But Lavos is shown to not be a generic monster. That said, I also dislike this trope. But not as much as "the villain is evil because he's just crazy."
>But not as much as "the villain is evil because he's just crazy."
I used to hate this but I've come full circle. I'm tired of every villain needing a plethora of reasons to justify their actions. Now I'm starting to like simplistic reasons or even just being evil because they are. Charisma matters way more to me at this point.
The problem is, a lot of the time the "villain is evil just because they're crazy" has the developers try to give them a huge cerebral reasoning (usually in momologue form) and a sappy traumatic past to justify it. So they're not just crazy. They are not that different from the other villains.
>Now I'm starting to like simplistic reasons or even just being evil because they are
Same.
I'll take a simple villain over one with a badly written sob story. The most effective villain is someone you love to hate.
Lavos was the antagonist. he was made to absorb the earth. but the true villains were everyone in the other time lines that were exploiting it's power to further there own ends.
Evil or not, Lavos must be dealt with, if you wish to live. No one objects to the morals of prey fighting back at its predator, or the destroyer of its habitat. Some forces in the universe are simply diametrically opposed
>Parasitic alien entity that arrived on the planet and for millions of years guided the evolution of the planet's lifeforms in order to feed on them and then destroy everything once it reaches maturity, creating spawns of itself to send to other planets and continue the cycle
>guided the evolution
mistranslation
the arrival of lavos sparked evolution due to awakening magic in apes, but played no role in "guiding" evolution
the english translation, as always, is fanfiction
Oh I see. I barely remember anything of this game. Lavos was basically inspired by the asteroid that killed real dinosaurs (doh).
9 months ago
Anonymous
This little homie and his friends.
9 months ago
Anonymous
AZALA SHOULD HAVE BEEN A CHARACTER
SHE SHOULD HAVE JUMPED ON WITH YOU AND ESCAPED
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>erase princess’s birth >timeline still remembers her / the game continues as it was
Because you save her. Chrono Trigger has plenty of silly things. But you're just making one up now.
You don’t understand how causality works lmfao
9 months ago
Anonymous
Azala is a she?
9 months ago
Anonymous
Yes. She’s an example of a pre-human magic user too, as Cross later put emphasis on. Magic predates humans and reptiles are the rightful users of it. Lavos just gave humans unnatural access to it.
9 months ago
Anonymous
Back to the future is even more inconsistent about it's time travel shenanigans. It's not a very good example.
I used Back to the Future as an example for a reason. That Chrono Trigger isn't trying to be grounded or meticulous with the time travel mechanics. You save Marle and then they just act like the event was reversed. If you really wanted to get technical, Marle (and everyone else) going back in time just by itself would cause endless paradoxes. Let alone her dying creating a grandfather paradox that couldn't be reversed. But both BttF and CT don't care about these.
Trying to sound smart for going "umm....atchuallay" for pointing these things out doesn't make you cool. It just makes you sound like Neil Degrasse Tyson.
9 months ago
Anonymous
I’m saying the time travel logic in Chrono Trigger is about as sensible (nonsensical) as Back to the Future.
Erasing someone’s existence means they never existed period. But the game pretends she just went poot. “Aaaiiieeee, I’m disappearing, heeelp meeeeee”.
It. Is. moronic. Saying it’s not moronic is cope. Pretending this game is serious about itself is pure cope.
The problem is people treat the game as some super serious masterpiece, when it’s just a masterpiece of a silly narrative.
9 months ago
Anonymous
>I’m saying the time travel logic in Chrono Trigger is about as sensible (nonsensical) as Back to the Future.
So you're repeating what I just said... >Pretending this game is serious about itself is pure cope.
I literally said the opposite. Serious question. Can you even read? Or are you just so mad you're rushing to respond without reading the posts?
9 months ago
Anonymous
You’re mixing me up with a different poster. I’m not accusing you of being a pretentious “n-no it makes total sense” lunatic.
You don’t need to be Neil Black Man Tyson to understand that time is one dimensional.
Well technically the reptilians getting wiped out was an accident on his part. Not that it really mattered to him if it was reptilians or humans or something else, he just needed some form of sustenance.
Lavos just doesn’t know any better. It’s a transcendent lifeform. Innocent in a way.
Also for some reason it liked Queen Zeal. I have no idea why. It literally obliged when she asked it to do something, and lets her stand on its shoulder.
He doesn't like her. He controls her mind via mammon machine.
This. Lavos is corrupting, and he's very deliberate about it.
If that were true, Lavos would have discarded her and found more abled persons to work on the Omen. Zeal was a figurehead. She is no magi-engineer. But she stayed around regardless. She exalted in her immortality. Meanwhile Lavos nukes everybody else and keeps her as a pet. Why?
>Although why not her children?
He did end up using them. The big main plot point of Chrono Cross is how Lavos merged with Schala. What he didn't realize is Schala would overtake his consciousness. So it backfired on Lavos.
When it came to Magus, he didn't really "use" him so much as Magus tried to use him. And got stomped as a result.
Magus had more potential than his sister, though. The Zeal family were the mightiest magic-users aside from the three Gurus. It would make more sense to corrupt a Guru.
Schala never really overtook his consciousness so much as merging with her caused Lavos to recontextualize his defeat/actually add context to it, which made him so seethingly mad he tried to end the entire multiverse out of one grand final desire to avenge his own death out of spite.
Lavos is a sentient being and does know what's going on. He actively intervenes at some points. Him taking control of Queen Zeal is an example of this. And most of Chrono Cross' story is a similar example.
Guy who's played Chrono Cross 10 times in order to figure out its story here. Time Devourer is something different. It's a basically a cosmic entity with the split personality of Schala's Love and Schala's Hate. On a thematic level, it's supposed to represent the contradicting nature of life trying to live in harmony while simultaneously needing to devour and kill to survive.
Lavos is just acting its natural life circle....but that circle involves the destruction of other living things so these living things can fight against lavos to keep their lives, that's is how nature intended it. Now, the dreams eater, now that guy is completely sentient and evil.
Thinking Marle is the weakest character and Haste being useless is the ultimate midwit take advocated only by people who didn't even beat the game with just two characters.
The short version: >Haste/Marle bad because of two haste helms. >Haste isn't even necessarily doubling your combat power, because of speed capping
What's the fallacy? Thinking that two hasted characters are better than three hasted characters. It doesn't make sense on a glance and it doesn't make sense when thinking deeper about it. Even if you assume that haste just adds roughly 50% combat power and Marle is somewhat weaker than ALL other characters as a baseline (a bold assumption already), she's still better after being hasted. And this isn't even taking into account the advantages of a free helmet slot
It's also stupid because you can beat the game with any team combo. Hell, you can beat it with just Chrono and Ayla. Whatever third member you add is just a space filler. So I always pick Chrono, Ayla and Marle. Marle giving everyone haste and clearing status effects.
