bird no like cold
dragonslayer type? i guess?
ground i have no idea (thematically)
I think I get his reasoning: >Flying types freeze and fall out of the air. >Dragontypes(Lizards) are coldblooded and fall into torpor during the cold. >Ground cracks and rips apart from ice formation.
Campaignshitters want every type to just be a reskin of one another with exactly the same number of resistances and weaknesses because they’re morons who don’t understand how game design works.
Hey Anon? I don't really want to engage in intellectual discussion in the Ice Type Is Bad Thread No. 546,201, but I just wanted to say your thread is better than 500,000 of those threads, because you DIDN'T say Ice should resist Water. And I respect you for being one of like 6 people on /vp/ who is actually fricking sane.
>ONLY DURING SNOW Ice resists Water >All other times, it's neutral >Ice is SE on Water (Water Types lose common access to Ice Beam) >Ice resists Electric (Electric is now SE on mons who have Levitate, to make up for this) >Ice resists Dragon (Fairy's Dragon immunity becomes a resist) >Ice resists either Ground or Flying, I don't care which >Snow no longer raises Ice Type defenses. It instead cuts the Speed of all non-Ice Types down to 50%. A lot of Ice Types also just are given slightly higher Speed stats in the first place. >Aurora Beam will have 1.5x base power and always set up an Aurora Veil, if both Snow is up and the user is holding a special item
Scrap all of that, add Frozen Tundra as a terrain, Frozen Tundra reduces Speed and Defense depending on type effectiveness, 50% for weak to Ice, 20% for neutral, Pokemon that resist Ice are unaffected. Frozen Tundra's duration is reduced by 1 turn for every Ice weakness used while it's active
Ice should've resisted Fairy. With a simple change it would've had a notable defensive niche while still not being "good".
but no, instead Fire gains a sixth resistance to Fairy for no other reason other than to make sure CHARIZARD's new form wasn't weak to the girly type
>>Ice should [buff] >NO FRICK OFF CAMPAIGNSHITTER >*posts same webm of Ninetales using Sheer Cold against Toxapex/Articuno abusing Snow Cloak, or some Ice type who is balanced by having Ice be a handicap for it*
There, thread is now over.
>some Ice type who is balanced by having Ice be a handicap for it*
This is explicitly how the game is designed, Pokemon aren’t made independently from their typings
Sometimes they are. Game Freak gives out types it thinks are good to Pokemon it likes. Lucario has no reason to be a Fighting/Steel type. Same with Zacian being Fairy/Steel.
I think the simplest solution to why balance issues are as blatant as they are is that Game Freak is simply incompetent.
Zacian is fairy steel because King Arthur is a fairy tale and it has a sword, Restricted Pokemon aren’t supposed to be balanced. Lucario they just stapled spikes to it
Ice is a poor conductor of electricity so it should resist Electric.
Ice cubes can be used to store poisons so Ice should resist Poison.
Ice is also literally water but solid so Ice should resist Water too.
Also to compensate Electric is now super effective to Fairy (manmade machines run on electricity) and Poison is super effective to Water (pollution) >b-but muh glasscannon headcanons!!!
Don’t care. If Ground, Water, and Fairy can have both amazing offense and defense, Ice can be good offensively and decent defensively too.
>>Ice should [buff] >NO FRICK OFF CAMPAIGNSHITTER >*posts same webm of Ninetales using Sheer Cold against Toxapex/Articuno abusing Snow Cloak, or some Ice type who is balanced by having Ice be a handicap for it*
There, thread is now over.
>n-no you see baxcalibur having one of the best stabs ever and resisting every physical move in the game is a handicap because I looked at the type chart
zzz
>>n-no you see baxcalibur having one of the best stabs ever
Baxcalibur is not a Fairy, Ground, Dark, Ghost, Fighting, Fire, Water, or Rock type >resisting every physical move in the game
Anon, learn how the game actually works (aka play the game) before saying moronic shit like this.
because alot of ice types arent built to be speedy attackers and are in fact fairly slow and bulky
hell its only in gen9 where they bucked this trend with chien pao baxcalibur iron bundle and even cetitian with its ability
Glastrier isn’t a speedy attacker and it’s still good
Calyrex isn’t a speedy attacker and it’s still good
Abomasnow isn’t a speedy attacker and it’s still good
Mamoswine isn’t a speedy attacker and it’s still good
>Glastrier isn’t a speedy attacker and it’s still good
Glastrier is a shitmon, especially compared to Spectrier.
>Calyrex isn’t a speedy attacker and it’s still good
Calyrex-I is a shitmon because it shares the same species as Calyrex-S. You can't have both, and who in their right mind would choose Ice Rider over Shadow Rider unless you're running a dedicated Trick Room team? In 90% of circumstances, Shadow Rider is just out and out the better option.
>Abomasnow isn’t a speedy attacker and it’s still good
It's a shitmon, anon. No one ever uses it over A-Ninetales. Hell, Vulpix was banned from ZU because Abomasnow was getting countered by a baby Pokemon. People were more terrified of Sunflora and Vulpix than they were of Abomasnow and Articuno.
>Mamoswine isn’t a speedy attacker and it’s still good
Mamoswine has been powercrept super hard in recent generations. In early gens, its speed was more than okay considering it's a wall breaker. Now it's too slow to do anything to offensive teams, and Game Freak neutered Stall so hard that few people ever use it anymore meaning Mamoswine lost its only remaining niche.
Charizard isn’t a speedy attacker and it’s still good
Mewtwo isn’t a speedy attacker and it’s still good
Mega Rayquaza isn’t a speedy attacker and it’s still good
Zacian isn’t a speedy attacker and it’s still good
Campaignshitters want every type to just be a reskin of one another with exactly the same number of resistances and weaknesses because they’re morons who don’t understand how game design works.
>BUT ICE IS SUPPOSED TO BE OFFENSE FOCUSED
Shit only applies for Gen 1 Ice type. Fire and Steel resistance really crippled it offensively.
And besides, it’s not like other types that are on par if not better than Ice offensively have severally crippling weaknesses. Ground is amazing offensively, on par with Ice at least, and amazing defensively too, yet no one minds how strong ground is on both sides. Yet people freak out when ever someone suggests Ice being buffed defensively at any capacity.
> Shit only applies for Gen 1 Ice type.
