This game pisses me of. It's that corny morality and that homosexualness that coats every line of dialogue that I can't stand. It's that performative and disingenuous goodness that lots of people affect when they want to look pious and that some of them, no doubt, are bound to have interiorized (until shit hits the fan).
I give it a 1/10 because at least it's kind of clever.
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To you all morality is "corny and homosexual" and all goodness is "performative and disingenuous" so you're not really saying anything novel here.
It took me way too long to realize that an old friend of mine maybe isn’t just a little jaded or cynical but instead might not have working mirror neurons
op btfo
Nah it is in fact disingenuous because anyone that ACTUALLY believed those thing wouldn't make a game like this.
It's entirely performative by Toby, imagine a vegan making an interactive zoo which tempts you and allows you to kill animals to test your compassion towards them, no real vegan would actually want to bring animals in harm's way like that, but anyone else who made such a thing would be a hypocrite for making the thing that allows people to kill animals in the first place while chiding people for killing animals. It's standard fare "holier than thou" virtue signaling cynical millennial shit.
Have you considered maybe that Toby Fox is not actually trying to influence Undertale players not to kill video game characters and there is a bit more nuance to the story than this
He expects players to consider his characters as real people in order to test their morals and get judged by the game yet he himself considers them as nothing more than playthings and code, he is a hypocrite.
No he doesn't. That would be insane and delusional. The game is actually a commentary about how fricked up it'd be if you could reload saves in real life. That's it.
No it's not, because reloading saves in real life shouldn't have to work the way it does in his game.
Then
is wrong and the game is some post ironic meta wankery cricus and not a paragon of morality and goodness, glad we agree.
> reloading saves in real life shouldn't have to work the way it does in his game.
Okay, but it works in Undertale roughly the same way it works in any other video game. That is the point. It's because in most games savingis just a system feature and nobody cares about it. The gimmick in Undertale is that it becomes a core part of the game mechanics. Toby asks what it would be like if more thought were put into this aspect of games and the answer is that it would be pretty fricked up. Also I dunno how would you choose to save-load IRL in any way that would both confer video game style advantages and also not turn you into a callous psychopath over time
I wouldn't say that. Undertale's a pretty straightforward and sincere game about how friendship and connections are wonderful things and that living without them is a miserable and cold existance.
I'd also argue that it's a bit of a commentary on how trying to squeeze all content of a game can be kind of a shitty way of playing it, with how intentionally unfun and dull Genocide is, and if it really is even fun to get stuff like repeating every single possible combination of actions just for the sake of seeing what happens. That's just my opinion and the Sans fight actually goes against that a bit so eh.
I think it's even more straightforward than this. It's a mirror of that one Rick and Morty episode where Morty gets a device that can save and load real life. It's simply about how doing this can turn you into an butthole - but why would you care? You can just reverse it all - those people might as well not be real. The metanarrative of the player goes neutral run -> use gathered information to do perfect pacifist run -> either do the right thing and stop playing forever OR do the fricked up thing and play genocide for the final Sans boss fight. If you could behave this way in real life it'd be kinda fricked up wouldn't it
>He expects players to consider his characters as real people in order to test their morals
He is not doing that. You are at no point accused or called immoral by the game. Characters react to your actions, because of fricking course they do. NPCs in GTA scream and run around when you start shooting into them, doesn't mean the game is testing your morals. At no point the player is told to consider the characters real people.
>yet he himself considers them as nothing more than playthings and code, he is a hypocrite
Because that's what they are. How are you being judged? Toby went out of his way to code unique outcomes for every combination of major NPC kills and create tons of reactive content to each of their deaths, he made an entirely new route with unique content for Genocide and you insist he's judging you negatively for doing it?
>test their morals and get judged by the game
you made that up
Characters in the game judge (You) (the player) for treating the characters as nothing but video game characters and code i.e. the game judges the player for playing it.