Marle is good because she can double steal with Ayla to get some really high level equipment. She has a lot of good double techs and triple techs in general. I'd much rather have her than Magus in my party just because he has no other techs without using an accessory slot for a few gimmcky triple techs.
Lavos is both intelligent and manipulative, and its goal is to grow humans into a species worthy of harvesting as part of its life cycle.
Lavos is just humans as humans might be viewed by chickens.
Still was kind of petty of him to start nuking everything when he emerged though. Just bursting through, shedding some larva, then taking off without purposely flipping the proverbial middle finger at the planet you gobbled up from the inside for millions of years would make him seem less 'evil'.
If you think about it evolutionary wise , that's just part of the process of making a safer environment for its offspring, kind of like building a nest.
He wasn't a monster, he was a planet eating parasite, it wasn't a fight for good vs evil, it was a battle for survival of the fittest, did you even play the game moron?
>ANCIENT ALIEN PARASITE LANDED ON EARTH AND ITS UP TO YOU TO FINALLY STOP HIM BECAUSE NOBODY ELSE WILL with environmentalist undertones
all fricking JPRGs in the mid 90s used this plot
It's stupid as frick looking back at ff7, CT, xenogears and those are just the most popular examples
>all fricking JPRGs in the mid 90s used this plot
What? The most overused plot at that time was "nihilistic bad guy wants to become a demi god to control the world." Not an alien parasite.
>erase princess’s birth >timeline still remembers her / the game continues as it was
Because you save her. Chrono Trigger has plenty of silly things. But you're just making one up now.
If she never existed, then you’d have no memories of her existence, moron.
But yes, the world is a giant troll, since you have to assume everything that happens was already meant to happen, due to le will of le planet. But that comes across as artificial and enforced. I guess the planet was never actually in danger—WHICH IS CONFIRMED IN CHRONO CROSS WHEN YOU LEARN THERE ARE ENTIRE TIMELINES WHERE LAVOS NEVER HAPPENED LOOOL (the planet literally shoved magitech futuristic reptoids into the same timeline as the magitech futuristic humans (Balthazar) lmfao, and the humans later repurposed reptoid tech into their own magic system)
>But yes, the world is a giant troll, since you have to assume everything that happens was already meant to happen, due to le will of le planet.
This is actually a plot point in the game. That there's some "entity" that's guiding them. But it's left ambiguous to what it is. Probably not the planet but just a fourth wall nod to the player.
"The Player" sure as hell didn't open up a red portal for Lucca to unfrick her mom.
There's something above them playing fast and loose with time, and the fact it's left ambiguous is the smartest thing to do.
I always felt that was the Earth itself. If not then some other god type entity. Definitely never thought it was supposed to be "the player." I took the scene as almost a "thank you" to the heroes from the Earth after you helped turn a wasteland dessert into a thriving forest.
>Both him and Marle died horrible deaths during Dalton's conquest of Guardia.
Which gets reversed after Serge fixes the dimensional rift. It's amazing how few people understand the most basic parts of the story. It would be like if you watched all of Back to the Future and still think Biff won in the end. Because you only focused on the middle of movie 2.
No he doesn't. The timeline gets reset back several years after Guardia has already. Saving the 1000 AD gang was supposed a major plot point in Chrono Break, which never happened.
>Back to the future is even more inconsistent
No time travel movie is perfect but their concept of the "ripple effect" keeps most of the problems in check. Or at least, gives the protagonists time to get to a point where they can save the day.
The real problem with CC's ending is its so damn ambiguous and even misleading. Basically the ending lectures the player on being more nature friendly, then Schala says somethings like the dimensions are fixed, but they don't really show what that means in terms of how the divergent timelines were mended. Schala also mentions that Serge won't remember anything, but when he's back on the beech he asks Leena questions. And it shows Kid in a white dress for a second on the beach, but then she's chasing (You) through modern day Tokyo. Part of it might have been leaving it open for a third game to answer, but as a standalone ending CC is garbage. Doesn't help that the Millennium Fair parade ending for CT is pure comfy kino where most things got wrapped up nicely
>No he's not. Both him and Marle died horrible deaths during Dalton's conquest of Guardia.
Part of me wants to play CC just to see how bad it is, but part of me just wants to never touch it. What it does to the story of CT sounds awful.
The plot of Chrono Cross is literally about them reversing those events. Play it for yourself and see. Don't take some idiot on Ganker's word for it. Especially since all he did was read a wiki page.
There's definite problems with Chrono Cross. But more with the pacing and delivery. The plot itself is there. Just most people don't get to Chronopolis where it's all explained. And even if you do get there, you have to actually interact with all the ghosts and computer terminals and read it. Rather than just running through it.
>The plot of Chrono Cross is literally about them reversing those events.
You don't reserve those events. Those events happened in 1005 AD. The timeline gets reset back to 1010 AD, where the dimensions split. >Especially since all he did was read a wiki page.
You're pulling out all the stops today, buddy. First the "you speed read" argument, now the "you didn't play the game" argument. Please try harder.
>The timeline gets reset back to 1010 AD, where the dimensions split.
The timeline being reset, meaning Lavos is blocked from escaping to another dimension, means that stuff long before the dimension split also get reset. Admittetly, we're not given a checklist of literally everything. It's left very ambiguous by an End of Eva style ending scene, complete with Schala/Kid being in the modern day wearing a school uniform (uh...what you doin' Kato?) But one thing that is confirmed by Chrono, Marle and Lucca on the coast is that their actions end up changing the events in history. Where they had previously blamed Serge for changing history at Leene's bell, they say on Opassa Beach that his actions have reversed this.
As I've said since the start of this thread, Chrono Cross doesn't explain things well. Lots of exposition dumps and purposefully cerebral symbolism, as was big with Square games at the time. But it is in the game that Serge reversed the events that led to the "bad end" timeline you see. >First the "you speed read" argument, now the "you didn't play the game" argument. Please try harder.
I didn't accuse you of speed reading. If someone else in this thread is calling you out on something, then that means there's at least two people disagreeing with you.
9 months ago
Anonymous
>Where they had previously blamed Serge for changing history at Leene's bell, they say on Opassa Beach that his actions have reversed this.
Again, they're talking about Serge's meeting with Schala and him getting drowned and splitting dimensions, both of which happened after Guardia already fell. When they discuss the past, they're trying to contextualize the entire Chrono continuity - not say that Serge changed history. I've checked this in Ultimania as well. Nothing is mentioned about Serge changing that part of the past - only that infinite multiple dimensions exists and they might be alive in some of them (which reads like such cope, to be honest).
