i could guess why but im not going to do everything for him.
leveling up is a lazy way to show the player’s progression and feed into their enjoyment of personal growth without adding anything new to the gameplay or the challenge
Are there any games that give you access to everything like that?
It feels like you would lose the reason to play sooner if you had access to everything like that, especially if the game is built around exploration.
>Are there any games that give you access to everything like that?
Uhhh literally every single game that doesn't LARP as having RPG elements to it? Street Fighter, Rocket League, Counter Strike, DotA, PUBG? Super Mario World? Once you scrap the idea of level systems you start thinking of other ways for players to progress, or even come to the realisation that you don't need progression at all. One of the best games I ever played was Puzzle Pirates, a shitty MMO with zero leveling systems, just players competing in mini games, sailing ships, and banding together to fight over islands.
5 months ago
Anonymous
I mean yeah if the games are not structured in a way that requires leveling up you can do away with it like the games you listed.
>Are there any games that give you access to everything like that?
BotW.
Honestly yeah, you get practically everything on the Great Plateau and then you're sent on your way to do whatever.
I know some people who got bored and dropped the game because of it and I also know people who wholeheartedly enjoyed the exploring from beginning to end.
Only fans are able to produce SOULFUL games nowadays
Not that anon but Rayman Redemption is kino and even better than the original game, which was always one of all my time favorites
5 months ago
Anonymous
Rayman 1 is the best Rayman. I'm not playing this shitty romhack tho.
5 months ago
Anonymous
It's not a romhack and Rayman 1 is the second best Rayman due to redemption taking the number 1 spot
The original's final boss looks like some shitty fan game garbage compared to the actual fan game
5 months ago
Anonymous
>It's not a romhack
What is it then?
5 months ago
Anonymous
It's a Game Maker game
5 months ago
Anonymous
I wouldn't call it 100% better as some bits did feel really off to me, but it was nice that they gave Mr Dark a proper fight in the end.
>the point of leveling up is the show the character's growth, so you actually become stronger later in the game
Why can't your late game strength come from you just being better at the game by that point? Are you playing games that don't actually allow for player skill? Why lmao
5 months ago
Anonymous
it does, and so does the fictional game character having learned new abilities. what compels a person who doesn't play video games to waste their own free time here like this?
5 months ago
Anonymous
I do play video games. None of which have leveling systems tbh. Been hammering Mario Kart lately, it's very fun!
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Have to level up the kart with coins to go fast
Why can't it just be about skill?
5 months ago
Anonymous
Coins are something you do inside the core gameplay loop, not something that persists from the game's start to finish.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Coins are something you do inside the core gameplay
You mean like leveling up?
5 months ago
Anonymous
Coins are something you have to manage inside a race. Is the speed benefit from swinging a little wider to pick them up worth the time loss from not taking the faster line? Meanwhile with leveling systems there are no decisions, you just get levels and become better than you were before.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Meanwhile with leveling systems there are no decisions
You decide skills and allocate stat points in most RPG games. You are incorrect.
5 months ago
Anonymous
you don't play jack shit, homosexual
5 months ago
Anonymous
Metal Mario, Varmint, regular tyres, regular glider. All those Yoshis and Peachettes on teddy buggies can suck my fricking nuts while I'm winning.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Why can't your late game strength come from you just being better at the game by that point?
It does, it's both. Your character has access to better skills and you have gotten better at strategising when to use them.
Why is this so complicated for you to understand?
>give the player all the abilities at the start >the player never learns the fundamentals or how to use the "basic" skills harmoniously with the "advanced" ones >the player gets filtered by something they never learned because there was no progression of skill acquisition >the player calls the game bad and gives it a thumbs-down on Steam
Just like when learning something in real life, it's important to gain access to more complex stuff gradually so that you learn to work with the basics, then realize why those are good and how they can synergize with the higher-end skills
the average video game player (by definition of being average) is not exceptional. the type of video game which includes leveling up is one where the player is meant to feel exceptional by playing a character who is indeed exceptional.
levels are meant to fill in the difference between the pace (and cap) of the player's skill improvement and that of the exceptional character they are controlling.
without levels, the difference in skill required when fighting a slime and a dragon would be so insanely huge that a vast majority of players would never be able to reach the latter.
this is incredibly obvious when you take a look at games with leveling which let you choose not to level. if you couldn't level in elden ring then malenia would be impossible for most players. this isn't a matter of 'just balance better' either. if you nerf malenia so the same amount of people who beat her currently can all beat her at level 1, then she stops feeling like malenia, blade of miquella, who has never known defeat, and the player feels less exceptional for beating her. because the amount the average player improves from when they fight the soldier of godrick to when they fight malenia is nowhere near the amount needed to go from fighting a random dude to the (second) strongest demigod
why?
leveling up is a lazy way to show the player’s progression and feed into their enjoyment of personal growth without adding anything new to the gameplay or the challenge
usually leveling up adds new skills or abilities to the gameplay
time-gated mechanics are even worse
It's not time-gated. You won't level up if you just stand still and wait.