No argument.
post examples
>Characters in the game judge (You) (the player) for treating the characters as nothing but video game characters and code i.e. the game judges the player for playing it.
No. They do not.
You have not played Undertale.
Other than Chara, none of the characters in the game ever judge the player. They judge Frisk and Frisk's actions, which is their prerogative. Only two characters ever perceive you acting through Frisk, and Sans is more trying to make you act in a way that helps him more than he's actually judging you. He just wants you to stop, and has taken numerous angles to try to do so. Insult is his final gesture, as you have spurned any attempt at allure.
And the worst judgement Chara ever gives is "you've got some strange tastes" if you do Genocide twice. Chara does not care for repetition.
>Toby is trying to force me to be nice, because he's a pacifism activist and trying to brainwash me. but here's my epic argument that makes him a hypocrite of what I imagined him to be
holy schizo
>Comfy, corny and chill game made by one dev that caters to a particular community of nerds and was extremely successful at it, nailing the tone and writing of the game
Toby Fox is having his OSTs played by orchestras in concert halls and is meeting by all of his childhood dream japanese developpers. Do you think he cares that an anon on Ganker is seething about disingenuous goodness ?
And blacks are millionares by acting like Black folk on screen? What's your point?
>game tells you to be nice to people and make friends
>this makes anon seethe
lol
It tells you not to fight monsters that attack you.
it doesnt tell you that
When you literally have the power to escape death and rewind time, you have no excuse for killing people. The only reason you could have for doing that is because you want to see what happens. And how can you still claim the moral higher ground if you choose to kill when you don't have to?
That is only told after. It's not an information that is available from the very beginning. It's cheap.
It's a secret test of character. A test doesn't work if the subject is in on it.
Then the game shouldn't be guilty tripping me for making my own choices. No, I am not talking about characters reacting to violence, It's dialogues like flowey telling you "te hee you killed toriel didn't you? I know what you did" that ruins it by making it cheesy.
>the game shouldn't be guilty tripping me
Boohoo. You're a bad person and a cuck. Frick off.
>I am a good person because I befriended a race of child murderers
Yeah. It's called paying taxes and letting your mum do abortion after I frick her every night
to be fair humanity is also guilty of infanticide
>you mustn't have friends
But enough about humanity.
Flowey is there to lean on the meta elements and clue you in. He literally says something to the effect of "oh if only there was some way to undo it~" to make you think about loading your save and making things right.
Then he laughs at you if you do that, because it was literally his power before it was yours.
>the villain fricks with me
>how could the dev do this?
Yeah and real life is also a secret test of character so let me kill you and steal all your shit and when you die you'll find out you had the option to rewind time and escape death all along so you're a monster if you fight back to my attempts to kill you and steal all your shit
I mean that's basically what religion is. A secret test of your moral character
>It's not an information that is available from the very beginning
Literally in the fricking demo.
And the "combat tutorial", followed by the most comically non-threatening enemy very blatantly winks at the player to go for the pacifist run.
And if you kill Toriel and then try resetting, Flowey just openly tells you the game's Big Twist.
Y'know, in case the player is a total moron.
They are talking about the meta part, not the actual routes
>the meta part
Save/Load mechanics are in-universe abilities.
>When you literally have the power to escape death and rewind time, you have no excuse for killing people.
>That is only told after. It's not an information that is available from the very beginning.
I was replying to this. Player, in-universe, is invulnerable. This information is, in fact, available from the very beginning, making ...5315 anon wrong.
>That would only happen though if in case the player specifically played the demo or reseted the game. It's an exception
You always go through dummy fight with Toriel telling you, you don't have to actually fight.
You always meet Whimsun and Froggits, including one of them telling you about spare mechanics.
Toriel bossfight has her divert her projectiles away from you if you are damaged beyond certain threshold.
Game's intentions are clear as day and the tone is sad-sacharine to the nauseating levels.
Not seeing what it all means is like starting MGS for the first time, seeing cameras/enemy fields of views/codec calls explaining you how stealth works and still getting surprised that it's a stealth game. After you almost beat it.