9 months ago
Anonymous
The entire thing of Chrono, Marle and Lucca ghosts showing up and "blaming" Serge for an event he had no control over is itself dumb. And leads to a lot of the ambiguity people have with the whole plot. Either this is a really bad translation by the localization team (wouldn't put it past Richard "frick everything up just to I can acknowledge my own existence" Honeywood) or Kato was trying to go extra cerebral with the writing.
But by the same token, this is why it's dumb people blame Chrono Cross for retroactively ruining Chrono Trigger. The events in Chrono Trigger itself already created a bunch of plot holes that could lead to far worse things than Dalton taking over Guardia. And that's exactly what the plot of Chrono Cross focuses on. Fixing those various plot holes. It's hard for me to believe that the whole point of Chrono Cross is to fix these plot holes...but then they just overlook one big one. And also that Lucca and others would just sit by letting it happen. Oh sure, Lucca and Balthier would just sit there in her orphanage researching the Time Egg while Chrono and Marle and the whole country is being taken over...right. Only way this works is if Lucca was making the Time Egg thinking it would fix Guardia being taken over. But in the game, the letters we get say it's specifically for helping Kid and Schala.
On top of this, if the events with Dalton and Guardia are canon, it doesn't make sense in other ways. It conflicts with events in Chrono Cross. Like the aforementioned Lucca's orphanage, Lynx and generally the entire Porre Military involvement on both the continent and archipelago.
9 months ago
Anonymous
>The events in Chrono Trigger itself already created a bunch of plot holes that could lead to far worse things than Dalton taking over Guardia.
Chrono Trigger was meant to be a simple, standalone story that didn't encourage the audience to dig into the nitty gritty details of its time travel mechanics and the possible plot holes they introduced. Nobody asked Kato to fill in those gaps. They were never meant to be filled.
>It conflicts with events in Chrono Cross. Like the aforementioned Lucca's orphanage, Lynx and generally the entire Porre Military involvement on both the continent and archipelago.
Not really. If you examine some of the stuff around the burning orphanage, it's heavily implied that Lucca developed weapons and tech for Porre to pay the bills and take care of the numerous war orphans they created. It's also heavily implied that her parents were killed in the war. The entire section just feels like an edgy middle finger to the 1000 AD cast.
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I guess I'll still keep it on the list. I'm on a retro kick and playing through some of Square's Golden Era games. I'm almost done with my CT playthrough and I'm going through all of CT's endings. I've got FF7, Secret of Mana, and Vagrant Story on my list as well.
Secret of Mana and Vagrant Story both play like shit, to be honest.
9 months ago
Anonymous
>implied
That's the key word there. We don't know. And the idea that Lucca would just submit to Porre and start making weapons for them is even less plausible to me than the idea that Serge's actions reversed Porre's invasion.
But nothing about the entire plot line makes sense. How Dalton got to 1000 AD, how Chrono and Marle would somehow die, how Lucca wouldn't have died, etc. Literally nothing about it works. It's almost like it was just an afterthought by some second string writer working on the PS1 port. Much like all the crappy extra content on the DS port. And later Kato had to make all these ideas work somehow.
Suikoden 1 isn't very good. 2 and 3 are much better entries.
>The plot of Chrono Cross is literally about them reversing those events.
You don't reserve those events. Those events happened in 1005 AD. The timeline gets reset back to 1010 AD, where the dimensions split. >Especially since all he did was read a wiki page.
You're pulling out all the stops today, buddy. First the "you speed read" argument, now the "you didn't play the game" argument. Please try harder.
It's clear that Horii and Sakaguchi tard wrangled the frick out of Masato Kato during Trigger's development, cause boy did his attempts at subverting what Trigger built up completely fall on its ass. There's a reason why Trigger is a beloved classic in the entire retro gaming community while Cross is more of a niche hardcore JRPG title.
CT's prot would be better if it was told better. But it's told in the most moronic way possible. You won't know what the frick is going on for about 30% of the game. Then a big event happens that explains some things. But also adds greater complexity. So then you will have new things to be uncertain about for about 85% of the game. And then you get a huge info dump(and I mean HUGE) that explains it all. Except it's so convoluted, that you won't understand the explanation. So then you go to a website that tries to explain it in plain detail, but by this point you're frustrated and don't care anymore, and you're not retaining information.
Don't bother playing it. It's not worth it. The actual gameplay is just kind of meh. A little slow, like all PS1 JRPGs, thanks to battle transitions and loading.
I guess I'll still keep it on the list. I'm on a retro kick and playing through some of Square's Golden Era games. I'm almost done with my CT playthrough and I'm going through all of CT's endings. I've got FF7, Secret of Mana, and Vagrant Story on my list as well.
My suggestion is to go into Chrono Cross expecting a world building game you can get lost in. The fun comes from exploring every little thing on the map and collecting skills/characters. Not focusing on the main plot. Still, Suikoden I-III did all that and the main plot better. So play those sometime.
9 months ago
Anonymous
Suikoden 1 isn't very good. 2 and 3 are much better entries.
It's clear that Horii and Sakaguchi tard wrangled the frick out of Masato Kato during Trigger's development, cause boy did his attempts at subverting what Trigger built up completely fall on its ass. There's a reason why Trigger is a beloved classic in the entire retro gaming community while Cross is more of a niche hardcore JRPG title.
CT's prot would be better if it was told better. But it's told in the most moronic way possible. You won't know what the frick is going on for about 30% of the game. Then a big event happens that explains some things. But also adds greater complexity. So then you will have new things to be uncertain about for about 85% of the game. And then you get a huge info dump(and I mean HUGE) that explains it all. Except it's so convoluted, that you won't understand the explanation. So then you go to a website that tries to explain it in plain detail, but by this point you're frustrated and don't care anymore, and you're not retaining information.
Don't bother playing it. It's not worth it. The actual gameplay is just kind of meh. A little slow, like all PS1 JRPGs, thanks to battle transitions and loading.
>Dalton's conquest of Guardia.
is that why there’s a magic guild in present day according to Chrono Cross? Even though magic in humans is dead? Dalton brought magic back? How?
That's what makes him a unique villain tbh, it's just some kind of creature or force of nature. That's why it's fricking stupid when Chrono Cross says that he's "filled with hatred and sadness", because as far as Trigger is concerned he's just some fricking space tick.
He's filled with hatred because he got fricking merked, that makes plenty of sense for any intelligent entity. And you can't say Lavos is not intelligent.
