>The moment Ultima takes the main stage the games plot collapses

>The moment Ultima takes the main stage the games plot collapses
Why did they do it?

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  1. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Barely did anything
    >Due to Benedikta dying so early we didn't even see much interactions with him
    >He didn't launch a full invasion on the mainland and go nuts like Genghis Khan or some shit
    Booooooring, what a waste of a warrior king character.

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      He should've been the main antagonist and Ultima should've never appeared honestly. Make him use Clive in order to destroy crystal for his grand scheme until we learn it at the end or something. His boss fight was best in the game too.

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Odin as the final boss
        >Have some giga Odin final boss fight
        If only...

        • 9 months ago
          Anonymous

          Odin could've been used for Barnabas' placement instead. Final fight should be 1v1 between Clive and Barnabas rather than Ifrit and Odin though. No one remembers Mundus or Arkham boss fights for example, everyone remembers Nelo Angelo and Vergil because it's cool to see fighting against a mirror version of the protagonist or someone with similar power levels to him.

  2. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Bro this is a FF, it has to end with killing god xddd
    I fricking hate this franchise.

  3. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    it was like they hit the eject button on writing a cool political plot and went to the most lazy derivative anime plot possible

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      I think covid absolutely gutted this game.in general. Check out the soundtrack, it has unused city themes for every major kingdom.

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      To be fair, by the time they switch over to the ultimate storyline Clive has 9/11ed every country on the continent and ruined the land value from a geopolitics standpoint. There isn't really a well defined government structure for regional politics to exist in as soon as you go after Barnabus.

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Clive and friends just walk in and destroy the main source of continental strength and their is no one there to stop him
        Did I miss something? I know there was a on going war or some shit, but you would think there would be some security.

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      Outside of Ultima, there was noone with any real ambitions of their own.

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        Kupka wanted a quiet life with his girlfriend

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      I think what happened is: the whole team went and watched GoT, then wrote the early part of the game together with it fresh in their minds. That's the part up to Cid's death. As development went on and on they just kind of forgot that original GoT concept and anime and jrpg schlock crept into the writing. By the time you get to the end the original intention is all but forgotten and its full blown shonen. It's a classic sign the game got re-written over the years.

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        That is probably it. Games are hard to make, falling back on what they know instead of swallowing their pride and hiring grr martin..er, idk if that would help or hinder...

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        On further inspection what political intrigue did we even see?
        In Dhalmekia there was Kupka Vs everyone else
        Sanbreque puppet king and his crazy b***h Vs everyone else
        Waloed was seemingly commanded by Barnabas and his mirage entity, I genuinely have no idea how this country even functioned

        • 9 months ago
          Anonymous

          The first scenes in the game baits you into thinking there will be factionalism and political intrigue.
          Iron Kingdom collapses into civil war and that's the last you ever heard of them.
          Sanbreques entire political leadership gets decapitated and Rosaria doesn't even declare independence despite 20 years of gorilla warfare.

        • 9 months ago
          Anonymous

          There are some shadowy dealings here and there and Anabella's whole thing, but aside from that, there's not much in the way of political intrigue. The various kingdoms and the empire are about as well-defined as the kingdoms of FF4-6. They exist primarily as places that the player goes to to do stuff, and their entire political system can collapse over the course of a single boss fight.
          Pretty disappointing how quickly everything goes to shit and how little worldbuilding there really is. Wonder if we'll ever get another FF like 12 where it actually feels like the devs are passionate about the setting itself and don't just view it as a place to stage their virtual fireworks shows.

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        Or they got to that point in the game that every FF reaches where they have to have the mandated "plot twist that makes everything before it irrelevant."

        • 9 months ago
          Anonymous

          Ultima isn't a plot twist though, he appears from the beginning of the game. He's not some le outta nowhere villain like other FFs

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        It's the same as every Matsuno plot before. The early game sets up some grand political plot only for the game to devolve into demons, gods and other shit.

        • 9 months ago
          Anonymous

          A satanic corrupt church seeking to resurrect their fake prophet "Ultima" was a better than FFXVIs Ultima
          Just saying

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            I don't disagree

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      The demo really made me believe the game would have worthwhile political intrigue and we didn't get any of that at all. I still think it's an 8/10 game but it could have been so much better than it was.

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      Ultima was literally in the prologue/ Demo.
      Proof that most people these days who play story games are ADHD, Zoomer brained morons who need everything explaining to them, spoonfed in small bite sized chunks or they won't understand.

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        Do you think this anon felt smart typing this, like he suddenly thinks he justified every aspect of FF16 being trash.

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Too low iq to understand what takes the main act means

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        Most people don't even know that Clive could only ever fully prime when a projection of Ultima was present to allow it. He only finally gets the ability in the last fight with Joshua's powers when their flames are finally his own. Also, Shadow fight wasn't some introspection bullshit, just Ultima fricking with Clive.

