The Pokemon at the top were cut from Gen 2 about 5 months before the final games, each one cut by the one pictured below. Some of them were as complete as having cries and dex entries. Do you think replacing these guys were justified? Any you wish made it in instead?
>Grotesque (Water/Steel, standalone. Likely became Huntail.)
>Tsubomitto (Grass/Poison, Evolves from Weepinbell with a Sun Stone. "It lives by absorbing nutrients in the ground through its root-like feet.")
>Madame (Normal/Flying, Evolves from Farfetch'd with high friendship. "A rare species that is seldom seen. Recent studies have discovered that the object it holds is a spring onion flower.")
>Norowara (Ghost/Dark, standalone. "It lives quietly in places that no one goes near. Rumor has it that calling out its name will curse you." Curse was its signature move, named Nail Down.)
>Twinz (Normal/Psychic, evolves into Girafarig at level 24. "Both heads are constantly swirling around. For unknown reasons, they always move clockwise.")
>Coinya (Normal, evolves into Meowth at level 14.)
>Bellrung (Dark, standalone. Signature move was Heal Bell.)
>Plux (Bug/Steel, evolves from Pinsir when traded holding a metal coat. "Taking advantage of its steel-like body, it lets itself take attacks, then pinches its opponent in its horns and flips them.")
>Betobebii (Poison, evolves into Grimer at level 19.)
>Ballerina (Normal, evolves into Mr. Mime at level 15. Became Mime Jr.)
>Wolfman (Ice. Likely became Snorunt.)
>Warwolf (Ice. Evolves from Wolfman at level 35.)
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(Ghost/Dark, standalone. "It lives quietly in places that no one goes near. Rumor has it that calling out its name will curse you." Curse was its signature move, named Nail Down.)
didnt it evolve into that chiaotzu looking thing
It did, but Kyonpan was removed way earlier. Norowara hung on for 2 years after. The data I gave are based on the most updated version of them before they got scrapped.
ok
some of these pokemon designs werent just cut completely, some of them seem to have had parts of their concept collapsed into other pokemon, or been recycled later
at this stage, iirc, umbreon was a poison type right? it seems as if bellrung and proto-umbreon were mixed together, which if true means that it would be weird to have both of them exist in the game
Bellrung and dark type Umbreon actually existed for awhile together, and I'd honestly argue Umbreon is the reason Bellrung was cut, since it's kind of redundant. That being said I'm pretty sure Dunsparce was in the works earlier than most of the bottom row since we have some very old designs for him, unlike the others.
>each one cut by the one pictured below.
How do you know this?
> Do you think replacing these guys were justified?
Bottom is better across the board so assuming they were the replacements then yes.
>Any you wish made it in instead
I’d bring back tsunomitto (so sprout tower would make sense) and a ghost type (norowara). But the igglybuff and cleffa are the only gen2 pokemon that made it in that are worth replacing.
>How do you know this?
Internal ID numbers and development files mainly. Everyone on the bottom row was either incomplete or missing from the Spaceworld '99 build, and many of the top row were already seeing their data being replaced (Madame is using Wooper's palette for example.)
There are also small design philosophies we can gather based on what Pokemon replaced what: Dunsparce uses Bellrung's palette, Pupitar uses Wolfman's, Norowara/Misdreavus were the only ghost types, and Wobbuffet barely kept a little hint of the Twinz design with its tail. Then there's Ballerina and Betobebii who were already basically gone by this point, and were hanging on by a string.
wolfman and madame are the only good ones
what i would say is, it was right of them to cut some of these pokemon and it was wrong of them to resurrect some of these ideas in gen 4 (mime jnr, leafeon, happiny, etc)
Grotesque > Chinchou
Tsubomitto > Lanturn
Madame < Wooper
Norowara < Misdreavus
Twinz < Wobbuffet
Coinya < Pineco
Bellrung > Dunsparce
Plux > Forretress
Betobebii < Magcargo
Ballerina < Corsola
Wolfman > Pupitar
Warwolf > Slugma
Overall that's six I prefer from the beta and six I prefer from the final, which averages out to "both groups are acceptable".
Did any of them have stats?
Yeah, they were all in Spaceworld '97 so they would've been programmed in with base stats, move lists, etc
Only one I know offhand who was unfinished was Twinz (I imagine GF still had no idea what to do with it)
I'll compile them, might take a few minutes.
Grotesque - Water/Steel [60/65/60/30/80/50]
Tsubomitto - Grass/Poison [80/120/65/85/60/70] (Literally just Victreebell but an offensive attacker, but at some point would've been a glass cannon instead.)
Madame - Normal/Flying [72/105/75/63/72/70]
Norowara - Ghost/Dark [30/120/60/120/60/10]
Twinz - Normal/Psychic [40/50/35/60/35/55]
Coinya - Normal [50/50/50/50/50/50] (Placeholder stats, but it's a baby so who cares)
Bellrung - Dark [50/50/50/50/50/50] (Much more tragic, but ended up having Dunsparce's stats for awhile. Likely cut much earlier.)