To be fair, the Reptites were the ones who tried to eradicate the "apes" first. And would have succeeded if Lavos and the Chrono team didn't show up out of nowhere to destroy them. The bigger question is how the "apes" managed to survive. Sure, they have warm blood. But it's still pretty silly to think the Reptites couldn't come up with some heating unit to survive. Especially when in another timeline, they built a giant bio arcology.
Azala didn't like the idea of cold weather and basically roped their entire species into a suicide cult by building their home where Lavos was going to land.
Wouldn’t the planet have stayed warm had Lavos not landed?
Also they are intelligent enough to know they need warmth.
Suicide cult is more narratively appealing though, and she speaks some strange zealous wisdom before she dies. It’s believable. I’m still mad we couldn’t save her, since we know from Cross that her people are deserving of their own civilization.
Lavos (and to an extent Azala) murders the Reptites. The whole point was his arrival and the inevitable ice age he would cause would kill them all. This is why Azala rejects the proposal for peace when you confront her. As
Lavos was the antagonist. he was made to absorb the earth. but the true villains were everyone in the other time lines that were exploiting it's power to further there own ends.
mentions, each timeline has a villain. She is a psychopath who rather than trying to save her people is just trying to bring everyone with her. You're supposed to look at what happens with the Reptites as a shame but it's in no way the fault of Chrono or co, they just prevented things from being worse.
yes, it is "bad" for humanity, but it's not evil
to call something evil implies it has the capacity to understand human morals and subscribes to them
the desire to exist cannot be evil, even if it causes the eradication of a planet, when the thing causing the destruction is simply acting within its own nature
Remember when we had kino JRPGs like Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross, Grandia, Suikoden 1 and 2, Breath of Fire, Xenogears, Secret of Mana, FF7-8-9...?
What's the last JRPG story that made you feel this ?
Probably Dragon Quest VIII. Or Muramasa, though people won't count that as a traditional JRPG.
Bravely Default could have done this. But they ruined it with so much fricking filler dialogue. And the story doesn't actually start until Chapter 5 when De Rosso and the Sage basically dump the entire plot in half an hour. Unlike other people, I actually like the story in Bravely Default. I just hate the way it was executed. If they re-released the game, removing all the filler dialogue and having Chapters 1-4 reveal stuff better, then it would be one of my favorite games.
I'm a massive Dragon Quest fanboy. But I didn't enjoy IX or XI. In my opinion, both games lost the appeal of Dragon Quest to me and focused more on linear events/trigger quests. They need to go back to stuff like Dragon Quest III, IV, V or VIII.
The ports are ugly as hell, basically a texture filter that makes everything muddy.
Grandia 2 isn't my cup of tea. But Grandia 1 is fantastic, everything about it is just beautiful, the writing is great, it's childish but full of wonder, adventure, it's a real gem.
>A parasite alien is summoned by an ancient civilization just for experiment sakes 'cause more power/controlling power is never too much >things go awfully wrong and the monster awakens, killing 99% of humans in a near future >you know earth is fricked up but you have a chance to face the monster >turns out it's much stronger than expected and your MC permanently dies by being disintegrated >you flee, and find out there is a way to travel back in time to prevent this and save him >you get stronger, learn more about the planet and the monster so you can face him expecting a better outcome >it works
Chrono Trigger is a beautiful game and you can't find an objective flaw. Seethe harder, Zoomer.
Lavos is just hungry, The queen used him for evil but he’s not destroying the world out of spite, he just absorbs energy, releases it and moves on
He’s too high up on the food chain to be considered evil, he’s just a predator
i would trade chronotriggers storyline for majority of the slop thats out now, and id argue that “main villain has to be sympathetic and misunderstood because of le epic depth …just b-because ok ?” is getting as obnoxious and stale.
Hope/expectations on Chrono Trigger remake? The fact that SE decided to skip to CT and only bring CC to morden consoles pretty much comfimed that CT remake is inevitable at this point
Do you prefer the game to be 2.5D sprites like Octopath or full remake like Trials of Mana?
It's gotta be 2.5 at this point. That's the only way it makes sense. >remake Tokita's first game (Live A Live) in the engine >remake a game with Toriyama's style (DQ3) in the engine
They might as well have already announced it, they're preparing for it as clearly as possible.
>Hope/expectations on Chrono Trigger remake?
I hope it never gets made. And the rumor is Square is doing a 2.5D "HD" version like with Dragon Quest III. Which isn't good either. But at least that can be ignored. When it comes out, people will b***h that the backgrounds clash with the sprites and the movement is all wrong and basically everything that was changed from the SNES original. And that's also why a 3D remake should never be attempted.
>Chrono Trigger predicted busty boys
Dragon Quest (and Dragon Ball) did it before. It was more of an homage to Toriyama's earlier characters. As was Chrono Trigger as a whole.
>villain is bad because he just is
Disgustingly based
Frick loregays, not everything needs MUH DEEP EPIC TRAUMATIC BACKSTORY, sometimes evil fricks are just evil
Do you contemplate whether or not some mosquito on your arm is good or evil before killing it? No, you kill it for being an inconvenience. Why would you then care about the feelings of a gigantic space barnacle that's going to do something as inconvenient as wiping out your entire species?
He destroyed Earth, good guys don't do that
>gets rid of all the degeneracy and moloch worshippers, not to mention the whole of africa
sounds like a good guy to me
>gets rid of all the future trad wives
🙁
How many Black folk lives are worth 1 Aryan White life?
0.1
But Lavos is shown to not be a generic monster. That said, I also dislike this trope. But not as much as "the villain is evil because he's just crazy."
Shut the frick up.
The irony that you sound like an angry Kefka/Sephiroth fanboy with that response.
>But not as much as "the villain is evil because he's just crazy."
I used to hate this but I've come full circle. I'm tired of every villain needing a plethora of reasons to justify their actions. Now I'm starting to like simplistic reasons or even just being evil because they are. Charisma matters way more to me at this point.
The problem is, a lot of the time the "villain is evil just because they're crazy" has the developers try to give them a huge cerebral reasoning (usually in momologue form) and a sappy traumatic past to justify it. So they're not just crazy. They are not that different from the other villains.
>Now I'm starting to like simplistic reasons or even just being evil because they are
Same.
I'll take a simple villain over one with a badly written sob story. The most effective villain is someone you love to hate.
Lavos was the antagonist. he was made to absorb the earth. but the true villains were everyone in the other time lines that were exploiting it's power to further there own ends.
Evil or not, Lavos must be dealt with, if you wish to live. No one objects to the morals of prey fighting back at its predator, or the destroyer of its habitat. Some forces in the universe are simply diametrically opposed
>moron didnt finish the game
Anon, even if you don't view him as "le bad" he's equivalent to a natural disaster that needs to be stopped...
t. Lavos
>the villain is bad because... he was just born that way ok!?