        • 9 months ago
          Anonymous

          This, whenever Ultima was shown it wasn't just for "ooo spooky hooded man" it was for a reason.
          Time and again Ultima showed he had the capability of being able to force Clive to turn into Ifrit or to stop from and take away his ability, yet I've seen people leave slack jawed comments saying
          >How could Clive turn into Ifrit one moment but not in this moment it makes no sense

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            How people can't grasp this after going through the Interdimensional Rift and have him spell out that he has been feeding and nursing you this entire time, then stops you mid-prime in the next interaction.

            • 9 months ago
              Anonymous

              Your webm frustrates me, what is wrong with that girl?

              • 9 months ago
                Anonymous

                she's probably injested a wienertail of SSRIs that would kill a horse

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      >it was like they hit the eject button on writing a cool political plot and went to the most lazy derivative anime plot possible
      this is literally every single ivalice game and yoshiP is a huge matsuno fanboy

  4. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    >>The moment Ultima takes the main stage the games plot collapses
    that's like 90% into the game, I liked it

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      Beating Bahamut was like 60% of the way into the game

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        and ? the focus was still destroying the mothercrystals

  5. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    Ultima is always the most least interesting parts of these games.

  6. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    The devs literally cannot help themselves, OP. This is a cursed series.

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Series
      No it's just Square-Enix that are reactive morons
      >Oh shit open world games are doing great, we have to have that in XV
      >Oh shit, there's this nu blackploitation fad, Forspokens the result
      >Oh shit, Battle Royales we get First Soldier
      Etc etc

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        They had been doing that with FF since the start. FF games were imitating whatever was popular in Hollywood movies and anime. It just escalated with FF12 and on.

        • 9 months ago
          Anonymous

          Oh really? Do you know what inspire VI? VII? XI? X?

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            >VI?
            Obviously Star Wars. But FFII and XII and others had the same inspiration.
            >VII?
            Lots of sources. But these were more anime than Hollywood. Stuff like Akira and Eva were the big inspiration for VII.
            >XI?
            I didn't mention XI. And it's only one of two FF games I never played so no idea.
            >X?
            Final Fantasy VIII and Chrono Cross.

            • 9 months ago
              Anonymous

              X was its own creative surge of inspiration, nobody but X and KH were rocking out the beach boys adventure game before or after. Frick, we need another Mediterranean/Chinese hybrid RPG asap.

              • 9 months ago
                Anonymous

                >nobody but X and KH were rocking out the beach boys adventure game before or after.
                Again...Chrono Cross did it.
                >Frick, we need another Mediterranean/Chinese hybrid RPG asap.
                Play Suikoden. It did this even better than FF did.

              • 9 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Frick, we need another Mediterranean/Chinese hybrid RPG asap.
                Final Fantasy 10 is more Indonesia meets Esthar.

            • 9 months ago
              Anonymous

              >Eva
              Eh, Eva probably didn't have much influence on VII's development tbdesu
              Started airing in October 1995 and FFVII was already deep in development by then
              Beyond that, I can't see much Eva influence in VII
              Nearly all the mecha in FFVII are Gundam-inspired and Cloud deals with completely different psychological issues than Shinji
              Xenogears has more in common with Eva than FFVII and even that comparison requires a lot of stretching
              I can definitely see Akira being a potential influence though

              • 9 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Beyond that, I can't see much Eva influence in VII
                There's endless visual influence. From the use of imagery and tone to just a general Anno style of framing some scenes. But beyond that, there's also some very obvious similarities to Jenova and Adam/Lillith in Eva. And the lifestream to the LCL of Eva. The sharp tern in how how cutscenes began to be handled with VII. And many other things.

                Besides this, we know the core story of FF7 was green lit after Eva. As there's a famous story that the creators of Xenogears had originally pitched their concept to be FF7. It got rejected. But they were quite open about how their idea was heavily inspired by Eva. So it had to have come out at least a little after Eva was airing. Did this influence the development of FF7? Can't really confirm that. But even if Takahashi himself hadn't contributed the Eva like ideas to FF7, I think it's clear FF7 had them. Someone on the team probably did. And really, it's not a crime to take influence.

              • 9 months ago
                Anonymous

                Not that anon, but is funny that both, Eva and FFVII got remakes that are actually sequels

              • 9 months ago
                Anonymous

                They were never going to be able to repeat the magic of the original. So might as well make a sequel. The irony is they made sequels that gave the finger to the fans, which ultimately was even worse than just doing a remake.

              • 9 months ago
                Anonymous

                I can't find it now but there was a post somewhere that cited examples from VII's pre-rendered assets (among other things) as part of a "third wave" of Westernized graphic design and typography, because apparently even that left an impression on the domestic market.

