trying to find a MMO for me after 7 months DOTA free. hard time finding one.
need help
played wow forever, so NO.
want the trinity style (tank and roles)
BDO is a slog with shitty gear farming progression
dont want a farm fest, but playing a bit of mortal online anyway cuz its comfy, but not exactly exciting
FFXI - No, its one theme park ride after another with no exploration. just run into party finder, run dungeon, rinse repeat......
destiny 2 - have it, dont love it.
tree of savior - actually enjoy this style, but no. its a shitshow.
GW2 - not sure i even like it, LOVED gw1. but its too "run to flashy thing, do it, move on to next flashy thing"
loved albion but not what im looking for, i want a more formalized questing and dungeon experience
DDO- literally just remake this with modern graphics.
neverwinter - meh, its another shallow theme park
ESO - no formal roles.
any suggestions folks?
Pirates of the Burning Sea if youre into that sort of thing
not really, i am DLing LOTRO now. but the graphics ....
LOTRO's graphics are fine and aside from the UI I'd even say it aged well. In exchange you get pic related (couple zones out of date)
OP here, ended up downloading LOTRO and set up a guardian,
again. should have mentioned i played GW2, took ranger necro and guardian to lvl cap. game just got boring
at this point, im debating project 99 or EQ1/ anyone know the main differences here?
Also forgot to respond to your Everquest question. Neither. Shards of Dalaya. EQ custom server. Nothing else like it.
I have played gw2 since release and had 0world progression until last year when a "girl" in my guild wanted to take me to the naked beach. GW2 is best with a guild on discord I think, mainly because it is a ~~*PvP*~~ game. A good guild will want to go do content together and the like on the side when events come around; but I've always considered gw2 a pvp game, as it was intended to be geared towards on release.
Everquest P99 is currently my guilty pleasure. I play it everyday. I found just getting started, and binding keys, etc, to have been the most daunting bit. Once u've chosen a character, I suggest just committing a bit and then what seemed daunting; starts to grow on u. I just love the freedom gfx, and the no hand-holding game play. I chose monk, so I'm very busy in dungeons pulling, bard is quite active too.. but when I'm farming solo on a camp; I can pop on a movie and just chill. #1 mmo to play with a gf in the room kuz u can tailor ur experience I.e chill farm or epic delve with the boisngirls
was addicted to DDO and have a couple characters reborn a couple times: this game is DEAD dead. It's just broken beyond repair I think. There are too many high reborn or just thinkers n whatnot, that the experience I had starting out is NOTHING CLOSE to wat it used to be. Back in the day I struggled to get past the first port missions. Gathering adventurers with my dollar store headset, forming the perfect composition to handle a hard mode lv13 dungeon... now as soon as u start up; everyone is zerging content all the way up to the frign end. I just don't think they thought too far ahead with the reborn system; reminds me of dark souls when ur just too strong for content and ur running it with a friend who also smashes as hard as u: cake walk
ESO meh. Get a class then hit ur rotates and GG. Honestly pretty decent game but the content is just drivel to me.
Tl;dr: gw2 is a pvp game in my eyes. Eq p99 is so far the best mmo I've played
>DDO
I imagine it would still be a good play with a group of friends or if you could find a guild/clan of newbs
DO NOT PLAY CLASSIC EVERQUEST. It's the heaviest drug there is.
I kinda wanna get back into lotro i played when it first launched as a guardian I heard you have to pay for quests now is that true ?
Quest packs are more like zone packs and most of them are given away to you by default up to level 110. 111-140 is paid but we're talking tens of thousands of quests and thousands of hours of content for free (everything up to and including Mordor).
After that, it's like $100 for everything remaining. Less during seasonal sales.
>FFXI - No, its one theme park ride after another with no exploration. just run into party finder,
>FFXI
>party finder
If you're going to complain about a game, at least get its name right. FFXI doesn't have a party finder, that's FFXIV. And they're on opposite ends of the soi scale.
Most older areas have been made free, and lately they've had a free code every year that lets you get most of the areas that aren't the latest. The last two were in late September, so it won't be long now.
The only quests you have to pay for are some in moronicly extra areas, or in the newest content. I guess they feel that their best profit comes from raid gays and new content gays, and that's fine with me. They even opened up Helm's Deep content last year, that was notable for being the only Epic Quest stuff that f2p couldn't get.
Anyhow, if there's anything I hate most about lotro, it's the RPG system having 500 different stats, all of which can be raised with lotro points. And war horses.
the lotro engine is made on produced dozens of shitty mmos, you notice similar UI elements, font, the way stuff is animated, etc. all wow-likes.
Try OSRS leave the WoW-clones behind. Other than that, New World? You already listed most of the active WoWclones. But if you don't like ESO you probably won't like it.
>Said he wants a trinity style MMO (clear tank, healer, and DPS roles in combat)
>Said he doesn't like slogs
>Said he doesn't want a farm fest
>This absolute genius recommends OSRS
Behold, the average OSRS player's level of intelligence. Tell us, how does glue and lead paint taste?
try uo unchained.
Seifer is pretty cool guy, eh programs things and isn't afraid of anything.
https://www.play-uo.com/
>4. Racism (or any case of verbal toxicity) & Harassment will be severely punished.
>9. Please choose an inoffensive name (Discord & In-game). We will change your name if we judge it does not fit the community.
Gay.
Albion seems like the closest to what you are looking for. You might enjoy Vrising. I'm not sure how Fractured is doing or if Ashes of Creation will ever release. Maybe wait for Corepunk or the Riot MMO.
>Fractured online
>Good, evil, neutral alignments for pvp
>all crafted gear, no loot drops
>drop inventory on pvp death(not equipped gear)
>equipped gear takes durability hit, costs money and mats to repair which eventually breaks and keeps the crafting economy going
>the coolest feature is that you learn spells and abilities by fighting mobs
>tons of theorycrafting to be done and builds to be made with a frickton of skills
>can build your own city, open to other players for trade and socialization
HOWEVER
>incredibly difficult as a solo player
>if you dont have a second account to give you a second land plot for manufacturing mats, you will struggle to get to higher tier armor/items
>you will get ganked, probably.
>isometric point click move
>buy 2 play, early access
Yeah I've been having a blast with FO this past couple of weeks. Will probably be maining it until season of discovery release. Shame it isn't more popular, but for an Early Access (that is an actual early access where its like a beta, no just a paid demo like most companies) indie pvp mmorpg, its very fun. It has certainly filtered a lot of normies. But still pulls in a fairly good population (peaks 1000-1200 a day). I have a blast in it. Especially when the bandits who spend an hour running around ganking solo players gets curb stomped by a sheriff and cries in chat/disc.
Same dude, same. They keep delaying it and its killing me. They posted a july update and it looks like its still going strong. But they have competition now. I feel fairly strongly that both pax dei and hytale are vying for the same audience, so to speak. So they need to step their game up and release before pax dei (or hope it sucks at release).
did you play the pax dei alpha? how was it? i heard it's pretty good, for an alpha.
Nah I may play it in the future when there's more there. It looked bare bones from what they did show, so I'm just holding out till its more down the road.
Pax Dei is cool but it's VERY early alpha and there's little to no PvE content outside of gathering and some very primitive combat.
I've said it for 25 years and I'll say it again. Pure sandbox MMOs don't work. Ideally it's a blend of sandbox/themepark where the sandbox gives you things to do between content releases.
>Pure sandbox MMOs don't work. Ideally it's a blend of sandbox/themepark
what would that look like in terms of game mechanics? any old or current examples?
i'm just curious, what sandbox features would be there and what themepark mechanics would be there?
new world.
Mabinogi and Age of Wushu got the closest to it. MMOs since wow are way too focused on systems instead of building a world you can do shit in.
>systems instead of building a world you can do shit in.
A world with stuff to do is "systems". What wow does has is linear content treadmill + minigames that don't matter outside of themselves.
It seemed interesting so I bought it, but it felt so jank while playing with ~400 ping
Yeah its a shame but sadly they just can't get a playerbase in other regions. NA accounts for like ~60% of the playerbase right now. Maybe in the future when they have more disposal income, they'll launch other region servers accompanied by a marketing push to try to attract people to it.
Seriously, why hasn't valve made an MMO?
Probablty the same reason they haven't made any good games in the past decade.
Source Engine isn't built for MMO scale and would require them to develop essentially a whole new engine unless they got the moron route and make an ARPG with MMO dogshit tacked on, at which point I think Valve would have just made an ARPG.
Weird thing is, Gaben is known to be a WOWgay, you'd think that over the years of the game going to shit he would have considered making a next gen MMO at some point, but they can't even release HL3 and its been 15-20 years already
Too risky. MMO players arent part of the casual crowd, the more hardcore crowd you aim at, the less whales you catch. Tbh im surprised PC gaming didnt die in 2007-2012 when mobile gaming became possible. The profit difference is absurd
>pvpgays still can't fathom that culling casuals for shits and giggles will lead exactly to that
Fricking wolves aren't stupid enough to slaughter the whole herd.
PVP is the ultimate end game, and a good MMO feeds into the PVP scene (not system, minigames are gay) which consumes resources from all levels of play and keeps the economy alive for newbros.
For example runescape items only have value based on how good it is in PVP or farming PVE to make money for PVP, gold is intrinsically worthless otherwise, same thing with EVE, if ships didn't blow up, Tritanium, the most abundant and easiest to access mineral in the game would be worthless.
Meanwhile you get shit that is pure PVE wank and those games are dead as frick and no one gives a frick that you killed the uber god super demon dragon deathlord god X because the weapon they drop is fricking worthless next patch and isn't useful in PVP if the game has PVP at all.
>ultimate end game
>kill people who are either literally new or terrible
Even if you make it a 100% 1:1 even fight this is still going to happen homosexual.
Some people like their games to be more interesting than 1v1 fox only final destination no tiems.
Also
>person with better ping wins at counter strike because their headshot registers first
Just don't play games if you don't like games
1v1
Jebus Cross
No Tazar
World PvP in MMOs is neat for novelty for a bit but whenever it becomes too sweaty and optimized it immediately becomes boring and unfun.
I never really bother with MMO pvp too much anymore since it's usually just a worse unbalanced version of another game that's solely pvp and more skill based and not gear based.
Opt-in mmo pvp is fine but forcing everyone to participate in shitty mmo pvp when they're trying to pve is never going to be a good idea
Thats fine, MOBAs and minecraft exist already, play those.
People are, that's why your favorite video game genre is dying. Being a passive aggressive b***h about it isn't going to fix that lol
Exactly my point, no one cares about MMO PVP because every MMO with MMO PVP is 20+ years old.
Implementing proto-MOBAs into your MMO and calling it MMO PVP is selling your game short and a recipe for wasting everyone's time, your developers and your players when the best PVP moments in a game like WOW is when your so called 'gank box' results in guild vs guild brawls.
>wow
>pvp
amazing bait, have a (you)
kys, keep your opinions to yourself, no one deserves to read those moronic ramblings
>Opt-in mmo pvp is fine but forcing everyone to participate in shitty mmo pvp when they're trying to pve is never going to be a good idea
It's always a good idea. People often complain about being "forced to do x" like being forced to join groups for content or being forced to join guilds but in reality this is what drives players to actually interact with each other.
For opt-in PvP everyone's a ghost, you don't give a shit if they pass by you, they're just an NPC. With FFA PvP every player is a human and potential friend or enemy, when another player passes by, you can't afford to ignore him. Let's say you get killed by him, so you go back to town and yell around saying there's a PK in Dragon's Valley and you get a group of players following you and then the PK also calls his own group and suddenly you have those organic community experiences everyone unconsciously craves in MMOs yet no one knows why they disappeared after MMOs did away with the "icky stuff" players hated like having to manually find groups for raids or forced pvp.
>Let's say you get killed by him, so you go back to town and yell around saying there's a PK in Dragon's Valley and you get a group of players following you and then the PK also calls his own group and suddenly you have those organic community experiences everyone unconsciously craves in MMOs
Yeah, this is fun and cute the first time it happens except after the novelty wears off and you want to actually level / quest or whatever in the area and you can't it's annoying. It only kind of works if the game is centered and balanced around that kind of open world PvP gameplay like something like Sea of Thieves, Rust, Tarkov etc. You can't have an MMO that's centered around PvE content then slap open world PvP onto it like most games do and not have it be cancer which is why they always end up removing or nerfing it. Souls game ended up removing/nerfing invading too because they're a PvE game first with PvP tacked on.
>Why don’t we just create & design software that protects consumers from their overwhelming FOMO & sense of entitlement!?
>No, we, the consumers, will not take responsibility for our complete lack of self control, nor will we tolerate anyone drawing the light upon the fact that consumers can be trained like rats
>No, it’s [COMPANY NAME]’s fault, why can’t you just tell us what to like and then make us like it wtf can you believe i payed real money for this?? I could be playing something else omg!!!!
This would all be solved if killing other players and getting involved in pvp actually rewarded experience or some sort of reward you can build towards an upgrade.
pvp boring af and unbalanced as shit in open world settings.
We live in an age with literally mountains of great, engaging, balanced pvp shooters literally everywhere, MMO pvp is not where it's at.
Thats cool, go play those instead of demanding every MMO that comes out to become a doomed WOW clone.
every pvp mmo fails in the exact same fricking way though
>release game
>people poopsock and rush to a decent level
>start ganking newbies right outside town
>newbies quit
>game dwindles to just 20 people that want to ambush lowbies while they're overleveled and overgeared
>these people then quit because the idea of a moderately balanced fight makes them REEEEEEEEEEEE
literally the only exception that I can think of is kurtzpel, and that failed because it was a lobby-based arena fighter with no updates masquerading as an mmo
Based and true. Whenever this comes up, people always point and scream about how EvE and Albion are successful. Nobody has been able to replicate EvE's success in 20+ years and the game's population has stopped growing. Albion only become successful after putting in extensive anti-pvp/gank mechanics (like flag only zones) and PvE content.
But yeap, I've played so many pvp mmos. And people sit there and bully/frick around so much with newer players that they quit/leave bad reviews. Which dominos into less and less people playing. Resulting in the death of the game.
>I played WOW on a PVE server for 20 years and im an expert on these things
>Every PVP MMO fails
Every PVE MMO also fails in the same ways
>Shit is too easy that people run out of content to do so people quit
>shit is to annoying/timegated that people quit
Again, the argument is that PVP is the ultimate end game, because after you do all the content in the game it gives you a reason to keep playing instead of quitting after uber badass megadeath dragon 9000 EXdeth is killed because now you can use the sword it dropped to kill people in PVP, a completely seperate but still engaging system if done well.
But you PVE gays don't seem to understand this and just get your panties in a bunch thinking that having good PVP in an MMO = you getting corpse camped.
pve boring af and cutscenes are boring and shit
We live in an age with litterally mountains of great, engaging, story driven cutscene simulators and cookie clickers, MMO pve is not where It's at.
>PVP or farming PVE to make money for PVP
Yeah, you don't even play OSRS
t. can't three way switch safer
>safer
You're just proving my point.
shhh, just go back to farming raids1 and dumping dragon claws and kodai's onto the GE for real players thanks.
>For example runescape items only have value based on how good it is in PVP or farming PVE to make money for PVP
PvP is about killing Players not fricking farming
EVE Online is Farmers In Space
>PVP is about killing players
With what equipment
>EVE is farmers in space
If you're a fricking chink maybe
And then those players all go play Rust anyway.
this image is bullshit
wakfu and dofus were NEVER pvp mmos, they are pve mmos and pve FOCUSED
they just had tacked on pvp on the side, dofus has always had pvp and has had updates for it, but its never been a core or required element of the game
wakfu only had pvp if you wanted to attack people coming into your nation or if you wanted to sneak into their nations, there was never a need or requirement for it, the only pvp they removed was that style of world because and it wasn't done because they wanted to remove the pvp, it was done because they condensed the world and made it a REQUIREMENT to go to other nations, and they never intended to force people to pvp, so that style of pvp was removed, the actually type of pvp that people did, organized fair pvp matches still exists
dofus also has a more active pvp scene than it has EVER had, no one liked faction vs faction, fighting for percs always sucked, head hunter sucked shit too
but rated kolo is goated, ava is great, percs still suck shit though
the only gutting of pvp they have done is shut down the other game called dofus arena
this image is a lie and factually wrong, don't believe this moron who keeps posting it
>Wakfu and Dofus were never PVP mmos
PVP was the end game, just because you never left the newbie areas doesn't mean the PVP didn't exist, Wakfu in particular gutted its PVP because it was flawed but homosexuals like you spammed forums to remove it instead of fixing it and the game died weeks, fricking weeks after removing the proper PVP system
But at least you get to farm tofus in astrub
pvp was never the end game for dofus.