>Parasitic alien entity that arrived on the planet and for millions of years guided the evolution of the planet's lifeforms in order to feed on them and then destroy everything once it reaches maturity, creating spawns of itself to send to other planets and continue the cycle
>LEL, jUsT a mONstEr
>guided the evolution
mistranslation
the arrival of lavos sparked evolution due to awakening magic in apes, but played no role in "guiding" evolution
the english translation, as always, is fanfiction
Bringing about the ice age and wiping out a competing cold blooded species is technically guiding evolution.
At which point in the game do you hear about the ice age? I don't remember this, but then again I played Chrono Trigger in 2000.
Right before he crashes into the planet you hear the Dino king talk about his visions of a coming ice age. And 12000BC is in an ice age.
The cavemen also talk about the weather getting colder if you talk to them after Lavos has crashed into the planet.
Ok, but who is or were the cold-blooded species?
The dino dudes.
Oh I see. I barely remember anything of this game. Lavos was basically inspired by the asteroid that killed real dinosaurs (doh).
This little homie and his friends.
AZALA SHOULD HAVE BEEN A CHARACTER
SHE SHOULD HAVE JUMPED ON WITH YOU AND ESCAPED
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
You don’t understand how causality works lmfao
Azala is a she?
Yes. She’s an example of a pre-human magic user too, as Cross later put emphasis on. Magic predates humans and reptiles are the rightful users of it. Lavos just gave humans unnatural access to it.
I used Back to the Future as an example for a reason. That Chrono Trigger isn't trying to be grounded or meticulous with the time travel mechanics. You save Marle and then they just act like the event was reversed. If you really wanted to get technical, Marle (and everyone else) going back in time just by itself would cause endless paradoxes. Let alone her dying creating a grandfather paradox that couldn't be reversed. But both BttF and CT don't care about these.
Trying to sound smart for going "umm....atchuallay" for pointing these things out doesn't make you cool. It just makes you sound like Neil Degrasse Tyson.
I’m saying the time travel logic in Chrono Trigger is about as sensible (nonsensical) as Back to the Future.
Erasing someone’s existence means they never existed period. But the game pretends she just went poot. “Aaaiiieeee, I’m disappearing, heeelp meeeeee”.
It. Is. moronic. Saying it’s not moronic is cope. Pretending this game is serious about itself is pure cope.
The problem is people treat the game as some super serious masterpiece, when it’s just a masterpiece of a silly narrative.
>I’m saying the time travel logic in Chrono Trigger is about as sensible (nonsensical) as Back to the Future.
So you're repeating what I just said...
>Pretending this game is serious about itself is pure cope.
I literally said the opposite. Serious question. Can you even read? Or are you just so mad you're rushing to respond without reading the posts?
You’re mixing me up with a different poster. I’m not accusing you of being a pretentious “n-no it makes total sense” lunatic.
You don’t need to be Neil Black Man Tyson to understand that time is one dimensional.
Well technically the reptilians getting wiped out was an accident on his part. Not that it really mattered to him if it was reptilians or humans or something else, he just needed some form of sustenance.
He intervened a few times. Mostly because he had been woken up by Magus, Zeal and Chrono. But yeah, not really guided.
But that makes sense. He made life more advanced so they’d have more sustenance to give. He is an EXP parasite on the planet.
She. Lavos is a she, anon. You fight her eggs and spawn and everything.
Lavos also sucks up the goodness out of water. It used to heal you.
It's only a she if it needs to be inseminated.
Lavos just doesn’t know any better. It’s a transcendent lifeform. Innocent in a way.
Also for some reason it liked Queen Zeal. I have no idea why. It literally obliged when she asked it to do something, and lets her stand on its shoulder.
Cute!
mammon machine
If that were true, Lavos would have discarded her and found more abled persons to work on the Omen. Zeal was a figurehead. She is no magi-engineer. But she stayed around regardless. She exalted in her immortality. Meanwhile Lavos nukes everybody else and keeps her as a pet. Why?
Cute!
Probably used her as a mouth piece due to her raw magical power. Although why not her children? They had more potential than her.
>Although why not her children?
He did end up using them. The big main plot point of Chrono Cross is how Lavos merged with Schala. What he didn't realize is Schala would overtake his consciousness. So it backfired on Lavos.
When it came to Magus, he didn't really "use" him so much as Magus tried to use him. And got stomped as a result.
Magus had more potential than his sister, though. The Zeal family were the mightiest magic-users aside from the three Gurus. It would make more sense to corrupt a Guru.
Schala never really overtook his consciousness so much as merging with her caused Lavos to recontextualize his defeat/actually add context to it, which made him so seethingly mad he tried to end the entire multiverse out of one grand final desire to avenge his own death out of spite.
Lavos is a sentient being and does know what's going on. He actively intervenes at some points. Him taking control of Queen Zeal is an example of this. And most of Chrono Cross' story is a similar example.
He doesn't like her. He controls her mind via mammon machine.
This. Lavos is corrupting, and he's very deliberate about it.
moron
It's a tick, it automatically deserves to die
You don't really mean that, do you Chum?
PLAP PLAP PLAP
Terrible villain.
I hate story trannies so fricking much its unreal
spikeman
I'll take monster over whatever the thing in Chrono Cross was supposed to be.
>whatever the thing in Chrono Cross was supposed to be.
Literally just Lavos with Schala riding on it.
Guy who's played Chrono Cross 10 times in order to figure out its story here. Time Devourer is something different. It's a basically a cosmic entity with the split personality of Schala's Love and Schala's Hate. On a thematic level, it's supposed to represent the contradicting nature of life trying to live in harmony while simultaneously needing to devour and kill to survive.
I mean he's a literal planetary parasite
Lavos is just acting its natural life circle....but that circle involves the destruction of other living things so these living things can fight against lavos to keep their lives, that's is how nature intended it. Now, the dreams eater, now that guy is completely sentient and evil.
Thinking Marle is the weakest character and Haste being useless is the ultimate midwit take advocated only by people who didn't even beat the game with just two characters.
Explain. It's been a long time since I played this game.
The short version:
>Haste/Marle bad because of two haste helms.
>Haste isn't even necessarily doubling your combat power, because of speed capping
What's the fallacy? Thinking that two hasted characters are better than three hasted characters. It doesn't make sense on a glance and it doesn't make sense when thinking deeper about it. Even if you assume that haste just adds roughly 50% combat power and Marle is somewhat weaker than ALL other characters as a baseline (a bold assumption already), she's still better after being hasted. And this isn't even taking into account the advantages of a free helmet slot
It's also stupid because you can beat the game with any team combo. Hell, you can beat it with just Chrono and Ayla. Whatever third member you add is just a space filler. So I always pick Chrono, Ayla and Marle. Marle giving everyone haste and clearing status effects.