  7. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    >The moment Ultima takes the main stage the games plot collapses
    Sounds just like Final Fantasy 14.

  8. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    The plot collapsed after the prologue anon

  9. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Joshua has the power to cage ultima in his heart
    >Ultima still goes around the world doing what he wants

    What is wrong with Japanese writers?

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      >person who didn’t play the game

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      That was just 1/12 of Ultima or his people. I don't know. The story was gay.

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        i still don't get why that one ultima tried to possess clive early before he had absorbed the eikons
        and also wonder why the other 11/12 ultima's didn't try to do the same thing again

  10. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Demo ends
    >Fast forward
    >Clive is now a slave warrior
    >Wow, would've been cool to see some of his mercenary life
    >oh btw look it's Jill
    >oh and hey here's your dog lmao
    >so uh wanna come to my hangout?
    The plot collapsed as soon as the demo ended. Game sucked.

  11. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    >We didn't even take part in one real military skirmish as young Clive
    >Story just snipes Rosaria and that's it.
    I bet they didn't do it because the hardware would have collapsed to sub 20fps if they needed to rended a real battlefield.

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      The whole game felt on rails because there was ZERO reason to explore any of the more open hub areas.

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      FFVIIIs liberation of Dollet is one the most kino moments in FF.

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        Fricking Kino
        This should have been the opening for the game.

  12. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    He took the stage when he triggered your transformation into Ifrit in the prologue.

  13. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    Just finished it.
    Game of the year 2023.
    >I love you, Jill.
    I almost teared up.
    Best FF since X, and I consider XVI a somewhat spiritual successor to Ashura's Wrath with the insane QTE eikon fights.

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous
      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        Loved them. Jill's not quite Best Girl material but she's good.

        >Game of the year 2023
        Why? This was my first ff since 10. This game sucked ass and was boring as frick.

        Lots of reasons, the characters and world worked for me, I liked the light political shit with this magical/summoning intrigue influencing everything, the combat was easy and fun because Clive is OP AS SHIT but that's fine, especially for a game on focused on flashy, QTE-heavy cinematic battles instead of skill. Torgal's great and it had enough FF fanservice without going overboard.
        Even the boring ass sidequests sort of worked, because chatting up the townspeople always gave a little perspective on recent events and the living situation in the region.
        I was more than ready for the game to be over by the end but it was a great ride.

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        >tfw no gf

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Game of the year 2023
      Why? This was my first ff since 10. This game sucked ass and was boring as frick.

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        Not that guy, but it is the only game released this year that I could stand finishing, let alone feel shit when I ran out of all the content. The classification is a subjective opinion however, so you are entitled to yours.

        • 9 months ago
          Anonymous

          I’m glad you liked it but I thought it was mostly a slog. The only positive thing I have to see about it is the OST. Eikon battles were a major let down and was mostly just QTE garbage. It’s like they had no clue how to fill in the gaps between the boss fights either.

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      >GOTY 2023
      I feel the same, the ending left me feeling fulfilled but strangely wanting more, it told a complete story but I want to see more of the World, more of these characters. I think that's a mark of a good game and story telling.
      The relationship between Clive and Joshua, it's very touching if you have brothers of your own.

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        Truth. I even browsed the character relationship charts and Vivian's lessons, stuff I normally totally ignore in most games.
        And they let you pet the fricking dog.
        That's immediate bonus points in my book. If you give me a dog in a game, let me pet the damn dog.

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      I don’t know anyone that still thinks this is game of the year with bg3, ac6 and starfield coming out. Might not even be top 5 at the end of the year

  14. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    >EU and AU hours ff16 thread is chill, talking about the game, about wanting to frick Jill, about possibilities for future DLC
    >NA hours, full of doomposting, bait posters, troll posters.
    Are there are white people left in America or was it taken over by Mexicans and Latin America? All that seems to come out of that region now is Third World tier takes.

  15. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    MMO devs = MMO quality = Do not Play
    This equation explains everything relating to "FF" XVI.

  16. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    Give me a full open game like Warband playing as Hugo with major dhalmekian kingdom management features

  17. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Iron Kingdom
    >Had no eikon prior to Jill
    Can someone please explain to me how this kingdom wasn't annexed or turned into a vassal?

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      It was multiple times, Drakes Fang was under the control of Rosia until the Empire betrayed Elwin.
      It was a piss Ant little rock full of backward people until it got lucky and took advantage of the chaos from the Sanbreque Empire's betrayal, invaded Rosia, kidnapped Jill and a bunch of other women, raped Jill raped, those other women and before Jill was about to be raped to death her Eikonic powers awoke, and she became useful to the Iron Kingdom. She had the power to decimate them but was made to be a puppet on strings through her empathy for her country women who were held hostage (and raped).

