There is no reason to ever back the Legion. House vs NCR vs Independent is debatable, sure, but the Legion offers nothing. It's better at stamping out low-level bandits, but that is the only thing it has going for it. Its morality is insane, and it is guaranteed to collapse into even worse chaos the second Caesar dies, even if you do cure him.
There is no reason to ever back the Legion.
This phonograph "reads" a rock’s rough surface and transforms it into beautiful ambient music pic.twitter.com/PYDzYsWWf8— Surreal Videos (@SurrealVideos) March 3, 2023
I like their aesthetics, also crucifying Benny is fun
If people would just admit this from the beginning instead of going into politics and philosophy and other shit I would be cool
I just want to play a straightforward evil hedonistic grug raider type, Legion does nothing for me.
Yeah but that’s my point you don’t care about any of the other shit you just want to have fun. Which is rare for people to say there always has to be some grand justification
I'm not the other guy.
But you get what I mean right?
I get what you mean but Legion is still an extremely ideologically driven faction and I just want to unga and bunga.
Anyone who gets their political philosophy from a video game can't be helped. Don't get me wrong, New Vegas's really well written but y'know... books exist
The Legion is a pretty good filter for those who like easy “solutions” without thinking ahead and take it at face value because “he keeps bandits in check” when his crew are basically bandits themselves.
When you’re the biggest raiders on the block the others just seem paltry in comparison. There really is no difference between Fiends and CLs outside numbers.
>Its morality is insane
Wym why? They literally enslave and oppress women
>that thing that civilizations did for literally all of history is bad because uhhhh...
They only did it because farming and doing manual labor with machinery sucked shit. But In a world like fallout it makes sense slavery returned is it right no but it makes sense
>In a world like fallout it makes sense slavery returned
People in Fallout have pre-war world knowledge and resources. Bringing back slavery doesn't make sense beyond wanting to powertrip.
>pre-war world knowledge
We know how to make a tractor but don’t have the materials or tools
How are you going to extract them quickly and efficiently without machinery the NCR can because there was a lot of tech leftover from before the war plus the stability they created ensures that people can scrounge around old libraries and ruins looking for books and broken down machines that’s not the case for Arizona before Caesar it was a shithole with marauding tribes and raider gangs causing havoc
>bringing back slavery makes no sense
>siege enemy city
>all these prisoners
>Anon thinks slavery is wrong so you have to kill them all
Anon the point of slavery is to keep freshly captured prisoners/dissenters alive and make use of them. Not everyone is gonna regime change so you have to make use of dissenters somehow. What would you propose?
>What would you propose?
Exile? All though that comes with the risk of them rallying together and coming back seeking revenge down the line after amassing strength and power.
Slavery is at the very least the lessor of evils and the most pragmatic choice in a post apocalyptic situation to what you would have to do with prisoners. You're putting them to work instead of killing them, and perhaps them being alive you can try to keep offering them a chance to join or continue subservience. If you just keep them locked up it's a waste of resources.
It's not like living into a pre-Legion territory was much better. Enjoy waking up one day and being raided, having your women raped and your head on a spike because some savage tribe decided to take a detour over your town. Legion are ruthless but at least have a set of rules there unify a bunch of feral factions into a cohesive militaristic society. It is without doubt, and Caesar himself said so, that they will be much less repressive once they are no more in conquest mode
His speech about Hegelian dialectic's got me, no fucking idea what he was talking about but it sounded smart so I had to help him
I'm a socratic method man myself
Larper gays who think its better to use fucking spears than guns
Retards who think its a good idea to copy the same country that destroyed the world, also doomed to collapse due to their overexpansion and corruption
Reddit Elon Musk faction
The patricians and the thinking mans faction, assuming direct control yourself and being your own king rather than kneeling to and serving others.
>assuming direct control yourself and being your own king
Wym that's literally what happens (as long as you don't be a tard and blow up the Securitron army dooming the Mojave to anarchy in the process)
Yes Man is so fucking gay
>yeah we've got all these factions with unique advantages and disadvantages and also this Mary Sue CYOA fanfic ending where you can pretend there are no downsides at all because you make up your own utopia
>N-NO YOU CAN'T JUST CHOOSE THE BEST OPTION YOU HAVE TO PICK ONE OF MY SHITTY FACTIONS WITH NO FUTURE
No thanks bro!
>THE BEST OPTION
That's my point tho. Why does a game that pretends to be some gritty political masterpiece have a 'best option' where all problems are solved through fantasy magic? Why even include the other factions at all?