>Ayla and Marle
Based, twin charm for tabs and other items.
Marle is good because she can double steal with Ayla to get some really high level equipment. She has a lot of good double techs and triple techs in general. I'd much rather have her than Magus in my party just because he has no other techs without using an accessory slot for a few gimmcky triple techs.
Marke's definitely not BAD, but the fact that the best thing about her can be made obsolete with hats doesn't help her case.
Lavos is both intelligent and manipulative, and its goal is to grow humans into a species worthy of harvesting as part of its life cycle.
Lavos is just humans as humans might be viewed by chickens.
This. The plot of chrono trigger is cattle killing the farmer.
He just followed his nature.
Still was kind of petty of him to start nuking everything when he emerged though. Just bursting through, shedding some larva, then taking off without purposely flipping the proverbial middle finger at the planet you gobbled up from the inside for millions of years would make him seem less 'evil'.
If you think about it evolutionary wise , that's just part of the process of making a safer environment for its offspring, kind of like building a nest.
He wasn't a monster, he was a planet eating parasite, it wasn't a fight for good vs evil, it was a battle for survival of the fittest, did you even play the game moron?
Main villain is le bad because it is bigger and wants to eat us, homosexual. It's the most primal form of evil.
he's bad because he is re-engineering evolution to feed his stomach
>ANCIENT ALIEN PARASITE LANDED ON EARTH AND ITS UP TO YOU TO FINALLY STOP HIM BECAUSE NOBODY ELSE WILL with environmentalist undertones
all fricking JPRGs in the mid 90s used this plot
It's stupid as frick looking back at ff7, CT, xenogears and those are just the most popular examples
It's a good classic plot and will remain a good plot as we're unlikely to ever leave this rock.
It just makes me wonder which book did they use as inspiration.
I want to read it even if it's in Japanese.
>all
Play more games, secondary piece of shit.
>all fricking JPRGs in the mid 90s used this plot
What? The most overused plot at that time was "nihilistic bad guy wants to become a demi god to control the world." Not an alien parasite.
I wish you could explore 1999 slightly before the Day of Lavos
>go to the past
>cavemen speak unga bunga english
>erase princess’s birth
>timeline still remembers her / the game continues as it was
>continents the size of isles
>continental plates move in mere centuries
What the frick
This game is famous?
As the Back To The Future of vidya, you are NOT allowed to make fun of Chrono Trigger!!!11
>erase princess’s birth
>timeline still remembers her / the game continues as it was
Because you save her. Chrono Trigger has plenty of silly things. But you're just making one up now.
If she never existed, then you’d have no memories of her existence, moron.
But yes, the world is a giant troll, since you have to assume everything that happens was already meant to happen, due to le will of le planet. But that comes across as artificial and enforced. I guess the planet was never actually in danger—WHICH IS CONFIRMED IN CHRONO CROSS WHEN YOU LEARN THERE ARE ENTIRE TIMELINES WHERE LAVOS NEVER HAPPENED LOOOL (the planet literally shoved magitech futuristic reptoids into the same timeline as the magitech futuristic humans (Balthazar) lmfao, and the humans later repurposed reptoid tech into their own magic system)
>But yes, the world is a giant troll, since you have to assume everything that happens was already meant to happen, due to le will of le planet.
This is actually a plot point in the game. That there's some "entity" that's guiding them. But it's left ambiguous to what it is. Probably not the planet but just a fourth wall nod to the player.
"The Player" sure as hell didn't open up a red portal for Lucca to unfrick her mom.
There's something above them playing fast and loose with time, and the fact it's left ambiguous is the smartest thing to do.
I always felt that was the Earth itself. If not then some other god type entity. Definitely never thought it was supposed to be "the player." I took the scene as almost a "thank you" to the heroes from the Earth after you helped turn a wasteland dessert into a thriving forest.
Crono is a lucky guy.
Chrono is a virgin.
No he's not. Both him and Marle died horrible deaths during Dalton's conquest of Guardia.
God, what a stupid fricking plot twist. Why oh why did Kato have to touch the Chrono continuity after Trigger?
>Both him and Marle died horrible deaths during Dalton's conquest of Guardia.
Which gets reversed after Serge fixes the dimensional rift. It's amazing how few people understand the most basic parts of the story. It would be like if you watched all of Back to the Future and still think Biff won in the end. Because you only focused on the middle of movie 2.
No he doesn't. The timeline gets reset back several years after Guardia has already. Saving the 1000 AD gang was supposed a major plot point in Chrono Break, which never happened.
Back to the future is even more inconsistent about it's time travel shenanigans. It's not a very good example.
Um, no. They both run under the same phony time travel logic. It is a very good comparison.
You’re just a pissy b***h. Dalton literally breaks the fourth wall. Cope you c**t.
Chrono Trigger is the same sort of silly as Back to the Future. Chrono Cross tried to make things more cereal (serious) and it came across as funny.
>Back to the future is even more inconsistent
No time travel movie is perfect but their concept of the "ripple effect" keeps most of the problems in check. Or at least, gives the protagonists time to get to a point where they can save the day.
The real problem with CC's ending is its so damn ambiguous and even misleading. Basically the ending lectures the player on being more nature friendly, then Schala says somethings like the dimensions are fixed, but they don't really show what that means in terms of how the divergent timelines were mended. Schala also mentions that Serge won't remember anything, but when he's back on the beech he asks Leena questions. And it shows Kid in a white dress for a second on the beach, but then she's chasing (You) through modern day Tokyo. Part of it might have been leaving it open for a third game to answer, but as a standalone ending CC is garbage. Doesn't help that the Millennium Fair parade ending for CT is pure comfy kino where most things got wrapped up nicely
>No he's not. Both him and Marle died horrible deaths during Dalton's conquest of Guardia.
Part of me wants to play CC just to see how bad it is, but part of me just wants to never touch it. What it does to the story of CT sounds awful.
The plot of Chrono Cross is literally about them reversing those events. Play it for yourself and see. Don't take some idiot on Ganker's word for it. Especially since all he did was read a wiki page.
There's definite problems with Chrono Cross. But more with the pacing and delivery. The plot itself is there. Just most people don't get to Chronopolis where it's all explained. And even if you do get there, you have to actually interact with all the ghosts and computer terminals and read it. Rather than just running through it.
>The plot of Chrono Cross is literally about them reversing those events.
You don't reserve those events. Those events happened in 1005 AD. The timeline gets reset back to 1010 AD, where the dimensions split.
>Especially since all he did was read a wiki page.
