This is J'lor. He kinda... jails people...
He was a good friend
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This is J'lor. He kinda... jails people... He was a good friend
This is J'lor. He kinda... jails people...
He was a good friend
Thalidomide Vintage Ad Shirt $22.14 |
|
Thalidomide Vintage Ad Shirt $22.14 |
What's J'lor's lore?
The canonically most powerful being in all of Warcraft
equivalent for the Shadowlands
>Eternal Ones say he's a betrayer, in truth he was betrayed
>Knows Sylvanas' trigger words and hides that her boytoy is dead
>Mindbreaks Anduin and turns him into his Arthas-cosplaying sex slave
>Holds the virtuous half of every soul claimed by Frostmourne
>Caused an anima drought in the Shadowlands and bamboozled Elune into supporting the genocide of her favoured people
>Denathrius bows down to him and created the Dreadlords for him
>Jailer's dreadlord minions infiltrated every other cosmic force
>Dreadlords corrupted Sargeras who corrupted the Eredar who corrupted Gul'dan who corrupted the Orcs and made contact with Medivh who was possessed by Sargeras who was corrupted by the Dreadlord agents of the Jailer to start the invasion of Azeroth which would result in the Horde losing and Ner'zhul destroying Draenor with his portal and being captured by Kil'jaeden who binds Ner'zhul's soul to the Helm of Domination (the Jailer mindhacked one of the other leaders of the Shadowlands and had him create Frostmorne, the Helm of Domination, and the Lich King's armor) and then throws Ner'zhul onto Azeroth to create the Scourge for the Legion but actually for the Jailer so that Arthas will pick up Frostmourne, become a Death Knight, and kill Sylvanas, raise her as a banshee, and then lose control over her and a faction of the scourge so that eventually Sylvanas will kill herself after Arthas' death and be transported to the Maw so that the Jailer can turn her into his puppet so that she can break the barrier between the mortal realm and the Shadowlands by shattering the Helm of Domination that the Jailer had created so that the Jailer can cross through a portal once he collects all the Infinity Sigils to rewrite reality.
seriously, what the frick was blizzard thinking
>Ion says "I need to keep making raids for 0.01% of the player base, get that fat fricker to write something cool"
>Fat Fricker says "I love Sylvannas so much. I just finished reading the tvtrops article on Marvel's Infinity War about how Thanatos wanted to impress Death... what if we do something kind of like that?"
>Ion "Yeah sure, whatever, we got 3 months"
>what the frick was blizzard thinking
Steve Danuser is the worst writing to ever work in games. The Warcraft story was never exactly deep or thought provoking, Metzen was never an amazing writer but his shit was mostly stable and flowing. Danuser and his 3 other toadies that took over after Metzen just upended absolutely everything, to turn it all into edgy wannabe GoT shades of grey moronation where everyone is just a different brand of bad guy deep down, even the fricking Light and Naaru.
didnt he get fired, finally?
Seems like he willingly left once Metzen came back as lead and Ybarra insisted on trying to end work from home and get everyone back in the office.
Dansuer lived a long way away from blizz HQ.
Not fired, rage quit. Metzen returned and basically took over narrative control again and he got buttblasted and left.
It's not all his fault. A lot of the nu lore plot points were based on things discussed in the lore forums around 2012, since cataclysm had people really angry about faction war nonsense.
A lot of ideas mentioned around the time, such as Calia Menethil returning as a Sylvanas replacement ended up coming true.
When Blizzard tried to do WAR in WARCRAFT shit they ran into the problem of players reacting negatively to an unfair war narrative as they seemingly expected stalemates or fairness in a fricking war narrative.
What was particularly criticized was Blizzard's tendency to use the Horde as an instigator leaning towards a "bad faction" before using the Tauren and Thrall to damage control.
This also brought to light blizzards inability to make elements of the Alliance come off as bad as to make them a suitable enemy for the Horde in the conflict. This was counter criticized as "making the whole world grey is boring" and that the best route was to make the Horde bad and the Alliance good.
It's this inescapable thing and it was used again in BFA. It shows that War in Warcraft is a bad idea and that the only way people will be satified is if the Horde and Alliance are both objectively good.
But nah, they took the "grey" route but started off with the religious elements before the faction shit. The people arguing for grey seemingly got jobs at blizzard.
HordeBlack folk just need to realize the monster mash team up faction is the bad guys and stop b***hing about it.
The Tauren being a morally untouchable force because "we gotta respect native americans" is pretty fricking gay anon.
Either make the horde good or quit using the Tauren and throw away leadership to cycle through a shit war story.
I never even thought what Garrosh was doing was that bad, but I guess fantasy nerds are so fricked by modern day geopolitics they can't fathom the idea of "invading a territory for resources" which was a historical driving force of war to begin with.
No alliance Black person, Garrosh conquering Gilneas is not horrific and worse than your typical WoW villian. Most WoW villain's are horrific eldritch magic drug addicts that consume your souls and want to destroy everything to fullfill incomprehensible whims of outer-dimensional beings.
Some guy taking over your place by force is not a greater evil.
Sylvanas is a fair assessment granted, because nukes civilian death and shit.
But holy frick do morons asking for gritty war in their fantasy not understand what they want.
the alliance having an evil race from the start would be an improvement. night elves would fit the bill. make Tyrande and Maeiv one of the more reasonable and good ones and let the rest be the menzoberranzan inspired elves that they were inspired by
People used to bring THAT up as well, how night elves used to be closer to the Forsaken in terms of relationship with the Alliance.
The Alliance having magic users and a strong history with High Elves, general elf xenophobia should have made them a bit uncomfortable with their new allies and a great source of questionable conflicting politics I.E Night elves butchering some Dalaran mages or some shit.
But they got flanderized to complete shit.
Draenei were another thing, the Akunai cultists showed their culture wasn't uniformally obsessed with the light. I never played legion but supposedly they sort of brought this element of Draenei culture back with a couple of named ones going Manari.
But none of that was ever used to dictate a point for the Alliance to serve as a villain to the Horde.
The Alliance is never the aggressor, the Horde is always "just following orders". Jaina being a b***h wasn't enough, we needed more racism against the horde, more decisions that would get the Horde mad.
iirc magatha grimtotem was the main tauren who lobbied to get the forsaken into the horde at the start of wow
then she ran interference for most of the bad shit the royal apothecary society were up to, poisoned caine, took over thunder bluff, got kicked out of the horde by garrosh but got away with all of it and eventually got thrall's old job on the earthen ring
I still can't tell if she really was was a political genius outplaying everyone or just written weird
Tauren are fine they just need more of that ambiguous self-serving stuff in the faction
Grimtotem are cool but are blatantly regulated as "the bad egg" tribe, like an inverse Frostwolves.
They are too evil to exist as a counterpoint element of the Tauren people.
IT's bad writing, it reminds me of how every race in that shit pile that was GW2 had a blatantly evil faction of their race that was "tolerated" for dumb reasons, like the Norn who worshipped Jormagg.
>When Blizzard tried to do WAR in WARCRAFT
WoW didn't even have PvP until the 11th hour because 2 devs with a DoAC addiction demanded it. Read the Jon Staits book. The war ended in WC3, clearly and succinctly.
not to mention there's no reason the horde should exist. the draenei could nuke the horde off the face of the planet. so could the gnomes
>we already took a cheese grater to the anus of our lore, what's a little lemon juice and cayenne gonna hurt?
probably that. they've never cared about the story of their games past warcraft 3 and it shows
They needed an excuse for the next expansion and they wanted it to be higher stakes
>Entire demonic invasion of Azeroth since WC2 sole purpose was for one dude to chase a satan-vampire to an ice floe and put on an evil hat
>So that one dude could order the undead to build the Forge of Souls and guard it with a James Brown impersonator in order to extract Azeroth's world soul and fuel the prime-robots' universe restarting machine
Why did the Legion burn "countless worlds" when all they really needed to do is build a tiny little forge of souls and extract energy?
There is a way to make Kel'thuzad's secret boss interesting and Shadowlands wasn't it. I have to remind myself that Kel'thuzad was even in SL, he mattered so little.
Making Kel'thuzad not devoted and loyal to Arthas was the most moronic shit ever and is just a drop in the bucket of the kicks in the nuts that was Shadowlands, even relative to the increasing general lore rape of the last decade+. Skelebros for life
God i miss /hotsg/ the /vm/ thread doesn't have close to the shitposts.
They try to make it like the Legion was infiltraited but not under complete control of J'lor. They destroyed worlds because they're demons, the goals of the legion are still Sarg trying to destroy everything.
Seems like a simple enough plan.
>Jailer's dreadlord minions
Man, I really can't care about WoW lore after they just keep retconning it all the fricking time. Even JoJo does its "twists" better.
MIND HACK
and he would've gotten away with it too if it weren't for those meddling champions
That last bit sounds like it could be significantly cut down if he just had someone break the Helm of Domination from the getgo
Plan wasn't ready yet.
Anon forgot another important part of the plan.
>Dreadlords convince the Legion to torture the unborn would soul of Argus the unmaker, flooding it's essence with death.
>So when Argus dies at the end of Legion, instead of being reborn in the reality of order, his soul is sent to the Shadowlands, breaking the robot replacement Arbiter the rest of the Eternal Ones made.
>This is when he has KT to go remind Sylvanas that his prophecy was right, so she should go burn Teldrassil and kick off WW4 since nothing matters anyway thanks to fate, for more soul magic being sent to the maw as J'lor as the previous real Arbiter could directly pull that anima to his domain
>This combination of system frickery gave J'lor the power he needed to walk out the maw whenever he pleased.
The Unmaker of the Shadowlands...
I cant believe they make you fight this raid boss solo for a quest.
do you remember that South Park gag about Family guy? How the writers are actually manatees that randomly pick balls and construct the story? It feels like Wacraft's writing at least since TBC has been done literally the same way
Say something nice about dragonflight
Furthermore, you have an active sub, don’t you?
Why can’t authors write down major characters motivations & backstories ahead of time
They do most of the time when it comes to WoW.
Expansion storylines and villain motivations start with the lead narrative designer cooking the next expansions plot up when the previous expansion hits beta. And then the plot of the current expansion is about how to get to that point.
The problem is, the lead narrative designer at the time, Afrasabi got fired. And likely took most of his plans for what ever Jailer originally was with him and then it became a rush around trying to make a script for Shadowlands with the 9.0 raid boss getting upped to expansion villain.
Shadowlands then became trying to fix BFA's controversial plot points and Jailer got 0 development or explanation of his motives until the very end as the company was on fire do to the cosby suite being found out. Which is why they wrote for the first time in the game's history a four year timeskip just to brush that shit in a corner and focus on something easier to write for Dragonflight.
Then Metzen happened. What ever plans were had for 11.0 originally changed when Metzen came back around the time Dragonflight launched and plans got changed to the World Soul Sega. Which is why Fryakk needed all his motivation and shit thrown in at a book at the end of the expansion, when he was obviously written first to be nothing more than a .2 filler boss with a presumed .3
Last 5 years of WoW has been nothing but writers trying to rush villains do to plans and script changes. And now they've convinced themselves they can commit to an 6-8 year plan in World Soul Saga with Metzen at the helm.
Everything you say is right but you must learn the difference between ‘due’ and ‘do’
I can tell you’re ESL and also have suffered at the hands of Bobby Kotick
See you in Azj-Kahet
>ESL.
No I'm just a moron who didn't notice he made the mistake twice.
>Fryakk
When did the protoss invade Azeroth?