Nope. If you’re using ice types defensively you’re literally just using them wrong.
> Fire and Steel resistance really crippled it offensively
That’s weird, it sure doesn’t feel like I’m being crippled offensively when I 1HKO or freeze them for free.
>Ground is amazing offensively,
ground has an entire type that’s immune to it, ground has an entire ability that’s immune to it, ground doesn’t have weather support that gives it massive free defense buffs, ground doesn’t have a status condition that instantly incapacitates opponents, ground has incredibly limited special move coverage
>nearly all ice types are lumped in [irrelevant fanfic tier]
How is this relevant at all? This is why smogtards are annoying as frick btw. They try to shove their shitty fanfic rules down everyone’s throat and pretend Game Freak is supposed to magically design around it. And yes, every Pokemon in that image is used offensively when the person using them actually knows what they’re doing.
I dunno, I think I trust Smogon autists who play the game all day everyday over some schmuck on /vp/ who can't get past 1200 ELO or beat a Frontier Brain in game.
Go frick yourself Versilitroony. Smogon tiering is objectively good to measure Pokemon individual viablity.
Unlike VGC were 99.9% of Pokemon that aren't DLC/side game paywalled never see use.
I’d just like to remind Freezetard that Paralysis is better than Freeze, especially if you forgo luck factors.
Freeze is easier to prevent, easier to cure, and Paralysis will always halve the opponent’s speed.
Watch as Freezetard apply luck and probability to Paralysis while also defending Freeze because he is incapable of not shitposting.
> I’d just like to remind Freezetard that Paralysis is better than Freeze,
No. If I paralyze an opponent they have a 75% chance of still acting. If I freeze an opponent they only have a 20% chance of still acting. Freeze is by far the strongest status condition in the game. If you freeze an opponent it often means you automatically beat them.
Don’t worry I’ll help you with your homework.
1. T/F Does 80% equal 100%?
False, 80% is lower than 100%.
2. What is more likely to happen, using Glare and your opponent being paralyzed first turn, or using Ice Beam + being frozen + not immediately thawing out?
It’s Glare paralyzing first turn. 100% accuracy times 25% chance to paralyze is a 25% chance to paralyze. Meanwhile using Ice Beam, there is only a 10% chance to Freeze and an 80% chance they’ll remain frozen. 10% times 80% is 8% which is lower than being paralyzed first turn vs Glare
Btw here are all the ways to prevent/cure Paralysis vs Freeze
Paralysis >Cheri Berry >Being hit by Smelling Salts >Being an electric type >Have Limber as an ability >That’s literally it for all unique ways to prevent/cure paralysis
Freeze >Thawing out by chance >Aspear Berry (just a different berry) >Being hit by ANY fire type move >Being hit by ANY move that changes type and is currently fire type move >Being hit by Scald, Steam Eruption, Scorching Sands, or Matcha Gotcha >Using the moves Flame Wheel, Sacred Fire, Flare Blitz, Fusion Flare, Scald, Steam Eruption, Burn Up, Pyro Ball, Scorching Sands, and Matcha Gotcha >Being an Ice type (just different type) >Having Magma Armor as an ability >Having Shield Dust because you can only be frozen by attacking moves >Holding Covert Cloak for the same reason >Harsh Sunlight is up >That’s it for all the unique ways to prevent/cure freeze, berry and type immunity really just being the same too but with a different name
Another Ice thread, another bout of endless autism over a literal gimmick type that only exists because it was the secret "gotcha" to Lance's Dragon Types, who were otherwise resilient to all the most common attacking types aside from Normal and Psychic.
>Remove Fairy type >Make Ice immune to Dragon (it makes more sense anyways) >Make Ice resist Water while having Scald be SE against Ice types >Keep S/V's reduced Scald distribution while nerfing Scald to 70 base power to match Freeze Dry >New ability distributed to many Ice types called Snow Pack. This ability makes it so that during Snow, the Pokemon with this ability gain a resistance to Ground, Flying, and Bug type attacks >Frostbite added into the game. Ice type version of Will O Wisp is added into the game that has perfect accuracy if used by an Ice type or during Snow. Frozen still exists, but it only happens if a Pokemon that is Frostbitten gets Frostbitten again
There, I fixed the Ice type. Now Defensive Ice types have a niche, Ice becomes better offensively with the removal of Fairy and the addition of Frostbite, and now Ice types can have a signature status effect that isn't ass.
>There, I fixed the Ice type
all you did was make the game balance drastically worse
>Now Defensive Ice types have a niche
they don't need a niche, if you want to use a defensive pokemon use another type
>Ice becomes better offensively
you didn't make it better offensively because you added frostbite like a fricking moron which only benefits defensive pokemon
>and now Ice types can have a signature status effect that isn't ass
All you did was make their signature status effect worse.
>all you did was make the game balance drastically worse
No, that drastically improved the balance. QED
>they don't need a niche, if you want to use a defensive pokemon use another type
Over half of all the Ice types are slow and defensive.
>you didn't make it better offensively because you added frostbite like a fricking moron which only benefits defensive pokemon
Frostbite make Ice type SpA attackers more valuable since they can easily switch in on Frostbite. The removal of Fairy also greatly helps Ice types' viability since they would be one of the only 2 types in the game capable of hitting Dragon for SE. Their immunity to Dragon would also give them more ins so they can fire off their powerful attacks more than once or twice a game.
>All you did was make their signature status effect worse.
How? Frostbite is fantastic, and you can still cause Freeze by reapplying Frostbite.
>No, that drastically improved the balance
Yeah bro I love how you made Poison and Steel complete dogshit because you felt the need to remove Fairy for no reason.
>Over half of all the Ice types are slow and defensive.
[citation needed]
>Frostbite make Ice type SpA attackers more valuable since they can easily switch in on Frostbite
They can already easily switch in on Frostbite because Frostbite already doesn't exist. You're doing nothing solving a problem you invented.
> The removal of Fairy also greatly helps Ice types' viability since they would be one of the only 2 types in the game capable of hitting Dragon for SE
You think people use Fairy and Ice types to hit Dragons super effectively? The degree to which campaignshitters don't understand the game beyond staring at type match ups always fricking makes me laugh.