You're pulling out all the stops today, buddy. First the "you speed read" argument, now the "you didn't play the game" argument. Please try harder.
>The timeline gets reset back to 1010 AD, where the dimensions split.
The timeline being reset, meaning Lavos is blocked from escaping to another dimension, means that stuff long before the dimension split also get reset. Admittetly, we're not given a checklist of literally everything. It's left very ambiguous by an End of Eva style ending scene, complete with Schala/Kid being in the modern day wearing a school uniform (uh...what you doin' Kato?) But one thing that is confirmed by Chrono, Marle and Lucca on the coast is that their actions end up changing the events in history. Where they had previously blamed Serge for changing history at Leene's bell, they say on Opassa Beach that his actions have reversed this.
As I've said since the start of this thread, Chrono Cross doesn't explain things well. Lots of exposition dumps and purposefully cerebral symbolism, as was big with Square games at the time. But it is in the game that Serge reversed the events that led to the "bad end" timeline you see.
>First the "you speed read" argument, now the "you didn't play the game" argument. Please try harder.
I didn't accuse you of speed reading. If someone else in this thread is calling you out on something, then that means there's at least two people disagreeing with you.
>Where they had previously blamed Serge for changing history at Leene's bell, they say on Opassa Beach that his actions have reversed this.
Again, they're talking about Serge's meeting with Schala and him getting drowned and splitting dimensions, both of which happened after Guardia already fell. When they discuss the past, they're trying to contextualize the entire Chrono continuity - not say that Serge changed history. I've checked this in Ultimania as well. Nothing is mentioned about Serge changing that part of the past - only that infinite multiple dimensions exists and they might be alive in some of them (which reads like such cope, to be honest).
The entire thing of Chrono, Marle and Lucca ghosts showing up and "blaming" Serge for an event he had no control over is itself dumb. And leads to a lot of the ambiguity people have with the whole plot. Either this is a really bad translation by the localization team (wouldn't put it past Richard "frick everything up just to I can acknowledge my own existence" Honeywood) or Kato was trying to go extra cerebral with the writing.
But by the same token, this is why it's dumb people blame Chrono Cross for retroactively ruining Chrono Trigger. The events in Chrono Trigger itself already created a bunch of plot holes that could lead to far worse things than Dalton taking over Guardia. And that's exactly what the plot of Chrono Cross focuses on. Fixing those various plot holes. It's hard for me to believe that the whole point of Chrono Cross is to fix these plot holes...but then they just overlook one big one. And also that Lucca and others would just sit by letting it happen. Oh sure, Lucca and Balthier would just sit there in her orphanage researching the Time Egg while Chrono and Marle and the whole country is being taken over...right. Only way this works is if Lucca was making the Time Egg thinking it would fix Guardia being taken over. But in the game, the letters we get say it's specifically for helping Kid and Schala.
On top of this, if the events with Dalton and Guardia are canon, it doesn't make sense in other ways. It conflicts with events in Chrono Cross. Like the aforementioned Lucca's orphanage, Lynx and generally the entire Porre Military involvement on both the continent and archipelago.
>The events in Chrono Trigger itself already created a bunch of plot holes that could lead to far worse things than Dalton taking over Guardia.
Chrono Trigger was meant to be a simple, standalone story that didn't encourage the audience to dig into the nitty gritty details of its time travel mechanics and the possible plot holes they introduced. Nobody asked Kato to fill in those gaps. They were never meant to be filled.
>It conflicts with events in Chrono Cross. Like the aforementioned Lucca's orphanage, Lynx and generally the entire Porre Military involvement on both the continent and archipelago.
Not really. If you examine some of the stuff around the burning orphanage, it's heavily implied that Lucca developed weapons and tech for Porre to pay the bills and take care of the numerous war orphans they created. It's also heavily implied that her parents were killed in the war. The entire section just feels like an edgy middle finger to the 1000 AD cast.
Secret of Mana and Vagrant Story both play like shit, to be honest.
>implied
That's the key word there. We don't know. And the idea that Lucca would just submit to Porre and start making weapons for them is even less plausible to me than the idea that Serge's actions reversed Porre's invasion.
But nothing about the entire plot line makes sense. How Dalton got to 1000 AD, how Chrono and Marle would somehow die, how Lucca wouldn't have died, etc. Literally nothing about it works. It's almost like it was just an afterthought by some second string writer working on the PS1 port. Much like all the crappy extra content on the DS port. And later Kato had to make all these ideas work somehow.
Terrible taste.
I guess I'll still keep it on the list. I'm on a retro kick and playing through some of Square's Golden Era games. I'm almost done with my CT playthrough and I'm going through all of CT's endings. I've got FF7, Secret of Mana, and Vagrant Story on my list as well.
My suggestion is to go into Chrono Cross expecting a world building game you can get lost in. The fun comes from exploring every little thing on the map and collecting skills/characters. Not focusing on the main plot. Still, Suikoden I-III did all that and the main plot better. So play those sometime.
Suikoden 1 isn't very good. 2 and 3 are much better entries.
It's clear that Horii and Sakaguchi tard wrangled the frick out of Masato Kato during Trigger's development, cause boy did his attempts at subverting what Trigger built up completely fall on its ass. There's a reason why Trigger is a beloved classic in the entire retro gaming community while Cross is more of a niche hardcore JRPG title.
>niche hardcore
chrono cope
CT's prot would be better if it was told better. But it's told in the most moronic way possible. You won't know what the frick is going on for about 30% of the game. Then a big event happens that explains some things. But also adds greater complexity. So then you will have new things to be uncertain about for about 85% of the game. And then you get a huge info dump(and I mean HUGE) that explains it all. Except it's so convoluted, that you won't understand the explanation. So then you go to a website that tries to explain it in plain detail, but by this point you're frustrated and don't care anymore, and you're not retaining information.
Don't bother playing it. It's not worth it. The actual gameplay is just kind of meh. A little slow, like all PS1 JRPGs, thanks to battle transitions and loading.
>Dalton's conquest of Guardia.
is that why there’s a magic guild in present day according to Chrono Cross? Even though magic in humans is dead? Dalton brought magic back? How?
I hate the retcons…
>mfw when I got Magus do deliver the final blow against Lavos
I didn't intend for it but it was based.
HOLY KINO
No, that's Ayla. Kino has shorter hair
>The main villain is le bad because it's a single mom that tries her best to provide for her kids
lavos a cute
That's what makes him a unique villain tbh, it's just some kind of creature or force of nature. That's why it's fricking stupid when Chrono Cross says that he's "filled with hatred and sadness", because as far as Trigger is concerned he's just some fricking space tick.
He's filled with hatred because he got fricking merked, that makes plenty of sense for any intelligent entity. And you can't say Lavos is not intelligent.
