The reason why so few people like tabletop RPGs and wargames is simple - too primitive basic mechanics and too many special rules. I know this is how autistic people like it, but if you want a wide audience, you have to have a game that attracts attention with its core mechanics with almost no addition of special rules. So the question is, do /tg/ willing to trade special rules for more people in the hobby?
I don't want more people in the hobby.
FPBP, based gatekeeper
Normies exploring TTRPGs was the worst thing to happen to the hobby
Then stop whining that people only play dnd/warhammer/mtg.
First, this is not the core mechanics, the core mechanics is the movement pattern of all figures. Second, the main thing is not the complexity of the rules, but the number of combinations that the player can make. And that's why chess will always be more interesting than Warhammer - simply because you can't autopilot every match and you always have to pay attention, while Warhammer games will almost always be played in in the same way every time because units stats >>>>> skill of the player. Plus luck. Although it is worth mentioning that it is not the fault of the authors, they did not want to make their game competitive, it is all neckbeards fault that Warhamaer became a "tournament game".
>the core mechanics is the movement pattern of all figures.
I could say the same of literally every game anon. "The core mechanics is the particular rules of every single thing in the game". Lmao. What a fricking idiotic argument you've stumbled in to making.
>warhammer
Well there's your problem.
No. In most ttrpgs and wargames movement patterns has far fewer types than in chess because diversity is achieved through special rules. And without special rules core mechanics can be super primitive like in dnd when without modifications everyone has the same distance and movement speed, lol.
>because diversity is achieved through special rules
You have chosen to believe that every single piece having unique rules for movement is having fewer "special rules" than warhammer, a game where a model has a stat on a stat sheet that days how far it can move and MIGHT have a special rule.
There is not a single piece in chess that moves in a way that allows you to infer the movement of ANY other piece. Every single piece has special movement rules and there is not a single general rule regarding movement. There is no baseline piece that moves according to the general rules because the general rules do not exist.
You are either befuddlingly contrarian, being disingenuous for the sake of winning an argument that you started for no reason, or just plain moronic. Whichever it is, I do not care. You are not worth the time it takes to type out posts responding yo your vapidity. Bye. Have a terrible life.
>There is no baseline piece that moves according to the general rules because the general rules do not exist.
No, the general rules are that each piece moves according to its movement pattern. More than anyone can said about Warhammer where movement has no rules at all, at least not anymore.
It's literally the exact same thing in Warhammer - the rule for movement is that each piece moves according to the movement shown on its datasheet/warscroll.
Are you actually genuinely brain-damaged?
In nuhammer, newbie. This is the only aspect that the new rules got right.
You were the one b***hing about movement in nuhammer, moron.
I never said this, all my problems with nuhamer are the new toughness system (everything can hurt anything? frick it), new WS and BS "system", lack of the old armor system for vehicle and deleted initiative. But the biggest turd is HP blob on everything.
Now how about Crossfire?
You do know about the influential 80s wargame Crossfire right?
You didn't even get the decade right
>in dnd when without modifications everyone has the same distance and movement speed, lol
No? A dwarf and a tiefling inherently have different movement speed. Just like a pawn and a rook have inherently different movement.
>without modifications everyone has the same
so when you take out any differences, everything's the same? yeah no fricking shit, moron
>Then stop whining that people only play dnd/warhammer/mtg.
Literally who does that
How many times has someone tried to /thread by saying "have you tried not playing [one of the 3]" or made a thread about being unable to find people for a given system?
>How many times has someone tried to /thread by saying "have you tried not playing [one of the 3]"
Hundreds, because they come here to shit up the board with D&D crap. I don't care if they play D&D, I just wsnt D&Drones to not come here or at least stay in their containment threads.
>or made a thread about being unable to find people for a given system?
Never, it's always "how can I convince my group to play this instead of D&D", to which the answer usually is "get a better group"
I'll keep whining. Don't tell me what to do, Black person.
it is all neckbeards fault that Warhamaer became a "tournament game".