>Their immunity to Dragon would also give them more ins
They already have enough ins if you're actually good at the game and know how it works beyond "durff fire beat grass"
>How? Frostbite is fantastic
Ice is an offensive type. Adding a status condition that only benefits defensive Pokemon doesn't do jack shit.
>Yeah bro I love how you made Poison and Steel complete dogshit because you felt the need to remove Fairy for no reason.
Steel would still be incredibly strong, easily a top 3 type, if Fairy were removed. If it's not strong "enough", maybe give it back its Dark resistance and then give Dark back Pursuit to keep Ghost in check too.
As for Poison, it's still not good even with Fairy around. If you really want to buff its offensive power, make it SE against Water. Water could use the nerf and Poison could use the buff. It's pretty easy to justify, too, what with a relatively small amount of pollutants being able to completely BTFO entire aquatic ecosystems, not to mention the mercury poisoning going on in the oceans.
>They can already easily switch in on Frostbite because Frostbite already doesn't exist. You're doing nothing solving a problem you invented.
Yes, but Frostbite would be a check on other offensive types that wouldn't exist for Ice. Just like Fire type physical attackers get a huge bonus over non-Fire types because they're immune to Burn, Ice types would get a huge bonus of non-Ice types because they can't be Frostbitten.
>You think people use Fairy and Ice types to hit Dragons super effectively?
Iron Valiant is one of the strongest and most commonly used Pokemon in standard play. Fairy has been one of the top 3 dominant types in OU since its inception even despite there being so few (good) Fairy types.
As for Ice? It would be if not for Fairy type being better at the role of Dragon slaying.
>They already have enough ins if you're actually good at the game and know how it works beyond "durff fire beat grass"
You're insane if you think Ice types have ins currently. Even when Chien Pao and Baxcalibur were in OU, bringing them in was their only drawback. It's hard to bring in Ice types when they eat massive shit from hazards and don't have any resistances. If your Ice type isn't immediately threatening a KO upon entry, it's entirely useless.
>OU
I’m talking about the game, not fanfic garbage.
>People do use freeze as part of their foresight and game plans.
That's simply not true considering there is no reliable way to inflict it and it's only seen as a nice bonus. Just like people don't factor in Flamethrower's burn chance.
>That's simply not true
Why would you not consider a wincon when playing the game? Are you moronic?
>b-buh it’s not reliable
It doesn’t need to be reliable, moron.
Freezetard is a gambling addict that doesn’t understand probability or even how Freeze actually works.
And as a gambling addict, they hate the idea of foresight and gameplans. They love abilities like Snow Cloak or Moody (thinking its associated with Ice type too) and moves like Sheer Cold.
He’ll also post niche scenarios like being on your last Pokemon and about to die but only a Freeze can save you, without realizing that maybe better planning (nsmely crippling something with Frostbite) would prevent you from getting in those scenarios.
Oh and also additionally Freezetard will ignore the luck factors of Freeze by claiming Ice Beam is an OHKO move because it POTENTIALLY can freeze an opponent forever, but suddenly applies luck when talking about Paralysis which is strictly better in everyway besides the lower chance to skip opponent’s turn, because otherwise he has no other argument as to why Freeze should still exist.
>People do use freeze as part of their foresight and game plans.
That's simply not true considering there is no reliable way to inflict it and it's only seen as a nice bonus. Just like people don't factor in Flamethrower's burn chance.
None of those would fix Ice type. Are you fricking moronic?
Why anti-smogonards always come up with the most competitive illiterate takes?
Ice have dogshit defensive power they will never survive long enough to consistently land a OHKO, Sheer Cold only got banned as collateral damage of the other two versions being the better OHKO move.
Snow cloak same, it only got banned as collateral of the sand version being the better one.
If those "fix" ice type then show me how those in-game make Ice types dominate ranked.
>None of those would fix Ice type
Evidently they would since Ice type is fine in the actual game.
>Ice have dogshit defensive power
What is Snow?
What is Snow Cloak?
What is Aurora Veil?
>Sheer Cold only got banned as collateral damage of the other two versions being the better OHKO move
Sheer Cold is literally the best OHKO move in the game because the fewest Pokemon are immune to it.
>If those "fix" ice type then show me how those in-game make Ice types dominate ranked.
Did you miss the regional with hundreds of players two months back where someone literally won the whole tournament with a Ninetales Articuno team? It wasn’t even a niche thing either, multiple people were running a similar setup.
>Evidently they would since Ice type is fine in the actual game.
It's not. its dogshit. >What is Snow? >What is Snow Cloak? >What is Aurora Veil?
x1.5 def doesn't make up for being weak to everything. You're moron who would say Aggron is a good defensive mon because it has high defense.
Snow Cloak hardly ever kicks, which is why nobody uses it
Aurora Veil is shit because any steel type walls Ninetales and the other user is fricking abomasnow. Not even disproportionate good moves can save this type >Sheer Cold is literally the best OHKO move in the game because the fewest Pokemon are immune to it.
Sheer Cold is dogshit because it's in dogshit defensively weak Pokemon, therefore it's the worst. The same reason Revival Blessing has no use because it's on useless Pokemon. Moves don't exist in a vacuum. Ting Lu is the only good proven OHKO move user. >Did you miss the regional with hundreds of players two months back where someone literally won the whole tournament with a Ninetales Articuno team? It wasn’t even a niche thing either, multiple people were running a similar setup.
That's just in doubles and Articuno only did well because it was a obscure strat nobody was prepared for and it was largely thanks to the current generational gimmick which will be gone in a gen.
>x1.5 def doesn't make up for being weak to everything
It actually does. Especially when it can be stacked with Aurora Veil.
>Aurora Veil is shit because any steel type walls Ninetales
Damn bro if only Ninetales had a move that allowed to instantly KO steel types anyway
>and the other user is fricking abomasnow
Yeah? What's wrong with Abomasnow?
>Sheer Cold is dogshit because it's in dogshit defensively weak Pokemon
That's weird. My Pokemon sure don't feel defensively weak when they resist every physical move.
>Ting Lu is the only good proven OHKO move user.
Then why is Articuno also a good proven OHKO move user?
>That's just in doubles
The actual game, yeah.
>and Articuno only did well because it was a obscure strat
It wasn't obscure.
>still at it
This moron would simp for every moronic decision GF made so he can get back at Smogon and anyone critical of type imbalances.
