The lack of a UNATCO path in this game is an honestly bizarre oversight.
Having the NSF defection be forced on you could have been handled way better.
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The lack of a UNATCO path in this game is an honestly bizarre oversight.
No, it's not. It's completely normal for a game to not allow you to align with the villain. Almost all games don't allow it. Even RPG games that are ostensibly about player choice pretty much never let you side with the villain. At best they sometimes let you kill the villain and then take over and Deus Ex does kind of allow that with Helios ending so frick off, you fricking moron.
>game lets you side with the villian and betray the heroes
Is there even a game like that? Sounds based.
A Bard's Tale. Not only do you side with the villain but become her lover.
But that's a comedy game so it's doing it deliberately as a joke.
Oh, and how could I forget Dark Messiah. Although does it count when you start as the villain and it's just a choice about whether or not you flip sides to the good guys?
in Singularity you can side with the dictator or even take all the power for yourself at the end
Lands of Lore 2 lets you betray the heroes, but you usurp the evil god and become one yourself rather than joining him
>The lack of a UNATCO path in this game is an honestly bizarre oversight.
What?
UNATCO was a shell operation for the big names in the world, it was on it's last leg anyways as every organization was basically "at that point" where UNATCO would be more a thing in the way rather than a tool. The UNATCO route would literally be JC just taking a rocket to the face.
It would have been pretty neat, I think one of my earliest playthroughs was full bootlicker mode and I really hated having to side with the rebel scum.
JC was an advanced useful idiot who would have been transferred to some other org when the time came as long as he towed the line. It would have been neat helping out Bob Page, and then yoinking the cord in the last second to give all the power to yourself.
This was literally the plan, but apparently the devs ran out of time, resources.
My problem isn’t so much that the defection is forced, as it is that it’s forced in a half assed way. It relies on the assumption that the player has been fully convinced by the NSF’s claims. Especially weird since after the defection occurs you can side with the Illuminati or Helios if you so choose.
This wouldn’t have been bad. I totally get that 2 completely different storylines would have been unreasonable, but they could have written around it in a smarter way.
>My problem isn’t so much that the defection is forced, as it is that it’s forced in a half assed way. It relies on the assumption that the player has been fully convinced by the NSF’s claims. Especially weird since after the defection occurs you can side with the Illuminati or Helios if you so choose.
Canonically the entirety of Deus Ex happens within something like a single 24 hour period, so maybe JC was just really sleepy and lacking good judgment by the end
I thought the game takes place over the course of at least a week? Time must have passed during JC being imprisoned by MJ12. Not to mention that he could sleep while travelling to other countries.
>Time must have passed during JC being imprisoned by MJ12.
His killswitch was 24 hours with the design of gradually degrading him; the symptoms have barely started by the time you get to Tong to stop it.
>smallest worst levels ever
>terrible performance just to be early with the dynamic lighting gimmick
>universal ammo
>dumbest AI ever
>"dude what if like all religions were just lies, brooooo"
>"dude what if the Knight's Templars were the Klan but for augs/mutants"
The only good part of the game were the Omar, and that's only because they canonically were irrelevant to the rest of the story
>plot sucks but its ok because protagonist was just tired
sure
The game takes place over like a week
When you get to Hong Kong they say there are only 12 hours left on the killswitch, so the flight from NYC to Hong Kong alone took 12 hours even with Jock's fancy helicopter
I suppose the kill switch is one justified reason for the forced defection. JC wasn’t made aware of the kill switch being a thing until after Lebedev and even if you kill Lebedev like you’re told, the mention of the kill switch still catches JC off-guard.
Ok maybe more like 72 hours then.