Thats your problem, move or look for nonneckbeards to play games with. Where I live there are is LGS. The local ttg player base does not exceed a dozen and a half people. The nearest place to play in a tournament is an hour and half away, so we don't play competitively its just local games, be it ttrpgs, tt wargames, etc). You either build you're own group you you b***h endlessly.
>I don't want more people in the hobby.
>OMG WHY IS OUR HOBBY DYING
>OMG WHY IS OUR HOBBY DYING
Better to die with a soul than to live without one.
truer words and all that
>soul
>a small group of gatekeeping condescending napoleons
Yes.
I can't think of any /tg/ hobbies that are dying, unless you mean specific games that used to be popular enough that you could reliably find strangers to play with and aren't any longer.
Most /tg/ hobbies, much like /tg/ itself, are flooded with morons.
>I can't think of any /tg/ hobbies that are dying
>no, it's normal when you can find companions for only for 3 game systems
You're right, the hobby doesn't die, the hobby is literally dead outside of Dnd/Warhammer/MtG. And even the time of these systems is running out because boomers are not getting any younger, and there is literally 0 young blood.
None of this is remotely true. I'd call your delusion shocking if I wasn't already used to how fricking moronic most of /tg/ is.
Have you even been in the local clubs? 3 game systems, population elderly boomers plus sometimes their children who was dragged into the club against their will. And online the situation is even worse, dnd and nothing else. So you are either no games or autistic with 0 social interactions.
That's anecdotal evidence anon and you know it. 80% of people I see at clubs in my town are no older than 30 years old. Which is, obviously, also an anecdotal evidence, but it shows there are absolutely young people who play /tg/ and you can't just extrapolate your experiences on everyone out of the ass
Completely made up. Every tabletop group I'm in, including the discord around my lgs is full of neckbeards constantly recruiting for niche systems and eurogames. I worked at that LGS a couple of years too, and shit like Warhammer barely moved specifically because the only people in the region into wargaming don't want to play the most mainstream normie-friendly game.
1. The hobby isn't dying.
2. A good hobby will stay afloat without its participants having to go out of their way to recruit the highest possible number of people into it. Traditional games have worked like this for decades without problem, and should have remained that way.
The market doesn't matter at all you profoundly stupid consumption-addicted animal. I have spent $0 on RPG books in the 15 years I've been in this hobby, playing almost exclusively games that are "dead". You have a truly perverse understanding of the world and you are the lowest common denominator slug-form that whales out to corporations that hate him because he thinks he can "Vvooooooote with his waallllllet" to fix problems that only existed in the fanfiction some business told him was "official".
And gee, it's a real mystery where you come from, fricking sigmarxist troonoid, how about you grow up and take a serious look in the mirror at the fat, balding pervert you see reflected.
>CAPTCHA: DAMN
Meant to reply to
But also, dumb idea that anyone on /tg/ thinks the hobby is dying or would be dismayed to hear that it was, lmao
fr OP is either a troll or genuinely has never been on /tg/ before
The idea that any hobby must consist of brainless paypig behavior has been one of the most successful corpo psyops in human history. Turning unconditional loyalty to a large company into a moral imperative has been so thoroughly ingrained in the human psyche these days that most don't even question it and happily parrot the marketing department's outrage that a product wasn't as profitable and successful because *the customers* were big stupid fricking idiots for not buying enough products and now the company is going to DIE all because of YOU, because YOU needed to do better for the company!
It's fricking sickening and there's so many homosexuals on Ganker who don't even know they're doing it.
It can't die fast enough. Gygax and his friends should have been the only humans who ever knew d&d existed.
/thread
The best way to ruin anything good is to let in more people.
There's already enough shitters and morons in the scene. We don't need to add in dumbfrick npc normies to the shit filled toilet bowl.
This. In fact, I would greatly prefer if everyone who plays D&D 5e fricked off.
based
5e and its consequences have been a disaster for the hobby.
>too primitive basic mechanics and too many special rules
And yet you posted a picture of people playing chess, a game with like 3 basic mechanics (you take turns moving 1 piece each, you remove a piece from the board if your opponent moves on to the same space during their turn, and you lose the game if on your turn you cannot move your king in to a space where he would not be taken next turn) and then is literally nothing but special rules. Every single piece is a set of unique movement rules.