That would only happen though if in case the player specifically played the demo or reseted the game. It's an exception
not him but its really not obvious. If you weren't playing the demo or didn't reset after beating toriel (which you would only do if you knew about the pacifist run anyway, and therefore flowey telling you wouldn't be news to you) you'd just assume that toriel is one of the enemies you needed to beat and just go on your way after killing her.
You'd just assume that, like every other jrpg, theres some selections that work on some enemies and don't work on others, such as bosses, and that the mercy option is one of them.
Status effects and running away for example, in other jrpgs.
>which you would only do if you knew about the pacifist run anyway
"the RPG where no one has to die"
>you'd just assume that toriel is one of the enemies you needed to beat and just go on your way after killing her
"it's not like you can go back and change it now"
>You'd just assume that, like every other jrpg
see snarky bullet point n°1
uhh ackchewually, not everyone would watch the trailer or read the steam description for a game they've never heard of
Then why the frick are they playing
Also, I love the "like every other jrpg" bit because anyone who has played the tiniest amount of jrpgs could instantly infer what the game was about as soon as the Dummy tutorial. It's, ironically, people who have never played jrpgs in their lives who struggle with the mercy concept and feel like they were suckerpunched for choosing to fight.
>a random fricking tagline that even if you by some chance read and studied and didnt just glance over, if you even saw it at all, you are supposed to treat like a gameplay manual
I have played plenty of jrpgs, literally none of them work like this you dumbass. Unlike you, I actually explained how common elements from other jrps would betray the fact that you're supposed to spam an action that is seemingly doing nothing and doesn't seem to working for this enemy, and not just assume that some actions AGAIN, like status effects or running away, don't work on bosses and attack like every other jrpg ever. You are the one that probably hasn't played any other jrpgs which is why you have no clue what I'm talking about.
>literally none of them work like this you dumbass
I didn't say they work like this. I said if you played them then it should be easy to figure out what this one is trying to pull.
Unless you're moronic, I guess.
The natural order people are meant to experience undertale is neutral -> pacifist -> genocide. Usually people will frick up their first run, I know I did, just because they didn't know the trick to save Undyne or Toriel. In the ending Sans will explain this to you. The Toriel reset thing won't get everyone but the thought process that happened to me and seemingly many other players goes something like this:
> Oh, just spamming MERCY doesn't work. I need to do something else.
> Hmm, maybe if I weaken her a bit...
> Oh shit! I wasn't expecting that attack to kill her! Frick frick frick!
> Okay, let me try that again-
Only to be greeted by Flowey. You are meant to frick this up in a very specific way that would be natural to seasoned RPG players.
>You'd just assume that, like every other jrpg, theres some selections that work on some enemies and don't work on others, such as bosses, and that the mercy option is one of them.
THE GAME.
LITERALLY.
TELLS YOU.
I beat the game without killing anyone on my very first attempt, and I went in completely blind. The tutorial is very explicit that you can end any encounter using Mercy.
Sounds like you just have a skill issue.
>if you knew about the pacifist run anyway
As soon as I saw MERCY and SPARE options in Dummy Fight I knew exactly what the game was going for.
Hyper-cutesy whimsuns and tutorial froggits just cemented it further.
>you'd just assume that toriel is one of the enemies you needed to beat
Only if you ignore dialogue, already established tone and context completely and assume that "to beat" means "to kill".
>just go on your way after killing her.
Only if you forget Save/Load exist and/or don't give a frick about which ending you'll get or whether there are multiple endings at all.
>You'd just assume that, like every other jrpg, theres some selections that work on some enemies and don't work on others, such as bosses, and that the mercy option is one of them.
Why would I assume that?
It worked on mobs. If the bossfight takes longer to solve, that's only natural.
And stubbornly mashing same option again and again is also a natural response to lack of progression, which leads to Toriel changing her "silent" dialogue bubble, which is an instant giveaway that you are doing everything right.