>8 hours dicking around NYC
>12 hours from killswitch activation through most of Hong Kong
>4 hours for the rest
>14 hours flying back to NYC, scuttling the superfreighter, meeting with Dowd
>16 hours flying to and exploring Paris
>16 hours flying to LA, Vandenberg, Ocean Lab, gas station
>2 hours nuke/Area 51
>the flight from NYC to Hong Kong alone took 12 hours even with Jock's fancy helicopter
That's pretty ridiculous even for a fancy future helicopter. A normal flight from New York to hong kong on a normal passenger plane is about 16 hours. The fastest helicopter in the world is only about half as fast as a typical passenger plane. I know Deus Ex is futuristic, but I always found that ridiculous.
Maybe it's a hybrid that can fold its rotor and go jet-mode; it has wings after all
I don't think the idea was "J.C. joins or is fully convinced by the NSF" so much as it is "J.C smells how fishy UNATCO is and wants to find out the truth for himself, which he can't do from inside UNATCO"
The NSF itself you don't even really join; instead you head around the world collaborating with various groups that are affiliated with the NSF but who have their own agendas
no it already has the best story of any western game
shut up weeb
Not bizarre considering they already delayed the game a year past its initial release date. But here's how they could have done it relatively cheaply:
>immediately reject Paul's offer before the raid, he escapes with Jock, you fly to HQ, skipping the prison section
>fly to HK helipad via some other pilot, MJ12's are now friendly
>talk to the Triads, pit one against the other, oust/kill Tracer Tong
>meet Maggie Chow in her apartment, she gets a little flirty just before Jock snipes her from his nearby apartment
>discover Alex and Jaime had betrayed the organization, escaping with some unknown kind of help
>track down, interrogate, and capture Dowd in NYC, gaining some new info from his compound (superfreighter mission is skipped and replaced with an exploration mission in the surrounding church area)
>fly to Paris, clearing the catacombs in reverse, killing Chad and Nicolette together
>get chateau access from her body, explore it together with Gunther, finally start to break the ice and become buddies
>tower section is skipped but because you're with MJ12 the streets are now larger and more hub-like, and finding Morgan Everett is your main goal
>you and Gunther happen upon Jaime who is in a different area from before
>"Laputan machine"
>finally get to Everett's place, have him and DeBeers turned over to the troops
>fly to Vandenberg, where you first learn of Daedalus
>Alex with the help of others have substantially upgraded security, meaning you have to take on a giant robot fleet from the ground level
>kill everyone inside, Helios merge proceeds, hologram scene includes a now-recovered Paul announcing that he has rerouted a nuke to Area 51
>Simons is still in the Ocean Lab, you have to confront Paul yourself
>Tong and Illuminati endings no longer available, but you can 1) kill Paul and support Page, 2) kill Page last-minute and ask for Paul's forgiveness, stating that you were only following orders, or 3) kill both and merge with Helios yourself
They could even flip the perspective of the plot a bit. Bob Page would tell you the Illuminati are the reason the world is fricked and he's the good guy trying to fix things.
Yeah the biggest shortcoming is that they went all in on Page being the cartoonish supervillain, even though he's Helios' creator and shows strong hints that he at least does believe in a utopian, more-efficient world.
I think it makes sense. Billionaire businessman starts out with philanthropic intentions, but then eventually goes mad with power. You see it with the likes of Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates and Elon Musk.
Nah he was obviously power-hungry from the beginning since he started with the Illuminati at a young age. It's just that he doesn't get his dues. Of the three endings, Helios is by far the closest to a true Page ending; it's just Page without Page.
I once heard someone say that the plot of The Division is pretty much Deus Ex but you don't leave Unatco. I haven't played it myself but that sounds neat.
what an awful comparison they made
That does sound neat
but where do you get the time and money to put a game changing route to the game
>forced to kill Anna instead of breeding her
Why even live bros
why did these morons let terrorists occupy an entire island where their HQ is at
>governments
>competent
Choose one and only one. Also, my headcanon is Paul probably pulled some strings.
>why did Congress let terrorists occupy an entire building where their HQ is at
It's based off governors island, right next to the statue of liberty island with a ton of US facilities there
They let them
Was it THAT bad?