Finding the dofus was the end game of dofus, there is a reason they were incredibly rare drops from some of the hardest bosses at the time of them being rolled out.
Wakfu had 0 support for pvp beyond being able to just fight others for its most popular period and it was only added after. Wakfu was a about a living ecological system and pve fights, pvp was never its end game
I had multiple 100+ characters when the first person reached 200, I have multiple lvl 200 characters in dofus
I played wakfu to its level cap multiple times as it kept increasing as new stuff got added, until it was 200 and even in the last few years I have played a bit as it has went over 200 to 215 and 230 and have my team of 230's
you genuinely have no fricking idea of what you are a talking about, they are pve games primarily and always have been.
I like pvp, I play lots of competitive games, I actively pvp in dofus, I loved playing dofus arena, and pvp in general is great
but you are actually just a lying moron, go play a competitive game if you want a pvp focus, plenty exist, pvp in mmos is naturally secondary to pve and its ALWAYS been secondary in dofus and wakfu.
newbie, homosexuals like you got PVP removed back when Wakfu was in its prime and probably never participated in any of the tournaments in Dofus
>B-but the end game is this scripted stuff not PVP
Then what, you collected everything (you did collect everything, right?) then what? Thats right homosexuals like you quit the game, while actual fans of the game stick around and play alts and PVP.
I have represented my server for a goultarminator.
its never been a pvp focused game, and its never removed pvp, it doesn't fit into your narrative in the slightest.
>actual fans of the game
see I know you are not an actual fan of the game, because I post in the ankama games thread here, and I post in the mmo threads on Ganker to mention dofus, as do a few others, no one in the ankamas games threads thinks its a pvp game, no one talks about it being a pvp focused game anywhere
you don't play dofus
you never played dofus
you don't even know the structure of the "tournament" you mentioned
you are a whiny little b***h who is factually wrong about something he has never played.
calm down larper
PVP removal killed the game and people are still salty about it, just because you didn't like it doesn't mean it didn't exist
>pvp removal killed the game
its not removed.
It was, but you can keep pretending larper 🙂
You're an actual moron if you think Dofus' endgame is purely PvP. PvP is one endgame and it's really good right now but it's PvE content is arguably the most well designed out of any MMO.
>wakfu and dofus were NEVER pvp mmos
LOL Wut?
>4 warring factions up from previous 2
>Each faction has resources they specialize in
>At lvl 10(?) you're forced into choosing a faction
>Hirelings/Heroes were introduced as a pay2win element for whales to gank free2play players
>You could ONLY mint kamas, and no monsters dropped money forcing you into doing professions which pushed you into enemy territory
I could go on, but i didnt read your post, after the first sentance i assumed you were trolling.
>Cont.
Also most importantly look at the player numbers dude. Why is 1.29 on dofus the most popular patch (Hint: Weapon item balance)? Why did the player numbers PLUMMET when pvp was removed (Wakfu)? Why did ankama release the stupid division 2 style extraction pvp only a patch or 2 after the player numbers bottomed out? Why are there ZERO english servers in wakfu today? The only "international" server has only spanish speakers because if you combined all the english speakers it couldnt form a full server dumbass
>THE GAME WAS MEANT TO CATER TO MEEEEE
Then open a private server and play by yourself pinko
Pure PVP isn't the savior either. i50 DAoC shards would never have died if PVP was all it took.
Not advocating pve as the pve focus in DAoC is sleep inducing.
You need proper balance. You need pve to be good and PVP to be balanced sure but you need to have shit for solos and lowbies to do in addition to stuff for groups. If it's a numbers game where more dudes always wins or more time always wins then you won't be able to hold onto the casual population which gives life to a server. This doesn't mean making end game content easy but rather less impactful. Someone can min max but the last set should be a 1% total difference in effectiveness. High group heal abilities should only kick in against other groups as those fun clutch abilities become massive hammers when pops are low as you can't do anything but form a bigger group.
lmao this image is toptier cherry-picking
Tree of Savior never was PvP focused, what killed the game is IMC being greedy and turning the beta into a fricking P2W shitstorm
Wakfu never was PvP focused, and let me tell you that Ankama removing the PvP was not the killing blow, it was piss-poor management and the founder of Ankama simply abandonning the game like an butthole, cutting the dev team from 10s of people to IIRC 5 or 6 juniors now. Final nail in the coffing was letting you pay to control 3 characters, effectivly killing the multiplayer part of a game where content is made for 6 chars. New server is giving back hope however, no multi-char bullshit, 60k+ pre-register, and the game has 10 years of content for PvE players to catch on.
Dofus (Ankama again) - never was PvP focused, them dropping the overworld PvP was for the best as this did not enhance the main gameplay loop and was overall a shitty idea. PvP is still existing through matchmaking and is rewarding, as well as being supported by small esport events and globally the company knowing that if they frick up this game, it's a death sentence. This game is probably keeping Ankama afloat, playerbase is healthy. INT was never their thing, it's mainly BR and FR.
New World was DOA anyways
Tera is dogshit, killing the PvP was not their biggest grief, it's greed
Wildstar and Firefall can stay dead as the shitty wow-like they were.
OP, go play wakfu on the new server realising nov 2nd it's freemium
oh no! people who aren't no-lifer spergs that spend all day on the game don't want their experiences ruined by others? what a concept!
if I want PvP or any variation of it I don't protect people from basic features of my game
only a griefer could have this mindset that he would design a game this way
run away as far as possible if you see something like PK points or red names
because they are stupid lazy Black folk
Apparently that's what Neon Prime is.
i see on the website "play for free" but what exactly does that mean? there's no way all of it is 100% free
its 100% for free
all the subscription gets you is tech2/tech3 ships (ie: more specialized hulls), capital ships, mining ships and lock bots out of some shit content no-one with a brain still does anyway
also you can buy the sub with in-game money so once you're established the sub is free anyway
EVE has a premium account system.
As an "Alpha" Clone(free player) you're training queue is restricted to training mostly T1 combat stuff with some T2 modules, there are a lot of things you can't do (Tech 2/3, Cloaking, deploying structures, ect) but for the most part you can play the core game that is EVE (pew pew red triangles or other players), your restrictions are mostly economical, but thats to prevent a billion free account botfarms destroying the economy and ruining everything (even though chinks already do it)
Unlike most games with a free trial mode, Alphas are 100% playable at all times, even if you let your subscription lapse, you can still play as an alpha, just restricted to alpha skill restrictions, and EVE is balanced around the idea that its an MMO so a lot of t1 players can still overpower t2 and t3 players.
>APM
Listen, EVE's got a very complex combat system, but its not a asiatic clicker, the server tickrate is fricking 1 per second, its all about the positioning, transversal, align times, bookmark mastery, and knowing when to take a fight and when to bait them into flying something you can kill.
Xi needs to entirely ban gaming in China
Eve is not >free. The free account puts you in a massive disadvantage against subbed players and should be considered a trial feature (unless you are already established and can squeeze a bit of additional utility out of a horde of alpha ALTs).
Actually playing EVE comfortably requires a minimum of two paid accounts, full stop.
there is literally ZERO action in EVE. its an excel simulator. if it played like the space fights in SWG id LOVE it,
>sweatiest highest APM highest skill ceiling highest stakes PVP on the video game market
>zero action
lol ok go back to Approach F1 fricking shitter
like half of Eve's playerbase are old Ultima Online etc MMO vets who have nothing else left to play that still gives them PVP shakes that keep them awake until next Tuesday
>like half of Eve's playerbase are old Ultima Online etc MMO vets who have nothing else left to play that still gives them PVP shakes that keep them awake until next Tuesday
eves player base is care bear moron 40 year old redditors. about 0.1% of the population is the type you described, and they all stopped playing 5-6 years ago.
Time to go outside son, gaming is dead. Fortnite took over WoW as the pop culture king. MMOs were only good when people were moronic enough to not min max and enjoy the game. Now all the systems are laid bare and people have a better understanding of mechanics so it's almost impossible to design a fun mmo. Unless some great innovation comes around and brings in the masses again mmos have gone the way of RTS games.
also
>is literally in a reddit corp
you can't make this shit up folks.
There is a ton of legacy corperations/alliances from social media groups
Something Awful spawned Goonswarm
Reddit spawned Test Alliance
They both fricking suck ass and only win via numbers.
eve is a numbers game, in release-2008 you could win by being first in the system and killing everyone else on the lag fest as they enter, 2008-2010 you could win by bringing a more cohesive fleet doctrine, 2010-2014 you could win by having a a bigger super wing to offset numbers. The bigger groups caught up, got more organized etc and the elite pvpers lost the elite gaymer advantage.
hence my comment
>MMOs were only good when people were moronic enough to not min max and enjoy the game.
eve is just a hyperinflated min maxxed by every group fest now days. Just like every other MMO. The genre had its course, gameplay got so drilled down developers can't release a basic system and expect players to find any mystery in it anymore. WoW classic kinda proved that with like 90% of the playerbase raid logging after the first month or two.
Try Star Trek Online then, it has pretty nice space combat. Cryptics are homosexuals though, but not as much of a homosexuals as in their other games surprisingly enough.
>ban you for no-no words
Yes it does. Ive been warned a few times by GMs
honestly, if albion had 1) more structure and direction, even for the PVP, and 2) a more "over the shoulder" camera angle, instead of full isometric elevation, i might be heaven.
nonetheless OP here, and im trying tanks in both LOTRO and GW2 over the next week so we will see. Destiny 2 as well. likeing this
i'm de-recommending gw2 to you. you'll probably have fun on a first playthrough through the story and all (even though it's written like shit) but the rest of the game is unbelievably tedious and grindy. play as much as you can without spending money on it, maybe spend money on the expansions themselves, leave the rest
There's no current mmo released in the west.
I'm waiting for either odin or hit 2 to come but they aren't coming to the west.
Albion is 90% the same game as Eve +actual gameplay
Vscape time capsule inhabited by asylum patients
>convince me to play RTS
>but im too lazy to control more than my own prick
>and i need to see people doing work so i can micromanage and criticize them
maybe its a good thing you stopped playing games
the one game that comes to mind for you is genshin impact, unironically and unsarcastically check it out
Oldschool Runescape
>no formal roles.
There's really not much out there in terms of MMORPG choices. Just the way things are now a days. There's been plenty of threads on why this is.
>Holy Trinity
There's not a lot of super active MMORPGs that have this and are new
>Oldies
You've got all the ones you see mentioned a ton of times before.Lotro, DDO, etc. They have small but active populations. You wont see anything close to WoW, FF14, or even Gw2 populations. But they're there
>New World
Probably the closest modern one? Its very actiony combat. Slightly like a souls like game but not really? Hard to describe. But PvE does have healer and tank roles. Healing is quite weird if you're looking for something like WoW. There's skillshots and reliance on AoEs to be a good healer.Tanking is about managing agro, energy, and blocking status. I mainly play tanking/healing when I do play this game. For tanking the "meta" is greatsword or sword/shield as your main weapon. A flail and shield weapon is coming in October. Healing you've got this void gauntlet, "life staff", and the flail is supposed to have some support capabilities. There are some other weapons that have taunt capabilities. Like you can make a "dodge" tank, but I've never tried it.
>Gw2
This game does have roles mind you, but yeah they're not holy trinity roles. Pretty funny they designed the combat to be "not holy trinity". And another holy trinity just rose to take its place (just not tank/healer/dps). However in recent years they've put a lot of dev into allowing 'Full blown healers". There's even a single target healer now.
>ESO
Again this game does have roles. A lot of the content is fairly easy. Not till you get to vet dungeons/raids that you will see a much greater focus on needing roles. But you absolutely need to have a tank/healer/dps design.
Again there's not much out there. Only other ones I can think of are SWTOR maybe? Secret world? SWTOR is another smaller pop. Secret world is even smaller.
Is your heart really set on an mmo? There are plenty of deep multiplayer games out there that might scratch a similar itch. Something with account progression and numbers to go up?
PoE - Deep Rock - Tarkov - Rust - Payday 2
If you need something to hit the spot of social + progression you might have to get creative. Unless you're willing to play a very small game you might have to try new things.
You didnt mention FF14. Its a fine game.
>Single player game with live service MMO jank tacked on
>"b-but the raids are good"
My brother in christ WOW style raids were outdated in 2004 when Monster Hunter got online play the same year, the only interesting spectacle about a raid is getting 20-50 bros together to kill an uber boss as a community, dodging groundfire with 8 people is the gayest shit ever
GREEN DPS
BLUE DPS
RED DPS
They did tho: they were just so moronic that they typed XI instead.
Anyone who has ever played XI can look at OP's post and instantly see that it's about XIV.
>ESO
>no formal roles
Yes it has, go to the Group & Activity finder and select your role.
Classes are different from roles, and every class has 3 skill trees and skill morphs where each of them suits at a specific role.
DOFUS Unity when it releases
Have you tried SWTOR? In my opinion, it's the best f2p. The entire base game (up to level 60) is free.
It's theme park but the whole thing is FULLY VOICE ACTED.
Are you looking for something truly unique and willing to tolerate bad graphics and a very small community? -> Project Gorgon https://store.steampowered.com/app/342940/Project_Gorgon/
Are you looking for something unique but popular? -> Old School Runescape
Are you looking for Runescape's life skilling but on a super high budget and Dark Soulsy combat where if you don't pay attention you'll fricking die all the time? -> New World
Do you want horizontal progression where your time and money is respected? -> Guild Wars 2
Do you want the best depiction of Tolkien in a visual medium even if it means settling for 2007-2011 graphics? -> The Lord of the Rings Online
Do you want a really solid PvP MMO? -> Warhammer Return of Reckoning
Do you want a sandbox MMO? -> Ultima Online Renaissance/Outlands or Star Wars Galaxies
>can not recommend: World of Warcraft, FFXIV, The Elder Scrolls Online (due to lack of difficulty scaling in the open world content), Black Desert or ArcheAge
If you have any questions just ask.Anything else not on the list, just ask. I've played them all.
SWTOR is worth running through once or twice. It plays like a Bioware RPG. Arguably some of the best stuff they've ever done but I wouldn't go into it with the assumption that you're gonna stick around.
>on of Tolkien in a visual medium even if it means settlin
oh shit anon, op here, forgot about the return to warhammer servers!!! that might just fit the bill.
There's actually a RoR competitor in development that is basically taking the "classic+" approach which will have a lot more custom content and features. Much more heavy handed approach.
Guardian is cool but may I sway you into considering Warden? Ace of all trades but has the highest skill ceiling therefore the most potential for mediocrity. Best and most fun class mechanic.
>Do you want horizontal progression where your time and money is respected? -> Guild Wars 2
KEK
the grind the game puts you through is so fricking insane you would think it was your day job. frick off with this "analysis"
>hit level 80 12 years ago
>log in today
>do the latest expansion content, dungeons and raids
The frick are you talking about?
Same. Mortal Online 2 is too autistic for me and I think the audience for it is too old for that kind of thing.
>can not recommend WOW/FFXIV/ESO
>but can recommend Gorgon/New World/SWG
HAHAHAHAHAHA
I can't recommend WoW because it's shit
I can't recommend XIV because it's more of a visual novel than video game
I can't recommend ESO because of lack of difficulty scaling
I can recommend those games because they're games and don't get ruined because you played too much or ran out of content. I don't expect zoomer morons to understand the sentiment.
tbh new world is better than these 3, even if the game itself is mediocre
tbh I'm loving New World after the expansion. Every issue I had with the game was fixed. Better loot systems, better progression, mounts feel great, lots of content between the elysian wilds and brimstone sands
>Project Gorgon
Going to try the demo, the description makes it seem interesting
Isn't this made by a bunch of discord troons that have zero PR ability? I've heard the GMs are banhappy.
Personally, I'm a fan of Aardwolf. I doubt it'll scratch the itch you're looking for though.
Seconded, Aardwolf is fricking great. Best tutorial system I've ever seen, and a really vivid world for a MUD without being long winded. Friendly people too when I played it long ago. I'm glad to hear it's still around.
Play Uncharted Waters Online
Sailing MMO with emphasis on exploration and trading, which also happens to be oozing with SOUL and comfy music
Looks lonely. Post more comfy pics. How does exploring work?
It's VERY comfy and surprisingly lively in starter areas at least
Exploration is gated by story missions in the form of port permits. You need port permits to dock at certain cities and you get them from specific missions
World design and art style in general is peak soul though
Thanks anon, I'm going to try this out.