>when the writer makes shit up as they go and pretends everything was part of his plan all along
That all sounds really stupid.
it all makes sense if you don't think about it
>Dreadlords corrupted Sargeras who corrupted the Eredar who corrupted Gul'dan who corrupted the Orcs and made contact with Medivh who was possessed by Sargeras who was corrupted by the Dreadlord agents of the Jailer to start the invasion of Azeroth which would result in the Horde losing and Ner'zhul destroying Draenor with his portal and being captured by Kil'jaeden who binds Ner'zhul's soul to the Helm of Domination (the Jailer mindhacked one of the other leaders of the Shadowlands and had him create Frostmorne, the Helm of Domination, and the Lich King's armor) and then throws Ner'zhul onto Azeroth to create the Scourge for the Legion but actually for the Jailer so that Arthas will pick up Frostmourne, become a Death Knight, and kill Sylvanas, raise her as a banshee, and then lose control over her and a faction of the scourge so that eventually Sylvanas will kill herself after Arthas' death and be transported to the Maw so that the Jailer can turn her into his puppet so that she can break the barrier between the mortal realm and the Shadowlands by shattering the Helm of Domination that the Jailer had created so that the Jailer can cross through a portal once he collects all the Infinity Sigils to rewrite reality.
He is Thanos, got it.
not at all, thanos got built up in like a dozen movies
he was LITERALLY pic related
why didn't he make human females real since he is so powerful ?
There are things not even J'lor has the power to accomplish
He made them fake so you'd commit suicide and he can turn your soul into anima in the maw
I like the notion that Sylvanas is working for J'lor who was behind her death and her undead state.
I hate that I understood this and that this is real
He is trying to protect us from an even bigger evil baddie
but now that metzen is back, the biggerer and baddier evil will actually be a good guy that got CORRUPT!
even after metzen finishes whatever he wanted to write, wow will not go quietly into the night, so after all the cosmic forces are dead there will still be a follow up expansion of some literally who chudlord being brought down by the power of transvokers.
Sorting hat aka the original Arbiter of the after-life gets bored of the job his bosses the First Ones left with him.
Decides to go out of the normal rules of how to sort the dead, this pisses off his siblings/co-workers who create a super-hell for him to put him in the time out zone.
J'lor is there for undisclosed amount of time, with Sire Denathrius being the only sibling who agrees with him that the system is kinda shit so let's rebuild it to benefit us.
They hatch a plan to send Sire's agents the Dreadlords to the legion and kick off a chain of events that leads to the Lich King.
J'lor then talks to easily manipulated victims of the Lich King such as Sylvanas after she killed herself, to slowly convince them into getting on the plan to rebuild reality do to the system being broken cause Sylvanas thought she got a shit hand in life and death.
Fast forward to Shadowlands, plan's going great, J'lor manages to get to the control room of the Afterlife basically the Ark to the Shadowlands many Halos. It's revealed that the Forge of Souls on Azeroth was actually a conduit to allow the J'lor to channel power from the Shadowlands and from Zerith Mortis to grind the soul of Azeroth and use it's soul power to recreate reality so J'lor can rebuild reality as it suits him and fend from the real cosmic big bad that is to come, which he was likely privy to information was do to being the ex Arbiter.
>Decides to go out of the normal rules of how to sort the dead
what did he actually do tho, was that ever explained?
The specifics weren't explained despite all the expanded media trying to fix the plot and in game plot.
He just did something that the rest of the siblings were against aside from Sire D in secret. Which caused the Primus to invent domination magic and create the Maw to lock him up in jail.
It's literally never explained what he did. The even better part is that he didn't get bored, he got upset that he had to judge people's worthiness based on comic occurrences and destiny that affected them, both of which are well outside their control, so his drive for doing whatever he did was to give people free will.
Then immediately after that Blizzard forgot and he was suddenly someone who wanted to tear down the whole system so that he could be its sole judge and ruler.
Then immediately after that Blizzard forgot and he was suddenly attempting to reoriginate the cosmos so that it could be united against a massive threat bigger than even the First Ones or something.
He explains none of these motivations because they didn't exist upon his inception and Blizzard was just bumbling through the story patch by patch and making it up as they went along. Thanks Christy Golden.
>Sire's agents the Dreadlords
This was easily top3 of the shittiest Warcraft retcons ever
And they have PLENTY of shit ones...
His original design was shitty, but still significantly better than BALD
>what we need for our designs?
>yes, MORE SPIKES AND EDGE
His original design 100% came from when The Primus and Jailer were the same character, before they got split into two during the re-writes after Afrasabi got fired mid BFA.
>The Primus and Jailer were the same character
they were?
Primus didn't get his actual design until 9.1. The design very much being the other half of the Jailers original design.
Of course there was a clear change in development after Afrasabi got fired, from the Maw being the 9.0 raid zone a with the original more Hades like Jailer getting redesigned and pushed up to the Final Boss and Castle Nathria was made the 9.0 raid
he looks like fricking ice king from adventure time
>It's revealed that the Forge of Souls on Azeroth was actually a conduit to allow the J'lor to channel power from the Shadowlands
Wait, as in the Forge of Souls the 3.3.0 patch dungeon? That is now a massive universe scale crux in the game?
That dungeon already had lore, it was just a machine that mulched souls to fuel Icecrown's machinery.
Yeah, that dungeon. It got changed to also doubling as a siphon to damage the Heart of Azeroth.
Why did they have to try and tie their stupid new ideas back to old ones
Because Legion kicked off the trend that every expansion sorta needs to end with Azeroth being in some form of danger.
>Burning Legion is right on Azeroth's door, go face them on Argus. Oh no, Sargeras stabbed it anyway!
>Azeroth's woons are prettah bad champean, ya must go around and collect her blood while ya dealing with a world war story. But oh no champyun, while ye' were dealin with da' war, the nasty Old God N'zoth seeks to corrupt her heart!
>The Jailer is trying to use the Forge to kill Azeroth and use her soul to remake reality, stop him!
>Fryakk the nasty man is trying to blow up the new world tree currently inside the Emerald Dream and cause the dream to set a flame. This likely will have dire consequences to Azeroth if we let this happen!
>Introducing the World Soul Saga. Where Knife-breasts McGee and her Big Earth Dragon Boyfriend seek to do harm to Azeroth to force the Titans to come back.
This was honestly one of the most benign things they did. I wouldn't have minded more crosspoints between Azeroth and the cosmic realms if only it hadn't all been tied to the JAILOR'S BEEN BEHIND EVERYTHING ALL ALONG plot
Wanted to reboot WoW but they wouldn’t let him
1/2 of his lore is that he’s Thanos. He has a power glove with sigils instead of infinity stones, and wants to use the sigils to rewrite the laws of reality in his favor.
The other 1/2 of his lore was shoved in at the last second — Final Fantasy XIV was advertising an expansion called Endwalker that was the conclusion to a 10-year story arc, so WoW also had to be concluding an epic 10-year story arc. That long-awaited conclusion being Jailer and his plan to do… something. I guess.
If you take a look at pic related, the left is from WoW and came out after the one on the right, which is a meaningful symbol from the FFXIV universe called the shard of Azem. WoW stole the symbol because the writers are incapable of having original thoughts.
Both of them are just stolen from the Vex in Destiny.
Nobody plays that shit
And it goes on.
shitposting in /wowg/ in the lead up to endwalker was some of the most fun i've had on this website in years
>the jannies throwing a shitfit over all the Asmong FFXIV stream spam on /wowg/
Too bad he got filtered by A4S and fell for the "you didn't beat the game" meme with it, would have loved to see that homosexual crash Endwalker's launch servers over and over
It was a really special time, it would be funny if it would happen again some time.
I still can’t believe they just stole the stone, it’s so fricking wild. I bet they feel so shameful afterwards
>That long-awaited conclusion being Jailer and his plan to do… something. I guess.
guess that explains this
>FF14tards pretending anyone at Blizzard gives a shit or fears their third rate dead MMO
lmao
planned since WC3
He made some pretty good pop songs.
Then he got cancelled for his sexual kinks and so they hired a bunch of sjw to hang him to a cross. So, first nail him to the cross then use that same cross to build gallows to hang him.
He has the sigils and has been the mastermind behind everything starting from WC3.
hes a big guy
got some big nipples
proofs?
BIG JUICY NIPS
ok, thats kinda hot
He's a robot god that accidentally got sentient, tried to give his masters some feedback, and got put in the jail dimension for it. He spends the next few eons compressing Space Hitlers into soul dust so he can have a front lawn and a house. Later, he reconnects with one of his brothers, picks out Ouija as a hobby, tries to steal an entire forgeworld with a harpoon gun, and gets chased back inside his house by the forgeworld's guard dog. Trying a new plan, he asks 3 mortal men to help him. Every single one takes the great power offered to them and tells the poor robot to frick off. Finally, he tells a woman a sad story so she starts a huge genocide and breaks him out of jail. After escaping, he decides an open source universe would be much more effective that trying to submit a bug report to Blizzard again, so we have no choice but to kill him.
the writer behind him got fired immediately after, after being there for a decade
he just shows up outta nowhere and is considered the strongest being in the entire universe because... because blizzard ran out of ideas, it's not like they have 20 years of worldbuilding and things like the voidlords for villains. Also he's apparently been behind every bad thing that has happened since warcraft 3, despite never being mentioned in lore for 20 years. The only mention related to him was that the shadowlands exists and it was like 3 years before his expansion. And it was just described as the opposite of the emerald dream in the book. That's all.
At least they didn't ruin arthas anymore in that abomination of an expansion. And they finally put sylvanas to rest.
He's inevitable.
Without Shadowlands there wouldn't be this peak kino:
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kek, reminds me of this
yes, but you need to remember that both sargeras and the jailor might be bit of a c**ts, but they arent REALLY evil, they are all doing it for the greater good!
Look, all I'm saying is. Can anyone prove the First Ones gave us anything good?
They gave us those blue angels so they're alright in my book.
>They gave us those blue angels
LITERALLY trannies
Okay, and?
have a nice day, freak
post the gameboy version
I know TBC raped WC3 lore extremely hard with what they did to Kael, Illidan and Vashj, but man Shadowlands is almost on another level.
Is there a good breakdown of how the lore and how it was fricked up?
Of what, TBC's lore rape or Shadowlands lore rape?
TBC retconned most stuff from the frozen throne. The most obvious one is that Draenor wasn't this big broken desert planet that it seemed in WC3. Not only is it thriving but the not-broken Draenei are still around and even still had their capital city of shatrath. Illidan's duel with Arthas is completely ignored. He had his stomach cut open by fricking FROSTMOURNE and not only did he go from that completely unscathed but he also never has a scar or anything. Maiev getting captured by Illidan even though she was all "I'll never stop hunting" only for her to fricking free him and his demon hunters in legion
The whole shitfest with Ner'zhul but thats more wrath
The main thing that pissed off players with TBC was how they made Illidan and his friends evil for unsubstantiated reasons.
Draenor changing terrain was kind of bad but that was more of a WC III retcon as orcs were transitioning from an inherently demonic race to a tricked race of savages. Ergo the planet wouldn't make sense as already being hell-like. That aside, it did frick up Thrall's reasoning for Durotar being their new settlement, starting out as "because it reminds us as home" and being changed to "being a shithole as to be humble".
People also get hung up with the Draenei retcon because Eredar were held as so important they were the corruptors of Sargeras. But this got retconned by TFT with the Nathrazim also being corruptors. The original Draenei were also implied to be a mutant "human like " race to fix the Garona problem WC II causes with her ancestry.
It was mostly really all about how Illidan had nonsense motives, Kael had nonsense motives and Vash'j having still unexplained motives.
weren't illidan/kael/vash'j originally meant for a third faction that never got out of the idea stage?