Even top VGCgays like wolfe have made videos on how much Ice type sucks, but I guess everyone else is wrong except for the one moron on Ganker who thinks Sheer Cold is a viable strategy lmao
That israelite can't even finish any of the easy games without savescumming until his """Sheer Cold""" garbage goes off. That's why he has to pretend his betters enjoy some """campaign""" because apparently even that shit is too hard for him.
Wolfe is a good player but his videos are full of garbage takes. He thought Tinkaton would be good purely because of the “FAIRY/STEEL IS LE BEST TYPING IN THE GAME” meme campaignshitters like to spam.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
But Tinkaton is good, it has insane support move pool and won a lot of top places in the early days of SV.
The only reason it fell off was because they added Chi-c**t, Black personpon heartflame and further buffed Incelroar as the most busted supporter that outclasses everything else..
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>But Tinkaton is good,
yeah maybe in fanfic clown world where everything better than it is banned
>and won a lot of top places in the early days of SV
even in regulation A it was trash.
I don’t want to fuel the fire, but OHKO moves are sometimes viable in VGC and BSS and even Sheer Cold.
It’s either
A. Really bulky Pokemon that can afford fishing for OHKOs vs really bulky Pokemon (see Lapras and Ting-Lu)
B. Your movepool/coverage options are so lacking that you might as well run it as a last ditch effort to break past a wall. (See Ninetales-A running it sometimes)
But yes generally speaking OHKO moves suck.
Kind of crazy how Yawngay still justifies Ice being so shit when Ground and Rock exist. >Muh Snow!
Sand has been raising Rock’s SpD since Gen 4, by the same x1.5 amount (Yawngay doesn’t even know how either works and thinks its x2) >Muh Snow Cloak Gambling!
Sand Veil exists, is on tons of Ground types as well as various other Pokemon. >Muh Sheer Cold gambling!
The best user of an OHKO in the game is Ting-Lu, a Ground type using Fissure. Ting-Lu actually has the bulk and typing to use Fissure effectively, which matters way more than immunities. >but muh webm of Ninetales vs Toxapex!
Ninetales uses it at a niche option because its movepool is so barren and can at best try to Hypnosis it. Plus Ting-Lu sees tons more results. >Muh Freeze gambling!
Would you rather just deal 75% to Toxapex with Earthquake or deal 25% and hope you freeze, they don’t thaw out immediately or dozens of other factors that would prevent/cure freeze? Like lmao just kill them. Speaking of >Muh glass cannon type!
Ground is better than Ice offensively. Literally just kill the Steel and Fire types with Earthquake lol lmao. Like what they gonna do? Throw plant at you? Some bugs? Whoops just squished that bug and birds with the common as Rock coverage and common ass Fire coverage. Like homie just spam Earthquake.
>b-buh ground
ground has an entire type that’s immune to it
ground has an entire ability that’s immune to it
ground doesn’t have weather support that gives it massive free defense buffs
ground doesn’t have a status condition that instantly incapacitates opponents
ground has incredibly limited special move coverage therefore it easily gets fricked by burn and intimidate and limits your offensive options
>b-buh rock
rock doesn’t have a 1HKO move
rock doesn’t have a status condition that instantly incapacitates opponents
rock moves almost universally have less reliable accuracy
rock doesn’t have a move that’s SE against 5 different types
rock has incredibly limited special move coverage therefore it easily gets fricked by burn and intimidate and limits your offensive options
Yeah Ice is great! I love doing no damage to Water, Fire, and Steel types while being as fragile as a wet paper towel, dying instant to Rock Slides, Heat Wave, MIR, etc.
>he doesn’t know freeze dry exists >he doesn’t know sheer cold exists >he doesn’t know aurora veil exists
this is the type of person who tries to suggest balance changes btw
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>He doesn’t know you can use ground immune Pokemon as your ally >He doesn’t know what Gravity is >He doesn’t know what High Horsepower is >He doesn’t know Screens increase the bulk of every Pokemon your side
it’s always funny when campaignshitters think you’re always going to conveniently have a non grounded ally because their only knowledge of doubles is the babby campaign that requires zero strategy beyond mashing A at NPCs
>Bro Ice is so good because of Sheer Cold can OHKO Steel and Fire Types!
204+ Atk Choice Band Landorus-Therian Stomping Tantrum vs. 228 HP / 84 Def Heatran: 388-460 (198.9 - 235.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Literally like lmao who needs Sheer Cold for Steel and Fire types when you can just use regular high accuracy moves?
Tbh this is a bit too much. I think changing only resistances should be enought, the Ice type is pretty good offesively as it is now.
Trade its Ice resistance for a water resistance and give it a Ground or Dragon resistance should be enough.
Also Freeze into Frostbite.
Why would Ice resist Flying, Ground and Dragon?
Balance, but do you really think each interaction across every type has a scientific reasoning behind it???
Because they don't.
You didn’t balance the type. All you did was homogenize it while also making it broken.
bird no like cold
dragonslayer type? i guess?
ground i have no idea (thematically)
I think I get his reasoning:
>Flying types freeze and fall out of the air.
>Dragontypes(Lizards) are coldblooded and fall into torpor during the cold.
>Ground cracks and rips apart from ice formation.
For the same reasons Ice is super effective to them
hide moronic headcanon troony threads
>it’s another campaignshitter screeching because he can’t understand the game beyond looking at the type chart
Campaignshitter will never be a meme.
1 attention given.
Hey Anon? I don't really want to engage in intellectual discussion in the Ice Type Is Bad Thread No. 546,201, but I just wanted to say your thread is better than 500,000 of those threads, because you DIDN'T say Ice should resist Water. And I respect you for being one of like 6 people on /vp/ who is actually fricking sane.
Ice and Water should be neutral against each other.
It should be
>ONLY DURING SNOW Ice resists Water
>All other times, it's neutral
>Ice is SE on Water (Water Types lose common access to Ice Beam)
>Ice resists Electric (Electric is now SE on mons who have Levitate, to make up for this)
>Ice resists Dragon (Fairy's Dragon immunity becomes a resist)
>Ice resists either Ground or Flying, I don't care which
>Snow no longer raises Ice Type defenses. It instead cuts the Speed of all non-Ice Types down to 50%. A lot of Ice Types also just are given slightly higher Speed stats in the first place.