Asheron's Call has a healthy emulator community for what it's worth. Not to nitpick but it isn't full loot. On death you drop your most valuable item, which is usually a gemstone or some other treasure you carry just for that purpose, i.e. you don't lose your favorite weapon etc. or have to bank all your best gear when some gank squad is roaming around.
Holy frick I remember playing this years ago and raiding a dungeon under a church, maybe I should give it another try
Downloaded it today and tried it out. It's criminal how comfy games like these ones are the ones that didn't make it. Great music, great atmosphere, great artstyle. But the towns feel very lifeless and I'm chalking it up to a fatal lack of players. With more players and a bigger budget, this would BTFO so many current MMOs.
>surprisingly lively in starter areas at least
I can appreciate your hustle and shilling is a thankless job, but yeah no it's very much dead. I walked around some pretty damn empty streets.
project gorgon
based gorgon chad
linked it already but I'm glad I'm not the only one here playing this shit
OP here again. thanks for suggestions all.
having downlaoded warframe, destiny 2, LOTRO, GW2(again), im now going to try EQ2, and RoR.
i cant fathom how ppl like gw2. i really cant. its so superficial and vapid. combat sucks too.
For gw2, yeah the combat can be rough depending on how you play it. There's a lot of different builds that can play vastly different from one another. So its sorta a "make a build that you have fun with" game for me personally. Frick the meta. Game isn't that hard anyways. I usually shift around between summoner necro, full healing reverent/specter, turret engineer, or tankish guardian.
I think the combat is pretty good in gw2. As an elementalist i can switch between fire electricity ice and earth, i have different abilities for each element then those abilities change again when you switch weapons
swtor's fine, only mmo i can tolerate
unfortunately DDO can't really be remade with a graphical overhaul because WotC would force whoever's making the relaunch into making a 5E game which basically kills what's so interesting about character building in DDO and character building is the main thing that's kept it going.
Maplestory I guess, you have support classes, damage, and tanks, 2d, lots of bosses and reboot server for easy reboot progression, has a world a meh story, but lots of quests to do, pretty easy brain dead kgrinder
>ESO
ESO sucks.
There are lots of things to hate about ESO but one thing it does right is making it so everyone can play together and no place is abandoned. The big PvP game is also superb. You can spend almost all your time there if you want and not do any PvE.
>The big PvP game is also superb
There is nothing like it but I wouldn't call it good.
Whats the best or most populous server to play on for LOTRO?
>best
Laurelin, even if you aren't a roleplayer the community is great
>most populous
Arkenstone/Gladden/Crickhollow are populated quite highly for US, Evernight and Laurelin for EU.
Lost Ark has a returner event
Do I have to do the shitty msq?
nope you get any set of your choosing and boosted to lvl 55 + 1415
ive completed the event and at 1545 now
>FFXI - No, its one theme park ride after another with no exploration. just run into party finder, run dungeon, rinse repeat......
You mean FFXIV. You should try FF11 and on the Horizon server.
Looking for a full loot pvp game like Asheron's Call or Ultima Online.
I'm inclined to try Mortal Online 2 but i don't think it's going to run well with my old GPU.
pls no Albion
Im also interested
normies hate those so the are super uncommon.
MO2 is pure fricking kino, just a time sink i cannot afford. im older, have a career. I started it when i had surgery last year, and it was A LOT of grinding, in each and every aspect. you cant kill anything short of the intro cemetary without hours to dump in to make some armor and move forward.
game is insane, just cant require that much time.
try puzzle pirates
I think the Koreans could make a great MMO if they ever get over their hardon for cancerous monetization
how expensive is lotro and what can you tell me about gw2? is it gonna die in the near future?
Lotro is free and gw2 just released a new xpac
>what can you tell me about gw2? is it gonna die in the near future?
NTA but GW2 is $100+, to get a good experience about $200+. It's at least $100 to buy all the content ($50 for the three expansions and then another $50 to buy the patch content in between expansions), and then you need to spend at least another $100 on essential utilities. You then need to buy a few massive QoL improvements like extra bag slots, at least one extra bank tab, and then maybe 1 or 2 more character build slots. And then you're probably going to drop $40 on a raptor and flying mount skin since all mount skins come from the cash shop and a mount skin costs $20. You might also pay a little more beyond that to buy some nice looking armor or weapons off of the cash shop (again the best looking stuff is from there), and lastly you might buy a Thousand Seas Pavilion pass to access the most useful hub in the game since all of bank/crafting stations/auction houses/etc are all right next to each other.
Laying down $200 once to play GW2 sure beats having to pay $210+ each year to play WoW or FFXIV, where you have to buy a $60 box expansion every other year, pay $15 per month, and then ALSO have cash shops to deal with on top. GW2 is definitely the best value proposition of the big three MMOs. I am playing WoW atm but will unsub in a couple months. I haven't seriously played FF14 in over a year but I'm still subbed because I don't want to lose my house and if I do it's unlikely I will ever get a good plot again, and I don't want to spend hours trying to glitch items back into position.
1/2
2/2
WoW has the best aesthetics, responsive combat, and PvP is fun. Mythic+ (speedrunning the same 8 dungeons over and over on a progressively higher difficulty) is kinda fun but gets old after a while. Still has the biggest MMO RP scene.
GW2 has the best animations (they feel weighty), nice combat, and is the easiest to jump in and just do stuff, but once you beat the story and get all the masteries there isn't that much left to do. The 5v5 PvP is okay but gets boring after a while because the maps are too small and all play the same. WvW is fun in small doses but the game mode has been neglected by the devs and doesn't have long term staying power.
FF14 is a 400+ hour long visual novel, and the writing starts going downhill after Stormblood. FF14 has the worst combat. There is no class customization and the combat is sluggish and non responsive. It also has the least amount of endgame content. Once you reach level cap and beat the story, there is nothing to do. You can go old expansion's grind zones like Eureka or Bozja but once you finish those, that's it and the devs aren't adding more.
>WoW has the best aesthetics, responsive combat, and PvP is fun
>NTA but GW2 is $100+, to get a good experience about $200+. It's at least $100 to buy all the content ($50 for the three expansions and then another $50 to buy the patch content in between expansions), and then you need to spend at least another $100 on essential utilities. You then need to buy a few massive QoL improvements like extra bag slots, at least one extra bank tab, and then maybe 1 or 2 more character build slots. And then you're probably going to drop $40 on a raptor and flying mount skin since all mount skins come from the cash shop and a mount skin costs $20.
Jesus christ. Just get New World and the expansion instead, you can also probably pick up some gear slots and it would still be less than $100 all in.
>reads 2/2
oh wait never mind, you're a wowbuck. carry on.
"wowbuck" is zivvie lingo, you exposed yourself xister.
New World has the best combat but no content, hence the price point. If we're talking pure value proposition, GW2 still reigns supreme.
it would have infinite content if it leaned into pvp more....
I can play Ragnarok because of this, it's always pvp that gets me. I kinda wanna get into Lineage 2 because I heard it has cool large scale pvp.
>RF online
hello SEA
I fricking miss this game, open world pvp was one of the best pvp experiences I had in any mmo. Raiding those stupid dwarfs just to wait for their big daddies BMAUs to appear and then just explode those things with my lvl 50 isis was better than doing drugs
lmao this game is more expensive than bdo wtf
>I still play for Troonfantasy 14 because muh house
>Just pay $200 for a "good" experience in an ancient game
>I am paying for WoW but will unsub soon I swear
Holy frick the absolute state...
>ESO
>every expac is literally the same shit
>combat is literally so brainless you can use a controller
>pay shitty monthly fee so you can do anything
>or spend $400 to buy all raids and shit which no one even does
It's fricking over for MMOs...
>or spend $400 to buy all raids and shit which no one even does
and you STILL have to pay for the monthly sub if you want access to the craft bag, which is essential if you want to craft anything at all
with the new mini-expansion stuff they started and just the general way of things are going I can totally see most of the playerbase dwindling and only mostly casuals or people who spent too much time on it already staying
this is moronic because by the time you get through all the content given by purchasing the game you can easily get so much gold that you can buy the QoL stuff and episodic season content. some of them they may even give out free or discount in the ingame store while you are playing.
>And then you're probably going to drop $40 on a raptor and flying mount skin
yeah, moronic
>The 5v5 PvP is okay but gets boring after a while because the maps are too small and all play the same
yep, totally
Play Dofus
Bet you've never done Harebourg
Fact is "open world PvP" where people involuntarily get randomly shanked and permanently lose their stuff is a terrible idea.
No one said anything about open world PVP that isn't opt in 🙂
Only that PVP is the ultimate end game and without it your game is doomed to fail unless its extreme coomer bait
I'm new to wakfu and I see dofus is from the same company. Is it better?
Wakfu is newer and may run smoother but it's considered worse than Dofus because Dofus is simply an older game with more content, more population and more fleshed out systems. While Wakfu initially when released tried to develop new systems for players to enjoy they've since scaled back many of those systems from what I've heard
(Planting monsters, farming, Haven Worlds, Minting, Player Politics).
I've only played Wakfu to 60 but I've finished a lot of Dofus up to max level 200. Despite Wakfu being the newer game Dofus is clearly their bigger game that has more attention. And with Dofus Unity is going to be newer in quality, graphics and performance.
This might be inaccurate but an example of how Dofus may be better than Wakfu is comparison to their map design. Since by lore Wakfu's world is basically Dofus but after Ogrest's Chaos where the majority of the land has since been submerged.
https://dofusdb.fr/en/tools/map
Yeah I've since tried out Dofus and it seems a lot more polished and playable to me in many aspects. But the performance was worrying, yeah. Does anyone know when the Unity port is coming out?
Early next year
Yeah Dofus performance is rpetty bad for how simple it is. But if you know some things it becomes manageable. Clearing your cache, making sure your GPU is rendering it via something like Nvidia control panel, running it in Full Screen Windows and assigning it high priority on Task Manager should make it better.
Ah, I'm on Linux actually. To be honest it's not that the performance is bad, it's just that it really gets my fans spinning and my CPU temps hover around 67-71 degrees Celsius. I was confused at first because I thought there was no way such a simple game could work my computer like that, but the more I know I suppose. I'll try out the Unity version next year.
New players always have safe zones and there are tons of systems to protect them from unwanted PvP. The only full loot PvP MMOs worth picking up right now are Eve and Albion. Nobody plays these old PvP MMOs that allow you to bully new players anymore.
EVE is the most newbro friendly MMO on the market right now its not even funny.
It just doesn't cater to solo trannies
Even though you are multiboxing with 10 alts, you are still solo
I like FF11
MMOS suck
god I wish tree of savior were a better game
I love its style but it's just such a dumpster fire of bad decisions
If you want to play PvP then Dofus is a good choice. My last AvA was massive with 100 players all around. You'd literally see a giant line of Battle-Swords on the map indicating combat between 2 or more players.
>albion online has barely 100 players
Albion has became very depopulated in recent years but I still believe it will make a come back
I wish new world would be more like albion + runescape. The gathering and farming mats part of the game is probably the best one in any mmo I played, such a waste
Gathering and farming are leftovers from the game New World was supposed to be, vestigial for a typical WOW clone where crafting is worthless compared to dungeon farms
>mining iron veins sounds in a canyon type area
They added open world zones that only solo players can enter.
As a solo player without a guild you don't even enter a regular blackzone anymore. That place is for guilds.
Have you tried Return of Reckoning?
Yeah its alright. Outside of some gear designs the game looks like shit though.
I'm still playing FFXI retail. It's nice to relax with my Xbox controller and a drink and find something to do, the amount of content is overwhelming and there's still people playing all day long.
Rift
why an MMO, OP?
Eve is picking up a lot of steam.
All the basic issues remain and won't be given the dev attention because CCP is mainly working on other projects and it's simpler to just release mtx trash and copypasta fomo events to placate the care bear morons still playing.
>wants soulless role trinity homosexualry
>doesn't want a soulless theme park of teleporting from instance to instance (the thing role trinity was made for)
can you make your fricking mind up anon
if you want to chop your balls off play FFXIV, if you want a good game then look somewhere that doesn't do role trinity shit. I suggest EQ, FFXI, or lotro.
I tried to come back to maplestory but I just got blackpilled again cuz I'm a wagie and I don't have the time to no life a game that some progression systems can last 8 months or more. Of course I could come back to my old reggie account but I literally don't have the means to drop 100$ or 200$ monthly on that shit anymore. I just want a silly MMO to play at my own pace, I'm fine with sweating but I don't want second jobs like lost ark. I got in before there was any substantial gatekeeping and it's just a homosexual second job I hate it because the devs are homosexuals. I was willing to put up with maplestory since it was my gateway MMO and there's a nostalgia factor reeling me in but it's so what's the point... Going to have to play a year minimum to take a step out of a beginner stage and have to do it on like 9 other characters. Not like I didn't do it in reggie when I was a fricking NEET but I can't do that anymore
Guess I'm waiting for a new mmo or something because I refuse to play gachashit or another asiatic game ffs. Maybe I'll touch ffxiv again
>log in to new world
>story quests missing
>rendering bug making mobs invisible until you walk up to them
for all the real human beings in here, don't fall for the shills.
Works on my machine sounds like a (You) problem
sure thing ranjeet, this even happened on shroud's streams for thousands of people to laugh at new world's expense. amazon can't even fix their game for their paid streamers to shill the game properly.
shroud couldn't get a heartrune, so fricking what. it's miniscule in the grand scheme of things.
If you rework your entire game into a basic b***h WOW clone the WOW clone aspects better at least be functional.
>heartrune
>powerful game-changing extra ability in a game that literally only has 6 abilities
>minuscule
Jesus Christ. I'm enjoying the game but I'm actually starting to believe there really are shills for it. You can still like the game and admit that it's shit how players can't access what is essentially an ultimate ability going on 3 weeks now.
try playing minewind shit is gonna be huge in a few years
>minewind
looks like another shitty minecraft server with p2w cashshop, which is against Mojangs TOS btw
>make potentially good game
>repurpose it to cater to the blizzdrone audience
>game becomes shit
bravo, amazon
runescape is always the answer
What's the closest MMO to SWTOR except newer?
I really appreciate the cutscenes, actual main story and even dialogue choices of SWTOR but want something a little different than star wars.
Have you considered just playing regular RPGs? You're effectively playing a single player game with live service dogshit attached, get rid of the live service and just play a single player RPG like Baldur's Gate
single player games feel lonely 🙁
DA:I is the only game that has MMO combat
MMO combat isn't good.
The truth is you will never find the MMO you're searching for. SJW buzzards and Asmongold clones will consume every new MMO and push companies to pander to the lowest common denominator, themselves. This is because MMOs have become the safe space for degenerate, hedonistic wagies of the world. They don't have to think about their shitty job at Walmart and the terrible home life they created when they can live in a game. This foster's a community of failed human beings not playing a game for fun, but for an escape from responsibility.
My recommendation to you, anon, is to find a real life hobby. It's over. It's never coming back. Pick up a sport or outdoor activity. You won't be able to find another good MMO because you know the truth.
mmotards btfo
>after 7 months DOTA free.
Congrats
multiplayer morrowind on openmw. not kidding, it is a great and functional mmo experience on a populated server. otherwise, maybe phantasy star online?
The conversation was about non opt in PvP. There are people that are upset that they can't just run around PKing anyone they want in an MMO. When pvp isn't opt in you can't always PvE when you want to because there's someone at max level one shotting you every time you step out of town.
It especially becomes a problem when a game gets more and more content and there are older areas without many veteran players in them. So, if you're a newbie catching up on old content and one PKer decides to come along and spawn camp you, you're likely not getting any help.
This is the main reason, only reason I might even argue, that it doesn't work. Open PvP absolutely worked in vanilla and TBC WoW, and even benefited from ganking and corpse camping, because the endgame people always showed up and the result was a big satisfying fight. But people forget that this was opt-in by way of server selection, and also faction-based with a much greater faction divide than you see today. No common language, considerable distance between faction territories, no alts on the other side. It was fricking great and they ruined it. Classic didn't really address that problem either. Classic has always been full of WoW superfans. WoW's world PvP relied on a population of casuals slow boating through the game. One or two levels per WEEK. I had a huge guild, just one of many, where we had a big push to try and reach level 58 in time for TBC. If you were level 60 it was like you were one of the cool seniors, and one of your duties was to protect other players in your faction.
open pvp only works on fresh starts/server wipes because people start on an open slate and if you get left behind it's not too bad because it will get wiped anyway, just have to hop on at the beginning though. this also sort of kills the mmo aspect since what's the point if you have to keep starting over.