It was painfully bland, I remember dropping it because I thought I was only 1/3rd the way through but was actually close to the end. I still to this day don't really recall anything about it other than wondering why my ammo for one weapon was used for all weapons
It has a much better written story than the first game, or at least a more sensible story, but the gameplay is so much worse.
I used to think the portrayal of the templars was a ridiculous strawman that only a smug atheist could write but then I grew up and discovered if they had made them muslims instead of christians it wouldn't have been that far from the truth.
>It has a much better written story than the first game
>all 3 endings are somehow canon
Nah you're full of shit
Did you even play the game? The "all 3 endings are canon" thing does actually make sense in IW. It's not like's a dragonbreak or something.
It doesn't make sense at all. Stop forcing your dumb meme.
>at least a more sensible story
it felt like ramblings of a 13 year old who thought atheism was cool
It makes more sense purely by virtue of the fact there's no saturday morning cartoon villains just cackling maniacally at how much they love just being evil.
>DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD WHAT IF LIKE WHAT IF HERE ME OUT WHAT IF LIKE DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD WHAT IF LIKE ALL THAT LOVE AND TOLERANCE SHIT YEAH THAT? WAS LIKE ACTUALLY CONTROLLING US!
>AND LIKE DOOOOD WHAT IF LIKE WHAT IF HEAR ME OUT LIKE WE ALL BECAME BORG TO OVER COME THAT LIKE EPIC SHIT MAN FRICKING EPIC
>YEAH MY MOM WONT MAKE ME WAKE UP FOR CHURCH ON SUNDAYS XD!!!!!!!!!
The story just straight up fricking sucks
>>AND LIKE DOOOOD WHAT IF LIKE WHAT IF HEAR ME OUT LIKE WE ALL BECAME BORG TO OVER COME THAT LIKE EPIC SHIT MAN FRICKING EPIC
It's funny you think that was ridiculous given the day's political climate. The troony movement is basically a transhumanism movement same as the omar was.
If you actually understand IW, really understand it and not just spout moron memes, it was a hell of a lot more prescient than the first game was.
Bob Page doesn't quite do that; the intro is arguably a "have to break a couple of eggs" kind of speech
I think he's a bit low T. Pudgy soft looking guy. Ironic that when Spector was in charge they had references to the Rothschilds, globalists, a positive spin on right-wing militias and the Second Amendment, etc.
>I think he's a bit low T
new to gaming? most game developers are effete
True, but Smith is one of those devs who just parrots the popular “rebellious” narrative of the time rather than actually having convictions of his own. Atheism was huge in the early 2000s afterall.
This isn’t to say that the OG Deus Ex was trying to make a definitive statement though. It was a compilation of various well known conspiracy theories, and it just presented these theories as is and asked players to draw their own conclusions.
Who exactly other than the french are that bad of "villians"? Wasn't page's whole idea that he might have to kill some people in order to drag humanity forward?
>Wasn't page's whole idea that he might have to kill some people in order to drag humanity forward?
That isn't evil?
Name a single successful government that didn't have to kill some people
Canada for one.
Is that what they teach you there?
It's not exactly clear how many died by the Grey Death, but it's probably substantially fewer than those killed under the various Illuminati-fostered wars of the 19th and 20th centuries.
>killing droves of people to force evolution unnaturally is "successful"
Guy was just a maniac.
>Wasn't page's whole idea that he might have to kill some people in order to drag humanity forward?
Bob Page was a megalomaniac that wanted to become an immortal god and nothing more. He did not give a shit about humanity beyond wanting to rule it.
>It has a much better written story than the first game, or at least a more sensible story
hahahahahahhahahahahahaha
>I used to think the portrayal of the templars was a ridiculous strawman that only a smug atheist could write
You were correct. Harvey Smith was a total fedora tipper at the time, and stated that one of the core ideas of Deus Ex 2 was that Christianity controlled the world via banking, politics, etc, and so he wrote the game to reflect that.
