>Delfino Island is the most coherent, well-designed location in any Mario game
>Still looks amazing, especially locations like Sirena Beach or Noki Bay
>People got absolutely filtered by FLUDD, debatedly still one of the greatest additions to Mario's moveset
Most of the hate this game gets is either from SM64gays who don't like the fact that it's "too gimmicky" or from zoomers who have only ever played Odyssey.
>Delfino Island is the most coherent, well-designed location in any Mario game
Quite literally not an argument.
My only complaint about Sunshine is that it began the trend of linearity, often only allowing you to collect a single shine at a time in a stage
Later Mario games would continue this trend for the worse, such as Galaxy.
OP means that the island feels real, especialy since you can see other stages in the skyboxes. This is in contrast to 64 or Galaxy, where stages are abstract areas with no connection to one another
>began the trend of linearity, often only allowing you to collect a single shine at a time in a stage
...that's the same as mario 64 (aside from the 100 coin stars) though
Think he meant shines had a linear order. In 64 you can come across another star that you didn't choose on the select screen.
>My only complaint about Sunshine is that it began the trend of linearity, often only allowing you to collect a single shine at a time in a stage
I don't think it was a conscious choice to trend towards linearity, it was just a natural consequence of the missions in Sunshine being more event-based with each level materially changing for almost every shine, which they wouldn't have been able to do with just a single instance of the level.
It also allowed them to build a narrative with each subsequent shine like with Noki Bay and trying different things in each mission to clear the pollution, eventually cumlminating with the giant eel battle.
I didn't personally mind having each shine being "linked" in that way to the current event but there's definitely more than a few shines that could've been made accessible regardless, AFAIK the only shine you can "skip" in the original game is the first one in Bianco Hills where you only get halfway to the Windmill. There was pretty much no reason other than wanting to make the game linear to lock out the secret level shines for example.
The other big problem with the game is just what exactly is required to beat the game. While in SM64 and every other game after Sunshine all you need is a specific number of stars to beat them, in Sunshine you need to beat Shadow Mario in every level meaning that doing the Pachinko or any other level like it or even collecting any blue coin shines will never count as "progress" towards beating the game. It makes the game very repetitive specially on repeat playthroughs. If you don't like the Boo Mansion or one of the water stages of 64 you can skip them entirely on a repeat playthrough but you have no such luck for any stage or even any shine that leads up to Shadow Mario in Sunshine outside of a few speedrun glitches.
My only big complaint about Mario Sunshine is that it's got so much water and it has the worst swimming controls of any 3D Mario game. Truly boggles the mind. All they had to do was make a permanent nozzle for traversing water and make it work a la Majora's Mask Zora swimming. In general the "powerups" are a bit of a let down because you have to find the specific nozzles in specific episodes of levels.
I didn't find the swimming that bad, but it is very slow. As weird as it sounds, I still think SMG had the best swimming controls in the mainline 3D Mario titles, especially since spinning makes everything faster and you can pick up shells to gain speed.
There are stages where if you miss a vital jump, you have to backtrack halfway across the level to try it again. Probably due to the game's rushed development cycle they didn't think certain missions through.
Would it have been cooler if all Nozzles were permanent upgrades you can switch to on the fly? I think so, it would’ve given it a bit of a Metroidvania feel, going back to levels with certain upgrades
How would you design a fun underwater level in a 3D Mario?
Swimming works for Zelda, which you know already. 'Submersible swimming' in 3D Mario doesn't work too well because it's a considerably slower and contrasting effect coming off of Mario's insane ground speed. Having the FLUDD hover nozzle speed up a submersed Mario gives him a vehicular feel and not a human athletic feel -- a limitation. Turbo boosting as 'surface swimming' works great and feels athletic since you can still platform.
The water in levels is really for dipping / diving. The problem with making underwater levels in SUnshine is that you have to accommodate for 3 nozzle types. Turbo is fun but doesn't let you ascend, rocket is too slow for non-vertical stuff, hover is OP.
I must say that I love the weird setting of this game. Super Mario Odyssey's setting was good but it needs even more freedom for creativity and not trying to be safe.