>open PVP only works on servers where nolifers can beat casual players
Yeah no, open PVP only works when it isn't a shitty grindfest like ladder reset shit.
Games that require constant resets fricking suck dick and are antithetical to the MMO concept to begin with since the persistant world element is removed.
>Open PvP absolutely worked in vanilla and TBC WoW, and even benefited from ganking and corpse camping, because the endgame people always showed up and the result was a big satisfying fight. But people forget that this was opt-in by way of server selection, and also faction-based with a much greater faction divide than you see today. No common language, considerable distance between faction territories, no alts on the other side.
I don't understand why this can't be a thing. I've never actually played much of wow before but what's the problem with owpvp if the zones are huge and players are separated by factions and territories? Everyone always makes the argument about griefers but will shoot down every idea to remediate that issue, people nowadays are weird and refuse to believe that open world pvp can work in an MMO without it being griefer's paradise.
PvP tards don't want just any open world pvp, they want full loot and crippling death penalties with no pve servers so casuals have to get through their bullshit.
Full loot pvp is really gay, imo only works in something like foxhole where the loot doesn't matter to the average player since it's not something they had to grind for and never have to grind for if they don't want to. The idea of full loot pvp in a game that has mandatory grinding and isn't based around a common war effort is kinda moronic. Wish there was foxhole but in a fantasy setting and I'd be happy
Full loot (or rather let's say 50% destroyed and 50% dropped) is the requirement for good PVP because it puts price/performance and risk/reward equations into the play, keeps gearing honest and gives rewards to actively hunting others.
I find it quite funny with this game is that we're re-experiencing lessons that were taught by this genre years ago.
>Node Situation
nodes constantly being down if the game is popular. Made worse by raising pop cap of servers. So they have to choose between less queues or less resources to be shared among gatherers. Until they figure out a better way to do it. Feels like Gw2 solved this issue. Yeah player specific nodes are a bummer. But even in WoW back when I played this was an issue with bots camping resource nodes.
>PvP sweaty and tryhards dunking on everyone
Yeap, yet another tally in the mark of why full pvp mmorpgs rarely work and are hard to get popular. I do kind of wish they put in a parry system if heavy armor and maybe even medium. Where if you time your block against an attack (and only with a shield or specific melee weapons like the rapier), then it would do something special. It would take endurance. To give something more...interesting than just the dodge meta. I don't see that never being the meta with this games combat.
But yeah the overall theme of the game is so stupid. They're trying too hard to be unique. They take pre-established well polished themes and try to do something different. Flail is a good example. Obviously a paladin weapon. But hey, lets make it do arcane damage and purple special effects. Fricking why. Then all the armor has to be this "Halloween party" look for whatever reason. They're getting better in this regard, but first 2 years it was rough.
I can't figure out what game this post was about. New World? BO2?
new world, but the guy is a complete moron. The game is bad but not for these reasons
FFXIV
just ignore the community that's 90% troons
hardly an rpg and they're killing the mmo part. next.
>Ganker has a game dev thread
>/vg/ has a game dev thread
>Ganker has a game dev thread
>/vrpg/ has a game dev thread
We need a /vm/ game dev thread let's make the ultimate MMO together, the search is over.
Already making it. Don't need any of you, it'll be somewhat ready to show off in 2-3 years:^)
Business model will be innovative to say the least. It's designed from the ground up to be the fairest free2play game ever made.
It's a garbage dying genre, why even bother? MMORPGs are all about promise and little actual delivery.
Its not really dying as much as its simply going through an identiy crisis.
Too many homosexuals drank the WOW koolaid that MMO = Mindless instanced grindshit and all MMOs that try to copy WOTLK fail to go anywhere because WOTLK had 10 million players to feed into the instanced to slow burn, even the most popular MMO since WOTLK, FF14, barely reached 1/10th of the active playerbase which is why they needed to start adding NPCs party members for new players to do content with.
I'm waiting for Odin Valhala rising and HIT2 to come to the west.
I'm sick of black desert.
Too bad, they are never getting a release.
It's only black desert.
the mordhau rpg mod could've been the mmorpg we all want if people cared
The thing is, you aren't pursuing a mmo. You're pursuing your fond childhood memories.
I doubt any game can replicate that.
This post is as real as it gets
MMOs are always flawed. As a 30 year old who grew up on OSRS and played literally 20+ MMOs afterwards throughout my life, MMOs were always about grindan', getting cool classes, and the novelty of playing with others, making friends, and playing with those friends.
The only way to continuously find meaning in MMOs is to grind, to grasp for a goal. That's why MMOs are infinitely grindy, because you'll always have a reason to aim for something if you click and press buttons. But eventually you'll fall out. Grind is always what kills an MMO, and if not the grind, then its boredom because there's no content to do until another patch.
When we were kids we had all the time in the world, no one cared about "wasting time" or "using my time efficiently" as a kid, because we had all the time in the world. But the reality is that MMOs are DESIGNED to waste your time, because they generate unrealistic grind-heavy goals that will either have you waste your time, or your wallet.
We're adults now. It's time to wake up. MMOs always sucked, it's just that as kids we had more time, lower standards, and things seemed newer back then. The shining paint has wore off and it's never coming back.
The only people who play MMOs every single day are either kids, people who have too much time, or failed human beings who treat MMOs like Second Life and live in their virtual reality homes because their life sucks like what
anon said.
There's no doubt that Raph Koster/CCP/Pearl Abyss could put out a next generation sandbox non-pay2win MMO and I'd enjoy it just as much as I did other games. Project Gorgon, Star Citizen, Star Wars Galaxies, Asherons' Call, EVE and UO are still enjoyable. It's a themepark vs sandbox problem.
I think its not even a themepark vs sandbox issue either. Even themeparks are suffering due to an oversimplification of game design. Like if I want to play a big frickoff sandbox MMO, the last thing I want is speedrun hallways to be the main content, I want frick huge worlds with quests to do and dungeons to explore, the queue based matchmaking shit in MMOs is cancer.
I actually agree as someone that despised themeparks for 20+ years. Everquest was at least tolerable. Everything that came afterwards is absolute shit.
the game with the best open pvp was RF online but I doubt anyone here even played
my filipinos coworkers run an rf online server, is it really that good?
I played until the BMAU/RMAU update and was great, after that I remember the official servers getting extremely p2w. Keep in mid that only the open world pvp was well done everything else was flawed
I always thought Ran online is neat because school setting.
Throne and Liberty should have been released already but that also turned out to be a lie.
I guess this really is the end of mmos.
Last I heard amazon forced everyone to make a non disclosure agreement on the beta and died there.
Look, if you do this, it's pretty much a given you're trying something scummy or hiding something.
sir, that had nothing to do with amazon games. the truth is that the game throne and liberty was have to rework its combat hence the delay. it is the fault of the throne and liberty developers and not amazon. thank you.
Nobody wants open world PvP because MMOs are solo grinding games now. You need to fricking let go of WoW if you want open world PvP. Just let go. Let it go. Stop looking for more WoW clones and we can finally start having good MMOs again. For frick's sake.
Wanting to play a PvP MMO is essentially a choice between EVE and Foxhole. I'd recommend Foxhole over EVE.
Play wildstar private server.
There isn't a single (at least) somewhat developed Wildstar private server out there.
New World is unironically the best MMO out right now. It has modern graphics and interactive combat, and a nice community feeling which is ironically thanks to the jank and the developers being slow to implement party finder and matchmaking features. I'm just worried they're making it too solo friendly, they are already making solo alternatives to progressing in the story expeditions instead of running expeditions with other players. Also proximity voice chat is a massive feature in terms of making the game feel social, it cannot be understated and wish it was standard in other MMOs.
New World is this generation's Meridian 59, it is a prototype of the next generation of MMOs. Whoever can perfect New World's formula and avoid a catastrophic launch will have the next Ultima Online on their hands.
>tank and spank mashing
>'interactive combat'
New World gays really are just nu-WOWgays
And it's still better than the antiquated tab-targeting or pseudo-action-combat alternatives (see GW2/ESO/BDO). I'm not saying it's great, but it's definitely best in class which says more about the genre than anything else.
Its shit, how the frick is this the 'next gen MMO" when its the same instanced dogshit tank and spank ability spam.
Its fricking boring and shit, like Monster Hunter has been doing the whole instanced boss fighting genre better for almost 20 years now.
Come back with claims about a 'next gen MMO" when it doesn't just look like WOW again.
Jesus christ is this a fricking phone game what the frick is that UI.
Monster Hunter isn't a fricking MMO, and for what its worth the fact that it's even being compared to it is a compliment. You call that video shit but it's still better than any other MMO out right now.
I agree that I don't w ant it to be a theme park. The community kept it alive primarily because of PvP, but I think if they can master the open world then I can tolerate theme park stuff.
>Better than any MMO out right now
Not even, new world has less players than fricking EVE Online, a 20 year old MMO with actual dogshit gameplay, but is still leaps and bounds better interactivity and MMO gameplay than fricking New World.
>argumentum ad populum
not an argument
I mean if you're only going to have a couple thousand players they should all be on a single server and not running fricking instances.
its 2023, your MMO shouldn't have less players in its core content than fricking Path of Exile groups.
>bdo is pseudo-action combat
can't agree, BDO is dogshit for many reasons but can't say the combat has much to do with it outside of the lag and class balance. GW2/ESO are more in line with each other since it's a lot of ugly floaty animations where the upper torso and legs move independently of each other. Games where people can throw out attacks and walk around at the same time just look like shit and I unironically might check out NW because it doesn't have hideous animations and combat where everyone is strafing in the middle of a fight.
The problem is that the definition of MMOs have been warped for the past 2 decades. New World follows more of an old-school feeling, I agree. There's less focus on lore and story elements, and more emphasis of the communities in the server itself. It's just a different school of thought, some people want to role-play in a pre-established world and its own lore, and others want to collaborate with other players in the server to create its own culture. I prefer the latter tbh although I recognize this has become a super minority opinion which is why MMOs cater to the former with their theme parks.
My guy, New World is the defintion of themepark MMO.
Just because it replaced auto attack with left click spam doesn't mean its anything different.
>There's less focus on lore and story elements
Not anymore, New World is leaning into the story stuff which is funny because nobody pays attention to it. The reason the community focuses more on itself instead of the lore is because the game was released in an incomplete state.
>MMOs cater to the former with their theme parks.
New World is a theme park.
Yep, they finally put in the time and effort to transition into a full WOW clone after the hackjob of a release they did when they transitioned last minute from an MMO into a themepark ARPG.
lol new world really makes this site seethe, you finally get the paradigm shift you've been begging for in MMOs and you rebuke it.
>shit WOW clone
>paradigm shift
new world gays are fricking moronic lmao
Its this moronic thinking is why the genre is fricking dead
it can't be a wowclone for the last time its combat system is revolutionary just because it has dungeons doesn't make it a wowclone you sped
>its combat system is revolutionary
>Litterally just removed auto attack and replaced it with m1 click spam
Tera did this
Vindictus did this
FFXIV 1.0 did this
stop, being, moronic, your combat is not 'interactive', because your right click is a shield, you're still ability spamming tank and spanking through speedrun hallways, its a fricking WOW clone, stop pretending otherwise.
at least you have to aim your attacks and get a dodge with i-frames. just because you think it's shit doesn't change the fact that others are even worse than it.
direct me the thread you meant to post this in, also speaking of riot i wonder how their mmo will turn out
Cool, your combat as the basic elements of a PS2 game from 15 years ago that multiple games have already done better and ultimately failed because that novelty doesn't make a good MMO. Not revolutionary in the slightest.
In your opinion, what makes a good MMO?
1: Every class needs to interact with the encounter/pull, not just the tank, damage isn't a role, damage is the bare bones requirement of the game as you're just killing shit
2: Dungeons should be long and interesting crawls, not speedrun hallways for numbers go up gameplay, doing the same shit with bigger numbers is fricking boring
3: Goals in game need to be achievable and time gates simply shouldn't be a thing, i'd prefer a long as frick autism grind that ends instead of an infinity grind
4: Items and builds needs to be interactive and interesting, numbers go up stat sticks are fricking boring, grinding your ilvl/expertise bigger is dogshit design, make items interesting so I can give a frick about them
5: 5 man instances is not a fricking MMO, stop this shit, its 2023, your game shouldn't be worse than WOW was in 2004
Any anons playing mo2 ? :3 sad there's no 4chsn guild yet
>grew up playing many MMOs because of the enjoyment of meeting interesting, fun people from around the world while exploring a cool fantasy setting
>try doing the same these days, whether in a modern MMO or a classic MMO's private server
>players barely talk, everybody already has their friend groups, never really feel like I have much in common with other players even when we get along and don't really ever run into anybody interesting
>go play a singleplayer RPG with fun, well written party members instead
Did MMO players become less fun to be around or do I just like the average person less now that I'm older? Anybody else feel this way?
both. games like roblox are unironically better if you're looking for more 'social' communities. mmorpgs are full of jaded boomers.
>classic MMO's private server
Hard to believe you played a classic MMO private server (not wow, wow is not a classic ffs) and had no social interactions.
Catering to the asian MMO market was a mistake, they're all shut in anti-social fricks who will mass report anyone who talks.
Also doesn't help people have gone from actually chatting and hanging out in-game to migrating a bulk of the socializing to a third party spyware data-harvesting platform.
>Join us on Discord!
gonna try it out what am i in for
Click on wood, click on stone, spam click on animals
40 hours later you run this game's version of mythic+ ad nauseum with premade builds and numbers go up progression.
>what am I in for
Here you go
>combat
For all its praises, it's average. Block, light/heavy attack, dodge distance depending on armor weight. It gives a false sense of depth and becomes repetitive. Small skirmishes are good but large scale fights are just zerg trash.
>graphics are a weird mix of realistic, and cartoony.
It will age poorly kind of like the obsession games had with lens flare back in the early 2010s.
>weapon trees are boring as frick
I don't think 3 abilities per weapon are bad, but you literally only have 6 to choose from and each tree is shoehorned into a certain playstyle.
>mobs are laughably easy
To be expected from PvE themepark but it's a waste of the combat and leaves much to be desired
>gathering/fishing
probably the best part of the game tbh
It's not the >paradigm shift of mmos, but it's completely serviceable. Easily a top 5 MMO by virtue of how fricking cursed the genre is right now, arguably top 2 after WoW.
Biggest issue with 'action combat' is that they don't use the 'action' part to make it more interactive, only less, and instead focus more on button mashing hyper combos.
Every single game that has implemented action combat has failed to add in any real interactivity other than some basic half baked shit some slav jank RPG tried 10+ years ago, they're never on the level of Monster Hunter because they're afraid autistic zoomers will get mad at actual interactive action combat, nor do they want to return to MMO roots where your spells and abilities actually had real functions, like multiple forms of crowd control besides AOE infinite threat tanking that just devolves into a zerging cleavefest. Faster isn't nessisarily more engaging, and adding a random "frick you" mutator to a dungeon like WOW and New World does just punishes players with non-interactive mechanics that just force you to go slow
Also no matter how much 'action combat' ability they give the players, the NPCs continue to act as the same dumb as shit AOE shitting auto attacking homosexual design from 1999 because they're also scared of getting rid of the terrible trinity of tired mechanics, such as tank threat, and giving monsters proper AI like you would see in Monster Hunter where you're not always attacking the highest 'threat' target, and forcing players to actually engage with the fight instead of forcing them to engage in an awkard game of DDR damage rotation.
Vindictus is the closest thing there is to a good action combat MMO. It's a better, more faster-paced Monster Hunter, only instead of fighting big monsters you're usually fighting big humans. Blocking and dodging attacks in Vindictus still feels better than any other game because it rewards you for knowing the bosses' attack patterns (which are random) and letting you punish accordingly.
The game has a dozen other problems, but for action-oriented PvE boss fights, it's still the best 13 years later.
Vindictus is miles behind Monster Hunter, even when it came out, and while the combat is better than modern trinity shit, the fact that vindictus isn't an MMO holds that fact back hard.
have you ever tried new world?
New world is a prime example of exactly what I said.
it really isn't but ok
mabinogi before they fricked it even though windmill kinda throws a wrench into everything to begin with
meant for
DFO (Dungeon Fighter Online), the only "P2W" mmo-rpg you'll never win just by swiping, the core gameplay loop is literally based on how well you can pilot your characters, the joy of progression is from you beating the frick out of bosses while suffering from early onset arthritis if you play manual (playing hotkeys is fine but you miss out on the "pro gamer" fantasy) and eye cancer thanks to the amount of adhd riddled effects on the screen (which you can turn down). Think Diablo, POE but side scrolling arcade instead of top down, overall very fun. Cons are that it's got a fatigue bar for each character and pvp is basically dead cause the game runs on p2p connection, very bad in NA but no issues in Korea or China.