>yes i think i have the right to torture and murder anyone that so much as looks at me funny, it's a prelude to an attack and therefore selfdefense
>game tells you that you should be Ultra Ghandi and never defend yourself even against people who want to hurt you
>omg so true bestie what a good message!!
you didnt play the game
nope, sans only ever judges you if you do one thing and that’s kill his brother
That's not true.
>and never defend yourself even against people who want to hurt you
the whole gameplay part of the game is dodging enemy attacks
And you're punished for killing in self-defense
killing in self-defense is also restricted irl, undertale always gives you other ways out
>you're punished
no you're not, how does the game punish you for killing monsters?
>bro you don't understand bro, I'm punished with not being able to see the ending where I'm friends with the monsters I want to kill and do not want to be friends with!
it is fricking FICTION you absolute mongoloid
Only the biggest, most powerful, kind and loving of all kings is strong enough to not fight back
And guess what, we're celebrating his birthday right now
>christkek proudly announces how much of a beta homosexual his religion is
pottery
Jesus literally whipped you out of his temple, you disingenuous little israelite. Toby is a disingenuous little israelite, too, wonder if that's connected.
you neurons surely aren't
you have never read the Bible, satanist.
Wrong, moron, and that's a very basic fact.
Repent for saying an insult right now, satanist
This is an ape who thinks "turning the other cheek" means punching the other guy.
This is a israelite who thinks "turning the other cheek" means let your enemies kill you.
Funny. You don't do that in Undertale. Letting them kill you gets you a game over.
I never said that. I was purely responding to your moronic post.
So you are acknowledging that Undertale is, in fact, a very christian game at heart? That the third path between killing your enemies and allowing your enemies to kill you is preferred?
No. You're a moron who thinks "turn the other cheek" means what, exactly?
It means to not retaliate out of hate and to not return insults. To respond with love.
Undertale never says to lay down and die. The ultimate moral of the game is summarized by Asriel directly as "Don't kill, and don't be killed". YOU are the ape that perceives only the "don't kill" without respecting the "don't be killed", because it insults your addiction to violence and murder.
Again, this was in response to Jesus literally taking up a whip and physically whipping banking israelites out of his temple. Nothing to do with your homosexual propaganda game. You responded to this with some moronation about punching people. I'm pretty sure you're a bot at this point.
Jesus didn't exactly kill the money changers on the spot.
You're allowed to punch enemies into submission in Undertale, you know. This thread is in fact about the homosexual propaganda game, and not your soapbox.
>because it insults your addiction to violence and murder
because it doesn't absolve behaving like an butthole
So you repay behaving like an butthole with death?
no, I'm saying that many have a problem with "turn the other cheek" because it doesn't allow them to be morally justified when behaving like a butthole, simply by being wronged
Amen
i didn't know santa was that strong
Being “nice” isn’t inherently virtuous. Men aren’t even supposed to be nice a lot of the time. Women want other women to act nice, and they also expect beta/homosexual males to be nice since sexually excluded men are surrogate females. Being mean is one of the main ways that straight people flirt.
Skill issue
is this how people cope who had abusive parents and shitty "friends"?
Being mean only works if you are also charismatic about it, it needs to be fun and with the right audience, or have other qualities that make people look over your vices
If you're just an butthole you will have a hard time nowadays with how picky girls get to be
Is life really about nothing but sex for you people? No wonder you're so miserable.
>Being mean is one of the main ways that straight people flirt.
Your deadbeat dad beating and yelling at your mom doesn't reflect on the majority of people in the world anon. For what it's worth I do pity the fact that you had a shitty upbringining that left you thinking that people being shitty to each other is the normal way to interact and I hope you'll meet someone special who can change your outlook on life and how you treat others before you wind up a piece of shit like your parents
>Being mean is one of the main ways that straight people flirt.