>Aurora Beam will have 1.5x base power and always set up an Aurora Veil, if both Snow is up and the user is holding a special item
It should be
>none of these things and anon starts actually playing the game to learn how it works
Scrap all of that, add Frozen Tundra as a terrain, Frozen Tundra reduces Speed and Defense depending on type effectiveness, 50% for weak to Ice, 20% for neutral, Pokemon that resist Ice are unaffected. Frozen Tundra's duration is reduced by 1 turn for every Ice weakness used while it's active
Hey man congrats on pokemon unbound, it's a big achievement.
>>Ice resists Dragon (Fairy's Dragon immunity becomes a resist)
why not just make fairy weak to ice
Surf should gain double power after using Moonlight or Moonblast because tides are affected by the moon's gravity
Ice should've resisted Fairy. With a simple change it would've had a notable defensive niche while still not being "good".
but no, instead Fire gains a sixth resistance to Fairy for no other reason other than to make sure CHARIZARD's new form wasn't weak to the girly type
>Ice should've resisted Fairy
no it shouldn't have
>>Ice should [buff]
>NO FRICK OFF CAMPAIGNSHITTER
>*posts same webm of Ninetales using Sheer Cold against Toxapex/Articuno abusing Snow Cloak, or some Ice type who is balanced by having Ice be a handicap for it*
There, thread is now over.
Also all the wojaks that get spammed.
>some Ice type who is balanced by having Ice be a handicap for it*
This is explicitly how the game is designed, Pokemon aren’t made independently from their typings
Sometimes they are. Game Freak gives out types it thinks are good to Pokemon it likes. Lucario has no reason to be a Fighting/Steel type. Same with Zacian being Fairy/Steel.
I think the simplest solution to why balance issues are as blatant as they are is that Game Freak is simply incompetent.
Zacian is fairy steel because King Arthur is a fairy tale and it has a sword, Restricted Pokemon aren’t supposed to be balanced. Lucario they just stapled spikes to it
Ice is a poor conductor of electricity so it should resist Electric.
Ice cubes can be used to store poisons so Ice should resist Poison.
Ice is also literally water but solid so Ice should resist Water too.
Also to compensate Electric is now super effective to Fairy (manmade machines run on electricity) and Poison is super effective to Water (pollution)
>b-but muh glasscannon headcanons!!!
Don’t care. If Ground, Water, and Fairy can have both amazing offense and defense, Ice can be good offensively and decent defensively too.
See
>n-no you see baxcalibur having one of the best stabs ever and resisting every physical move in the game is a handicap because I looked at the type chart
zzz
>>n-no you see baxcalibur having one of the best stabs ever
Baxcalibur is not a Fairy, Ground, Dark, Ghost, Fighting, Fire, Water, or Rock type
>resisting every physical move in the game
Anon, learn how the game actually works (aka play the game) before saying moronic shit like this.
>Baxcalibur is not a Fairy, Ground, Dark, Ghost, Fighting, Fire, Water, or Rock type
You’re right, it isn’t. That’s what makes it good.
>Anon, learn how the game actually works
You first.
3 extra resists is big overkill, don't know why it's so hard for people to understand that Ice is intended to be an offensive focused type
because alot of ice types arent built to be speedy attackers and are in fact fairly slow and bulky
hell its only in gen9 where they bucked this trend with chien pao baxcalibur iron bundle and even cetitian with its ability
Glastrier isn’t a speedy attacker and it’s still good
Calyrex isn’t a speedy attacker and it’s still good
Abomasnow isn’t a speedy attacker and it’s still good
Mamoswine isn’t a speedy attacker and it’s still good
Have you considered you’re just bad at the game
calyrex isnt an ice type moron its a ghost/psychic type
this poster is the type of person who tries to give balance suggestions for the game btw
no I'm saying no one uses ice rider in favor of the much better shadow rider
>no I'm saying no one uses ice rider
this poster is the type of person who tries to give balance suggestions for the game btw
>Glastrier isn’t a speedy attacker and it’s still good
Glastrier is a shitmon, especially compared to Spectrier.
>Calyrex isn’t a speedy attacker and it’s still good
Calyrex-I is a shitmon because it shares the same species as Calyrex-S. You can't have both, and who in their right mind would choose Ice Rider over Shadow Rider unless you're running a dedicated Trick Room team? In 90% of circumstances, Shadow Rider is just out and out the better option.
>Abomasnow isn’t a speedy attacker and it’s still good
It's a shitmon, anon. No one ever uses it over A-Ninetales. Hell, Vulpix was banned from ZU because Abomasnow was getting countered by a baby Pokemon. People were more terrified of Sunflora and Vulpix than they were of Abomasnow and Articuno.
>Mamoswine isn’t a speedy attacker and it’s still good
Mamoswine has been powercrept super hard in recent generations. In early gens, its speed was more than okay considering it's a wall breaker. Now it's too slow to do anything to offensive teams, and Game Freak neutered Stall so hard that few people ever use it anymore meaning Mamoswine lost its only remaining niche.
>Glastrier is a shitmon
Thanks for outing yourself as a moron four words in so I don't need to bother reading the rest of the post.
>Fanfic format
lol, lmao
Play real Pokemon (singles) before speaking to me, prole.
>losers bracket
why did you post people who used it and failed anon
>why did you post people who used it and f-ACK!
Charizard isn’t a speedy attacker and it’s still good
Mewtwo isn’t a speedy attacker and it’s still good
Mega Rayquaza isn’t a speedy attacker and it’s still good
Zacian isn’t a speedy attacker and it’s still good
Have you considered you’re just bad at the game
Campaignshitters want every type to just be a reskin of one another with exactly the same number of resistances and weaknesses because they’re morons who don’t understand how game design works.
>BUT ICE IS SUPPOSED TO BE OFFENSE FOCUSED
Shit only applies for Gen 1 Ice type. Fire and Steel resistance really crippled it offensively.
And besides, it’s not like other types that are on par if not better than Ice offensively have severally crippling weaknesses. Ground is amazing offensively, on par with Ice at least, and amazing defensively too, yet no one minds how strong ground is on both sides. Yet people freak out when ever someone suggests Ice being buffed defensively at any capacity.
> Shit only applies for Gen 1 Ice type.
Nope. If you’re using ice types defensively you’re literally just using them wrong.
