna give a frick if you gen an item in a 10 year old singleplayer game
Just get someone to drop it for you or CE it in yourself. You've either already played the game before or spoilered yourself anyway so it doesn't really matter. I don't think it's that good in DS2 anyway.
>Sinners Rise
Actually heading towards Iron Keep would be a start. It's a non-linear game silly.
Huntsman's Copse, Harvest Valley, and Earthen Keep are pretty quick if you don't take the side paths or look for loot. It's not as far away as you think
I'm on side of using unusual and fun weapons like caestus, whips, spears and so on.
If I want to swing swords, I can simply play any other of 1000000000000000000000 games that assume swords are the only weapons that exist.
I'm thinking about doing dual caestus run. Got any advices?
Neither, I prefer my toothpicks
caestus
A fricking club
Dark Souls ? Zweihander
Dark Souls 3? Claymore
Elden Ring? Banished Knight's GS
simple as
anybody else a fan of the longski swordski?
I wish they made an actually decently proportioned arming sword, there's absolutely no reason for the straight swords to be so much shorter than the katanas.
Zweihander. Carried my first ds1 playthrough. Claymore is the lil bro greatsword I use until I have the stats for zwei. Why bother with something slightly lighter and slightly faster when all my hits pancake the enemy into oblivion? Nah, it's gonna be the zwei all day.
This. I knew where it was before I started my DaS playthrough, but that's it, everything else was blind. Holy SHIT what a broken weapon. Absolutely flattens everything. I got it to +5 before Capra, and the fight was a joke. No boss took my more than 6 tries (Manus), and only he and Artorias took 5+. All other bosses were first-tried or took under 3 attempts.
for me it's Zwei, 100% is my swordfu
Esteemed gentlemen of superior intellect and taste will pick any curved sword anyway
>Scimitar is underpowered
>Falchion is busted and universally frowned upon
And all I wanted was a decent saber.
Why didn't they give us a real kreigsmesser in Elden Ring?
>Animations start to improve
>Add even more shitty impractical fantasy weapons instead of a better variety of historical ones
It almost feels deliberate. Like that cuphilt rapier could very easily have been more appropriate but no, "heavy thrusting swords" need to be a thing.
I was just so disappointed when I killed those skeletons over and over and over again, and when a Grossemesser dropped it's a broad bladed scimitar instead. Stuff like the first Heavy Thrusting Sword you can find was funny, and having a str variant of the weapon is fine in my book. But really I'd just rather that they gave me my actual favorite sword.
>little homosexual toothpick vs chad muscle man sword with testosterone aura
hard choice
With the Zweihander you swing first and ask question later, otherwise those damn dogs will stun lock you to dead.