>the only "P2W" mmo-rpg you'll never win just by swiping,
you mean like black desert online?
Par for the course for any Korean MMOs, I couldn't stomach BDO personally, it all boils down to "skill issue", even for the whales
Yeah pretty much. I still play every now and then to do node wars and return when the 3v3 arena is in season, but beyond that I just refuse to grind in games anymore lol. It's weird to see how many people still grind bdo 10 hours a day
I liked DFO during some of its earlier level caps but the autismal grind and p2w eventually made me drop it, along with some of the other changes. It suffers from the same issue a lot of KMMOs have; your overall gameplay shifts from using your skills in combos to just popping nuke skill after nuke skill after nuke skill.
using manual mode for at least a couple of your skills is based though, mainly because it significantly expands your moveset by freeing up keybinds
I have the same issue and honestly I don't wanna search for "the" MMO anymore, I just wanna be freed from these nostalgia-induced thoughts of experiencing new games and having fun with new and old friends.
I can't go back and I want to stop deluding myself I can.
All my old contacts are either lost or went sour or they grind too much for me to catch up.
I don't even have time for grinding MMOs anyway, I'd rather be fulfilled in real life.
I'm stuck in a cycle of
>install game
>spend 5 minutes up to a few hours in it
>never come back
I want to stop, I want to despise this shit and hate it and never come back.
Why'd you delete that, cutie newfriend tbh senpai?
my sleep deprived ass was in the middle of "despite etc" but decided not to and didnt delete all of em, thats why
Anarchy Online. Been playing it since the Beta on and off and nothing comes close to it.
The answer is - Follaut 2 online!
Get client from the link and be prepared for the world most dangerous video game ever produced!!!
https://fonline2.com/en/download-fonline-2/
holy mother of shills
russian psychopathy playground, ignore at all cost
picked up!
>trying to find a MMO
Literally the most tiresome fricking thread posted on any of Gankers boards. You already know the answer; they ALL. SUCK. Now FRICK OFF already.
been playing Warhammer ror, it's basically wow I guess but more focused on pvp. I enjoy it mainly because of the *aesthetics* (dark elves make me act up)
Since this thread exists, I'll also ask for recommendations.
I personally am a fan of "grindy" games like Runescape and Albion Online due to them giving the option of just putting them in a small window in a corner of the PC while you do other stuff on the background, but don't know which of the two to commit to:
>What i like about OSRS
-Technically more sandbox than Albion
-You don't have to do something, say a quest, if you don't feel up to it
-Can just stand in a place for hours on end to farm for something without ever needing to move from it, like mining
>What I don't like about OSRS
-I CANNOT STOMACH THE QUESTS, they are far too long and require too much time to be accomplished, and I don't like being forced to look up on the wiki for each step of the way
-Going from point A to point B is far too slow because of how quickly the stamina runs out which is also one of the main reasons as to why i dislike quests so much
unironically i may considering vmscape more than actual osrs since it's free, has endless stamina, and the exp rate is higher than normal, only downside may be the player cap
>What I like about Albion
-Tutorial doesn't hold your hand for too long
-Just like OSRS, can farm endless in one place of the map
-Pretty straight forward mechanics
Guess that's all so far
there isn't, anon. This type of game isn't successful enough, all mmos today are made copying that horrid wow themepark style + mobile mechanics, that's it.
It's literally over
the irony of saying this when runescape has a grind that puts asiatic mmos to shame while also being an idle game
The real irony of OSRS is that despite it being MMO in nature (shared persistant servers) its designed like a single player game
Has anyone mentioned the Dragon ball Online MMO? worth a look, fun progression and comfy, not many players obv but its a global server
I'll play dragon ball online with you what's your name on there
Anyone doing mortal online 2? :3 Would be fun to find anons to die with.
Any mmos that still have a decent role playing community? I returned to WoW after a decade and discovered that the rp was largely dead.
The Lord of the Rings Online on Landroval/Laurelin
TOR always has role playing guilds posting recruitment ads, but I don't know if they actually actively role play
Ashes of Creation is starting to look comfy as frick
i think i understand the skepticism now. tried a bunch of mmos, they're just boring or feels clunky/outdated... i don't know how you people do it.
Personally i like the slow burn that mmos provide, but yes it can be boring at times. What mmos did you try?
Same, it's to the point that I just laugh whenever I see an announcement of a new MMO. You just know it's not going to deliver on any promises they make in the trailer, and will look many orders of magnitude shittier in real gameplay. Feels like the genre is a grift at this point.
MMORPGs have been sorta...destroyed? By modern gaming behaviors. The first part is what people have discussed a lot already. Changes in social behaviors and availability of information as the internet (and its corresponding technologies such as social media/discords) progressed. It took away a portion of the "flame" that made MMORPGs feel unique. The other aspect is that as gaming as developed, new genres have spawned that siphoned off players from the MMORPG genre.
See, playing a MMORPG like a modern game is kind of pointless. It feels like shit, as I'm sure you've already seen. MMORPGs are first and foremost significantly more enjoyable when you get really involved into the social scene. Talk with players in map chat, establish a reputation, join a guild, etc. Playing it solo, as many have done, often feels horrible. And there's few games that provide a good experience that makes it feel worth it. The other part is availability of information. Its easy to look up immediate guides on content and builds. But discovering those for yourself was a huge boon for the genre early on before wikis became too widespread (they existed, but they weren't nearly as insane as they are now). That's why people have an absolute blast when a MMORPG first releases. Everything is new and amazing feeling. There's no 10 page wiki on the exact build to use to steamroll content. Or telling you how to skip 50% of a dungeon by jumping off a certain ledge to another ledge. Or some shitty strategy. Now these modern things aren't new. They existed during the golden years too, they weren't as widespread. Like take WoW's climb to fame. People LIVED in that game. They would hop on just to be in the world and talk to others. They farmed materials, they ran dungeons for the heck of it, they world pvp/did bgs, etc. Taking awhile to find a tank for a dungeon? You go farmed materials or mobs or did world pvp. You hung out in Org/SW and just talked randomly. 1/2
2/2
Now? Yeah you don't really do that. You have a LFG and if a LFG doesn't exist, you have a third party addon/website that does it. You don't "hang out" in the world anymore. You either find a group immediately or you log off and go do something else. You have discords to keep in contact with all your guild mates, instead of relying mroe upon in game chat systems. Vent/TS/xfire/steam existed. But people still preferred to go in game and chat rather than use them (especially early on when they only had voice). Nevermind the influence of things like twitch.
Those things really helped you overcome the combat flaws/issues that often came with MMORPGs. Cause the Social aspect was like nothing else. There was also the concept of novelty. For a lot of people, they played a MMORPG for the first time in the 2000s. It was a very novel experience for them. On top of that, multiplayer overall was novel for them. I mean shit, when WoW came out, consoles had only gotten multiplayer functionality 2-3 years prior. Multiplayer overall was still a novel experience for A LOT of gamers. Even though games like UO/EQ existed for awhile.
Finally other genres. Once games like MOBAs and BR started taking off, they siphoned out a lot of the PvP playerbase as they were better PvP experiences. And the MMORPG genre never really recovered or adapated (Gw2 is probably the closest we've come). That was a significant portion of the playerbase that is gone.
For me, MMOs were about exploring a fun and interesting world while meeting strangers and chatting or doing stuff together. Now, the former has been mostly killed in modern MMOs by bland art direction, a general lack of creativity and fear of taking risks in making the world actually dangerous rather than a toothless themepark to get you from flowcharted instanced raid to flowcharted instanced raid. In older MMOs you DO have well designed worlds but the ones I've played lack the playerbase to support them they're a solved game primarily inhabited by meta-obsessed jaded veterans. As for meeting people, nobody really does this in MMOs anymore because as you said, like 95% of the socializing had shifted off-platform to spyware like Discord instead. Then you have games like FF14 that make it even harder by often grouping you cross-world with people you'll never organically run into again. You CAN meet people in these games still, but it's far rarer and less organic that it used to be.
There's only 3 MMOs I still mess with from time to time, 2 of which aren't REALLY MMOs
>FFXI
I just play it to hang around in the world and see story stuff I haven't seen already. Incredibly comfy game but retail is abandoned by SE who for some reason refuses to hire GMs to police botters and RMTers. There's bots running around from 5 years ago that are still not banned. Private servers on the other hand are their own conundrum, with dramatic drama queen teams/communities and a codebase that still sounds to be quite inaccurate and unfinished.
2/2
>PSOBB
On Ephinea. This is just a Discord game at this point, so as I don't use Discord I usually end up playing solo unless I stumble across a random open game, which is rare as this game doesn't allow joining other players mid-quest, and most people password lock their games either to play with friends/discorders or solo anyway. Another game I like for the world and the atmosphere, as a general Phantasy Star enjoyer.
>PSU
On Clementine. Less refined a game than PSO, but the private server itself is quite cozy. Yes, it's still a PSO-like, so gameplay does boil down to running the same missions over and over ad nauseum, but you can join people mid-mission in this game and in general people are way more social and friendly than your average PSO players.
I'd still like to see MH Frontier get a proper private server some day, or even basegame PSO2 with gacha removed and with custom quests. In general I'm quite disillusioned with MMOs both corporate and private-server based, it's just such a mess at the moment. I just go play singleplayer RPGs instead.
PSOBB is def one of my favorite online games, I sometimes hop on ephinea to run a mission or two and soak in the pure soul whenever I get fed up with the obnoxiousness of modern live service games and the constant FOMO baiting
Both correct. The main value proposition of the MMORPG, the reason the genre exists at all, is first and foremost that social experience, and the social systems of the genre haven't aged well at all. They all come from a pre-social media internet. People today know very well what it's like to interact with strangers from the internet at large from websites like twitter, and they know its usually a shit experience. They just want to play either alone, or with their close knit friend group. Meaning there's nothing unique about the social experience of an MMO today vs playing co-op pve games like Monster Hunter, Baldur's Gate, Fromsoft games together with your friends, or for pvp, playing competitive games like shooters or mobas right now. These smaller, more focused experiences have been able to adapt to the post social media landscape better and MMOs don't really do anything unique other than provide a persistent world for people to live a second life, RP or not.
Its not so much that the social systems haven't aged well, its that they were systematically deleted with, well, systems.
>Quest needs you to kill this uber deadly dragon deep in the depths of some awful dungeon full of death touching buttholes that would take a small army to kill, but you're rewarded with an epic sword
vs
>Quest needs you to collect 100 McGuffins, but you only get 5 a week from, once per dungeon run, and only if you use the automated queue system to zone into the hallway boss rush with 4 other social morons where only one guy actually needs to do anything(the tank), everyone else is just there to collect their mcguffin
And people do want social gameplay, they still play shit like Rust, Star Citizen still gets massive hype for a good reason even if its blatantly a scam, and shit like minecraft servers pretty much took an entire generation away from MMOs, while actual MMO vets left the genre to go back to playing D&D.
The modern MMO is too obsessed with systems design and not on having players simply share a world together with minor levels of friction that makes you not want to be a sologay all the time and actually want to group with others, unlike modern MMOs where you're either hyper comboing entire zones to death solo, or being forced to group because without a tank the mobs will 1 shot you
>co-op pve games like Monster Hunter, Baldur's Gate, Fromsoft games together with your friends, or for pvp, playing competitive games like shooters or mobas right now.
The problem is that those games suck too, especially the latter half which are flooded with intentionally manipulative mechanics used to turn you into a slop enjoyer. There is no escape.
>those games suck too
Maybe you just don't like video games or are some kind of fifa gay
MMOs like WoW, GW2, and FF14 are the only current high production value fantasy RPGs that appeal to me. Don't care about drab stuff like the Witcher 3 that came out a decade ago, or moviegames like nu God of War, or far cry/ubisoft stuff. And low production value indie games don't appeal to me. Most JRPG devs went extinct during the transition to 3D HD so now we're lucky if we even get one JRPG a year like Trails or Monochrome Mobius.
A huge advantage that these three MMOs have (mainly WoW and GW2 but also FFXIV to a lesser extent) is the character customization. You have a decade+ of armors to mix and match, as well dozens of different classes to choose from. Most other games can't boast the same.
I don't play these three MMOs year round. I play them seasonally, for a couple months when a new expansion or major content patch comes out and then I am playing a different game.
What are your thoughts on ESO? Seems like it would fit what you're looking for. The customization/RPG/cosmetic scene in that game is quite a lot.
I've tried almost every single MMORPG in existence (including old school stuff like Everquest P99) and have come to the inevitable conclusion that it is a genre designed not to be a good social experience, but to make the players addicted and waste their time as much as possible through artificial padding. Co-op RPGs are just a better experience.
I've played nearly 1.2k hours of ESO and it's a bad MMO. Not bad as in it's a bad TES game (which it also is), it's a bad MMO. There are so many features that are common in other MMOs that are just plain missing in ESO. They added a proper group finder YESTERDAY after nearly 10 fricking years and no one uses it. The cash shop is horrendous and needs nothing more than that unless you want a lengthy rant by an autist. The combat is terrible and so is the PvP. PvP being bad is mostly bias on my part, because I don't like MMO PvP anyway. There's so much content, but nothing to do and the DLCs are even worth it because you finish it in maybe a week or less or a month if you're a casual player. It's nearly in maintenance mode, since they're probably going to start moving devs to their next MMO. Stay away, it's a complete waste.
That being said, I also would like another MMO to play that isn't FFXIV or any of the others OP listed. I might check out that Project: Gorgon to see how it is, but I would like something else I'm about done with ESO.
Yeah I love ESO as a singleplayer MMORPG. I absolutely hate that such a term exists, but here we are. I find the combat in the "endgame" areas where you actually have to care about your build...it just feels bland and shitty. But with things like the TES lore, first person view, crime, voiced quests with pseudo choices, companions, housing, etc. On top of not having a new TES game in like what, 12 or 13 years so far? Its the best we've got for that universe. So I choose some shitty build that I made based purely around the fun factor, play mainly in first person, and focus on open world content and questing. Every time I've tried to do anything beyond that game (Trials, Cyrodiil, BGs, etc), it feels so so bad. I end up just wanting to play another MMORPG that does it better. But for the RPG experience? ESO is S tier as far as MMORPGs go.
Yeah to me its not only design, but players. Classic WoW I think is/was a great experiment to show "older" style designs and how players interact with them in the modern era. Mainly the Vanilla version of the game. The amount of stupidity, self destructive, temper-tantrum throwing behavior I saw from the players during classic vanilla was insane. I basically realized that even if a newer mmorpg took risks and did what we want, players would hate it because the ones who are majority in this genre are idiots who ruin the game for themselves.
The one thing I love doing in ESO is dungeons, even though I suck soloing most of them, they can be okay in groups, but you get some fricking moronic, toxic people sometimes and it's pretty funny sometimes. Still, this game was never and never will be good. Had they done some kind of remaster or 2.0 version some years back to fix the combat and add more mechanics, it would have been fine, but it's too late now. Next year is the anniversary and even though they have some big adventure planned, as if they're making it some possible big finale, but it will be nothing more than a whimper from the background of games like WoW and FFXIV, hell even BDO.
Yeah the combat situation is so hard to fix cause once you get down to it, everyone has a different idea of what would be the perfect combat. No matter what the discussion eventually moves towards a "The combat should be like this game". And I've heard a sizable portion of people say that the combat should be like WoW, FF14, gw2, etc. There's not really a consistent idea of what would be good combat in the first place.
I do feel kind of bad for them because they know its an issue, but there's no fix. So they introduce these artifact items that reduce or solve one of the issues. Oh you don't like constant hot bar switching? here's a one bar build. Or you don't like attack weaving? Here's a skill spam build. That's about the best they can do for now.
Like personally if I absolutely had to choose, maybe something like New World would be more entertaining. But I'd still kind of miss the first person experience. I've got a hot take/unpopular thought on this and that is that I think a game like Fallout 76 but in the TES universe (and designed from the get-go to be what Fo76 is now) would absolutely kill. Same combat with slight changes here and there. Team dungeons to play in. Similar questing, and progression system to the TES games. Ability to "homestead" and build your own homes, recruit companions, etc. A map that is 4x the size of Skyrim. With smaller maps released 1-2 times a year. Tons of open world events to play. To me that would've been far more entertaining than ESO from a multiplayer standpoint. Probably the only way a multiplayer elder scrolls game would've lived up to its expectations for me.