Draenei in War3 were at least interesting but they were just turned into an excuse to put Tieflings into the setting, I can admit it even if their aesthetic and music in TBC are sovlful. Draenei are actually one of the very few instances of Blizzard retconning something and it turning out being worth the lore frickery
They didn't even need to retcon it; just call them Eredar, the draenei can stay the fugly mutant dudes and we still get hot goat b***hes.
Tieflings looking like Draenei was a thing done AFTER Draenei were added. Blizzard just needed to pull a new race related to outland out of their ass and Metzen thought the idea of "holy demons" was cool. Their first fricking pick was pandas for it.
What's funny is 90% of the playerbase didn't know that "This race is of the same ancestry and Kil'jaden and Archimonde, the big bads of WC III", hence the space goat may-may.
>metzen being original in any way instead of stealing
tbc is stolen spelljammer and draenei are stolen tieflings
I'm not saying he didn't steal, they are clearly a "subversion" of tieflings. However you are wrong about draenei looking like tieflings. Older edition tieflings were more like Nightcrawler than draenei.
>The main thing that pissed off players with TBC was how they made Illidan and his friends evil for unsubstantiated reasons.
It really wasn't that strange, but Blizzard just didn't tell the story.
Vashj and the naga were always evil.
Illidan was infused with tremendous amounts of demonic energy. He was at the very best neutral before that, but most likely evil. His whole life is causing problems and never taking responsibility.
Those two maybe needed a questline explaining things better, and only Kael'thas needed more, but I think the basic outline is already in the game. He sided with Illidan to gain a future for his people. Kael'thas quickly ends up the enemy of humans, dwarves, and gnomes by leaving the Alliance, and then he is an enemy of the Night Elves after working with Illidan. After that, Illidan lost to Arthas, made an enemy of the Burning Legion, and had to retreat to a broken world filled with demons. From there, Kael'thas watches Illidan go nuts. He starts to gain an army of fel infused orc slaves and demons and makes an enemy of the Mag'har, the Draenei, the Naaru, the Arrakoa, and those mushroom people. Kael'thas has no possible allies at this point and he is stuck on basically Mars. The only farmland is filled with Mag'har orcs who hate you. For some reason, Vashj starts sucking up all the water left on Mars, too. The Burning Legion arrives and parks Voltron outside of Illidan's house.
Kael'thas thinks he may have made a few errors in judgement at this point, when suddenly Kil'jaeden starts sending him some text messages.
Shadowlands is the quickest, surest, most efficient raping of a world's lore/story I have ever personally seen in any media. Nothing comes even close.
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J'lor was a victim.
The Primus shouldn't have locked Zovaal up.
I choose to believe he was just making shit up the whole time, he didn't really do any of that but wanted to seem powerful so we didn't just immediately roll up and kill him before he got his power up.
>he is bad because... JAILER BAD
>he has an EVIL master plan so 1374485+ iq not even the devs know it
>reduces all of the best main wow plots to dust by becoming the guy who mind controlled the big boys like arthas and sylvanas
Wow ia dead
You gotta give it to him he single handedly destroyed the entire lore of a universe
He really was the Satan of World of Warcraft®
>You gotta give it to him he single handedly destroyed the entire lore of a universe
haha
lol
not even close
the entire lore has been utterly destroyed since TBC
He literally planned Warcraft 3
You can't frick up as hard as this
>still discussing this as if the story and lore have some merit left
Does any MMO do?
No, which is why so many morons acting as if an MMO's story is good or bad actually matters is so baffling to me.
Aren't the Void Lords still the biggest bads though?
The last huge WoW lore retcon I remember established that Void Lords lurk outside of the known universe and can't enter it without the help of a corrupted Titan egg thing, like the one incubating inside Azeroth. And they can only spawn Old Gods in our dimension.
Or was that plot point dealt with in Legion or something? I quit at SoO patch.
Legion firmly established Void Lords as Titan tier for the Void. The Eternal Ones was just Shadowlands continuing that by making a Titan tier pantheon for Undeath. Then they made the First Ones on top of all the Titan tier pantheons, as the true mysterious beings of the cosmos do to Titan lore getting over-explained by the time of Legion and losing all their mystery.
no, im almost 90% that in the upcoming expansions it will turn out that the void lords arent really that bad, and they are just fighting the light, which we might think is good, but its actually a bit evil too
they are already pushing that narrative
Weren't Light mind breaking rape dungeons in Legion already? I think I've heard something along those lines in these threads at some point.
yeah, turns out the light is actually all about controlling you
they are already making schizo characters like Tyralion or whatever his name is and that Draenei b***h being obsessed with the light and turning into c**ts
Turalyon was here since Warcraft 2
ok? i didnt say otherwise?
Yeah, Legion had the Prime Naaru try to forcefully turn Illidan to the light, like it did to a Dreadlord
yeah that's why illidan nuked that one naaru. the light is gonna be evil at some point and be a big bad. perhaps the big bad.
>the light is gonna be evil at some point
Not IS, but WAS. Metzen is back writing, and Metzen likes old school fantasy with OBJECTIVE good and evil. The Light is good, period. It is pure. Danuser and his filth dungeon of a writing team are the moronic homosexuals who want everything to be edgy evil and wrote the moronic Legion shit. It will never come to fruition and will never be built on again.
Ah yes Metzen.
The same Metzen who approved Scarlets between Vanilla till he left back in Legion.
That Metzen. The Metzen who hates the idea of evil light.
But also signed off on a story about a Naaru forcefully corrupting people with light.
The same Metzen who approved multiple zealot light cults.
That Metzen
I'm sure in the case of "evil light" it's very easy to argue that "too much of a good thing is bad.
Blizzard lazily borrows stuff from Forgotten Realms and too much light in that setting gives you cancer and makes your house hold appliances become sentient.
>too much light in that setting gives you cancer and makes your house hold appliances become sentient.
Eh? I tought positive energy just makes living creatures blow up via overexposure, this it the first time I´m haring about it giving you cancer or animating things. Can I get a QRD on that, please?
>already pushing that narrative
morons keep pushing this when it was established in fricking Vanilla by the Scarlet Crusade that the Light isn't inherently good, it works for anyone who has the conviction that what they're doing is right. It's then reinforced by Tirion Fordring "regaining" his Paladin abilities after they were "stripped" from him by the original leaders of the Silver Hand because it turns out no mere mortal has the ability to actually take the Light from you, he just lost his faith that he could use it. And then when he finds his faith again the Light comes back.
You b***h about the direction the story is taking and you don't know important shit that's been part of the lore for nearly 20 years
>call him the Jailer
>he's not actually the warden of the Maw
>he's just another prisoner
>Zovaal's exile was done at the highest level of Shadowlands admin
>it's still common knowledge that the Maw has a Jailer
>"nothing escapes the Maw"
>the plot of the entire expansion is started by Kyrian leaving the Maw to abduct people from Azeroth
>Zereth Mortis requires keys from all the Eternal Ones to enter
>the Jailer threw a grappling hook at it and tore off a chunk before he had the keys
>a bunch of Brokers found out how to open a portal there without the keys centuries before the Jailer got free
>"no one escapes the Maw"
>the Jailers forces constantly leave the Maw all through the Covenant campaigns
Why do people pretend that Warcraft EVER had good lore?
It's more that the ground-level adventure setting is one of the best there is, better than shit like DnD or Pathfinder, but once you get into the upper-workings of politics or world-threats it becomes one of the worst fricking things ever written.
People are now not capable of making friendships. Nobody but some turbonerd like Nobbel gave two fricks about the lore, while most people made their own adventures with their friends. Imagination also helped a lot, because things were more vague, but WoW now is a themepark with very clear shit like XY happened and you have to kill X so Y can happen.
Back then it was there is a dragon and the sword icon, so you can kill it. No one gives a frick why.
99% of good shit what comes from WoW wwere these memorable moments you did with others. The culture shifted and WoW became a single player MMO, filled with people who are shallow as frick IRL and use the game as a wessel to achieve something due to lacking the sense of accomplishment IRL.
Now its a megalarp with nuDisney elements that we unite against the big bad (for the 7th time), and strong wimin as leaders is just modern mental illness. People never cared about which recolored dragon they killed. Jaina, Tyrande was a hot b***h and thats it. The only thing people ever gave two shits about was the Lich king. If you strip down the mysticism and Arthas' status from wotlk you now remember that the expansion itself was not good.
Mopgays are the worst offenders to this as they believe their shitty gag character was more than a pandering to the chinese audience, and made an entire expansion out of it.
People liked Kael'thas as well tbh before TBC ruined him.
people like illidan/kael/vashj/high elves/old draenei/etc before TBC fricking ruined them
to this day I still maintain that TBC is the worst fricking expansion, even more so than Shadowlands or whatever the current shit is, because at least now people already expect it to be shit
>to this day I still maintain that TBC is the worst fricking expansion
agreed
it ruined so much about wc3 it's crazy it doesn't get more shit for how terrible and how much damage it did
not only lore-wise, it introduced so much garbage that fundamentally changed the game for the worse, like flying/dailies/pvp gear/pvp stat/shit dungeons/smaller raids/destroying the uniqueness of the factions by introducing palies and shamans to everyone, cos they were too lazy/inept to actually balance them, etc
yeah nobody gave a frick about him. There were 2 types of people invested in that crap expansion: Chinese farmers and those who participated in the "will the rogue bis drop?" raid. That was all to it.
There is an absolute mysticism when it comes to the "big three". TBC definitely kickstarted this modern rush to max level to raid cringe, which was Tigole's idea, as he slowly kicked off the core vanilla members and replaced them with his poopsock cabal. The philosophy of the expansion just reeks from this shift from vanlilla philosophy, as its more a metalhead hikers into a stinky nerd who thinks farming the same exact boss is fun, and should have been bullied harder in school.
Its why people like Preach who are completely devoit of what is actually fun because MUH BIS have this fond memory with it. Now all other content creators too desperately trying to push this Chorogonslop is ACKshully good type of gaslighting too, as if it wasn't ultra clear Blizzard shits on the people who were actually their fans 15+ years ago.
The only good thing what came out from TBC were the draenei.
If you like vanilla you're just a braindead third worlder
Thats funny, because thirdies were the ones who liked the expansions.
>no one gives a frick why
Maybe on a surface level, but context goes a long way towards making a game like this immersive and sort of meaningful in your mind. It's why even RuneScape, which was originally just some dumb Java browser game programmed by a bored college student, eventually fleshed out its world and made everything in it have a reason for being there.
>Mopgays are the worst offenders to this as they believe their shitty gag character was more than a pandering to the chinese audience, and made an entire expansion out of it.
It was the first time since Vanilla they had tried to truly do something new with the setting and not just rely on old plot threads from War3. It's really unfortunate that people still, to this day, dismiss MoP like this.
It was really eye opening when TBC Classic came out and everyone realized right away that it's the raidlog expansion and opinion on it quickly turned from the warm nostalgia they used to have for it.
Vanilla was designed to be a world for players to inhabit, while TBC was designed for people to do dungeons and treat the game more like a, well, game.
>It's really unfortunate that people still, to this day, dismiss MoP like this.
it doesn't help in the slightest that kung fu panda was a thing before this, setting the stage for people to immediately dismiss pandaren as blizzard chasing the dreamworks trend.
sucks too, cause MoP was the last good expansion, and that makes 2 good expansions out of what, 10?
It's terrible since Pandaria actually felt like a cohesive setting unlike most places introduced in WoW. Also the alliance starting zone was awesome, fortunate son starts playing chopper door gunner sequence into GlowBlack person turning the locals into terrorists to fight the reds. What a ride.
MMO are dead wow killed human interaction that fact is shit like VRchat is a far better platform the people make the content and live in and exp it.