>but if you want a wide audience, you have to have a game that attracts attention with its core mechanics with almost no addition of special rules
Anyone who would sacrifice a good game for popularity deserves neither.
But I don’t want it to be popular or have an audience. I want autistic shit normies don’t like.
>autistic
>normie
A good game would appeal both, young or old, chad or manlet, and even girls. Chess is perfect in this regard.
Shut up homosexual. Mass appeal and popularity doesn’t make something high quality at all. What a fricking moron’s fallacy.
>popularity doesn’t make something high quality
it's the other way around you sperg
if the game is good it'll became popular
False.
The opposite, rather. The narrower the niche, the more likely it is to be good.
Test
>a solved game like chess
>interesting
>solved game
>chess
>there are even more possible variations of chess games than there are atoms in the observable universe
You are either a god or a dumbass who is unable to think ahead and understand the opponent's play style. And the probability of the second is 99.9999999999999999%.
>solved
The basic mechanic of a ttrpg is the GM. It can be basic and simplistic if OP is GMing for example but its not the standard.
OP is a gay Black person.
>if you want a wide audience
I don't.
I get your point OP, but the thing about wargames is that they can kinda go in two different directions:
Either they try to keep themselves realistic/simulationist, which usually does result in a fairly complex set of base mechanics trying to emulate all the intricacies of warfare, but few special rules and exceptions. This approach however simply isn't very attractive to most normies
Or they focus on having a wide array of (often fantastical/futuristic) units and factions with vastly different playstyles and abilities, which obviously results in lots of special rules for them
You could obviously do neither of those, but then you would end up with something rather shallow that could probably just as well be a board game. And we do have board games like that, some of them decently popular.
Wargames have always been a genre for people who are more interested in a cool, in-depth simulation of a battle, often a narrative-driven one, more than in a streamlined, smooth working ruleset that would make it attractive purely for the <game> aspect. No point in changing that
>which obviously results in lots of special rules for them
No, not obvious. Simply having different stats of units is more than enough to make each faction unique. The problem is that then it will not be possible to do business by selling old content with the addition of a few new special rules. Some systems like dnd may survive this, but for MTG and Warhammer artificial necessity right now is the main source of income without which the company will go bankrupt.
>Wargames have always been a genre for people who are more interested in a cool, in-depth simulation of a battle
So Warhammer is not a wargame. And don't even a skirmish, but a game of dice with extra steps.
its expensive to collect an army, let alone if you want to play competitively with how they keep changing shit, its a pain to transport so much stuff if you can even find a location and people to play with, then you might not even like those people, theres too many factors outside of the gameplay itself, and then the gameplay is not that great anyway and a lot of the fun gets sapped away at poor attempts at balance.
GW should just make a simulator of the game itself and purchasing the plastic gets you a code to claim the units in the game, or buy units in the game for a fraction of the cost as you dont get the model irl
>GW should just make a simulator of the game itself and purchasing the plastic gets you a code to claim the units in the game, or buy units in the game for a fraction of the cost as you dont get the model irl
The thing is, like you've said yourself the actual game isn't really that good. I enjoy WH, but like 2/3 of this enjoyment comes from the hobby aspect (i.e. painting and modelling), from the lore that I like and from the social aspect of it - going out, hanging out with friends that like the same nerd shit , commenting on the unfolding game, forging our own narrative for it etc. Remove all that with going virtual and it just stops really being worth it. You would be better of just playing an RTS or something else that doesn't have all the handicaps of /tg/ format if you are to play a video game anyway.
Especially if you consider the fact that Warhammer games are looong for vidya standards. Again, with actual /tg/ this isn't that much of the problem because, well, it's all much cooler when you have a physical minis and battlefield ahead of you and it's a social thing when you are hanging out with friends on top of just playing. But most vidya players consider 40 minute moba matches with constant action to be somewhat too long, fricking good luck finding a playerbase willing to commit to games that are few hours long and fricking turn based.