> Fire and Steel resistance really crippled it offensively
That’s weird, it sure doesn’t feel like I’m being crippled offensively when I 1HKO or freeze them for free.
>Ground is amazing offensively,
ground has an entire type that’s immune to it, ground has an entire ability that’s immune to it, ground doesn’t have weather support that gives it massive free defense buffs, ground doesn’t have a status condition that instantly incapacitates opponents, ground has incredibly limited special move coverage
And not all Pokemon are offensive moron.
Nearly all the ice types are lumped in ZU
>nearly all ice types are lumped in [irrelevant fanfic tier]
How is this relevant at all? This is why smogtards are annoying as frick btw. They try to shove their shitty fanfic rules down everyone’s throat and pretend Game Freak is supposed to magically design around it. And yes, every Pokemon in that image is used offensively when the person using them actually knows what they’re doing.
I dunno, I think I trust Smogon autists who play the game all day everyday over some schmuck on /vp/ who can't get past 1200 ELO or beat a Frontier Brain in game.
>he thinks tier list starers play the game all day
They have millions of monthly battles.
Go frick yourself Versilitroony. Smogon tiering is objectively good to measure Pokemon individual viablity.
Unlike VGC were 99.9% of Pokemon that aren't DLC/side game paywalled never see use.
>freeze them for free
yeh its not like fire moves thaw them out or anything
Don’t argue with Freezetard. You’re better off arguing with a brick wall.
Cool now what about literally every other move in the game
I’d just like to remind Freezetard that Paralysis is better than Freeze, especially if you forgo luck factors.
Freeze is easier to prevent, easier to cure, and Paralysis will always halve the opponent’s speed.
Watch as Freezetard apply luck and probability to Paralysis while also defending Freeze because he is incapable of not shitposting.
> I’d just like to remind Freezetard that Paralysis is better than Freeze,
No. If I paralyze an opponent they have a 75% chance of still acting. If I freeze an opponent they only have a 20% chance of still acting. Freeze is by far the strongest status condition in the game. If you freeze an opponent it often means you automatically beat them.
Anon, please finish first grade math before badmouthing people smarter than you.
You first.
Don’t worry I’ll help you with your homework.
1. T/F Does 80% equal 100%?
False, 80% is lower than 100%.
2. What is more likely to happen, using Glare and your opponent being paralyzed first turn, or using Ice Beam + being frozen + not immediately thawing out?
It’s Glare paralyzing first turn. 100% accuracy times 25% chance to paralyze is a 25% chance to paralyze. Meanwhile using Ice Beam, there is only a 10% chance to Freeze and an 80% chance they’ll remain frozen. 10% times 80% is 8% which is lower than being paralyzed first turn vs Glare
Why are you talking about Glare and Ice Beam? The post was talking about Paralysis vs Freeze. You aight, goalpost moving schizo?
Btw here are all the ways to prevent/cure Paralysis vs Freeze
Paralysis
>Cheri Berry
>Being hit by Smelling Salts
>Being an electric type
>Have Limber as an ability
>That’s literally it for all unique ways to prevent/cure paralysis
Freeze
>Thawing out by chance
>Aspear Berry (just a different berry)
>Being hit by ANY fire type move
>Being hit by ANY move that changes type and is currently fire type move
>Being hit by Scald, Steam Eruption, Scorching Sands, or Matcha Gotcha
>Using the moves Flame Wheel, Sacred Fire, Flare Blitz, Fusion Flare, Scald, Steam Eruption, Burn Up, Pyro Ball, Scorching Sands, and Matcha Gotcha
>Being an Ice type (just different type)
>Having Magma Armor as an ability
>Having Shield Dust because you can only be frozen by attacking moves
>Holding Covert Cloak for the same reason
>Harsh Sunlight is up
>That’s it for all the unique ways to prevent/cure freeze, berry and type immunity really just being the same too but with a different name
Another Ice thread, another bout of endless autism over a literal gimmick type that only exists because it was the secret "gotcha" to Lance's Dragon Types, who were otherwise resilient to all the most common attacking types aside from Normal and Psychic.
Things changed since gen 2 boomer.
My Tauros with STRONG DOUBLE EDGE no diffed him for me.
Ehm...
Tauros Double-Edge vs. Dragonite: 112-132 (29 - 34.2%) -- 2.4% chance to 3HKO
Why did you post a selfie?
>Remove Fairy type
>Make Ice immune to Dragon (it makes more sense anyways)
>Make Ice resist Water while having Scald be SE against Ice types
>Keep S/V's reduced Scald distribution while nerfing Scald to 70 base power to match Freeze Dry
>New ability distributed to many Ice types called Snow Pack. This ability makes it so that during Snow, the Pokemon with this ability gain a resistance to Ground, Flying, and Bug type attacks
>Frostbite added into the game. Ice type version of Will O Wisp is added into the game that has perfect accuracy if used by an Ice type or during Snow. Frozen still exists, but it only happens if a Pokemon that is Frostbitten gets Frostbitten again
There, I fixed the Ice type. Now Defensive Ice types have a niche, Ice becomes better offensively with the removal of Fairy and the addition of Frostbite, and now Ice types can have a signature status effect that isn't ass.
>There, I fixed the Ice type
all you did was make the game balance drastically worse
>Now Defensive Ice types have a niche
they don't need a niche, if you want to use a defensive pokemon use another type
>Ice becomes better offensively
you didn't make it better offensively because you added frostbite like a fricking moron which only benefits defensive pokemon
>and now Ice types can have a signature status effect that isn't ass
All you did was make their signature status effect worse.
>all you did was make the game balance drastically worse
No, that drastically improved the balance. QED
>they don't need a niche, if you want to use a defensive pokemon use another type
Over half of all the Ice types are slow and defensive.
>you didn't make it better offensively because you added frostbite like a fricking moron which only benefits defensive pokemon
Frostbite make Ice type SpA attackers more valuable since they can easily switch in on Frostbite. The removal of Fairy also greatly helps Ice types' viability since they would be one of the only 2 types in the game capable of hitting Dragon for SE. Their immunity to Dragon would also give them more ins so they can fire off their powerful attacks more than once or twice a game.
>All you did was make their signature status effect worse.
How? Frostbite is fantastic, and you can still cause Freeze by reapplying Frostbite.
