The controller works for some styles of game but is shit for others.
The stick being above the left dpad works in games where you want forward movement with quick dpad access and situations where you'd use both at the same time, commonly done by resting the inside rear of the thumb against the stick.
That style of control method can't work the same way on a dualshock. The right stick being lower and used for camera control works because you don't use the right face buttons generally at the same time as the camera or if you do camera spin is put on shoulder buttons again. Control methods evolved with dual sticks and camera controls to a point that main actions are now commonly put onto shoulder buttons with minor quick actions on the right face buttons instead and used in situations where one would not be moving or needing to adjust a camera such as menuing.
What's weird is that the sticks being offset isn't the only good control method, since it can work with two sticks in the upper position again due to the way our hands work allowing us to apply pressure.
For the dualshock bottom layout to even remotely come close to other layouts, the sticks must be inverted to match, but then it runs into another ergonomic woe, the sticks are in the centre so only centre facing buttons are ideal to use.
So what Sony have made is a controller that's good for menuing, 2D platformers and home console ports of arcade fighters. It is a layout suited for slow games only.
They haven't changed with the times and it's clear they're run by mutant lizard abominations who must be purged from this planet, co-existence cannot be achieved so long as those thumbless fricks keep forcing this controller on the general public.
It's simple, grow some thumbs lizardmen or die.
Perfection doesn't exist.
To be serious though, I would like a mix between a Saturn and Dualshock.
I prefer the Saturn/Xbox style d-pads more and 6 buttons are better than 4 (also lines instead of diamond-shaped).
DS has the analog sticks in preferred place and L2/R2.
>muh ergonomics
I primarily use the d-pad including in 3D games if possible, besides you use right stick to babysit the camera all the time in most 3D games so why are you not complaining about the right stick ergonomics?
Ergonomics wise they completely copied 360 controller anon.
R1/L1 were the main shoulder buttons on DS.
Starting with DS4 triggers became the main shoulder buttons. That's where your fingers are supposed to rest.
I even swap L1/R1 with L2/R2 when emulating PS1-3.
Maybe I have big hands.
It feels like I'm holding DS2 with fingertips. Otherwise my fingers are overextending above buttons.
I hold 360, DS4 without caring about how I hold them.
360 and DS4 have similar grip to an extend. DS2 is feel completely different to me.
No controller will ever be perfect because everyone has different hands. The Dualshock controller is probably the most universally used standard in all of gaming as of right now, though.
>No controller will ever be perfect because everyone has different hands.
Xbox controller has the best shape when it comes to ergonomics.
We know Microsoft spends a lot of money for it's development and it shows.
Sure we all have different hands, but there are ways to accommodate to an extend with proper research. >The Dualshock controller is probably the most universally used standard in all of gaming as of right now, though.
DS4 and DualSense are great, but they feel completely different from DS1-3. I would refuse to go back to DS2.
When you hold it, does it feels similar to 360 or DS2? You know the answer.
I'm not really interested in your history revision shilling. No, Sony didn't somehow copy Microsoft by lowering its shoulder buttons by half an inch between designs. No, the DS4 is nothing like the Xbox 360 controller. What even is this moronic argument trying to piggyback and take credit for the DS4? Are you going to feel better at night if you tell yourself the DS4 is Microsoft's controller? Jesus. I couldn't imagine being this much of a console fanboy lobbyist.
You can be happy enough knowing that both the Dualshock and Xbox controllers are the top 2 popular choices and it mostly comes down to personal preference.
I use PC. I don't care about consoles.
You use triggers for shooting just like 360. This was already discussed when PS4 was announced. I don't care either way.
I commend Sony for this. I hated their older design. I like new DS design.
I get to chose between 2 good controller thanks to their decision.
It's better than the sum of it's parts, but I prefer the DS1. Has a higher build quality non-mushy dpad and looser analog sticks. My ideal controller would probably be the original PS1 pad with a decent dpad and non-rubber start/select.
That's an advantage if you ask me.
You can claw grip to change weapons. You have to use your right hand otherwise.
Dpad feels much better at top where as stick doesn't matter that much.
Only disadvantage it might be maybe Xbox's shape only works better because it's asymmetrical, but I'm not sure.
damn straight. i still use it after all these years. built like a tank vs my ps3 controller that had been replaced 3 times, cheap plastic you practically can drop once and it’s toast
It's pretty damn good, only needs to improve the D-Pad. Tired of people shilling the Xbox controllers and their goofy concave buttons and shitty shoulder buttons.
The digital triggers mixed with pressure sensitive face buttons is the perfect combo. It's a shame we may not ever see a controller like this again. RISE UP DUALSHOCK 2 CHADS
Worst stick sensing arrangement, same as it's predecessor and nearly every controller after it. Ruined videogames. Resistance isn't uniform in every direction.