Tell me how i know your parents are divorced
Ok but it has sexy fish though
Gay furry game still making people seethe to this day by simply saying
>"Killing people is bad"
I agree, it's garbage. Won't find any of the zoomers on here agreeing with you though. You've insulted their holy grail.
I get people being invested in characters but how do you do it for a game that destroys the suspension of disbelief by trying to be meta? Sans ruins the game by being like "Oooooo I see every playthrough" which opens the whole thing up for scrutiny.
>Sans ruins the game by being like "Oooooo I see every playthrough"
He doesn't say that.
The meta in undertale is literally only there to shamelessly artificially add more lore to it at a point it doesn't even care in exploring further the game's thematics, more than it wants to expand its own lore. You can choose to ignore that entirely, anon.
you aren't allowed to talk about undertale's plot. please sir do not think about undertale's plot and the many holes it has. just focus on the funny characters and le power of friendship slop.
Gamers only want one thing and its disgusting
Ariral lookin ass
homosexual
A reminder that there are people ITT that genuinely believe the point of the "genocide" route is that the player is a le bad person that kills all monsters and that chara is muh evil knife child lol
The point of the genocide route is making the player second guess himself over stupid shit that doesn't matter.
>oh you don't HAVE to get every ending and yet you did, why is that hmmm?
>oh you don't HAVE to kill characters and yet you did, why is that hmmm?
Stop defending lazy postmodern tripe because you need to be an epic contrarian.
No it doesn't. If you want to kill everyone and see what happens, the game says hey, alright, now let's move on to something else.
It never goes "why is that hmmm?". You are making that up because you want to dislike it.
At the end of the end, Chara says "alright, hope you had fun, I know I did, see you again in the next world, partner".
the game insists upon itself
The whole point of undertale is that killing is bad, no matter what (be it for your self defense or more). If you expected more, there isn't any depth of analyzing or exploring different and complex contexts and when the game gives you hints of that (asriel telling you that sometimes violence might be necessary), nothing meaningful actually comes out of it more than just words. What I am saying is that I sincerely don't see the point of wasting hours of discussion on something that is clearly that simple/straight forward and juvenile. If you have fun beating the dead horse, sure.
>that killing is bad, no matter what
* when you are a 4 dimensional god who can never be harmed
Undertale's only comment on morality is that you should not spend your time stepping on ants. These things cannot harm you, so why do you choose to harm them?
It certainly does not comment on self defense. A monster cannot reach through the screen and stab you. You are on a different phase of existence. They exist at your whim.
Anon, leave the meta aside. It's like someone metioned before here, it's only information that is present in a solid way nearly by the end of the game, if not post game. it's not fair that the game want to judge you for something you have no idea about and that can change your perception and action, that would be downright shit. I don't think undertale does that either.
The game literally only does its "judging" at the end of the game. For the most part, it DOESN'T judge you before that.
Even then, the only one you get judged for is Papyrus. Who is the only monster who literally cannot kill you under any circumstance, and so you are absolutely not justified in killing in any conceivable sense. Everyone else? It's tragic, it's unfortunate, it's brutal, but the game doesn't call you a bad person on any fundamental level.
But killing Papyrus has no excuse whatsoever.
Flowey literally shoves on your face that you killed toriel. It was completely unecessary.
To manipulate you into undoing it, so that he could mock you for that too.
Flowey is not commenting on the player, he is seeking his own enjoyment by observing your actions in his playground.
Flowey gets to view the timeline from the same privileged perspective as you. Also, his judgement is the worst in the world. Why listen when a bad person calls you a bad person?
The point is about the game doing it. Undertale is a game. I am not questioning any details or "buts" here.
>Undertale is a game
And yet when it does something with this fact, you cry about it.
I don't think you are the same person you are talking about, tho. Don't get me wrong, I just don't care about the meta part, I don't really hate it
The complaints about "the game guilt tripping me" are directly and inextricably connected to the meta aspect of the game. Without the meta aspect, there would be no "guilt tripping". Therefore complaining about the "guilt tripping" is necessarily related to the meta aspect of the game.