Also, if you really want it, Tabletop simulator actually already offers it for just the price of the base game. It isn't as flashy or nice as an oficial virtual version would probably be, but it exists
(2/2)
>inb4 so you admit it's shit and needs to be changed
It is far from perfect and I'm not going to argue with that, but what gays like OP don't get is that streamlined, board game-like rules are not what I or other players I know are in it for. The somewhat simulationist ruleset allows you to immerse yourself in the struggle of every /yourguy/ in the field and makes every unit feel more unique than a simpler, but more abstract system would. The heavily random nature of the game helps in creating fun, surprising narratives. So yeah, it's not a great game, but it's one hell of a fun and soulful experience for a bunch of nerds to meet for with. Keep it that way. Go play one of the hundreds of heavily tactical board games or even already mentioned chess if you want a heavily tactical game with a focused ruleset first and foremost
>The thing is, like you've said yourself the actual game isn't really that good again.
And nothing stops the authors from making the game good.
>forging our own narrative
Nuhammer is not capable of creating a narrative, the rules are too videogami for that.
>You would be better of just playing an RTS
Yes it is. Nuhammer is an rts on the table, how stupid do you have to be not to see that?
>Especially if you consider the fact that Warhammer games are looong for vidya standards.
And this is a problem because Nuhammer is already a video game, only poorly made one. And by the way, the amount of time can be safely cut in half without affecting the quality of the gameplay if you throw out all the stupid special rules and reduce the number of miniatures on the table.
>Tabletop simulator actually already offers it for just the price of the base game
But by your own admission the base game is crap.
>The heavily random nature of the game helps in creating fun, surprising narratives.
How can anyone find any narrative in Nuwhamer? Seriously, you're either playing nuhammer because you love video games and don't expect any kind of narrative sense from the game, or you're just plain schizophrenic.
Nowhere have I said we play the newest editions. But even if we did, I don't really think we would have any issue making a narrative with them. I just think the newer rules are awful, but then again like I said, I don't think old ones were all that good either from the game perspective and they all suffered from "issues" OP complained about to some extent, at least if I understand his intent correctly, so I don't see how it really matters that much to the topic at hand.
Also what the frick are you getting all mad about
It’s not though. It’s an ugly inbred set rules with 30 years of baggage and a hefty bunch of “pushing inventory” power creep.
I understand tts exists but i was just saying what GW should do to make money off it, while giving an easy entry point, its also a way they can balance for competitive like they keep doing, without fricking up the tabletop side as badly/often, basically make the tabletop version fun and the online version have fun mode and comp mode with different rules.
The only reason i think they wouldnt do it, is they would be too scared people would rip the models from the game and print them
You forgot that the rules are fricking shit. People hardly want to play that trash in real life let alone on the internet. It’s a game driven by the hobby side. Thats why list building is so atrocious. You aren’t suppose to actually play it. You are suppose to sit with your codex and five expansion and theory up an army.
I think I remember this guy from the last screaming fit he had that people had different tastes than him and therefore tabletop games should die rather than play in a different way.
Fun fact, but this is how corporate shills behave. Do you think that there should be alternatives to existing game systems? Reeee, how dare you. This entire thread is proof of this, a bunch of autistic shil are shouting that an alternative to the existing popular systems is not needed, everything is fine as it is. When it is obvious that the situation is the opposite.
>cares only about game popularity, ready to sacrifice everything for that goal
>shills care about game popularity immensely as that means more sales
>calls others shills when they say they have a different set of priorities
Thinking-emoji.cavepaint
>cares only about game popularity, ready to sacrifice everything for that goal
Literally modern Dnd/Warhammer/Mtg, you fricking hypocritical moron. But it's okay when big corpo do it, that's different, right?
>literal paid shills are shills, therefore I have a point
Dude, you make no sense. No wonder you can't find games of any kind of some insane deflection is your go to response the moment someone finds an obvious flaw in your reasoning.
>pointed out that corporations are already trying to increase popularity
>Dude, you make no sense.
And you are a corporation?
Yes, you make no sense.