Best controller so far is the wiimote+nunchuck. VR could be similar/better, I haven't used one.
Sick of these PS2 threads. The world would be a better place without it. ICO and Sotc were great, but shouldn't have been bound to the PS2. Sony killed their dev studio, like they did for The Getaway Devs. Everything good on a Sony console ended up being killed by it. Not the usual fault of good things being unprofitable. Them shut down for fads like singstar etc. The sooner people realise it's a bad brand the better. They have no idea what they are doing. They are in the business of selling junk and misery. Quality is not their forte.
>Best controller so far is the wiimote+nunchuck. VR could be similar/better, I haven't used one.
I haven't used VR controllers so far but these and the joycons show there's potential in breaking away from the wide slab.
We only use a wide slab layout on standard controllers since we have shoulders and it's easier to rest compared to gripping a central joystick.
If a split controller approach came in with good rear buttons on the grip similar to the newer xbox & pro gamepads we're seeing along with face buttons then the need for asymmetry lessens since controllers no longer have to be shaped to be gripped by two hands.
With that sort of layout you can have MORE buttons as well if it isn't a straight baton and still retains an extra area for start/menu style buttons at the tip of the thumbs, because of that added leverage you can also have at least one more button that can be depressed by the inner lower thumbs.
There's not a lot of demand for innovating when it comes to gamepads though outside of people who need them for accessibility reasons.
>VR could be similar/better, I haven't used one
vr controllers are basically endgame. two analog sticks, ergonomic buttons, motion tracking that can approximate IR. only issue is it being chained to a big hot sweaty headset and a godawful VR interface. would kill to be able to use one of the wands in tandem with a mouse like a nunchuck with a flat screen but sadly not possible.
the holy grail of controllers. there’s only 2 things I genuinely love holding for long periods of time: OP’s mom’s breasts & a brand new Dreamcast controller.
If you think it looks bad, wait until you try to play a game with one of those monstrosities >cheap, thin plastic stick >dpad is the stiffest trash you will ever touch >shoulder buttons are hard, grooved plastic
It's like not even a single person tested the thing.
For kids and Asians, sure, for people with adult hands the original Xbox Controller S is better. At least when it comes to /vr/ era controllers, there are so many better modern controllers
Average adult male hand length is 7.5 inches with an 8.5 inch span. I have 8.5 inch hands with a 9.5 inch span and the DS3/DS4 controller feels comfortable to me. I'm in the top 5 percentile for male hand size. Unless you have literal pro athlete NBA/NFL 6'5+ height and hands of 9.5+ inches(less than 1% of the male population), I don't think the controller should be too small for you.
Not really, but it was a definite milestone design that proved to be incredibly influential. Controller designs were a hot mess in the first 4 generations of consoles, but almost every controller that followed the DualShock was some kind of variation on the same basic layout. But it's not the perfect controller by any means. Ergonomically it's not that great, analog triggers were a great addition and pretending that wireless tech wasn't a major improvement is just moronic.
>Controller designs were a hot mess in the first 4 generations of consoles, but almost every controller that followed the DualShock was some kind of variation on the same basic layout
Dualshock is just a SNES controller with extra should buttons and handles, and later on added sticks from N64.
Agreed about rest your post. Controller design is just an iterative process.
>perfect
EH, the dpad could be better. But it's the best all rounder controller.
what makes a good d-pad
Not feeling like mold and killing your thumb for starters.
what did the analog button actually do? as a kid id press it when the fricked up cable would stop responding thinking it magically fixed it
old ass PSX games without analog support refuse to work unless you push the button.
i see, thanks
how's a kid supposed to know that anyway?
By being 18+ to post.
Anon, the Dualshock was released 26 years ago.
Unlike you.
I don't think you realise how much time has passed since you were a child.
>No argument
by just trying shit like a normal person would when something doesnt work
fricking moronic zoomers, lmao
>a kid pressing the analog button while playing on a PS2 somehow learns old ass psx games dont work unless you do that
>Analog button doesnt work in a game
>I wonder what could be wrong
>Let me try this button
>Ahhh works
im sorry you're moronic anon, this is how most people reason things
>a kid playing on a **PS2** learns the button is for **old ass PSX** games
zoomers really are stupid
By reading the console manual or experimentation. Zoomers really do need everything laid out for them.
Dog nose
Nope
Incredibly disingenuous posted image.
Wii U should also be red
Controller S is the greatest controller ever created. I fricking hate that Redditor hipsters memed the Duke into reproduction
The controller works for some styles of game but is shit for others.
The stick being above the left dpad works in games where you want forward movement with quick dpad access and situations where you'd use both at the same time, commonly done by resting the inside rear of the thumb against the stick.