>murder reptites because you're the "good guys"
>oh no the "bad guy" is trying to kill us we must murder him
uh huh
Weren't they trying to wipe out humanity purely out of spite because they knew the ice age was coming?
To be fair, the Reptites were the ones who tried to eradicate the "apes" first. And would have succeeded if Lavos and the Chrono team didn't show up out of nowhere to destroy them. The bigger question is how the "apes" managed to survive. Sure, they have warm blood. But it's still pretty silly to think the Reptites couldn't come up with some heating unit to survive. Especially when in another timeline, they built a giant bio arcology.
Azala didn't like the idea of cold weather and basically roped their entire species into a suicide cult by building their home where Lavos was going to land.
Yeah. Square writing is really something else.
Wouldn’t the planet have stayed warm had Lavos not landed?
Also they are intelligent enough to know they need warmth.
Suicide cult is more narratively appealing though, and she speaks some strange zealous wisdom before she dies. It’s believable. I’m still mad we couldn’t save her, since we know from Cross that her people are deserving of their own civilization.
Lavos (and to an extent Azala) murders the Reptites. The whole point was his arrival and the inevitable ice age he would cause would kill them all. This is why Azala rejects the proposal for peace when you confront her. As
mentions, each timeline has a villain. She is a psychopath who rather than trying to save her people is just trying to bring everyone with her. You're supposed to look at what happens with the Reptites as a shame but it's in no way the fault of Chrono or co, they just prevented things from being worse.
Zoomers be like
>villain interjects with an anonymous comment to make the players argue with each other
yes, it is "bad" for humanity, but it's not evil
to call something evil implies it has the capacity to understand human morals and subscribes to them
the desire to exist cannot be evil, even if it causes the eradication of a planet, when the thing causing the destruction is simply acting within its own nature
Remember when we had kino JRPGs like Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross, Grandia, Suikoden 1 and 2, Breath of Fire, Xenogears, Secret of Mana, FF7-8-9...?
What's the last JRPG story that made you feel this ?
DQXI. God help that series when Yuji Horii dies.
>What's the last JRPG story that made you feel this ?
ya this one was actually better than most old JRPGs as well
Probably Dragon Quest VIII. Or Muramasa, though people won't count that as a traditional JRPG.
Bravely Default could have done this. But they ruined it with so much fricking filler dialogue. And the story doesn't actually start until Chapter 5 when De Rosso and the Sage basically dump the entire plot in half an hour. Unlike other people, I actually like the story in Bravely Default. I just hate the way it was executed. If they re-released the game, removing all the filler dialogue and having Chapters 1-4 reveal stuff better, then it would be one of my favorite games.
I'm a massive Dragon Quest fanboy. But I didn't enjoy IX or XI. In my opinion, both games lost the appeal of Dragon Quest to me and focused more on linear events/trigger quests. They need to go back to stuff like Dragon Quest III, IV, V or VIII.
unironically Monster Girl Quest Paradox. It dethroned Lufia 2 after two decades as my personal favorite.
>Part 3 never ever
come on, it's just 8000 bugfixes away. Can't take longer than a year now, can it?
Wild Arms and Suikoden 2
I wish I have time to play them all
How are the grandia games? got them last year as a gift in steam
The ports are ugly as hell, basically a texture filter that makes everything muddy.
Grandia 2 isn't my cup of tea. But Grandia 1 is fantastic, everything about it is just beautiful, the writing is great, it's childish but full of wonder, adventure, it's a real gem.
>What's the last JRPG story that made you feel this ?
Do I draw Flea or Queen Zeal?
Queen Zeal and Schala oyakodon
Whichever has a bigger dick.
I'd do that... but they're not from the same timeline... like the the other day I drew Flea and Tata since they are in 600AD both...
Give me the prismatic breasts.
>A parasite alien is summoned by an ancient civilization just for experiment sakes 'cause more power/controlling power is never too much
>things go awfully wrong and the monster awakens, killing 99% of humans in a near future
>you know earth is fricked up but you have a chance to face the monster
>turns out it's much stronger than expected and your MC permanently dies by being disintegrated
>you flee, and find out there is a way to travel back in time to prevent this and save him
>you get stronger, learn more about the planet and the monster so you can face him expecting a better outcome
>it works
Chrono Trigger is a beautiful game and you can't find an objective flaw. Seethe harder, Zoomer.
Lavos is just hungry, The queen used him for evil but he’s not destroying the world out of spite, he just absorbs energy, releases it and moves on
He’s too high up on the food chain to be considered evil, he’s just a predator
i would trade chronotriggers storyline for majority of the slop thats out now, and id argue that “main villain has to be sympathetic and misunderstood because of le epic depth …just b-because ok ?” is getting as obnoxious and stale.
Hope/expectations on Chrono Trigger remake? The fact that SE decided to skip to CT and only bring CC to morden consoles pretty much comfimed that CT remake is inevitable at this point
Do you prefer the game to be 2.5D sprites like Octopath or full remake like Trials of Mana?
It's gotta be 2.5 at this point. That's the only way it makes sense.
>remake Tokita's first game (Live A Live) in the engine
>remake a game with Toriyama's style (DQ3) in the engine
They might as well have already announced it, they're preparing for it as clearly as possible.
Probably in development hell. They have too many remake projects on their hand right now not counting FF7R.
Square is just nuDisney of vidya.
>Hope/expectations on Chrono Trigger remake?
I hope it never gets made. And the rumor is Square is doing a 2.5D "HD" version like with Dragon Quest III. Which isn't good either. But at least that can be ignored. When it comes out, people will b***h that the backgrounds clash with the sprites and the movement is all wrong and basically everything that was changed from the SNES original. And that's also why a 3D remake should never be attempted.
Do you think Zeal has those spiky hair because of Lavos controlling her? Her hair is kind of shaped like Lavos' shell..
That's male.
I dunno. That's a pretty hot male.
Chrono Trigger predicted busty boys
Remember that you can steal his bra.
>Chrono Trigger predicted busty boys
Dragon Quest (and Dragon Ball) did it before. It was more of an homage to Toriyama's earlier characters. As was Chrono Trigger as a whole.
Spikeman did nothing wrong.
He was just eatin' 😀
>villain is bad because he just is
Disgustingly based
Frick loregays, not everything needs MUH DEEP EPIC TRAUMATIC BACKSTORY, sometimes evil fricks are just evil
>tfw you will never start a new bloodline with cavewoman.
Do you contemplate whether or not some mosquito on your arm is good or evil before killing it? No, you kill it for being an inconvenience. Why would you then care about the feelings of a gigantic space barnacle that's going to do something as inconvenient as wiping out your entire species?