I don't have anything against alternatives, in fact I do strongly encourage you to go and make/play alternatives if you don't like my game.
Just go and do that instead of screeching about my game or even worse trying to change it, because we like it just the way it is, thank you very much
Popularity of games has almost nothing to do with rules. Get bent.
>more people in the hobby.
Why?
>Am I too unlikeable?
>No, the game is just not popular.
Why do I, or anybody playing, want more people in the hobby?
Because you think that's the reason you can't find games, while the actual reason is you being an autistic c**t?
Dunno, that's how OP comes across.
I don't have problems finding games tho...?
So what the frick is your problem then?
I don't have a problem. That's the point. This thread is alluding to a problem that dosen't exist and really its just an excuse to shitfling at people. Especially considering how hostile OP is.
Well yeah, that's the gist I'm getting as well. As usual OP is a gay.
To find companions for the game, if it is not obvious to you, then you confirm with your own example the opinion that only dumb autists are in the hobby today, while the highly functional ones left the sinking ship a long time ago.
I have companions for my games and never have trouble finding random people to play with. Why do would I want more people playing just for the sake of more people?
To have more diversity among systems. And for this you need an audience, if there is no audience, then you will have a situation like with Dnd and Warhammer - these two systems goes to shit and that's it, game over, the alternatives are even worse, so either put up with shit, or leave the hobby altogether.
>diversity among systems
We already have that tho. I'm literally playing a different system today.
Dnd clones does not count.
>dnd clones
I'm playing frostgrave. What now.
>literally dnd D20 core mechanics
Yeah.
>it uses dice so it's a clone
K. moron.
Anon honestly it would help your argument if you decided whether you want to talk about RPGs or Wargames because honestly these are kind of two different discussions, especially if we're also to talk about mechanics
But just in last 16 months I've played or ran multiple sessions of Warhammer RPG (both fantasy and 40k), VtM, Call of Cthulhu, Trail of Cthulhu, Cthulhu Dark, Blades in the Dark, a few different homebrews and probably something else I'm forgetting about. Haven't touched DnD in 9 years. There is no problem if you just look for right people.
Then again, it should be mentioned that popularity of different games VERY heavily depends on the country
It doesn't matter whether wargames, ttpgs or collectible cards game, there is only one problem - it essentially genres of the one game with almost no alternatives. And the worst thing is that most of the existing alternatives are clones, so de facto the choice of alternatives is even smaller.
Okay, I get it, you have no idea what you're talking about
There are literally thousands of RPGs out there, most of which have very little to do with D&D. Most are niche as hell, true (although they still DO have players), but some, like CoC, WoD, WHFRPG, WH40kRPG, PbtA, SWRPG etc. all have big, healthly and active playerbases. It's not hard at all to find players for those if you just go out and look. I've had numerous campaigns for all of those, I see announcements for games in those all the time on my local RPG social media channels. D&D IS by far the most popular system among normies and tastelet morons, but if you think it is the only living system out there you are plain wrong and it's entirely a (you) problem.
As for wargames, the situation is, indeed, far worse. There still are alternatives, but GW monopoly is much stronger here and it can indeed be hard to find players for other games outside of big cities. But still, they do exist.
What makes the situation worse in case of this hobby when compared to RPGs is a hugely higher time and cost entry barrier, which makes it much, much harder to convince a group of people to try something new.
I have no knowledge about the card game market, so no comment here
>There are literally thousands of RPGs out there
If you were a real hobbyist, you would know that most systems are clones of dnd and are dead. And those that are not dead are very niche, today it is almost impossible to find a party for WoD or FFG rpg. In short, I already understood that you either a nogames troll, or you playing with "friends" in your head.
Your only criteria for them being "dead" literally is just them not having big mainstream sales numbers.
That's actually how alternatives are SUPPOSED to work, moron - there's tons of niche flavors and variants to suit niche tastes in games, so every group can get a game suited to them. Obviously that means that no one single game of those is going to rise up to D&D numbers, because each of them intentionally caters to a small market.
Stop being a homosexual.