The "game" doesn't do it. A character in the game makes a comment from his own perspective for his own (nefarious) purposes. Undertale makes no comment upon the player for killing Toriel.
Even when you actually unravel it, the genocide route as a whole does not ACTUALLY make any comment on the player for killing all the monsters just to see what would happen. At absolute BEST, the only comment it makes is "wow, you sure like being arbitrary with your suspension of disbelief, turning it off and then back on again", which only happens if you perform a true pacifist ending after a genocide ending, which betrays an intent to "care about the characters and their ending" after already demonstrating that you did not.
Undertale makes a point about that kind of hypocrisy, and nothing else.
The whole original point of some anons was that the game does it, and by this they mean in the traditional sense that just like any media, all the parts that are part of it amount to the game's interpretation, it's part of the narrative.
It isn't, though. Only the characters make their comments, based on their own perspectives and personal grade logic. The game's narrative never goes higher than that, on a moral level.
see
That is not the same thing. What I am talking about is subtlety. Flowey could do the same thing without the need to guilt trip.
>the villain could do the same psychological manipulation without trying to psychologically manipulate
Flowey wants to guilt trip because Flowey is a manipulative c**t.
People is not getting the point. That is not the only way to being manipulative and I am not saying that is out of character for flowey, just that guilty trip was not really something completely neccessary. Flowey could have just acknowledged you using your powers or make fun of you for wanting to do "things" different. Without going all "I know that you killed the goat mom you idiot and you did this because you regretted it, didn't you? Tsc, tsc, tsc"
I don't know what to tell you. You acknowledge that it's in his character to do so and appropriate for him to have this perspective, so why are you harping on what is "only completely necessary"?
Because that is not the only way to do that, anon. What I am saying is that there's no need for making it that cheesy, got it? But toby unfrotunately isn't good at being subtle, I will give that.
So you simply find it gauche that the cackling psychopath flower (who tried to kill you seven seconds after meeting you) is not as subtle as he could be? And that's what this thread is actually supposed to be about?
I don't know anon, I am more worried about the game not trying to embarassingly guilty trip me rather than what is in character or not for flowey, which is not an excuse to just bad decisions, but I guess toby's priorities are different.
Well I would prefer characters act appropriate for themselves and take actions that match their narrative. Flowey is not intended to be subtle. If his manipulations are clumsy, then spurn them.
It's like I already said then, not an excuse for bad dialogue or decisions. It's the same people that in the next second will get angry when people rightfully point out that it's corny and cheap.
Maybe you somehow missed it, but Flowey is kind of an butthole.
>Flowey could do the same thing without the need to guilt trip.
Golly, I could!
But THAT'S no fun.
Toby Fox himself has stated that this was never intended to be the point, that it was really about completionism in games, which becomes obvious in Deltarune
The game is simply not fun
the game has a trillion interpretations, and only taking things at face value in a game meant to (affectionately) parody JRPGs/MOTHER games is moronic. the concept iirc of Undertale is 'what if all the monsters you killed/fought in a JRPG had lives and the game not only felt bad for making you kill them but remembered it when you save scummed" and it was ran with from there. most of the game's story nuances are buried beneath the various neutral endings and the most popular routes are the cheesy feel-good true pacifist ending (noted for the tragedy of Asriel still being permanent) and Genocide, making you feel like a dickhead for going out of your way to raise hell
It's a cute game with an S tier 4th wall break if you go genocide route. Don't take it so serious
>Why are you crying about a children's game?
>Autistic anon fails the "tell a story about two people telling a story about two people telling a story" test.
Stick to Fortnite
This game lied to me right off the bat, in the first 5 minutes. I realized I wasn't playing a game with consistent rules, rather some kind of moral puzzle
>anon discovers the point of the game
Fish!