I think the problem always comes down to that people are always talking about action combat vs tab targeting/traditional, but they never bring out the actual problem with modern MMOs, engaging combat.
In both action and tab target they both have devolved into mashing hypercombos, and 'roles' have become so streamlined (the trinity) that there is no room for engaging gameplay, because if everyone is balanced around being part of a trinity rather than having a niche then the only way to balance that system is to make every class more or less the same, the only difference is which arrangement of buttons you push to do your hypercombo over another
Like the current trinity tank is a cancer to game design, and no matter if you make your hypercombo gameplay hotbar based DDR rotations or M1 M2 mashing action combat, the fact that all mechanics revolve around a mob auto attacking a guy who is designated to generate infinite threat and take 0 damage from anything but a tank buster is boring fricking game design and leads to the problem that the only way to make an engaging encounter is to just make a boss that 1 shots people if they don't move out of bad fast enough, which then leads to the addon arms race between players and devs
another issue is character building for niches, because of trinity design, you heavily limit characters players can play in the first place. A PVP build in the past was about being bursty and good enough to kill before getting killed, now its just equipping PVP gear so you get PVP stats that scale your PVP damage and resistance
Similarly min-maxing around different kinds of efficiencies, such as increasing the number of mobs you can pull at a time before going OOM or dying from incoming damage, these are just straight up baked into your kit without a single thought put into them, such as the trinity tank no longer having to balance between threat(and damage) and mitigation, and using different setups for different encounters, its all just baked into their kit, and their gear is nothing but stat sticks with maybe 2-3 items actually doing something interesting, though those might be passive as well.
Yeah I agree. I'd like to see something more interesting than the traditional trinity. But at that same time...there's a lot of people who like it. Its one of the common complaints I see about Gw2. There's no tanking and no healing. That game has a whole other bundle of problems from them trying to do no trinity. But yeah I've met quite a few people who don't like playing it because they like being a healer or they like being a tank.
Like you said, what it comes down to is engaging. Trinity, tab target, action combat, etc. None of that matters as long as it is fun and engaging. its just a question of what do most people find fun/engaging? You have to rely heavily on data analytics and other games to make a good guess. I mean WoW and FF14 are the biggest MMORPGs by far right now. So does that mean a majority of people prefer that kind of combat? But then you have SWTOR which is almost identical in combat, yet not nearly as popular. For me I have found that New World is probably the most engaging combat I've played. Its not perfect and I could use more "umpf" and feedback from my attacks (they had to tone it down for the sake of group content design). But out of all the typical contendors in the genre right now (WoW, FF14, ESO, Gw2, SWTOR, etc), I've found nw to have the most engaging.
The problem with GW2 was that the trinity still existed, just every class could do any role.
A better example of the anti-trinity is adding in the classic roles of support, crowd control, puller, off tank (not just a second main tank) ect.
For example, the frost mage in vanilla WOW is a powerful crowd control class that can trivialize AOE pulls with their slows and snares, in retail WOW they're just another generic damage dealer, when considering playing or bringing a frost mage in vanilla WOW, you ask "Do we need AOE and slows" while in retail WOW you ask "Is frost mage good this patch?" because one is unique in role, the other is generic
Also damage shouldn't really be a role, and tanking should only be single target, every encounter is based around doing damage, you need to make everyone engaged in the encounter, and the only way modern MMOs do that is by taking the engagement away from the player's kit and put it on the boss's mechanics, usually in the form of instant death mechanics or extra action bars in WOW or button mashing events in FFXIV
On the Gw2 side of things, yes and no? There really isn't a tank class. There's different levels of survivability that you can put into your chosen build depending on what you go for. But there isn't a traditional tank role or anywhere close to it (someone who holds agro and manages it). In the same vein there isn't much in the way of traditional support. Now roles did end up forming out of the game and a pseudo trinity was made by the community itself. Essentially revolving around DPS (AoE vs Single target) and Boon Support (alacrity, might, quickness mainly). While each class could do all the roles (in the sense that each class was in charge of its own sustain and damage), it still had some level of group play and roles were born out of that.
Now it feels absolutely like shit because you have a psuedo role system in a combat design that was never designed with that in mind. But its too far in to fix that.
While I do agree with your statement about classic roles, it does present its own issues. Ones that were experienced in the games that did that back in the day. And would be magnified by today's braindead audiences. First, people will quickly figure out the "best" roles for encounters and prefer those only. For example, perhaps a puller isn't that useful because a crowd control roll can easily outshine it + do more damage. So a bunch of groups start gatekeeping and wont accept them. Players will find the most optimal comps that complete the content the quickest, then strongarm the community into following that. If they do something like this, they're gonna have to take the route of retail wow where you have a selection of build types that can be easily switched between so everyone has the best chance of being able to play. Even then that problem may still exist (still exists in retail WoW, "Is frost mage good now?").
I think its possible to pull it off. Just gotta have choices. But people will still strong arm into a trinity
If you cater to a braindead audience with a braindead game then you won't really attract people who are interested in playing a game longterm.
You really need a special kind of moron who will grind for the sake of grinding, and there are already better games out there for that, like OSRS
>Yeah to me its not only design, but players.
I think the same factors behind why the internet sucks now are why MMOs also suck socially. MMOs back during those days would attract a wide variety of people with a lot to share and say, and everybody was excited by the idea of hanging out with people from all over the world. Now it's social-media-brained, dopamine-receptor-fried ADD modern gamers and normies.
throne and liberty combat reveal in 30 minutes if anybody cares kek
just watched it, seems pretty ok. still unsure about how the whole thing will play out but I'm excited for something new regardless, even if it's only fun for the first 2 months
Has OP found a good MMO yet? I'm trying to move on from FFXIV.
Think they are playing the following
>having downlaoded warframe, destiny 2, LOTRO, GW2(again), im now going to try EQ2, and RoR.
I find it hard to really say what a good MMORPG because it honestly comes down to what you really want out of one. Most MMORPGs do 1-3 things really well, and the rest very poorly. So if those 1-3 things fit your bill, then its probably a good MMORPG for you.
5K hours in Warframe - quit, unironically did everything worthwhile
3k hours in WoW Retail - quit and will likely never return
2k hours in XIV - quit after ShB expac launch but might come back for DT
1k hours in PoE - quit MMOs to focus on this game, but I've recently quit it as well lol
I've already tried most MMOs on the market and here is what I've considered playing at the moment:
>FFXIV (again)
I haven't played the current expac at all so there is something for me to go back to, and I'd be starting a new character so it would hold my attention for a long ass time
>Classic WoW
Never played on the pre-Cata map before, so it's all new to me. Skipped out when Classic first launched because it seemed like a zerg rush of people swarming streamers and shit. Only shame is I hear that goldselling and botters have not gotten better. Hoping that they annouce something good at Blizzcon.
>New World
Game looks stale as shit but my irl friends play and have been nagging me to join them. Really doesn't seem like my cup of tea though
>Maplestory Reboot
New server launches soon, comfy grinder but not something I'd play forever.
I have no expectations that the genre will improve because now it's gotten to the point where the industry can't even launch a new MMO, or at the very least, it launches with tons of problems.
Try Blade and Soul, it is on soft life support and NCSoft are greedy asiatics but you really don't need to engage with its whale treadmills to have a good time with most of the content available. It is still one of the more unique attempts at mmos to date.
NTA, but can you switch to the old graphics? I really do not like how the updated visuals look
>quit, unironically did everything worthwhile
This is the ultimate issue. The perfect MMO for (you) exists, but it's likely run its course. I have 5,000 hours in Star Trek Online, but you couldn't pay me to play it again.
>Classic WoW
As a player who recently quit I highly recommend you don't even bother. The current end game is completely different to what it was from vanilla and even classic-2019. Your main access into raids is something called GDKPs where you literally pug raids and bid on loot with gold. Aside from being absolutely soulless enter goldbuying and you have absolutely mazed players swiping their credit cards and pretty much buying gear with real money. The going rate last time I checked was something like $1USD = 180g and you had players casually throwing out 20k-100k gold bids on items so just just think before you decide on committing.
How is Neverwinter? I played a very tiny bit a long time ago, but kinda just forgot about it.
it was good a long time ago but then they completely fricked up the game with one of their combat reworks
supposedly the game is decent these days
I think I'm gonna play it. Dunno if it's good in the long-run, but I need a new MMO to waste time on.
Any Age of Conan anons?
>trying to find a MMO for me after 7 months DOTA free
Play Lost Ark.
The fact that you unironically recommended Lost Ark means you're probably a moronic whale.
OP is a bit of a gay, but no reason the ruin his life like that.
The industry is really dying for a few new competing MMOs to release in the same year, not this korean p2w garbage they keep pumping out. New World looks like an ugly unity asset flip game or some shit and it's just now beginning to bring itself up to par. ESO/GW2 feel outdated as shit and BDO is arguably the least MMO out of all popular MMOs today with how solo based it is. Tab target slop is just that. T&L seems like it has potential based off of their sensibilities but they are korean devs, even if their game is fundamentally good they WILL frick it up and lie through their teeth about everything.
Then there was crowfall, pantheon and camelot from the west lol. Even Gloria Victis shut down about a week ago. It's been nothing but a decade pure of mediocrity
TL looks like shit tbh, you also have to remember that asian games are all about presentation which adds an extra layer of shallow extravagance to the already over-inflated and undelivered promises that MMOs try to grift and sell you on.
Can't be any worse than the past decade of MMO releases which have all been total shit. Seems like they at the very least are clear with their vision of the game environment. It'll either be something worth playing for at least a month or another elyon lol, the whole genre is just whatever at this point. I'll never give korean mmo devs money ever again that's for sure
FFXIV cope thread
>french perfect mmos
>no one cares because it's french
rmyt
It's a dead, buggy, p2w, abandonned game anon.
Well Archage 2 is confirmed to be PvE-centrc and are removing large scale PvP. PvE once again overtaking this genre for the worse.
You mean more developers are not designing their MMORPG to appeal to a playerbase that has proven themselves to be more toxic, more self consuming, more temperamental, and least likely to spend money?
Color me surprised i say. Surprised!
archage 2 will close it's server in the first year after release, mark my words
they better milk those naive whales quick lmao
nah i think it'll be fine and you seethe playing shit like albion or rust lol
actually I play vscape(for the bible study) and EQ
also toram and progress knight multiplayer on my phone
cope chud
>chud
but i'm not a pvp player
i'm still having fun in RO
believe it or not i'm from north america, not brazil
No mention of Spiral Knights guys?
https://steamcharts.com/app/99900
There's your mention
Any other game quite like it? I couldn’t find anything as charming as it.
The average hardcore sandbox mmorpg pvper
>refuses to buy into monetization outside of box price/maybe a cheap sub
>Likes to stream snipe
>Likes to force new players quit by camping them
>"for the lulz"
>Gets salty easily and spams chat/forums with rage
>Blames devs for own bad skill
>"700 hours playtime, do not recommend. Don't buy it!"
>"If the game is not perfect at release, it deserves to die"
>"If the game slightly inconveniences me, it deserves to die"
>Wonders why most publishers don't invest into developing sandbox mmorpg pvps "like the old days"
I've played pretty much every MMO released in the West. It happened in UO, it happened in Asheron's Call, it happened in DAoC, it happened in SWG, it happened in EVE, it happened in Planetside, it happened in WoW, it happened in Darkfall, it happened again in the relaunch of Darkfall, it happened in another version of Darkfall and Mortal Online 1, it happened in Guild Wars 1&2, it happened in ArcheAge more times than I can count and it happened in BDO and it happened in New World and Mortal Online 2 and Albion.
Catering to PvP spergs is a death sentence for any MMO. At best it should be a completely optional, low penalty mode that solely exists to give endgamers more to do. I would much rather have PvE-focused sandbox MMOs.
>>Gets salty easily and spams chat/forums with rage
devs for own bad skill
>>"700 hours playtime, do not recommend. Don't buy it!"
>>"If the game is not perfect at release, it deserves to die"
>>"If the game slightly inconveniences me, it deserves to die"
None of that is specific to pvp players or even mmo players.
Steam forum is full of the last two in particular even on singleplayer indie games.
In any case it wouldn't matter even if they were all polite angels, themepark mmos especially wowclones just sell more. The majority of players don't want to be challenged even in pve only.
>Eve
exploded in population after adding facwar and wormholes in late 2000s, focusing on pvp and economy was good. Pve in a real sandbox like Eve self-nerfs itself as the more people do a particular activity the less valuable the rewards from it is.
>Planetside
moron
>Wow
what
>Guild Wars
again what, they completely forgot about spvp in gw2 and have delayed a WvW update for literal years now.
>Albion
doing great, much better than 95% of wowclones ever did
>PvE-focused sandbox mmo
There is Tale in the Desert but it has not combat. There is some issues with the design of these. The aforementioned self-nerfing. mmo combat is not as good as sp or co-op game combat because of the server overhead thing. If you are going to make a pvesandbox why even make it an mmo? If you are going to make a pve mmo why make it a sandbox when the average player prefers what themeparks offer.
Gw2 is not even a sandbox but has some elements of one enough to where people call it a sandpark but all these aspects are ones players cite as reason why the game doesn't appeal to them as much as wow.
Tale in the Desert is community focused but the genre is full of people who want to play solo but just in a world with other people running around.
>doing great, much better than 95% of wowclones ever did
Albion constantly got shitted on because it become more and more whale-focused with every update
>Wonders why publishers don't invest in developing sandbox PVP mmos
More so why publishers don't invest in anything that isn't a dogshit WOW clone, and every single WOW clone to date has failed utterly.
>B-but FF14
FF14 is barely even an MMO gameplay wise, the only thing it has is WOW style instances and those are the worst part about the game, its just weeb secondlife at this point.
But if you look at your typical WOW clone, they all have sub 20k player bases if they're lucky, otherwise they straight up shut down like Wildstar.
And the ironic thing is, WOW in its prime was a PVP sandbox as the most popular servers were all PVP servers until late WOTLK and cataclysm when wPVP was effectively deleted thanks to dungeon finder and old world flying.
We're already seeing MMO as a genre stagnating and dying because of the WOWclone hugbox and koreashit destroying the genre, everyone who wants the hugbox shit doesn't want an MMO, so they moved onto gacha which simulates the grind and dopamine drops, while sandbox players relegated themselves to OSRS wildy or EVE Online, or various private servers of oldschool MMOs, or the plethora of psudo-MMO sandbox games like minecraft, rust, ark, tarkov, ect. But no one wants to play SWTOR, New Word, Wildstar, GW2, ESO, ect.
Also
>publishers
Publishers are always fricking moronic why is this even an argument in the first place, or do I need to bring up what EA did to bullfrog, westwood and Bioware, or ABK did to Blizzard?
stream sniping happens in pretty much any mmo that isn't purely instanced content
One of the many reasons why streamer feedback shouldn't be taken at all by MMO devs, catering to their niche heavily limits gameplay design.
i'm installing LOTRO now after reading this thread. then I will play the fresh vanilla Warmane server dropping on the 18th, even though WoW is pretty boring after playing it for a decade. Then I will play Eden DAOC on Dec. 2nd.
>install LOTRO
>make character
>get in game
>camera controls like ass
>keep moving even though I've let go of 'w' key
I'm sorry, but I'm good. As much as I love LOTR, I don't think I can play this.
Yeah it was fun for me either. Still waiting on my warmane server.
Maybe you can help me out as well?
I guess what im looking for is something close to a sandbox since i dont want it to be either PVP focused nor running the same 5 dungeons over and over and nothing else. The number one thing that puts me off in many MMOs i tried was overcomplicated mechanics for progression, that go on top of your usual grind so stuff like BDO or whatnot are totally off the table. Something chill that has a bit of everything, i dont dislike older games but OSRS is not preferable due to being very old even for my tastes and that it paywalls content (if i gonna spend money on one it better be the one i stick around too right?)
GW2
Freeshard server. yes free.
New season starts 2nd december you can play now but all progress will be lost and there is a instant level 50 at moment test things out before new season.
https://eden-daoc.net/home
worth a look Dark age camlot
tbh koreashit could actually take over the genre completely if their games weren't monetized in such a comically evil fashion
Koreans come up with some decent ideas. I honestly like BDO mostly because of its combat, it's not the best, but it's fun and flashy. I do agree, if they didn't make their games P2W trashheaps dependent on cash shops they would probably be better.
Its true, but koreans are absolutely fricking moronic.