Especially since the Independent route is the most boring unfinished piece of shit to actually play through. Ulysses literally doesn't even have dialogue if you go Yes Man and the entire DLC (which is built up as the ideological climax of the entire story) bugs out and breaks if you pick it.
It's like it was tacked on as an afterthought to appeal to armchair political scientists who get upset when they have to compromise with other factions.
>Ulysses literally doesn't even have dialogue if you go Yes Man
>"You speak for the families of New Vegas"
jesas... m-maybe we can twist this to mean more than those literal dipshits... but the entirety of the Free Economic Zone of New Vegas...
But Ulysses does ultimately give you the answer at the end, and even NCR (hooooly cope) is viable
That's what he's saying, it's the best option with no downsides. It's boring
>trusting a robot that literally says that it is "configuring itself to have more sentience" right after you win the area for it
lmao might as well sell yourself to musk at that point instead of getting thrown off the dam
Unfathomably based. I just hate how yes man is the supposed “backup faction.” Why is choosing to run the show by myself meant to be some kind of meme choice? The other options all have serious flaws, meanwhile my courier has 100 intelligence and speech, literally couldn’t ask for a better leader of the wasteland. Also Housefags are the worst, imagine actually believing his bullshit.
>Dude but if you go West, how can you go East lmao? [Speech 100/100]
Cool "boss" bro.
>Snipe him with my anti material rifle while wearing my NCR ranger outfit
Heh nothing personal Legiontard
>Somehow loses the Dam anyway
>Somehow loses the Mojave
>Legion agents actually infiltrated the infrastructure and military apparatus of the NCR
A faction of gigachads with big mechetes outsmarting wannabe tacticool tards, how embarassing
>NCR constantly half-assing the Mojave campaign, putting in politicians where they should be putting in strategists, letting lobbyists divert resources away to their own private ventures, and underfunding the war effort.
>Legion doing everything right strategically to abuse the advantages they have through the Frumentarii's various plots, demoralization campaigns, and preying on the NCR's supply lines being spread thin
>Despite this the Legion needs 4 years to get a victory close enough that the whim of a single gigachad can completely change the outcome.
Supporting the NCR may be supporting a thoroughly corrupt oligarchy, but the Legion is doomed to fail.
>You are winning and defeating the largest threat of all the west coast, that had access to all the cool California bases pre war military gear, and pretty much compromised their logistics and infrastructure in the whole region... but you are winning too slowly ahah
Jesus Christ what a sad cope
>your entire society and government revolves around one mans ideas of politics and philosophy
>No one really understands it but him and just thinks the whole thing is might makes right
>the second he dies the whole thing falls apart and take everything he built with him making the whole endeavor pointless
The NCRs issues can be fixed with some simple reforms the Legions are inherent in its very foundation by the sheer fact that without Caesar the legion can’t exist
>le Caesar die cope
>The NCRs issues can be fixed with some simple reforms
I have never seen anyone argue that the Legion will survive Caesar's death.
Caesar's life only matters to lead the transition into the State he envisioned after taking New Vegas. The Legion will always survive regardless
>And who will lead them exactly?
1. A scarred retard who see every problem as a nail to be hammered
Or 2. The sneaky coward that can’t face his that relies solely on trickery and subterfuge
Neither of which understand anything Caesar’s ideals or philosophy
>this dude that hates Caesar and the Legion is totally right!
Joshua doesn't seem to hate them to the same extent Caesar hates Joshua
He does, but he acknowledges that he must let go of it if he wishes to find peace which if have him spare Salt-upon-wounds he does. Caesar on the other hand hates Josh but is also terrified of him for obvious reasons
>this dude that knew Caesar before he was even Caesar and knows him better than anyone else and helped make the Legion what it is, is totally right!
Joshua is purely theorycrafting, he doesn't know the Legion better than Caesar, and the ending states that eith a Legion victory the Legion remains united regardless of its leader
The rest is copes
Do you know who Graham is? Or are you being retardedly obtuse for the sake of the argument. Because Graham knows the Legion he was one of its founding members and first legate. He conquered a majority of the 86 tribes that make up the Legion and was a close friend and confidant to Edward. He would absolutely know the ins and outs of how the legion functions and operates. He is one of the only people that can make an accurate prediction of what would happen to the Legion without Caesar
>Do you know who Graham is?
I do. Do you know why Caesar wants to take New Vegas and what are his plans for the Legion? Because if you weren't a Redditard you would also know that Caesar has planned way ahead for the Legion to outlive him and change into a proper empire after having its Rome
>Caesar has a plan and it will work because...
>It just will! Okay?
They appointed the wrong Caesar
why is Caesar mogged by everyone he keeps at his side?