That style of control method can't work the same way on a dualshock. The right stick being lower and used for camera control works because you don't use the right face buttons generally at the same time as the camera or if you do camera spin is put on shoulder buttons again. Control methods evolved with dual sticks and camera controls to a point that main actions are now commonly put onto shoulder buttons with minor quick actions on the right face buttons instead and used in situations where one would not be moving or needing to adjust a camera such as menuing.
What's weird is that the sticks being offset isn't the only good control method, since it can work with two sticks in the upper position again due to the way our hands work allowing us to apply pressure.
For the dualshock bottom layout to even remotely come close to other layouts, the sticks must be inverted to match, but then it runs into another ergonomic woe, the sticks are in the centre so only centre facing buttons are ideal to use.
So what Sony have made is a controller that's good for menuing, 2D platformers and home console ports of arcade fighters. It is a layout suited for slow games only.
They haven't changed with the times and it's clear they're run by mutant lizard abominations who must be purged from this planet, co-existence cannot be achieved so long as those thumbless fricks keep forcing this controller on the general public.
It's simple, grow some thumbs lizardmen or die.
Perfection doesn't exist.
To be serious though, I would like a mix between a Saturn and Dualshock.
I prefer the Saturn/Xbox style d-pads more and 6 buttons are better than 4 (also lines instead of diamond-shaped).
DS has the analog sticks in preferred place and L2/R2.
>muh ergonomics
I primarily use the d-pad including in 3D games if possible, besides you use right stick to babysit the camera all the time in most 3D games so why are you not complaining about the right stick ergonomics?
There's nothing wrong with Sony, you're just holding it wrong.
Pic unrelated, btw
The rumble on the DS2 is really good. It took them until the DS5 to get back to rumble kino
What a weird looking Gamecube controller.
Even Sony admitted it's not perfect by completely changing it's design.
>completely changing
They're still using the same basic design.
Ergonomics wise they completely copied 360 controller anon.
R1/L1 were the main shoulder buttons on DS.
Starting with DS4 triggers became the main shoulder buttons. That's where your fingers are supposed to rest.
I even swap L1/R1 with L2/R2 when emulating PS1-3.
>Ergonomics wise they completely copied 360 controller anon.
What a fricking dumb thing to say
When you hold it, does it feels similar to 360 or DS2? You know the answer.
Neither?
Maybe I have big hands.
It feels like I'm holding DS2 with fingertips. Otherwise my fingers are overextending above buttons.
I hold 360, DS4 without caring about how I hold them.
360 and DS4 have similar grip to an extend. DS2 is feel completely different to me.
No controller will ever be perfect because everyone has different hands. The Dualshock controller is probably the most universally used standard in all of gaming as of right now, though.
>No controller will ever be perfect because everyone has different hands.
Xbox controller has the best shape when it comes to ergonomics.
We know Microsoft spends a lot of money for it's development and it shows.
Sure we all have different hands, but there are ways to accommodate to an extend with proper research.
>The Dualshock controller is probably the most universally used standard in all of gaming as of right now, though.
DS4 and DualSense are great, but they feel completely different from DS1-3. I would refuse to go back to DS2.
I'm not really interested in your history revision shilling. No, Sony didn't somehow copy Microsoft by lowering its shoulder buttons by half an inch between designs. No, the DS4 is nothing like the Xbox 360 controller. What even is this moronic argument trying to piggyback and take credit for the DS4? Are you going to feel better at night if you tell yourself the DS4 is Microsoft's controller? Jesus. I couldn't imagine being this much of a console fanboy lobbyist.
You can be happy enough knowing that both the Dualshock and Xbox controllers are the top 2 popular choices and it mostly comes down to personal preference.
I use PC. I don't care about consoles.
You use triggers for shooting just like 360. This was already discussed when PS4 was announced. I don't care either way.
I commend Sony for this. I hated their older design. I like new DS design.
I get to chose between 2 good controller thanks to their decision.
It's better than the sum of it's parts, but I prefer the DS1. Has a higher build quality non-mushy dpad and looser analog sticks. My ideal controller would probably be the original PS1 pad with a decent dpad and non-rubber start/select.
>symmetrical sticks
ISHYGDDT
That's an advantage if you ask me.
You can claw grip to change weapons. You have to use your right hand otherwise.
Dpad feels much better at top where as stick doesn't matter that much.
Only disadvantage it might be maybe Xbox's shape only works better because it's asymmetrical, but I'm not sure.