Look at the early success of Ragnarok's pirate servers compared to the official ones that sucked ass due to the pay 2 win dogshit infesting it, but sadly they still think abusing whales is better than having millions of subs.
korean game with western dev vision. amazon should have done this instead of making new world and picking up lost ark/throne liberty.
Something I notice with modern day devs is their are so desperate to pander to feminists and make women ugly that they end up alienating the kind of women who play mmorpgs.
The games with the most women are wow, ff14 and Korean games. Cause they have attractive sexy women, women inherently like having appealing characters men find appealing.
Its ironic, though most of the people complaining about the lack of representation in games never touched a real woman
anyone got an invite for the pax dei alpha?
Why MMORPGs have "failed" or is a dying genre.
>Social novelty
Wore off. Multiplayer on such a huge scale isn't that special anymore
>Downtime/Prep time
Downtime in MMORPGs often led to more social interaction. Things like grinding mobs, crafting, material farming, etc. People hate these things now. Needs to be a constant flow of dopamine addicted content
>Choices
There are way too many choices in general for mmorpgs now a days that are easily obtainable/quick to download and play.You've got all the big names (FF14, WoW, Gw2, ESO, runescape, etc), then all the smaller ones (SWTOR, DDO, LOTR, etc). Splits up an audience that is already struggling
>Other Genres
There's a lot of other genres that offer similar "feelings" to a mmorpg from a gameplay to gameplay perspective, but on a much smaller scale in terms of grind/progression. MOBA, BR, survival siphoning away mmorpg pvpers. Coop games, Arpgs, and singleplayer games siphoning away PvErs. People are struggling to see the point in a mmorpg.
That's the simple truth of the matter. Now a days a modern successful mmorpg has more in common with something like Diablo 4 or Fo76 than with Vanilla WoW, UO, or EQ.
If games like AoC or riot mmo don't follow, they will die. Because the gaming community is not a huge fan of those "old school" style mmorpgs these days.
>Social novelty
Because this drives away whales, it didn't ware off, pandering to vocal whales who buy a shit ton of cosmetics but don't even play your game has destroyed any social gameplay possible, its why group sizes and the need to have a guild has been invalidated for solo live service games that call themselves MMOs because they added in WOTLK style dungeons at some point
>downtime/prep
This is one of the major issues, downtime/prep has been replaced by timegating, before you would grind materials and keys to do dungeons/raids and bosses or wait for a respawn, this lead to camps, not going to defend camps, they were dogshit design, but for example in OSRS you need to prepare for raids so you and your boys hanging out while you farm out mats on your ironmen is chill AF, same with making ISK in EVE, which is mind numbing, but way better and safer when you do it with friends on comms so you can batphone for help
>choices
The problem with choices is the lack of niches, every MMO has streamlined around the trinity, and this robs players of choices on how to deal with problems. You must have a tank, you must have a healer, and you must have DPS, because the game is functionally designed that everything that isn't a labled a tank gets oneshot, everything in a raid takes unavoidable damage so you must bring a healer, and there is an enrage timer so you need a DPS, you can't figure out different ways to mitigate damage (Kiting, avoidance, CC, ect) and there are no subroles anymore to min-max around, like AOE control, hard control, kiting, AOE tank, soak tank, ect.
>other genres
And this is the problem, no one knows what an MMO is anymore, which simply put, is a game where hundred-thousands of players share a persistant world together. Instead everyone makes ARPGs or gacha games and call them MMOs despite them completely lacking the shared world experience, I.E. vindictus, or the decade were every MMO fansite called league of legends a MMO
You bring up some good points, but I often don't think its the developers fault, fully. It ultimately is the consumers fault. Because they actively support games that do this or favor them, while not supporting/favoring games that don't. Every game that I've seen that goes against these design decisions ends up dying or barely surviving. Its not just that "whales" prefer those other games. Its that a vast majority of players do, even those that don't spend enormous amounts of money.
Just look at all those "classic" hardcore MMORPGs. Project gorgon, fractured online, embers adrift, etc. You look at those games and people say they don't want to play it because too much grind. Too much downtime. Not enough solo content. Hell, even classic wow proved this to a great degree.
So While I agree with what you're saying. I do think that the fault is mainly the consumers because they seem to prefer games that are like that. And the communities that support games that aren't like the current issue are either too small and/or too stingy with money to properly keep it alive.
I think this is also why games like Albion keep pushing monetization. I haven't kept up with that game in awhile and last I checked it was mainly just a VIP premium sub + cosmetics. But games like this its often very hard to get the community to actually spend money on it. Have 100,000s of players is great. But if only 10% of those end up spending money consistently, then the game probably wont survive.
The problem is that publishers just want WOW 2, but they don't even understand what made WOW good in the first place and keep making the same mistakes.
Its why the only chance for a next gen MMO is going to come from someone without publisher oversight. The closest we have so far is Star Citizen, but thats taking fricking forever because the dumbasses thought cryengine/lumberyard was a good idea for 5 years before finally biting the bullet and working on their own, or other kickstarter shit like Ashes of Creation, but those also have problems.
No, the next gen MMO probably won't even call itself an MMO, but stumble assbackwards into it when some grognard hardcore D&D nerds try to make a shared RPG that somehow retreads the same steps to make the first gen MMOs, just with modern tech. Very likely too since everyone went back to playing tabletop shit now that modern MMOs fricking suck, eventually someone is going to want to try and make an online version.
>The problem is that publishers just want WOW 2, but they don't even understand what made WOW good in the first place and keep making the same mistakes.
Don't get me wrong, most don't understand why vanilla -> TBC and somewhat wotlk was good. But hasn't this whole "classic" experiment they're doing proven that? Nearly so much of the audience immediately tried to force the "modern" mmorpg experience/playstyle into the initial versions of classic and it failed. It still ended up with a decent population after the first 4-5 months. But nowhere near retail WoW or FF14 for example. And those that did play it didn't really play it in the same way people did "in the old days".
>AoC
I will enjoy AoC, but its going to be a disaster. I see all these streamers hyping it up. All these people who have only played Legion WoW + or FF14 (or similar mmorpgs of this era) getting all excited for it. Loot drop PvP? Exp debt on death? Death penalties overall? The first time most of these frickers die to a pvp gank and drop some of their 'progression", they're gonna quit. The first time they get ganked during some "raid"/pve encounter, they're gonna quit. Hell, the first time they die and get "exp debt", they're gonna quit. Guarantee it. It wont be anywhere close to popularity of say ESO or even Gw2. It will probably somewhere around albion. Wouldn't be surprised if less, but not by much.
Every time I see any mmorpg try something that isn't the modern slop shit, the playerbase throws a tantrum, complains, and quits. Game dies. Even with the popularity of DnD. Maybe I'm jaded, but I don't think the next "big" mmorpg is going to be anything close to a mmorpg. Especially like the ones from the 90s/2000s. Its going to be something like Fo76. PvE focused, sharded large map, 10-50 players at once. Heavy focus on RPG/immersion. We're already seeing hints of this. Fo76's popularity. All the PvE survival focused games (Valheim, pax dei, etc).
>Fo76's popularity
lol
>Pax Dei
It's just another pvp sandbox mmo with a safezone
>PvE survival focused games Valheim
If I was working on a game like that why would I make it an mmo? It's already successful as an sp/co-op game
If you gave me 400 million dollars why would I make an mmo instead of a bunch of different smaller games that are more likely to succeed?
Why wouldn't I make something like Genshin instead? The majority of mmo players play solo and just want to feel like they are in a world with other people and the Genshin setup satisfies a huge number of them.
Why do mmos even exist anymore? There is no novelty to it, or even a purpose now.
>Fo76
You'd be surprised man. For the absolute shitshow that was its launch, it has a become quite popular. Is it the most populated game ever? Nahh, but it boasts an impressive population (and revenue). Especially around new releases. To me, the fact that such a large sized population is willing to play that game to that extent (and spend that quite of money) mean there's a gap somewhere that isn't being filled by a lot of games at the moment.
>Pax Dei
Yeah well see. I'm holding off on judgement one way or the other until more info comes out.
>PvE focused survival games
You know what one of the most common wishes I see with Valheim is? "I wish I could play this with more people". Like you said, a lot of mmorpg players want to play solo and at this point so many games that call themselves a mmorpg aren't even that. The point I was making was that I could easily see that the audience/focus that the mmorpg genre once had being more and more diverted to these medium sized to large scale immersion games. That are heavily bolstered by stories/rpg aspects. Valheim, Conan, Fo76, etc. Where you can build a city with 30 people. Or take on a giant monster with 10-20. Even those experiences offering more of a MMO feel than what most "mmorpgs" are doing now (5 man dungeons and 10 man focused raids. Small scale 5v5 pvp. Pointless crafting. Lack of socialization. Etc).
>Valheim, Conan, Fo76, etc
It's weird you don't mention Minecraft which is the most significant one.
> the audience/focus that the mmorpg genre once had being more and more diverted
Sure, same thing happened to RTS players moving to other genres that catered to the specific part of RTS they liked.
>Even those experiences offering more of a MMO feel
The number one most important aspect of mmorpgs especially early ones were the permanence/persistence of what you were doing (and what you weren't doing, it's only a world if it keeps going on without you), the part that's left out of the stupid acronym.
These games you are talking don't fill that, hell they do a worse job of it than even retail wow does. Ultimately they are just big instanced co-op like battle royales are big instanced pvp.
>Persistent World/Carrying on offline
I mean some of those are, are they not? Take MC like you said, a great example of this. You have those persistent servers with 100 people in them. You can log in, build, do your thing, log out; the world carries on. Your buildings are your permanent impact on the world. Same situation with Valheim. Their server size is what, 8 people? That world persists without you being there or not if its a permanent server. If they were to "give in" and do something where you can have significant more people in a single Valheim world (which is what sorta feels like Pax Dei and similar games are aiming for), yeah I'd say that fits the bill. Massive amount of players, all doing their own thing, in a persistent world.
I mean even Fo76 you can argue that its a persistent world. You join a server, there's I think 20-30 people max per server. Regardless if you're logged in or not, its still going on. But here's the thing. You can argue that since its not the same server, its not persistent...but how does the server structure of Fo76 differ from the sharding that most mmorpgs do? You would effectively need a single server, no sharding. And we've seen how well that has gone for games like New World.
What I'm saying is that I think the next big mmorpg is basically going to be like MC/Valheim, but with a server size much larger (100+). And its going to be tough to say they're less MMORPGs than WoW/FF14. I mean shoot, someone is already doing that. Hytale. If it ever releases.
idk what ur saying but i noticed u posted hytale
coping so hard for this to be good and come out next year
To anyone who might read this, we got a group of anons planning on playing Shin Megami Tensei Imagine New Moon on the 20th. It's a private server of an SMT MMO. There's already a thread up on this board with a lot of information if you're interested in starting another MMO with anons.
Is LOTRO's downloader busted or something?
I tried age of conan once and it was. Maybe old games are fricked.
pax dei alpha actually looks decent, will this be "the one"?
Maybe, maybe not.
At least its something different than wowclone shit
To date not a single MMO has actually been a WoW clone, atleast not in the vein of Wotlk and before. Hell, I don't even think any of them are similar to retail. They're all afraid of being too similar mechanically and simultaneously don't put the effort in the right places to even properly copy the part of the game loop that they want to retain.
Every single modern western MMO has followed the TBC/WOTLK model because that
This a blatant fricking lie and you merely has to look at typical western MMO shit to confirm
>follow the dot kill/gather lineral questing
>trinity based class design
>heavy focus on end game, forgets about rest of the game
Frick wildstar's TBC style attunement system was so fricking bad that it killed the game, because they forgot that leveling also needed to be fun.
And by the time these devs realize their mistake its way too late and they have to go F2P solo player trash to stay afloat or shut down.
>western MMO
All the Chinese, Japanese and most Korean ones are wow clones too (FF14 devs at least admit it)
Only exceptions are some shitty Korean attempts at making Ultima Online
What is your amazing Eastern mmo that breaks the mold, I want to see it.
It looks like the New World alpha, I hope they stick to the concept to prove whether or not it would have worked with actual thoughtfulness towards open PvP.
>survival crafting slop but this time with twtichheads slave armies
I literally don't see what it can offer outside of community dick measuring between eceleb armies and tryhard clans.
I don't care about the twitch shit but what you're describing is something heavily community-involved which is what MMOs have been missing for decades. If it takes e-celebs to bring back a modicum of server culture then it's worth it.
>f it takes e-celebs to bring back a modicum of server culture then it's worth it.
trust me, you don't want them in your games
Have fun competing with thousands of braindead asmon worshippers that will build him a castle in a day and scourge the server of anyone he points at.
Ok? Sandbox MMOs have always had giant guilds and lone wolves. If the game is good, it will cater to both, if its shit, it'll cater to neither because not being able to solo occasionally is fricking aids and a quick way to kill your MMO, but even lone wolves want to play in a game where they can master the game as a solo player.
If a developer can't even properly stop guild zerging of newbros, their game is as good as dead.
Having a community is great, but what typically concerns me is that the devs listen to what the e-celebs tell them would make the game good, and at that point you might as well take a blowtorch to the entire game because none of those dipshits know what makes a good game
in conclusion
there are no good MMOs worth your time
standalone mordhau mmorpg mod, we'd never need another game developed
man 1999 playing Everquest for a few years was so awesome. It really ruined most MMOs for me. Nothing seems to get that difficult and immersive. Someday I hope something comes along that can scratch that itch again.
There are zero good MMOs out there any more.
this is the natural conclusion of every mmo player, anyone who thinks otherwise simply hasn't gotten there yet.
the problem with good mmos is that i have already been fomo'd way or another for not being there from the start
>Good
>FOMO
Thats the antithesis of a good MMO, a good MMO starts at level 1, and a newbro is useful even to an established group.
The reality is all the dogshit MMOs focus entirely on end game where people run out of shit to do and the developers can never develop content fast enough to keep up with demand if players even get to that point in the first place and not quit 20-40 hours into the dogshit poorly made mandatory leveling grind.
>reality is all the dogshit MMOs focus entirely on end game
This is more of the fault of the community than the developers. Games have come and gone that tried to make it not "endgame" focused and people still hated it. They either hated it because of "lack of goals" or because they didn't progress fast enough. I mean take classic vanilla. The ultimate test of the mmorpg community in recent years. The way people behaved in it basically showed why the genre moved the way it did. Vanilla is probably the "closest" WoW had been to the journey mattering. You had items from quests/dungeons/drops that mattered for a good chunk of levels. And leveling was slow, meaning those items would last you even longer. What was the common complaint in vanilla early on? Leveling took too long. So the community found bullshit like farming SM none stop for hours to poopsock to 60 in a week. If modern mmorpgs don't play ball with what these people want, they mass quit or find some way to do it themselves. That's why these mmorpgs that focus "on the journey" and not on endgame end up struggling. I mean hell, even games like Gw2 see it. Game released practically had no endgame grind. Whole world was pretty much your endgame zone. What happened? "I miss the gear treadmill", "There's no point in doing content cause I don't get a gear upgrade".
Players want to a constant flow of dopamine rush of gear upgrades. If its too slow or doesn't exist, game dies and they go somewhere else.
Its both, developers insisting on there being this rigid leveling system to get to where they spend 90% of their development is moronic.
Then you have the fact that people go full themepark or full sandbox, when the best MMOs had both. You need some sandbox elements to your game, such as a player driven economy and PVP, to keep players engaged while you're adding in new content.
For example adding in a new dungeon/raid with new items and gear is utterly fricking pointless if the gear you get is worthless outside of said dungeon or raid, which is what you see with most WOW style MMOs, and worse become obsolete in a single patch. When I get the uber sword from the uber dragon boss, I want to take it and either grind gold more conveniently because im killing stuff faster so I can buy cooler stuff like special mounts or rare cosmetics, or I want to take said sword into PVP and dunk on the noobs with my guild oneshotting dickass rogues
>full sandbox vs full themepark
Ironically this is why vanilla Terraria mogs Vanilla minecraft despite having the same gameplay loops. Yeah minecraft is a technically more impressive sandbox, but terraria is just a better game because it offers bosses to fight and a progression system that is fun and not just mining diamonds while starving to death because you didn't bake enough bread, and of course both games are infinitely repayable unlike a pure themepark games which rely entirely on speedrunner autism for replay value.
No wonder why WOW clones which focus exclusively on end game dungeon repetition utterly fail to maintain a playerbase longer than 2-3 months.
I wish devs spent 90% of their development on endgame but really the majority of content goes to the leveling experience then you get maybe 20% of the content and it takes years for the endgame to become viable or fun.