SPECIAL stats arent canon
Oh you mean the Dialectics shit where he thinks that conquering an entire region will transform the legion from an army of nomadic tribals into a standing military nation? Yes I’ve heard about it but the issue with that is well, what is a military nation with no enemy? The Legion needs to keep fighting it can never rest on its laurels it must keep expanding or it will die. And as for Caesar no he didn’t you know why because he can’t Caesar is a massive narcissist that thinks himself on the level of the Roman Emperors of old. He cannot imagine a world without himself and so leaves the legion with a dark fate. The only people who could succeed Caesar realistically are Lanius or Vulpes which is a problem because.
1. Lanius has no mind for anything outside of leading troops and fighting
2. Vulpes while being more intelligent that Lanius is a coward he must do everything through underhanded tactics and subterfuge
But please tell me how I’m wrong and how the mighty Edward Sallow thought of how to keep his empire alive after his death
bro he was Ceasars top guy at one point, he'd know if the Legion would collapse or not when Ceasar dies. The Legion might not collapse but only if Ceasar survives NV and grooms the Courier to be his successor
Not a cope the game both shows and says that once Caesars gone the legion collapses. Did you even play NV or do you only know about it from browsing r/fallout
>Not a cope the game both shows and says that once Caesars gone the legion collapses
No, it doesn't, the ending where Lanius takes over means the Legion remains a large warband, that's explained as literal alternative ending
>Did you even play NV or do you only know about it from browsing r/fallout
Ironic considering "Legion dies when Caesar dies" is a r/fallout meme by low attention span redditors that never actually played the Legion route
> No, it doesn't, the ending where Lanius takes over means the Legion remains a large warband,
Which still collapses because Lanius is a retarded savage Caesar picked to replace Graham because he’s big, strong and would follow anything he’d say, he has no idea how to govern or do anything that isn’t leading troops or killing
>Ironic considering "Legion dies when Caesar dies" is a r/fallout meme by low attention span redditors that never
actually played the Legion route
Really? I wouldn’t know i don’t use Reddit but I suppose that’s something we don’t have in common
The Legion is basically a tiny puppy nipping at the leg of a vastly bigger dog. The moment the NCR takes the Legion seriously instead of thinking of them as just a particularly rowdy gang of bandits, The Legion's advance will be stopped in it's tracks, and it's inability to do anything other than pillage and conquer will devour it from within.
>The gloves will come off, 2 more weeks!
>Entire game literally every army commander is bitching that the politicians back home aren't taking things seriously enough
The Legion relies on Snowballing, and the fact that it's taken them this long to take Hoover demonstrates that they can't snowball against the NCR.
And how could they, when brahmin barons hoard equipment and force Kimball to spread his forces thin to protect their trade interests
NCR can't even maintain their own territories from fiends or keep their own prisoners from taking over. The first battle was a pyrrhic vicotory and were destined to lose if not for the walkimg plot device that is the courier
>is literally the runner-up compared to Joshua
>practically everyone who's been around him, even Caesar, knows that he's not much good for anything except being a walking blender and would be an awful leader for the Legion
>his le epic "Blade Of The East" isn't a real sword, just a sharpened car bumper strapped to a pipe, despite having literally forged-from-scratch armor
Why anyone likes this gay is beyond me.
>Shitsidian be like 'nooooo!!!! You can't just make a White male!!! Make your character diverse and ROLEPLAY'
>ok imma join the Rome dudes
>NOOOOOO They're EVIL. Please no joining!!!!
>But the roleplay?
>Not like that!!!!!
Wtf are you on about schizo? You can join and complete the game with the legion. It’s just obviously a dick move.
He’s probably the same shit skin that always posting Fallout bait threads
>Saves the Mojave and turns it into the capital of the largest empire of the known world
You literally have no idea? Maybe kids never played it when it came out cause they were too young but Avellone went on a fucking raging cuntmode because 'you can't join the White slavers'
The entire DLC was an attempt to shit on the legion
They still made a fully fleshed out faction which you can complete the game with. If you want an example of a moral choice which you obviously aren’t supposed to pick then look at the evil capitalists in Outer Worlds. At least the legion had some nuance to them despite being a shitty choice.
No they didn't
It was the only faction they lstf to last because they felt nobody would join it
>lets have a post-apocalyptic game
>in a setting thats already a lifeless desert irl
>and canonically no nukes hit it so its just irl vegas with broken windows everywhere
Legion is the best, most productive and most powerful faction. Caesar understood that an individualistic society led by a technocrat or an oligarchy of "elite" with a puppet larping as democratically elected leader is bound to fail in the new world. A culturally unified society that doesn't rely on scavenging chems and ammo from the old world is the only way to rebuild a stable empire
You don't have a cause in nurturing humanity when you view human nature as the basic survival of farm animals; What's the point of survival without life.