>That's actually how alternatives are SUPPOSED to work
No, if the market has one big monopolist and a bunch of niche competitors, it is a dead market.
>moron
The irony is lost on you.
You understand that the alternative is everything having a fracture of the marketshare and everything being niche anyway. There's no version of the market where you're gonna have hundreds of competing games all selling mainstream numbers simultaneously, because nobody in that market is going to be buying and playing hundreds of different games simultaneously, except for niche autists, who again have niche and particular tastes and are a small marketshare.
>You understand that the alternative is everything having a fracture of the marketshare and everything being niche anyway.
Ok moron.
Ah yes, the market where I can only drive a BMW if I can find another group of people who also want to drive BMWs, or are willing to try my BMW.
I genuinely don't know what point you thought this was going to make.
>this is how any market works
>shown that other markets do not work like that
>rrrreeeeee, that doesn't count
Just accept L and stop projecting the situation with the ttrpgs market on other markets.
Do you have no concept permanence in your brain, and you forget every previous argument you yourself made, with each new post?
The car market is inherently different because none of the issues you're trying to address in tabletop games can be applied to them. Everyone can have a different car brand. I don't need my friends to drive a Ford in order for me to be able to drive a Ford. The market can be as fractured as it wants to be (even so, the graph you posted shows one massively dominant brand, one less dominant but still big brand, and then a series of smaller ones with comparatively small marketshares, which is basically the TTRPG market lol. so this example goes against your own argument on two levels).
The reason why you can't have hundreds of different TTRPGs all enjoying the numbers that, say, D&D has right now, is because the number of people in the market who would buy and play more than one or two systems are very niche and a small part of the market. A majority of people will buy and play what is popular, or what their friends are playing.
It's not fricking rocket science, dude.
Wow, someone's ego was hurt. In any case, the size of the market determines its popularity and chances of survival, everything else is just cope.
>In any case, the size of the market determines its popularity and chances of survival, everything else is just cope.
It's like talking to a chatbot at this point, but one of the old ones, that forgets what all the previous messages were.
You're clearly a zoomer, you're too young to have this level of dementia.
You know, I thought you were a troll at first, but I was wrong, you're really stupid and that's why you have trouble learning new things, and that's why you're afraid that your only way of socializing will be taken away from you. Relax, the market will be alive for at least another 20 years (if nothing dramatic happens) and this thread won't change anything, you'll still have dnd and warhammer to socialize and nothing will replace them. Although you never know when another genius will come up with something that will make your favorite toys obsolete and unpopular. Although I do not think that this will happen with ttrpgs, the chance is too small, but the transition of everyone to virtual tables is another matter.
>and that's why you're afraid that your only way of socializing will be taken away from you. Relax, the market will be alive for at least another 20 years
Did you confuse me for someone else? I'm the one saying the market is fine, and that I'm happy with it and my autist games. You're the one complaining about the market's status quo lol (I'm assuming you're still the OP)
And just in case you think what I'm saying is that the TTRPG marketshare can't be split equally between hundreds of different games - what I'm saying actually is that's the ONLY version of events that can be possible, without one game dominating the market (which apparently is what you don't want).
What I'm saying is that, for example, if the TTRPG market has a million potential customers, there's no version of that market where hundreds of different games will be bought by all of those customers. Some customers might buy several games, but in general, there's going to be a divide between the games, based on who bought which game.
You see, you want there to be a big variety of different games that suit different tastes, but ALSO they should have as much players as the biggest games have right now. That's literally never going to happen. There's no outcome to this where you can have a game suited to your specific interests, that will also have as much of an active playerbase as 5e, or PF or frick even CoC or Shadowrun have right now. You're still going to have to go out of your way to hunt for people who play your game of choice, or you're still going to have to be the guy to introduce that particular game to your gaming group.
In short, OP is a brain-dead moron.
the TTRPG market has at least two competing big names, it's not even a case of one big monopolist.
You are wrong.
Those aren't sales numbers, you absolute moron. Brand recognition isn't sales.
Marvel is the most recognizable brand name in comics, and their sales have been in the toilet for over a decade. Right now they're only maintaining any mainstream recognition from movies.