The only game where endgame was the majority of the day one purchase was Guild Wars 1 and that's because it only had a level 20 cap. It helped that they never raised that cap.
RIP Age of Wushu 2 fricking Snail
The devs do spend most of their time hyperbalancing an end game
The rest of the game is an afterthought of reused assets
I'm to old to enjoy mmos so I decided to approach the real life with grinding mindset
at it pays off
>let's see how mmos are doing
>eve, dead t. fozziesov, as if it wasnt dead before
>most private servers are faking player counts or die in a week
>they still refuse to fix trivial problems which plague the game, like ninja looting
>discord is still injecting troony politics into videogames causing sole reason to exist wokepunish private servers like turtlewow
can't really blame retail wow for going troonie because it was already trying everything to beg for more money
>entirely bland mmo gameplay loop where developer begs for money each month and requires you to pay more money every year for another addon which contains the exact same bland mmo gameplay loop, ffxiv, wow
and the
>copying wow so closely you ruin all of your core game designs with wow's bullshit rotations and bland gameplay, swtor, eso
>fallout 76 is a reminder that bethesda wastes money and has never made a game without modder help
so very little has changed and the entire range of mmos is declining at a very rapid rate
it's a shame too I just want something comfy to log into and have my own little world
>DOTA
>in current year
My issue with MMOs is that they all have an awful new player experiences if you don't start playing them on launch day
>earlygame areas is pure *crickets*
>catchup systems make the journey feel bland and cheap
>a gazillion systems that the game has accumulated over multiple years that you have to sift through and understand. Which ones are relevant to me as a noob? Which ones only get relevant a bazillion hours into endgame+++?
And if a new MMO does launch, a lot of the times it is a reboot/sequel of a classic one, which goes 1 of 2 days:
>you have all the veterans speedrunning through the game and leaving you in the dust, still somehow ending up with ghost town earlygame areas and even worse feeling left out and/or moronic
>you get adopted by a veteran and get babysat through the entire experience and getting all of it spoiled.
Would be curious to see if other people have experienced these feels. Basically never see them mentioned.
>Basically never see them mentioned.
Because it's intrinsic to them being persistent games, there will always be stragglers that need to be caught up because they didn't play earlier. If it's a huge problem for you don't play them.
for any pvp bros left still playing new world, highly recommend you avoid the game for now. pvp is crashing PCs and some of my company members are saying it's bricking SSDs.
Why is it always PvP players getting the short end of the stick...
Because they're traditionally one of the worse audiences you can appeal to in a MMORPG.
A huge chunk of them who played during the 90s/2000s got pulled away from the genre in favor of games like MOBAs, Battle royales, or loot extractions (like Dark and Darker for a recent one). As they provide a better overall pvp experience but still offer a sorta "progression like" system akin to what you see in mmorpgs. Just on a condensed/quicker scale.
What's left is generally not healthy for a mmorpgs life span. Out of all the audiences out there, they're the least likely to spend money (stingy with their money). They are often most likely to exhibit toxic behaviors. Most likely to perform exploits/cheats to get an edge. They're the most likely to throw a tantrum if something doesn't go exactly their way and try to kill the game by bad mouthing it anywhere they can. They have the most amount of players that glorify negatively impacting others experiences for their own amusement. They also hate losing and will b***h about anything that kills them. Claiming its a balance issue rather than a skill issue more often than not. This is true with all games, but its especially true with PvPers and PvP games. MMORPGs are no different with pvpers.
You can say anyone who cares about that sorta stuff is a snowflake/bitch. And I agree. But that's why most games don't invest too much into the group. Those negative aspects end up impacting revenue negatively, so they don't view it as a sound financial investment to appeal to them.
>Return of Reckoning
>Excellent PVP focused start
>Little imbalanced but it is low level and abundant combat
>Lvl 16 to 50 is constantly being outclassed by twinks or lvl 50s with stupid good gear
>Literally can't break 90% versus some people
I know I'll grind to 50.
>It's even worse as the low level bonus is gone and you still have shit gear
Why the frick doesn't the gear just drop from PVP? Why does the gear have to make such a difference? I get cosmetics and shit but some of these gear differences for lvl 50 and the expensive grind currency are a solid 30%. Why do you need to reward time sinking so heavily?
Back to Isonzo.
I've been looking into playing Tera again, there are a few private servers keeping it alive still, so if you are one the the "muh player interaction" in MMOs that can be right up your alley. The Heal/DPS division is pretty clear, but I think tanking is less needed in Tera, given you can dodge a lot of stuff iirc
How are the player numbers, is the market even active?
no idea fren, you'd have to join one of the discord servers and then check in-game yourself
Forgot to add that I find most of them just by googling or looking for yt videos on Tera
New World is pretty good. Just started getting into it
Dark age camlot eden Server starts tommrow.
https://eden-daoc.net/home
you never played the best Realm vs realm MMO based on king arthur the legends time is to start tommrow afternoon
Server is up active it's free play Go Go Go for dark age camlot fun.
I'm getting into UO outlands and like it so far
play vindictus
Chrono Odyssey ripped off Elden Ring and BDO
definitely worth keeping an eye on
>ESO - no formal roles.
This is good news for me. I dislike the trinity roles. Is Elder Scrolls online a real MMO, tho? Or is it like Fallout 76 or Read Dead Online where it's just an arena instance with like 12 people?
They do have formal roles, mainly in the endgame content is when it actually matters. OP just doesn't know what they're talking about. And yes its a real mmorpg. However a huge portion of their audience players it as a singleplayer rpg. Solo RPG players is arguably their biggest audience. Followed by the traditional dungeon/raiders and then PvPers at last, as usual.
Holy frick bros I'm just so fricking BORED
hytale/riot mmo/ghostcrawler mmo waiting room
When will they ever show some footage or at least give some news?
Riot mmo is still in preproduction. The entire tiem Ghostcrawler was there he was "teambuilding"
Hows eve online?
Even though CCP is trying to kill it, its still a good PVP sandbox with zero competition in that space
>zero competition in that space
Albion
It's a pvp sandbox, and does some things better than Eve like skill training by doing and accessible solo pvp content with Mists and Corrupted Dungeons.
>its a pvp sandbox
>by making you sit and click on rocks for 200 hours before you can actually start playing the real game
>accessable solo PVP with themepark style pvp instances
>>by making you sit and click on rocks for 200 hours before you can actually start playing the real game
I don't do that, my gathering is all low level and I make silver just doing pve and trading. Gathering is only good if you go all in on it like you said.
solo PVP with themepark style pvp instances
yes, it's still a sandbox even if you can't bring a friend to gang up on people (and they have mists for that too)
Albion is tibia with all it's problems dialed up to 11. It's awful.
Old-style MMOs "died" because people, gaming, the internet, and society all changed, but MMOs didn't.
Mostly because nu-gamers fold under any amount of difficulty and quit over any inconvenience. You can see it in some of the MMOs that have been constantly updated over the years, where complex skill trees have been decimated in favor of "gain x ability on level y", farming negotiations for hunting grounds becoming automated queues and the most disgusting of all: Games with no roles updating to force roles and party compositions. As these changes accumulate, the community splits into private servers and then the official count starts to look small. I'm pretty aure that if you counted all the people split through private servers for any old mmo, the player count would be big enough to call them "alive"
>MMOs didn't change
>instances
>group caps
>daily/weekly reset mechanics
>selling pay 2 win
>didn't change
MMOs did change
A new subgenre took over. The original MMOs never adapted to the new environment, they just keep doing the same thing and expecting the same result as they had 2 decades ago.
Most of them did add most of those, tho. Don't talk put of your ass.
*Its hard to say. I think MMORPGs really "adapted" to modern audiences in the 2010-2013 timeframe. I'd even go so far to say is it started with wotlk. Most modern highly popular MMORPGs are at their core deviated from the design of wotlk. With slight variations in things like classes/combat. But ultimately similar at the gameplay loop and how it manages players.
*Problem is that since then I don't think mmorpgs have adapted much. A few have tried something "different", but it didn't really stick. A lot of mmorpgs have tried, and failed, to "be like the golden years" of 1990-2006. Those have failed or barely have big populations either.
*The next issue is that many genres exploded in popularity, siphoning away players. We had survival games like Minecraft, Valheim, and others pulling away PvErs. We've had coop games like tides or DRG pulling away more PvErs. We've had MOBAs, BRs, and Loot extractors pulling away the PvPers. What's left now is a genre that isn't quite sure what its purpose is. It needs to capitalize on something to set itself apart, aside from nostalgia. But it isn't quite sure what that is.
I think the next big thing that will hit the genre. Something that could be as big as say FF14/WoW...will be a PvE focused game. And one that can take the singleplayer experience and transform it into something on a massive scale. A game like TES, Elden Ring, or similar PvE games. These massive open world experiences and some how iterating that experience into some kind of persistent open world experience with tons of players. New world was the first attempt at a "souls like" game in a MMORPG. And for obvious reasons it failed massively (mismanagement and such). But others will try to build upon it.
This entire post is moronic
>single player MMO
Just play a fricking single player game, there is a reason why MMOs are dead and its because all the MMOs that cater to sologays die because everyone would rather play monster hunter or souls games than another janky everquest/WOW clone with gacha energy chore mechanics
>I think the next big thing that will hit the genre. Something that could be as big as say FF14/WoW...will be a PvE focused game. And one that can take the singleplayer experience and transform it into something on a massive scale. A game like TES, Elden Ring, or similar PvE games. These massive open world experiences and some how iterating that experience into some kind of persistent open world experience with tons of players. New world was the first attempt at a "souls like" game in a MMORPG. And for obvious reasons it failed massively (mismanagement and such). But others will try to build upon it.
You are describing Genshin Impact, it was already the next big thing and we are going to be subject to a decade of this stuff
No no no, you misunderstand. Giving up being an MMO isn't "adapting", that's killing yourself. Modern MMOs killed themselves, they can barely even be called MMOs. Games that try to be "old school" do neither, that's why they're all dead on arrival, most of the traditional MMO design just doesn't work well because gamers and the internet have changed too much. Currently no MMO is adapting: trying to find a new approach while having the same kind of appeal as traditional MMOs had.
I fervently believe that procedural generation, randomness, and non-static content is the way to do it right. Games like roguelites, Minecraft, DayZ, Project Zomboid have elements that MMOs should have had first, but never even to this day have adopted. The world should change and be dynamic and unknowable and dangerous, that's what makes it interesting to play long-term and prevents wikis from knowing everything, prevents most meta strategies from forming, allows secrets that are very difficult to datamine, lowers the development effort which is thought to be astronomical for MMOs.
Even if a wiki has all the information, it may be useless to most people because it's too complicated and context-sensitive, like lightning weapons being stronger depending on how wet the environment is and how hard it's raining but also damaging yourself if the floor is wet but also being magnetized to metallic objects so it may not go where you aim. This EMPHASIZES what made old MMOs appealing; it feels more like a real virtual world because you have to think about what you're doing, and things actually matter.
Procedural generation also allows you to truly conquer content. In current MMOs, completing a dungeon is fake, you're not really completing anything, you're just running the same thing over and over. But if the dungeons can be generated procedurally, the game can generate infinite new dungeons, people can just work through and clear it out without ever respawning enemies/traps in it.
Project zomboid plays like an old graphical MUD. There is a lot of space for something like it with a proper MMO aspect where all players reside in one world.
>Procederal generation
Yes and no, progen fricking sucks if its barebones AF, you need some depth to it, one of the reasons why EVE works well as a sandbox is the PVE content is randomly generated, but statically designed, I.E. you'll never know when or where you'll see a 6/10 DED site, but its always the same challlenges and rewards.
But im sorry, if you're just going to claim that punch rock, punch wood, punch harder rock and harder wood, 100% procedurally generated is going to save the genre? No, thats exactly the opposite. The best MMOs always married a combination of sandbox and themepark perfectly, so that the world is both believable and something interesting to invest your time in, but its still your world to play with, what devs need to do is work on tools to make it easier to implement and run small events and treat the game as a massive scale D&D campaign, where there is an end goal for everyone to achieve before the world moves on, instead of just having a game thats on autopilot with progen(pure sandbox) or recycling systems(pure themepark)
I don't have the energy to argue with someone who takes a thin slice of the argument and comically exaggerates it into something moronic and then claims my argument is stupid because of that.
>Just be wow!
Frick you.
Mabinogi feels like a proper world without dialing up procedural generation to eleven.
>Modern MMOs killed themselves, they can barely even be called MMOs
I mean this is sorta of the issue right here. Nobody can agree on what actually "makes" an MMORPG. Like to me, massive experiences in a persistent open world environment with some form of character progression is the bare minimum. Yet the industry has shown that players overwhelmingly prefer things that aren't like that. WoW, FF14, ESO, etc. These are all players that prefer small scale experiences in controlled environments. 5 man dungeons. 10 man raids. small arena pvp. That's why games like Genshin are so popular. Now you can of course say that these players don't actually want a mmorpg and shouldn't be considered. And you'd be right for saying that, but there hasn't been a successful mmorpg based on that bare minimum yet in years..
A game that is good as an MMO is more of an MMO than a game that is effectively an addictive singleplayer game and just happens to also be massively multiplayer.
When we're talking about "good MMOs", you should be assuming the former, not the latter. It's not a "good MMO" if the MMO part of it isn't what's good.
Yeah but how many successful games out there can actually fall under the umbrella of a "good" mmorpg. That is ones that are still alive and have a competitive population. WoW, ESO, and FF14 are hyper focused on instances between 5-10 for PvE and what, 5-20 for PvP? Gw2 maybeee can be considered more of an MMORPG because they focus more on open world content. EvE and Albion can probably be considered mmorpgs.
It just feels like there's not a lot out there.
this was meant for
5 man instanced Co-op games with lobbies where you can see other players are not MMOs. There is nothing "Massive" about having a dozen or less players in a locked room where they cannot see any other players. Closer to fricking Halo than an MMO.
>the industry has shown that players overwhelmingly prefer smaler shit
No it hasn't, WOW dropped off a cliff once 10 man became standard and dungeon finder was added to the game, all other MMOs that copied the WOW formula of raid or die small group bullshit with nothing outside of that content to do has failed to break a million subs. The biggest contender thus far has been FF14 and that game is played as an ERP sim more than anything.
Even after WoW dropped in popularity, its still the most popular MMORPG out there. FF14 is at the same level as WoW as "players doing small stuff". The drop in population in WoW from wotlk onward was not just cause they started focusing on smaller gameplay content. I'd say that was more of a symptom. The genre's been bleeding players for a long time for the various reasons already discussed in this thread. Anytime some ambitious mmorpg comes along claiming it will be different. How it will focus on large scale group content and not appeal to the "modern" standards; it ends up dying.
Are there any other MMOs that have something like GW2's WvW? It's one of the main reasons I consider playing that game again.
ESO Cyrodil, Dark age of Camelot (private server) and Albion faction war
Also Champions of Regnum but afaik it's dead unless you're a south American and there's the Warhammer Online private server Age of Reckoning
Compensation is.
We get combos and these taken down. Give it some time. Talk about sentence order huh?
Albion gets combined with wow and probably mabinology some. Bought skins? Bought weapons? Expect presets by playstart and also progres traceback.
Uh yeah obviously neverwinter in the mentioned combo also yes...
We also get an tribes and halo combo. Reality paintbal thing integration.
Black desert online with maplestory and more guys. Just imagine it and wait. Consoles coming to you no stres. No pay.
On the draftback of what? We lose an epicentrae of gaming overfishing yet also ragequits. Interested in the Shrek game? It is online. Might drop into beta if not already for some. Console and PC true cross-reference for every title.
Made by who? It is auto-generated.
Half life two has an online mode campaign. Check it and run.
Mine craft and teraria type of self makes into many titles OK?
Do not forget about dwarfortres mine craft mode already available on PC for newest version!
lmoa even
when the frick can i fap to hit2 global?
im not the first one to tell you this but maybe you should try something different? like rts or fps or anything else but mmo? since you already putting so much effort into looking for a good game why not try different games
Thinking it's about time I try that Final Fantasy MMO, only to find there's actually 2; XI and XIV. What's the difference?
XI is 21 years old and plays like Everquest
XIV is 10 years old and plays like WoW
I'm going off tangent but why is it that the short races in every mmo have the most obnoxious players that are also highly vocal about their race being the best?
Lalafels, hobbits, goblins, asuras, dwarves, elins, etc etc.
never experienced this from dwarf players, you are probably confusing it with the dwarves hate elves memes and stuff like that.