I don't buy this. I really think that people just stopped trying to socialize because the systems of modern MMOs no longer force you to. It isn't that people don't want to, and in fact, if you try to talk to people they will usually respond.
The problem is you typically have to be the one to initiate interactions.
Everyone knows discord and other platforms killed the social net work system of MMOS. People forget before MMOS you just has shitty chatrooms and no actual incentive to talk to strangers. MMOs filled that niche, but now you can just pop into a discord while playing a singleplayer game and even stream it.
I always thought player made content was the future of MMOs like SL. EQN looked promising until glows killed it.
I for one liked it when I was young, and therefore want it to be good.
But I quit after LK and just get more and more disappointed whenever I visit these threads
well yeah, cos when you were a kid, you probably havent read all the real works that warcraft just stole their story from
Up to WC3 it was fine
it was serviceable at best, lmao
it was never "good"
I said fine, aka. serviceable, nothing special, okay, fun
That's why I said fine, there are many better stories
Learn to read
>lets just make an amalgamation of warhammer/lotr/asoiaf/lovecraft/ etc other shit we enjoy and put it in our game
i mean no, it was never really good
maybe on planet moron...
So Earth?
base game yeah
frozen throne goes a little moronic
it was fine when the power level force shit was limited to "undead" and "demon", so it had a purist essence where in you could care little about the lore and still have fun killing gnolls and zombies. People don't give a shit about the inner workings of "The Void" or "The Light", and people certaintly don't give a shit about that cosmic alignment map. It's like they forgot it's supposed to be a fantasy game where you kill cool shit and make a cool character, you know, like D&D. Void lords and Naaru were cool when they were mysterious, same with ressurection.
i see this all as a symptom of modern entertainment in general. EVERY little aspect has to be explained or extrapolated upon until each little minutia with little to no story behind it is fleshed out and understandable to the point that there is no mystery anymore.
it cannot just be people making shit up anymore while the main idea is left intentionally vague and inconclusive. it HAS to be defined and it HAS to make sense or else some autist is going to have a neverending melty about how something that is clearly not supposed to make sense, must make sense
hol up
the original name of Jailer is J'lor?
No, it's Zovaal.
We call him J'lor cause it's funny.
No, they just spent the entirety of Dragonflight following up on a plot beat from Shadowlands.
No it's some other nonsense that was revealed well into the expansion.
Are they pretending shadowlands never happened yet?
i think even blizzard is pretending it didnt happen
and you can imagine how fricking SHIT it was, considering their hubris, they usually always pretend to be right
How did he lose even though he had all the infinity sigils?in
Because he had to face -ME- 🙂
Players didn't stand in his telegraphed blue fire.
Because stories in MMO's are trash
>Giga big black dragon that causes a cataclysm
>Gets rekt by sweaty nerds.
I hope this becomes a plotpoint in the future but knowing blizz Im thinking it was an oversight
The Jailors goal was to get the dreadlords to corrupt Argus's soul, kill it, and break the arbiter. They successfully pulled that off. But that wasnt the first dreadlord corrupt titan soul to die. Thousands of years ago, Sargeras found a void corrupt world with the dreadlords on it. The dreadlords told him it was corrupt and that Sargeras had to kill it. Thats what started the entire burning legion. So what happened to that world soul? Was it not corrupted enough? Did the arbiter successfully sort it? I unironically hope this comes up in the next few expansions
>Tremble, mortals, you face Archimonde the defiler
>Tremble, mortals, you face Kil’Jaeden the deceiver
>Tremble, mortals, you face Algalon the Raid Destroyer
>Tremble, mortals, you face The Lich King
>Tremble, mortals, you face Deathwing
>Tremble, mortals, you face Sargeras the Dark Titan
>Tremble, mortals, you face… the Jailer? Lol, lmao even
>Tremble, mortals, you face JARAXXUS YOU FACE JARAXXUS YOU FACE JARAXXUS
FLESH TROMBONE
AS YOUR FEEBLE MAGIC……
….
……
BETRAAAAAAAAAYS YOU
EREDAR LORD OF THE TRIFLING GNOME
My homies.
WoW hasnt been canon since TBC dropped
he cute
still better villain story that the cringy time traveling shit in WoD
They wanted the Thanos audience so bad
I'm still upset they retconned the KT/Arthas/Anub relationship into Everyone hating each other, especially KT secretly hating Arthas while secretly serving J'Lor.
>KT and Arthas casually bantering in vanilla WC3
>Calling Arthas king in TFT
>"You've been a good...friend, Kel'Thuzad."
Teenage me felt a pang in my heart that the word 'friend' still existed in Arthas' vocabulary
...why did that homosexual feel the need to shit all over arthas and ktz's friendship from wc3?
what the frick
Modern Blizz developers hate the original games because the audience still uses it as a reference for “when wow was good”. Miserable people.
Pure spite
The worst retcon was keeping Arthas alive. The whole point of the story was that he lost his soul to the sword. During WoW they then had the soulless Arthas kill off Ner'zhul by outsouling him somehow. Absolutely moronic.
Arthas should have died in full the moment he fused with Ner'zhul, neither should have been the dominant personality. His soul WAS alive though, that part isn't a retcon. But what they did with it in Shadowlands was pointless. Why have it there? What did it actually contribute to the plot? It was nothing more than a humiliation ritual by writers who had inherited Arthas' legacy and whose plots lived in his shadow.
Like the back-handed rant a rat gives in shadow, that they're far too craven to say to someone's face.
Ner'zhul was just a trapped soul. The fuse was giving him Arthas' soulless body. Anything else doesn't make sense in the context of WC3.
The biggest joke of shadowlands isnt the jailor but the fact a troony is now in charge of the afterlife wearing lich kings helmet
>wearing lich kings helmet
Huh?
it's been reforged into a more gender-inclusive crown
so everything is alright
Looks like a generic leveling zone green quest reward
Disgusting
what were they THINKING
>helm of domination become burger king crown
This has to be intentional sabotage. People on the dev team must be actively trying to kill modern WoW
theyre actually just that stupid
Nah they are geniuses with the marketing, because its working. This way they convince people what they loved about the things back then were bad, and the new things like the narrative is good now. This is why they humiliated the lich king too and made Borvar a b***h who jobs to Sylvanas, which in no fricking way would have worked, unless its some stupid shit plothole in the lore which is covered by a hack writer to push the plot forward.
making bolvar the b***h king was moronic in the first place
>muh there always must be an lich king
because... because reasons?
I doubt that's working to their benefit if true
The core philosophy of vanilla was get lost in the woods and make your own adventure, with a lot of added flavor. This became to if your ilevel is not 9001 you are not coming with us.
The playerbase is not the same anymore, the people who still play this shit are trannies, chinkfarmers, and collectors, and more importantly: solo players.
Blizzard is very very aware they are incapable of creating aything good, thats why they cash out on the game, while doing massive retcons and character assasinations.
You get that sense throughout Shadowlands. As if they were intentionally trying to piss off remaining veteran Warcraft fans, especially when it comes to how they handled Arthas.
What the frick were they thinking? Who even is this guy?
AFK mission table unit
Elevated to godhood as part of the Shadowlands diversity initiative (they’re FTM)
It was part of his plan
why did they 3d print a robot with nipples
Same reason they 3D Printed a Moon Goddess who could have children with animals.
They're all sex bots.
>another scheduled /wowg/ /i/nvasion
No one cares
Yes, yes, we all know J'Lor was moronic
What the frick could possibly be a bigger threat than the end of existence? Is the last boss of WoW going to be Metzen himself?
still sargeras, apparently
The End. It will be entropy or something similar.
isnt that basically Chaos, in their new shitty cosmic canon
No, Chaos/Fel is still something.
The mystery devourer monsters in SL just eat everything, so the final boss is probably Nonexistence.
So the Void Lords?
Why do "writers" keep doing this?
The picture you posted does not accurately convey how laughable The Witness actually looks.
Those new super ancients come back and want to erase the universe to make a new one or something
The bigger bad got re-conned out and now we are back to more surface level threats. The big bad of the next expansion is going to be some new leader of the bugs. No more off planet threats anymore.
No. The bigger bad is now the knife b***h from Legion. She's been behind everyrthing.
I imagine the last raid will be a bunch of angry morons that couldn't hold it anymore and rush the blizzard HQ.
Could be kino, the tanks take the aggro of the police by wasting their time and flooding their call lines, the dps burn the building and maim everyone inside and the healers gives us booze
Don't forget Sylvanas telling Arthas' soul to go away and be forgotten forever
What did they mean by this?
Anduin is unironically Arthas's bastard son
The latest shit is that half of Arthas' soul is still inside Anduin/his sword.
My favourite part of WoW "lore" is the Alliance and Horde constantly 'discovering' entire continents they've supposedly been flying airships over and and sailing boats past for fifteen years.
Wasn't that just Pandaria?
Look at a Vanilla world map, then look at the current world map. There's suddenly like 4 different island chains/continents where there were none in between Kalimdor and the kingdoms.
Yeah but most of those were already known about, we just didn't have reason to go there
there's no airships in booty bay or ratchet...
Just fly down to Outland there and go through the portal to Blasted Lands lmao
So how did NONE of those islands/continents in this image
get discovered prior to their sudden story relevance?
Zandalar, Kul'tiras, Kezan and the Lost Isles were always there in lore, Vashj'ir was raised from the sea, Broken Isles used to just be the Broken Shore before retcons for more Elfshit. And Pandaria was covered in mist that made it impossible to find up until MoP.
And they used that mist shit with Dragonflight too...
>suspicious blob of mist is always there in the same exact spot every time you fly/sail by
>"reckon we should check that out?"
>"nah, probably nothing"
In a world suffering from weekly world-ending threats, I think the sailors and pilots know better than to poke a giant suspicious meteorological anomaly with a stick
Cowards. That's not how you discover new lands to plunder.
>covered in mists
>its literally the greenest and most lush continent in wow
How does photosynthesis work in the warcraft universe?
Rain forests and coastal forests are famously misty, it’s what allows redwoods to grow to such sizes and also limits them to a very narrow strip along the coast line
The Mists of Pandaria were a powerful spell weaved by The Last Emperor of Pandaria, Shaoshao to protect the lands from the sundering using the magics of the Vale of Eternal Blossoms.
Despite overcoming every emotional sin left behind by the dying breathe of the Old God Y'shaarj, Doubt, Despair, Fear, Anger, Hatred, and Violence. He failed to over-come his pride by choosing to cloak solely the lands of Pandaria in mists, resulting in the Sha of pride/Old God shenanigans corrupting the spell and forcing Pandaria to be lost until the events of MoP. Once the war came close to Pandaria, the veil of mist lifted and the Sha welcomed new mortals who could fuel their powers.
That's the lore reason. It's a mix of old god frickery and Titan magic cursing the lands to not be found until evil wanted them to.
As for the Dragon Isles. That was solely Titan tech cloaking the Isles.
Panda Land was sealed off in magical mist. Dragon Islands was sealed off by titan magic shit because it's a dragon reservation.
Kul'Tiras, Zandalar and The Broken Islands were all known and in the lore but not included on the maps.
Also the modern map size is inconsistent and moronic since most of those are canonically islands with the exception of Pandaland.
>Also the modern map size is inconsistent and moronic since most of those are canonically islands with the exception of Pandaland.
huh?
Christine Golden was notoroious for not having the ability to comprehend that the maps in the game are not 1:1 with the actual places in the setting.