Bla bla bla Undertale is medicore and overrated we get it, Now post the hottest and the only good thing in the game, Temmie obviously
please leave temmie alone:~~*
Here we go again with a threadful of people misinterpreting the game's message and people baiting other people with self-defense shit.
Blame the metagays for that. I am a fan but it's hard to discuss.
That wouldn't happen if some people wasn't so in denial that undertale's message is that simple, just like its morality system. I have no idea why some people like OP go into it expecting something complex. I am not saying that he isn't allowed to criticize, but bending or analyzing the game to something it isn't leads one to misinterpret the whole thing
>multiple monsters try and kill you constantly
>the enemies even still attack you even if you do the thing that allows you to spare them
>NOOoo WHY DID YOU KILL THAT GUY?! GO BACK AND DO IT AGAIN!
frick off genocide run is always the way to go
Genocide is a fanon name and you only kill like 150 monsters out of like 20000. Killing monsters is not the point
>and you only kill like 150 monsters out of like 20000
Wrong, it's 20 000/20 000 after you kill Asgore, and the underground is way smaller than you think.
You don't get it. The game itself gets erased because you filled the "glass" to the brim and did everything the game has to offer because you wanted to see what happens. Chara is the embodiment of this desire.
Through genocide, aka FIGHTing in the game, you kill only like 150 monsters. The rest run away and are only pretty much snapped out of reality when you destroy the game because you did everything it has to offer.
You know, I'll give it to OP, I finally see someone here give an actual criticism as to why they don't like this game other than "it's le reddit lmao" or "fanbase sux"
How new are you? There have been a lot of valid criticisms for this game on several threads, but it's definitely not always, v is most shitposting after all
its kinda weird that people are like "WHAT THAT DIGITAL PERSON SHE'S 17?! UGH KINDA PEDO" but no one raises any eyebrows when the monsters try and date a child (Papyrus)
The game is built on the choice of pacificism vs violence. But what with the monsters being
-Cute
-Friendly
-The game explicitly stating to you multiple times that pacificism is an option. + A dedicated button in the UI + More depth of gameplay during a pacifism route.
This isn't really a hard choice.
Plus, counterintuitively, all the hard fights are located in the genocide route. What makes evil so tempting is that it's the path of least resistance, when you make being good easier than being evil you devalue the meaningfulness of being good.
But at the same time it kinda has to be this way.
If the monsters weren't cute you couldn't make marketable plushies of them.
If they weren't friendly/quirky/goofy you wouldn't write fanfiction of them
If the pacifism route was harder/wasn't clearly explained the game would filter too many people.
It's more like a pacifism game with a secret side route where you kill everyone for the lulz.
>What makes evil so tempting is that it's the path of least resistance, when you make being good easier than being evil you devalue the meaningfulness of being good.
What makes evil tempting in Undertale is the allure of the video game player's mindset.
>what happens if I do X?
>what ending is there?
>how will the characters react?
>I want to see everything
The game couldn't be more clear on this.
Man, people that overthink this game is really embarassing. I say this as a huge fan of the game myself
I know right? The game literally spells it out so why do they try so hard to circle around it?
the problem is that most people that play it don't realize the point when the game pretty much screams it at you. What anon said is the point. Not that you le heckin murder every heckin monster and hyperrealistic blood comes out and you do a joker laugh irl. That's not what the game paints you out to be
Well then you aren't really making a morale choice.
You play through once like a normal person, following the clear path of morality the game has laid out for you.
And then you go back around again and kill everyone for the lulz.
And then the game pretends you're a very bad man for trying to play more of this video game that you paid for.
And the game tries to convince you that your actions have consequences, but at that point you've already bitten the bullet and accepted that they literally don't. A meta state where sans is pissy at you all the time doesn't count.
>Well then you aren't really making a morale choice.
Correct.
>You play through once like a normal person, following the clear path of morality the game has laid out for you.
Or neutral, usually by killing Toriel and/or Undyne due to not figuring out their fights.