The flaws of democracy comes from the same premise as yours, only taking it's first steps before the inevitable.
Fallout shows that there is a way forward where men can live in prosperity without being shadowed by the mistakes of the past, and its answers were never to condemn human choice. Each protagonist's story showed the answer at every end.
Men change through the roads they follow, and you must be willing to walk, even if alone, through new paths into better horizons.
The opposite, when humans aren't farm animals, they engage in a collectivist society. Each single Legion community works for their own betterment and to benefit of the State, rather than in competition to a conglomerate of disjointed settlements tied together by the actions of trading private companies in an economic system designed purely to exploit cheap labour and in a country where regulations are controlled by brahmin barons.
I care little for the flaws of democracy or even what type of government those are, because there's no single democratic system in Fallout. You can't tell what the Legion will evolve into from warband with villages to the largest empire of new America, but you can tell an individualistic society controlled by lobbyists and a silly technocrat treating a nation like a casino and its citizens as players to control through their rivalries are utterly retarded ideas bound to fail
how do you reliably get throwing spears?
The only thing I don’t like about the Legion is that they’re anti-technology for some reason.
The only faction that is baffling to choose is NCR: you'd condemn the future to a second Great War. House is somewhat bad because it props up this evil, but Independant is dumb in isolation as a "delay the answer" option. Out of all these Legion is the best, in isolation (House with enlightened Courier), as it answers all questions of the Great War and pre-war America inasmuch as a forcedly united nation that is disdainful of prosperity (idolising of sacrifice, collectivism) hence the inevitable technology and consumerism it leads to.
Neither NCR nor House by themselves have such an answer; and even with the answer, NCR is a massive nation that isn't in the Mojave and already developed therefore almost if not certainly impossible to change from the geopolitical perspective of the Courier.
Shut up gay.
i just like the legion because i hate women
There we go again some fucking honesty, no desperate justification, no mental gymnast, no waxing on about politics and philosophy just a simple answer
>hey FUCKER, we just annihilated this entire town, show us some fucking respect
>hey FUCKER, you're pissing me off, I'm killing you. haha, just fucking with ya
Caesar Salad and his lackeys are such antagonizing pricks that I don't see how anyone walks out of his tent thinking "yeah I want to help these guys." You get the Platinum Chip and everyone wants to be your friend, but these larpers can't shut their fucking mouths
I like the enclave
I nuked em both in LR
What's exactly so bad about the NCR
A shitty corrupt political entity ruled by political dynasties pretending to be democratic is like a pretty basic latin american republic. Would you rather have a bunch of insane larpers pretending to be romans instead
>Would you rather have a bunch of insane larpers pretending to be romans instead
I'd rather neither, just cause one side is ass doesn't mean the other is any better
garden gnome oligarchy is the worst form of government
Collectivist dictatorship is better even irl
Baitfags still seething
Imagine owning your own little quiet spot of the Wasteland, been in your family for generations and you made a lucrative business out of the resources available there.
Now imagine the NCR rolls up, tells you this is their land now and you need to pay a hefty tax aka rent and you also need to provide them with resources for FREE.
Now imagine you can't pay the tax and tribute, the NCR will just take control of your land and tell you to fuck off and kill you if you don't.
That's life under the NCR. The Legion being what it is, at least they'd let you continue doing whatever the fuck you're doing.
>let you continue what you are doing
do retards really think the legion also won't ask for supplies or manpower to throw into their meat grinders, or hand out severe punishment for not meeting demands
Most people in the game actually prefer Legion overlordship rather than NCR, the Legion does ask for a tax but according to some Legion residents, they just ask for a war tribute and fuck off to their next conquest. They are more concerned with getting all the way East than making sure the communities they've integrated are resource depots. They just want the basic necessities to keep going and then they leave you alone.
So what's the catch?
no women allowed
I asked for what catch is, not for more pros
Living under Legion authority which probably entails supplying them, boys get indoctrinated, probably incidents of rape
>So what's the catch?
The catch is you are a plebian, a resource for the state and have few rights, you probably can be levied at anytime or they could demand tribute.
the NCR and Legion are both shit if you value freedom but if you value security and a functional government/state apparatus the Legion has the NCR beat by a fucking mile.