Blizzard trying to make each land mass appear to be the same size due to their actual map size in comparisons is just an extension of that moronation.
oh that b***h is terrible, i remember reading her thrall book as a zoomer back in the day and even then i thought its dogshit, havent touched anything by her since then
same for that absolute hack knaak
Christine was picked up because being a woman she could write conversaitons that sounded "good". She focused on characters, something ideas guys on the dev team sucked at.
However, she's dogshit at any other form of creativity and her inter-character drama is men breaking down crying talking about her feelings. What started out as people praising a few decent "Speeches" in her books that made non-characters sound like characters became Anduin crying in front of Thrall.
Knaak on the other hand, is a grown man playing DND adventures in his head and has no sense of setting tonality.
WoW is the furthest thing from franchises like TeS where you can whacky reality breaking myth shit but the man can't help himself.
I mean look at all his shit
>The power of the sunwell is given shape as a human woman that a blue dragon wanted to frick
>There is a human who can travel into the emerald dream at will because he was kidnapped by a "fey creature" as a baby
>Malfurion has the powers of an actual god.
>The entire crazy bullshit whacky lore of all the dragonflights
It's like the setting is too boring for him.
Don't forget Rhonin. At least it wasn't the Mary Sue that was Me'dan.
i'm kinda sure the map doesn't look like that
Dragon Isles, Zandalar & Kultiras, Broken Isles, Pandaria...
Don't get me started on the Dragon Isles having been off the north coast of the Eastern Kingdoms this whole time and nobody ever noticed.
>b-but it was hidden by abloobloo bla bla
Nah bullshit.
did the ships ever cross those islands?
not defending blizzard crap but it would be a nice touch if somehow the zeppelins and ships never crossed the path of the new islands
I guess you can check out classic/vanilla paths and compare it with retail paths.
Zandalar and Kul'Tiras were known and had interacted with both halves of the world. (Jaina is from Kul'Tiras).
Broken Isles were raised from the depths by Illidan during TFT but retconned to always be there or something since it has all sorts of long standing civs on it.
Pandaria was trapped behind a mystical storm.
Dragon Isles were just lost but are far enough out of any relevant routes that it isn't far fetched that it's just Azeroths Australia.
i thought pandaria was surrounded by mists until the cataclysm, where the mists dissipated. we just didn't discover them as we had a lot of immediate issues to deal with with deathwing
Yes that's the mystical storm; that's why it was called mists of pandaria.
Those islands arent to scale. Kultiras isnt as big as fricking northrend. Its tiny
>suddenly islands grow large
>suddendly
Suddenly, not over time.
its not like wow time passes slowly
remember that ashenvale orc building took 8 years to go from "half-way done" to finished overnight
Continental drift is no joke in Azeroth.
There is no continental drift on Azeroth, ancient maps in Titan facilities show it's static even over eons. The middle just imploded with the Well of Eternity and left an ocean in its place.
Nest part is, they somehow STILL havent discovered THE ENTIRE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD
Here's how you salvage SL in one swoop.
>Denny was the chessman all along and really was working with the Legion the whole time to play the Jailer
Nothing you can do about the crown, Kel, and Arthas, but this fixes the Jailer stuff. How did Jaylor know Saegeras would stab the planet? Because Denny told him, because he was close with Sargeras and KJ.
Sigh... somehow... Illidan/Kill Jaeden/Arthas/Sargeras/Kael Thas/Archimonde/Gul Dan/Kel Thuzsd/Azshara/Vashj/Sylvanas/Old Gods/Ragnaros/Onyxia/Amani Trolls/Medivh/Iron Horde/Deathwing/Malygos/Mal Ganis... have returned...
Literally tje whole story of WoW
Somehow Xal'atath was all behind of this.
God, I hope so.
Why?
Because frick you, that's why.
i still have zero idea who this b***h is and apparently shes getting whole expansion about her?
She's the shadow priest weapon from legion that talks to you
>She's the shadow priest weapon from legion that talks to you
yeah, that doesnt help much, i quit during Cata
She's J'lor 2.0
how come, is she some type of titan or whatever those are called or she just wants to ... jail people... too?
Just like Jailor, out of nowhere she was behind of everything since Warcraft 3/vanilla WoW.
oh, i see
im sure it will be similarly horrible, yeah
She's J'lor 2.0 but this time they did some time travel shit where she shows up a couple of times in Season of Discovery questline (Season of Discovery quests are like untold canon stories from vanilla era they say) so they can create an illusion and make it sound like they planned this over 20 years ago and this is a conclusion to that arc.
And she's just a old god who chose to look like a elf...
>priestrannies
Yeah, I honestly dont know which one is worse, blizzard reusing the same "big name" character like Illidan or Kael Thas thar we had to kill like 5 times because of laziness, or them trying to invent new ones and ending up with shit like the Jailer or whoever the bad guy in Troonflight is..
CAME OUT OF NOWHERE, LIGHTNING FAST
they set it up
You know what could have been fun?
To have a schizo character blabbing nonsense but it was kinda the truth.
Hell, now, whenever I have dumb ideas for my setting, I will write them down, makes them sounds unintelligible and have some random hobo spout them.
Already happened with Il'gynoth
>Flesh is his gift. He is your true creator.
>To find him, drown yourself in the circle of stars.
>The king of diamonds has been made a pawn.
>The lord of ravens will turn the key.
>The boy-king serves at the master's table. Three lies will he offer you.
>Her heart is a crater, and we have filled it.
>Five keys to open our way. Five torches to light our path.
>At the hour of her third death, she will usher in our coming.
>From the earth, he draws strength. Our earth. Our strength.
>Its surface blazes bright, masking shadows below.
Yeah but it's a raid boss formed by some old god from what I've read.
I just want a random schizo (hell, don't even name it, just make a random peon slightly more autistic).
Doomcallers in major cities did this, yelling old god prophesies - end of legion I think
Pure kino
?si=-UlbYH3c-ygmmzYV
Bellular is with the big boys now.
>Welshman is taller than Mick.
Mickbros..
Thought his zipper was open for a sec
eyes on the prize, eh, anon?
wtf is wrong with his head?
Big head to hold all his wisdom
Also, he’s going bald and trying to hide it
I am MATT’s #1 fan!
Where is MATT?
He's Irish.
I'm 33 and I never played WoW. Hypothetically speaking, how does an average joe even get into it in 202X when there's 9000 layers of lore and 9 billion characters after all the expansions? Feels like it's not really worth it at this point.
>how does an average joe even get into it
They simply don't.
you just pick a vanilla/wotlk private server and mess around, the world is great for exploring even if you were never into the game
dont bother with anything blizzard
You play Warcraft 3 and TFT. You then know half of the relevant NPCs who show up in every expansion in wow.
>how does an average joe even get into it in 202X when there's 9000 layers of lore and 9 billion characters after all the expansions?
All 9000 of those layers and all 9 billion of those characters can, will and have been ignored by Blizzard at a moment's notice, so you as a player don't have to care about them either. You play the game, get attached to whatever characters you like, and then boo when Blizzard lobotomizes them and/or makes them gay and/or kills them off.
>Feels like it's not really worth it at this point.
It absolutely isn't.
LITERALLY no one that plays wow actually cares about the lore
You don’t
i never gave a frick about the lore of wow
thats how i always did it
>there's 9000 layers of lore and 9 billion characters after all the expansions?
Irrelevant, the game doesn't care and will make no attempt to catch you up to speed. All that matters to it is that you get pushed into endgame as soon as possible.
>Feels like it's not really worth it at this point.
I'd say it hasn't been worth it for about a decade now.
I'm 33 and have played WoW for 19 years since 2005.
>Feels like it's not really worth it at this point.
you're correct. you missed the glory days. but don't let that stop you from trying the modern game I guess.
But yeah, you missed the "golden age" as they say.
I don't have the updated Dragonflight version of this image but this will help.
He could probably have fun with SoD or Wrath/Cata Classic, but yeah stay away from the modern game if you're not a 5-10+ year veteran.
People have learned that TBC and Wrath are dogshit by now.
People figured out that TBC is the raid log expansion and so opinions on it turned a bit, yes.
However Wrath was as popular as ever. It didn't have as much staying power as Vanilla Classic though because the playerbase is completely cooked. As early as its first phase, people were demanding you be in Sunwell level gear for Wrath leveling dungeons.
I am really curious as to what Cata Classic is going to be like, how people will react to it. Apparently in the beta, Blizzard has buffed world mobs in it quite a bit because there was a perception that Cata is very easy.
Why would you ever even bother with nuwow now especially? The people who you played with made even TBC and wotlk a good experience. Even trial of the crusade which was the most abhorrent shit in Wotlk was somewhat enjoyable with a friend group.
WoW is pure garbage which overstayed its welcome a long time ago, and so did the genre which refused to build on its own principles. The playerbase turned from people I would legit help even IRL to homosexuals, both literally and metaphorically. What is there for you now? I guess you can buy gold from chinese farmers to get into GDKP runs, and parkour in a capital city.
Dragonflight is going to be the new player leveling experience as soon as it ends later this year, and that's about as lore-free of an expansion as you can get. All you need to know is "dragons have been around for at least 10k years and haven't done much lately" and you're set. Anything more than that (excluding a couple references to BFA/Shadowlands in the most recent patch zone) have someone standing there saying "Deathwing was a bad dude also called Neltharion" directly to you.
Play warcraft 3 and play classic until wotlk. Everything after that is not canon and is fanficiton made by people who have no idea what the original lore of the game was.
It's all going according to his master plan.
literally WHO
what a dogshit fricking deisgn
>member necrolytes in war3? we member!
Man, that guy's a real jerk
hes actually a good guy lmao
>he doesnt know
Remember when warcraft was good?
warcraft was ever only good as a means to play DOTA
wow never looked like that
second picture is fan art from hearthstone
good job falling for moronic twitter drama
>2024
>HE STILL SUPPORTS BLIZZARD
WoW never looked like the 1995 pic either.
i need someone to steal the ebon blade death knights & lich king storyline from wow and put it in another video game, same aesthetic
it's criminal that the class is stuck in this stupid fricking game
Still better than S*lvanas
the shilling for the next expansion will probably be fricking worse than Dragonflight's which turned out to be mediocre as frick
imagine making alt friendliness one of the main selling points for your next expansion
what are you on about schizo, literally no one was hyped about troonyflight and no one is hyped for whatever shit is coming out next
stop repeating buzzwords when they dont fit
holy new gay
nice try champ, been on here since 2009
clueless mong
I'm interested in the next expansion purely because 3 of the 4 zones are underground. I hope its layered like made in abyss instead of what I assume it will be which is all 3 underground zones being on the same x axis
I liked Sneedoflight thoughbeit, it was a good expansion besides the dogshit story and characters.
Really wish you homosexuals would stop trying to force this Reddit meme.
at risk of sounding like an asmongold fan the game just needs a major reset
they should have moved on to a sequel years ago because they're completely incapable of adding to the game without disrupting existing systems or obsoleting older content
it's an incredibly bloated overdesigned mess with a huge burden of knowledge problem, the kind of game where if you haven't been playing it for years already you're just completely lost
It really is like the game is just this massive pile of bullshit, and they keep piling on and piling on and hoping what's buried deep underneath doesn't break under the pressure. But everyone who's played it recently knows the cracks are showing. NPCs and mobs spawning under the map. Broken NPC pathing. NPCs calling you "%N" instead of your character's name. That annoying fricking bug where an NPC will turn towards you like a dialogue box is supposed to appear, but none does, and you have to run ten yards away to reset them and try again.
>imagine making alt friendliness one of the main selling points for your next expansion
which everyone fricking wants?
hello
>IMAGINE BEING EXCITED FOR SOME YOU WANT
damnzamn!!?
And also a fricking robit.
Alright I'll be the one to say it: I didn't hate Fyrakk.