It is hard to explain but Super Mario Sunshine has a different feel in terms of physics, sound effects, music and artstyle. For example using upgrades like the rocket nozzle for the first time felt more rewarding and was fitting with the item you use in the whole game. In Odyssey you get an ability after ability. There are only a few transformations that get used more than three times. The frog or bird were much better than some other transformations. I can see they tried to make Super Mario Odyssey like Zelda Majora's Mask. But there was no important story behind these transformations.
The blue coins and excess of red coins bloat this game.
But I don't fricking care, it's still the most fun I've ever had and will ever have playing Mario.
I 100% it every year during summer, I love this game.
I only cared to 100% it once. The Pachinko and water Lilly levels are never-againers.
They are not good, but they are not that difficult. Took me 15 miuntes each the last time and since I did them last I had like 40 lives at that point so repeating the yoshi ride wasn't a factor.
Pachinko is harder on Switch because they removed pressure sensitive triggers.
I did the 100% on Switch, I only remember having issues on the lilly level
Entirely possible, I play on the cube fren.
>fren
go back
>he thinks you can leave
k baiiii~
pachinko is stupid but it's not that hard, it's the lilly one that fricks everyone, not only the level, but reaching it
I'll never 100% again because of blue coins but the rest was fine except the lilypad travel but i beat it 3rd try
You don't even need to 100% it to have a good time. Most of the mandatory missions, as well as a few optional ones, are enjoyable enough to play through on their own. Blue coins always just felt like a fun distraction as well. I'd actually say that most of 3D Mario games aren't completely enjoyable to 100% anyways.
Best part of the game removes the central mechanic. FLUDD isn't bad but Mario is more fun without it
It doesn't help the switch port butchered the Fludd pressure controls
The Switch port was literal cancer, all they had to fricking do was to just pay the Dolphin devs to port those games over because Nintendo was using an emulator anyways, but they just decided to butcher the frick out of it.
I wouldn't say Galaxy is entirely soulless, at least not as much as Odyssey. The OST for Galaxy is still the greatest in the series and nobody can change my mind on that. It's also the most beautiful Mario game, at least the first one. That's not to say Sunshine wasn't beautiful either though.
I played it for hours with my older brother, it was a really fun experience.
>typical Nintendo standards
Maybe by 2000s Nintendo standards, but by modern Nintendo standards, this game is a masterpiece.
Sounds about right. Sunshine is the ultimate filter for who's a real Mario fan and who's just a fricking casual.
I miss this aesthetic, honestly. Maybe it's because gamers in general don't like water levels? FFX is another game that's controversial on here but I love the overall design and aesthetics of it.
nah it's just trash
There's something to be said about Sunshine's lack of polish.
I'd rather have underpolish than complete overpolish like Galaxy where any soul has been ironed out and every aspect is designed by committee.
Sunshine is flawed, but it's a flawed masterpiece and probably the best 3d Mario game
The game's biggest flaw is its lack of collision detection. You will die many times because the game doesn't recognize you landed where you did.
I remember playing the game for about 16 hours straight when I got it, so I must have liked it
>People got absolutely filtered by FLUDD, debatedly still one of the greatest additions to Mario's moveset
FLUDD was shit and you know it. Completely negated the would be engaging platforming, and the stupid "clean everything" levels. I still like the game but it would have been much better if they just made the levels themselves more interactive instead of forcing you to use the water pack for your interaction.
The most rushed Nintendo games are the best Nintendo games. Miyamoto needs to crack the whip and put them under pressure again.
>earning shines left and right wondering when the frick i unlock the volcano
>nearly get all of them before learning that you just need to beat the shadow mario levels
i was certain it was a specific amount. for so long i was so certain.
Its time to just admit it millennials. Zoomers got the best mario. Keep seething for eternity
pic unrelated?
stop the shitting to the zoomers, zoomers grew up with GC or Wii, not the Switch, that's gen alpha
Every generation gets the best Mario since every game is 10/10.
>Boomers: Super Mario 64
>Millennials: Super Mario Galaxy 1&2
>Zoomers: Super Mario Odyssey
Mario 64 was basically the first Millennial Mario though. Also getting really fricking tired of people forgetting about Gen X and just calling them Boomers, they fricking hated Boomers.