>Harvey Smith ruins IW with fedora-tier atheism
>Harvey Smith ruins Dishonored 2 because he drank the woke kool aid and inserted random “progressive” elements
Is Harvey Smith just one of those people who goes along with whatever ideology is trendy at a given moment?
>Christianity controlled the world via banking, politics, etc, and so he wrote the game to reflect that
That doesn't make any sense. The templars are an underdog group not in charge of anything. They're gaining power via populism with the people, not backroom machinations. They basically represent anti-intellectualism.
Here's his retcon per the (apocryphal and should-be-burned Deus Ex Bible)
>priory of zion
Sounds more like he's talking about the israelites without saying the J word. He saying israelites control Christianity.
Nope, it's a reference to a deboonked gay conspiracy
The Priory of Sion is like the opposite of a Christian conspiracy. It says the Christians are all rubes being taken advantage of.
Which is why DX2 has a dumb fedora story
>hurrr durrrr these dumb Christians and Muslims will believe anything, if some tattooed Paris bawd puts on a robe and calls herself Her Holliness, they'll all convert in an instant
You're confusing The Order with The Templars. Yeah, The Order is all about manipulating people through essentially a fabricated religion. The Templars are the people who, without even knowing it, realized that's what is going on.
I'm not confusing anything. I'm saying the argument justifying The Order existing in the game is one which says Christianity (and therefore Christians) are all just sheeple following an organized religion. Obviously the Templar are moronic in DX2 as well, for different reasons.
Could've been worse.
What are some good quality of life mods for Deus Ex, I want to replay it but I remember having to go through and remap shit and some parts feeling clunky.
It's a great idea, and I'm pretty sure I've heard that originally there was supposed to be a UNATCO path, but it's pretty obvious why there isn't one. It simply wasn't feasible to include that since the branch point to go down a UNATCO path would have had to happen fairly early into the game (before you go to Hong Kong). They would have had to create almost double the game to include that, and players who go that path would essentially "miss" the whole other game that lies down the other branch path, and vice versa.
When i first played i thought that you can reinstate life support illuminaty dude.
>The lack of a UNATCO path in this game is an honestly bizarre oversight.
It's not an oversight, it was just a matter of time and budget. I believe they mentioned somewhere in the Deus Ex Bible or some interview that it was planned but had to be cut . In fact, I believe you can still find hints of the first stages of this path's development the last time JC is NYC, where Paul tells you to do some shit and that you can find some evidence on Simons in that compound. If you find the evidence and not do the objective and instead go back to talk to Paul, you get picrel.
There's so many of these little hints of cut choice/story paths left in the game (like getting to Jock outside of the metro station when you're supposed to caught or something along those lines) that it really leaves you hungry for more.
I agree though, as someone that adores conspiracy theories of the time I always thought a UNATCO-focused path and basically enforcing the over the top 90s New World Order and working alongside Page and FEMA/Simmons would've been an absolute blast and it's something that I'll always wish could've been fully developed and polished.
If you really wanna scratch the itch, there's a mod called Deus Ex Nihilium set in a prequel-style Hong Kong where you're working with UNATCO, and I'm told you can stay working with UNATCO through it, but I'm part of the way through it and it already seems like I'm just being arbitrarily steered away from UNATCO to the Illuminati with 0 reason to beforehand, so I don't have too high hopes on it. It's a cool mod nonetheless, though.
With AI voices and someone dedicated enough to do it, it might be possible again. But it does rely on skilled modders.
I thought they wanted to do that but over all the game would have been to unwieldy for the time it was made.
There are no routes in DX this isn't New Vegas, siding with the glowies goes against the entire point of DX.
>b-but illuminati ending
They were fighting against the glowies with their own glowies not the same
>TFW no remaster with cut content EVER
end me