Personality-wise, his character kind of shines as the type of guy who's both too full of himself to realize an issue, to the point where even Vyranoth realizes the plan is too far from it's original destination and ditches him. AND Iridikron. The entire time he's a pompous butthole spouting "Neener neener" flying over entire zones just to laugh at you, and when his minions are struggling to open the dream barrier BOTH OF THEM FULL WELL KNOWING he can do it himself in 1 slice of the stupid fire axe, he would rather keep taunting you.
>Dude we've been trying to open this barrier for weeks can you PLEASE use the axe??
>FRICK YOU I'll use the axe! And you know what? *Turns him to charchoal* Maybe you fricks will SPEED IT UP a bit
He had a nice self-contained plot that happens to mess with the plans of another goodguy plot happening at the same time. Despite him being an incredibly predictable appearance in the story "Oh no we were too late to stop Raszageth from freeing them from prison!!" he managed to take his short-lived appearance worthwhile.
>Deathwing was a chump for being corrupted by Shadowflame! Here let me try it!
>Immediately becomes corrupted
>Oh those fricks are trying to make a new world tree? Alright new plan: Frick the world tree.
>Vyranoth: Dude our plan was to just kill all the Titan-Dragons, what happened to that?
I didn't completely hate 10.2 but boy there was some cringe moments.
Like, of fricking course the female dragon joins the good guy side. I liked her, it was cool seeing her interact with various dragon factions across Azeroth, but it's just so typical that the female villain is the sympathetic one who defects.
And don't get me started on the Avengers scene where every random butthole shows up at just the right time to stand up to Fyrakk while he and Alexstrasza are fighting. You know whoever planned that scene was some cringe basedlord Marvel fan.
>You know whoever planned that scene was some cringe basedlord Marvel fan.
Don't care. Gelbin showed up to punch an elf and I clapped at my monitor.
>2024
>trooncraft
grim
You homies keep acting like he's Thanos, when the guy's clearly a worse Darkseid.
Thanos had a shitload of build up and backstory around him referenced everywhere
This guy was shoehorned last minute. Shadowlands were mentioned before and existed in lore but not the jailor
>This guy was shoehorned last minute.
Congratulations, you now know half of Darkseids appearances in DC comics.
It's believed that Shadowlands was heavily retconned before release as they had to quickly scrub the expansion of Afrasiabi's writing after he was fired for sexual misconduct, which is why the expansion is such a narrative mess on top of being kind of boring where almost nothing of any real interest happens.
I recall that there was a bunch of plot threads that were just straight up removed with nothing to replace them, the most notable of which was that Anduin was Arthas and Jaina's secret child whom Jaina gave to the Wrynns to raise because she saw Arthas every time she looked at him. It would make a lot of sense what with Anduin then becoming Arthas 2.0 in Shadowlands, and how he's now in his "punished" emo phase in War Within.
>Anduin is Jaina's secret child
That's pretty bad
Anduin being the secret love child of Arthas and Jaina was always headcanon tbh. Christie had a thing for the longest time in the books for making comparisons between Anduin and Arthas and that peaked with the mind control plot in SL.
But we know for a fact that shit like Baine's entire storyline that expansion and the Drust storyline got scrapped midway through development do to backroom drama.
90% of the janky dogshittery that was SL content cadence and story incoherence came down to a confluence of a few long term problems overlapping as an actual black swan event (COVID) happened
>the actual production pipeline inside the team imploded when COVID forced WFH
>BFA was an actual trainwreck that derailed itself and had to be reworked mid-work flow which fricked the internal schedules (the devs even admitted the final patch was content light and focused on recycled assets but misleadingly implied it was so they could get the SL alpha right)
>the writers are fricking terrible, its true, but they are also very keyed into player feedback to the point of being defensive and panicky, the memeing on BFA made them rewrite SL halfway through production which dovetailed with the actual content production problems caused by the BFA backup and WFH transition
>after Afrasiabi was canned no one was actually placed in his old position as creative lead, Danuser was the most senior member and a terrible story idea guy but there was no one actually at the wheel
>the terrible salaries for mid and lower level staff and constant corporate directed layoffs had been causing severe institutional knowledge and IP familiarity attrition on the team for years leading up to SL
Remember that bizarre fricking trailer they released for 9.2 where they got some deer-in-headlights developers in front of the camera and made them talk about the new content island?
It was really emblematic of what was going on at Blizzard at the time. A complete internal mess, a headless chicken running around aimlessly.
the marketing team is made up of Californian urbanites and so they genuinely thought attaching human faces to the game would soften the criticism because internet chuds would see them and think "hey, I may be paying monthly for a dog shit video game with no updates for 7 months and they are actively murdering an IP I enjoy but gosh darnit they are trying their best", unfortunately that has never worked and the people they chose were all bizarre unlikeable autists and trannies who did nothing but stiltedly repeat marketing approved tag lines and talk about how good everything is actually
All WoW villains are terrible, even Arthas. At their last moments they regret everything like pussies.
Garrosh is the only one who doesn't do this and goes out saying "I'd do it all again".
That is a true villain.
The current endboss is a direct copy.
>wants to genocide anyone that isn't a pure member of their own race
>digs up a void-touched power source from 10,000 years ago
>gets high on it so they can genocide even harder
>no regrets
The current endboss is just Starscream.
yeah but the issue is Garrosh as an end boss was built up for 3+ expansions while the current end boss, even if they act the same, is literally who anon?
>Built up
Poorly. Garrosh was supposed to be the horde without the perpetually gay "The horde will be good in the end" bait posts.
You had an Orky leader with ambition, but nobody on the team seemed to like him.
Thrall tried to protect him from what his father became, which was tyrannical and his thirst for war and having the true horde occur, is why he drank the demon blood and doomed his race.
Although Grom undoes this and saves himself and dies in warcraft 3, when Garrosh learns the truth, he goes down the same road as his father and even goes back in time in WoD to try let his ambitions occur without failure (which leads to his death).
I think how they handled Garroshs story was kinda shit and Thrall being the one to kill him via cheating was dumb too.
But I think they had that outcome and storyline planned for awhile.
I'm pretty sure there are a few quotes about Metzen about he had other ideas for Garrosh but was outnumbered.
>built up
There was constant seething from Dagger in the Dark to SoO because so many people thought his heel turn came out of nowhere.
So who is the big bad this time?
A knife wearing an Elven skin suit. That may or may not end the expansion in another Elven skin suit.
Clearly Azeroth
You expect the planet wont be corrupted when its hosting 5 old gods
the new nerubian humanoid furgay models are so incredibly disappointing as a nerubian enjoyer it is genuinely difficult to put into words
it is absolutely incredible how badly the art direction in the franchise has declined over the years
Is Dragonflight fun? I haven't played since Legion and am interested in coming back.
They broke down and listened to the "stop making us do chores" feedback, so the answer is however you answer the following:
>my idea of fun is doing raid/M+/pvp for the week and then logging onto the next character to do it again
The only new feature is that you have to do physics-based flying to get between places.
>doing raid/M+/pvp for the week and then logging onto the next character to do it again
It's so sad that this is all WoW will ever be now. Just rats running through hallways endlessly, hoping that the cheese at the end was actually worth the effort. No community, no fun, just endless chasing of higher numbers.
WELL ISNT THAT JUST SOMETHING A GRRAY PARSING SCRUBNUB WOULD SAY
It's better than BfA/Shadowlands but worse than Legion.
The chores are still there, they're just world quests and timed events rather than daily quests.
>people are starting to realize this swansong of an expansion was the last good expansion of wow
>not only did it give players things from classic wow to mop wow which were forever lost like classic quests, class lore etc, but it was the redemption story of illidan that Metzen hinted towards wanting to do during the Cataclysm expansion reveal blizzcon
>metzen left blizzard after Legion ended
Apologize.
>legion
>good
Putting some sprinkles on a turd doesn't make it good
Walords of Draenor was a turd.
Legion, they took the turd, threw it in the garbage, and begged for forgiveness and then handed you a lump of gold.
If you told me the same dev team who did Legion also did BFA and Shadowlands, id not think it be true.
Legion was awful timegated rng shit. The raids sucked wiener and PvP was completely dead. Legendary system was the absolute worst set of shit anyone had ever seen. People put it on a pedestal because they came back during the last patch when they finally almost fixed the shit systems they added.
>The raids sucked
some of the best raids and dungeons in legion, sucked? did you play it?
>People put it on a pedestal because they came back during the last patch
I played it from launch until the day it ended. That isn't true, at least for me.
I got every class/spec in the games hidden appearences and mage tower appeances. Mythic+ was the peak in legion. World quests were the best in Legion.
Notice even still in Dragonlfight, they use systems from Legion but way worse.
Your memory must be filled with nostalgia for fricking LEGION if you think any of the legion dungeons or raids were any good or you never did any of the keys
Are you forgetting that it had fricking VH AGAIN, that didn't even have m+, maw of souls, court of stars with the shitty mechanics, karazhan again to feed off that shitty nostalgia, that fricking argus dungeon that nobody in their right mind would ever want to do
And for the raids the emerald dream which is just regular spots in the world but with BRANCHES and red
Nighthold which was overtuned as frick and was undoable with most groups, you didn't even get to fight sargeras at the end but instead the final boss is some fricking random moron that got shoehorned last minute just like the jailor
Legion was shit
>Only mentions troony content
Typical Legion hater.
>raids and dungeons is "troony content"
What isn't then? Elaborate on us why you think legion was good
Legion also had really uneven class content, they really fricking phoned in some of the order halls and class quest chains. Just compare DK to priest or hunter
The legendary abilities were fun in an ASShomosexualS way. That skin challengemode instance was kinda cool too.
Suramar looked good but felt kinda empty for all the visuals that went into it
Investors didn't let people fight Sargeras because they know all the WoW boomers would leave knowing the story was over.
The story was over with wrath of the lich king
No. The Frozen Throne was a cool sub story and Arthas was a good Hero turned villian but the overarching story of the three RTS's was that evil demons were the masterminds of all the war.
Sargeras became the ultimate big bad and because WoW didn't structure their gods as "things untouchable by mortals that are supposed to serve as background forces", the prospect of fighting Sargeras was an actual thing.
That's what keeps the WoW boomer playing even if the lore has been so twistedly ass raped that the completely nonsense off the wall "we just made it up" expansions outnumber the short list of logical, desirable expansions dreamed of in the TBC days.
They're collecting dildos for gay furry dragons while patiently waiting for the day they'll killed Sargeras in a 40 man that they've had carved into their brain since Vanilla.
>Apologize.
>To the Alliance fanwank expansion that ruined the setting so bad it resulted in things like Shadowlands.
Gonna be a no from me dawg
yeah they really did do Vol'jin dirty.
No it wasn't. Nothing after WOTLK was good. This was just more playable than cata, pandaria and wod. Also the game should've died in pandaria, really looked like it was gonna. The setting might've been terrible but at least the gameplay was still okay then.
Panda was unfairly shat on. If the setting just lacked the pandas people would loved it. The expansion was even very good at cleaning up old lore segments and binding them in a satisfying way, such as Troll history.
The only redeeming factor of pandaria was Garrosh. If he wasn't there or involved it would've been the worst expansion even lower than bfa
Why?