Super Mario 64 is millennial and Galaxy 1 & 2 are zillennial.
I don’t even care you can only do missions in order or theres only 70 real stars. My problem is that chasing shadow mario is not fun and you have to do that shit like a dozen times over a playthough
Well, no. I understand it pretty well. I'll tell you what I hate about the game, and hopefully you don't ignore it yet again like it wasn't said.
>The game is absolute cancer to get 120 collectables in, which is not the case for the other games
>Worst swimming in 3D Mario
>Worst final area and arguably final boss in 3D Mario
>Worst progression system in 3D Mario (do the first seven missions everywhere then unlock the final area)
>Game feels unfinished and jank especially in the optional areas
It's not a bad game, but this is not up to typical Nintendo standards.
Don't forget
>small amount of major levels, opting instead for Blue Coins and bumping up the Shine count per stage from 7 (Stars) to 11 to bulk up the difference in Shine count
>Nintendo standards
What remaking nostalgia games while blocking classics from emulating or modding with dishing out a bland new one that is super boring & easy every 5 years.
That kinda standard?
It also has the best movement out of any 3D Mario game, but no one wants to open that box.
Gamecube was the best Nintendo console & gen with the DS, had the most fun games for it's time, rest were trash before & after.
it's not misunderstood, its just that like Zelda, most of the fanbase are casuals. Thats why galaxy, breath of the wild, and other casual bait games are so much more popular.
cue botw cultists to defend their shit.
>"too gimmicky"
This pic gives the Sunshinegay a grade A PTSD
It's not that difficult
Difficult? I guess not if you got lucky. Its poor design though.
I also hated how mario was losing a life for no reason every time he was losing a race against that brown midget
It's a reflection of ritualidtic Japanese suicide. Mario commits ceremonial hari-kari with a tanto blade to preserve the honor of his family. They just don't show it because they wanted to have an E rating. Truly, a profound game
I mean yes, it's kind of annoying, but when you sit down and play it you can get it done in 10 minutes and there's that.
why is this thread still up, the game is dog shit.
were all you homosexuals born in the 2000's? disgusting
>dog shit
Good job exposing yourself, zoomzoom
All the other threads are either boring, bait, anime trash.
This thread is based and wahoopilled
>implying Nintendo didn't pay Martinet an offer he couldn't refuse to AI his voice for eternity
AI Mario would be the most soulless creation of Nintendo since Sticker Star
Nah it'd be more soulful than a replacement, but it'd be forced soul.
But its not fun.
Most of the mandatory shines suck ass in the game, blue coins are horrible. The opening is four hundred days long. It's not nearly as replayable as SM64 because you MUST get the SAME shines every playthrough. None of the optional secret shines do anything.
Fludd is very fun to use and I enjoy a few of the secrets but the game is not that great.
>missions suck, blue coins suck, bad structure
You're 100% right. And despite that, controlling mario is so great in this game, even doing subpar tasks is fun.
Slightly related, but for me it's like playing Spyro 2 on the psx. It's my least favorite game, but when you learn how to exploit the double jump glitch the game becomes a treasure trove of speed gameplay. Except on sunshine you can do shit fast just by using mario's incredibly precise moveset. It's just enjoyable to do anything with this controls.
The great theming and soundtrack are the cherry on top. It's just a fun time.
some big time water games back then. FFX, Wind Waker and this
Why does Mario look like he’s doing the SA1 Pose here?
This is my phone lock screen btw
>filtered
stopped reading here at your annoying zoomer lingo
>he got filtered by a word
Thread seems to be dying so, rank yourselves anons
I go as far back as Superstar Saga on GBA, my first Mario RPG and I’m 28 btw.
This picture induced cancer in me, congrats.
Sorry
Who did it better?
>Filtered by FLUDD
>Filtered
Fludd sucks, simple as. The hover nozzle completely trivializes any platform challenges in the game. That isn't to say there isn't crisp movement possible, but the game never really forces you try it. Simple fact of the matter is that side flips + hover nozzle can clear 99% of the platforming in the game.
Fludd is unfun. It's slow. It's boring. And it feels cheesy. The later 3D marios have much better platforming gimmicks that allow for mid-air correction without being as completely overbearing.