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      The Duchy would be the only ones who would care to. The prior Phoenix died having used his power to defeat the Northern Kingdoms dominant of Shiva. They didn't get another Phoenix until Joshua years and years later. Elwin was busy uniting/conquering what remained of the North with the Rosarian armies. Both sides had no dominant for this part so their weren't enough resources to take back an island fortress. They would have got rolled had Phoenix Gate not happened since they finally had a dominant that could be taught to prime.

  18. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    Game would have been better if you played as torgal

  19. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    The plot eventually collapses in damn near every square Enix game since before 9/11

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      Every time someone says something like this it is because they just hated the plot in general or they fundamentally misunderstood major plot points in 16.

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      This. It's basically a staple of the FF series to have a stupid plot twist that crashes the plot halfway through.

  20. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    The plot collapsed when it was revealed that Joshua survived.
    >haha what if we put out a demo with a gutpunch of an emotional climax but then invalidate it just hours into the full game
    frick you CBU3

  21. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Joshua seals Ultima into his heart
    >”Oh shit they’re probably gonna have Ultima take control of his body and for the final boss you have to kill Joshua for real this time”
    >Later it’s revealed Ultima’s kinda just fricking around in the real world despite all that

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      Ultima is both a race and a singular entity.
      Joshua sealed that Ultima as it was going to frick with Clive, Joshua was unaware until they reached Ash and saw the full Mural in the Castle Dungeon, that there was more than one Ultima of what Ultima's true form was.

  22. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    https://www.eurogamer.net/final-fantasy-review-16-easy-to-like-hard-to-adore
    >Leaving aside the fact that there were Black and brown people in medieval Europe, this justification rings hollow given that several locations take open inspiration from north Africa and the Middle East, with towns that, for example, riff on Islamic architectural traditions and attire, but are predominantly or exclusively populated by anglophone white people

    Imagine getting filtered by Ottoman Rumelia

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Leaving aside the fact that there were Black and brown people in medieval Europe
      Why do these people have such a rock hard wiener for none whites?

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        We all saw this shit already play out with Kingdom come deliverance.
        The game features historical minorities such as the Cumans but, it all just came down to why there isn't some black dude in some bumfrick hamlet in central Europe.

  23. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    *Artema

  24. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    --

  25. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    this shit is worse than PS2 games
    i have no faith in this shit company anymore, still gonna buy FFVII Rebirth and KH4 though
    other devs still make good game atleast

  26. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    The best fights (Titan, Bahamut) and scenes (sex with Jill) happened after the Ultima reveal though.

  27. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    >People are going to be mad but, we gotta keep going
    >Destroying a crystal sends a country into massive economic decline and turbulence
    >We don't see anyone genuinely get mad at Clive & Co for this
    Hell we even barely see any state actors( except Kupka and he's not really doing it for that purpose) react to this group that's running around fricking up the established works order. moronic.

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      >We don't see anyone genuinely get mad at Clive & Co for this
      They're considered death row outlaws by everyone who is not Cid's ally. Some Stockholm syndrome bearers even tried blaming Clive for "meddling" with their lives after the time skip.

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        the whole "cid the outlaw the most wanted man in valisthea" not doing anything to hide himself and just walking around openly after the first timeskip cutscene was also strange
        there weren't even any wanted posters for him

  28. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    The game shit itself with Titan final battle theme
    >Muh sonic reference
    Yes, but at least put some music that fit the moment, that theme was slow as frick

  29. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    >The moment Ultima takes the main stage the games plot collapses
    It really doesn't, you have to be a brainlet to think this. It just moves on from the plot about the kingdoms to the real overarching threat now that all the kingdoms have imploded and there's only one real enemy left.

  30. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    i'm not the only one who thinks the scaling of valisthea is really wack and all over the place right?
    the few cutscenes and stages that takes place in the cities are very big as one would expect
    but then there are the villages and the continent areas that are really small despite making up much of the land in the world map
    i thought the open zones would be like the ones from ff14's eorzea, where there are multiple different zones per continent, instead it feels like it's around the same size as 15

  31. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    >What if we returned to the low stakes people being game of thrones style political buttholes inciting wars again like people want?*

    >*but then we descent into vague ancient alien horseshit halfway through after killing off every interesting character on the cast and having nothing left to carry the second half.

  32. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    I think the issue is that they really don't want Clyde to gut his mother like a fish. I mean, she was a tremendous b***h, but hardly good at being a final enemy. It's why she goes crazy and kills herself.

  33. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    The damage is done with the main story
    the most i can hope for, is them doing a prequel dlc starring cid, to expand on all the dominants(especially benedikta and barnabus) and kingdoms

  34. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    This post describes my feelings on the game.
    https://www.youtube.com/post/UgkxOLqK_Y5Aw0Iicw5_cmA0hB5F5-6QvxCa

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