>Interesting not China setting
>Mogu were cool
>Mantid were alright until "we're bugs so we have to worship Old Gods, sorry"
>Zandalar were cooler than they were in BFA
It was only considered bad because of Pandas and because of the problem
mentions where people expect POWER LEVEL tiered threats. Narratively the game was creeping worse than shonenshit, sometimes the bad guy needs to be some ancient Chinese lion man conqueror who just wants to bring his empire back and not some world destroying force.
yeah, panda felt like a vacation from the save the world bullshit. Whole first zone was trying to hammer home "calm the frick down, panda has its own things to do"
Legion felt like the point of no return for WoW's narrative. Sure people who live in the moment and enjoy every little bump to the dopamine rule of cool stories give enjoyed Legions narrative. But if you ever end up looking back at it, you can see all the cracks that modern wow's narrative has stem from the choices Legion made.
I'd kill to go back to a quiet and simple story like Pandaria again, hell, Dragonflight was looking to be that until they had to change the plot to set up World Soul Saga.
The cracks in the narrative began in cataclysm, but blizzard pulled away from it with MoP and WoD. Legion brought it back partially and this opened it up to BFA which is the direct sequel to Catalcysms story beats, almost being exactly what people thought the "South Sea's Expansion" was after Cata,
>WoD
>Not a crack in the narrative
It was a fricking crater
NTA, but I'd argue the worst of WoD's narrative changes stemmed from when they decided to try and set up Legion. The Demon retcon was infamous back in the day when they announced it for WoD, but that all got quickly swept under the rug when it allowed for Legion's rule of cool to sink in and have people fight Demons again.
WoD was indeed but because it sunk so fast it was almost like a bad cross over episode in a saturday morning cartoon.
It's only direct relation in any lore is bringing Gul'dan back to spark Legion and an excuse to populate the Horde with more orcs in BfA.
Otherwise, in terms of the accumulating moron drama between faction leaders known as World of Sylvanas Craft it didn't play a part.
All of that shit was a thing born of one godawful Post-Wotlk story and blizzard pushing a bad war narrative, beginning in cata.
Cata had the twlights, it had Deathwing, but it was 90% gay faction war bullshit and the first true drama-piece where the faction leaders became the main characters and (you) were the cameraman.
This was worse than Wotlk making (you) the Saturday morning cartoon character foiling Arthas.
were alright until "we're bugs so we have to worship Old Gods, sorry"
but this wasn't surprising right from their introduction they said they worship old gods
>legion was good
No it fricking wasn't, stop romanticising the last patch of the expansion. Let's sum up all the things Legion actually did
>highest ability pruning of any expansion
>"legendary" system in place that was so awful it was faster to bring the same class up to max level and get your first leggo than it would be to get your SECOND leggo on a class you already have one on
>preset pvp stats being dogshit
>terribly slow AP grind that forced you into doing world quests to stay relevant
>artefact relics were complete rng and was placed alongside dungeon loot, meaning more time spent grinding the same shit because whoops the last 5 loot drops you had were relics
>switching main specs was a pain because you had to re-farm all that ap AGAIN
>ap grinding dungeons were nerfed because blizzard didn't like you gaining ap quickly
>trinkets were just dull, no interesting effects, just stat sticks and "has a % chance to do something"
>emerald nightmare being a rather boring raid
>nighthold was okay, and tomb of sargeras was actually really solid
>M+ dungeons were boring, no route variations
>NO ODIN I TOO HAVE PROVED MY WORTH
>questing was kinda fun
>balance of power quest was ass, and at the time it was relevant, was almost necessary if you were doing heroic or higher
There's a few more gripes but the post is already long enough as it is so I'll leave it there
I was really looking forward to Wrath classic but had IRL shit going on for the year or so after it released. Are they ever gonna do fresh servers again or did I miss out forever?
They vowed to never do freshes again because chuddies
So far it isn't looking like they're going to do any new servers for expansion eras. And I get why, the game is already split five fricking ways.
>Retail
>Classic Era (+ SoD is its own thing as well)
>Wrath Classic
>Hardcore
>Plunderstorm
And soon they're going to do MoP Remix, which is ITS own walled off closed system until it ends.
i imagine the seasonal style of MoP remix is the future of classic
which i'm actually tempted by. mists was a good time
MoP Remix just sounds like SoD but on retail.
It seems what happens is someone at Blizzard saw the success of OSRS leagues and decided they should do that too. Well, it seems to be working, so who can blame them.
The problem with MoP Remix though is that it likely is going to use Dragonflight talent trees and class design.
>The problem with MoP Remix though is that it likely is going to use Dragonflight talent trees and class design.
what makes you think that? they already have 5.3 shit ready to go
Well, the fact that they didn't mention MoP talent trees or class design in the news post, and that MoP Remix is using the retail client.
i think its pretty same to presume it will be using mists era stuff, they'd have said otherwise. 'new updated talents!' or whathaveyou
>Friend sends me a picture he found funny from reddit.
>It's this thread.
Which one of you frickers is farming karma here?
anon, there are multiple subreddits that exist solely to talk about shit they find on Ganker
That subreddit? /wowg/
It's pretty sad to see SoD imploding when the first phase was actually pretty fun. But frick has it just gotten worse and worse, with the latest phase being the most retail-infested bullshit imaginable. I can't even conceive how bad the level 60 content will be.
The old game with fanfic-tier zones would have been better than whatever they did with abilities
well, given current power levels there's no reason to do anything below naxx minus a few pieces once 60 comes out. makes me wonder if they'll do AQ gate just to see how autistic people get about scarab lords
>retail-infested bullshit
Let me guess, you're another wrathbaby screaming "RETAIL" about incursions when the entire system is a 1:1 copypaste of Silithus Field Duty content, a VANILLA setup.
so what happened in shadowlands anyway?
the jailor killed something and can leave the maw and get the inifinity stones or something?
They actually had an infinity stones patch, players tried* to stop J’lor from collecting THE SIGILS
You actually left the maw as soon as you arrived and really nearly every named character seemed to come and go from the Maw whenever they wanted (despite it being inescapable)
Jailer was killed and an AFK mission table transsexual was made the new god of the universe and wears Arthas’ helm (reforged) as a crown now (Pelegos)
Jailer, with his dying breath, justified his actions by saying ‘ I had to do it to save the world from…. Something vague….’
(Writers hadn’t decided what it was yet)
is actually a fairly accurate summary
>So what happened in Shadowlands.
Shadowlands was a heist movie.
Years of planning between Sire D and J'lor for the ultimate heist, stealing the keys to reality itself. Of course like any good heist flick you need others to help out. So they made a gang, got Kel'thuzard working on a con in Maldraxxus. Helya in as the get away driver. Mueh'zala in as a you scratch our back, we'll scratch yours guy so go make a mess in Ardenweald. Deimos looking to undermine security in Bastion. Sire D's Dreadlord agents such as Mal'ganis and finally the dumbass fall guy Syvlanas who they could gaslight into helping with their plans.
And it would've worked too! If it wasn't for those meddling adventurers not killing Sylvanas when they had the chance and having her help free Anduin.
J'lor then went on to become Mata Nui
No you see, OP was only being a homosexual all this time to stop an even bigger homosexual from posting threads
No one's less hetero than lore turfers
we probably won't fight xalatath until the third expansion in the series
>Blizzard actually trying new things with SoD (even if it is a shitty pserver ripoff), Plunderstorm and now this MoP thing
>Think it might be fun to try them
>Realize that it's still the same people that made classic/retail an absolute unfun chore to play that are playing those things
whos the shittier villain?
Interesting WoW characters you have there.
whats that from?
he was a good friend
so what exactly happened between the phases of SoD? 1-25 was fantastic, but it just got awful in phase 2 and 3 was even worse
blizzard being blizzard
Likely they had much more time to work on phase 1 and the last two phases have been phoned in in a much more rushed manner.
>Classic team can commit more recourses to SoD for phase 1.
>Classic team then leaves the small SoD team to do the next 3 phases, while main team works on Cata.
>This is on top of members of the team already being spread out to finish off Wrath and likely help churn out assets for retail's midnight expansion which is getting made alongside WW.
Basically, just a recourse thing.
At least Cata might be worth playing. A while back when they were running surveys about it, they hinted that Cata Classic may be heavily changed from its original version.
And now in the beta people are saying that the overworld has been buffed to be much more difficult, as one of the biggest complaints about Cata is how easy it is and how the overworld had no sense of danger.
The Jailor's design could have worked, they just needed to ditch the shit tier armour design. His face is just the right mix of serious, funny, and expressive. It's a bit too friendly for a complete villain, though.
They also needed to drop the personality made up of overblown raid dialogue, but it's Blizzard, so that will never happen.
The biggest problem was that even if he worked, the Shadowlands is a shit idea. I don't know why all of the heroes don't just sign up with Zovaal when they learn one of their best outcomes is turning into a mindwiped blue janny.
you guys are still going at it?
let go you gays. it's over and done with
But anon dragonflight didn't even end yet
Alliance sissies getting up again.
Come back when you lot actually have a unique bad guy past vanilla.
Lmao.
I just want to go back to fricking killing kobolds and fight the opposing faction, why couldn't the jailor reset the world and RETVRN
Fun Fact: The big bad was clearly supposed to be the Primus but they gave up on that after the horrible initial reaction the story received
>every major character ever: Okay sylvanass you're eyes are blue now, maybe just maybe you can be redeemed
>sylvanass to the glowing dust of arthas not 5 minutes later: YOU IRREDEEMABLE TRASH GET ERASED GET ERASED GET ERASED
Brave.
>Sylvanas #Girlbossing AnimArthas while Uther and Jaina stand there in silence.
I fricking love Shadowlands just for how bad it was.
the weirdest part of all of it was we only ever interacted with good Sylvanas for 2 levels in the War3 RoC campaign and her dialogue is like 7 lines long and mostly exposition about mission objectives but they still expected people to have some emotional attachment to that version of her and not the banshee she had been for 20 years at this point (not that the banshee queen version of her was consistently written or very interesting)
The key difference between Sylvanas and Arthas, is that Arthas chose to become who he became. Sylvanas was initially forced into that life by Arthas.
As much as it pisses off Arthas fans, the devs, even back when working on WC3. Have always considered that Arthas made the wrong choices and couldn't be redeemed.
>Arthas chose to become who he became
erm
no
>the devs, even back when working on WC3. Have always considered that Arthas made the wrong choices and couldn't be redeemed.
Those same devs also said Arthas was wrong for purging stratholme to begin with. Who gives a flying frick what those cuckolds think.
Arthas killed and resurrected Sylvanas as a banshee because he was corrupted and twisted into a pawn by the Lich King but she was always too fricking stupid to acknowledge it. he had his soul stolen by Frostmourne like everyone else and in War3 TFT it is very directly shown that the Lich King was always in control - the finale of the game is Ner'zhul supplanting Arthas and taking over his body after having consumed his soul and used him as a puppet to destroy everything he ever cared about. Wrath just retconned it so Arthas somehow took over instead
The narrative was dumb anyway because the entire reasoning Ner'zhul became the LK was moronic.
It was an idea based on a reference that didn't make sense.
Why would you give a traitor the power of a god and expect him to not betray you? The Nathrazim brothers did an absolute dogshit job at keeping him under wraps (we're ignoring the "intentional" part invented by J'lor lore).
It was done solely because WC 2 Death Knights were not-Naz'ghul made from orc warlock souls being shoved inside human corpses incorrectly, ergo the Lich King being an orc soul in a human body and being the "ultimate Death Knight" is thus complete despite not being related AT FRICKING ALL to the scourge concept of a death knight.