>No, that drastically improved the balance
Yeah bro I love how you made Poison and Steel complete dogshit because you felt the need to remove Fairy for no reason.
>Over half of all the Ice types are slow and defensive.
[citation needed]
>Frostbite make Ice type SpA attackers more valuable since they can easily switch in on Frostbite
They can already easily switch in on Frostbite because Frostbite already doesn't exist. You're doing nothing solving a problem you invented.
> The removal of Fairy also greatly helps Ice types' viability since they would be one of the only 2 types in the game capable of hitting Dragon for SE
You think people use Fairy and Ice types to hit Dragons super effectively? The degree to which campaignshitters don't understand the game beyond staring at type match ups always fricking makes me laugh.
>Their immunity to Dragon would also give them more ins
They already have enough ins if you're actually good at the game and know how it works beyond "durff fire beat grass"
>How? Frostbite is fantastic
Ice is an offensive type. Adding a status condition that only benefits defensive Pokemon doesn't do jack shit.
>steel
>"complete dogshit"
please be jestin
>Yeah bro I love how you made Poison and Steel complete dogshit because you felt the need to remove Fairy for no reason.
Steel would still be incredibly strong, easily a top 3 type, if Fairy were removed. If it's not strong "enough", maybe give it back its Dark resistance and then give Dark back Pursuit to keep Ghost in check too.
As for Poison, it's still not good even with Fairy around. If you really want to buff its offensive power, make it SE against Water. Water could use the nerf and Poison could use the buff. It's pretty easy to justify, too, what with a relatively small amount of pollutants being able to completely BTFO entire aquatic ecosystems, not to mention the mercury poisoning going on in the oceans.
>They can already easily switch in on Frostbite because Frostbite already doesn't exist. You're doing nothing solving a problem you invented.
Yes, but Frostbite would be a check on other offensive types that wouldn't exist for Ice. Just like Fire type physical attackers get a huge bonus over non-Fire types because they're immune to Burn, Ice types would get a huge bonus of non-Ice types because they can't be Frostbitten.
>You think people use Fairy and Ice types to hit Dragons super effectively?
Iron Valiant is one of the strongest and most commonly used Pokemon in standard play. Fairy has been one of the top 3 dominant types in OU since its inception even despite there being so few (good) Fairy types.
As for Ice? It would be if not for Fairy type being better at the role of Dragon slaying.
>They already have enough ins if you're actually good at the game and know how it works beyond "durff fire beat grass"
You're insane if you think Ice types have ins currently. Even when Chien Pao and Baxcalibur were in OU, bringing them in was their only drawback. It's hard to bring in Ice types when they eat massive shit from hazards and don't have any resistances. If your Ice type isn't immediately threatening a KO upon entry, it's entirely useless.
>OU
I’m talking about the game, not fanfic garbage.
>That's simply not true
Why would you not consider a wincon when playing the game? Are you moronic?
>b-buh it’s not reliable
It doesn’t need to be reliable, moron.
Freezetard is a gambling addict that doesn’t understand probability or even how Freeze actually works.
And as a gambling addict, they hate the idea of foresight and gameplans. They love abilities like Snow Cloak or Moody (thinking its associated with Ice type too) and moves like Sheer Cold.
He’ll also post niche scenarios like being on your last Pokemon and about to die but only a Freeze can save you, without realizing that maybe better planning (nsmely crippling something with Frostbite) would prevent you from getting in those scenarios.
Oh and also additionally Freezetard will ignore the luck factors of Freeze by claiming Ice Beam is an OHKO move because it POTENTIALLY can freeze an opponent forever, but suddenly applies luck when talking about Paralysis which is strictly better in everyway besides the lower chance to skip opponent’s turn, because otherwise he has no other argument as to why Freeze should still exist.
People do use freeze as part of their foresight and game plans. You want to water it down and make a shitty burn clone because you’re bad at the game.
>People do use freeze as part of their foresight and game plans.
That's simply not true considering there is no reliable way to inflict it and it's only seen as a nice bonus. Just like people don't factor in Flamethrower's burn chance.
"Freezetard" is just yawngay
Huh? Where's the Water, Electric, and Dark resistance? They need that too.
A lot of people in this thread are Avalugg haters and that's not ok.
None of those would fix Ice type. Are you fricking moronic?
Why anti-smogonards always come up with the most competitive illiterate takes?
Ice have dogshit defensive power they will never survive long enough to consistently land a OHKO, Sheer Cold only got banned as collateral damage of the other two versions being the better OHKO move.
Snow cloak same, it only got banned as collateral of the sand version being the better one.
If those "fix" ice type then show me how those in-game make Ice types dominate ranked.
>None of those would fix Ice type
Evidently they would since Ice type is fine in the actual game.
>Ice have dogshit defensive power
What is Snow?
What is Snow Cloak?
What is Aurora Veil?
>Sheer Cold only got banned as collateral damage of the other two versions being the better OHKO move
Sheer Cold is literally the best OHKO move in the game because the fewest Pokemon are immune to it.
>If those "fix" ice type then show me how those in-game make Ice types dominate ranked.
Did you miss the regional with hundreds of players two months back where someone literally won the whole tournament with a Ninetales Articuno team? It wasn’t even a niche thing either, multiple people were running a similar setup.
>Evidently they would since Ice type is fine in the actual game.
It's not. its dogshit.
>What is Snow?
>What is Snow Cloak?
>What is Aurora Veil?
x1.5 def doesn't make up for being weak to everything. You're moron who would say Aggron is a good defensive mon because it has high defense.
Snow Cloak hardly ever kicks, which is why nobody uses it
Aurora Veil is shit because any steel type walls Ninetales and the other user is fricking abomasnow. Not even disproportionate good moves can save this type
>Sheer Cold is literally the best OHKO move in the game because the fewest Pokemon are immune to it.
Sheer Cold is dogshit because it's in dogshit defensively weak Pokemon, therefore it's the worst. The same reason Revival Blessing has no use because it's on useless Pokemon. Moves don't exist in a vacuum. Ting Lu is the only good proven OHKO move user.
>Did you miss the regional with hundreds of players two months back where someone literally won the whole tournament with a Ninetales Articuno team? It wasn’t even a niche thing either, multiple people were running a similar setup.
That's just in doubles and Articuno only did well because it was a obscure strat nobody was prepared for and it was largely thanks to the current generational gimmick which will be gone in a gen.