D&D is a name that everyone is kind of aware of, and most of the people who know it, know it without ever buying any of the books or actually playing it.
There have been several documented periods when Pathfinder was literally outselling D&D, you moron.
If you think that Pathfinder is an alternative to Dnd, then only moron here is you.
You're changing your entire point constantly lol
>There is only one big game monopolizing the market
>No there isn't
>Well, the other big games aren't different enough
Wow, it's almost as if games with the same commonly accepted lowest-common-denominator systems have the most broad appeal and end up being the ones that sell well in the mainstream, while niche games with particular appeal stay in niche markets.
Damn, that's insane
plenty of alternatives, rather.
>but if you want a wide audience
where do you think you are? nobody here wants this
Besides, there's literally no shortage of streamlined normie-friendly TTRPG/wargame rulesets. It's just that none of them want to play those, because they don't have the big brand name attached, and the clout of playing the big brand name is literally the only appeal normies would have in playing such games.
There burden is not on us, it's on them for being homosexuals who want the thing, but they want it to be completely different from what it is, and they refuse to try a different thing that already is that, because it's not the thing.
>nobody here wants this
But at the same time tg play only the most mainstream crap ever, while threads about anything that isn't Dnd/Warhammer/Mtg are pretty much dead and very rarely goes in bumplimite before dying. Someone is clearly a lying hypocrite.
There's plenty of niche games with dedicated one-off threads and generals on /tg/ literally right now.
You mean the newer niche games have more niche activity in the threads, whereas the more popular established legacy ones have more overlap between a large group of people?? No fricking way.
I can play 40k without wanting other homosexuals to play 40k. It's really not complicated.
>The reason why so few people like tabletop RPGs and wargames is simple - too primitive basic mechanics and too many special rules.
Whut?
>if you want a wide audience, you have to have a game that attracts attention with its core mechanics with almost no addition of special rules.
Da fuq?
The only way this bs makes any kind of sense is if your only frame of reference is vidya. You, sir, have no gaems.
ITT:
>OP rails against the big most popular normie games, and bemoans there being no viable alternatives
>His only reasoning for thinnking there are no alternatives is because those alternatives aren't as popular as the normie games
OP is literally just a normie who wants to simultaneously rant against the mainstream, while not wanting to play anything that isn't mainstream.
Dude single-handedly demonstrates exactly the reason why gatekeeping is good.
It's called mainstream product can't satisfy my taste, I want something other. More specifically, I hate HP blobs, I want a system without it, I want a system in which survival is based on correct defensive actions, and not simple tanking hits. Name how many live systems (meaning systems for which players can actually be found) fit this criteria?
>I want my specific taste to be satisfied, but also I want it to appeal to everyone else so I can find players
You know what actual fa/tg/uys and people generally into the hobby do? They recruit local fa/tg/uys to try new systems with them. Constantly. All the time. Unless you're asking normies, there are always neckbeards who are up for trying new systems.
You are basically blaming /tg/ and the entire industry for you having a massive social skill issue.
>would you make things less fun for more popularity?
as you said, i like it this way, why tf would I do that. i can play kitchen-table with friends forever, i don't need the game dumbed down to increase mass appeal
The most popular games are those that are easy to learn, hard to master. And the problem with modern ttrpgs and wargames is that they are difficult to learn, but there nothing to master.
right but who is that hurting? modern ttrpgs and wargames have their market, even if most of it troons and gays. oldgays get their autist games.
i think your saying the oldgays should change their autist games to appeal to the troons, but why would they want to do that? whats in it for them?
There are plenty of games with concise rules. Warmachine was tournament focused and played like it.
Lots of wargamers don’t want that though. They want an excuse to paint and show up at the shop to move some models around. The notion that you would try to win by using strategy is abhorrent to them. That’s why the word waacgay exists.
I personally think that’s moronic and prefer the concise rule sets with some semblance of balance, but I also see why they want what they want.
No.
>too primitive basic mechanics
>I know autistic people like it
HUH
Describe a non-primitive mechanic. Be specific.