I honestly believe before Afrasabi, or Danuser or anyone touched Shadowlands that the idea was based on the older devs desire to remove the hamfisted concept of Ner'zhul being the Lichking and the legion inventing the scourge from the story. It should have always been another force, especially since the game implies Frostmourne is legendary and the "it just makes you think it's legendary with its psychic powers" was a bad retcon.
demons and necromancy were always linked in the old games because they used a super generic holy/unholy paradigm to magic in the setting, the six cosmic forces garbage came way after demons and undead were linked so it made a real awkward mess to explain how fel magic and death magic were opposed but the Legion readily used it. only the retcon about connecting the death magic and undead stuff entirely to the dreadlords is even more fricking moronic because that means the dreadlords introduced clearly death aligned magic and weapons to the Legion and none of the very clearly intelligent higher demons that make up the leadership of the Legion thought it was suspicious to have an entirely different force-aligned magic being used to make armies as part of their plan to take Azeroth, their MAIN OBJECTIVE for tens of thousands of years. to be honest the lore in Warcraft really only works if every character is a fricking moron who is incapable of thinking of anything that isn't directly in front of them at that very moment
and the six forces cosmic chart isnt even interesting or cool enough to justify bending the lore around it, light and order are the same fricking thing
>light and order are the same thing
i disagree and i think chronicles did a decent job of explaining the difference before it got promptly chucked out of a window by morons with far less interesting ideas
>light and void are the fundamental blocks of tangible reality, but 'life' isn't sustainable in either
>light is absolute stillness, everything in its perfect place
>void is absolute motion, everything is constantly shifting too much to settle into one substance/'thing'
>these collide and create chaos and life/death
>order (titans) is ordered chaos, life still exists and is nudged towards an ideal path but variation within tolerable boundaries is permitted
>chaos is an entropic system in the sense that nothing remains constant long enough to be consistent, life bounces between wild extremes but still certainly exists
>life/death are what they say on the tin
it was a very trite cosmology but one that works well for the purpose it needed to serve
now we have 1001 afterlives, got to see 4, and only 4 matter because those 4 determine who gets to be the next j'lor (but good this time)
I'm not even pointing out the issues the cosmic force chart caused. I'm saying that the Scourge from an aesthetic standpoint feel like they were never intended to be demon slaves
>Architecture design has nothing to do with demons
>Human cult has nothing to do with demons
>played off as something ancient despite something before very new
>The Lich Kings armor doesn't look like anything made for a Nathrazim to wear despite them originally creating it and Frostmorne
Even the whole concept of "Betray the legion and become your own faction" makes it seem like the demon creation concept was tacked on. The only actual bridge between the concepts was the vampire elements of the Nathrazim
Necromancer shit was hardly even tied to demons proper. I think they mention the Nathrazim raising corpses in a knaak book once, otherwise its all scourge. Necromancer lore was even mainly a Arcane mage thing in the oldest lore based on what Scholomance says of it.
>Arthas chose to become who he became.
LOL fricking what?
>Have always considered that Arthas made the wrong choices and couldn't be redeemed.
I'm assuming that's referring to culling of Stratholme. But has the guy the wrote it ever explained what he thought would have been the right choice there?
>But has the guy the wrote it ever explained what he thought would have been the right choice there?
His entire idea was they should have locked down the city, called the best minds in the world together to think of a cure, and go from there. Doesn't matter that the curse of undeath has never and will never be cured, Arthas went to fast and it was wrong 🙁
Did he forget there's a 12 foot tall bat demon with an organized host of undead in the same city? they'd just bust out.
the writers kind of forgot about mal'ganis, the fact arthas only had a token force of soldiers, and that said token force absolutely could not hope to hold back a city-sized flood of undead after they turned into tireless, merciless killing machines
more succinctly, the writers are californian morons (but i repeat myself)
Heres the deranged frick explaining why Arthas is so evil. Some footnotes
>everyone was already gonna die so killing them did nothing
>even if they weren't infected with the tainted grain now a necromancer can come in and rez them as skeletons
>Medivh told Arthas everything was lost and to leave, Arthas not trusting a random ass transforming bird was a skill and moral issue
>ezpz necromancer body farm
meanwhile in classic (ten years later iirc) stratholme was STILL ON FIRE from the culling
so clearly steps were taken to prevent it becoming a scourge corpse farm it's just that the plague of undeath is such bullshit (and this is fine, i'm speaking from an in-universe perspective) that even building a city-scale pyre just means you're making ghosts instead of skeletons and ghouls
his actions (and Salvanas) lead to positive changes in soul distribution procedure
i liked his nipples
>Blizzard make an incredibly well animated cinematic for the end of the 9.1 raid about Sylvanas and how she was secretly good the whole time
>Absolutely despised
>Garrosh gets a bugged cinematic so poorly made it might as well have been made by Garrosh himself where he tells everyone to get fricked and he'll never apologize
>BASED BASED BASED everyone loves it
i don't like garrosh i just hate sylvanas and all her b***h boy fanboys
Garrosh basically ensured that he can never be shit on again. Which actually is pretty based.
females get every cinematic for the last 7 years
well, a woman is the lead writer
golden or whatever her name is
Steve Danuser was the lead writer, Christie Golden only did the books and brought us such gems as
>Sylvanas comitting mass genocide because she was sad about a Lava Worm
>Arthas being a creepy pervert who said he was going to make Sylvanas' beautiful body "dance for him"
>Sylvanas fricking Nathanos on her parents graves
>The entirety of the 8.3 patch and N'zoth's milennia old plan canonically lasting 3 or so hours
Wasn't the 8.3 happened in 3 hours book Shadow's Rising, that was done by Madeleine Roux?
No no, the Sylvanas book covers some of the events of BFA leading into Sneedolands. It details the cinematic where she kills Saurfang and then says "several hours later" Sylvanas was fighting the Lich King to break open the veil to the Shadowlands, meaning that everything from the end of 8.2 (when Saurfang died) to the start of Shadowlands lasted "several hours".
>Sylvanas fricking on her parents grave
How does that work? How does Nathanos get it up? Does she even feel anything in her snatch?
>Arthas being a pervert towards sylvanas
That doesn't actually sound out of character. Arthas canonically fricked Jaina and her big breasts.
>how does nathanos get it up
first of all, moron, they're all wizards, they don't need to explain shit
second of all, how do you get it up?
blood
blood magic exists in the setting as well
so therein is your answer
Nathanos is an archer???
>bugged cinematic so poorly made it might as well have been made by Garrosh himself
IIRC the entire garrosh cutscene was made by one based dev during their lunch breaks because he wasn't even going to get a scene at all
thing is Garrosh's actions were seen as reprehensible so it was something a evil orc did. i don't mean in life either
I don't get why people say Golden ruined Sylvanas.
She gave Sylvanas a canonical ugly bastard fetish.
That means she'd willingly frick half the playerbase
Golden graced us with the Magmaw's Wife meme so she can't be all that bad I suppose.
Day I have a cursory interest on at least keeping up with the shitshow that is retail wows story, where do I get the information about this knife I've never heard of and why is it apparently important to the next expansion?
Xal'atath is the Shadow Priest artefact in Legion. Where most of her backstory and fluff is explained like all artefact weapon backstories during the expansion research stuff. The key difference is that Xal'atath was one of two artefacts that could actually talk, so she had a personality, voice and clear character.
At the end of Legion, the Knife disappears as it's backstory says it always does sooner or later, to show up again in BFA. Where (you) the player character do a questline listening to Knaifu because obviously nothing could go wrong. Long story short, Knaifu manages to help trick you into getting her a body of a High Elf to possess. Before leading you towards an Old God temple under the Shrine of the Storms where N'zoth can see (you) and her. Now that you got tricked into a trap by the Knife, N'zoth rewards her by transferring her soul/essence into the dead Elf body. She then leaves the expansion via a void portal while her previous vessel the Knife both frees N'zoth and later seals him away.
She does nothing for Shadowlands, before coming back in the Mega-Dungeon in Dragonflight, helping Iridikron leave through a void portal to set up their plan for War Within.
It's not that hard to go through her entire story so far, or just find a video covering it online if you cba to read a wiki entry.
Trick you into helping her get a body.*
Sheesh.
Huh I did the megadungion and don't remember seeing an elf there.
There's an outline of a female Blood/High/Void Elf model in the portal Iridikron leaves through. That later got revealed to be at Blizzcon Xal'atath as people were suspecting.
did they reveal why they made the bad dragons look like Ben 10 aliens or why dragons who hate the Titans so much would spend all of their time in humanoid forms like a Titan creation
please understand, it's hard to animate dragons (for some reason) (but they also made an entire playable race of draconic sub-species for the expansion)
Bad Dragons in Dragon form look like that do to some elemental ritual they did in the novel. The Dragons hate the Titans so much because the Titanforged were taking Dragon eggs forcefully to upraise into order and thus they took the Humanoid forms as a way to mock their upraised Titan blessed cousins.
Most of the backstory and reasoning unfortunately is locked behind a book, War of the Scaleborn. But the technical issue is that it's probably harder to fit large dragons in small rooms for cutscenes, so Human forms let them monologue.
Shame there wasn't more Razagath in the game, book at least does a lot better at giving her screen time.
The general assumption is being proto dragons they are too primitive to form "visages" that are perfectly human.
This doesn't explain why they look so weird an alien when they could have just been dragon men.
>Razageth gives her life to free her imprisoned siblings
>Dies knowing that they will continue fighting the children of the titans in her place and her sacrifice wasn't in vain
>Wait
>One of them just fricks off
>One of them goes insane
>One of them joins the children of the titans
>tfw shadow priest main CHAD since vanilla
>literally the GOAT class
>only dropped it in legion cos spriest felt so fricking DOGSHIT to play in that expansion
>apparently missed on some important shit
wew lad
>Who is this Knife
The knife was the Shadow Priest legendary artifact weapon from Legion, Xalatath
She is implied to be an Old God who was gang raped by the other 4 and made into a dagger. Like your typical cursed weapon trope she bounces around into the possession of various characters, giving them power and fricking shit up until she grows bored.
One of her more significant integrations into the lore is she was the dagger of Modgud, the Dark Iron Queen during the War of Three Hammers who infamously cursed Grim Batol with "living shadows".
She was able to do this curse because Xalatath, and Xalatath abandoned her at the end of the war and left her to die.
The dagger would shit talk and lore dump Spriests during Legion leading to a lot of waifuhomosexualry.
In BFA she does some bullshit with N'zoth and possess a high elf twighlight cultist. The dagger left behind is then used by Wrathion to make N'zoth vulnerable.
Now it looks like she's the driving force behind Dragon Megatron's plot in Dragonflight.
>go talk shit to odin, you won't you fricking PUSSY
spriests didn't deserve such a kino artifact weapon
If only Thal'kiel was half as memorable and got as half the fanservice Xal'atath's gotten.
Thal'kiel was hella based but unfortunately he didn't sound frickable.
Could be worse, at least people remember Tha'kiel could talk alongside Xal'atath.
No one remembers that for Aluneth.
I member. Also there were a few times when Arthas spoke to Frost DKs, which was kinda cool. Wonder why he didn't tell us that he was turned into 35 anima by a big bald moron.
I'm pretty sure blizzard even forgot that he was supposed to have originally been a top dawg world leader of the Eredar before Archimonde usurped him.
How come XIV is losing to this........
please... tell me
because XIV has no endgame
>jailer? who the frick is that? hop in, we're going underground to fight nerubians and an agent of the old gods
As much as I wanna, until they officially denounce Shadowlands as a mistake and retcon it, it will always be canon. Why should I care about anything when life and death literally don't matter? Dead people can leave the Shadowlands at will and Troll Conmen and Old Stormwind Grannies can enter whenever they like. Nothing matters, if scrimblo bimblo dies in War Within we can just hop through a portal to Bastion and visit him.
If they deleted shadowlands right now nothing would've changed. The j'lors plan was so irrelevant it changed nothing, well except for sylvanas being stuck in the maw for an expansion
You just know they will bring her back for the dark ranger class shit