>It's not
It isn't.
>x1.5 def doesn't make up for being weak to everything
It actually does. Especially when it can be stacked with Aurora Veil.
>Aurora Veil is shit because any steel type walls Ninetales
Damn bro if only Ninetales had a move that allowed to instantly KO steel types anyway
>and the other user is fricking abomasnow
Yeah? What's wrong with Abomasnow?
>Sheer Cold is dogshit because it's in dogshit defensively weak Pokemon
That's weird. My Pokemon sure don't feel defensively weak when they resist every physical move.
>Ting Lu is the only good proven OHKO move user.
Then why is Articuno also a good proven OHKO move user?
>That's just in doubles
The actual game, yeah.
>and Articuno only did well because it was a obscure strat
It wasn't obscure.
>still at it
This moron would simp for every moronic decision GF made so he can get back at Smogon and anyone critical of type imbalances.
Even top VGCgays like wolfe have made videos on how much Ice type sucks, but I guess everyone else is wrong except for the one moron on Ganker who thinks Sheer Cold is a viable strategy lmao
That israelite can't even finish any of the easy games without savescumming until his """Sheer Cold""" garbage goes off. That's why he has to pretend his betters enjoy some """campaign""" because apparently even that shit is too hard for him.
>Even top VGCgays like wolfe have made videos on how much Ice type sucks
Wolfe is a content creator he has to pander to morons for a living
Wolfe is a good player but his videos are full of garbage takes. He thought Tinkaton would be good purely because of the “FAIRY/STEEL IS LE BEST TYPING IN THE GAME” meme campaignshitters like to spam.
But Tinkaton is good, it has insane support move pool and won a lot of top places in the early days of SV.
The only reason it fell off was because they added Chi-c**t, Black personpon heartflame and further buffed Incelroar as the most busted supporter that outclasses everything else..
>But Tinkaton is good,
yeah maybe in fanfic clown world where everything better than it is banned
>and won a lot of top places in the early days of SV
even in regulation A it was trash.
I don’t want to fuel the fire, but OHKO moves are sometimes viable in VGC and BSS and even Sheer Cold.
It’s either
A. Really bulky Pokemon that can afford fishing for OHKOs vs really bulky Pokemon (see Lapras and Ting-Lu)
B. Your movepool/coverage options are so lacking that you might as well run it as a last ditch effort to break past a wall. (See Ninetales-A running it sometimes)
But yes generally speaking OHKO moves suck.
Kind of crazy how Yawngay still justifies Ice being so shit when Ground and Rock exist.
>Muh Snow!
Sand has been raising Rock’s SpD since Gen 4, by the same x1.5 amount (Yawngay doesn’t even know how either works and thinks its x2)
>Muh Snow Cloak Gambling!
Sand Veil exists, is on tons of Ground types as well as various other Pokemon.
>Muh Sheer Cold gambling!
The best user of an OHKO in the game is Ting-Lu, a Ground type using Fissure. Ting-Lu actually has the bulk and typing to use Fissure effectively, which matters way more than immunities.
>but muh webm of Ninetales vs Toxapex!
Ninetales uses it at a niche option because its movepool is so barren and can at best try to Hypnosis it. Plus Ting-Lu sees tons more results.
>Muh Freeze gambling!
Would you rather just deal 75% to Toxapex with Earthquake or deal 25% and hope you freeze, they don’t thaw out immediately or dozens of other factors that would prevent/cure freeze? Like lmao just kill them. Speaking of
>Muh glass cannon type!
Ground is better than Ice offensively. Literally just kill the Steel and Fire types with Earthquake lol lmao. Like what they gonna do? Throw plant at you? Some bugs? Whoops just squished that bug and birds with the common as Rock coverage and common ass Fire coverage. Like homie just spam Earthquake.
>b-buh ground
ground has an entire type that’s immune to it
ground has an entire ability that’s immune to it
ground doesn’t have weather support that gives it massive free defense buffs
ground doesn’t have a status condition that instantly incapacitates opponents
ground has incredibly limited special move coverage therefore it easily gets fricked by burn and intimidate and limits your offensive options
>b-buh rock
rock doesn’t have a 1HKO move
rock doesn’t have a status condition that instantly incapacitates opponents
rock moves almost universally have less reliable accuracy
rock doesn’t have a move that’s SE against 5 different types
rock has incredibly limited special move coverage therefore it easily gets fricked by burn and intimidate and limits your offensive options
See no counter arguments. Has to copepost because Earthquake and Stone Edge are just too good.
Yeah, Earthquake is great! I love damaging my own teammates and getting utterly fricked the second someone sends out Rillaboom!
Yeah Ice is great! I love doing no damage to Water, Fire, and Steel types while being as fragile as a wet paper towel, dying instant to Rock Slides, Heat Wave, MIR, etc.
>he doesn’t know freeze dry exists
>he doesn’t know sheer cold exists
>he doesn’t know aurora veil exists
this is the type of person who tries to suggest balance changes btw
>He doesn’t know you can use ground immune Pokemon as your ally
>He doesn’t know what Gravity is
>He doesn’t know what High Horsepower is
>He doesn’t know Screens increase the bulk of every Pokemon your side
it’s always funny when campaignshitters think you’re always going to conveniently have a non grounded ally because their only knowledge of doubles is the babby campaign that requires zero strategy beyond mashing A at NPCs
>Bro Ice is so good because of Sheer Cold can OHKO Steel and Fire Types!
204+ Atk Choice Band Landorus-Therian Stomping Tantrum vs. 228 HP / 84 Def Heatran: 388-460 (198.9 - 235.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Literally like lmao who needs Sheer Cold for Steel and Fire types when you can just use regular high accuracy moves?
cool now show how much stomping tantrum does against a flying type or anything with levitate
well its a good fricking thing pokemon can use more then one type of move then
>the campaignshitter doesn’t even know what choice band does now
OH NO NO NO AHAHAHAHA
well its a good fricking thing pokemon can use more then one type of move then
>not SE against water
already failed
Tbh this is a bit too much. I think changing only resistances should be enought, the Ice type is pretty good offesively as it is now.
Trade its Ice resistance for a water resistance and give it a Ground or Dragon resistance should be enough.
Also Freeze into Frostbite.
Threads like these are why I have Ice in my filter now.