>And then the game pretends you're a very bad man for trying to play more of this video game that you paid for.
Ah, there it is. The "characters reacted badly to me killing them, how could Toby Fox literally insult me to my face like this?". Classic.
Of course they're going to react badly if you kill them. What I mean is that, by your "second playthrough", you've already accepted that "this is a video game", "these are video game characters" - hence a second playthrough, you "ruining" the ending by starting the game over. It pulls all the morale weight from you killing them because no matter what you do, they'll be fine. kill them, reload a save, and it's like they never died. So all this dialogue about heroic last stands and vengeance is just the game pulling at your heart strings to frick with you, it knows you don't care.
The game tries to get on your level with more meta stuff, but then it just doesn't
I don't give a flying FRICK what sans thinks about me from run to run.
>I don't give a flying FRICK what sans thinks about me from run to run
And yet you cry endlessly about it.
of course I'm a little pissy, the game told me there would be consequences for my actions and then there were no consequences.
maybe that was the point, actually. It's the only thing the game knows will really frick with me.
damn.
What kind of consequences were you hoping for? Your computer starts emitting carbon monoxide killing you for real? It's a fricking video game of course there are no consequences. And before you say something about narrative consequences there is literally a completely unique genocide route with its own ending and events and it semipermanently fricks with your future endings subtly. If it actually had real meaningful consequences to future playthroughs then it'd be a lot of work for something almost nobody is going to experience and also it'd ruin the game because you could no longer actually properly play it, and ALSO it would ruin the message and turn it into a story about interdimensional superbeings or some lame ass shit
there literally is a major, irreversible* consequence for going full genocide
*at least, irreversible in-game. you can undo it with some file manipulation though.
>And then the game pretends you're a very bad man for trying to play more of this video game that you paid for.
Well, then you're either a psychopath who didn't connect with the characters or you did connect with the characters and decided to kill them all anyway
either way you ARE a bad man
The characters are utterly insufferable. Killing the fujo dinosaur is a moral obligation.
The whinging noises of a passivized snob with nothing to say.
At least they are posting cute frisk pics
I unironically think Undertale is the greatest game ever because it embodies everything good about the internet.
It is quite cacographic in that regard, yet I enjoyed it immensely years ago
Through certain contacts, I have discovered that Toby Fox is a groomer and a pedo. I will post my findings on twitter very, very soon
gays upset about Undertale were and still are gays.
>I'm just supposed to not kill these people who are attacking me!!!
Yeah, that's what was advertised in most promotional material and trailers. Why else did you buy the RPG where you don't have to kill anyone? Fricking dumbass.
>But the game should validate my choice of not doing any of that!
You get your own special super murder route. Your choice is validated. Did you want a pat on the back? "Actually killing people as an immortal godlike entity who can rewind time is perfectly fine lol".
You sound like a shitty person bitter that not everyone is as broken and bitter as you
It's been EIGHT YEARS since Undertale released
10 years since the demo
the seethe was already going stong back in those days too thanks to mr. 2000 dollars poopy joe himself
Mr. who the what now?
You're just going to have to face the fact Undertale is one of those ULTRA EBIN SUBVERSIVE pieces of media the zoomer generation latched on while they were very early in their mental development so they were both overly impressed by it and weren't aware of better things that preceded it.
No amount of explanation or evidence is going to make them realize it's a shitty shallow contradictory game entirely held up by gimmicks.
Don't you literally get rewarded with extra content by doing the genocide route. What the frick did you guys want? Everyone to smile and say "yeah thanks for annihilating the universe?"
Everhood did exactly that and it was shit
the absolute irony of anyone involved with homestuck writing about morality is baffling to me. Andrew Hussy while talented was totally naive. Being the only successful person ever associated with tumblr, this made him a prime target for scam artists.
Someone touched a nerve
Filtered.
Why don't you go to the Yellow thread and kick up a stink there? Surely you get the attention you crave there.