Plux - Bug/Steel [65/125/140/55/70/45] (Interesting note, Cross Chop was its signature move for awhile, and it gained access to EQ)
Betobebii - Poison [50/50/50/50/50/50]
Ballerina - Normal [50/50/50/50/50/50]
Wolfman - Ice [50/50/50/50/50/50]
Warwolf - Ice [50/50/50/50/50/50] (I suspect we can use an educated guess that it would've been an offensive equivalent to Piloswine, so something like [60/100/80/100/60/50] would fit.
>Norowara - Ghost/Dark [30/120/60/120/60/10]
this is the most bizarre stat spread i've ever seen
It's especially bizarre, before it was cut the gimmick they were going for was it learning Curse only and other moves via level up like Delibird. Its TM pool is pretty great actually. I guess the idea
Literally the most slow frail mixed attacker in the franchise.
>Norowara - Ghost/Dark [30/120/60/120/60/10]
S LO W
twinz evolving into girafarig would have been the weirdest shit ever, kinda glad that one never made it in honestly
The ones that should have been kept were
>Madame
Farfetch'd needed an evolution BAD
>Norowara
It and Kyonpan should have made it into the final game to give Morty more variety, but at the very least it most likely became Shuppet
>Bellrung
Only because I wanted an actual black cat Pokemon
>Wolfman, Warwolf
Insanely good designs, its crazy that they were removed
(Also other than a few expections here, a lot of these weren't outright replaced just had their index number taken)
kek, i forgot about that
>Made Sunflora
>Had a few different possible plant Pokemon it could evolve from and they used none of them
>Sunflora ended up a 1 stager in Spaceworld
>Sunkern got programmed in
>Sunkern then got dummied out
>Then Sunkern got programmed in AGAIN but this time with a sprite some guy drew in 5 minutes
best part is, with how broken the bug catching contest ended up being, getting a sunflora at all in GS was near impossible anyway
eel should've replaced lanturn as chinchou's evolution
madame getting cut was a crime
norowara vs. misdreavus does not matter in the slightest because both are barely in the game. but i prefer misdreavus's design.
wobbuffet is too good to leave out.
frick babies, coinya and betobebii can eat shit.
wolfman and warwolf are fantastic designs.
i'd say keep chinchou, grotesque, madame, misdreavus, wobbuffet, pineco, forretress, plux, slugma, magcargo, wolfman, and warwolf.
That Pinsir evolution's face looks so moronic, no wonder it was scrapped.
yeah i have no clue what it's supposed to represent even in a moonrunes sense, it looks so uncanny that it might as well belong in some crappy creepypasta
>a-and then i gave my Pinsir the Majora's Mask and it evolved into this creepy thing and killed my pet goldfish irl 🙁
i cant imagine any of these guys ever coming back except for Plux, Tsubomitto and maybe Madame. i wouldn't discount Tsubomitto from returning for lore reasons, clearly GF has no issue retconning things left and right anyway.
i really doubt they'd use any of these guys though, and if they did they wouldn't look anything like these versions.
Anything's possible though. I'm still convinced these homies became Fennekin and Komala and that was over a decade later. Same theming, animal, and general composition design-wise.
These are just "generic fennec" and "generic koala". I doubt they were used as a reference for Fennekin or Komala.
the komala one might be a bit of a stretch but i'm still convinced about the fennec fox, mainly cause of the flaming tail. obviously fennekin doesnt have a literal flaming tail, but the tail is where its heat originates from. It also shares very similar ears, tufts of hair on the sides of the head (irl fennecs are rounded in comparison), and its legs feet are quite similar to braixen's. of course it looks way different but this was a rough draft sprite and by the time gen 6 started Pokemon's art style had completely changed, and I doubt this guy was ever thought to be a starter so that "cuteness" factor is missing. i don't doubt the possibility it's a coincidence though, it's just as likely.
meanwhile the koala is arguably more likely a coincidence, since komala's main gimmick of being asleep isn't here. what interests me is how it's clinging to a detached piece of eucalyptus. they could have just easily made it rooted like sunflora (pic related) but they went with a detached piece for some reason. it reminds me a ton of Komala's log. you probably are right and it's just "generic koala" but a man can dream.
also side note but i just noticed the white over the koala's eyes, it kinda reminds me of komala's eyebrows
This design always stuck me as much more Earthbound-like.
I miss a total of NONE (0) of them
Justified.
A lot of these actually have a good enough replacement or counterpart now. Like the moon cat looking thing was cool but we have umbreon or luxray. The weird bird farfetchd thing is easily replaced by the better lugia. The cursed doll is easily Banette now. Mine jr, victreebell, goreybass etc
The pinsir thing would have been nice to counterpart with scizor. The caveman looking c**t on the far right could have been cool but like… primeape pretty much has that covered.
>The weird bird farfetchd thing is easily replaced by the better lugia.
you and i both know it's not the same
>The weird bird farfetchd thing is easily replaced by the better lugia
lugia was designed for the movie
That homie Norowara would've been a fan favorite, but I love Misdreavus too. In a perfect world we would've gotten both, and the Panda.
I can understand the concern that parents would get mad about voodoo dolls and curses with this kind of imagery. Too bad but that's the audience you have to deal with.
Why do I only just NOW notice that Ballerina & Corsola have the exact same face & color palette?
I like the idea of a vodoo doll pokemon a lot not gonna lie