Not him but why not just remove the levels and give all skills and abilities to the player at the beginning of the game?
Are there any games that give you access to everything like that?
It feels like you would lose the reason to play sooner if you had access to everything like that, especially if the game is built around exploration.
>Are there any games that give you access to everything like that?
BotW.
>Are there any games that give you access to everything like that?
Uhhh literally every single game that doesn't LARP as having RPG elements to it? Street Fighter, Rocket League, Counter Strike, DotA, PUBG? Super Mario World? Once you scrap the idea of level systems you start thinking of other ways for players to progress, or even come to the realisation that you don't need progression at all. One of the best games I ever played was Puzzle Pirates, a shitty MMO with zero leveling systems, just players competing in mini games, sailing ships, and banding together to fight over islands.
I mean yeah if the games are not structured in a way that requires leveling up you can do away with it like the games you listed.
Honestly yeah, you get practically everything on the Great Plateau and then you're sent on your way to do whatever.
I know some people who got bored and dropped the game because of it and I also know people who wholeheartedly enjoyed the exploring from beginning to end.
>Fan game
:/
Only fans are able to produce SOULFUL games nowadays
Not that anon but Rayman Redemption is kino and even better than the original game, which was always one of all my time favorites
Rayman 1 is the best Rayman. I'm not playing this shitty romhack tho.
It's not a romhack and Rayman 1 is the second best Rayman due to redemption taking the number 1 spot
The original's final boss looks like some shitty fan game garbage compared to the actual fan game
>It's not a romhack
What is it then?
It's a Game Maker game
I wouldn't call it 100% better as some bits did feel really off to me, but it was nice that they gave Mr Dark a proper fight in the end.
because the point of leveling up is the show the character's growth, so you actually become stronger later in the game
>the point of leveling up is the show the character's growth, so you actually become stronger later in the game
Why can't your late game strength come from you just being better at the game by that point? Are you playing games that don't actually allow for player skill? Why lmao
it does, and so does the fictional game character having learned new abilities. what compels a person who doesn't play video games to waste their own free time here like this?
I do play video games. None of which have leveling systems tbh. Been hammering Mario Kart lately, it's very fun!
>Have to level up the kart with coins to go fast
Why can't it just be about skill?
Coins are something you do inside the core gameplay loop, not something that persists from the game's start to finish.
>Coins are something you do inside the core gameplay
You mean like leveling up?
Coins are something you have to manage inside a race. Is the speed benefit from swinging a little wider to pick them up worth the time loss from not taking the faster line? Meanwhile with leveling systems there are no decisions, you just get levels and become better than you were before.
>Meanwhile with leveling systems there are no decisions
You decide skills and allocate stat points in most RPG games. You are incorrect.
you don't play jack shit, homosexual
Metal Mario, Varmint, regular tyres, regular glider. All those Yoshis and Peachettes on teddy buggies can suck my fricking nuts while I'm winning.
>Why can't your late game strength come from you just being better at the game by that point?
It does, it's both. Your character has access to better skills and you have gotten better at strategising when to use them.
Why is this so complicated for you to understand?
>give the player all the abilities at the start
>the player never learns the fundamentals or how to use the "basic" skills harmoniously with the "advanced" ones
>the player gets filtered by something they never learned because there was no progression of skill acquisition
>the player calls the game bad and gives it a thumbs-down on Steam
Just like when learning something in real life, it's important to gain access to more complex stuff gradually so that you learn to work with the basics, then realize why those are good and how they can synergize with the higher-end skills
i could guess why but im not going to do everything for him.
I like leveling up thoughever
depends on the game.
a game mechanic in a vacuum can neither be good nor bad.
good thing.. actually bad thing
chad.png
the average video game player (by definition of being average) is not exceptional. the type of video game which includes leveling up is one where the player is meant to feel exceptional by playing a character who is indeed exceptional.
levels are meant to fill in the difference between the pace (and cap) of the player's skill improvement and that of the exceptional character they are controlling.
without levels, the difference in skill required when fighting a slime and a dragon would be so insanely huge that a vast majority of players would never be able to reach the latter.
this is incredibly obvious when you take a look at games with leveling which let you choose not to level. if you couldn't level in elden ring then malenia would be impossible for most players. this isn't a matter of 'just balance better' either. if you nerf malenia so the same amount of people who beat her currently can all beat her at level 1, then she stops feeling like malenia, blade of miquella, who has never known defeat, and the player feels less exceptional for beating her. because the amount the average player improves from when they fight the soldier of godrick to when they fight malenia is nowhere near the amount needed to go from fighting a random dude to the (second) strongest demigod