>NOOOO NOT THE SLAVERY IN MY POST APOCALYPSE
>LE HATE WOMYN
The Redditors flocked in, I see
Well duhh. Legion is the edgelord choice, everyone knows that.
has any Yesfag thought about what happens to Vegas when the Yesman courier dies? curious on your theories
Yes. My courier is in his 20’s and lives to be at least 80. That’s at least 50 years of impeccable leadership during which time my courier will have rebuilt large amounts of civilisation in the Mohave using his protagonist powers. That’s more than enough time to get a functioning government up and running and either groom a successor or establish some form of democracy. Simple.
ah yes doom to fail before it begins.
I stated two options but you weirdos just have to jump down my throat at the mere mention of the word democracy…
I was just asking for clarification yo
Fair enough. My logic is essentially that the player character is so ridiculously overpowered that you could solve all of the Mojave’s problems within weeks. You are the only person intelligent enough to pick up all of these stimpacks and other loot that has been lying around for 2 centuries. Everyone else is a literal retard in the fallout universe. I know that’s going off video game logic but it is what it is.
but after all that where do you see it being once your guy is dead and gone? that's why I asked just an ncr2 or something else?
so your goal is to be ncr2?
Shit, The Courier should either groom some random guy to be his successor or establish a monarchy and have a kid
With the NCR and legion obliterated by the robot army the mojave returns to a complete wasteland void of any human inhabitation. The only known life are monsters and the remnants of a robot army continuously at war until the last remaining bot shuts down.
This is unironically true
Legion is for edgelords and tribal roleplaying
Similarly NCR is for normies and Sgarden gnomes
House and Yes-Man are the only right answers
Mr. House/Yes Man are the best choices for the Mohave.
>Boot the NCR back with a fat reality check to stop expanding and work on solving their own corruption and self improvement
>Boot the Legion back with a fat reality check to infight and hopefully collapse on itself as it's just a LARPing raider gang.
>Mohave goes back to business in a better state than it formerly was before factions that had no business getting involved got involved.
This but you also nuke both of them so their permanently BTFO and you don't have to worry about them coming back
Based based based.
Also you‘ve got access to Big MT technology which will no doubt rapidly turn the Mojave/New Vegas into a powerful independent state. NCR and Legion will stay bootyblasted.
Don’t forget to nuke both of them at the end of Lonesome Road.
I patrol the Mojave wearing my NCR Bandoleer Trooper armor, with All American rifle
Desert Ranger with Medicine Stick for me
The real list
4chan edge lord larpers, The kind of person who unironically wishes Hitler won WW2 and has switched religions at least 5 times because 4chan told him that Catholics or Pagans or whatever are now cringe.
Lefty 4chan LGBTQ+ gays. The kind of retard who believes Jan 6th was attempted coup, would report you to HR if they actually had a job instead of spending all day on twitter.
Reddit, The bog standard the NPC the HECKIN SCIENCE guy this guy was wearing a Fedora in 2010 probably listens to Sargon of Akkad.
Egotistical gay, The kinda person that believe they're smarter than everyone else and deserves to be in charge despite the fact they still live with their parents at age 30.
You know the NCR doesn’t like gays right? In fact the Legion being based on Rome is really into ass play
I mean I mostly agree but you gotta choose something unless you want to just play half the game and then stop.
The Legion should've offered the player his own harem and make him a Lord/Landowner, a feudal Lord under Caesar, it really doesn't take much to make it plausible
>"Look, Courier, you served me well and you have a good head on your shoulders"
>"Im going to give you a position of power becouse, really, im surrounded by shitheads and i literally don't have anything better"
It doesn't take much braincells to make a good reward from an "evil" faction, just make the player "Part of the team" instead of an outsider
What was the ending slide for the Legion? "Here's a gold coin, now get the fuck out"?
I always took the coin as the implication the courier became key member of the Legion
I took it as an "I owe you one" token, a "Get out of Jail Free" card, you can probably order around grunts and some higher ups won't start shit if you don't but it doesn't hold much power beyond that
It’s not just one coin though it’s a whole new set for the legion’s currency not to mention the courier being on the coin is symbolic. The only people on the legion currency are Bill Calhoun, Joshua Graham (yes even after the burning), and Caesar himself the founders of the legion. By putting the Courier on the coins it’s not just showing gratitude it’s shows that are now big shit in the Legion
a lot of shit mainly on the legion side was cut, thats why NCR in comparison has so much shit. parts of colorado itself were meant to be explorable too
deus vult, gay. you're the next to hang you fucking degenerate.
legion is just for fun evil melee/unarmed builds. a true hardcore rper will play a proper legion soldier, where you aren't allowed to use stimpaks, chems, or alcohol
>There is no reason to ever back the Legion.
For a fun evil playthrough?
I agree, but most people wouldn’t call that a good enough reason. But fuck em you know