>ISHYGDDT
What does this even mean, boomer???
lurk moar
newhomosexual go home
No, boomer board is cool. ; )
this is the kind of post that makes me want to do a 360 and walk away
>but you would be facing the same way moron!!!1!!!
literally 2 seconds
yes, I want my D-Pad aligned with my buttons, sticks go bottom
Awful dpad
damn straight. i still use it after all these years. built like a tank vs my ps3 controller that had been replaced 3 times, cheap plastic you practically can drop once and it’s toast
It's pretty damn good, only needs to improve the D-Pad. Tired of people shilling the Xbox controllers and their goofy concave buttons and shitty shoulder buttons.
>concave buttons
wat? do you mean the sticks
concave buttons aren't that bad, what is that bad is every abomination Microsoft created and called a dpad
My Left joystick is kind of stiff and squeaky now after 15 years
The digital triggers mixed with pressure sensitive face buttons is the perfect combo. It's a shame we may not ever see a controller like this again. RISE UP DUALSHOCK 2 CHADS
Worst stick sensing arrangement, same as it's predecessor and nearly every controller after it. Ruined videogames. Resistance isn't uniform in every direction.
Best controller so far is the wiimote+nunchuck. VR could be similar/better, I haven't used one.
Sick of these PS2 threads. The world would be a better place without it. ICO and Sotc were great, but shouldn't have been bound to the PS2. Sony killed their dev studio, like they did for The Getaway Devs. Everything good on a Sony console ended up being killed by it. Not the usual fault of good things being unprofitable. Them shut down for fads like singstar etc. The sooner people realise it's a bad brand the better. They have no idea what they are doing. They are in the business of selling junk and misery. Quality is not their forte.
>Best controller so far is the wiimote+nunchuck
>Best controller so far is the wiimote+nunchuck. VR could be similar/better, I haven't used one.
I haven't used VR controllers so far but these and the joycons show there's potential in breaking away from the wide slab.
We only use a wide slab layout on standard controllers since we have shoulders and it's easier to rest compared to gripping a central joystick.
If a split controller approach came in with good rear buttons on the grip similar to the newer xbox & pro gamepads we're seeing along with face buttons then the need for asymmetry lessens since controllers no longer have to be shaped to be gripped by two hands.
With that sort of layout you can have MORE buttons as well if it isn't a straight baton and still retains an extra area for start/menu style buttons at the tip of the thumbs, because of that added leverage you can also have at least one more button that can be depressed by the inner lower thumbs.
There's not a lot of demand for innovating when it comes to gamepads though outside of people who need them for accessibility reasons.
>VR could be similar/better, I haven't used one
vr controllers are basically endgame. two analog sticks, ergonomic buttons, motion tracking that can approximate IR. only issue is it being chained to a big hot sweaty headset and a godawful VR interface. would kill to be able to use one of the wands in tandem with a mouse like a nunchuck with a flat screen but sadly not possible.
the holy grail of controllers. there’s only 2 things I genuinely love holding for long periods of time: OP’s mom’s breasts & a brand new Dreamcast controller.
The holy grail of garbage, maybe. One of the worst sticks and dpads ever on a controller and its ergonomics suck.
The triggers are a full inch lower than where they should be. Who the frick designed this?
If you think it looks bad, wait until you try to play a game with one of those monstrosities
>cheap, thin plastic stick
>dpad is the stiffest trash you will ever touch
>shoulder buttons are hard, grooved plastic
It's like not even a single person tested the thing.
literal frickin’ Black person morons
i've never heard anyone say this. you must be holding the controller weird as frick
One of the worst controllers sega EVER made.
no. with how many games feature aiming a controller with only a right stick to fulfill that function will never be perfect.
For kids and Asians, sure, for people with adult hands the original Xbox Controller S is better. At least when it comes to /vr/ era controllers, there are so many better modern controllers
Average adult male hand length is 7.5 inches with an 8.5 inch span. I have 8.5 inch hands with a 9.5 inch span and the DS3/DS4 controller feels comfortable to me. I'm in the top 5 percentile for male hand size. Unless you have literal pro athlete NBA/NFL 6'5+ height and hands of 9.5+ inches(less than 1% of the male population), I don't think the controller should be too small for you.
Not really, but it was a definite milestone design that proved to be incredibly influential. Controller designs were a hot mess in the first 4 generations of consoles, but almost every controller that followed the DualShock was some kind of variation on the same basic layout. But it's not the perfect controller by any means. Ergonomically it's not that great, analog triggers were a great addition and pretending that wireless tech wasn't a major improvement is just moronic.
>Controller designs were a hot mess in the first 4 generations of consoles, but almost every controller that followed the DualShock was some kind of variation on the same basic layout
Dualshock is just a SNES controller with extra should buttons and handles, and later on added sticks from N64.
Agreed about rest your post. Controller design is just an iterative process.
FINALLY, someone posted it. Correct.